UK’s youngest transgender patient seeks to reverse “sex-change”

October 29, 2012

Ria Cooper- youngest pediatric gender patient in UK [DailyMail]

Ria Cooper, widely heralded by trans activists as proof of the wisdom of pediatric gender treatment, has announced his intention to seek reverse sex-change treatment. Born male, now legally female and having grown breasts via synthetic female hormone injections which were started at age 16, Ria has decided he would be happier by making peace with the fact that he is simply a feminine gay man.

Ria Cooper now- embracing life as a trendy gay male [DailyMail]

From the DailyMail:

“Ms Cooper who was training to be a hair dresser as Bradley, believed at the age of 16 she was old enough to make the life-changing decision to give her ‘peace of mind’.

In 2010 Ms Cooper- then Bradley- told the News of the World: ‘I hate my body as it is now. I’ve known for years I’m a woman – I think and act like a woman, not a man. I don’t want years of misery.

‘I want it done as soon as possible so I can be the person physically that I am on the inside.

‘People might think I’m too young to make such a huge decision but I know my own mind and this is what I want.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2224753/Ria-Cooper-Britains-youngest-sex-change-patient-reverse-treatment.html#ixzz2AjFa43a9

From the Mirror Online:

“It will be strange because the last time I dressed properly as a boy I was about 10 years old,” she says.

“I’m still conscious of the way I look and I want to look like a trendy gay man rather than a girl-boy.”

Critics warned two years ago that Ria’s tender years meant she was too young to make the decision to become a woman.

Last night child psychologist Karen Sherr, formerly of Great Ormond Street Hospital, said: “It’s absolutely ­ludicrous for young kids to make such huge, life-changing decisions… and for doctors and their parents to support it.

“At that age you haven’t developed fully, neither physically nor ­emotionally. You’re still exploring your ­sexuality and you don’t know how you might end up.

“Children need to be allowed to grow into adults before they go through with something like a sex change because, as this case shows, at that age you don’t know yourself well enough.”

Ria has come full circle, now stating:

“The hormones have given me ­emotions I find it hard to cope with, teamed with a high sex drive,” she says. “Over the last year everything has been about sex and boys and wanting to be loved.

“I’ve had a couple of boyfriends who’ve known what I am, but straight men just see me as some sort of lady boy, a freaky challenge to notch up on their bedpost.

“Gay men don’t want me because they want a real man. I’ve nobody at the minute and don’t feel I can ever find love the way I am.

“There’s nothing to guarantee I will find love as Ria or Brad but I think I’ll have more luck as a gay man.”

Ria admits to dabbling in prostitution – something touched on by a recent ­Channel 4 documentary which followed her life over a year. “If there’s one thing I regret it’s that but, as usual, it was all about ­looking for love and being loved.

“At the time I thought the guys booking me must have really liked me as a person, but now I just realise I was some sort of secret thrill to them. I cheapened myself thinking I was ­being loved.

“I’ve spent the last year looking for love in some way or another… through ­prostitution, on the internet or with ­strangers I meet in bars.

“I now know I have to like myself before anyone else appreciates me. All I want to do now is find a nice man as Brad and settle down into some sort of normality.”

Sadly, the second youngest gender patient in the UK, Angel Paris Jordan- who had his testicles removed by NHS doctors at the age of 17- was in the news last August after being arrested for buying crack cocaine. 

Ria was only two months away from his scheduled surgical castration and sterilization which was ordered by doctors at the London Gender Identity Clinic.

No word yet if Ria will file a lawsuit against those who diagnosed and “treated” him. In 2009 the Monash Gender Clinic in Australia was shuttered while investigations were made and settlements paid to ex-patients who filed claims against practitioners for misdiagnosis and surgical mutilation. From TheSundayAge, which covered those events:

“’I will never be able to have sex again. Ever’

May 31, 2009

Three former patients of Australia’s controversial sex-change clinic say misdiagnosis and wrongful surgery destroyed their lives. Jill Stark reports.

HE WILL never forget the noise. Lying on the hospital trolley being pushed towards the operating theatre, he heard nothing but a primal wail. He looked back to see his younger sister sobbing, traumatised by the enormity of what he was about to do.

Andrew*, born male, was minutes away from an operation that would make him a woman. Psychiatrists said he had a female brain in a male body. Gender reassignment surgery was the only way to ease the mental torment he’d endured since adolescence.

But as the wheels squeaked towards the operating table he was struck by an unshakeable thought: “It’s not right.” He remembers telling the surgeon: “I think I’m doing the wrong thing, it’s not right, I think we’ve got to stop it.”

The surgeon stroked Andrew’s face, telling him it was natural to feel frightened before an operation. He protested again, insisting it felt wrong. Then it went black. When he woke up he was sure the surgery had been cancelled. The romantic tales he’d read of transsexuals who awoke post-surgery feeling “reborn” convinced Andrew the operation had been halted, because he felt no different.

“Then I remember lifting up the sheets and putting my hand down and feeling it all bandaged and packed. I just started bawling my eyes out and screaming … I remember saying to myself, you f–king idiot, Andrew, how could you be so bloody stupid?”

Twenty years after surgery that left him feeling like a “desexed dog”, the grief can still overwhelm him. Now 42, Andrew tells The Sunday Age the operation he had as a confused 21-year-old has shattered him.

After psychiatrists from Monash Medical Centre’s Gender Dysphoria Clinic referred him for reassignment surgery — including breast implants, the removal of his genitals, and the creation of a makeshift vagina — he tried to make the most of his new life as a woman.

He grew his hair long and wore make-up in a bid to fit in. Doctors told him it was normal to go through a period of adjustment. In time he would feel like a woman. But something wasn’t right. “I remember thinking to myself, what would happen if I admitted the truth to myself? I’m a man and I’ve just been mutilated, that’s all.”

Silent tears fall as he describes the anger he felt towards the doctors who led him down this path. But most of all at himself for believing them. It wasn’t until the mid-1990s when, supported by a woman with whom he was having a relationship, he returned to the clinic seeking help to return to life as a man. He says his psychiatrist, Dr Trudy Kennedy, told him she could not see him.

“I rang her up, I was telling her, ‘I’m suicidal, I’m not coping’. She said, ‘Well, if you’re that bad you should go to the emergency department’.”

Dr Kennedy says she has no memory of that phone call. But she concedes what happened to Andrew was wrong. “I think it was a terrible mistake that he was allowed to go ahead with it (surgery) instead of taking the time to think about it.”

She says Andrew’s surgeon is now dead. But Dr Kennedy, who assessed Andrew’s mental fitness, admitted to The Sunday Age: “I don’t know if he was ready for it (surgery) or not. He said he was ready for it. He’d been hounding us since he was 18.”

It’s true that Andrew thought he was a transsexual. However, the broken childhood that preceded his referral to the clinic is a recurring theme among those who feel they were misdiagnosed. Born to teenage parents, his earliest memories are of being hit and spat on by his father.

Latching on to his mother, he became distraught when he had to leave her to go to school. Confusion about his sexuality was compounded when he was raped by two men at the age of 16. As he aged and started to resemble his father, he began to hate his male appearance. A chance discovery of a book about a transsexual was a pivotal moment. The story resonated with him. Perhaps this was what he was.

Another former patient, Angela*, was also an abused child. Sexually molested by a cousin between the ages of four and nine, she grew up hating her femininity.

She recalls punching her breasts and working out obsessively at the gym to “remove anything that reminded me I was female”. She was a 22-year-old university student when she was referred to the clinic by her GP, depressed and struggling with her identity. Dr Kennedy diagnosed her as transsexual at the first assessment, prescribing her male hormones and suggesting female-to-male surgery.

Within months Angela’s body was covered in thick hair, her voice deepened and she had a full beard. She had to shave under the covers every morning to hide the truth from her conservative Catholic parents. Two years later she had surgery to remove both breasts and was scheduled to have a full sex change. Angela could no longer conceal the truth from her family and began living as “David”. Thankfully, she says, she realised there had been a mistake before undergoing full genital surgery.

“I remember at one point looking at myself in the mirror with this beard, my breasts gone and thinking, ‘Oh my God, what the hell am I going to do?’ … I felt ugly. I was the classic bearded woman, a monster trapped between two worlds.”

She claims her pleas for help were also ignored by the clinic and her return to life as a woman was a nightmare that involved two years of painful electrolysis to get rid of facial and body hair and surgery to reconstruct her breasts.

Now married to a “wonderful” man, Angela has three young children and has slowly rebuilt her life. Looking back, she acknowledges she gave consent for the procedure but believes it was not informed consent. She feels she was mentally ill and that her childhood abuse played a part in her gender confusion.

This nature or nurture argument is at the centre of the controversy surrounding the Clayton clinic. Like many psychiatrists, Trudy Kennedy maintains people with gender dysphoria are born with a genetic predisposition. While the condition is classified as a psychiatric illness, they believe it has a biological basis and can be cured only by gender-altering surgery.

They reject suggestions that a history of abuse, conflict with parents or underlying psychological problems can cause gender dysphoria. Indeed, just months ago, Melbourne scientists added fuel to this argument with the discovery of a gene that seemed to be responsible for feelings of being born the wrong sex.

But what worries other psychiatrists is the mounting evidence that surgery may not actually improve the lives of those who feel they were born with the wrong body. A review of more than 100 international studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham found there was no scientific evidence that surgery was effective and, in many cases, patients were left feeling more distressed. Baltimore’s Johns Hopkins University — which housed one of the pioneer gender clinics — no longer performs sex-change surgery due to such concerns.

A recent British review found suicide rates of up to 18 per cent among people who had undergone gender reassignment surgery. Doctors from London’s Portman Clinic say they see many patients who feel trapped in “no-man’s land” after surgery, finding themselves with a body which is no longer recognisable as male or female. Psychotherapy, the experts believe, may have saved them from such a fate but few gender clinics offer it.

Reviews of the Monash clinic found psychotherapy was rarely, if ever, offered. While a patient would require a diagnosis as a “true transsexual” from two psychiatrists before being offered surgery, both opinions were from inside the clinic — one that operates under the fundamental ethos that surgery is the only cure.

Andrew describes his experience as like “being on a conveyor belt” — prescribed hormones on the first visit and getting breast implants and a nose job within months. He says he consented to the procedures, and the sex-change surgery, because he believed it was his only option.

Another former patient, a 66-year-old man who was sexually abused by his mother as a child, had his genitals removed in 1996 after a referral from Dr Kennedy, who said the abuse played no part in his feelings of gender confusion. The man says his GP described him as a “walking cloud of despair” following the operation, which he says he will never get over.

However, Vikki Sinnott, a Melbourne-based psychologist specialising in transgender issues, has seen many clients who have benefited from surgery. She believes the regret rate in Australia is “tiny … between 1 and 2 per cent”. But she concedes no studies have been conducted to test this.

Indeed, one of the most glaring problems uncovered by the government reviews of the Monash clinic was lack of patient follow-up. Ms Sinnott says this could be due to a lack of funding. “But it’s also about people’s willingness to be involved. Quite often people will say, ‘Thank you very much, I’m happy with where I’m at, I’ll now go and continue with the rest of my life’,” she says.

None of the misdiagnosed patients spoken to by The Sunday Age deny gender reassignment can be beneficial to people who are correctly diagnosed as transsexual. Some have even offered to be part of any research conducted by the clinic. However, the transgender community has harshly criticised them for telling their stories, accusing some of lying to doctors about their transsexuality in order to get surgery they later regret — an opinion voiced in the past by Dr Kennedy.

Angela’s husband, who has campaigned for years to make the clinic accountable for his wife’s ordeal, says even if that were true, a competent psychiatrist would detect the deception and conclude an underlying psychological problem was driving it.

“When patients report feeling like the opposite gender, that is genuinely how they feel at the time,” he says. “They are no more lying than someone with anorexia is lying when they say that they feel fat.”

For Andrew, it’s the small victories that keep him going. “I will never be able to have sex again. Ever. It’s taken a long time to come to terms with that, but now I can say it without crying,” he says.

“You can’t be angry forever. You’ve got to let it go for your own health, and the people who love you.”

*Names have been changed.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/i-will-never-be-able-to-have-sex-again-ever-20090530-br41.html#ixzz2AjKMBl67

Here is the documentary covering Ria’s life as a “Transgender Child”

72 Responses to “UK’s youngest transgender patient seeks to reverse “sex-change””

  1. anon male Says:

    Horrific stuff.

    From one of the links (the crack one):

    “Speaking after the case, Jordan said she did not consider herself strictly a transsexual but had been born intersex and classed herself as an hermaphrodite.”

    True or standard issue bullshit? The funny thing is that you can’t look it up (well, I spent like two minutes :o ) because the media can’t seem to tell the difference between the two, either…


  2. I feel sorry for the women who regret it. It’s not that easy for them to go back is it? I mean how can you reverse something like voice change, body hair growth or genital growth?

    • Becky Green Says:

      I totally agree. I am a woman with PCOS. Although I don’t have higher than normal amounts of androgens, my endocrinologist says I’m hyper sensitive to the amount I do have. It wreaks havoc on a female body, trust me. If facial or body hair starts growing it is permanent, even after removing the extra T from the system. It has to be dealt with by laser removal or electrolysis. Then there are changes in muscle mass which leads to a thickening of the underlying bone structure and of course the hairline changes to a male’s pattern and/or they go bald.

      It is much easier for a man to reverse the effects of estrogen than it is for a woman to reverse the effects of testosterone. It makes me cringe every time I hear a teen girl is going on T. I know the hell that is about to break loose on her system. Pursuing delusions comes at a high price.


  3. Thanks so much for documenting this, Gallus. Endorsing gender (essentialism) because it’s the trendy thing is the cop-out that so many on the left go along with, but it is not the compassionate response. Thanks for helping us engage with the real-life impacts of genderism on vulnerable young people.

    • Becky Green Says:

      So true. The compassionate response would be saying, “HELL NO” to the person who wants to transition, followed by some real therapy.


      • I agree with getting these people real therapy before considering hormone therapy. I agree because now look at these people-they ruin their lives and now some of them want to blame the medical profession and that’s not right.

  4. Adrian Says:

    I can’t help but wonder how many of these regret cases we will see in the future, particularly as it’s only recently become really “accepted” (in some circles anyway) to start transition before puberty.

    It’s a weird Catch-22 for the people currently caught up in the gender-essentialist trans* trend, they know that their best chances of “passing” are if they never go through their biologically normal puberty at all, but do the transition early and only have the fake puberty that comes with cross-sex hormone treatments.

    Yet that means forcing this huge decision at a VERY young age, doesn’t it? I just can’t imagine. I never made any decisions like that (hell, I don’t even have a tattoo or any piercings) and yet when I think back to being 16, while I was still ME, in many ways I am now a very, very different person. I can remember thinking that I was so old and wise and surely had my permanent outlook on life already when I was in high school (and thought that the six years of junior high and high school were such a very long time, at that), but it really is true that perspective changes.

    Of course, the kids begging for treatment don’t understand that argument, and so as in this article it says they beg and beg for SRS, convinced they must have it, that it’s the only solution… and so I’m reminded of the “transabled,” who continually make the same argument. And yes as this article says, anorexic people also make that same argument too, they might really really believe but that doesn’t make them objectively right.

    People going into this as adults at least have only themselves to kick in the pants later, but for the kids who later blame their parents for going along with this decision that they begged and begged for but now later regret, it will be interesting, I guess.

    Absolutely though in those various “FTM” places on tumblr there’s hordes of 15 year old kids proudly posting how they’re on T, so their parents must be involved. Just… I don’t even know.

    • Witch Says:

      You know, this “kids know what they want” is so dangerous in so many levels. You can see where this leads – I’ve seen, on Tumblr of course, someone saying we should decriminalize child prostitution because we were “prohibiting kids from making their choices” and “some girls are mature and they know what they want and they choose to be a sex worker” and shit like this. It’s vile, really – Treat a group of people that are immature and have almost no life experience (But an enormous feeling of wanting to be rebel and be taken seriously even if they want to get ridiculous tattoos and piercings they’ll regret in a year or two) and give, or force unto them the entire rethoric of “choice”.

      They CHOOSE it, they KNOW they want it, saying kids and adolescents aren’t mature enough to make life-changing choices is BIGOTRY and AGEISM, geez, mom!

      It’s a wreck, those people just want to use children to further their vile agenda. If a child can “choose” and “be mature enough” to decide to have a life-changing surgery and take hormones, what exactly would impede them of “choosing” to prostitute themselves, for example? Treating children and adolescents like mini-adults furthers abuse against them. I’ve seen, on Tumblr, too, an adult guy congratulating a young girl (15 years or so, I think) on being so mature and intelligent. Guess what – she was saying BDSM rocks and is totally a good, safe lifestyle (I doubt she even had an experience with BDSM, now all is theory but no life experience at all, so everything is fine because in theory everything is beautiful and safe but in pratice…) and arguing against radical feminists.

      This is GROOMING and destroy’s child’s lifes!!

      • Adrian Says:

        Gross. Yeah, I’m not surprised you saw that on Tumblr, I suppose I should admit I mostly read Tumblr for the entire train-wreck aspect of it… and such “but they choose to be sex workers” is just a little hop step and a jump over…

        I don’t think it’s such an accident that so many of the “social justice” trans*-oriented tumblr accounts are also very much into being “sex-positive” and posting porn and talking about BDSM and all of it, either. As a matter of fact one of the ones I was reading (owned by the child of someone very well-known, which is how I found Tumblr in the first place) posted a video of some simulated rape scene porn clip (no way in HELL I’m clicking that, either) with a thread of commentary of people complaining loudly, only to join in on the side of the people cheering such content on, because, well, you shouldn’t “Yuck someone else’s Yum,” I kid you not. It’s all safe don’t you know and it’s groundbreaking don’t you know because it’s so wonderfully outre and they’re exploring don’t you know and that helps some people heal, you know… if you complain about people liking such things, even just to express that you feel bad that they are in a place where they have come to like such things, well, you’re just hating. Bigot. Perhaps worse yet, you’re a prude and NO one wants that… *eyeroll*

        And I do think a lot of this is coming from a place of wanting to rebel. On the one hand you have some gender-role obessed parents who want to force kids to be heterosexual, and yet on the other hand with some of the “I’m 14 and trying to figure out how to get on hormones without telling my mom and by the way I’m not just trans*, I’m gay too” crowd there seems to be this desire for breaking boundaries, because wanting to date boys and dress femme when you’re a girl is just too mainstream, or something. Far more interesting to fetishize gay culture and the entire idea of “queeniness” (speaking of that first Tumblr that opened this world to me…)

      • Loup-loup garou Says:

        Yet if the same girl had a serious interest in, say, astrophysics instead of BDSM, the same guy would probably harangue her online and tell her she was too young to lock herself into such a narrow interest, that she was doing irreparable harm to her development as a person, that she was immature and Avoiding Life, and that what she really needed to be doing at fifteen was trying on different identities and “exploring her sexuality.”

        When you’re fifteen, that guy is everywhere; his name is Legion. Actually, his name is Creepy Guidance Counselor, Lonely Middle-Aged Man Who Talks to You at the Café, Subtly Inappropriate Dad of One of Your School Friends, and now, of course, Sick F*** On the Internet. Every girl should receive a pamphlet about him on the first day of high school, if not sooner.


      • I agree. If I remember correctly reading Sheila Jeffrey’s SPinsters, it was women in the early 20th century (or perhaps earlier) who campaigned for “age of consent” laws in order to stop children being a free for all for men.
        Put it this way, it was not male politicians, or men in general, who decided that creating an “age of consent” by law was a good thing. It was *women*, because they were looking out for children’s interests, specifically female children, who were the main targets of predators.

        Anyway, my point is that whether children have their own sexuality or not, or whether teenagers know their own mind or not, is simply irrelevant in the context of the fact that men strive to harm rape and injure minors. And surgeons, it seems, put money/their desire to harm above anything else. In THIS context, the young person’s “right to choose” HAS to take a backstep.
        Sure, if we lived in a vacuum, (where men didn’t go out of their way to damage young people’s bodies and minds) then, and only then, can we possibly have any discussion about children’s right to choose, or children’s “right” to sexuality.

      • Lizzy Shaw Says:

        I’ve seen that shit on Tumblr too and it’s disgusting. Most of the people who cry “ageism” are the teenagers themselves, 20-somethings still stuck in the rebellious teenager mentality, and of course the predatory adults like in the example you gave. Lots of men just love to tell underage girls (and sometimes boys) how “mature” they are for their age. The man who complimented that girl for (theoretically) liking BDSM is trying to groom her into trying it either soon when she’s still underage or in the future when she’s legal.

        It’s sad enough when I see teenage mothers but now they’re all these predatory adults, usually men arguing that a teenager can freely choose to be a prostitute or take cross-sex hormones and live as the opposite sex. Nowadays most shrinks are cautious about younger people just taking anti-depressants so I do not see why cross-sex hormones are the treatment of choice for this particular psychological condition.

        Also you ever notice that the “ageism” crowd often disrespects older people, especially older women, especially second wave feminists who actually got shit done?

        @Adrian I remember that kind of stuff. It was almost ever where on Tumblr. Interesting how pro-kink and pro-porn people are most concerned with others shaming them, while anti-kink and anti-porn people are concerned with the abuse, exploitation and rape going on in porn and in kinkster communities. I was never much bothered by BDSM or cared about it at all until I saw women speaking about the abuse they had suffered and saw the hate they got for it, including rape and death threats. We’re all against rape culture until someone criticizes the all mighty kink and porn or says they were abused in a BDSM group.

        I have no plans to be a parent but if I was one I might have to become something of a Luddite because there’s too many internet predators.

    • Lindsay Beyerstein Says:

      There is an alternative. Reversible hormone-blocking drugs can delay the onset of puberty and secondary sex characteristics until young person is old enough to make up their mind.

      These drugs have been used for years to treat various pediatric hormone disorders, so we know they’re safe, and that they wear off when the kid stops taking them.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Lindsay that is incorrect. Puberty blockers cause all sorts of changes the long term effect of which is unknown. For example, changes in bone density. Changes in regulation of blood glucose. Unknown brain changes. Possible correlation with onset of osteoarthritis later in life. Many other changes, the long term effects of which are unknown. That is why hormone-blocking drugs are seldom used, and used with caution, and for short periods of time in cases of children with endocrine disorders.

        “Transgender” children have no such disorders. They are physically healthy. And impeding normal healthy maturity chemically in healthy children is not an approved use of these drugs. They are prescribed “off-label” because they are causing dangerous irreversible effects in healthy children solely for cosmetic purposes. And for purposes of stereotypic sex-role compliance.

        They can make children horribly ill. See the experiences of the 2012 Trans Health Conference Key Note Speaker Ryan Cassada, who became so violently ill for weeks after each injection she was ultimately forced to stop “treatment”.

        In addition, bone growth is stunted and the children are prevented from growing to their natural height. This is a desirable cosmetic effect for males seeking to adopt a female appearance, but renders the Female “FTM”s much smaller in stature than even their nature female height, which is not a good cosmetic outcome for female children whose parents authorize these profound metabolically systemic yet medically unnecessary experimental “treatments”.

        Another note. All long term studies done on children referred for treatment due to “GID” clearly show that the vast majority of children report a natural cessation of distress following puberty. Most are gay. Yet the only long term study done on these experimental treatments showed that all 70 of the children placed on blockers at Tanner stage 2 – that is to say, 100% of the children- went on to start cross-sex hormones (which sterilize the children). Not one opted out. Significantly, the subjects were NOT followed past the start of cross-sex hormone treatments, so no data exists on their outcomes. This has caused wide speculation – and some alarm!- among medical practitioners who speculate that the use of puberty blockers actually CAUSES PERSISTENCE of GID symptoms in children who would otherwise undergo cessation of GID symptoms if left alone.

        Anecdotally, Dr Norman Spack of Boston Children’s Hospital states that only one of his experimental pediatric subjects opted out of sterilizing lifetime cross-sex hormone administration following blockers.

        Experimental treatments causing profound metabolic changes with documented permanent effects to bone density and unknown longterm effects – being given “off-label” to minors too young to consent- for purely cosmetic purposes, treatments that may in fact cause persistence of emotional distress that leads to opting into lifetime drug dependence, medicalization, and sterilization of a formerly healthy child simply cannot be framed as harmless. Nor reversible.

        I suggest you investigate the matter instead of parroting the press releases of those championing these treatments. And while you’re at it, talk to some Intersex activists about what they think about medically “correcting” the bodies of healthy minor children. Also, medical ethicists.

        You can start here:

        http://mishmich.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/leave-the-kids-alone/

        http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/transgender-children-an-intersex-activists-point-of-vie/

        http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/trans-advocates/Content?oid=8743338

        http://theconversation.edu.au/eugenics-and-the-practice-of-transgendering-children-3838

        http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=transgender+children


      • Two excellent responses by GallusMag to “investigative reporter” Lindsay Beyerstein. Further, one of those golden internet moments showing ‘Investigative Reporter Fails to Investigate’, and somewhat of a ‘Pink Slip Day’ for transgender supporters.

        Radical feminists are repeatedly told by transactivists and their supporters to “go educate yourselves” on the issues surrounding transgenderism. The truth of the matter is, we actually are rather well educated on the issues of transgenderism, primarily from a feminist point of view, but the human rights violations do not escape our notice.

        Transgenderism is a human rights issue, but not in the way presented by transactivists. It is a violation of human rights because of the mutilation and unnecessary surgeries upon healthy bodies.

        The modern medical profession has a very mixed track record, some good achievements, but also a long catalogue of barbaric experimentation, like labotomies and electro-shock treatment. Transgender ‘treatments’ fall into the latter category, whilst also generating significant financial gains to the doctors who provide these ‘treatments’. Those doctors have no conscience about many of the permanent bodily mutilations they are performing, as trans-regretters will attest.

        Whilst it is beyond the remit of radical feminism to really care about what happens to males who pursue this current trend – we only concern ourselves with the welfare of females, children and adolescents. Caring about men does seem to be within the remit of liberal feminists (with their general humanitarian viewpoint) who seem to care more about males. Liberal feminists, you are doing it wrong, even by your own standards.

        I suggest that trans-supporting liberal feminists “go educate themselves”.

      • GallusMag Says:

        It’s frustrating because Lindsay has the skills, the time, and the resources to do research – and I suppose I’m glad she is reading here for at least some counterbalance to the falsehoods that are out there- but she chooses instead to publish uncritical non-investigative, trope-laden pieces on “transgender children”.

        “Puff pieces” full of “played with dolls” and “born in the wrong body” and “loving supportive parents”. Total tripe. I assume it’s because she has no horse in this race so to speak, is not witness to the trans trend among adolescent females, has not experienced the swarms of hetero autogynephiles bullying lesbians and destroying female-only and female-centric organizing and gatherings. I assume the whole trans thing is a matter of a quick paycheck for her, a salable topic she uses to tide herself over while she investigates and researches matters of importance to her.

        Briefly googling her transgender pieces I came upon one on illegal silicone pumping that seemed to hold promise: She actually went out and met one of the pumpers and one of the victims. So, she investigated, up to a point. But the POV she seemed to put forward is that pumping comes about because health insurance will not pay for extensive cosmetic surgery via licensed practitioners! There was no investigation into body dysmorphia, GID, BIID, other disabling “beauty” practices, other surgical black market cottage industries, no analysis of how such practices are largely unprosecuted, no analysis of why the transgender movement prefers to keep silent on the matter and tacitly supports the practice through that silence, no drawing of the lines between the “underground” beauty mutilation and the “overground” beauty mutilation of a medical industry that is increasingly prioritizing elective cosmetic medicine over research in and treatment of pathology, no investigation into non-invasive treatments for body dysmorphia, no history of beauty treatments that disable, maim and kill. etc etc etc. No nothin’. No depth. No analysis. Certainly no feminist perspective.

        Again, I assume her interests are elsewhere and she finds transgender to be a quick paycheck. If her articles facilitate untruths and support the sterilization of sex-role nonconforming children and promotes the elective cosmetic medical disabling of such, it seems of little consequence to her.

        I did her job for her and gave her enough information in my comments to facilitate her research should she choose to make use of it. I suspect she won’t, because I suspect she doesn’t really give a shit at all about the medicalization of sex-roles and the explosion of cosmetic medical practice across the board. Much less the way the transgender political movement is codifying the enforcement of stereotypic sex-role conformity into law worldwide. Hence my irritation. Sigh.


      • I am told Beyerstein hangs with the other big names of liberal feminism, Marcotte (Pandagon) and Jill (Feministe). So I don’t really expect her or any of them to go much beyond the superficial.

        Besides, they cannot question the malestream view on gender/trans, because they would suddenly find themselves without professional platform, which is what happens when one declines the mantle of handmaiden.

        http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/category/trans/


      • And if you were in any doubt that the “Big Think” site was anything other than lefty males wanting to get their legs over, this was the ad on Beyerstein’s profile page that came up for the UK (“Mature Dating UK”). In the US, you might not see it.

        The Ad (link to the picture used)

        http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/simgad/12103787720518546015

        Beyerstein “Big Think” profile:

        http://bigthink.com/users/lindsaybeyerstein

        These liberal feminists live in a world where ‘sex work’ is regarded as “yay empowering” and going shopping with a gay/M2T BFF is “so girly”.


  5. I’m not saying females don’t have orgasms (so let me put that out there up front), but I will say females do not have orgasms as easily as males. Women have been saying this for centuries. Correct me if I am wrong but it was one of the main feminist complaints among equality feminists, –how, in hetero relationships men do not take the time to make sure women are sexually satisfied.

    I am focusing on orgasms because I think it is one of the most primitive elements not addressed in this whole transgender mess. Men don’t listen to women, never have. If so, males who wanted to be castrated would already consider the consequences of being castrated. No orgasm. Because males typically orgasm so easily I believe most of them take it for granted and just assume all will be the same post-surgery. Or in a paternal arrogance, believe they will be able to accomplish what females have not. Easy as before orgasms.

    If you note a pattern, the major sexual deviants among the transgender cult always keep their penises intact. This is because to them, it is all about their sexual perversions. They are not going to risk losing the tool of their sexual perversions.

    Not to conflate healthy sex with perversions.

    It is the naive transgenders (almost always homophobic as well) who buy into the belief that they need to become the opposite sex (a biological impossibility) and it is not until it is too late that they discover what they have done. They have made themselves into people who will never have sexual satisfaction. It is no wonder so many are alcoholics, drug users, and suicidal. Not that sex is everything, but sexual intimacy means a lot to a whole lot of people. And post surgery limits sexually intimate opportunities.

    The medical community is truly failing these people. They need therapy not drugs or surgery.

    • Lindsay Beyerstein Says:

      Actually, MTF surgery carries over some of the male orgasmic advantage into the new female body.

      The penis is essentially turned inside out to make the vagina, so all the nerves that used to cause orgasms are now lining the vagina. That’s like having the clitoris inside the vagina.

      The surgery isn’t perfect, but I wouldn’t be surprised if many MTF women have better orgasmic function than many cis women. And lots of cis women have inconsistent orgasms and still manage to love life and sex.

      So, obviously, the functionality of surgically constructed genitals is always going to be an issue. It’s certainly something trans folks and their doctors consider very carefully. But I don’t think the orgasm argument is especially persuasive.

      • GallusMag Says:

        “Actually, MTF surgery carries over some of the male orgasmic advantage into the new female body.”
        Actually, medical science cannot fashion a female body from a male one. It is a scientific impossibility. Did you misspeak?
        A female’s reproductive system is vastly complex. What surgeon’s do to transgender males is create a hole into the abdominal cavity up through the male pelvic gap (which is actually in a different place than a female’s) and attempt to create an inverted sheath of tissue which is supported by scar tissue instead of vaginal ligaments. This bears little to no relation to a female body.

        “The penis is essentially turned inside out to make the vagina, so all the nerves that used to cause orgasms are now lining the vagina. That’s like having the clitoris inside the vagina.”

        HAHAHA. You are incorrect. That is funny though. Wow. You just make things up, huh?

        The tissues used to create the fuck-hole/sheath vary depending on the surgeon and the procedure. The fuck hole/sheath is created using either penile, scrotal or bowel tissue, or a combination of the three. Experiments are being conducted transplanting buccal mucosa. The nerves are severed from this tissue prior to insertion into the surgical cavity. Those nerves are instead bundled roughly where a woman’s clitoris would be (I say roughly because due to the pelvic differences the “neo vag” can never be placed where a female’s reproductive organs lie and are always a few inches further back, between the prostate and the rectum. This often creates an overly sensitive painful lump resulting in decades of pain and suffering that you can read described here. http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=98958.0

        BTW the prostate continues to ejaculate if orgasm is achieved post operatively, although of course the fluid contains no sperm. This can cause other problems depending on drainage.

        Fistulas between bladder and fuck-hole or rectum and fuck-hole are common, as is chronic granulation, frequent bladder infection and prolapse. Read one account here:

        http://www.bilerico.com/2010/06/sex_reassignment_surgery_when_things_go_wrong.php

        Only one long term study of neovag/fuckhole outcomes has ever been done. High incidence of the above are reported, as well as a total average long-term fuck-hole depth of between only 2 to 3 inches, as the body succeeds in rejecting the surgical “neovag” fistula over the years.

        Why don’t you actually investigate by listening to post-operative trans people themselves? Read Montreal Gazette columnist Jillian Page’s heartbreaking and cautionary account of his unhealing perpetually bleeding ulcerous “neovag”, still bleeding after three years post operatively.
        Read Suzan Cooke of WomenBornTranssexual blog’s account of coming to terms with a lifetime urinary bladder to neovag fistula?
        Go to transgender support sites and read what people are saying, and ask questions. You know, investigate. Don’t just regurgitate the press releases of surgeons hawking their wares.

        Did you know that less than five percent of “full-time” transgenders ever get genital surgery? And of those males who do, many- like Autumn Sandeen, who bravely chained himself to the white house fence in a stolen military uniform- opt to simply have their balls removed? Why do you think that is? In the UK where SRS is free the percentages remain similarly low. So it isn’t a matter of cost. Unlike yourself, trans people actually listen to the things other trans people say about their post-operative experiences. Try that.

    • Branjor Says:

      If males orgasm easier than females, it’s a wonder nobody ever thinks of the obvious. Quite simply, it’s because patriarchy is the biggest turn-off in the universe for women, and the biggest turn-on in the universe for men. It’s a wonder women orgasm at all.

      • ThatGuy Says:

        Such stupidity… Such heterocentric ignorance.

      • GallusMag Says:

        That Guy is a heterosexual woman calling Branjor: a lesbian! stupid ignorant and heterocentric. You hetero genderists are too much. Literally.

      • Random Radfem Says:

        Like really, I mean, anarchistic lesbianism is just so passe these days . . . being a self-loathing straight women is where it is at! So edgy! (<<INSERT EXTREME SARCASM)

        If I were rolling my eyes any harder, I would be looking at my own uvula.

      • branjor Says:

        A heterosexual woman hoping to be raped by a man calling me stupid, ignorant and heterocentric? Excuse me while I laugh.
        Also, she seems to be reduced to sputtering by my comment that maybe a patriarchal society, which caters to men and shits on women, would act as a turn on for men and the opposite for women. I guess common sense is a bit too much for her.

  6. BadDyke Says:

    “I am focusing on orgasms because I think it is one of the most primitive elements not addressed in this whole transgender mess. ”

    I think this is a very interesting point. Despite stuff on the internet claiming that M2T can have ‘vaginal’ orgasms, given that they’ll NEVER have the whole mass of complicated erectile tissue that is the clitoris, then this is nonsense. Transplanting the tip of the penis, or whatever it is they do, ain’t the same, as we know. In fact, perhaps what they THINK is a ‘vaginal orgasm’ is just the prostate getting stimulated from penetration of their new second arsehole, hence same gay sex, just different hole (which means they get to call it hetero!).

    UPDATE: After a quick google, found that yes, this IS the claim! They think that:
    “They leave it in and it does become your G spot and the orgasm from it is quite pleasurable”
    their prostate is their new girlie G-spot! Because magic oestrogen makes it so…………………..

    More appropriation and mis-understanding of female anatomy……………..

    F2T, as far as I understand, they keep the clitoris anyway, even with phalloplasty. Hence what they may think is their handy-dandy new penis (chunk of arm), is actually just the same ole clitoral tissue doing it’s job.

    What is interesting is the LACK of knowledge of female sexual anatomy, either from those who think they’re going to GET it by means of their new arsehole, or by those who think they’re replacing it with a lovely penis.

    Note: Looking for scientific papers, I found one measuring sexual response (whatever that means), butu DOES say that:
    “We conclude that male-to-female transsexuals display male-typical category-specific sexual arousal following SRS..”
    So, response is STILL male, as we might have guessed.

    • ThatGuy Says:

      As an Ft_M_ (You dickhead) I can promise you we aren’t fucking DELUSIONAL about what our physical limitations are, and what is happening during a surgery.
      Guess what? EVERYTHING STARTS FEMALE. Dumb shit. The penis is nothing but an overdeveloped clitoris. That is how human development works. You think we don’t know full fucking well that a phalloplasty is arm skin?? IT CAME FROM _OUR_ ARM/THIGH. We’re not fucking stupid.

      That is precisely the reason that so many FtMs don’t GET bottom surgery, because we like to fucking orgasm. Most of us understand that the surgery is a crapshoot, and those that don’t know that- get bottom surgery.
      No guy in his right mind, whether he has a dick or not, is going to risk giving up his orgasms unless he feels he isn’t taking that big of a risk.

  7. Grace Says:

    @BadDyke, can you please supply the link to that study, “response is STILL male.”

      • BadDyke Says:

        GM, you’re a STAR!

        Quick read of the paper, seems to show (however, SMALL numbers of M2T subjects) that the ‘male body female brain’ hypothesis doesn’t seem to be supported when responses are measured. In terms of other responses (where we can all be very sceptical anyway as to the degree by which males and females differ anyway), either intermediate between males and females, or in some cases MORE ‘feminine’ than actual females. Plus one participant who claimed to have switched sexual orientation (attracted to women before SRS, and claimed to be attracted to men afterwards), the physiological measures didn’t support that, and the authors hypothesize that he is CLAIMING to be attracted towards men because that legitimises his claim to be a woman.

        Overall, seems to me like they are all trying to be what women are supposed to be, and in terms of the supposed gender -specific measures to do with spatial rotation, gender-specific vocabulary and all that jazz, PRIMING means that they will try and fit the pattern that is supposed to be the female one, because that is what they are convinced they are. In effect, if they know that women are supposed to be good at this, they will become better, just as men told men are supposed to be bad at this (and women better), will, surprise, surprise, tend to agree with that priming. Whereas if they’re NOT told it is some gender-specific test, but some test of intellectual ability, their scores will magically improve.

        I note that the lead author of the above paper (Anne Lawrence) is M2T and admits to suffering from autogynephilia, and hence his name is mud amongst the trans community because he claims that that the female brain hypothesis is wrong.

      • Adrian Says:

        @BadDyke – I’d love to see a study go one step further, and feed the test subjects some FAKE DATA about “women are good at [some random task]” and then have them do some related task, not supposedly related to gender testing at all, but the task just HAPPENS to involve some aspect of the thing they were fed the fake data about, and see what happens.

        I can’t help but be reminded of people who so desperately want to prove that they’re affiliated with some culture to which they don’t actually have any ties, that they learn a bit of the language and then drop words into their English (to pretend to be code-switching because they “can’t help it”) but in actually eff it up hilariously because they don’t actually have a natural grasp of the language they’re claiming they “can’t help using.”

  8. bugbrennan Says:

    http://www.williamsons-solicitors.co.uk/clinical_negligence.html

    this firm is meant to be one of the better ones and accepts legal aid and/or no win no fee.

  9. alamia Says:

    Holy crap, did you all watch that documentary on Ria? Start at 30:50 and look how Ria reacts with physical violence and threats when his sister tells him to stop drinking so much.

  10. Interrobang Says:

    I get really bitter at times about these people. If only they hated their bodies as much as I do; then they’d know what it’s like to *really* hate their bodies. But what am *I* going to do, have gimp-to-able-bodied reassignment surgery? I wish…

  11. Marie-France Lesage Says:

    I am really struck, again, by how ALL the male “trans women” seem to have these ridiculously over-done “glamour shots” taken of themselves. I’ve been female for over five decades and I’ve never had a “glamour shot” taken — neither have the vast majority of my female friends and family, despite several being very physically fit and 100 times more beautiful than these dudes.

    I can’t believe how OBVIOUS it is to me that this is abnormal behavior, yet the male “trans women” and their enablers all seem to think that spending endless hours posing and primping for the camera is normal female behavior. Bizarre.

    The vast majority of us are TOO EXHAUSTED from working, caring for our families, exercising, running errands, paying bills, doing our arts or crafts, gardening, sharing quality time with our friends, volunteering for our community, etc. to spend thousands of hours and hundred of dollars on pseudo-celebrity style photographs of ourselves.

    This obsessive production of self-porn should be a red flag to any competent psychologist or doctor.

  12. BadDyke Says:

    “This obsessive production of self-porn should be a red flag to any competent psychologist or doctor.”

    Yep, autogynephilia and a perverse attraction to the male-construct of ‘femininity’ — NOTHING whatsoever to do with actual females.

  13. sheela Says:

    “And if you were in any doubt that the “Big Think” site was anything other than lefty males wanting to get their legs over, this was the ad on Beyerstein’s profile page that came up for the UK (“Mature Dating UK”). In the US, you might not see it.”

    Hmmm, that site also reveals her as a total big pharma puppet, using the pretext of attacking Michele Bachman as a cover for pushing the pro compulsory vaccination line (which according to the NIH itself, isiatrogenically kills hundreds of thousands a year ) So not exactly radical, and not genuinely left, either.


  14. For years women/older women have been emotionally abused (or it has been attempted) by being labeled sexually frustrated when/if she ever expresses anything other than total submission in every environment, work/home/school. According to many men, her problem, regardless of what it has to do with, all boils down to her being sexually frustrated. Often the complaints women express are dismissed by men as the grumblings of a woman who not only “needs to get laid” but a woman who “cannot get off.”

    In a sardonic, schadenfreude bout of irony, I say, males who have attempted to become “women” (they will never become female) have successfully achieved not actually becoming a woman, but becoming the trope that males have successfully used against real women. These men (M-t-t) are in fact sexually frustrated beings. They have become the stereotype that men have tried their damnest to create and use against women in order to silence them.

    Honestly, I can do nothing but laugh my ass off. Congratulations, M-T-Trannie, you have become a copy of a stereotype!

    • Marie-France Lesage Says:

      “Oh what a tangled web we weave,
      when first we practice to deceive.”

      — Scott

      Yep. There is a soupçon of masochism blended into their narcissism. By indulging their unwholesome self-sexual obsessions, heterosexual male “trans women” render themselves sexually repellant to the vast majority of other human beings, male and female.

  15. FeistyAmazon Says:

    You can see just by the video, when that dude went out with his sister and all, he was rubbing up and down on poles, hitting on guys right and left, indiscriminately, which they said no bio woman would do, and then at the end when his sister was disgusted with his(very male) and rude behavior, he hit her. and they got into a physical fight. So, his very male hormones were out of control, he hit a woman, and he sexualized himself in a way no bio woman would. DUDE no matter how feminine they are dressed.

    Your factoids here fascinate me, thanks for the intelligent discussion, information and references..and what I could handle of that video…..there is NOTHING different about them, almost all MTF’s act in that prostitute I’m so fucking hot way, and the total obsession on femininity and ‘looking good’ but not the down and dirty jobs most women are relegated to, whether it’s childrearing or caretaking of others, or helping another woman whose been victimized by a dude, or something positive and nurturing like growing some flowers and beautifying an environment for others, not just for one’s narcissistic self.

    Having gotten tattoos myself, which are permanent(unless you want the painful reality of lasering them off, which is a very intensive process that really doesn’t work all that well), I waited till I was 30, got clean and sober(all my tattoos have been recieved in sobriety), and really thought about what designs I wanted and what I wanted them to be…..to think I waited till 30, and yet these kids are being fucked with these hormones at teen, pre-teen years, permanent permanent changes that may or may not be able to be undone, is entirely SCAREY to me. I have changed much over the years, especially my tomboy teen years, where I didn’t fit in at all…and HATED being female and relegated to feminine roles I did NOT fit in with, EVER, and resisted all my life….to have a movement come along and say: You can be empowered and free if only you sign on the dotted line and take hormones and have surgeries…actually one therapist mentioned that choice(but FTM surgeries weren’t really being done then, 1980), and I thought about what it’d be like to have a penis for a week….after that week I made up my mind, YUCK. And shortly after that came out as a Lesbian! And NEITHER have I ever gone back!

    Just saw a show on ‘American Sex’ tonight and basically it said you can’t tell anything about someone’s statement of their sexual orientation and though 9% of women have engaged in Lesbian sex, only 2% have said they were Lesbians…..and I thought, yep that’s the misogynist male media for you! Making us seem such a minimal part of the population!

    And when I came out, I felt freer than anything….I can’t understand WHY they hate us so much(the FTM’s/Genderqueer) and want to mutilate their bodies so badly, except that sex roles have become even more stratified than ever before. Keep on keeping on the good work Sisters!
    -FeistyAmazon

    • Eina Says:

      People changing their bodies how they see fit doesn’t mean that they “hate” you or anyone else. Please don’t make negative assumptions about strangers, especially based on their gender identity. You wouldn’t like it if people did the same to you, especially based on your lesbian identity.

  16. Prince Says:

    How do you get over feeling like you are a man if you are really a women?it is unacceptable in my family and I have no money for a psychiatric evaluation.I’m not crazy anyway.

  17. anon male Says:

    http://rt.com/news/third-gender-birth-germany-592/

    transgenders officially coop intersexed in germany

  18. red Says:

    I think there are a couple fail safes there, unless of course trans really don’t know what a penis looks like, as in : “women have penisezzzz too-ooo-oo.”

    “Parents of newborn infants will be allowed to leave the gender form on the child’s birth certificate completely blank if it is born with unusual physical characteristics making it impossible to determine the gender.

    The new law will apply to intersexuals, also known as hermaphrodites, rather than transsexuals. Hermaphrodites are people in possession of both female and male physicalcharacteristics. “

  19. Beatrice Says:

    Well, your Gender Identity, like your Sex, is something you’re born with. Usually, the two match up, but sometimes, they don’t.

    Understandably, this is hard to accept for most people. They were born with a Gender that matches their sex, so it’s natural to think that it’s the way all people are.

    The stereotypical view of transgendered people is that they’re all sexually deviant crossdressers that choose to become the other Gender of their own free will. This line of thinking is incorrect. The reality is that it’s a horrible ailment that will slowly kill a person over time unless they get help.

    Most Transgendered do NOT feel the need to cross-dress, but rather, the real issue is in situations where they are forced to dress up as their perceived sex. Situations like this can feel very awkward and should be avoided if possible.

    Also, many cross-dressers are not Transgendered. Rather, they simply enjoy dressing up as a man or a woman for whatever reason, but still completely identify as male. Some may take their fantasies too far, even surgically altering their body.

    It’s true that some transgendered people do become sexually deviant. But this is almost always due to hormones during puberty, and difficulty dealing with a body that is getting further and further away from their gender, leading to times of confusion, insanity, depression and suicidal thoughts. For those that have lost all hope, this can give way to any number of sexual practices. It can also lead to Crossdressing and GRS.

    As the transgendered person gets older, these feelings often wane, but by this time, they’ve created a shell that is hard to break. They’re often in a soulless, isolated zombie-like existence brought on by years of trying to both live with and deny their gender. There is often an outside appearance, an attempt to fit in as someone who matches their physical sex. But as they get older and older, Gender Dysphoria becomes more and more intense.

    As for treatment, it’s very hard. This is because you can’t a person’s physical sex, and can’t change their gender identity either. So, both counselling and “transitioning” actually have very limited success. In fact, these often actually make the problems much worse.

    What’s most important is learning to cope, not changing who you are either physically or mentally, but being honest with people who will be accepting of you. The problem is finding people who will be accepting of you for who you are.

    You will need to cry a lot, there will be times when things are overwhelming, so you will need a support network for that. Just don’t delude yourself into thinking that a surgery is going to change anything, because usually, it’s not. It might in a small number of people, but that’s the exception, rather than the norm.

  20. Brunhilda Says:

    eug. Why aren’t any of them in school? Also, he needs to grow a brain.


  21. […] high-profile cases of teens seeking reversal of effects of pediatric medical gender […]

  22. ThatGuy Says:

    I am FtM trans and I think I know why the girl in the article is doing what she is doing.

    Probably the same reason I’m considering being non-op, and considering just not telling people I’m trans anymore: Because love is important and people are stupid.

    People are stupid and don’t understand gender because they don’t have to. Cisgendered people take gender and sexuality for granted.

    Regardless of how you feel or what you believe about how “real” transmen or transwomen are as men or women, respectively, the point of the matter is that WE DO. If you think we are all delusional, then you know what? Fine, go ahead and think that. I won’t argue our realness. I’ll even make myself write it.. “We’re all nutball delusional and our “real” gender is the same as our genitals.”
    But you NEED TO UNDERSTAND, please try, that our “delusional” gender effects our experience of the world in the same ways that your “non-delusional” gender effects yours. If I am delusional, then my delusion is that I am a male and the delusion comes from my soul. Blame my poor, crazy, delusional soul if you need to, but, I feel male, and that isn’t something I am choosing to feel. Just like your gender-emanating-genitals feeling of male or female isn’t something you choose to feel. It’s automatic, and it’s not changeable, is it?

    You could act like a girl/boy, though, right? So, lets say, for weird random argument’s sake that:
    Oh, shit! It’s Voldemort!! Phoof- Avada Cockvagera! OH NO!! Your gennies just got the switcheroo, but your brain stayed the exact same. You can now, or conversely can no longer become pregnant. You now have, or now no longer have boobs/balls/vag/dick. You now bleed, or now no longer -lucky!- bleed once a month. You now no longer, or now get boners. Etc. Yet you still feel the expectation of these things as normal in your life.

    Now you have to act the way your crotch looks, or people will treat you badly, Or maybe even kill you, depending on how they feel about what you think about your junk (Weird, I know). You can act like your junk, right? Girls are girly, guys are manly, bow or curtsie- what? There’s more to your gender than that?

    Well that doesn’t matter. Your vagina/boobs or penis/manchest does, not what you _feel_. What you feel couldn’t possibly matter, it’s how you look on the outside and how you act.

    See what I’m getting at? It’s a shitty situation. And love makes everything more complicated.

    I am gay (I’m attracted to men), but gay men don’t generally see me as a man. Even if I had both surgeries (I already visually pass pretty well) I wouldn’t be considered a guy by most. Finding someone I am compatible with -who is accepting of me as male- is almost impossible. And this is on top of all the USUAL problems that everyone has with finding the right person in life.

    Now, if I were straight, I would probably want to get the surgery more, because women love the shit out of me. I don’t know why they like me, I turn them down left and right (I know, I sound like a dick, but I’m not into chicks and I don’t want to lead them on) and if I had a dick and the will to use it on them, I’d be knee deep in women. Not all transmen have it this easy, life just finds tragic irony hilarious, I guess.

    It’s weird with straight guys. Because I’m not a dumb fuck with a death wish, I tell people the truth about me up front before they know me long enough to feel betrayed and confused. Usually, they’re still cool to be friends with me They don’t seem to know what to think of me though. They’ll usually tell me “being a guy sucks”, “you don’t want to be a guy” and stuff. Eventually, though, they DO see that I am a guy, and think of me that way for the most part- but as long as I have girl bits they’d probably still have sex with me, if we all got drunk enough and I told them my birth name lol. But, if I got my junk, it would be game over and who knows what they would do, or feel. I know they wouldn’t consider me fuckable any more. No matter HOW drunk.. At best I could hope to be raped at that point. =/

    So, I can live in a shell of myself, and have a decent chance at finding love- but a love that probably doesn’t know or doesn’t accept the me I feel is the real me. OR
    I can be myself, and probably die alone, longing for human contact, never having known a functional relationship.

    Fun choice.

    • cerulean blue Says:

      ThatGuy, What does it feel like to “Feel Like a Man (trademark pending)?” How could you possibly know how that feels since you aren’t born as one? How do you even know there is a difference between how it feels to be a man and how it feels to be a female? Me? I’m a female, and I feel like a…. human. My sexual organs have nothing to do with the way I perceive myself. They DO have a great deal to do with the way I have been treated since birth, however. Be honest. This is what you dislike about your primary and secondary sex characteristics, and this is the reason for your dysphoria. The fact that you have breasts, a uterus and all of the other female genitals has caused you to be treated like a second class citizen. And hating the genitals your were born with is one way of dealing with it. But the other, less harmful-to-yourself way of dealing with it is to hate instead the institutions that cause women to be treated as inferior from birth. Don’t attack yourself. Attack the real agent of your pain.

      Also, you know nothing, ThatGuy. About human development, that is. The clitoris and penis are NOT the exact same thing. They start from the same tissue but develop into structurally and functionally different organs. Please crack open an anatomy or developmental biology and educate yourself to the level of everyone else commenting here. You sound foolish.

    • LC Says:

      You are a horribly confused, self-loathing straight woman if you think the phrase ‘I could hope to be raped’ at ANY point. Get help, and stop pretending that your gender or sexuality issues are more interesting than anyone else’s. They’re not. Your obsession with yourself is making you miserable, and I’ll pray that someday you realize that and get out of this cycle. But no one owes you sympathy or understanding. That’s just life.

      • Random Radfem Says:

        Her whole rant is tragically sad. Truly pathetic. This is a woman who is absolutely convinced that women are without value. Afraid that she is not “fuckable” to men, no matter “how drunk” and she can only “hope to raped”. It makes me cringe to write that.

        FtT reeks of homophobia- the ones who partner with women (as “the man” in the “hetero” relationship) and also the subset who wish to be gay men themselves. It feels like the misogyny and the self-hatred are all the more glaring in the ones who “identify” as gay men. All women grow up under the jackboot of male superiority but these women still believe in heterosexuality, they still wish to have heterosexual sex, but also want to feel like a valid human being (ie, a man) and an equal partner in that M/F relationship. How do they work that out and still feel like a human being?

        You cannot change your sex. A female can never be a gay man- biologically or socially. What you can do is challenge and defy the social role assigned to you simply by living as a woman on her own terms. It sounds easy enough, but it is not. It is tough, but it is possible to be a woman and a valid person. I LOST MY SELF HATRED ASK ME HOW!

        Young women caught up in trans insanity really need to wake up and realize that gender is a prison and not a celebration. It is only a celebration for the guys who can slip it on and off like a cute dress, which almost all of them do. At least over her in Reality-land when things are unfair, gross, violent, etc., we can call them out as such, which we do, often, hence this awesome blog :)

    • GallusMag Says:

      “Now you have to act the way your crotch looks, or people will treat you badly,”

      Feminists are working against this.

    • Adrian Says:

      My choice? I choose to fight for a world where by no means do I have to “act the way my crotch looks or people will treat me badly.”

      I was born a woman. I have female genitalia and reproductive parts. However that says precisely zip about my thought processes.

      I reject the notion that there is any “natural” “matching” between thought processes, personality, and genitalia.

      My “identity,” such as it is, is human. Alas, that hasn’t stopped people from telling me that because I have certain genitalia (read: assumption I can and will get pregnant, regardless of actual fertility status) I “naturally” can’t do this and that job or activity. It’s not something I can just “identify” out of, either – which is the entire reason we need feminism.

      It seems you realize this too, when you admit that in the current system, “Your vagina/boobs or penis/manchest [matter], not what you _feel_. “

      I imagine you don’t like to have sex with men as a woman. Actually, quite a lot of women don’t, because of what it means in society.

      Anyway, for me, I chose feminism. I guess you can say I “crossdress” daily, but I’m not trans. I like my body. I don’t like what my body causes others to think about my spirit.

  23. Morag Says:

    I think it’s nearly impossible for any woman to entirely escape self-loathing. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t extreme/delusional examples of female self-hatred (e.g., for ThatGuy, being a gay man is superior to being a straight women, and rape would be better than nothing at all, because in a loveless existence, at least that’s something). Rather, we’re all colonized to some greater or lesser degree. Het, lesbian, bi or any of the varieties of queer–no female, no matter her sexual orientation, and gender identity/presentation, can individually transcend a power that is bigger, deeper and stronger than herself.

    In Dworkin’s book Intercourse, there’s a chapter called “Dirt/Death,” in which she makes an argument that the inferiority women experience daily is not petty or superficial, or an aggravation, or a matter of other people’s sexist attitudes and assumptions about women, but that it’s a real assault–a real thing in a material sense, with real and profound consequences. Seems obvious, but the obvious is always in danger under male supremacy. She wrote:

    “Inferiority puts rightful self-love beyond reach, a dream fragmented by insult into a perpetually recurring nightmare; inferiority creates a person broken and humiliated inside. The fragments–scattered pieces and sharp slivers of someone who can never be made whole–are then taken to be the standard of what is normal in her kind: women are like that.”

    She goes on to say that it is the female body itself that is stigmatized in patriarchy, that is made dirty and contemptible, both literally and metaphorically. The female body is inferior, therefore, all its experiences and perceptions and articulations lack human weight and reality.

    That some women come to “realize” that their female body is a big mistake, a mismatch, and that there’s now a ready-made trans-narrative to account for this, makes a terrible kind of sense. That is, if we accept that inferiority is more than a psychological pathology, but an actual social condition, more or less pronounced, depending on a woman’s unique circumstances.

    So, gender: yes, I agree that it’s a prison, and, of course, that there’s no natural “match” between gender and genitals. It’s also clear that gender policing enforces male superiority. But I’m becoming skeptical that the process of fighting to unglue gender from biological sex will free women. Do gender roles create inferiority in the female sex or undergird it? If gender is given a complete make-over, or somehow abolished, the female genitals, reproductive organs and functions, and secondary sex characteristics remain. If the stigma that creates inferiority is on the female body per se, and that comes first, then escaping from gender is not really a true escape, but a diversion.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Abolishing gender will not stop men from raping and using other violence to try to control our reproductive capacity, which they lack.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Escaping from gender is not a diversion but a weapon.

      • Morag Says:

        To clarify, because my writing got muddled: escaping from one gender by transitioning (medically, socially) to the other–yes, that’s a weapon that enforces the idea that gender is natural and in-born. 

        At the end of my last comment I was attempting to say something else. That women, even if we continue to challenge the oppressive restrictions of gender, and are more and more successful in escaping certain aspects of our assigned role, we would still bear the mark of inferiority, because that is rooted in our sex, which, unlike gender, is immutable. By diversion, I meant a strategy that doesn’t quite strike at the root.

      • GallusMag Says:

        I don’t think your writing was muddled. I read it exactly as you intended and responded to it.

        “At the end of my last comment I was attempting to say something else. That women, even if we continue to challenge the oppressive restrictions of gender, and are more and more successful in escaping certain aspects of our assigned role, we would still bear the mark of inferiority, because that is rooted in our sex, which, unlike gender, is immutable. By diversion, I meant a strategy that doesn’t quite strike at the root.”

        Eliminating gender does not strike at the root. Abolishing gender will not stop men from raping and using other violence to try to control our reproductive capacity, which they lack. It creates the conditions that will allow that strike. The weapon.

      • GallusMag Says:

        The Ax, if you prefer… ;)

      • Random Radfem Says:

        “It’s also clear that gender policing enforces male superiority. But I’m becoming skeptical that the process of fighting to unglue gender from biological sex will free women. Do gender roles create inferiority in the female sex or undergird it? If gender is given a complete make-over, or somehow abolished, the female genitals, reproductive organs and functions, and secondary sex characteristics remain.”

        Maybe I am missing your point entirely, but you seem to be saying that the female body is, in its basic, Platonic essence, inferior to a male body and that abolishing gender will still leave us with our weak, less-than bodies? It is not the female body that is inferior, but the social role and attributes assigned to us based on being the owners of our female bodies. Gender is the whole of the politics that surround our bodies. Gender is the codification of the stereotypes used to oppress.

        Strength and confidence are gender codified masculine traits and weakness and fragility are feminine. There is nothing about the female body itself that gives rise to these traits. Pregnancy and birth are not for the weak and fragile- there could not be anything that highlights the strength and capability of the human body, the female body, more than than the act of giving birth. Where does the inherent inferiority of the female body reside?

        Radical feminism is not about “gender policing”. I think the term is absolute horseshit. To police someone’s gender, I would have to believe that it is something more than a set of social/sex-role stereotypes. I don’t think that seeking to “unglue gender from biological sex” is a pointless act- I think it is necessary that we dismantle strictly enforced codas of appearance and behaviors based on one’s sex. Men have used gender to oppress women and non-conforming men for thousand of years. Gender benefits men- all men. The trans nutsos wish to erase the fact that women are an oppressed class via our physical bodies and reproductive function. Scarily, they are taking steps to erase women as a legally recognized class. These guys are only a small, but highly visible, reminder of man as colonizer, of oppressors co-opting and minstrilizing the oppressed.

        In abolishing gender, women will be free to live in a world fully equipped with the STRENGTH and POWER of our female bodies and the agency to decide what they mean to us.

      • BadDyke Says:

        ” Men have used gender to oppress women and non-conforming men for thousand of years. Gender benefits men- all men.”

        I guess I’d say you CAN’T get rid of/attack gender without recognising WHY the gender system exsits and WHO benefits.

        So, in this sense gender isn’t the ROOT, sex is the root in which this is all based, that ‘mark’ that we’ll always carry. It’s part of the toolkit by which the sex-based power structure is enforced/maintained/justified.

  24. Morag Says:

    “Maybe I am missing your point entirely, but you seem to be saying that the female body is, in its basic, Platonic essence, inferior to a male body and that abolishing gender will still leave us with our weak, less-than bodies?”

    No, not inferior in its Platonic sense–of course not–but (artificially and profoundly) marked as inferior. That’s to say, both a lie AND a social reality. Also, to varying degrees, a psychological reality for individual women; one extreme being a woman who, for example, wants to remove her healthy breasts and reproductive organs, to destroy her female body, in order to better present herself as a man and live as a man.

    About abolishing gender: I was thinking about what it would mean to abolish gender roles if those roles, and their enforcement, are built upon the foundation of female-body-as-inferior. Would that foundation remain intact? Is it even possible to abolish gender, rather than just keep working at reforming it, if its very roots are, possibly, millennia of female inferiority?

    I hadn’t thought beyond that point, but obviously, others have. If I understand, Gallus says that this is where the axe comes in–AFTER the abolishment of gender. The double-headed axe, I presume? (smile)

  25. cindylou1967 Says:

    The problem I see with a lot of trans these days and its just my view, is many feel they have to prove they are opposite sex by going through all the treatment and once they have done it they are never happy except for a few. .

  26. cinon Says:

    I think confused people should first go through a few years of treatment with a psychologist that will try to reassure them that they are what they are and not what-they-feel-at-the-moment, and fix any and all psychological problems related to their past.
    If it fails, the person should be made aware of the negative consequences of gender reassignment and forced to think about them for a year. THEN the person may undergo whatever surgery he/she wants to undergo, making sure there are no regrets.

    • farishcunning Says:

      Agreed. I think most, if not all, would-be trannies suffer from depression, which if aggressively treated would go a long way towards easing their low self-esteem that plague them.

      • LC Says:

        Sadly, that option seems to have little support among the transactivists, in my experience. The obsession with surgery-or-“you want us to die” only appears to help wealthy white m2t who don’t want to pay for surgery themselves. It’s a brilliantly manipulative strategy, and one they’d never get away with if they were actually members of an oppressed group.


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