FTM detransitioning experience—quitting “T” and getting back to life as a woman

April 25, 2012

Guest Post by Violet Irene.

To those who are looking for this information because you are wondering if you made a mistake starting “T” and are looking for guidance: know that you are NOT alone. Even if the people on the FTM forums say it’s incredibly rare and basically no one does this, that is NOT TRUE. I personally know a TON of women who took T and then for a variety of reasons changed their minds and went back to living as women. Some identify as lesbians, some are bi, some are straight. Some look butch, some look androgynous, some look completely “average” for their community and assimilated. Personally I identify as a bi-dyke and while no one is ever surprised to learn the “dyke” part, because it’s who I am and I don’t try to hide it, I also pass for just a matronly sensible feminist mom type too and no one would ever know I had spent time IDing as FTM unless I told them. If you want to stay more androgynous more power to you, but if that is NOT what you want, don’t feel like you have to! It was hard emotionally figuring everything out but pretty much as soon as I wanted people to see me as a woman again, it didn’t take much to get that.

I just want you to know you are NOT ALONE and you do NOT have to hate or blame yourself or feel like a freak or an outcast. You still have options. You still have a future. The rest of your life is waiting for you, there is ALWAYS hope. I thought I had ruined my life but now I have a beautiful family and amazing friends and a happy life and things DID get better. Hang in there—you’re strong and BRAVE—it takes so much courage to face yourself with the idea “I made a big mistake”–and you can make it through this terrifying moment.

And a disclaimer: I took testosterone for less than a year, so if you took it a lot longer, the effects may take longer to reverse for you. On the other hand, they might not take that much longer at all. Every body is different, some respond really strongly to female hormones or male hormones or both, etc. All the advice and experience here is just about what I lived through, I don’t claim to represent a universal or scientifically validated “what to expect.” Take it for what it’s worth because there’s not a lot out there. I hope others who have been through this will feel emboldened to come forward, too, with their unique experience. Also, I did not have any surgeries. I got pregnant less than a year after quitting T, and that I am sure had some influence over how the physical changes went for me, too. I quit T seven years ago as of today, spring 2012 (so I quit in 2005).

So physically, about three weeks after my last dose of T (I had been taking injections at the standard dose every 2 weeks) I started to feel hormonally weird, like a really strong PMS. This intensified over about the next month, as my ovaries got back into gear and produced I am sure a lot more hormones than usual to try to balance me back out. I felt every symptom you can think of associated with both PMS and menopause—hot flashes, sweats, crying jags, nausea, itchy skin, cramps, and migraine headaches. This was the really rough part because I was also struggling a lot with the emotional implications of what was going on. About 2 months after the last shot, I had a period. I then had another regular period the next month, and in general things started to even out at that point.

Let me warn you about that first couple of periods—they were really, really painful and intense. I think this has to do with the fact that your body has to overproduce the female hormones to bring things back into alignment, but I don’t know. I got a prescription strength NSAID from my doctor and that helped a lot. After that, my periods were like they have always been—bad but not horror show worthy.

About the time I got my period, my breasts started to look more like they used to. “T” had made them kind of deflated and floppy. At this point, they started to plump back up and eventually went completely back to normal. The facial and body hair that I had gotten on “T” stayed put, but the growth noticeably slowed down within about 5 months of quitting. I still grow hair in places I didn’t before (ie some patches on my wrists and thighs) but within a year-ish it was no longer coming in dark and coarse like male hair, but had changed to fine and light like the body hair I have everywhere else. My “beard” ditto—it changed over to that downy, fine stuff most women grow especially as we get older, with the odd darker, wiry hair. Because I prefer not to be scrutinized for it, I shave it off with an electric razor about every couple of weeks.

My voice was lower on T but I think not as low as it would have gotten. For a long time after quitting, I was stuck with a kind of awkward register, with a break in it so I had trouble singing. I couldn’t sing high, I couldn’t sing low, I had to cough and clear my throat to cover for some pretty awkward sounds when singing. When talking I just had to watch that I stayed in my mid-register for a while, going higher or lower would make me sound like a teenage boy. They SAY that never changes back, and maybe it doesn’t always. For me, though, while I don’t have the same voice I had before T, it sounds a lot higher and more decidedly female now than it did right after I quit. And the break went away. Because I love music, I kind of nurtured my singing voice until I got a normal low-alto that doesn’t break or crack anymore. Lower than average but not unheard of for a woman. I still sometimes get misgendered on the phone when I am trying to sound serious (so talking very low and authoritative) but I just correct them and try not to dwell on it.

When I was on T I had a lot of problems with my sinuses and blood pressure going up when I was stressed. The sinus problem cleared within two weeks of quitting. The blood pressure thing took longer.

If you’re hoping to have a baby, this is my experience on that. I got pregnant about 5 months after stopping T, after three normal periods. I “charted” my cycle to know when I was ovulating but that’s it. Stopping T can actually make you REALLY fertile as your body cranks out extra estrogen to compensate, so if you are active with men and don’t want to be pregnant, be REALLY careful. I chose not to tell my midwives about what I had been through. It was just too hard. If you want to disclose, please be careful and have outside support, because a lot of medical professionals WILL treat you differently or like you are crazy. It sucks but that’s reality. I learned the hard way, with a counselor and a doctor. You can seek out professionals who work in the lesbian community and sometimes, but not always, they will be more sensitive. Or you can keep it secret, because once your system has cleared the hormones it’s hard to say if there’s any lingering effect they need to know about. I had a normal pregnancy and a natural delivery. We had one unusual kind of complication happen, it wasn’t of consequence long term and we are fine now, but it is one that women with PCOS are at higher risk for so I did wonder if it had anything to do with the androgens that had been in my system before I conceived. I tortured myself about that, but since my child is fine now I have to just put it in the column of “if I had known differently, I would have done differently” and forgive myself. I didn’t have that problem with my next pregnancy. I was able to breastfeed normally and breastfed my baby exclusively for many months.

The hair on my head took a long time to get back to normal, oddly enough. I had a crewcut when I was trying to pass as male, and when I decided to quit it was important to me to start growing it out right away. It took a long time. I’ve had short cuts since then, while on my natural hormones, and before that, and they all grew out a lot faster. On T my hairline had started to recede just slightly, yes even after less than a year. So it grew back really, really slowly. If I’d thought about it back then, I would have tried taking some vitamins and using jojoba oil shampoo—those can both help a lot to bump along the female pattern hairgrowth as it comes in.

People say that when you quit “T” your sex drive will shrivel, but I didn’t find that to be the case. Once my female hormones were up and running I felt just fine, and still do. Everything went back to the way it was before as far as my personal odor and my vulva and so forth, too. Some sources claim it will be harder to orgasm when you quit T but I didn’t find that to be an issue at all.

My face softened up again within a couple of months, and my hips padded back out too. I may have lost muscle mass but if I did, it wasn’t noticeable, I stayed active and that was good enough.

I hypothesize that a lot of why things went back quickly for me was my cycles started up, so I was getting bathed in the normal levels of female hormones right away. If you have trouble getting your cycles back, I would advise that you see an endocrinologist or gyn about it because that’s going to help a lot. Maybe birth control pills could help, if nothing else.

7 years down the line the only evidence I ever took T is stuff only I would notice, like some body hair that wasn’t there before but which has lightened and softened up, a little extra soft facial down, and a slightly lower vocal range.

Social, emotional, and practical thoughts:

This part is where your mileage may really vary from mine. I’m not telling you what to do, just what worked for me.

It was important to me to immediately stop being seen as a guy or a trans person. I wanted to know that I COULD go back to how I was before, I was terrified that I had ruined parts of myself that were really important to me. I feared that I was locked out of “women” forever. I went through the seven stages of grief, for what it’s worth, and still to this day have feelings of essentially having survived a loss and a trauma. This is a big deal, so be kind and gentle to yourself.

In the “bargaining” and denial phase one thing I said to myself and others was “I don’t really care what I am seen as, I’m neither male nor female, call me whatever you want.” You might go through a stage like this too. It’s ok to then move on and say “no, really, I DO care.” You’re not “selling out.” You’re coming to terms.

I went and bought some really fancy, padded, push-up bras. For me, this was really helpful while my breasts were still really flaccid. It gave me the shape I was used to seeing before, and helped people realize that despite some androgynous traits, I am a woman. If you have had surgery or have very small breasts, you might consider going to a lingerie shop that helps women who have had breast surgery or masectomy, if you think this might help you.

I found it was helpful to immediately purge some clothing and accessories that I especially associated with “trying to pass as male,” like double-reinforced sports bras, baseball caps, etc. It’s not that those are male clothes—clothes are just clothes—but it was about what they meant to me. Getting rid of them and replacing them helped me feel more confident that I was really going to be able to come home. I do find that a lot of FTMs rely heavily on things like baseball caps to help them pass as male, too, so taking off the hat can help people see you better too.

It was helpful to me to dress more “feminine” than I otherwise might have, for a while, to get some confidence that I was going to still be “allowed” to be a woman in society. After a while, I felt assured enough I could wear more casual clothes like I usually do again, but that phase was helpful to get me out of despair. Once my hair grew out I kind of ended up using it as my crutch, to the point where I surprised myself by completely emotionally freaking out the next time I got it cropped short for the summer. Just something to prepare for, if you might be like me. That and a few other things are basically trauma triggers for me, if I am confronted with unexpected reminders of that phase of my life, I can have an emotional reaction that is rather overwhelming. No one warned me to expect this, but it seems pretty logical to me now that I think about it.

Another thing that helped me feel more “in control” of the kind of chaotic situation was learning to recognize the hormonal patterns in my body using fertility charting (aka natural family planning or fertility awareness method.) You can find books or web info on this.

I don’t feel like I can advise on handling the social aspects because I don’t know that I handled it well. I just survived through pure stubbornness. I told my mom and we cried together. She had always felt it was wrong and disturbing, my dad had always been all for it and relished bragging how he had a “son.” He pretty much wouldn’t speak to me after I went back. Other than that, I didn’t announce anything except to friends who I chatted with online. I just changed my name back, changed my presentation back, and basically gave off “FU” vibes that made it clear no one should dare to give me shit about it or ask any questions. I know a lot of people in my family decided at that point I was truly crazy, disgusting, depraved, and have treated me like garbage ever since—not surprising since a lot of the same folks were homophobes to start with. My really good friends I was able, eventually, to really talk to, and they stood by me. Pretty much all my other friends ESPECIALLY those from the genderqueer and queer political circles—I lost them. Slowly, painfully. They weren’t interested in me, they were interested in The Trans Show and once it was over, they were out.

I was called some horrible names and yes, threatened and told that I was an evil person, that I should kill myself, that I was a menace. Not by fundamentalists…by “queer radicals.” And some people claiming to be feminists. I don’t talk about this much unless I can be anonymous, as a result.

It was hard going from being essentially invisible in a good way, passing as a male, to being seen as a woman again, dealing with street harassment, having guys basically try to shoulder and elbow their way through me, having to fight to get my whole seat on the train, etc. I do still feel some grief, pain, and a lot of anger, about the freedom I lost and the fact that women are not yet free.

I haven’t really gotten into why I started T or why I went back, maybe we can talk about that another time. But this is a sample of what the experience was like, for one person. If you are looking for advice, please just listen to this: no matter what the specifics of your situation are, you can survive this. This is going to be a strange, scary rebirth. But you will make it. A day will come where you don’t think about it everyday anymore, every time you look in the mirror or sign a check. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other, and if a day is too much to take at a time, take it an hour at a time. Make a list of things to do and get the little rush from crossing out each item on the list. Write a rant and post it online. Pet a dog or a cat. My dog saved me, again and again, because she didn’t see the clothes or the labels, she just loved me. Eventually it WILL get easier, and before you know it, you will be OK.

.

81 Responses to “FTM detransitioning experience—quitting “T” and getting back to life as a woman”

  1. RoseVerbena Says:

    Thank you for your very touching post. I am in awe of your courage and honesty. If you write more later, I would love to understand better why you wanted to transition in the first place and what motivated you later to detransition — how you see it all from a distance, as it were, with the perspective that only time can provide.

    • Violet Irene Says:

      Thank you. I have been thinking of writing about the “whys” also, as indeed it took years before I started to get any real insight around that beyond some of the more obvious social pressure factors. I am kind of baffled by my initial choice to transition, in retrospect, because from the moment I first heard of the idea up through the moment I decided to “detransition” I consistently was skeptical of it, questioned a lot of the trans agenda, didn’t relate to other “transmen,” and in general felt negatively about a lot of it. So why did I do it? I have only just now started to figure that out, and it’s complicated.

  2. MNDR Says:

    Thank you for this. I’m not much of a writer but this has inspired me to write down my story in the hope it might find somebody who needs it. I felt so hopeful reading what you wrote, Violet.


    • I would be happy if your story is also published. Since I know two people personally who stopped transition I know that there are people out there who need help by doing this. Such stories can be helpful and let people know that they are not alone with their struggles.

    • Violet Irene Says:

      Thank you. I also feel strongly that as many of us as possible should share our experiences with this. There is NO information out there, save a couple of lonely web posts and YouTube videos. If you go to any “genderqueer” forum they will give you tons of misinformation or outright try to talk you out of detransitioning. There is a lot of scare tactic misinformation, too. And then most medical professionals don’t know, don’t care, and aren’t even really safe to talk to in the first place about this. Anyway, I really want to hear your story!

      • GallusMag Says:

        I have bookmarked a number of detransitioning sites over the years- most of them are gone due to the incredible shunning and harassment people have received. I believe the number of detransitioners is very very high. More than 30%. Maybe more than 50%. Perhaps even higher. Of course these people are shunned and silenced and called “failed to launch” or “not really trans” or “failed the real-life test” or whatever cultic in-group/out-group terms.

  3. BadDyke Says:

    Yes, thank you as well.

    What I personally found quite shocking was the statement:

    “…my dad had always been all for it and relished bragging how he had a “son.” He pretty much wouldn’t speak to me after I went back.”

    Which just says to me, he thought what he was getting after transition was better (a son), than what he’d had before. Whether or not that was the truth in your case (I don’t want to mis-interpret YOUR experience, just say what I thought after reading it), personally I’ve come across the male attitude many times, that a son is somehow better or more valued that a daughter. Certainly how I always felt right up until the day my Dad died, as to how he felt about me. I suspect that transitioning to ‘a son’ would have been preferable for him, compared to my ‘failure’ as a proper daughter.

    “Pretty much all my other friends ESPECIALLY those from the genderqueer and queer political circles—I lost them. Slowly, painfully. They weren’t interested in me, they were interested in The Trans Show and once it was over, they were out.”

    Yeah, you leave the ‘cult’, and as we all know from other cults, the prospect of loosing all your new friends can often be a big disincentive for people to leave — and in other cults, they make sure you know that if you express any doubts.

    If the trans cult was REALLY interested in gender and peoples issues with gender, as they claim, then they’d be interested and supportive of those who turn back, as well as those who ‘go all the way’.

    • Violet Irene Says:

      Yeah my dad’s reactions have been very weird. When I was very young, I was his “little buddy” and he loved to project his own interests onto me. When I went through puberty, suddenly I was evil, everything I did he saw as a personal attack or “rebellion” even though I was a quiet, studious kid. I just was different from what he expected or wanted. He also started to very obviously objectify me and made me uncomfortable a lot in that way. When I came out (as lesbian then bi) he acted disgusted despite supposedly being such a liberal. But when I announced I was “trans” he treated me with a warmth that I hadn’t experienced since I was 8 years old. He told me he had “always known” when I was a kid that I was really a boy in a girl’s body. (That really added to my confusion as you can imagine.) He yelled at family members who expressed doubt or concern. Even though I was with a man and that made me “a gay man” he was all warmth and acceptance and basically angling for PFLAG dad of the year award. Constantly crowed about how pleased he was with “all my sons.” Told me he was proud of me, of my writing, of everything I did. I was starved for that, having been a hard-working ambitious girl and young woman and getting slammed by him at every turn for years.

      It brought us close again in a way that had been yanked away from me when I was a scared little kid. That was hard to deal with especially when it went away again.

      And my “trans” phase started when my granddad was dying, I made my announcement just a few weeks after his funeral. Granddad had been like a father to me, helped to raise me for a while when my parents were overwhelmed, had filled some huge shoes in my life. I realize now that my brother and I both in our own ways tried to “become” Granddad after his death–my bro wore his old clothes and took on mannerisms and hobbies, I tried to become the “oldest son” that everyone had wanted. Very sad, in retrospect, but at the time I had NO clue that could be a factor.

      • RoseVerbena Says:

        I was the third daughter and my father was getting so desperate for a son that he and my mother named me after my paternal grandfather. I remember when my brother was born how HAPPY it made both of them to FINALLY have the son they both wanted all along. I was made to feel from a very early age (three?) that my being born a girl was an unfortunate mistake that they would have taken back if only they could, almost an embarrassment — like a bad smell that no one spoke about. In fact, they also named my brother after my paternal grandfather, as if to erase altogether the mistake that was me.

        I never held it against him and we were best buddies until he died decades later, but the hurt of not being good enough for my parents strictly based on my biological sex continues to this day. I was sure when my brother died that both of them would have much preferred that it had been me who died instead of him — a thousand-fold.

        That is the kind of pain that men in a patriarchal world almost never experience — they have no frame of reference for decades of devastating emotional rejection by the people who should love you the most, strictly based on your DNA, the building blocks of your physical self, something that you have no control over and can never change, can never “do better” in order to finally win their love and acceptance.

        Every time I hear of another family doing to same to another female I feel sick with rage and sorrow all over again. I am not a mistake and neither are you. We are precious gifts given to people who are, unfortunately, too blinded by our patriarchal culture to see our true beauty and worth as human beings.

  4. yttik Says:

    Wow, powerful story.

    I loved this part, “My dog saved me, again and again, because she didn’t see the clothes or the labels, she just loved me.” If we could just get people to view themselves as dogs view them, life would be so much better. Dogs just deliver unconditional love and acceptance of who you really are, which is something I wish we could all learn to do.

  5. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you so much, Violet Irene, for telling your story, and in such detail. You will literally save women’s lives. It would be wonderful for there to be an anthology of women who left the trans cult and returned home. And also for an anthology of men too. Again, lives would be saved. Such stories should be in libraries everywhere, and especially to be required reading in schools that now push or support transitioning, like in the SF Bay Area.

    And yes, as Bad Dyke, said, your story is also a lesson in how much women are hated or valued less than men.

  6. SheilaG Says:

    Thank you for writing this. I think we really need to be fully informed about this whole transtrending situation. All of this information is not widely known, and think there is just too much of a cavalier attitude toward taking very strong prescription drugs, or in getting drawn into the whole gender ideology medical model.

    It takes courage to reverse something, but also a lot of courage to report that which the trans cult doesn’t want us all to know.

  7. Bev Jo Says:

    Violet, that’s an interesting idea to consider — father changing towards daughters as they reach puberty. My father had seemed ideal when I was little (and I hadn’t know about his betrayal of my mother and his secret other family), but he did get really strange when I hit puberty. It’s like I was clearly female and he said some fairly disgusting things to me which I ignored at the time. I wonder if I had said I was male if he would have been different.

    I’ve seen a documentary where a Lesbian “transitions” seemingly to please her lover and her lover’s parents. Her lover’s father is shown being so relieve that his daughter’s girlfriend has become a “boyfriend.” “Better than being a Lesbian,” he said.

  8. BadDyke Says:

    “father changing towards daughters as they reach puberty.”

    Well, okay when you’re ‘daddys little girl’, but when you hit puberty, then it’s a great big reminder that at some point you’ll probably desert him for another man! He won’t ‘own’ you any more, but have to ‘give you away’ in marriage to another man.

    “but at the time I had NO clue that could be a factor.”

    Yeah, cos the trans cult doesn’t ever seem to discuss the fact that there could be SOCIAL reasons why people might end up considering themselves to be trans, it’s ALL suppposed to be the innate voice in your head, and that must never be questioned or doubted. You are if you say you are, and you’re REALLY a man if you say you are, and it’s NOTHING to do with relations in the family or other events. Being mistaken about being trans, or even de-transitioning never seems to get discussed.


    • ” Being mistaken about being trans, or even de-transitioning never seems to get discussed”

      This is one of the identification marks for a cult:

      ” Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a “covenant” and feel threatened by this.

      more on: http://www.ex-cult.org/General/identifying-a-cult

      Some of these points really describe the trans dogma.

  9. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you for your heartbreaking post Violet Irene, and coming back to your true Female Self, however you express her. You can still be Butch as all get out and be FEMALE…that’s what so many mistake, is that as soon as we’re Butch, we’re no longer in the Female family! B.S., we’ve been around forever, and hopefully around in the future if we don’t buy into ‘well you just want to be a man’, b.s. or that Butches are trans! No, we’re all women!

    In any case, yours is not the first story I’ve heard of detransitioning from FTM, and it won’t be the last….there was one Dyke I met online from a very strong Muslim background, and in Islamic society, there is a precedent(as we know with Iran), that if a woman wants to become a man, and live as a man, that is more approved of, than becoming or being a Lesbian, where they can essentially be put to death for homosexuality.

    So, because of her international status(did not live in U.S., or at least in periods of her life), and because of family and peer pressure, she began to transition to male. We were on a feminist blog/group of one sort or another, and she admitted to me going to a trans conference where backstage another Butch/FTM admitted to her that they missed their breasts…and had doubts about giving up their femaleness, but nonetheless went on stage afterwards with the rah rah rah ‘how great it is to transition to male’….THAT convinced her, and she began reading more and more feminist blogs and began to detransition and consider herself a Dyke once more….

    But eventually she admitted to me that the damage had been done, she had been on ‘T’ and lived as FTM too long, and that she was going back to living as one, though she still felt Female and entirely conflicted. It all was very, very sad.

    I also have a friend of mine who also comes from an Islamic run country, and her mother had several businesses in that country and never approved of her Lesbianism. My friend has been in the States for years, but struggling economically. Her mother offered to pay for the FTM surgeries and to go back to that country and run the family businesses with her as a male, and that as a dude she could date any women she wanted. My pal refused, and told her Mom she DID NOT want to transition, and the mother disowned her!

    This shit and this pressure is REAL, and yes, the trans movement to me is looking more and more like a cult cuz it seems like every 20 something that has a smack of Butchness or wants to escape the Female condition is so ready to jump on the genderqueer/male pronoun/trans/hormones/surgery bandwagon, and plenty of allies, groups, organizations and psychiatrists and doctors ready to assist them in it all..and us Lesbians and Butch Dykes get left behind in the dirt!
    -In Butch DykeAmazon Sisterhood,
    -FeistyAmazon

  10. FeistyAmazon Says:

    P.S. you probably saved many years of your life as well, getting off of ‘T’!

  11. GallusMag Says:

    I’ve heard from a number of people that those first few periods are SO HORRIBLE. And seen some online people go back to T because of it- thinking they “forgot” how horrible menstruating was, but not realizing the effects were temporarily intensified by hormone rebound. Such good information to get out there.

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Yes, thank you for helping to get the word out, GM. Hormones can make us feel so terrible when they’re in flux.

      I am in peri-menopause and after many months of no period I had another last week. The week preceding I felt HORRIBLE — almost crushed with rolling waves of queasiness, bad insomnia, waves of gastric distress, bouts of depressed feelings bordering on hopelessness. I couldn’t figure out what was wrong — was I getting the flu, had I accidentally eaten something toxic, was I ever going to be able to sleep more than four hours at a stretch…what?!?

      Then I saw the first blood and a light bulb went off: “Oh, it’s my darn hormones wreaking havoc again.” I had been six or seven months without a period and I had somehow forgotten how bad it could be when the hormones are in play. Once I knew what it was I felt quite relieved. It was the fear of the unknown that made it so much worse.

      Women coming off of T need to know that it’s temporary, that things will settle down within a few weeks to months, that it really will be OK once they come out the other side.

      • Darcie Says:

        I’m 37 and going into premature menopause (just like Mom) and women coming off T also need to monitor other drugs they’re taking. My hormone changes have caused sleeplessness, lack of concentration, anxiety attacks and some severe bouts of depression. My depression was made far worse by a drug I had been taking for years without complications. Be particularly cautious of any drugs that may cause suicidal thoughts, even if they’ve never had adverse effects before. Go back and re-read all the information that comes with all prescriptions and for the next few months closely monitor any reactions that seem to be associated when you take your scripts. If this weren’t so taboo in the trans community and the medical industry, these women would have as much information and support coming off T as they had going on it. Shame on the medical industry for not having these discussions with women before, during and after using T.

  12. yttik Says:

    We tend to treat hormones like a harmless, magic pill with no side effects, even though we don’t really have the science to fully understand what we’re doing to people. Long ago I went on birth control pills, partly to regulate my periods, and I wound up in the hospital with a blood clot and several infections. It took nearly a year of fatigue, mono, strep, pneumonia, to recover. It was like my entire immune system collapsed and my whole body staged a revolt.

    I really wish we had a medical establishment that had a better understanding of the power of hormones and how many different systems in your body they can impact.

    Oh, and a medical establishment that is less careless with women’s health would be nice, too.

  13. FeistyAmazon Says:

    So many women need to hear your story, and so many who are thinking of going under the knife and/or hormones, before they do. There is so much pressure in the butch/genderqueer/tomboy 20 to 30 something crowd to do just that…and if they don’t do it legal, they go get ‘T’ off the street. At some of our female centered Butch groups and person to person, we hear how intense this pressure is. I’m so glad I came out at the time when being a Dyke, Female and Butch was a source of pride, not something to be shamed of and to run towards the male!
    -In Sisterhood,
    -FeistyAmazon


  14. You are very brave. I am so so sorry you have had to deal with this suffering, no one should. You’re not alone, and I am glad that you have found your way back. I hope you have found comfort and inner peace <3

  15. Ashland Avenue Says:

    Violet, this obviously took so much work on your part – emotionally, intellectually, and physically. It certainly paid off, as this is wonderful. I know there are other trans people out there who will be thrilled (and soothed) to find your story. Well done.

  16. Barbara Di Bari Visconti Says:

    Thank you for sharing your story, Violet Irene!

  17. FeistyAmazon Says:

    I’m wondering if there are support groups starting to form for those who were formally FTM, or considering so, and were on ‘T’, considering surgeries, or went through surgeries, but decided to go back and reclaim their Female and Lesbian Selves……well, for starters, their Female selves…..It would probably be a great service to you and others if such support groups were to form, since I’m hearing from many Lesbian blogs these very same stories, that have been so censored from the trans dialogue! You would not feel so alone!

    I do know of at least one case who has done so, and I suggested to her to perhaps start a group like that.
    -FeistyAmazon

  18. lesley213 Says:

    This is a very honest and powerful post, thank you. And it has inspired me to tell my own story.

    I am a radical feminist and a lesbian. I hate the Trans project and how men invade women and lesbian space because they are “really women” or “really lesbians”. I hate the inherent misogyny in the Trans position.

    And yet at an individual level I understand the desire of women to transition. My dirty secret is that I have felt it too.

    I was not the typical tomboy as a child that many lesbians profess to be. I played with dolls, played happily with other girls and embarassingly for my mother with her feminist ideas, refused to wear trousers as I found skirts more comfortable. This all changed when I hit puberty. Although I was happy to get my periods and see my body become that of a woman, I found the social aspects of puberty very hard.

    Suddenly all the girls seemed to only be talking about hair, makeup, clothes and how to get a boyfriend. I had no interest in any of this and felt like a real outsider. I began from 12 to hang around with boys and had a boyfriend from 12 and boys who were friends. I felt like I could fit in more with boys. There was no talk of make up, clothes or getting boyfriends. I look physically at this time, what would have been characterised as a “nerd”. Sensible haircut, jeans (skirts were no longer appealing when I was supposed to wear uncomfortable court shoes and shave my legs), t shirts and jumpers.

    It is also at this time I developed my alter ego – Stuart. In all my daydreams I was Stuart. He grew up with me and I day dreamed about my life as a teenage boy and then a man. Of course like all daydreams, Stuart was more popular and better looking than my real female self, but he didn’t always have an easy time in my daydreams. However, crucially he didn’t experience any of the everyday sexism that I found so hard to take as a young teenage women. Every woman reading this will know what I mean by this. Stuart was a big part of my life until literally a year ago when he just vanished from my day dreams. At the time I didn’t understand why, but I think now that I was beginning to understand a year ago at some level that Stuart was a device to deal with my anger around everyday sexism – a sort of, what if daydream.

    I have never talked about any of this in real life as I am deeply ashamed of this, so apologies if all of this seems really disjointed and poorly thought out. Its hard to put something into words for the first time.

    But the truth is I think if in my early teenage years I had been presented with the discourse of Trans to explain my feelings, I could have easily transitioned.

    I have read radical feminists talking about FtoT hating their female bodies and hating their female themselves. Of course at a fundamental level, undergoing cosmetic surgery is a self hating procedure to undergo. But I never hated my female body, beyond the usual insecurities of any teenage girl and young woman. I don’t know if those who actually transition feel differently, but I have always liked having breasts and a female body. But the things that did make me think I would rather be a man were simply that life would have been easier. I wouldn’t have had to deal with all the everyday sexism that as a teenage girl made me so angry. I wouldn’t have had to deal with on an everyday basis

    - sexist teachers who treated girls and boys differently
    - my parents who in spite of what they professed did treat my brother better. Yes we both had equal chores for example, but whereas he rarely did them, I was made to do mine
    - judgements and pressures from other girls that I largely ignored, to wear make up, prettify myself, etc
    - pressure to behave in a certain way now that I was a teenage girl, rather than just behave as myself
    - casual judgements from men on whether I was attractive or not

    I could go on and on, but you all know what I mean. I basically wanted to go back to being treated as an individual and not be faced with being treated as a lesser being with all the pressure to conform to being an acceptable teenage girl and then women.

    So what stopped me framing these feelings as “really being a man inside”.

    1. I think first of all the Trans project was pretty much in its infancy when I was young and at my most vulnerable. And certainly FtoT was largely unheard of, everyone in the media was MtoT. I was born in 1969 to give this context. As I was a younger adult, anything I read on FtoT made it clear that the surgical solutions around creating a penis were pretty rudimentary as well – and basically I didn’t want to be a freak – someone who in the surface looked like a man but had no penis or a pretty poor substitute for one.

    2. I knew I wasn’t a man and that it was not really possible to become a man. If it had been, I would have been much more tempted.

    3. Feminism – although I have only come to radical feminism in the last few years along with an understanding of the Trans project, I did have enough of an understanding of feminism as a teenager to recognise that my feelings were really about, as I would have expressed it then, the sexist society I was growing up in, rather than about my own individual feelings and “gender identity”.

    4. I have the intelligence and self awareness to analyse and challenge my own internal feelings. Many women, including those who might be much more academically intelligent than myself, often have what I would see as quite a low understanding of their own feelings and behaviour. I generally do understand why am I doing something, even if it is for shameful reasons.

    I do think I might have been influenced to go down the transition route if I had been surrounded both by the discourse and by individuals who were telling me that my feelings were really because I was a man underneath and that it was perfectly possible to change my body to that of a man’s.

    I also do understand FtoT who then access lesbian space. I have had so much support, good times, a feeling of being accepted and generally nurtured in lesbian space. By nurtured and accepted I don’t mean in a support group type of way. I simply mean being allowed to be myself and accepted for that – a simple thing, but it has felt very powerful. If I had transitioned I suspect I would be wanting to access lesbian only space. it is literally about trying to get the best of both worlds.

    I am not butch and so the lesbian discourse around being butch rather than being trans has never appealed to me. All I have ever wanted was to be myself. It terrifies me how the Trans discourse is now being sold to teenage girls and women as a solution to internal and societal conflicts. And it angers me that feminists are silencing objections to the Trans discourse as Transphobia.

    • Lindsay Says:

      I agree with your view point on lesbian only space. Losing my lesbian identity when I first transitioned to male was one of the hardest parts. There was a lack of warmth and acceptance I had previously been accustomed to and for a long time I felt alone. I personally think this pushed me farther into the trans community and lifestyle as I pushed to find a similar acceptance elsewhere. It never came and I slowly fell into depression. I simply didn’t fit, I didn’t feel the things other FtoT men felt, I often disagreed with the agenda and genera political stances making me even more of an outsider. Regaining my lesbian sisters has become one of the most amazing parts of detransitioning for me.

  19. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Thank you lesley for sharing your truth with us. As a kid I so wanted to be a boy, hated being a girl, hated forming breasts, and being teased because I wouldn’t wear a bra, and most of all the type of things you mentioned. However I was a hardcore tomboy, whoh FINALLY found a place when I came out as a Dyke, in that I could go from tomboy to Butch! And that there were others like myself with similar background and proclivities. I was no longer alone with it all, and had Sister Butches to talk to who were PROUD to be Female. POWERFUL FEMALES out of the mold, and strong and Amazonian, but nonetheless female. I came into a strong Lesbian FEminist commmunity, well, multiple Lesbian communities, some that got along, some that didnt’. But there was none of this transitioning talk.

    IF INSTEAD I came out into a strong Trans community, INSTEAD OF a strong Lesbian and/or Lesbian Feminist community(not that we agreed on all things, or even some things, I had some great disagreements with them), nonetheless there was PRIDE in being Female, whereas if you’re the least bit Butch/masculine/tomboy/boyish/babydyke, there’s all the genderqueer/trans talk, looking at my background, hating my Femaleness cuz I wasn’t feminine and didn’t like any kind of feminine things, I think I too could have fallen under the pressure to at least genderqueer if not transition on some level, or identify as male or try to pass as male…..THANK GODDESS I CAME OUT INTO A COMMUNITY OF STRONG DYKE WITCHES! THEY TAUGHT ME SUCH PRIDE IN BEING FEMALE, MAGICAL, AMAZONIAN AND STRONG. AND ONE THAT TAUGHT ME THE MOST WAS AN OLD SCHOOL BUTCH WHO was very well versed in magic and matriarchal herstory. Wow, she and I did some POWERFUL rituals together! I am so glad for that, and I tell every Pagan that asks that it was the Dyke Witches that brought me onto the Path of Witchcraft and the Goddess..and how healing that was: that womyn COULD be powerful, strong, magical and come together in strength and unity. These days there is such little pride in that, or it’s all been catering to feminine straight women, no longer Dykes and a matriarchal alternative, as we were all researching back then for other stories and channeling those powerful FEMALE energies. No, this generation has bought the ‘males are powerful’ line instead, and that since they don’t conform to feminine behaviors, then THEY MUST BE MALE, and thats where the power lies, for them….it is very, very sad to see…all that work to create alternatives, alternative ways for womyn, Dykes, Butches, Amazon types to be, and now they all wanna be ‘male’! Very, very sad…..

    But thanks again for you telling your story. We need to keep telling our stories…more and more womyn are finally waking up to the tran smokescreen lies, the more vicious they get the more they lose us, but there will always be the apologists that think it’s a ‘whole new paradigm’(yeah had to suffer through that today at an event I went to, the whole new paradigm of ‘genda’. Or how does Gallus Mag say it? ‘Jenda’).
    -IN DykeAmazon Sisterhood,
    -FeistyAmazon

  20. Bev Jo Says:

    I was born in 1950 and the Fifties were the right wing era of conformity. I was strongly pushed into femininity by my mother, but it felt uncomfortable and humiliating. I hated it and chose to be a young Butch, but had no support, no language for any of it. From my earliest memories, I was harassed and attacked by boys for being a girl and having a female body, I played with toys made only for boys and hated the boring and silly toys allowed girls. But my pals were girls for the most part, and I rarely played with boys. Their torturing and killing animals was horrifying to me. They even sexually molested my dog. They felt so different from the girls, who thought, discussed, explored, and had such a range of intellect and emotion, from such an early age.

    I would fantasize of being in a community of girl warriors who fought together against whatever enemies we had. That, and my always being in love with other girls sustained me. Still, without support of any kind — not one book or film that wasn’t Lesbian-hating — I became lovers with my best friend when I was 17. It still took a few years before I found a Lesbian Feminist community in 1970, which changed everything for me.

    I really don’t think that if the trans cult was in existence then that it would have enticed me. I’m not intending to criticize any woman who has been drawn into it, but I keep feeling stereotyped among feminists about who and what Butches are, including that we are the majority of F2Ts. I disagree, and see het and bisexual women wanting to be men in order to have sexual access to gay men, and I see Fem Lesbians obsessed with maleness. There are a few Butches, but not the majority.

    I guess I want to say again, to counter all the propaganda that I am seeing everywhere, in the male and het media, Lesbian media, and in feminist discussions: Butch is not male or masculine. Refusing to obey male rules is not male. If we are going to call names and call any woman “masculine,” wouldn’t it be more accurate to apply that term to women who bond with men, contract themselves to men, follow the male rules for how men say a “real” woman is supposed to look, stand, move, act, talk, etc.? We are expected to change ourselves beyond natural recognition, mask our faces, stand on narrow points that uncenter us and which damage our feet and backs, make our voices unnaturally high, forget how to think clearly, embrace acts which hurt us physically, mentally, and emotionally, and then to turn on and marginalize and “other” the few women who refuse to do all this. Men turn reality completely around, which is why men who insist they are women usually fit into the male rules of femininity — including the men who say they are “Butch.”

    Please don’t participate in using male rules against other women. Don’t accept their lies. Dare to re-think what it means to be a woman and “feminine.” I’m seeing many feminist online exploring these issues, but they just stop where their basic identity is threatened. In discussions of femininity, so many women refer to who and what is “pretty,” as if we all agree about those definitions. I’ve even seen feminists assuming/saying that if someone is considered “pretty,” then she has to be “feminine/Fem,” which lets you know what they think of those who say no to male standards.

    If saying no to men and patriarchal rules makes a woman “masculine,” are the brave women driving in countries where it is against the law for women to drive, therefore “masculine?”

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Exactly. Who decided that leather work boots are “male”? Men who wanted the superior foot and ankle protection of leather work boots. Who decided that heavy-duty jeans are “male”? Men who wanted the durability, ease of wear, protection, etc. of heavy-duty jeans. Who decided that wearing a warm, sturdy, comfortable flannel shirt is “male”? Men who want the warmth, comfort and protection of a flannel shirt.

      To hell with that noise.

      When they wanted the rank, power and distinction afforded by ornate powdered wigs, yards of prohibitively expensive, hand-made lace and hundreds (thousands?) of hours of embroidery, they decreed these things to be “male”. When they wanted to appear “too wealthy to do manual work”, super-long finger-nails were deemed appropriately “male”.

      It’s all cultural smoke and mirrors, courtesy of the Patriarchy.

      Wanting to cover your body in functional, well-made, durable, plain clothing in 2012 doesn’t mean that you really want to cut your breasts off and take up overt misogyny as a hobby (I’m looking at you here, daughter of the right-wing politician Sonny Bono, with great sadness.)

      Enough with letting men define us. If I’m wearing it, it’s “women’s” clothing and I look fucking fabulous in it, even if it’s generic flip-flops, black sweats, a plain, unisex, light-colored tee-shirt and my long hair in a top-knot, off of my neck for coolness, zero make-up and a pair of weirdly enchanting colored-glass earrings. It’s all “womanly” when I wear it. When I had my hair buzzed to 1/8th inch, that was “feminine”, too, because I’m XX and female.

      Can you believe we’re being forced to have this conversation in 2012? Me neither. Sometimes if feels like feminism never happened. Gah.

  21. traps Says:

    Just want to say that not only older lesbians are opposed to trans theory- I was born in the 70′s and my friends born in the 80′s feel the same way. I was brought up in an artistic city household where I was allowed to dress how I wanted (sort of ‘unisex’ as I still dress now) and play with the things I wanted (lots of building, lots of puzzles, lots of little cars, some dolls too)- in the early 90′s I was involved with the Riot Grrrl scene, right when ‘queer’ was starting to take over ‘gay,’ right about when T was added to LGBT… I never really thought about it, just had a ‘people can do whatever they want, I don’t care’ attitude… it was only when I started noticing SO many young non-conforming women like myself starting to lop off their breasts and grow beards and suddenly have deeper voices did I realize the damage transism can do. I wasn’t especially concerned about the middle-aged men who think they’re ‘ladies’ walking around looking ridiculous until I started to learn about how many of them are saying that they’re lesbians like me, even with their dicks and all… (‘transmen’ here in nyc are by and large ‘gay men’ it seems too) Sorry for somewhat rambling comment

  22. BadDyke Says:

    “Butch is not male or masculine. Refusing to obey male rules is not male. ”

    YES! I agree totally with this.

    This idea, pervades the current online debates and (for example), the academic literature on the whole brain sex/innate gender/sex differences/female brain in a male body stuff. If something is NOT feminine, it gets labelled masculine. Lesbian ‘behaviour’ gets labelled as ‘male’ sexuality (because they’re ALSO attracted to women). Hence the whole gay men as ‘feminised’ men and lesbians as ‘masculinised’ women. Everything gets seen in terms of heterosexuality, and the same silly ole gender axis, with female at one end, male at the other, and trans wandering about in between.

    Which just says what we knew anyway — everything gets looked at from the MALE point of view (male equals human), and from the heterosexual point of view.

    Just adding some more genders in between male and female, or just adding another axis (see SEX goes along this axis, GENDER goes along the other axis, and we all want to be along the diagonal so that our sex and gender MATCH) doesn’t alter the fact that you’re still thinking of male and female or masculine and feminine as being at opposite ends of a ‘spectrum’ — hence if you’re not one, you’re the other. Taking the whole of human diversity, and instead reducing it ALL to the only terms that the patriarchy thinks is valid — female is ALWAYS other, far away from the perfect human, the human male.

  23. GallusMag Says:

    “I don’t feel comfortable calling myself transgender any more or being tied to an identity that does not give people the opportunity to grow, change and have individual narratives and history. And it’s hard to be part of a community that doesn’t accept varied opinions on language. Doesn’t this just alienate those looking for safety?

    I never realized how much I would have to mourn when I started testosterone. I was told I would be gaining so much. All I have felt is the loss of my history, which some do not accept as truth. I feel the need to protect and keep that safe or chance losing myself all over again.

    I’m not here to open old wounds. Not mine. Not anyone else’s. I’m here to talk about why after seven years of living in the public eye as an out and proud transgender man, I no longer want to identify as one.”
    http://www.nowtoronto.com/guides/pride/2012/story.cfm?content=187563

    • m Says:

      so sad how most ‘transmen’ end up with that same exact look, erasing all their original individuality- i imagine she has that same exact voice as well

  24. Lesbians are not bisexuals Says:

    [You, sir or madam, have been posting multiple inflammatory comments under various names. I have determined that YOU are a TROLL. Best of trolling to you sir. Elsewhere. This is your FINAL WARNING.-GM]

  25. Lesbians are not bisexuals Says:

    Oh, gawd, calm down and retract your fangs. No, I’m not trolling. I’m a lesbian who doesn’t like bisexuals calling their asses lesbian. I wanted use the title because it fit. You had no problem posting my comments under fuckofftrannies. You sound paranoid. You don’t have to be scared I won’t post here anymore. You’re
    the biggest troll of all, hon.

    Toodles, SIR.

  26. lee Says:

    You are crazy as hell … did your docter not tell to really think it through before transitioning… you are not a true transgendered person.because if you were you would have never went back to being a girl… buying bras come on…..

    • lee Says:

      And another thing what is this trans cult u people or talking about…dyke witches ,, sounds like to me your in some sort of cult,, either your born in the wrong body which makes you transgender..or your not.. its all about your brain… if you do any research you will find out that before the europeans came and killed all indians their were transgendered indians living freely, without descrimination.They were aloud to choose at puberty wether they wanted to live as male or female…and were believed to be two spirited people who were magical and lucky in love..as for me I have known all my life that I am male …but was born female..I have been on t for 7 months and I am happier and more comfortable than I have ever been….and I’m not a member of no trans group nor do I have any support…… I just new it was right.

      • doublevez Says:

        I don’t even know how to respond to this racist noble savage schtick. Then, as now, natives are as homophobic as anyone. Transgendered living freely? Yeh, we did that a lot, us native people starving to death during drought and 30 below zero. We we’re overjoyed to share our meagre rations with non-productive and non-reproducitve free living lucky in love free loaders.

  27. Mike Says:

    Aboriginal practices vary from band to band, then as now. The fantasy idea of the two-spirit does differ from the reality. Many were medicine people, sure. Others were nonconforming (gay or trans) natal males who would raise orphaned relatives, indeed serving a very important purpose. The majority of nonconforming natal females (butch lesbians/trans/etc) were socialized as males and expected to carry the same responsibilities as any other man. However, this is my band and I will not speak for others, nor endorse the misappropriation of our culture by people who have very little understanding of who we are as a collective.

  28. Mike Says:

    also, we’re not Indians. Those people come from India. Oh, and Lee, I assure you that I’m not part of some dyke “cult” (I did try unsuccessfully to be a good butch for decades, though) as it takes a nanosecond to find out that I am also trans. Stupid white kids make the entirety of the trans male community seem like one big joke. Do some research and get back to me when you’re a big boy.

  29. PC Says:

    Is it possible for us to connect… I would really appreciate talking to someone who has been through this…

  30. A Trans Parent Says:

    Why did you stop your transitioning process?

  31. MAxim Says:

    Hi.. I don’t really speak english.. I understand a little bit but I try to translate .. But I know that I’m on the same situation of you.. I’m on T since January 2012.. And now I don’t know why but after 10 months i’m not sure.. Maybe i regret.. maybe I miss lesbian life.. I’m thinking to stop T.. Now I think that I made a big mistake.. How are you decided to stop definitely? What questions are you posing at you? Maybe you explain this in this text and I don’t understand.. I try to translate with google lol .. So, if you can help me i will thanks you a lot…

  32. sol Says:

    hi, its very tempting but i really want to remain as i am…

  33. Guls Says:

    Thoughtful and insightful. FtM and de-transitioning experiences are notable for their absence in what makes it into MSM coverage of Trans issues. Thanks, Violet for your perspective.

    Andy.

  34. Just browsing Says:

    Why in Hell did you even bother to start transitioning?

  35. Jan Says:

    I know this was written a long time ago so you might not get this but on the offchance you do I wanted to thank you for your insight. This comment wont be too long but I’m really torn about the whole FTM issue, I’m 23 and have always felt like I would’ve…been better suited as a man. I even went through a phase when I was 18 of dressing and acting like a guy but due to my easy to identify feminine face and voice (despite my best attempts) I’m sure I just looked extremely ridiculous and that’s why I stopped (and constantly cringe at the memories, I made so many sexist comments which made me feel ashamed just for the amusement of men in hopes of earning their acceptance). I know the only way I could ever hope to transition is through testosterone and I’m scared of what could happen if I don’t want to keep doing it (like your voice changing forever/for a long time). Should I try to do it? I’m not insecure about being a woman anymore, it’s only about wanting to be a man not about not wanting to be a woman. I didn’t want the comment to be too long so I cut a lot of TMI stuff out but there were reasons behind my insecurity.

    • GallusMag Says:

      If the guest blogger who sent me this doesn’t see/respond to your comment (or even if she does) I recommend you talk to this blogger:
      http://ataulfomangos.tumblr.com/

    • Kathrin Says:

      Transition is trading one set of problems for another set of problems. Some would consider it worth it, many end up regretting it.

      With testosterone, the changes tend to be fast, and they tend to be permanent. It’s rather mood-altering, and can lead to personality and sexuality changes. It tends to destroy reproductive ability (given sufficient time), should that be something you wish to do some day.

      Why do you want to be a man? What do you expect transition to do for you? Could you get those benefits any other way, without the cost of transition?

      • Jan Says:

        Yeah I know transitioning can have its problems, I’d really love to just press a button and be a real man instead of a pseudo-man. I would want to be a man permanently but I don’t think I’d like to be a transman permanently, you know? But no matter what I do ATM I just look like a girl in boys clothes (hypothetically I mean, I don’t do this anymore). If I were to do testosterone I’m 90% sure it would be temporary, just to experience being a man like I’ve always wanted to do. So obviously permanent side effects from stopping it are pretty scary to me.

        I just think it would be cool to be a man, hang out with the dudes and be one of them. It felt like that for a while with my dad when I was dressing like a guy. He was the only one who took me seriously and he tried to keep it up when I returned to women’s clothes and I love him for trying but I could tell his heart wasn’t in it anymore. I’m an only child and he told me when I was a little kid that he had wanted a son (among other smaller but similar comments from time to time), but it was one of those throwaway comments that adults never expect children to remember or pay heed to. I’m sure he’d be heartbroken if he knew how sad that comment made me for years after it and the guilt that came with it, although I never quite built up the courage to apologise for not being the son he wanted (and the more time passed, the more I figured he wouldn’t even remember the comment). Didn’t even mean to type all that lol. Before I actually wanted to be a guy I remember when I was like six years old and my favourite dreams were always the ones where I either became or just was a boy in them lol. And of course not having to put up with the day to day shit of being a woman for a while would be awesome.

    • Violet Irene Says:

      I don’t have a ton of time just now, so I will follow up later if you want to talk some more. But to start with, let me make an analogy. You live in a country and maybe it’s an imperfect country in a lot of ways, but it’s the only home you have ever known. A lot of people think transition is like immigrating to another country. It’s not. It’s like renouncing your citizenship in your homeland only to find that you are now a person without a country, and nowhere anywhere to really feel at home. Nowhere where you can get a permanent job, set up a home, have a family, sleep soundly and securely. Immigrating to a new gender is impossible, because gender is something done to you by biology, your upbringing, and society, not something you can declare or decide for yourself.

      The fantasy of “hangin with the bros” is just a fantasy, it can never really be real. Trust me when I say that I do completely understand what you mean and the appeal. Even if they think you are 100% bro (and this is HARD to achieve, often, they will suspect something is off with you but be too awkward/polite to say something, just saying) you will always know the truth, and no matter how hard you run and how far you travel, you will never be able to escape that truth. You will always know that you have something to hide, and you will always–like a woman born and raised–fear rape and know that it’s a possible consequence of being discovered and exposed.

      Your feelings of ambivalence need to be given more respect than what you are giving them. If any part of you fears or dreads or questions the consequences of testosterone–which can happen permanently after only a few doses, and you have no way of knowing if your body will be one that responds that way–then you need to just not do it.

      What’s wrong with being a girl in “boys’” clothes anyway?

      • Jan Says:

        I don’t really like that analogy, it’s not very fair for me lol. But I must admit I do wonder if guys would accept an FTM or if they’d be like…Weirded out by it. I know through experiences how territorial they can be with their boys club lol, but also I think I would probably feel a bit weird around an MTF especially if it wasn’t passable as a woman at a glance (I’m not sure if I’d even pass as a man with testosterone) so it’s not like I can hold it against them, even if I want to.

        I’m just so confused about what I want, one minute I like being a woman, the next minute I’m hoping I’ll wake up the next day male, lol. My desire to be a man used to be very strong and I’d think about it all the time but it’s ebbing away as the years go by, just replaced by reluctant acceptance, that’s why I’m kinda like I want to transition now but at the same time I don’t want it to be forever. I just want to live as a man for a while, have some fun as one of the dudes, then maybe (I might love being a guy) transition back into a woman. I wasn’t even aware testosterone could have permanent side effects, now I’m even less sure than I was before. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I know FTM is supposed to be a permanent thing, and on the surface of my mind I’m still like yeah this is what I want to do. It’s just deep down I have to be honest with myself and admit there’s a strong chance I may regret it. And I think being caught in between the genders would be even worse than not really wanting to be the one you are.

        Maybe you’re right about it just being a fantasy, I don’t know. I’ve really felt like I’m one of the bros before and it’s been awesome but then the next second out of nowhere I’m the butt of their sexist jokes. And of course I can’t complain about it because then I’m just ‘nagging’ and distancing myself even further from them. Sometimes it’s surprisingly easy for me to forget that I’m just seen as the girl of the group, even when some of their girlfriends are constantly suspicious of me.

        Sorry for the super long comment and if it seems a bit like rambling, I tried to shorten it a bit. And there’s nothing wrong with being a girl in boys clothes, but when you’re trying to pass as a boy that’s not really what you want to look like lol :p.

      • GallusMag Says:

        ” I wasn’t even aware testosterone could have permanent side effects..”
        What?
        Is this the first place you’ve ever looked up F2T stuff?

  36. Jan Says:

    No but I’ve mostly just watched transition journey videos and stuff like that and none of them ever mentioned testosterone being permanent, but then again none of them mentioned wanting to stop the transition either lol. I mean, I would’ve done proper research before I really really considered it of course, but at this stage I haven’t even talked to a doctor or anything about it.

    • Violet Irene Says:

      The change happens gradually, but many of the things that do change are permanent as soon as they happen. So, you won’t wake up with a full beard after two shots, but you will grown new hair follicles in the places where an adolescent male would. Those follicles will never go away. They will go back to being softer hair, maybe, when you stop testosterone, but you will always have more facial and body hair than you did before.

      Same with the voice deepening. The results vary a lot but it’s best to assume it will begin in the first month, and where ever you are when you stop taking testosterone, that’s where you’ll stay. A lot of times the voice that results doesn’t sound like an average male OR female, but kind of squeaky like that in-between stage boys go through.

      You’ll grow new sweat glands right away too, and those stay. The effects on your blood sugar regulation and blood pressure can take a while to reverse or you may trigger a process that isn’t reversible at all.

      You could easily dabble in testosterone only to end up not “passable” as either male or female. A woman who strikes people as kind of off. I have seen this happen to people! Psychologically and socially it is a huge, devastating risk. They were lovely, normal lesbian women and they don’t fit in anywhere now, there’s no option to just blend in like covering a tattoo or taking out a piercing, it is very hard for them to ever get a mainstream job or date in the mainstream “pool.” It’s very hard for them, very lonely.

      Men are happy to humor a bro-like female to a point but yes, they do talk behind your back. Even if they “respect pronouns” and call you by a male name and superficially seem to accept your transition. The best you will get, with the best, most kind and well-intentioned men, is to be thought of as a sickly little sibling, a fragile tomboy “brother” who needs her delicate delusions preserved. Someone who has mental problems they are careful to tiptoe around. From men who are not as great, there will be gossip, jokes behind your back, and possibly physical “challenges” or confrontations.

      The simple, fair fact is that people become rightfully uncomfortable when another person tries to pass themselves off as something which they are not. Deception is a habit we learn well to identify as we live together in society.

      • Jan Says:

        Hmm….I just don’t think it would be worth the risks. Especially if all I get out of it is being a delusional pity case lol, but that sounds like it could be right. I guess it’ll just have to remain an unattainable dream of mine…Thanks for your help.

      • BadDyke Says:

        “Men are happy to humor a bro-like female to a point but yes, they do talk behind your back.”

        Let’s face it, we ALL know really that they’ll NEVER accept an F2M as a real chap, because they all know that they don’t have a REAL penis — and given the usual male fascination/obsession with penis size, they won’t ‘forget’ this however much they may claim to. Or however good your surgical construct is. They’ll still know that you can’t even shoot — just look at the typical male obsession when they think they’re shooting blanks!

        “a fragile tomboy “brother” who needs her delicate delusions preserved” Yep, I think you nailed it there!

      • Lindsay Says:

        I grew up with similar family issues Jan, the first girl born into my father’s side of the family in 2 generations, a mother who wasn’t overly feminine, an older brother and all uncles. Often my brother was given privileges simply because he was a boy, even in circumstances where it made no sense logically. I wasn’t allowed to.hang out with my male friends (that’s not appropriate for a young lady), my brother and I were very close but after a certain age I wasn’t allowed to do much with him (it wasn’t lady like to play football or work on cars) and this impacted our relationship as teenagers very negatively (we still haven’t repaired the damage done from different treatment, privileges and punishments that created anger and hostility between us), being a.tomboy and not being raised with a strong feminine influence in my life I became lost and alone when the rule was.put in place I could no longer wear boys clothes or cut my hair because it was time to grow up and be a young lady.

        My family will never understand the impact their treatment had on my choice to transition or the confusion it caused, and much like you they didn’t mean to harm me, they love me and at this point bringing it up would create a world of pain and guilt that is unnecessary.

        You can never achieve being a “real” man or the acceptance to the boys club through testosterone. I had only one male friend who genuinely accepted me as male even after a decade of living as.male. For the others I was just a point of amusement, the butt of the big joke I wasn’t let in on and my gender was the first thing to be thrown in my face in the event of arguments and disagreements over any topic.

        It’s an unattainable dream and in my attempt to attain it I’ve merely made myself forever an oddity. I just moved to a new state, the minute I meet another member of the lgbt community I am immediately questioned about my gender due to my.voice which is forever stuck in-between male and female. Ironically I’m a gorgeous woman, I get a lot of attention immediately based upon looks and style, I present (and am now comfortable) as a an extremely feminine woman, but the second I open my mouth I become something strange to be avoided, questioned and drilled, or the automatic person who will understand and talk you through any sort of self doubt or inner questioning you have (regardless of if it involves your gender or not). I’m lucky to have found a partner who doesn’t care that I have to shave my face every day or who feels my voice is soothing and pays more attention to.my tone and projection than to the fact it’s male. When we go places with my son regardless of how I’m dressed or look people ask if I’m “her son’s father” the minute I open my.mouth.

        If being a real male is your goal you won’t achieve it through testosterone and if you want to eventually live as female again know that you’ll always be labeled as something other than one after stopping testosterone if your transition to male actually worked well.

        This is long I know but hoping these points of my story will help you out. I spent 7 years living as male before testosterone and another 3 years with it. I passed as.male so well that people often assumed I was a man who wanted to be a woman. In fact I was my doctor’s biggest success story with my transition. But even that didn’t make me male enough for the boys club. Just something to think about dear.

  37. mel Says:

    But there are a number of women who’ve taken testosterone to look (more) androgynous, non-binary, or just “trans” (as opposed to transmale). Rather than being horrified at being seen as a kind of “Pat” (a la Saturday Night Live), they claim to love it.

    Here’s a video by one woman who claims that her sexually ambiguous appearance pretty much fits her self-concept and the way she wants to present to the world.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxOdKxyD3Sw&list=UUtKaGOJi4JHfgGfSyV3Wuiw&index=1

    Before taking “T”, she looked pretty boyish, but now, with her breasts amputated and a full beard that’s stayed after being off T for several months, plus her froggy voice, she’s really ambiguous. (She claims to like her beard and has no plans to remove it.)

    It’s a sad trap that she’s fallen into, but she’s not alone. She seems honest when she says that she doesn’t identify as a man or a boy, although she used to. She says (in other videos) that she’s female, and “fem”, but doesn’t want to be perceived as a woman.

  38. Bev Jo Says:

    That woman in the video looks classic genderqueer Fem, and is again a reminder about how so much of the F2T culture is emulating gay men, stereotypical lisp at all. I say again that very few seem to be Butch, and many seem to be variations of fag hags and are incredibly male-worshipping women.

    Of course the effects are permanent. I don’t think I’ve heard a “male” voice yet from an F2T. Most have that cartoon chipmunk-type voice which is laugable, including those who stopped testosterone years ago now. The old bald man look stays. I see an older one who seems to always want to be with Lesbians, and she just looks like a man who has aged before his years. The bone structure changes too, with the skull thickening that makes M2Ts so grotesque-looking. That’s not even talking about the serious health damage.

    Others look like Fem genderqueer types that will never appear really male.

    I understand wanting male privilege and no more oppression as a woman, but even if that were possible, why would any woman want to claim identity with and solidarity with the group who is oppressing and raping women and destroying the world, while betraying her own kind?

    • Lindsay Says:

      You should meet me, I am now stuck with a completely male voice. It’s ridiculous now as a woman but I am happy not to be left sounding like a chipmunk lol. I do a really great Randy Travis impression when I sing ;)

      I’m also not balding or older looking than my age, in fact my birthday present to myself was being able to say to people “I’m nearly 30,” because they find it to be unreasonable that I’m so much older than I look.

      It is true these things CAN happen, but I don’t want to spread false information about transitioning in either the negative or positive aspects. I know several transsexual men who don’t fit any of the stereotypes you listed.

    • Jan Says:

      Well it’s not solely about wanting male privilege, it can be about not connecting well with other women, identifying more as a male than as a woman and a lot of other social reasons not directly related to male privilege. And sure there may be a touch of…envy, for lack of a better word, of gay men for their equality within a relationship with a man.

      I think you’re probably right baddyke, like behind your back that’s how they’d probably be feeling even if to your face they’d act like they accept you. And even if they did genuinely accept you, you’d always be wondering if they’re talking behind your back or not. Like even at the moment I wonder if they talk about me in derogatory sexual terms when I’m not around (more out of worry about being excluded from an inside joke) or if they just think I’m a cool dudette, lol.

      Thanks for sharing your story Lindsay, my mother and aunts came down on me hard with that “you have to be a lady” crap for a while when my mother finally realised how different I was. She used to say it came from me not having enough feminine authority in my life, but in the end all she achieved (at the time) was my resentment. I’m glad you said about gender being used against you in arguments, I still get that sometimes now but it just became ridiculous during my brief stint of taking on a male persona. Even though I know I wasn’t fooling anyone men still became a lot more aggressive towards me and I have to admit it was a little bit scary. I feel a lot better knowing I’m not the only person who’s dealt with these types of situations, they can feel very specific to you at the time. I guess I just have to learn to be proud of being in the girls club, lol.

  39. mel Says:

    Maybe they’re too much in the hell of their sexual dysphoria to think politically. They seem very depressed and self-obsessed, which prevents rational thinking/feeling. Their sexual dysphoria convinces them that they’d be better off as a “male feminist” than a woman.

    But this genderfuck trend is even weirder, since these non-binaries claim not to identify as either woman or man. That woman in the video says she’s happy as heck being neither/nor, and yet she admits to experiencing fear and embarrassment every time she walks out her door.

    • Lindsay Says:

      I hear you on the whole genderfuck genderqueer trend. Even when I identified as trans I had an issue with this whole thing. They believe in breaking down the gender binary, which in a way sounds good, but they also cause a lot of issues thru refuse to acknowledge for both the gay community and the trans community they are automatically lumped into. I received a lot of disdain in the trans community for my view points regarding rather or not genderfuck should be included and supported by the trans community at all.

      If you think about it the whole basis of being transsexual is that you feel you’re a particular gender, if the gender binary is broken down inside the culture then how can one “feel” like either gender? How can you feel male despite having a female body if either gender has no specific feelings, interests, or roles to play? If men were allowed to wear dresses and makeup, allowed to knit or collect porcelain dollars and this was seen to have no impact on their gender identity then how could a person born into a male body “feel” female? They’d just be a guy who felt the way that guy happened to feel, and in that sense including those who push to destroy the gender binary goes against everything that the trans community uses as reasons and examples of what make them trans outside of physical causing emotional trauma.

      For the gay community they just make us look absurd to the mainstream straight society. They get lumped in with us and give the impression that people who are gay or lesbian are just freaks to the cultural norm, as if every masculine lesbian is just a woman who wants to be allowed to act like a man or something in-between, taking away society seeing us as individuals who have a sexual orientation issue to make us.men and women who have a gender issue.

      They took a political movement and made it an identity. It was originally about either gender being able to be who they were without society’s expectations that men act one way and women another. It was never intended to be an actual gender identity, but now it’s like every little girl who didn’t like dolls and princesses feels they must have a gender issue and must fall into this category rather than just being a woman with her own set of interests and independent ideas.

      They make both groups look bad the same way the men in assless chaps slapped all over the news after pride events make us look like freaks to the mainstream and hold back the fight for acceptance and equality. It’s ridiculous.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Lindsey, I just saw this comment, and I think it’s fantastic. Very well said.

  40. Khriz Says:

    Hey… I usually do not respond to things like this because… Well if my family finds out all hell will break loose. Anyways… I am having a bit of a identity crisis…. Im just seeking some advice and hope you will help me with that….

  41. Cal Says:

    1)While I do agree that there is an issue with some young people rushing too quickly into identifying as trans and transitioning with little further thought, I think this is less an issue of intentional manipulation from a “cult”, and more a manifestation of adolescent impulsiveness. We aren’t all so thoughtless about it. To use myself as an example (and I apologize for the vanity in that), I fully intend to take things one step at a time – I bind, because otherwise, even when I manage to convince myself that I am fine staying a girl, I end up slouching to hide my chest, and at this point I’m worried it’s going to cause me spinal problems down the road. In the transgender spaces I’ve frequented (both online and in reality), I have been encouraged to take my time and honestly think about what it is I want. If I do go on testosterone, I plan to take a low dose and transition slowly, so that I have more time to “feel things out.”
    I understand that this is a major life decision, and I am still young (18). I understand that my relationship with my gender is tied into my relationship with femininity, and so I am taking the time to make sure. I don’t want to do this, and then realize I made the wrong decision. What made you decide to transition? What made you think you were a guy? What made you know you were wrong?

    2) I actually have heard quite a few FTMs whose voices have come out to be quite deep. Especially the older ones.

    3) I believe the lack of acceptance someone spoke of among non-trans men is largely cultural. I’m currently in college, and I find that the transguys I know (one of whom is pre-everything, and possibly non-op) are all treated like guys by their friends – mind you, the people I socialize with are by no means macho men, but rather feminist sci-fi geeks and soft-spoken engineers. So while I can agree that being seen as “one of the lads” most likely would not happen, I can easily see Jan being accepted as a guy if she chose to transition.

  42. Noanodyne Says:

    “Are geek feminists more accepting of trans women?”

    Many more sentiments along those lines on that blog.


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