Transgender Flipside

October 26, 2011

38 Responses to “Transgender Flipside”

  1. GallusMag Says:

    Gentle comments only.

  2. Some Fella Says:

    That took guts to say all of that.

  3. Bev Jo Says:

    This is hopeful. No matter what she’s done, she’s still a woman. She still looks like a woman. She certainly sounds and acts like a woman. Women who try to change gender are so different from the men. It’s only the word “trans” that they have in common. How many men claiming to be a women have been sexually abused by women? I’m guessing not many, if any. But how many women who no longer want to be women as a protection from sexual assault have been sexually assaulted by males? I’m guessing the vast majority. That makes this even more of a tragedy. As an FTM friend of mine says for why she wanted to be male, “I just didn’t want to be raped any more.”

    I wish her the best.

    Thank you, Gallus.

  4. GallusMag Says:

    I hope she’ll be okay. All the religion stuff makes me worry that she is in the depths of despair. Then again people express their connection with spirit in diverse ways, so who knows.
    She says she is attracted to men for the first time but about 50% of female transgenders who inject synthetic testosterone change their sexual orientation. Whether that is due to the hormones or an orientation fluidity unique to transgenders is unknown. It has never been studied.
    Regardless, her statement “I don’t know of any man who would want to be with someone like me” is really sad, and I think, incorrect. If she wants a hetero partnership I’m sure she can meet a man who will love her as she is.
    At any rate she has tremendous guts and heart, as others have said, in sharing her experience with females who are “questioning” and only have the standard YouTube FTM narrative cliche, which is strictly enforced, as we can already see by the negative rating given to her post.

    So true about the sexual abuse Bev.

    • Kathrin Says:

      @GallusMag:

      “She says she is attracted to men for the first time but about 50% of female transgenders who inject synthetic testosterone change their sexual orientation. Whether that is due to the hormones or an orientation fluidity unique to transgenders is unknown. It has never been studied.”

      I can’t speak for those who identify as FTM, but on the other side, anecdotal evidence seems to be about 1/3 report a shift, and about 1/3 report a flat out change. Part of it seems to be about validation – finding a partner who validates their identity by seeing them as they see themselves. For some people, that is a lot more important than how their partner’s reproductive systems function.

      Historically, it was what the (almost always male) doctors often pushed for. If they wanted anything other than to be the perfect little stepford wife, with a husband and an orifice for him to penetrate, they were turned away. They had to dress the part, too – heels, lipstick, hose – only walking stereotypes need apply. It’s a lot of what led to the stereotyped “trans narrative” – without adopting that story as they own, the gatekeepers wouldn’t give in to their demands. Convince them that to be “really female”, they had to be the subservient property of men, and they learned to want it, or at least pretend to themselves they did.

      As for me, I fell in love with a friend, mind, a soul, an incredible person who understood me on a level I had never thought possible. Dots on a screen, bits moving along a wire to someone thousands of miles away I had never seen, never heard. Someone who I trusted completely without ever meeting, who I would give anything for, even my own life, without hesitation or remorse.

      When we first met, my first thoughts were basically “So, that’s love”, followed shortly by “I guess this means I’m bi. Hmm.”
      Maybe there is something unique about sexuality in trans people – to me, appearance and sex weren’t even a criteria. I wasn’t willing to walk away from the only person I’ve ever loved in the name of sexuality, or a label.

  5. bugbrennan Says:

    That is painful to watch. I hope she gets help.

  6. Rusty Says:

    Has anyone read a pro-trans explanation for why this happens, why people want to de-transition or feel like they made a mistake? If the primary trans position is always “born in the wrong body” I really wonder what they have to say about people who thought they were born in the wrong body and then realized that they weren’t. What do they say is the difference between *feeling* misgendered and actually *being* misgendered? Or would they would go so far as to say the the woman in this video really IS male, that she didn’t make a mistake, in order to uphold the born-that-way argument?

    • Kathrin Says:

      I don’t necessarily subscribe to this thought, but a pro-trans explanation might go something like this:

      She struggled (for whatever reason) with cross-sex feelings. Whether it was a result of upbringing and/or growing up female in a patriarchal society, and/or there is a physiological aspect to it (as there are many psychological disorders), those feelings were there.

      Detransitioning by itself isn’t going to change those feelings (although dedication to something greater than yourself can help). She will likely still feel them, and may very well do so for the rest of her life. Even if she accepts the “female role” (however she chooses to define it), she may or may not actually identify as female herself. Even if she’s female, she’s still “trans” on some level.

      I hope she is able to accept and work through the things that led to the conflict in her to begin with. If she can heal those, by herself, or with others help, she should be able to handle detransitioning. If not, the same pain and heartache are just going to come back one day.

    • Sandra Says:

      The usual explanation for sex change regret is; they were never really truly trans to begin with. I do not necessarily share that view.

      I am trans. But I’m definitely not pro trans discourse, or “narrative”. I don’t consider myself female, I do not want to be female. I don’t consider myself being male either. I have a trans experience, and that is an unique experience in itself. I started living outwardly as a woman about ten years ago, because, people most of the time assumed I was a woman anyway and it made my life easier. It was more a matter of not correcting people anymore, than actively seeking out an identity.

      Don’t believe in humans having innate gender identities.. that I consider a form of twisted modern religious belief of having been born with a gendered soul. Though I am a spiritual person, I’m not a religious one.

  7. Bev Jo Says:

    I think your helping to publicize her story will help others too. I hope so. You do such good work.

    I wonder if there’s a difference with bio-identical hormones. I know they are not supposed to cause the cancer and other problems for women who take them post-menopause. Of course, the amount of testosterone for women is very small, as opposed to what FTMs take to appear male.

    I think you are right about the testosterone having an influence of feeling interested in men. We’re seeing that with longtime users of it. I’d thought it was being in that GBT culture where the FTMs are emulating gay men so much (even picking up extreme queeny mannerisms, which does not add to their desire to look male.) And since the GBT community is so deeply sado-masochistic, the pressure is to always push boundaries, to go “further,” whether it’s into pain, inflicting pain, or being as “male” as possible. I also wonder if it’s because most Lesbians and perhaps other women too, are not very interested in women who identify as male. The FTMs I know or see at events are single. With one music duo/lover pair, the one who identifies as Lesbian sounds quite bitter that her Lesbian lover now identifies as male — this is when she is speaking between songs at their performances.

    To me, this young woman appears Butch, which most FTMs do not. But I agree — I’m sure there could be a man who would be interested in her, perhaps even more so because of what she’s done.

    But yes, it is sad about her religious focus. The last woman I knew who was so desperately saying how jesus was helping her survive, ended up with a major breakdown in a mental hospital. I hope this woman’s spiritual search leads her to true spirituality and comfort. Certainly her strength and courage will help. There needs to be groups all over the world for women like this. I would think a feminist community would give her far more support than one more gay/trans focused.

    • Kathrin Says:

      @Bev Jo:
      “I think you are right about the testosterone having an influence of feeling interested in men. ”

      It would be interesting to see a study done on the long-term effects. I know that Estrogen definitely effects sexual orientation; some people shift, some people change.

      It’s not something that the trans community generally likes to talk about, because it stands contrary to the “born that way” theory of sexual orientation. If it’s a “choice”, then it could be bad, so it’s better to just have “always been that way”, even if it’s not really true. They would rather have a pretty lie than the ugly truth.

    • Chris Says:

      Hello. Transguy here. I am bisexual, but to the outside observer it would appear that my sexuality has shifted since I came out as trans. This is because I suppressed my attraction to men for YEARS, in the same way I suppressed the realization that I was going through female puberty at all. I was actually attracted to boys first: I only started being attracted to women when I hit a point where I could dissociate my feelings towards my body from those of my female classmate’s bodies. Before that moment, I would have told you that breasts were the most disgusting things on the planet. In actually, I just hated how alien MY breasts felt. In a similar vein, I shut down my feelings of attraction towards men because I could not stand the idea of being someone’s girlfriend, even when I imagined myself as taking the “masculine” roll in a relationship with an effeminate man or femme woman. It came down to the body: I hated the juxtaposition of my height against his, my high voice against his low, the way my hips would curve out while his made straight lines. Being with men just made me too aware of the femaleness of my body.

  8. deena17 Says:

    Sad. I watched it all the way through. I kept wondering how the hat and unshaven face tied in with her message that she has now embraced her father God and returned to being a woman. It seemed in-congruent but I suppose she has her reasons. I hope she has a bright and beautiful future.

  9. dyksfunctional Says:

    I am going to “attempt” being gentle here.

    It’s not “natural” for me… perhaps there will be a genetic/brain wave/doohickey to explain it all later for me. I could have Aspergers for all I self diagnosed know??

    Brava for her bravery in coming out as a de-tg.
    Good FOR her.

    But her so enthusiastic LOVE of gawd and smexxxy men???
    She is recycling…
    One cult for another cult.

    I wish her ALL the best. But pulling the needle out doesn’t mean you are not still an addict.

  10. Barbara Di Bari Visconti Says:

    Is anyone else wondering why she’s topless in the video or is it just me?

    • GallusMag Says:

      “Going shirtless” is one of the conventions of F2T YouTube videos. And the act of being topless without being sexualized and subjected to the male gaze is one of the prime reasons that young women, even those who do not “identify” as male, are getting elective double mastectomies. In fact if you enter FTM + shirtless in the youTube search many vids will come up that promote and celebrate the joys and freedom of breast removal. The goal is being able to have the freedom to take off one’s shirt WITHOUT being subjected to the oppressive exploitative sexualized male gaze.
      Since that is a basic freedom denied those born female in this culture, these young women are taking matters into their own hands and cutting off the parts of their chests that are arbitrarily deemed obscene in this culture.

  11. Kathrin Says:

    I hope she finds the peace she is looking for. I truly do.

    It seems she found something bigger than herself, and that can be a source of strength. For some, it’s love. For others, it’s family, duty, honor, commonalities, or country. It can change a heart, desires, actions. She seems to have found it in religious belief.

    I worry, though, that her chosen path seems to be like many of the so-called “ex-gay” individuals, many of whom admit that their orientation didn’t change so much as their actions. They trade the guilt and shame of feeling sinful in their actions, to taking pride in fighting for what they feel is right. But it’s still a fight, and fighting still takes it’s toll over time.

    I once tried to lose myself in the mormon religion. I wanted to be a missionary, to share it with others. It felt good, and just, and true. I could be healed; I could be whole. But when I peered behind the curtain, it was no wizard that greeted me. Platitudes, no matter how well meaning, brought no true, lasting peace. And however “good” mormon women make things for mormon men (at tremendous cost to their lives, their futures, their education, and careers), I couldn’t do that to someone who wanted a “good”, “mormon”, “man”. That wasn’t me.

    May she find what she’s looking for, and her path bring more to her than it did me. I wish her the best in finding her soulmate, whomever it may be.

    Thank you, GallusMag, for sharing this video.


  12. I found a website which supports regretters.
    http://waltheyer.typepad.com/


    • Perhaps you should delete my first comment because one the one side this guy has many good points about unecessary surgery and hormone treatment on the other side I’ve just seen that he is anti homosexual. Too bad. Some of the things he wrote are worth reading.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Yes Walt went from being a gender fundamentalist to being a Christian fundamentalist. Plus his self-published book has the creepiest graphic ever!
        Don't go in the basement!
        In the future someone will probably use this image/character as the murderous villain in an underground horror movie.

        He has a few good links on his site tho.

      • Sandra Says:

        No, he has practically no good points at all. Walt Heyer is a prick trying to monetize on his inability owning up to his own mistakes. He does this by repeatedly misrepresenting the actual research, or failure to provide the necessary context in which the research should be viewed. Or absurd attempts at linking researchers (he otherwise can not discredit) to pedophilia.. much like other assholes attempt to link homosexuality with pedophilia. I am all for critical thought on trans discourse. But Walt provide none of that.

    • GallusMag Says:

      @Sandra-

      Prick , asshole, etc. That’s your idea of critical thought? Seems like a really harsh response to a guy who was permanently disabled by psychiatric and medical providers who said they could help him. Frankly, your comment sounds cruel and unkind.
      And as amusing (?) as it is to watch two people with identical belief systems cuss each other out I have to say you are (both Genderists) missing the point.
      The problem with Heyer is that he is still a Genderist. The only difference between a transgenderist and a homogenderist is “the plan”. Both subscribe to the same political philosophy, based on the supernatural belief that certain unrelated traits are caused by an individual’s physical reproductive sex. A trans-Genderist believes that certain traits are sex based and that one’s body should be changed to approximate the sex that such traits are innately tied to. A homogenderist believes that one should conform one’s traits to one’s physical sex. Transgenderism and homogenderism are two sides of the same genderist coin. Heyer is still suffering from Genderism, which is why he can change from conforming his body to his traits, to conforming his traits to his body. The reason this is never successful or satisfying is that Genderism itself is a fictional, dysfunctional belief.
      As a transgenderist Heyer believed he had to “change his sex” to express certain traits. Because to express those traits as a male was immoral to him, or too socially taboo for him to deal with or comprehend. As a homogenderist he still believes that certain traits align with reproductive sex, but now “the plan” is to restrict the traits. Males should have short hair and not wear awesome pretty purple gowns, and females should be submissive and not stand erect with fixed eye contact and rebuild an engine in dirty utilitarian clothes. Same genderism. Different solution.
      The reality, as history will show, is that Genderism itself is a faulty belief. Males have traits that are considered “feminine” and females have “masculine” traits and it’s all quite natural and normal. It doesn’t mean some sort of imbalance. The Genderist Belief is the imbalance, not the traits or the sex. Nothing ever needs to “be corrected” because nothing is wrong.
      The only reason dominance behaviors/masculinity are “wrong” for females and submissive behaviors/femininity are “wrong” for males is that society is operating under a sex hierarchy designed to keep males dominant and females submissive.
      The reason this has developed is because without such a system males would have no stake in lineage and reproduction. Let’s face it, men are expendable. That’s why we send them off to war. It’s nothing personal. It’s just that they can not bear children and feed children. They’re only sperm donors and maybe “help-mates” (although females can do the helpmating for themselves). So really males are only sperm donors. Humanity is biologically Matriarchal. So dudes have to fuck that shit up as best they can, when they can, in between killing each other off in wars over who gets to be potential sperm donors. Seriously dudes, that’s all you’ve got. So the dudes use their violence and rape just like monkeys trying to beat other males back and find a female to give meaning to their expendable existence. It’s sad, but it’s just Mother Nature. Lol. OK I got off point about Genderism but you get it.

      • iamnotanumber06 Says:

        So women are just mobile wombs.
        Where have I heard that before?

      • GallusMag Says:

        The inability of males to reproduce is the entire foundation of patriarchy. It’s the reason men try to control women, like livestock. If this is “news” to you, I’d like to welcome you to feminism. Here’s your toaster.
        toaster

  13. smash Says:

    Thank you so much for sharing this. I wish her much happiness, and I appreciate this courageous video. I’m sad that she chose a path that was so destructive for her life, but I believe she will find happiness in the future- whether with men, god, or maybe just herself.

  14. The Masked Lily Says:

    This is exactly why I oppose the trans cult. Women are suffering so some men can live out their fetishes.

    My heart goes out to her and to everyone harmed by this movement. I wish her healing and happiness. And I hope that F2T women realize that radical feminists do not hate them.

    • fabflowers Says:

      thanks to you all for sharing with me and accepting me when i found my way back from twanz-land. i’m only saddened for the woman in the video that she made the mistake of trans-sexing with hormones before it was too late. i’m so glad i sought out radical feminism when i realized what i was doing was wrong. i knew other women and rad fems did not hate me or trans people in general and that there were reasons behind women not accepting the trans ideology because i had my own misgivings about it.

      deep down in my soul i knew what i was doing was wrong and like most women who try to change their gender, it was only to avoid more hurt by males and join them in privileges. find me *ONE* M2T who actually transitions to become just a normal, average, un-sexy woman. none of them do because it’s all fake and it’s all about the male sexualization of the female body. one of the biggest offenses that M2T commits against women is fooling them into believing they were heterosexual males AT ALL before transition and some women have been fortunate enough to have their marriages anulled rather than divorce because they were not in a position to agree to marriage with an autogynephile when they met their partners (because, surprise surprise… the lying assholes don’t tell them of course). i have a link to one such successful case in the Irish Times, but i will not post it unless Gallus Mag gives me permission to do so.

      autogynephiles are NOT heterosexual males. they are men who have sex with women, all the while fantasizing that the roles are reversed. imagining that you and your partner are switching sex/gender roles in bed is not any kind of orientation. it’s just a sex fantasy. that’s it. absolutely NOTHING to do with gender whatsoever. i believe this is why M2T find it so easy to embrace a gay or bi orientation eventually because they know they really are still men, but the fantasy works so long as they have lippy and dressy and heels on aye? sets them apart from the gays dunnit? really, no?

      unfortunately, these men hurt very real women not just by their appropriation of women’s bodies and in effect, humiliating ALL women of any orientation, but many of them ARE in heterosexual marriages or unions where the woman is left behind in a sea of hurt, shame and denied sexual identity, thanks to her idiot husband’s trans fantasy and selfish and cruel deviancy. and yes it IS deviant to get off on yourself at the expense of and to the detriment of interpersonal relationships. although there are not many around yet (probably due to immense hurt and shame), i have discovered a few broken het women’s stories online and every single one of them suffered through their partners’ delusion destroying their union. just like F2T are wreaking havoc in lesbian unions, so are M2T doing this in their formerly hetero unions. some partners of trans have even stated that they would have preferred it had their partner cheated on them! for a person to wish something this bad as a replacement for the hurt of trans destruction, that’s saying a lot. both F2T and M2T are hateful variations of patriarchal dominance over all women.

      transsexualism IS a cult. i will tell this to anyone who will listen because i am an ex-member though no one would know this just by looking at me. i refuse to accept and keep the trans identity and i find it offensive that other trans in their madness cannot simply accept that there is no such thing as being transsexual. it’s a myth. a fantasy. a woo-belief. i do NOT struggle anymore with my identity at all. i have issues as a woman in patriarchy, sure, but i was not and never will be a man and i find it insulting that some trans would claim that i am still trans only to validate themselves and their delusions.

      again i am much more fortunate than this poor woman in the yt vid having not made it as far as going on testosterone, but i wasted a year of my life hurting everyone around me with my delusions. i believe that because i’m human, female and not a selfish, idiot male i could not continue to hurt my family and friends this way and it caused me pain and major cognitive dissonance to see them hurting so much. this helped to wake me up soon enough to stop what i was doing. only selfish, entitled males think like this, and don’t they realize something else here? look outside the *ego* or the *I-dentity* and you will find that your very life is not your own. you also belong to the people you love in the world. transsexuality is a crime against those people.

      • Kathrin Says:

        @fabflowers:

        I sometimes have a hard time knowing if something is rhetorical, so you have my sincere apologies if that was the case and I misunderstood.

        If I could respectfully take a minute to respond, I would ask the opportunity to do so. If this strays too far from the topic, GallusMag, I am sorry – let me know, and I will work not to make that mistake in the future.

        Fabflowers, the fetishization of women’s bodies was one of the big things that started me away from the “trans cult”, as it were. I haven’t made the choice yet to completely walk away, because of the collateral damage it would cause, but in many ways I get closer every day.

        You asked for one person who transitioned to be a “normal, average, un-sexy woman”.

        I won’t claim to be average – my mother gave my siblings and I the gift of intelligence, and gave selflessly of herself so that we could have the training and opportunity to put it to good use. To deny that gift would be to make light of her sacrifice, and that’s not something I’m willing to do. I will not choose to play the “female card” just so I can be exceptional (like certain athletes); if I wouldn’t be seen as exceptional when perceived as a man, I have no desire to be when I’m not. I am, however, quite plain and average in appearance.

        Before I started going down this path, I had a relatively simple appearance and routine. My hair was brushed enough to be relatively tidy, but “product” is what they used at hair salons. Depending on the temperature, I wore shorts or jeans, and I would finish it up with a t-shirt. During transition, there was a lot of pressure to be “feminine”, to meet the stereotypes, to “glam it up”. I refused to do it.

        These days, I pretty much never wear makeup. I literally can’t remember the last date I did, but I do remember it was to conceal a blemish. I own a pair of white tennis shoes, and a pair of black tennis shoes – that’s it. I still wear t-shirts and shorts, except when required by business. I own the same kind of business casual shirts I wore before, except now the buttons are on the other side and (annoyingly) less likely to have pockets. My hair is neatly brushed into a ponytail – it takes a few extra minutes, but there is a little more hair these days.

        I can’t speak to the whole “sexual orientation” concept – I’ve loved one person during the course of my whole life, and we dated (and married) after transition. I refused to date anyone with issues that large “in the closet” as it were. Ironically, in some ways I’m in the same position as the closet autogynephiles – the difference is I can’t bear to cause the heartbreak and devastation that transition would bring to the one I love. Transition was a selfish decision made in desperation, and it left pain and anguish in it’s wake. I will not make that mistake again.

        Maybe I’m the only one out there who feels this way – perhaps the whole “trans umbrella” is narcissistic, fetishistic and/or woman-hating. I like to hope not, but sometimes it’s really hard to tell.

  15. Jack Says:

    Remember: The Bible says: there are 3 types of people that do Not have sex… 1.) they are born that way 2.) Man made them that way 3). They renounce it for the Kingdom of God.

    When we make decisions based on Hate, or on Fear – They are more than not the wrong decisions. But who i am, that remains.

    I will say I am very proud of you – this is much better approach to be honest – to not put down others because you angrey with own self and your own decisions. So bravo for that. It wasnt easy i’m sure – not after all the mean crap that’s been spilt over.

    Buy listen – I agree that if we Do Not Seek God – Our Lives are worthless. That the reason “I” believe many trans FTM are sexually drawn to men and do have sexual relations with them is b/c the testosterone makes our sex-drive go higher than ever.. and considering how horny most of us were before, it’s just crazy now.. and i know now there’s this ‘empty-feeling’ inside of me when i get really turned on – that sexually i think it’d feel good to have intercourse – to be blunt. – PLUS: how much easier is it to get a Man to come over for sex, than it is to get a woman to drop everything and be at your house – naked – in 10 minutes.
    Right? of course.

    But with all of that going on at the same time, it’s easy to forget the BIGGER Question. Not what will Feel-Good – You can turn off the lights and anybody’s hand (or mouth) will feel just as good as another.

    But The uestion I always ask is this: WHO DO YOU LOVE?
    In YOUR LIFE.. WHO was or IS the Love of Your Life? If it’s ‘Monica’, you’re heart is drawn to females – if it’s Brad – it’s men.

    Now you can’t go by ONE experience – This is an evolution – at this time in your Life – and in many of ours who claim Trans-Genderism – We are evolving in our search to find THE Truth of Truths… About ourselves – about where we ‘fit’ in the world and with other people – and The Meaning of Life it’s self. i.e. GOD. finding God and God’s will for us – then doing it.

    The one True Evilness of the Trans-gender “issue” is the way Most of us turn inward, becoming more and more self-involved, self-centered, Self-Importance and self-desires over coming any and all Other desires… like Serving-Others.. Helping-Others.. Finding and LISTENING TO Other People and Their Crosses that THEY carry.

    it is then – and only then – that we can finally step-out of our self-infused bubble of me, me, me – and exit the prison we made brick by brick and enter the world of others – and through helping them get a glimpse of God Himself, and where we should go from there – or here.

    and I do not know your name, or where you live, nor do I even have a desire for Relationships at this time, so I’m not ‘hitting’ on you. Really I’m not.
    But I could use a friend. Another person who we might not be carbon-copies of each other. That’d be near impossible.
    But sounds like we could be friends, if you have room for one more, I hope you’ll let me know.

    I live In the Catskills of New York, South of Albany… early 40′s and plan on living my life according to God’s plan.

    Peace be with everyone.
    and yes, Follow the Truth, Seek it out in Everything and if we indeed are lost, we’ll find our way back by following that simple fact.

    I look forward to hearing from you.
    I hope you’ll write.
    - Jack

  16. fuckequality Says:

    Very sad. Want to tell that sister that she will always be a woman, no matter what people see and what has been done to her. We believe that more than any other group. We need to recruit her from the clutches of Christianity!

    I get why she’s turning to god though. The lost comes first, not the found. She is really lost and traumatised and she’s finding comfort in god because god represents complete understanding, compassion and love. That is a very powerful thing. What she hasn’t leapt to yet is that god is herself and that she has everything she needs already to figure things out and break down the walls of bullshit, unreality, trauma and brainwashing.

    Interesting that she mentioned youtube as a source for her trans-findings. I have watched countless transitioning video blogs and I saw how all these young F2T women were trying to cultivate the same look, the same personality. And they watch each others vlogs and are all the more encouraged. Like any other kind of fanaticism, but so much more dangerous.

    I think the orientation shift in trans may be the fetishising of the body they’re trying to cultivate. They want so badly to look like men that they see men as objects of desire. They want to be them. They love their bodies. It’s never “I’m attracted to a guy” it’s “I’m attracted to guys.” I don’t know. No personal experience, but it’s not a completely absurd suggestion.

  17. Bev Jo Says:

    Fuckequality, I think you are absolutely right. It’s the idea of men, what they personify. And maybe part of it is that if she is a het women, or at least says she wants to be one, she is less of a “freak” and more “normal.” It was very important for her to make that statement on the video. It tempers the rest of it. And believing in god is very “normal” too. I have only ever been attracted to other girls, and then women. But I don’t say it like that — I mean, I am only rarely attracted to a particular Lesbian, and it is about that individual.

    It would help if these women would find each other and have consciousness-raising small groups like the early days of Radical Feminism. That disappeared into therapy and being isolated, but what a wonderful feeling to be with other women who know just what you are talking about and so can support you.

  18. Feuerwerferin Says:

    “We need to recruit her from the clutches of Christianity!”

    Totally! And from Patriarchy, too!
    She does not question gender. She didn’t want to be a woman for understandable reasons but obviously noone can change sexes. That she understands now. That is why she seems to wrongly assume that she has to deal with the female sex role. She does not talk about being true to herself (e.g. being a woman who does mechanics, boxing and does not wear dresses – you name it). She just believes that she has to be a woman. And except for (radical) feminists everyone believes that sex roles are real. So does she (that is why she treid to change sexes in the first place, right?). I’m rather worried from listening to her. Her message is dangerous, too. Well, at least she no longer destroyes her body, I guess?

  19. Bev Jo Says:

    Does any woman in this female-hating patriarchy feel comfortable in her body? Stevie Nicks had breast implants since it was expected of her and to further her career. When she had terrible health damage as a result, she was public about having them removed. (Have you all seen what the vinyl and silicon look like as they deteriorate in women’s bodies? Some even have polyurethane foam on the outside of them that just dissolves.) Then Amy Winehouse had breast implants that she also had pain from. How much of her alcohol and drug use was affected by dealing with the pain, and other effects of such a toxic substance in her body? Now, a famous Lesbian comedian is public about her double mastectomy from cancer, and is wearing an “expander” in preparation for toxic breast implants.

    Is it any wonder that women feel conflicted about such an objectified and hated and abused part of their body?

  20. SheilaG Says:

    Loved your comment Bev about about radical feminism disappearing into therapy. Jan Raymond called it “therapism.”


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