“The Cotton Ceiling”

March 25, 2012

104 Responses to ““The Cotton Ceiling””

  1. Thursday's Child Says:

    Yay for cotton ceilings! May they live forever !!

  2. Thursday's Child Says:

    Yay for the cotton ceiling! May it live forever !!

  3. RoseVerbena Says:

    LMAO – GM you need to snap up that URL fast!!! ;0)

  4. Bev Jo Says:

    Great work, Gallus! You really convey how creepy this whole con is!

  5. Darcie Says:

    the Cotton Ceiling is the new black, so chic, too bad outwear won’t print these up. Imagine a pair of these panties and a nice red tank top, strollin down Lois Lane, 2012.

  6. Lily Says:

    thecottonceiling.tumblr.com

  7. Lily Says:

    okay, only a few hours in to my new tumblr and I’ve been reblogged by someone who said:

    “spaesbawlzthetumblargh: see it’s funny because you’re so ridiculously stupid and wrong. hi, i am a lesbian and i like dick. back to first wave feminism with you, you cissexist, racist piece of shit.”

    so apparently the definition of lesbian is completely lost on these pomo lunatics

    also, they accused me of being racist simply for being a radfem. they can’t argue their points, but they’ll smear you as much as they can.

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      The speak that way to real women because:

      1) They’re burning up with jealousy to the core of the beings;

      2) They’re insane (hello?); and

      3) They HATE with a madman’s spittle-spewing rage anyone who dares to hold up a mirror to their delusional misogyny, especially a real woman who holds up a mirror to their delusional misogyny.

      I’m not bragging or anything (LOL) but usually it takes them about six seconds to start flinging death threats at me. I just bring out their “best”.

    • ibleedpurple Says:

      back to first wave feminism with you, you cissexist, racist piece of shit.

      I will gladly go back to 1st wave feminism when otherwise I have to deal with delusional, ideological individuals who call me racist and sexist for objecting to impossibilities like “i’m a lesbian and i like dick”. Sure, you are a lesbian and like dick and I’m a gay man with a penis-vagina.

    • Elin Says:

      Haha, I love the totally random “racist”.


    • ““spaesbawlzthetumblargh: see it’s funny because you’re so ridiculously stupid and wrong. hi, i am a lesbian and i like dick. back to first wave feminism with you, you cissexist, racist piece of shit.””

      Haha, welcome to tumblr. It’s a pretty strange place. =\

      “they can’t argue their points, but they’ll smear you as much as they can.”

      That’s exactly it, and if they can’t smear you, then they’ll just hate-mail, death+rape threat you out of the internet.

  8. ethicalequinox Says:

    So when are post-op MtT going to try to convince straight non-trans men to worship their oh-so-real-and-female manginas? Hell, they don’t even need to post-op! What am I thinking? Penises can be female now! Let’s go see if we can get Hugh Hefner et al. to start giving MtT their god-given right to pose in Playboy!

    In other words, why oh why are these MtT not calling out the TRANSMISOGYNY of other males? Hmm? ‘Cause they’re logically inconsistent cowards, perhaps?

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      They aren’t going to start a war on men any time soon because they know heterosexual men will hurt them very, very badly if they do. These dudes know all about male rage, what with being dudes themselves and all.

      LOL on the Playboy reference. I would LOVE IT if they’d start a campaign to force Playboy to let one of their buddies (an intact male, please) do a full-frontal spread in all his gussied up “womanly” glory. Let’s see them try to convince Playboy’s heterosexual male audience that a penis is not just female, it’s “really a four-inch clit” and those testicles are “really external ovaries”.

      Ha.

      • ethicalequinox Says:

        This is where they really show their true colors, I believe. MtT see women as ultimately being safer targets for their little crusades – men know just how badly these unsuspecting women love getting pats on the head for being “nice” and “helpful”, especially to seemingly “vulnerable” men. It’s a pretty damn manipulative psychology they have. But not everyone falls for the crocodile tears and mascara, thank god.

  9. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Love you Gallus. This is all over Lesbian Caucus and several Lesbian groups of consciousness on Facebook. This has really PISSED Dykes off, and I think for many, is the last straw…they’re seeing MTF’s for what they really are now, sexual coopters, invaders and disrespectful of Dykes…and Lesbians are uniting! Well, except the transapologists, maybe…..manginas, oh, I thought that’s what they called ‘em for the FTM’s……who still retain their vagina…..well, either way…..just give me a Wbw Dyke who still loves her womonhood/Femaleness….no past, present or future males, now or ever!
    -FeistyAmazon

  10. FeistyAmazon Says:

    I REALLY LIKE the first saying: The Cotton Ceiling: Preventing Males from ‘Curing Lesbians’ since forever!

    The second one is pretty good too.

  11. RoseVerbena Says:

    Things that some XY male-bodied “trans women” will assert is “worse than rape”:

    1) Calling him “him”;
    2) Calling his penis a “penis”;
    3) Telling him that he is not now and never will be a lesbian;
    4) Saying that a penis is a male sex organ;
    5) Pointing out to him that lesbians don’t want to have sex with him and his male sex organ because…um…hello? Lesbians? Get it?;
    6) Telling him that he is not welcome in communal spaces or places designated for lesbians because…he’s not a lesbian;
    7) Telling him that his surgically constructed tube is not now and never will be a “vagina” nor will his penis ever be a “clit”;
    8) Letting him know that lesbians are sick to death of being called transphobes and bigots for wanting an actual, real woman as a sexual/emotional partner — not a pretendbian.

    To these “trans women”, the real rape that happens to real women every six minutes or so in America pales by comparison — more proof that “trans women” will never, ever be women.

  12. GallusMag Says:

    Here’s Savannah Garmon (at start of video), one of the primary male pretendbian organizers of No More Apologies/Cotton Ceiling, and also the dude that wrote this:

    http://leftytgirl.wordpress.com/2012/03/25/cathy-brennan-vs-the-cotton-ceiling/

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Notice that he is expecting that ?woman? to hold his notes aloft for him, instead of folding or rolling the sheet at the podium and holding it for himself?

      It seems to me to be an object lesson in how he expects to just be…served.

  13. GallusMag Says:

    Here’s organizer Morgan M Page, who runs the male-only pretendbian workshop ““Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling: Breaking Down Sexual Barriers for Queer Trans Women”

    He’s super boring. Skip ahead to 04:45 if you want to hear about his motivation for doing these conferences.

    • jen Says:

      He’s got the same irritating combo of vocal fry and upturning the end of sentences that that Jade person does. Do they all speak this way? He’s got the same droning, unfocused style, self-obsession and exhibitionism that I see in all these videos. They seem to think just being “different” makes them fascinating rebels and artists, and all they have to do is switch on a webcam and ramble.

      Put it in your journal, honey. Your every little thought just isn’t that interesting.

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      First of all: “…front hole or whatever you want to call it…”

      Eww.

      Second of all: I can’t imagine being this narcissistically obsessed with idiotic crap and still functioning in the real world: “…blah…blah…blah…I’ve decided that I’m “futch”, a femme who pretends to be butch…blah…blah…blah…”

      Yikes.

      I know 3-year-olds who seem more grounded in practical reality than this dude. This video is like watching a 20-something guy meander along prattling about his My Little Pony and his Pokeman like they’re real people.

      • jen Says:

        The other thing I notice is that these guys all seem to have jobs at “queer” nonprofits. Must be nice to yap on YouTube right from your cube.

  14. luckynkl Says:

    Whatever happened to when we were just called good old-fashioned “man-haters?” “Transphobia” is the new word for saying the same thing. Where females are called bigots and haters for not masochistically submitting to male sadism and what amounts to compulsive heterosexuality and rape. Talk about a classic patriarchal reversal!

    As far as I’m concerned, males are walking viruses and death on two legs. Penises are diseased and carry deadly STDs and viruses such as HIV and HPV. There are no cases of lesbians sexually transmitting HIV. Penises also carry sperm which can impregnate females, which puts female lives 9 x more at risk and can be fatal. Not to mention, takes 2 years off her life and can cause job loss, a substantial decrease in living standards and life style and makes her a slave and ward of the state – where abortion is often illegal and she can be tried for murder for miscarrying. Part of the benefit of being lesbian is never having to worry about these things.

    Is TGism just another slick device males use to gain sexual access to females? Especially lesbians? You bet it is. To quote Andrea Dworkin:

    “If we’re not willing to look at intercourse as a political institution, that is directly related to the ways in which we are socialized to accept our inferior status, and one of the ways in which we are controlled, we are not ever going to get to the roots of the ways in which male dominance works, in our lives. The fact of the matter is that the basic premise about women is that we are born to be fucked. That is it.

    Now that means a lot of things. For a lot of years it meant that marriage was outright ownership of a woman’s body and intercourse was a right of marriage. That meant that intercourse was, per se, an act of force. Because the power of the state mandated that the woman accept intercourse. She belonged to the man. The cultural remnants of this is that in our society, men experience intercourse as possession of women. The culture talks about intercourse as conquering women. Women surrendering. Women being taken. We are looking at a paradigm for rape. Not at a paradigm for reciprocity, for equality, for mutuality or for freedom. When the premise is that women exist on earth, in order to be sexually available to men for intercourse, it means that our very bodies are seen as having boundaries that have less integrity than male bodies. Men have orifices. Men can be penetrated. The point of homophobia is to direct men towards women. To punish men for not using women. And that’s an acknowledgment of how aggressive and how dangerous men know male sexuality can be for women. When a woman goes into court and she says I’ve been raped, the judge, the defense lawyer, the press, and many, many, many other people say: no, you had intercourse. And she says no, I was raped. And they say a little bit of force is fine. You know that, you know it’s still true. It hasn’t changed. When you look at male domination as a social system, what you see is that it is organized to make certain that women are sexually available for men. That is its basic premise. And we have a choice. And the choice is not in the political science books. The universities are not trying to work out this level of choice for us. The question is what comes first, men’s need to get laid or women’s dignity. And I am telling you that you cannot separate the so-called abuses of women from the so-called normal uses of women. The history of women in the world as sexual chattel, makes it impossible to do that.”

  15. GallusMag Says:

    “Glaring missing part…” Jade Pichette, organizer of the April Ottawa “Cotton Ceiling” seminar:


    • “Trans women are not men”

      To bad they are. He can’t even get human biology right. But that’s transland. There is no such thing as reality, human biology and so on. It’s like 700 years ago – the earth is the centre of the universe and everyone who disagrees has to be punished. To bad reality doesn’t care about your lies and fantasy Jade Pichette. To bad biology shows that you are just an uneducated homophobic wannabe woman.

      • RoseVerbena Says:

        That’s why I say give me a drag queen or tranny from the ’70’s any day of the week over these goons. He can call his penis a cock, he knows he has a male body and you can use male pronouns without him fainting or threatening you with death, he doesn’t try to hit on lesbians or call them “racist” (?!?) for not wanting to give him a blow job. The worst he’s going to do to you is borrow your clothes and get make-up on them or nag you about wearing mascara because, “I’d kill to have your eye lashes.”

        I can cope just fine with drag queens. These “trans women” are an endless, overlapping warren of the worst kind of crazy: the predatory, woman-hating, delusional kind.

    • Witch Says:

      I just talked about it on Tumblr.

      Transpeople think being female is oppressive by nature and by definition. They think of women as inherently oppressive because we can get pregnant, we menstruate, we have real breasts, vaginas, and our very existence excludes them from the label of “women” because WE are women.

      So they think of us as unworthy of defense because we’re all “cissies”. Die Cis Scum, y’know? Like we’re white people crying about white oppression. It’s like our oppression is less bad because we’re CISSIES!1! So we’re thrown in the same bag as males, because we’re CIS!1! and males are also CIS!1! so we can’t be oppressed because everyone is CIS!1! and we plan horrendous things to do to poor, poor transpeople. Ignoring, of course, women as a sex class, women as being raped everyday, everytime, everywhere, poor women, fat women, PoC women, Lesbian women, any combination of those before, because just by having vaginas and not calling ourselves men makes our social position better than someone with a penis, that was socialized like a male, that calls himself a woman.

      it’s really fucked up anyway. Trans are now the center of the attention, the poor kid everyone needs to pat and take pity because they’re SO oppressed.

  16. Lily Says:

    I forgot to say how much I love that graphic, Gallus.. can I get it on a t-shirt? haha :(

    god these men are creepy.

  17. BadDyke Says:

    Seem to think that if you STATE things enough, it will make it so. So, we can make meetings free of transphobia/homophobia/whatthefuckphobia by just not letting people TALK about it. Which completely misses the point about internalised WTFphobias.

    Very telling that they FORGOT plain ole sexism in their nice little list of things not allowed, probably because any feminist who hasn’t been brain-washed would call them out on sexism as soon as they saw their lovely posters. Rapey shite is SEXISM, O dear, failed before you’d even convened the meeting.

    Pay lip-service to these things, but not really prepared to go the whole hog and let things be discussed properly (i.e. IS refusing to sleep with someone with male sex organs REALLY transphobic) because otherwise their whole edifice would collapse, and be shown to be based on the same ole male sexism and sex-pos version of feminism, and male entitlement that we are all too familiar with.

    I suppose even just — can transwomen still be sexist (due to their unfortunate upbringing as males) would be rejected as a topic of discussion, because points out yet again how they differ from WBW. And yes, I’d happily discuss can dykes still be homophobic, because we’re not afraid of discussing internalised homophobia, we all know that it sits there eating away at us unless we get it out into the open and challenge it.

    • fmnst Says:

      I agree, Bad, this is another form of censorship, the whole construction of this workshop. Their house of cards–the one in their own minds, and in the trans community’s rhetoric–if the workshop conversation were open.

  18. SheilaG Says:

    The boredom over these self centered idiots never ceases to amaze me…blah blah blah blah blah me me me trans trans trans…. hey parrots are more interesting to converse with than this idiot!

  19. GallusMag Says:

    “It’s all about addressing inequity in the bedroom. And the way in which our community spaces can so much be sexual spaces, yet trans women’s inclusion only comes up to the bedroom’s door.”
    – Tobi Hill Meyer on “Breaking Through the Cotton Ceiling”

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Personally, I don’t want a “trans woman” within 100 yards of my bedroom door.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Definition of INEQUITY

      1
      : injustice, unfairness
      2
      : an instance of injustice or unfairness

      “Injustice in the Lesbian bedroom!!!! Injustice against the peen!!”

    • fmnst Says:

      Hey Toby, lesbians have been addressing inequality in the bedroom since forever…by keeping men out (to the best of their abilities.) Especially rapist men like you, with their extreme sense of entitlement to women.

  20. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you so much for all of this Gallus Mag! No matter how nauseatingly disgusting these men are, they always become even worse! “Futch?” Well, it’s all here, for those who want to see how “womanly” they are. They could not be further away from being women.

    Any woman tempted to support them should come here. I keep spreading the word!

  21. fmnst Says:

    Damn, I’m too busy with work lately to be on here and read all of this.

    Are folks for or against PPHOOd putting this on?

    Makes me sick PPHOOD is falling for trannie crap.

    I/we need a brochure!!–a general one about why not to go along with all the trannie crap–for the uninitiated straights/lesbians.

    In the meantime, I am going to start calling them M2Ms and F2Fs, because that’s what they really are. I hope others will do so as well.

    I miss you all and hope to be back on here in a week or two.

  22. Lily Says:

    Why don’t they just rename this conference The Almighty Dick? that’s all it’s about. how best to get lesbians to submit to the almighty dick of patriarchy.

    there are so many het and bi women worshipping theirs already, they can’t stand the thought of any women being exempt from it.

    i bet het radfems get them even more angry. imagine that, a straight woman not wanting their dick.

    I am so squicked out by this.

    and extremely insulted that funfems will pander to dickheads like morgan m page but throw their elders (ie first wave feminists) under the bus in an instant. I’m pretty young myself and I think people my age should at LEAST know better than to disown their foremothers. but patriarchy has women at odds with all other women I suppose..

  23. BadDyke Says:

    Just found this comment on a site linked to by cathy Brennan:

    “they have a mindset that rejects ‘intangible’ things like gender identity and sexual orientation – for them, everything reduces to either physical verifiability or phenomena that are subject to social explanations (and therefore ‘verifiable’ according to ‘scientific’ criteria). The radfems are far from alone in embracing this particular fallacy.”

    So, we reject magical thinking. I think that’s a GOOD thing! Plus I don’t need my sexual orientation to be in-born or genetically-determined in order to defend my right to love women, or to argue that it is moral to do so.

    But ironic that on other sites, it’s the supposed ‘scientific validation’ of the brain-sex theory of trans that is touted as support for their contention that they really are women…………….

    So not just having their cake and eating it too, but coming into our spaces, stealing our cake, then telling us that we’ve baked it incorrectly…………………

    • jen Says:

      Can they complete a sentence without spraying dissembling pomo jizz all over the place?

      Didn’t think so.

      From Avory Faucette’s Twitter:

      “Everyone has preferences w/i the gender-based orientation, but idea that liking trans women is an EXCEPTION makes no sense”

      The Cotton Ceiling is not about you! Stop telling us that you don’t want to fuck trans women because trans women so do not care! Even though we’ve been going about it on Twitter for days!

      Zie is such a twit:

      “So what #cottonceiling is abt isn’t challenging preferences but challenging the assumption that lesbian sexuality excludes trans women.”

      It’s always Orwellian doublespeak with them. ALWAYS.

      “Trans women aren’t a fetish or an unusual preference for lesbians to have. Rather, particular body type is pref w/i lesbian”

      For people who say the cotton ceiling isn’t about getting lesbians to sleep with trans women, they sure spend a lot of time talking about why lesbians don’t sleep with trans women.

    • ibleedpurple Says:

      The radfems are far from alone in embracing this particular fallacy.

      That is far from a fallacy. This is how society works. Someone needs to tell those people that their post-modern/post-structuralist approach is basically useless in actually establishing or even explaining any kind of behaviour including their own(!). If you look like Clint Eastwood and dress like him and go out into the streets, people will assume you are a man even if you spend the entire day identifying yourself as a woman. The injustice! The transphobia!
      Seriously, what are they expecting? That you do not need to explain yourself to others to make your reality socially salient? Reality is created through social interaction and they totally get it which is the reason why they continuously explain themselves. But then they turn around and claim they can create reality in their heads. No, you cannot. It is very well known that social isolation leads to a destabilization of personality precisely because you are dependent only on yourself to see reality. People are not mindless sycophants to be silenced with attacks because their opinions make you feel insecure since you have never learned to manage your identity on your own.

      • jen Says:

        Everything you say here is true.

        Occasionally I daydream about the internet being shut off suddenly. There are a lot of trans and genderqueer keyboard warriors who within hours would be reduced to rocking back and forth muttering incoherently to themselves. The thought always puts a smile on my face.

  24. moosy Says:

    Good Day
    I’ve always been MUCH more upset by the FTM craze and haven’t given much thought to the MTFs- They always just seemed silly to me and never at all like women, while FTM (which is enormously popular right now among young women) enables almost instant ‘passing’ (to most people, not to me at all) with just a few shots of testosterone… But all this creepy ‘cotton ceiling’ stuff has opened my eyes to a deeply disturbing problem.
    Also, I’d never really thought of myself as a feminist, let alone ‘radical;’ my ex-girlfriend asked me when I mentioned how deeply opposed to transsexualism I am if that’s my ‘one feminist belief.’ I didn’t understand the relation and still don’t honestly; I simply believe in reality, nature, and clean logic.
    Anyway, thank you for this space for analysis and hopefully people in greater numbers will start thinking about and discussing these things freely and with out the guilt of ‘political correctness.’

  25. BadDyke Says:

    Reading other blogs, what keeps coming up again and again is comments about ‘we don’t want to sleep with you anyway’, veiled and not so-veiled references to rad-fems being ugly (even if someone DID stick an addendum saying they meant spiritually ugly not physically ugly because that’s looksism………).

    The maleness just shines through! Even when its coming from the fun-fems and sex-pos liberals.

    And other comments make the intent towards lesbians crystal clear! Plus crystal clear that despite the furious back-pedalling, they ARE talking about OUR refusal to sleep with them, however good we may be as trans-allies.

    http://cnlester.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-cotton-ceiling-and-gender-variance/

    “I see that in the radfem rejection of trans women. “OMG she might want to put her penis inside of me… but I’m a lesbian… my identity won’t LET ME!” I’ve been half-toying with the concept of the anatomical fetish in relationship to that. People get fixated on how the anatomy should be to the point it sours their desire when they discover that it’s not. This is a learned fetish with clear roots and an unhealthy one, especially to those who suffer when they violate its standards.”

    So, desiring female bodies is an unhealthy, learned fetish! Or rather, NOT desiring dick is an unhealthy, learned fetish!

    (And let’s not mention ‘unhealthy anatomical fetishes’ amongst trans folk……..)

    So, the trans answer(s) to any rad-fem who rejects sexual advances:

    1) Saying you won’t sleep with me cos I’ve got a dick is an ‘unhealthy fetish’ (and transphobic).

    2) Now I’ve had the surgery, still saying you won’t sleep with me because surgically-constructed simulacra of female organs aren’t the same as female organs is transphobic and yet another ‘unhealthy fetish’.

    3) Refusing to still sleep with me because, anatomy aside, you say that my attitudes are irrevocably tainted by my (unfortunate) upbringing as a mis-gendered male, is still transphobic and probably sexist as well, because you’re denying the undeniable femaleness of my lady-brain (which magically was never affected by all those years of male socialisation).

    4) Saying you won’t sleep with me because I have still got a dick and could possibly impregnate you is ignorant AND transphobic, because everyone knows that having a magical female brain means that my sperm aren’t REAL, proper, male spermy-sperm, but just shrunken versions of ova. Nope, no Y-chromosomes in there at all…………………

    5) Saying you won’t sleep with me for ANY reason at all, is transphobic/hatred/violence/denying my identity/nasty/mean/upsetting I’m going to CRY now…………….and you’re so fucking ugly you radfem bitch, no decent man (whoops, woman, proper lady-women like me with ladysticks………) would want to sleep with you anyway……………………

    • GallusMag Says:

      Hahaha. I hear ya sister.
      They call their balls “novaries”.
      I read the craaaaaaaaaziest rant last night from a male trans saying that lesbians refusing to sleep with the peen was a form of White Privilege. And that lesbians of color were “even worse” for “demanding cissexist spaces” “as if they were owed something”. I should have bookmarked it.

      OMG I found it again!
      “It’s worse when they’re POC and they feel entitled to their own cissexist space, as if they’re owed it or something.”

      OMG it gets even better- (worse). The more these guys defend their rapetastic female-hating homophobic ways the more they reveal of their sick twisted minds. This one is a CLASSIC:

      http://madgastronomer.tumblr.com/post/20000918677/you-know-what-im-noticing-about-the-recent-onslaught

      • BadDyke Says:

        “Hahaha. I hear ya sister.
        They call their balls “novaries”.”

        Just when I think that my hyperbole has gone too far, I’m depressed to find, yet again, that I haven’t gone NEARLY far enough. There really is no LIMIT to this male madness!

        “rapetastic female-hating homophobic”
        Yep. Add in the transableists as well, and they’ve got nearly the full set — I’m still waiting for a real transracialist…………..Then the man can finally become the black, disabled, lesbian of their jokes.

      • jen Says:

        “Defining womanhood as something outside of a binarist biological deterministic framework scares them because the fact of their skin-deep whiteness and femaleness has given them a lot of protections and a close proximity to powerholders.”

        THERE SHALL BE NO PROTECTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY DICK, BITCH

        AND YES, I WILL COME IN YOUR RACIST MOUTH, BIGOT

        What’s really sad is I’m sure he was really proud of writing this, and truly feels like he’s been done wrong. Pussy begging cloaked in pomo gibberish is still pussy begging, but he has no clue. At least a straight guy might buy you dinner first.

        This is the funniest fucking thing I have ever read. Thanks so much for finding it, GM.

        “But white women have had parlors and sewing circles and shit like that.”

        Fascist cunts!

        On that “blackened butterfly” tumblr, about the WOCs and their evil entitlement to cissexist space:

        “Whiteness influenced thinking has muddled their brains.

        Fucking race traitors.”

        That brought my mind to a complete halt.

        There ain’t no cure for being male. None.

      • jen Says:

        The other thing is it’s obvious at this point that they’re just throwing stuff at the wall hoping something will stick. There’s no social justice struggle they won’t compare their plight to. I’m surprised they haven’t compared themselves to Palestinians yet.

    • Purplerage Says:

      SMH. BadDyke, this pomo-trans-babble is enough to make my brain ache. If so-called anatomical fetishism is unhealthy, according to said trans, then why would M2Ts even fixate on wanting access to Lesbian bodies in the first place? Isn’t that desire to access Lesbians (the only ones amongst the LGBTQ alphabet soup who don’t desire males) a fetish in and of itself? (Not even mentioning the actual fetish M2Ts have made of what they think it is to be female.)

      Why don’t they just have relationships with eachother? Why does that appear to be a problem for them? Gah! What the hell is all this nonsense? What an absolute mindfuck! I just can’t believe this trans-gobbledygook is being taken seriously enough to be catered to, I mean, honestly, this is like some kind of Libertarian decadent indulgent bullshit that only the privileged sons of empire would engage in just before the empire falls.

      Sorry BadDyke these questions aren’t being directed at you in particular. I’m just overcome by the shear queer-wing lunacy of it all.

  26. SheilaG Says:

    Why wouldn’t they want to have relationships with each other? That would be like me as a lesbian expecting het women to have sex with me, and if they didn’t they’d be called homophobic. There is no way I’d be sexually attracted to a het woman.

    To them it’s all a pomo concept, so they would have to negate all sexual attraction based on sex. Biological sex that is.

    Would they call het women transphobic for not wanting Male to Trans?

    Just what is their sexual obsession with lesbians to begin with? I always thought that lesbians were such a small small subgroup, that all this “paranoia” of male pornification of lesbians or males wanting to do corrective rape, or have sex with was just weird.

    But now that I see all this male to trans writing and workshops on the subject, it really does seem like male weirdness going to even greater degrees to undermine lesbian agency, women’s sexual control of our own bodies, and honoring the lesbian love of the female mind body and soul.

    So just have a conference for male to trans only, create sexual spaces for your own community, and leave born women and lesbians alone. Just go off and partner up with each other. We don’t need you, don’t want you sexually, and certainly aren’t interested in sharing women’s sacred space with you. I don’t want you in a locker room leering at me either.

    If it is an open trans and general public event fine. But women do want to create safe, rape free rape mind free space, and while before I wasn’t as concerned with the invasion, now it’s all out in the open. A penis gets women pregnant guys, and why would any lesbian in her right mind ever trust male bodies with anything?

    • Purplerage Says:

      My bad Sheila, what I meant to say was if these M2Ts really believe what they say they are (i.e. lesbians) why don’t they have relationships with eachother? Of course, we know the answer, it’s because they’re heteromales by another name, I don’t for one moment think otherwise. They obviously have some sexual fetish where lesbians are concerned, surprise, surprise, as some kind of extention of their autogynephilia? Who the hell knows what goes on in the fucked up recesses of the heteromale mind?

  27. KittyBarber Says:

    Yes. Well, I’ve been doing what I can in terms of reading this smear of feces out there on the blogs that seem to constitute the M2ts’ world and thinking, and I must say–it gets more difficult every day to take it seriously. It’s SO absurd, so whacked, so stupid–what world do these guys live in? Do they have jobs? Do they have relationships? Are they even real?
    I’ve seen photos of this creepy porn “star” whatever, and that body, with its little hormone-induced pseudo-breasts and all, and really, honestly, he wants–expects– Lesbians to desire this? Wow. I can only be grateful for the small favor he does us by keeping his own undies on. I’ll just pray for that cotton ceiling to remain intact.

  28. BadDyke Says:

    “I’m just overcome by the shear queer-wing lunacy of it all.”

    Same for me Purplerage!

    I guess it’s just that they WON’T go up against straight men rejecting them as ‘real women’, or not being happy with their ‘ladysticks’, but instead go for those people who are always at the bottom of the pile — women. The funfems have caved in no problemo, so it’s just the stroppy radfems and badass dykes.

    I was just looking on Yahoo answers, and you can find questions from a few years back from lesbians asking WHY transwomen consider them nasty for not wanting to date them, and we get the usual totally bloody stupid answers (transgirls are JUST THE SAME AS real girls), and the ‘girls have girl brains’ shite, and the usual confusion of SEX and GENDER — although back then still a bit of understanding of why a lesbian might not want to date someone with a ladystick.

    But now, seems its being taken to the next level, the trans crowd will not suffer ANY disagreement to their little fantasy……………

  29. moose Says:

    another thought as I walk down the street:
    all the lesbians who had been humoring all the ftm’s all this time, pretending they believe they’re men since doing so is relatively harmless, will now have to admit to not buying into Transism so much when being forced to accept dickéd males as lesbians

  30. SheilaG Says:

    All the female to trans I have met in no way seem obnoxious like bio-men. There is just no comparison, because they are still women. The facial expressions, the sensibility… men just don’t know how to act this way around women ever.

    But I don’t believe lesbians will continue to humor these people forever. The tide is turning. Someone above commented on the photo of the male to trans, and how lucky we all were that he left the underwear on… dead give away. If they posted nude photos of themselves with those penis’ on the internet, lesbians would just crack up with laughter at the idea that these men think they are lesbians. They are straight men, they have a fettish for lesbians, they need to date each other, but that would then make them gay men. They want women, they carved their male bodies up, and still they want women… lesbians.
    Even more reason to keep the preditors out of lesbian spaces, as if we needed even more excuses now… geeez.

  31. cherryblossomlife Says:

    Can everyone here just STOP being so racist.

  32. Bev Jo Says:

    You all leave me nothing to add with your brilliant comments!

    I just cannot believe that with all the important things we need to do, as Lesbians and as feminists, we have to be dealing with men trying to get at us — I mean, that will last as long as patriarchy and men last — but this time of women supporting them is outrageous. Otherwise, we really could just laugh about how pathetic and ridiculous and male they are that of course they can’t stand each other.

    As I answer when questioned why I haven’t wanted ever to be intimate with men: “I don’t eat dog shit either.” But these men are even more repulsive than the usual kind! The more they try to look or sound like women, the more they don’t. A much scarier horror movie could be made about them lurching after us than any zombie movie. “Invasion of the Self-Entitled Transholes!

    • fmnst Says:

      Bev, to think you said you couldn’t add anything to the brilliant comments here…

      To begin with, “I don’t eat dog shit, either,” LOL.

      Your whole post was brilliant ;)

  33. KittyBarber Says:

    Something came floating into my head last night, and it’s important enough, I think, to share here.

    I have had many lovers over the years, all different sorts of women, in all different kinds of relationships. Some were long-term, some were once-in-a-lifetime events; some are still friends, some are not. Older, younger, bigger, smaller, taller, shorter, all beautiful to me in one way or another, but all very different from one another.

    They all had one thing in common, however, and that is this: We shared a view of the world, we had similar politics, we loved women. They were, and are, ALL women-loving-women. Personally, sexually, politically.
    And in one way or another, I loved them, each and every one of them. That is the reason we made love. That is the reason we wanted each other. That is what made us attractive to one another.

    I know there are lesbians who have sex without a whole lot of emotion, very casually, call it fucking, all of that. But for me, it was (and still is) never JUST that. My love of women is what makes me want physical intimacy with them. It’s what is ‘between their ears’ just as much as what’s ‘between their legs,’ but in my world anyway, the two are so strongly connected, it makes perfect sense that some person with a dick isn’t on my dance card. That’s who I am; I am a Lesbian.

    So I think perhaps the barrier that these guys sense is not made of cotton at all, but of something much less permeable, much more solid. And it isn’t like a pair of knickers that can be torn off.
    I don’t expect them to understand this. I do expect respect for it. And that’s what’s missing in the trans* view–at least these trans* whatever. Basic, fundamental respect for who I am. Not my “identity.” But for ME. A Lesbian.

  34. BadDyke Says:

    “My love of women is what makes me want physical intimacy with them. It’s what is ‘between their ears’ just as much as what’s ‘between their legs,’ but in my world anyway, the two are so strongly connected, it makes perfect sense that some person with a dick isn’t on my dance card. That’s who I am; I am a Lesbian.”

    Yes, our common biology, our commonality of experience — which influences your view of the world and your politics. Which a transwoman CAN’T have, however much surgery or hormones, or practise at passing. They KNOW that deep down, hence why they claim that our experience ISN’T what makes us what we are, that our BIOLOGY doesn’t matter, that it is instead that magical lady-bit in the brain that they KNOW they have which then makes them just like us.

    WHEN the fuck did the meaning of ‘being a woman’ get twisted into that! Was it just that some funfems and heteros were so amazed that ANY man would willingly lop off his dick, that they then couldn’t open the door fast enough to permit them entry into womanhood. They supposedly DIDN’T WANT to be men, and we must have been so fucking grateful for that that we let them in. Except now the disguise has slipped, they’re still men in the head, whether or not they’re complete in the body, and certainly not woman.

    What IS woman? What IS lesbian? And we’re not being allowed to answer that for ourselves, or at least describe what it means to US, because woman-born-woman is labelled as cis-sexist, and lesbian being only attracted to biological females is transphobic, and women NOT being male-bodied, male-brained, or male-conditioned is transphobic………………….

    They think there are quick answers, identity and who we are or who we want to be, or claim to be, can be just sorted out by identifying as it. Biology and sex can be erased, hence our oppression doesn’t exist, we just have to magically WISH to be not what we are. Or yet again, the men want us to become what they think we should be, woman remade yet again in mens image of woman, lesbian remade yet again in mens image of lesbian.

    I think radfems saw it coming all along, just depressing the extent to which they’ve conned the funfems to going along with it as well.

  35. BadDyke Says:

    A very apt quote from Adrienne Rich:

    “Lesbian existence comprises both the breaking of a taboo and the rejection of a compulsory way of life. It is also a direct or indirect attack on the male right of access to women.”

    …and that’s what they’re can’t BEAR. So they’ll try to erase/deny/redefine us, to make us yet again in their image to suit their purposes.

  36. moosy Says:

    still I think it’s harmful that people think that only ‘radical feminists’ don’t believe in changing one’s sex
    I mean it’s likely I would be considered a feminist by most, since women are the people I spend the bulk of my time with and adore, but I do not politicize my personal preferences and I have never been in a ‘lesbian space’ nor have I wanted to be; I’d rather be in a gathering of crossword enthusiasts or people who share whatever other interest be they female or male
    I simply think sex changes are absurd but the only spaces I find online discussing the topic are ‘lesbian feminist’ ones- aside from nutters who hate everybody who is different from them…
    just a little ramble from me in nyc

    • jen Says:

      So some SWPL (Stuff White People Like) hipster bisexual like Faucette can lecture lesbians on how to be lesbians and women, and it’s okay because she is “genderqueer?”

      Faucette’s statement:

      “You’re confused about what it means to be a lesbian, or a woman.”

      is homophobic, as well as misogynist.

      You don’t have to be a lesbian to take umbrage at the suggestion that lesbians are guilty of something called “cissexism” for categorically rejecting sex with the male-bodied, bepenised or not.

      If I ever had the impulse to consider using the prefix cis, or to humor the genderqueer with their silly ass pronouns, this incident has nullified it.

      I saw Stephen Ira, the former Kathlyn Beatty, refer to radfems as “radscum” on Twitter the other day. There’d be no feminism without the efforts of radfems, especially the lesbians, so if trans and genderqueers are forcing me to choose between them and the radfems, I’m going with the radfems.

      • jen Says:

        Faucette left a message on her Twitter today regarding a “lot of telling trans ppl how to live own lives.”

        I’m sure the irony is lost on her.

  37. Bev Jo Says:

    Oh Kitty, that was exquisite. Really beautiful and well said. I wish you could put it to song!

    In the beginning, it was Lesbian Separatists who I mostly saw protesting men being including into the Lesbian community. The non-Separatists mostly seemed flattered. But always some Lesbians protested, like when Elliott not only joined the Daughters of Bilitis, but became vice-president in 1971, and the protest led to the split and ending of the original of one of the original Lesbian organizations in the US. Then Jeanne Cordova invited him to play his “Lesbian music” at the LA Lesbian conference in 1973. I never understood why some were so thrilled to have this man who was so unappealing by any standards.

    I just wasted time again in a large “Feminism” group in fb because I had to comment when there was a pro-trannie post showing a photo of Tobi Hill-Meyer. There I was, alone again, as the group went at me. I linked to here and asked did they accept the “trans paraplegic,” which they kept ignoring while they insulted me and kept going on about how trannies are the most oppressed, victims of violence, etc. I answered with all that we know, and they just do not care. One was revealing though — when I talked about how Lesbians, as an oppressed people, have the right to our own space away from men — she started a rant about how Lesbians and gay men and no one wants her because she’s a bisexual — and that turned into carrying on about how hard it is for women who wear lipstick and pass as het, etc. She went right down the list of naming the more privileged position in each case as if they were badly treated. Somehow, she had identified with the privileged person wanting access to a more oppressed community, whether it was her, who thinks Lesbians and gay men owe her, or the trannies who think we owe them. So that was an interesting, if irrational connection.

    I hesitated to ask the women there if they would let the trannies fuck them because I think some would have said “Sure.” But Lesbians would not.

    • Mary Sunshine Says:

      Bev, it’s for that reason that I won’t join any “feminist” groups on fb. Even lesbian groups are questionable – or shall I say unsafe if one wishes to stay out of smackdowns.

      There is no lesbian separatist visibility on the internet – for good reason. We know what those reasons are.

      • KittyBarber Says:

        Mary, I have to agree. I worry about the abuse some of us are taking on these pages. It isn’t healthy, really, it hurts. Kudos, Bev, if you can do it and come out unscathed, but I know how deeply it can cut.

    • fmnst Says:

      Bev, if you post the link here to that FB page, some of us here could come and support you. It does help to have back-up. I think that is something each of us could provide to one another, in various venues online (and offline.) It really does make a difference, for our own sanity points, and in helping people realize we aren’t just one isolated person no one else agrees with.

      I saw a trannie site awhile ago that was an add-on list of every instance of “transphobia” on the web and perhaps in the offline world, to which trans allies could flock to chip away at perceived injustice. I think we should do the same. How about it, GM, on the Cotton Ceiling site? We could each post links of where we are taking up the cause and join one another there, to support and educate.

  38. RoseVerbena Says:

    I’m with KittyB — I don’t fuck, I make love.

    No one is getting through my cotton — or silk, or denim, or whatever — “ceiling” unless I’m IN LOVE with them — as in abiding in a state of deep, heart-felt caring with them.

    The very idea that some skanky, hateful, sexist dude in mascara and heels thinks that he can DICK-tate to me whom I must or should our ought to love is…revolting.

    He doesn’t know the first thing about me — what excites me, what interests me, what makes me sigh with admiration, respect and desire, what ignites all the little love-fires in the labyrinthine forests, warrens and caves of my brain.

    What fricking nerve.

  39. BadDyke Says:

    Particularly interesting those who are keen to claim that lesbian desire/sexuality is culturally conditioned (yes, WE know it is, thanks for stating the bleedin’ obvious! Transplain again),……

    Whilst at the SAME TIME totally ignoring the elephant in the room, the objections to trans AS women because of their cultural conditioning as MALES. You can’t remove that with a quick surgical inversion, if only it were so easy………………….

    • jen Says:

      Excellent point!

      Transactivists always do this. They think they’ve got you with some clever theorizin,’ but they never apply the same analysis to themselves. Like Avory Faucette telling lesbians they’re confused, and then whining on her Twitter that people are telling trans how to live!

      This is partly because trans women think they have female brains which immunize them against male conditioning, any possible residue of which is purged once they recite the “I am woman” shahada. At this point they become the most holy oppressed group of all, who are now above critical analysis. On the funfem blogs, trans women have become the final arbiters of what can and cannot be said, and wield the dreaded accusation of “transmisogyny,” the very worst sort of misogyny of all, and women cower before their judgment. Just like they do before men everywhere.

      Transmisogyny – it’s the new witchcraft!

  40. Bev Jo Says:

    It is way more than cultural conditioning with these men. They are deeply different from females, on a spiritual/mind/soul/heart level. They just are. Some who try to be kind and loving do admit this and try very hard to fight what I think is their male natural inclination to rape and kill. That’s why domesticated males are castrated. They are dangerous. For those who do not want to be like this, I think it’s an ongoing battle for them. I remember Michael Moore being interviewed and saying “We (men) just want to fuck everything in front of us.”

    Yes, they fuck. I don’t. I agree, Rose and Kitty. I make love, which is a deeply spiritual, magical, soul-connecting experience.

    Those men claiming to be us are completely rape-focused, whether it’s demanding sexual access to us or access to our spaces, publications, groups, etc. They do not get it. They never will. But again, I am so fed up with the women who support them against us.

  41. RoseVerbena Says:

    To clarify:

    A) Lesbian feminism is automagically racist, regardless of the race of the lesbian feminist or her actual attitudes, beliefs or behaviors vis the subject of race;

    B) People born with a penis trying to force themselves sexually on lesbians via manipulation, guilt-tripping and/or coercion is anti-cissexist, while resisting them is transphobic;

    C) You will definitely need a great big ol’ invisible “lady spot” in your brain to understand either A or B.

  42. Darcie Says:

    what’s beyond the cotton ceiling?
    http: //motherjones.com/mojo/2012/03/knit-your-congressman-vagina-contraception-abortion


  43. [...] “The Cotton Ceiling” (gendertrender.wordpress.com) Share this:PrintEmailTwitterFacebookStumbleUponRedditDiggTumblrLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Leave a Comment by Nicky on April 6, 2012  •  Permalink Posted in intersex Tagged Activism, feminism, intersex, Intersexed, Kallmann syndrome, lesbian, transgender, Transgendered [...]

  44. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Reply

    KittyBarber Says:

    March 29, 2012 at 2:46 pm
    Something came floating into my head last night, and it’s important enough, I think, to share here.

    I have had many lovers over the years, all different sorts of women, in all different kinds of relationships. Some were long-term, some were once-in-a-lifetime events; some are still friends, some are not. Older, younger, bigger, smaller, taller, shorter, all beautiful to me in one way or another, but all very different from one another.

    They all had one thing in common, however, and that is this: We shared a view of the world, we had similar politics, we loved women. They were, and are, ALL women-loving-women. Personally, sexually, politically.
    And in one way or another, I loved them, each and every one of them. That is the reason we made love. That is the reason we wanted each other. That is what made us attractive to one another.

    I know there are lesbians who have sex without a whole lot of emotion, very casually, call it fucking, all of that. But for me, it was (and still is) never JUST that. My love of women is what makes me want physical intimacy with them. It’s what is ‘between their ears’ just as much as what’s ‘between their legs,’ but in my world anyway, the two are so strongly connected, it makes perfect sense that some person with a dick isn’t on my dance card. That’s who I am; I am a Lesbian.

    So I think perhaps the barrier that these guys sense is not made of cotton at all, but of something much less permeable, much more solid. And it isn’t like a pair of knickers that can be torn off.
    I don’t expect them to understand this. I do expect respect for it. And that’s what’s missing in the trans* view–at least these trans* whatever. Basic, fundamental respect for who I am. Not my “identity.” But for ME. A Lesbian.

    WOW. That was just beautiful, Kitty Barber,just beautiful. And Bad dyke, you’re just so…Baaaaddddd! You womyn make me feel sane again, EVERYWHERE, even my own women’s spirituality community is being coopted by the transapologists, first, and the trans haven’t YEt come marching in,but there is such dissension between the women BEFORE the storm. Once they breach the barricade, the energy will irrevocably change, and no longer be Sacred WBW space anymore..even one born male can change it..no matter how effeminate or feminine he appears on the outside.

    I and a Dyke friend was going to do some work for another Dyke friend, and when I arrived another two would paying for the work, one of them was an MTF.My friend was only an assistant,and I had no clue the other two would be in the bargaining/negotiation.

    Instead of working for most Lesbians where they look to my expertise, the MTF KNEW everything, a complete know it all..cuz NO Dyke, no born female can know more than him. And while I was respectful when I was there cuz I wanted the job, I referred to him as ‘her’ there, but in the back of my mind I”m thinking: “JUst like working for one of the dudes….just like a dude in disguise.. not at all mentally or emotionally female!. Same old male b.s.” and yet the Lesbians are ‘going along with’ the charade having ‘accepted him’ in the girl club, and one of them dating him…and I’m thinking “Any so called Lesbian dating an MTF is essentially bisexual.” They can THINK they’re dating a woman, but NO WAY. Bossy, know it all, and better than. I did not get the job, cuz he knew better than me, at my own field! I think they wanted us out there just to pick our brains…but I made sure I got paid for my consultation time. So this is proof in the pudding, not just theoretical online stuff. NO WOMAN, NO BORN FEMALE DYKE, KNOWS MORE THAN ANY MAN ALIVE, WHETHER IT’S A MASCULINE MALE, OR ONE WHO IS DISGUISED AS A FEMALE!

    oH, I will give you the website. And yes, at facebook my handle is also FeistyAmazon, and has been for years….It could come up as Feisty Amazon instead of all in a row like here….(FeistyAmazon).


  45. [...] you for that rant Hanna, very much with you on all of that. GallusMag has several Cotton Ceiling posts, here and here. I thank GM in advance for nicking (should that be knickering?) the [...]


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 597 other followers

%d bloggers like this: