Julia Serano: The Women’s Liberation Movement is Incompatible with Transgenderism

April 19, 2012

Quote: “My penis is more powerful than the cocks of a million alpha-males, all put together.”

Hot off the presses- The Ms. Magazine press, no less, comes this anti-feminist screed from everyone’s favorite “Cocky”  misogynist Julia Serano. Serano, a male, explains to Ms. readers how feminists should not focus on female concerns.

“Trans feminism—that is, transgender perspectives on feminism, or feminist perspectives on transgender issues—is one of many so-called “third-wave” feminisms. Its origins are closely linked with other feminist submovements—specifically, sex-positive feminism, postmodern/poststructuralist feminism, queer theory and intersectionality. These strands of feminism  represent a move away from viewing sexism as an overly simplistic, unilateral form of oppression, where men are the oppressors and women are the oppressed, end of story.”

That’s right folks! In Serano’s version of what he calls “Trans-feminism” (the prefix means: “across,”“beyond,” “through,” “changing thoroughly,” “transverse, ”the “crossing over” of feminism into it’s opposite) the fight against male oppression of females is obsolete! Because such oppression doesn’t really exist! At least not for guys like him. What next? “Strands” of racial justice that “move away from viewing racism as an overly simplistic unilateral form of oppression, where whites are oppressors and people of color are the oppressed’? Because “cis-ethnic” people oppress the whites donchaknow! “Strands” of economic justice that  “move away from viewing class as an overly simplistic unilateral form of oppression, where the wealthy are oppressors and poor people are the oppressed”? Because “cis-impoverished” people oppress the wealthy trans-poverished donchaknow.

Serano calls for an end to a movement that centralizes the rights and concerns of female people. Serano, a male, also claims that people of the female sex have no common class experiences based on sex.

“The myth that there is some kind of universal women experience was debunked by women of color, among others, long ago. All of us have different life histories, sexism impacts each of our lives somewhat differently and each of us is privileged in some ways but not others. Some feminists may obstinately insist that cis women have it far worse than trans women, or that traditional sexism is far worse than cissexism, or heterosexism, but the point of feminism is not to engage in this kind of Oppression Olympics. Rather, the point is to challenge societal sexism and other forms of marginalization. This is what trans feminists are focused on doing.”

Dang females obstinately insisting on organizing together about specifically FEMALE concerns! You obstinate laydees you! (shakes man fist).

Hahaha! Leave it to a male- a female fetishizing and female-impersonating male at that- to claim those born female have no common universal experiences as an oppressed class BASED ON SEX. Duh.

A female liberation movement should not centralize females why? Ohhh, because there are OTHER forms of oppression in the world tooooo! “There are also other forms of marginalization prevalent in our society, such as racism, classism and ableism.” Ohhhhhhh. Why fight racism when: poverty! Female issues should never be centralized in a social justice movement when there are OTHER injustices in the world. Save the whales, yo.

What spurred his sexist anti-female essay? His assertion that females have no right to discuss gender and its relationship to our women’s liberation movement, and his complaint about such a previous discussion hosted on the Ms. Blog here: http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/03/20/future-of-feminism-transfeminism-and-its-conundrums

“Dove-Viebahn’s post gives credence to those feminists who refuse to acknowledge cissexism or intersectionality, and instead frame trans issues solely in terms of male privilege.”

Seriously, can you imagine these doods writing on economic justice sites about how the “cis-poor” oppress the rich, or racial justice sites about how the “cis-blacks” oppress whites in blackface, or how “cis-disabled” people oppress those with an amputation fetish? Oh HELL no. Their asses would be kicked off (or laughed off) the sites quicker than you can say BULLLLSHIT. But when it comes to FEMALES and FEMALE concerns then hey, let’s hear what the male has to say about our little FEMALE LIBERATION MOVEMENT. And how we’re “doing it wrong” and oppressing males with our “Cis- Femaleness”. Mean man-hating feminists! (fist shake)

If, as Serano asserts, oppression based on being born female doesn’t exist, if there is no universal female class experience based on being female-bodied, if there is no need for a movement to dismantle male supremacy, Then WHY LORD WHY do these guys endlessly, relentlessly try to STOP FEMALES from organizing around FEMALE concerns?? If it’s so unimportant, then why do they care? Hahaha.

I think we all know the answer to that one. He says it himself. Transgenderism is incompatible with a liberation movement for FEMALES.

Damn “obstinant” and “refusing” women! Stop thinking about yourselves! (shakes man fist)

 

70 Responses to “Julia Serano: The Women’s Liberation Movement is Incompatible with Transgenderism”

  1. KittyBarber Says:

    If the question is left to Ms. Magazine, Serano may be right, and there’s no need for–indeed, no such thing as–a liberation movement for ‘females.’ After all, there are really no men and really no women, and certainly there is no problem with ‘men-as-oppressors.’ Thank you, thank you, Ms. Magazine, for giving us the enlightened and enlightening work of Mr. Serano, with his all-powerful penis. Where would we be without you? We are, after all, just a bunch of silly ‘cissys,’ who have no business talking to one another about these matters, which are better left in the hands of TRANSfeminists.

    Funny thing though, as Gallus points out: “If, as Serano asserts, oppression based on being born female doesn’t exist, if there is no universal female class experience based on being female-bodied, if there is no need for a movement to dismantle male supremacy, Then WHY LORD WHY do these guys endlessly, relentlessly try to STOP FEMALES from organizing around FEMALE concerns?? If it’s so unimportant, then why do they care? ”

    But they DO care. In fact, they care so much that there isn’t much for them to discuss, other than how wonderful they are, and how silly and simple-minded we old-fashioned feminists are. (And “transphobic.” Can’t leave out transphobia, another illusion that is the single response to every and any critique of TRANS__________ fill-in-the-blank.)

    Serano has been debunked and discredited over and over again, and yet, “Ms.,” in its wisdom, chooses to give voice to him, a woman-hating anti-feminist, to explain us to ourselves. And it’s not even a spoof–or is it really an article from “The Onion?”

  2. GallusMag Says:

    It does seem like an Onion spoof! Sadly, it is not.
    I encourage people to post at the Ms. site and also on their Facebook post:
    http://www.facebook.com/msmagazine

    Feel free to re-post your comments here. Not sure if Ms. will silence female voices re: “Gender” as some other sites have done. If you re-post your comments here we can see what was censored, if anything.
    Thanks!

    • KittyBarber Says:

      Thi is the comment I posted on the Ms. Blog: it is still awaiting moderation:
      KittyBarber says:
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.
      April 19, 2012 at 12:43 am

      I thought I had misunderstood when I read this, that I was actually reading a spoof in “The Onion.” How could it be that Ms. is actually publishing this–incomprehensible rant? Serano is one of the most woman-hating, feminist-bashing writers in existence; and here I am, at a feminist blog, reading all about how there is no such thing as the oppression of women, no need for silly old-fashioned feminism–in fact, no men, no women, just a vast collection of “gender identities” of various orders, and “intersectionality” is the REAL thing, everything else merely “transphobia.”
      WHAT?
      Please go to the April 19th edition of GenderTrender.Wordpress.com, for a truly brilliant critique of this article.
      And Ms., please remember to reserve a bit of space, now and again, for feminists around the world who are reminded every day that male supremacy and oppression is quite real, indeed. They may not be allowed to write in some countries. Mr. Serano and his self-described “powerful penis,” has quite enough press as it is.

      Sincerely
      Kitty Barber
      Boston


  3. Thanks Gallus. Incredible (or rather, typical) that Serano has the gall to include this – ‘Some feminists may obstinately insist that cis women have it far worse than trans women, or that traditional sexism is far worse than cissexism, or heterosexism, but the point of feminism is not to engage in this kind of Oppression Olympics.’

    As if a prominent part of trans activism right now weren’t insisting that every feminist discussion be derailed with accusations that cissexist feminists (such as pro-choice campaigners) are oppressing trans women, who are the oppressedest of all! Serano is gaslighting.

    Of course, this stuff can influence those who engage with these issues primarily via abstraction and the internet, but those who have seen how this plays out in action will be much less impressed.

    BTW, is that gif what I think it is? Love it.

    PS – linking again with your permission (I know you already link to this) to http://debunkingserano.wordpress.com/how-does-this-thing-work/ .

    I would love to put forward a marxist criticism of Serano’s post-structuralist wank, but am so grateful for those feminists not of my political persuasion who’ve taken the time and energy to point out just how fundamentally sexist (and anti-materialist) this stuff is.

  4. ibleedpurple Says:

    I posted this comparatively mild comment:

    Rather, the point is to challenge societal sexism and other forms of marginalization.

    No, the point of feminism is to liberate women. If you want to make it toothless and irrelevant by turning it into a political correct shadow of itself be my guest. But then the “feminist” movement will have to do without me – a lot other women who despite your and your ilks ramblings about “intersectionality” do not actually have the academic background to understand 90% of what you have written now and what bascically amounts to the vocabulary of a certain in-group. (I don’t think it is too bad that I have my own corner where I talk about academic/theoretical concepts to my liking. However, my opinions are probably irrelevant to a massive number of women. And so are yours, Serano – do not pretend it is otherwise.)

    When we do not put women’s concers front and center the most marginalized women will not have anywhere to turn to for their very real experiences of very real discrimination based on their sex alone. Individual experiences are individual. I do not need anyone to tell me that because I am not stupid or otherwise mentally impaired. However, as human beings we are social animals and need each other’s social reactions to make sense of what we are. We need commonalities, we need community. There is no community were everyone is a completely unique individual. That is not essentialist because people with things in common easily discover that they are reacted to in similar ways. This is a political movement’s base. Keep the base, build on it. Focusing on how everyone experiences oppression differently is all fine and well – however, if this becomes the entire point people will end up policing and concern-trolling each other all the time and nothing will be done.

    albeit not by those who continue to adhere to a unilateral men-oppress-women-end-of-story approach to feminism

    So there are instances in which women oppress men? Tell me more about this exciting new concept of bilateral or multilateral oppression where everyone oppresses everyone else. Must be really nifty to gloss over structural violence and group-based power differences which make this bilateralism/multilateralism no more than a fairytale you tell yourself before you go to bed because you cannot accept that large-scale differences exist.”

    Let’s see what happens. Ms. is known to censor quite selectively

    • jen Says:

      I saw this reply to your comment, ibleedpurple:

      Wow, the willful ignorance and stubborn resistance to intersectionality in some corners of feminism is truly disappointing.

      To the MTF Transgender Borg, intersectionality means that men who think women owe them something are entitled to it.

      The refusal of libfems to take the long view of all this accommodation and erasure of women’s biological reality is infuriating.

      That trans woman’s answer to your question of instances in which women oppress men says it all:

      False rape charges, family law, anti-pornography and anti-prostitution legislation, but I do not participate in pity parties. I’m a trans woman, and advocate equal rights for all.

      Why does every trans woman on the internet from Toni to Valerie Keefe parrot MRA talking points? Men are OPPRESSED when they don’t have full access to porn and prostitutes! All hail the almighty dick!

      Why aren’t trans women like Toni concern trolling the NAACP and the UAW since she thinks everyone oppresses each other equally?

      • Darcie Says:

        So what now? Are we supposed to practice some kind of trickle down activism, concentrating a disproportionate number of feminist resources on the wants of this one small community of trans in the hope that one day, through the forces of intersectionality, it will benefit us so much in the end that it will have made it worth our while? Sorry, I already learned that lesson. No good deed has gone unpunished when I’ve used my time, money and energy to help trans. Same for nursing HIV positive gay men. I don’t buy in to Reagonomics either. I can’t even depend on a clear definition of intersectionality from these self-serving pomo enthusiasts.

  5. Ashland Avenue Says:

    Oh Serano, you lying, woman-despising, narcissistic, reeking piece of shit. Gotta love how he commands us not to play Oppression Olympics, then proceeds to do exactly that. Interpreting his article, feminism should become like the “National Center for Lesbian Rights” (those are irony quotes there) – expanding our focus so much that all focus is completely blurred and lost. Because we’re women! And we’re supposed to be nice like that! And take care of EVERYBODY!! Even at extreme cost to ourselves!! ‘Cause that’s the role of women, and don’t you forget it, little lady!

    I have always found commonality with other women. No matter if they were a different financial or social class than me, or
    a different race. Always. Don’t try to tell me otherwise. That is known as denying my lived experience, something that
    Serano just loves to scream about. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, Mr. Serano.

    In short: Fuck you, Serano. Fuck your misogynistic beliefs. Fuck your misogynistic actions. Fuck your attempted gaslighting of women. Fuck your trying to disempower women. Fuck your momma, your poppa, and whatever god you believe in. Fuck your whole life. You are an enemy to women.

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Yep, Serano and his buddies are the original Oppression Olympics players, seeing as how “trans women” are The Most Oppressed People On Earth ™. Gah.

  6. BadDyke Says:

    Just to add that on Facebook, a gay man has dared to be ‘transphobic’ as well!

    “For example, I can work with and socialize with a F2T, but as a gay man, I should not be expected to consider a F2T as a viable sex partner or otherwise be considered transphobic. The concept that “gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs” is utter nonsense to anyone and everyone who does not identify as trans. ”

    And he didn’t claim that his gay rights were feminism as well, or just another form of sexism……………………

    Another post, not so great:

    “so that we can strengthen our collective fight for equality for all people.”

    Well, good for you, but that ain’t FEMINISM.

    Says it all really, just in those two posts. Not everyone is taken in by this crap.

  7. SheilaG Says:

    Just proves he’s a real man, that’s all. Why does Ms. give a plateform to this feminist hating man?
    That’s what really freaks me out. I dare him to say this about race or social class, dare him!

  8. SheilaG Says:

    I posted a blunt comment about trans with penis’, about how he can’t be impregnated during rape, and how people with penis in a women’s shower room are a threat to women. I don’t know how to repost here, but there is only one comment on the Ms. site right now and it is big surprise… pro-Serano. We’ll see if they print women’s liberation perspectives at all.

  9. SheilaG Says:

    oopps, I discovered 55 other comments, but it might have been a different MS. article linked here?
    Anyway, I posted there as well, and it seemed like quite a few born women were defending feminism, and women’s rights. So we’ll see, but this is a perfect way to educate a lot of women about rape is restrooms, about Univer of Penn, about trans invading land owned privately by women. And a good way to call out men for inventing Cis as yet another male way of destroying born women, and projecting unwanted names on us.

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Personally, I’m on a one-woman campaign to get people to understand that “…’cis’ is hate-speech…”. I post it everywhere I go.

      In what other political movement do we allow the oppressor class to re-name the oppressed class at will and expect them to just suck it up. I double-dog-dare these dudes to come up with a “new and improved” name for black people or disabled people and try to impose it on them against their will.

      The shit storm to follow would be a thing of awesome power.

      Yet too many “feminists” are happy to be “cis’d” by these MEN. Revolting.

  10. Sargasso Sea Says:

    My comment awaiting moderation:

    “The myth that there is some kind of universal women experience was debunked by women of color, among others, long ago.”

    Is that so?

    Women of color do not have uteri? Women of color are not forced to bear unwanted children? Women of color are not forced to abort wanted children? Women of color are not expected to conform to expensive “beauty standards”? Women of color are not trained from birth to cater to men’s needs and sexual desires? Women of color are not discouraged from breastfeeding their offspring at all, let alone in public? Women of color are not looked upon as sex objects from a very early age? Women of color are not overwhelmingly sexually abused as children because they are female, but because they are *of color*? Women of color are not routinely discouraged from math and the sciences? Women of color are not expected to do double duty working in and outside of the home?

    It is not surprising that you and the M2T community have difficulty acknowledging that these female-based oppressions are “universal women (sic) experience” when they do not effect you personally. How can you possibly *get* something that you have exactly zero experience with, and further to then feel free to tell females that we have no universal realities in common?

    It is noteworthy that the first people to listen to, and take seriously, WOC’s diurnal concerns were other WOMEN. Other FEMINISTS, specifically, because we could relate to each other based upon our “universal women (sic) experience” that you willfully deny to suit your own purposes.


  11. Just wanted to add – I notice Serano trying to pretend you need to be a post-structuralist wanker in order to recognise that female oppression isn’t experienced in universally the same way, by the tactic of implicitly hitching feminist WOC highlighting of this to the anti-materialist politics (sex-positive feminism, postmodern/poststructuralist feminism, queer theory) Serano mentions. (“The myth that there is some kind of universal women experience was debunked by women of color, among others, long ago.”)

    Some of us much prefer not to adopt post-structuralism simply because of Serano’s attempts to fit up any disagreeing stance as being universalising.

    Those of us actually acquainted with other types of feminism know this to be pure crap (I believe some feminism deals inadequately with racism, but that doesn’t mean it’s universalising). Sure no woman has exactly the same experiences as another, but that doesn’t mean it follows that females aren’t oppressed as a sex. Which is the big mistake that those influenced by postmodernism make. They get confused by individual differences in experience, and national/ethnic etc differences in the implementation of women’s oppression. So much so that they have trouble focussing on the structural oppression (deprivation of material rights and conditions accorded to other social sectors) of females. So if they even manage to acknowledge that the commonality that women have is that we are all oppressed as females, they still mistakenly conclude that there are no general dynamics of oppression that specifically target those thought to be female.

    A better way of looking at it, of course, is to look at what relationship the individual has had to female-oppressing structures and dynamics from birth (since infant rearing, childhood socialization and the education received in this period are what pretty much forms adult psychology and the access one has to various forms of employment). Does society hold a general expectation for that individual to be the reproducer, bearer and carer of the next generation, part of the sector whose job it is to provide sex. Etc. [Structural oppression of females is not hard to identify.]

    Of course, the trans/queer/pomo approach to socialization is to see it purely in terms of the social *messages* received by individuals. Thus, some hold, young females can be socialized as males despite not being treated that way by others, simply because they manage to home in on social messages about how males should behave, and ‘internalize’ them. While internalizing certain socially-endorsed messages about boys and girls is *part* of how socialization works, it is pomo anti-materialism to conclude that that constitutes the main impact of socialization. Socialization (or formation of psychology) primarily takes place via the experiences by the day, hour and minute of how to negotiate life in the position in societal power dynamics into which one is thrust. It is primarily determined by power differentials and by what material privilege one has, not by abstract ‘messages’, erroneously intercepted. Similarly, a Caucasian person who hates racism and identifies with racially-oppressed people still does not experience racial oppression. Failure to ‘identify’ with their own Caucasian privilege does not mean they are conscious of all aspects of that privilege, and does not mean they don’t benefit from it.

    Finally, while male privilege is certainly a complex thing with varied manifestations, like female oppression (and I agree that some trans women who ‘pass’ will experience aspects of women’s oppression), I still would not expect Serano to discuss male privilege sensibly.

    Indeed, a problem with this whole area tends to be that females (particularly feminists) face the heat for the oppression of trans women, despite males being mainly involved in ensuring/ implementing this. This confusion tends to lead to phenomena like the assertion that the proportionally far greater incarceration rates of trans women vs females means that those trans women have not benefitted from ‘male privilege’. What this concretely means is important, since it would presumably therefore be accurate to say (because males are incarcerated more than females, in general) that male privilege does not exist. So female disadvantage doesn’t either. So females aren’t oppressed.

    Oiiii …. also, the stepping up of pressure on feminists to conform with the trans line seems to be getting quite critical. It seems that in most liberal circles and sites, it’s impossible for even those of us who’ve taken a trans-inclusionary position to engage in rational discussion about feminism, since it seems post-structuralism (and the idea that biology is transphobic) is so rigidly enforced.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Your comments on the Ms. post KICK ASS! Fantastic. Thank you and thanks to everyone who took the time to refute the article -and the many bizarre male-supremacist comments left on it by male and “male-identified” trans. Kudos to all. :)

      • RoseVerbena Says:

        They keep moderating my posts and I have been basically posting TO the moderators for the past 24 hours. I figure that this is a great opportunity to communicate with them even if they’re not willing to let my posts through.

    • ned Says:

      Great comment.

  12. ethicalequinox Says:

    “Trans feminism—that is, transgender perspectives on feminism, or feminist perspectives on transgender issues—is one of many so-called “third-wave” feminisms. Its origins are closely linked with other feminist submovements—specifically, sex-positive feminism, postmodern/poststructuralist feminism, queer theory and intersectionality.”

    In other words, bullshit?

  13. ethicalequinox Says:

    Well, it looks like a gay male has been allowed to comment that he shouldn’t be forced to sleep with FtT in order to not be labeled transphobic. My comment, which I didn’t cap unfortunately, was deleted in short order! And I wasn’t even that mean!

  14. ethicalequinox Says:

    Okay, so it’s not even noon and I’ve commented here 3 times! Sorry GM! I can’t resist…

    “…those who continue to adhere to a unilateral men-oppress-women-end-of-story approach to feminism.”

    This is EXACTLY what militaristic political leaders say when they are trying to justify use of force against the “offending” nation, state, or ethnic group of choice. That “THEY are really oppressing US, and we have no other option than to silence (or destroy) them first! If you’re not with us, you’re against us!” rhetoric is the go-to response whenever patriarchal males get power-hungry, and this has been borne out countless times throughout history. I really, really wish that more super-duper educated libfems would spend less time in pomo-BS-gender studies departments and instead do some bona fide research on women’s history/history/political strategies in general, which they all seem to compulsively ignore.

  15. jen Says:

    Great summary, Gallus, and great comments so far. FYI, as of late 2009 according to Serano’s LiveJournal blog, Serano’s penis has shuffled off ‘er mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisible. It is an ex-penis.

    Serano: “In addition to traditional sexism (where men are viewed as more legitimate than women), there is heterosexism (where heterosexuals are viewed as more legitimate than homosexuals), monosexism (where people who are exclusively attracted to members of a single sex are viewed as more legitimate than bisexuals/pansexuals), masculine-centrism (where masculine gender expression is viewed as more legitimate than feminine gender expression) and so on.”

    Yawn, boring old traditional sexism, where for every death in childbirth, another 20 women are left with a temporary or permanent disability. Ho hum to women’s issues like forced pregnancy, fistula, menopause and pelvic organ prolapse, the latter of which affects more than 600,000 women in Nepal alone. As women’s advocates like Christine Kent have documented, pelvic organ prolapse is not only epidemic in post-partum women, but increasingly common in women who have never had children, yet it receives virtually no attention from the media or major health organizations. Let us women instead confess our “cis privilege”, penitently endure these untreated “silent epidemics” and instead prioritize trans women’s “reproductive issues” such as their “need” for breast implants. As trans activist Voz put it recently, there are trans women who earn their womanhood, and there are privileged cis women who have pampered female bodies unfairly handed to them. As Tumblr trans queen Kinsey Hope would say, “Cis the fuck down!”

    For trans activists like Serano, if feminism doesn’t at all times address every form of oppression affecting anyone, it is illegitimate. If feminism neglects to center trans women’s issues and dares to address something that ONLY affects the female-bodied, it is “transmisogynist”. Serano wants to concern troll feminism to death, out of sheer spite. When medicine, for which female bodies are still alien, inferior territory, has not even begun to address the chronic and life-threatening conditions suffered by females on a global level, this is sheer misogyny.

    This Scum-O-Rama post shows you how much Serano cares about her female-bodied “sisters.”

    http://scumorama.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/mtf-trans-bored-over-reproductive-rights-centered-feminism/

    Finally, affluent white trans women like Serano only invoke racism, classism and ableism when they are attacking females. They’re not fooling anyone but the funfems. As Voz said on Twitter yesterday: “If you’re a white trans woman and not selling it, you’re probably not goong [sic] to wind up on TDoR [Transgender Day of Remembrance]. Remember that.”

    Oh, snap.

  16. smash Says:

    This is SO infuriating. Great reporting GM.


  17. *Goes into a sputtering rage fit*

  18. bugbrennan Says:

    Reblogged this on Pretendbians: Exactly Like Lesbians, Except Not and commented:
    #1 Pretendbian REALLY hates females. Why do Lesbians allow heterosexual Males to tell them what’s what?

  19. bugbrennan Says:

    bugbrennan ‏ @bugbrennan Reply Delete Favorite · Open
    @msmagazine @JuliaSerano Such bullshit from the #1 Pretendbian! http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/julia-serrano-the-womens-liberation-movement-is-incompatible-with-transgenderism
    View media
    26s bugbrennan ‏ @bugbrennan Reply Delete Favorite · Open
    @msmagazine wtf is up with this shit? heterosexual males shouldn’t talk about what females need http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/julia-serrano-the-womens-liberation-movement-is-incompatible-with-transgenderism

  20. RoseVerbena Says:

    Here is my post to the Ms blog:

    Really, Ms? You’re going to give voice to this anti-feminist screed? OK, fine, then let’s break it down:

    1) 87% of murderers are biological males;
    2) 99% of rapists are biological males;
    3) Only 16% of Congressional seats are held by women, a number that dropped in 2010 from 17%;
    4) We have yet to elect a woman President or Vice President — 235 years after the Revolution almost 100% of our executives have been white males (Barack Obama, the sole exception, is also male);
    5) The number of rapes that are actually reported continues to hover at about 10%, with only a tiny fraction of those resulting in a conviction;
    6) Women’s right to control our own reproduction is under attack daily from the right wing and has become so bad in recent months that even the mainstream media has begun to comment on the War on Women coming from the right.

    I could go on and on, but do I need to? On Ms? Really?

    Yet you see fit to print this nonsense: “The myth that there is some kind of universal women experience was debunked by women of color, among others, long ago. All of us have different life histories, sexism impacts each of our lives somewhat differently and each of us is privileged in some ways but not others.”

    Our universal experience is that we are biological females and that biological females have been singled out for rape, forced pregnancy, human trafficking for sexual slavery, economic discrimination, political discrimination and a host of other abuses for thousands of years BECAUSE we are biological females living in a patriarchy.

    I don’t want or need a guy in a dress and heels with “gender issues” lecturing to me about how there is no “universal women experience” — he’s not a biological female and not really a woman. My uterus is a universal women’s experience. My vagina is a universal women’s experience. Being targeted for sex-based discrimination is a universal women’s experience that is serious enough and egregious enough that I feel very comfortables, as a multi-racial woman, focusing on sexism and misogyny as a unique form of oppression. I don’t need my experience as a woman to be “transplained” to me by some arrogant, self-important dude.


  21. [...] Do Lesbians Not See How the Political Transgender Community Does Not Care About Female [...]


  22. If only these people would spend a bit more time reading what we say and trying to learn from it, rather than thinking that they always need to speak over us with their own brilliant ideas. Of course, that is the traditional male argumentative tactic, so maybe this is only a pipe dream.


  23. Oh, brilliant ideas should have been “brilliant ideas.” My bad. I hope they don’t read my previous post and get any bright ideas!

  24. GallusMag Says:

    I love how he says towards the end of the piece (but before his pro-active grammar lesson for the laydees) that female/feminist “rhetoric” vis a vis Gender has “mellowed somewhat over the years”. Because as far as I can see, even the fun fems are becoming TOTALLY FED UP with the anti-female male-supremacist transgender political movement. And Gays and Lesbians are TOTALLY FED UP with the homophobia of the trans political movement. So much for “mellowing”. Try an impending explosion of resistance instead.

  25. RoseVerbena Says:

    Still awaiting moderation:

    Feminism is about seeking equality FOR WOMEN. It is not about seeking equality FOR MEN because the patriarchy already hands each male a HUGE load of male privilege at birth. For example: women had to go to prison, get sexually assaulted, get beaten, have their kids taken away from them, be disowned by their families, get locked up in mental hospitals, go on hunger strikes, work tirelessly and still die in poverty to get the VOTE for women over 140 years after the American Revolution gave American men a say in their own government. We’re still working and fighting to have anything even close to 50% representation in self-governance and our gains are under constant attack by reactionaries and conservatives. Is this news to young “feminists”?!? Feminism isn’t about making men feel comfortable and happy with their “choices” vis gender — it’s about SMASHING the patriarchy and ending the sexist oppression of females based on our sex — an oppression in which we HAVE NO CHOICE.

  26. GallusMag Says:

    From the Ms. Facebook page:

    Joelle Ruby Ryan is the guy who teaches “Women’s Studies” at the University of New Hampshire and posted a link to this anti-female post on his twitter the other day:

    http://transgendertropes.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/transgender-trope-10-defining-men-and-women-by-sex-reduces-us-to-nothing-more-than-genitals/#comment-82

    When I tweeted to ask him why he felt female biological reality was problematic he accused me of “harassing” him. And of course did not answer the query. And he is actually TEACHING women’s studies!

  27. jen Says:

    I posted the following two comments on the Ms. site:

    First, in response to “Toni,” who claimed that “False rape charges, family law, anti-pornography and anti-prostitution legislation” oppress men:

    Excuse me? How are men are oppressed by anti-porn and anti-prostitution legislation? Toni doesn’t even bother to argue for the “agency” of female sex workers but actually claims that MEN are oppressed if they don’t have access to the commodity of female bodies. Am I on a feminist website, or is this a Men’s Rights Activism or Pick-Up Artist forum?

    Somehow I doubt that Toni preaches this “everyone oppresses everyone” gospel on UAW or NAACP forums.

    I also posted:

    The claim that there is no universal female experience because not all biological females menstruate or have uteri is like saying that humans are not bipedal because some people are born without legs. Whether or not individual females menstruate or reproduce, it is women’s reproductive capacity that men exploit as the basis of patriarchy.

    Millions of women the world over suffer without help from “silent epidemics” including fistula, pelvic organ prolapse and the terrorism of forced pregnancy. Besides using females’ reproductive biology to keep them in line, medicine continues to treat women’s bodies as alien, inferior territory. Despite this, trans women like Toni and Julia Serano would have us believe that biological females as a sexual class do not exist. They would not dare to erase the physical reality of the male sex as they do that of women.

    Their pomo gibberish is anti-feminist and misogynist in the extreme.

    I’m stunned by the libfems there like Lysana in response to BadDyke:

    How dare you reduce women to biology? The feminism I learned was meant to help us all transcend assigned roles due to birth status. I am sick of so-called feminists using the master’s tools to pick and choose which women they support.

    The libfems appear to take their immediate first world material comfort as evidence that patriarchy no longer oppresses women on the basis of their biology. This is ironic, since they are so fond of accusing second-wavers and radfems and of racism (as if there are no radfems of color).

    As far as Lysana’s “pick and choose” stuff goes, why are libfems so eager to prioritize trans women over lesbians, when lesbians’ concerns have been erased from LGBT and feminist organizations? Lesbians have always fought for ALL women’s rights. Where is the gratitude, and why are lesbians erased from libfem blogs in favor of gay men and trans women?

    I think we’re already seeing that trans people who adhere to the stereotypes of their adopted gender are more acceptable to the media than butch lesbians are.

    • GallusMag Says:

      “How dare you reduce women to biology?”
      I AM SO SICK of the UTTER FEMALE-HATRED expressed by the idea that acknowledging that female and male are SEX descriptors equates to the idea that female HUMANS are nothing more than reproductive organs:
      http://transgendertropes.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/transgender-trope-10-defining-men-and-women-by-sex-reduces-us-to-nothing-more-than-genitals/

    • jen Says:

      Some smart aleck responded to my second post:

      “The claim that there is no universal female experience because not all biological females menstruate or have uteri is like saying that humans are not bipedal because some people are born without legs.”

      No, it’s like saying that the experience of having legs is not a universal human experience, because some humans don’t have legs.

      I was really disturbed by the way the libfem commenters kept repeating “no universal female experience” like a mantra. Aren’t experiences that are nearly universal enough to organize around?

      I really don’t get the eagerness of the libfems to appease the transgender borg. Is it the need to be liked, to be seen as nice, to fit in with the liberal crowd?

  28. yttik Says:

    Incredible. MS mag has just continued to disappoint me. First they put a male presidential candidate in a teeshirt that says, “this is what a feminist looks like,” endorsing him over the first viable female candidate in 200 years, and now they present Serano as some sort of expert on feminism.

    MS Mag should let me know when they’re ready to let women be part of the women’s movement again and I’ll think about subscribing.


    • Yes, the ‘irony’ of promoting a male-as-feminist over the first viable FEMALE candidate is astounding. And has their endorsed candidate produced the feminist goods? Nope.

      We are basically witnessing the point in time where Ms Mag becomes offically pro-tranz. They are just testing the waters of their readership to find out what percentage believe the trans delusion and those who don’t. But the writing is on the wall anyway, having Serano write an article for them. It’s only a matter of time before FABs become the online punching-bags for M2Ts at Ms Mag, just like at the UK’s F-Word where FABs are now second class citizens.

      Sing along with me “another one bites the dust, and another one down and another one down…”

  29. BadDyke Says:

    I was reading the above, and the Ms posts, then turned to my TV to see a news report about women in Pakistan having their faces and bodies destroyed by acid thrown at them as punishment by men. Yeah, tell them that classification of people based on their SEX isn’t politically relevant.

    And that here in the rich west, we’re spending our time and money training plastic surgeons who then make loads of money trying to work out how best to create a simulacrum of a vagina inside a male body, rather than working out how to give them back a face. They’d quite rightly turn away in despair — except women there haven’t lost the plot, they’re still fighting, and they know who the real enemy is.

    That’s feminism, not the pseudo-intellectual pomo crap that comes out on the Ms site. In the real blood and pain and suffering of women, not the gender anxieties and ‘sufferings’ of transwomen who get a scar on their soul (sorry, something linked to on another blog that I can’t find now) when someone in McDonalds smirks at them………………………..

  30. BadDyke Says:

    Fantasy future:

    Access to abortion and contraception eroded, womens health issues ignored, the glass ceiling still in place……………

    Why did this happen? Well, we were going to have a protest, but then the transfeminists and fun-fems got a bit stuck designing their banner, because someone pointed out that ‘a woman’s right to choose’ is transphobic, and ‘pre-menopausal female-bodied human beings with a uterus and a fully-functioning reproductive system’s right to choose wouldn’t FIT, and then a transman that had wandered in objected anyway and said that he still had a uterus and had given birth, but it was a MALE uterus cos he is a man………….. and then anyway, everyone had to go and protest about the transwoman who’d been so WOUNDED because the nasty cis-privilged cis-woman behind the counter flipping burgers had REFUSED to give them extra onions and given them a funny look as she gave them their change……………well, we had to have PRIORITIES, didn’t we, we couldn’t just IGNORE our poor oppressed trans-sisters……………..

    Anyone who can come up with a good joke based on trans-sisters versus transisters gets a free burger (with extra onions).

    • Darcie Says:

      LOL! …and then they gave in and called it the Everyone Movement, but someone in the crowd had had too many burgers and not enough fiber and wasn’t able to have a movement, and that was just insensitive…

    • Cheryl Says:

      Transistors/trans-sisters…

      Trans-sisters are better binary switchers.

      ***************
      ‘Cause, you know, they are so totally the best at everything, evah!11!!! Not so good when you have to explain a joke, is it? Oh, well, it’s late, that’s the best I could do, plus I may have a cold coming on, plus other stuff.

      Still, I hope they don’t completely miss the sarcasm and think of that as a compliment.

  31. Bev Jo Says:

    I have never trusted or liked Ms. Magazine. When I would try to read it, I just had to stop — besides the horribly liberalizing of feminism, they regularly printed fiction filled with het porn. Clearly it was aimed at professional het women and housewives. But still….this is on a whole other level. A shock, really.

    Oh, “Oppression Olympics”and “pity parties” is a dead give-away that the writer has reactionary, right wing politics, as we have seen with some pseudo-feminists who try to stop any discussion of oppression and privilege among us. You know this is a privileged person when oppression is a joke and they use ridicule to stop what used to be commonly known feminism.

    But suddenly this fucker wants women to care about HIS illusionary oppression?

    It’s more important than ever to refuse to give them any tiny bit of support for their female-hatred. That means do not accept them as women in any form. Please do not call them “trans women” or give them our pronouns. Fight this every time and every place it appears. If we don’t, we have lost, because feminists are then publicly acknowledging they are women, so what is our complaint? These men are not women and will never be women. Please, please to not give them credibility and what they most crave. Just like we never accept their calling us “cis.”

    Yes, it is Mr. Serano. And he is our enemy.

  32. Bev Jo Says:

    Nice to see Kelsey’s written. She’s is a young feminist who I’ve met recently in fb Feminist groups and who seems to have a good heart and courage.

    I’ll go check it out to see what to post and will report back. It is so nice to see all of your outraged responses here to know that there really are a lot of us who support women against these most disgusting of men.

  33. Bev Jo Says:

    I just tried posting this:

    I am a Lifelong Lesbian and have been a Radical Lesbian Feminist since 1970. One of our ongoing struggles has been to have a small bit of space just for women, away from men and their female-hatred, Lesbian-hatred and prurience. But some men found a very clever way of intruding and not taking “no” for an answer — they claim/appropriate/fetishize our identity.

    Now is the point at which the followers of the trans cult will start yelling “transphobic,” and use classism to say I need “educating.” But I am not “phobic” or afraid of men claiming our identity — I am oppressed by them. And I am well-educated in watching how they hate and try to define us out of existence for 42 years.

    Any oppressed group has the right to say no to the presence of their oppressor, yet somehow women are denied this. And our very few remaining resources in the vast female-hating patriarchy, such as women’s studies classes and now Ms. Magazine have been appropriated by men.

    For women who support these men, if it was that they truly were men wanting access to women and stealing our identity, what would it look and sound like? Would it be, to quote “Julie Serano:” “My penis is more powerful than the cocks of a million alpha-males, all put together.”
    (Can you get more male than that?)

    Would it mean being threatened to be raped, have your clitoris cut off, and be murdered? Those are threats I’ve gotten from men claiming to be women, and every single feminist I know who has written in defense of female identity has gotten similar threats. (I have NEVER been threatened by women). Would it be to have one of these men who is fully able-bodied, to also appropriate disabled Lesbian identity by using a wheelchair and going to the Dyke March with a sign saying “Differently-abled Dyke,” and making his wheelchair fall over to get sympathy from Lesbians? Of course his “trans-paraplegia” is real — he speaks of coveting his aunt’s leg braces when he was a boy.

    I know most women value men way more than other women, but to accept them as women when their male entitlement and hatred of women reeks from them is a mystery. At what point will women be horrified enough at these men and say no to them — say no to them threatening us, calling us “cis,” defining real women out of existence, telling us we are “transphobic” because we do not want to give them sexual access to us.

    At what point do you clearly recognize “trans women” for what they are: Not women in any way, but simply men who are more female-hating than most men and who fetishize and caricaturize women. Say no to them and see what happens. Seriously — try it and find out. And what do we call men who will not take “no” for an answer?

  34. cherryblossomlife Says:

    I have lived in many countries and have ALWAYS found a commonality with other women in those various cultures, as well as in my own. Growing up as a woman gives you a sense of collective identity with other women that men like Serano can never even begin to imagine.

    And when men attempt to deny this collective identity (as they invariably do, no matter their politics) it strikes me as jealousy on their part. I’ve seen them do this a lot, they seem to be frightened to death at the thought of women bonding with each other based on our sex. Serano is typical of all men in this respect.
    It’s always been strikingly obvious that men don’t immediately share an identity with other men, unless that man happens to be into the same hobby as him: football, fishing, pretending to be a woman etc. THat’s why it’s so easy for them to make war on other cultures. In many cases, men can only bond with each other THROUGH targeting another group with hate or violence. M2Ts certainly bond over their common hatred of women. That is clear.

    And if you’re a mother, that shared identity increases a thousandfold. As Ann Oakley said, “motherhood is a great leveller among women.”

  35. fmnst Says:

    Unrelated news flash!

    Come on over to Huffington Post…
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/20/pregnant-man-divorce-thom_n_1441056.html?ref=mostpopular

    to read the comments about the “pregnant man” “Thomas Beattie” and her divorce.

    It’s amazing. The comments are about 90% “she was never a man!”

    It will do your radfem hearts good to read this overwhelming skepticism about trans.

    Such a joy and breath of fresh air.

    This is not to say I’m glady they are breaking up, especially given there are kids involved.

    I am just very happy (and surprised!) to see so many openly stating they don’t buy into the trans lies, and thought all of you might be as well, too.

  36. Bev Jo Says:

    That’s great news, fmnst! I keep thinking that most women just do not believe the trans cult crap. It’s more likely to be pseudo-feminists who respond to our politics being used against us and the guilt-tripping. Otherwise, it is SO obvious. Like the “trans-paraplegic.” No one responds when I bring him up, yet he is only the next fetish along for a typical M2T.

    Meanwhile, here’s what I posted at Ms. (or tried to.) My other one made it, but no real response. One idiot explained that “trans women” are women because “women” is in the name, so I answered….

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    April 20, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    The word “woman” is in “trans women” because men put it there. They also call real women “cis.” They call us “cunts” too. It doesn’t mean we have to accept it.

    Anyone who is willing to think outside of the trans cult for even a moment can see how outrageous this all is. Of course many men want access to Lesbians. They don’t give up much really, do they? Many had full het male privilege for decades as husbands and fathers. Few get surgery. Perhaps they are obsessed with “lesbian” porn that men make for men. Or they are just narcissistic like the able-bodied man who claims to be paraplegic and Lesbian. (No response about him?)

    It’s not really our job to explain one more male fetish that harms women and Lesbians. Real feminism is concerned about real women, who are the majority of the population, and who are primarily class-oppressed and from all backgrounds. Even just the focus on making a few very privileged men more important reveals what the trans cult is all about.

    If you want to read outside the trans cult (if you are not afraid of the threats and insults for refusing to keep obeying the men), then you could see more of what I mean with my articles at my blog

    http://bevjoradicallesbian.wordpress.com/

    And then of course Gallus Mag’s brilliant ongoing posts at

    http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/


  37. They have not approved this comment of mine and yet have other approved other comments of mine and others. This in response to:

    “You seem to be under the impression that all lesbians are cisgender women who have cissexual bodies? What gives you that impression, exactly? ”

    “Just because one identifies as something doesn’t make it so. If a Caucasian person starts saying they “identify as” a Native American, what does that even mean? “

  38. Old Music Says:

    All my comments have got through, I think it’s great that we’re just ‘allowed’ to say this stuff on a mainstream feminist blog (unlike, say, the UK F-Word, which operated absolute censorship) – it’s there for women to see and think about and come to their own conclusions.

  39. Ashland Avenue Says:

    My comments have been published, shockingly enough. I made several more today that are in moderation – if they don’t go through, I’ll post them here instead.


  40. “I was really disturbed by the way the libfem commenters kept repeating “no universal female experience” like a mantra. ”

    It is a mantra, like all the other buzzwords and phrases they use – no proper thought or real analysis behind it.

    Just think, by that line of reasoning there is no “universal black experience” therefore no such thing as racism and no need for any anti-racist organisation. No “universal gay experience” therefore no such thing as homophobia or need for any campaigns around this. No “universal disabled experience” therefore no such thing as disability discrimination …. etc etc.

    Oh yes, and certainly no “universal trans experience”, therefore problem solved, right ??

  41. ? Says:

    I googled “Ms Magazine Serano comments” and this blog was the first hit and then several other links in which trans supporters are calling people who disagree with Transsexual theory ‘radscum’- Why is believing in biological reality considered ‘radical’ these days?

  42. ibleedpurple Says:

    What I found especially disgusting is that we are the ones being accused of racism and every other evil that they might think up, HOWEVER, little Toni (oh, and Valerie!) over at Ms. is allowed to claim that men oppress women, blacks oppress whites etc. (because it all comes down to numbers and never has there been a minority that oppressed a majority) and engage in harmful relativism to his heart’s content and the vast majority of posters do not even bat an eyelash and are more concerned with our horrible transphobia. And that little scumbag only seems to respond to us because we are the “right” targets because we were critical.

    Seriously, fuck you all. (Apologies to those queer/libfems who stood against him.)

  43. Bev Jo Says:

    That’s a good point. Makes as much sense as calling the right wing (republicans and nazis) “conservatives,” which is a favorite media ploy. It’s more patriarchal media mind-fuck. Refusing to be bullied into believing grotesquely male men are now women isn’t radical at all. I keep seeing non-feminists being more clear about recognizing men as men than many liberal “feminists.” The reaction is like seeing a dog put into a tutu and saying “This ballerina will perform in Swan Lake next week.” It’s just ridiculous.

    But calling any of us who dare to risk death threats by saying no to these men “rad scum” continues the lie that it takes a rare radical to confront them. It is just common sense, but their entire method of conning is to convince women against their common sense.

    By the way, how do het men react to this? Do any consider the transvestites claiming our identity as “women?” I notice it’s only Lesbians and Radical Feminists they stalk and harass for not obeying them.


  44. [...] lot of those topics are of no interest to transwomen, and have their roots in the unique reproductive vulnerabilities of being born [...]

  45. june Says:

    I stopped reading when you called her a he.

  46. KittyBarber Says:

    Perfect, right? Now if everyone who claims to know anything about GT but doesn’t read it–somewhat like all those who call Mary Daly (and many others) ‘transphobic’ and who have never read her work, either–would just step forward and admit your wilfull ignorance, we’d know where to begin. But when one’s life is based on deceit, that must be pretty hard to do.
    In the end, the truth will win.


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