GenderTrender is a Big Meanie
February 11, 2013
The OP of this post: “groovemastergeneral” is Transgender Male Rights Activist and Anti-Gay activist Cristin Williams. He also comments below as “two”
submitted 10 hours ago* by groovemastergeneral
Last year, the Southern Poverty Law Center rightly classified the men’s rights movement as a hate group. However, they are yet to turn their attention to another insidious group – RadFems.
For the past couple of years, RadFems have lead the way in using the internet as tool to incite hatred against transgendered people.
Indeed, there are now dozens of RadFem websites devoted precisely to this purpose – with ‘RadicalHub’ and ‘GenderTredner’ arguably being the worst offenders.
As time passes, their rhetoric and activism are becoming increasing aggressive – with some of them even going so far as to ‘out’ transgendered people without their consent.
Disturbingly, some of the most prominent RadFems are even being given platforms to spread their transphobic bigotry in mainstream publications. Take for example, Julie Burchill’s recent Observer article.
Thus, I believe the time has come for us to persuade the Southern Poverty Law Center to recognise RadFems as the hate group they truly are.
Who’s with me?
There is no doubt that hate is core to their motivation. They don’t bring any real benefit to their lives by attacking trans women, we are basically an outlet for them to take out their frustration. I’m sure their lives are quite shitty, to have so much ugliness inside of them. Happy people don’t put down minority groups without any sensible cause or reason.
More to the point, the hateful fervor on some radfem blogs definitely seems capable of inciting violence, so I believe they meet the definition of a hate group in every sense of the word..
Don’t forget us trans* men! I had no clue what GenderTrender was when I was searching for resources about two months ago. I felt sick and depressed and guilty for weeks, even after I figured out it was just a bunch of RadFems. They focus their ire on trans* woman most often, but they’ve not ignored us “betrayers”.
I know some Radical Feminists who are trans allies. In fact, trans liberation is impossible without women’s lib and the destruction of oppositional sexism.
However I agree that the TERFs, the “trans sceptical” types and whatever else is full of bigots. If it was just an ideological disagreement, they wouldn’t make so many attacks on trans women’s personal appearance. But people like Julie Burchill are motivated by hate.
LONG LIVE THE TRANS CABAL!
Do these “Radical Feminists” hold the same anti-trans ideological views of radical feminism over the past 4 decades? Do they view trans folk as pawns of the patriarchy? Do they reject the notion that everyone is born with an innate sense of their own physical sex?
If they reject core values of the RadFem movement over the past 40 years, why do you consider them RadFem?
Is it the name? No offence intended, but I’ve come across a lot of folks who identify as being RadFem because they agree with the areas of RadFemism that overlap with 3rd wave feminism and they think the name sounds cool. But, unless you agree with the core RadFem dogma published by RadFem leaders over the past 40 years, you’re not a RadFem. Maybe you’re a militant 3rd waver, but unless you’re stuck on the fringe of 2nd wave feminism, you’re ideology doesn’t look anything like the RadFem ideological movement as pushed on their sites, conferences, meetings, literature, speeches and slogans.
Below is a link to the post, terrible, triggering etc. Radfems have lots of friends, especially in NYC where I was living at the time. This article honestly set my transition back a year, I’d like to consider myself unfuckwithable and no other aspect of the TV experience effected me, but this and the email/comment campaign they launched against me really, really hurt.
It was the first time I had noticed this group as hateful, I thought radfems were the happy, openminded dreadlocked girls I’d meet at Zucotti park, not a bunch of hateful fundamentalists. I was shocked that so-called allies would be so cruel. I learned through this experience that wherever you go or whatever you do, there will always be people out looking to subjugate others. Many transpeople attacked me for being into regression, where other regressionists attacked me for being trans… See the futility of all this?
If I was a sad, empty person I’d say its human nature and can’t be avoided. But it clearly can, this board is full of people treating each other with respect, many feminists, trans or otherwise “enlightened” folks support all kinds of people and even ::gasp:: occasional act altruistically. Hateful people like these radfems don’t believe those kinds of people exist. Everyone’s a pervert and they’re all out to get them. It probably makes them feel better about themselves or deal with some sort of anger/trauma inside, kinda like why people watch My Strange Addiction, to boo and hiss at the freak and feel above someone.
I couldn’t bear to read this again, the comments are terrible, pure hate, they said things that I couldn’t believe how sick and graphic they were. I was devastated, I thought my transition was sexist and I actually believed them for a minute. Dark times, but I’ve learned from it and realize what their game is, and what a dirty game it is.
If you need an example of how bad they are, here’s this link. Really, really ugly stuff on there, so please tread lightly.
Wow… as a feminist, I’m sorry. I saw that episode (love that show, though they use the word addiction when I haven’t yet seen an actual addiction on the show), and thought “huh, that’s weird, but I know babyfurs so whatever. Live and let live. I didn’t even realize you were trans until they actually mentioned it… so you know, there’s a score point for you!
But reading those comments, not only are those people misinformed but they seem uneducated and way too obsessed. I just can’t understand why they let their hate rise so much. The core of feminism isn’t making women better than men, it’s about helping women and men (trans, cis, or ‘other’) to become equal… Those people are fucked up in the head.
I doubt they are all like that, and I certainly don’t doubt that a radfem or two has seen the way they treat transwomen and went OLLIES OUTIE but hey, at least they stick to their own corner of the internet… assholes.
When i’d talk to radfems friends online and around the city about that, their reaction was always disgust.
I used to think it made sense,
- I’m a radical (favoring drastic political, economic, or social reform)
- I’m a feminist (advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men)
So I’m a radfem, right? I thought that label might have fit until finding these hate sites, now I’ve often (though not exclusively) found that label to mean radioactive feminist.
Thanks for the positive thoughts and for bringing this to the light OP, it’s the media they put out is absolutely hurtful, I’m sure i’m not the only one who’s been singled out and harassed (cyberbullied?) by them.
I just can’t see the words “male transgender” without synomizing it with “trans man” even though I know the words are opposites to radfems. It makes reading articles like this very confusing. :P
And what the heck does “mistrelizing” mean? I just don’t get these people. What’s so hard about live and let live?
That makes me sick. I’m so sorry you went through that. Sounds like a multilayer horror of self doubt. It’s so crazy how a stranger can cut to the bone, even when you know deep down it’s not true. I’m glad you are in a better head space now. :)
That part right there, people booing and hissing at others to feel above someone else. It drives me crazy to watch people do this…Sure, I see it a lot because of my living arrangements, but it doesn’t change the fact of how annoying and hurtful it is to see these people act and treat people that way.
For example, this guy and his parents I live with does this every chance he gets, to try to be right and always gives that look to others like they’re retarded, when he does absolutely nothing with his life, sits around wasting time just watching tv and playing games by himself.
Really makes me wish I had the money or know how to move somewhere else. These people hate people like me, and as such I can’t even start transitioning until I can be in a safer place.
Anyways, got off topic for a second so I’m sorry. I just wanted to say that it’s so terrible what those people did you a wonderful person like you, and I hope that things are much better for you now. <3
Sometimes I think people misunderstand infantilism more than they misunderstand transsexualism. In any case, hugs for you.
Many transpeople attacked me for being into regression, where other regressionists attacked me for being trans…
And this is ridiculous, too. I don’t even… why?
Read Fem ARE a hate group . As a Cis man I have seen nothing that shows me any thing but hatred from radical feminists , they are not interested in equality at all . The goal for them is to quash any male or Transgender person for their own self gratification as a “victim” . Apparently all men are rapists even though I was raped by a woman in college this must never have happened or I am deluding myself and that I was the one raping the woman.
I found it funny (should I as a victim? I dunno maybe it cos I tend to just let what happened slide) I take my actions very seriously to those of the same of opposite sex . I can’t think of any reason to excuse rape and I think of women as my equals and that some women are better at things than me as a person , but I also know that there are things I as a person can do better than some women .
In recent surveys in the UK 50% of lesbian couples will be raped by their partner . Yet in heterosexual couples only 30% by the partner were women , 30% were male raped by the female partner the other 40% did not say (so it could have been a different family member or stranger) .
Quick! Was this statement made by rad-fem leaders or rad-right leaders?
“This was a man, everyone recognized it’s a man, going into the women’s restroom. Now whether that person has good or ill intentions towards women, no one knows, but the fact of the matter is when you defy common sense and when it says ‘women’s fitting room’ and you allow people other than women in that fitting room, you’re just asking for trouble. This is just an absurd policy… [women] may be watched by a peeping tom or even worse, sexually assaulted or raped.”
I’m saddened, but not surprised at all, to see how many people are in here engaging in RadFem apologetics, saying these statements aren’t indicative of real
Scotsmen feminists (or even real radfems), or even saying that radical feminists are allies.
For those calling out the MRM, I have a question. How should men organize to call attention to their own issues, such as disproportionate prison sentencing, biased custody and child support laws, and male rape erasure?
Some would say, “That’s patriarchy! They should be feminists!” Yet feminism is called feminism. It’s about women, regardless of claims to the contrary. Feminism has vocally opposed words like chairman and mailman, saying they are sexist terms, but keeps the gender-stratified name of its own movement. Why? Because that’s where the focus lies. And that’s fine. Fight for a cause you believe in. Fight against injustice against women. But don’t claim men never have any problems of their own, that’s disingenuous.
I support feminism, and I support the men’s rights movement. I’m genderqueer, what sense would it make to only want one gender’s inequalities addressed? I’ve been thrown out of two different women’s groups for not being a “real” woman. Nobody even protested. Some jeered at me. No men’s group has ever had a problem with me, or with cis women showing up. Once or twice, people have complained about a “tranny” or “freak” being there, and they’re told to pipe down and stop being assholes. This is in the American South, mind you. Do I say all feminist groups are bigoted hate groups because those two were made up of pricks? No. Similarly, I don’t excuse the behavior of those bigoted men, but I know it’s because they’re bigots, not because of their chosen social cause. Radfems, on the other hand, have distinguished themselves as a distinct subset of feminism by organizing and self-identifying around certain tenets that go outside the bounds of gender equality, namely vitriolic opposition to anyone other than cis females.
I know a man who was being regularly beaten by his girlfriend. He wouldn’t defend himself, even to push her away, because, well, “you don’t hit women.” He should have just left, but he didn’t. Stupid him. One day, he had enough and called the cops. When they got there, the cops arrested him. He was bleeding, she was untouched, and they arrested him. They left her in the house, because she said she lived there. She didn’t. The cops just took her word for it and wouldn’t let him protect his things. She stole a bunch of his stuff, wrecked the place, and even pressed charges against him for battery. When he tried to press criminal charge, the DA declined. He couldn’t afford a lawyer for a civil suit. He got off with just anger management courses only because she didn’t show up to court. He’s celibate now, and in therapy because he’s terrified of women. Terrified. He can’t be alone in the room with one, even with me, if I’m presenting female at the time. When I asked why he was uncomfortable around me (expecting it was cause I was trans) he nearly had a panic attack, afraid I would get him in trouble with someone. With whom, I don’t know.
Though an extreme example, such procedures are institutionalized in many places. Even if it were a one-off case of people abusing their power (which it wasn’t, the Sheriff’s policy says the man is always taken away and the children are always left with the woman. There were no children in this case, however.), if he were a woman, he could have gone to a shelter. He could have gotten a pro bono lawyer from the local battered women’s center. He could have raised a hue and cry in the media. But as a man, there was nothing. No organization. These women’s support agencies are crucial to the fight for gender equality, but they won’t help him, despite claiming to be for equality. What feminist organization would dare defend a man against a woman? So men try to organize their own movements to fight these injustices. Then they’re labeled as misogynists and rapists. Yet when a feminist spews hate about men (or trans people, as we can see), they are lauded by their peers, rather than censured for it.
Patriarchy isn’t the problem, and it never was. It’s kyriarchy. It’s not “men” fighting for inequality. It’s a group of very powerful men fighting for themselves. Their goal is just to keep anyone from gaining more power, including less privileged men, because they want it for themselves. It’s the status quo being rigidly enforced by wealthy, powerful old men who simply cannot abide the world being anything other than they way they want it. Painting an entire gender with their brush only distracts people from the class-based source of the injustice. Gender equality should be the goal, but the politics of the gender equality movement has been to push women on top for so long, its forgotten about the root of the problem, and it doesn’t seem to care either.
When someone points at someone’s gender as a reason to make a judgement about them, that’s wrong. It’s wrong when men say it about women, it’s wrong when women say it about men, it’s wrong when cis people say it about trans people, and it’s wrong when trans people say it about cis people. If a person is a shitty human being, it’s because they’re a shitty human being. Genitals and gender don’t enter into it.
The Men’s Rights Movement has a problem in its disruptive, hate-driven members. A serious one. It isn’t particularly well-organized of a movement, so it’s sort of fumbling around blindly trying to do something about it. It might not work, because anybody trying to step up to do something about those people is lumped in with them and lambasted. That would be tragic, because it would just send a message to men that nobody will, and nobody can help them. In contrast, the disruptive, hate-driven members of the feminist movement are in organized positions of power, and feminism in general is doing nothing to curtail their excesses, or even to acknowledge them as a problem.
It shocks me how intolerant these “liberal” groups are . My girl friend is TG . I’ve never thought of myself as gay . I was married but she just sucked the life out of me , I was a Jehovahs witness , and you know they showed more understanding and more tolerance to people and their beliefs than these rad fems have .
When i left that religion it was because I knew my life choices were not compatible with it , the last words said to me by one of the pastors was “wish you well” and shook my hand . Even though my life was add odds with his beliefs he showed me respect and wished me well . I can’t ever see a Rad Fem ever doing the same .
Coming from a conservative Christian background I’m sickened by the intolerance and segregation found in such “liberal” groups , the rank stench of hypocrisy wafts through these groups .
I love and support my girl friend and that is important to me . I view her as the most precious thing in my life . She asks if her being trans bothers me ; amazingly I never even think about it . She is just my lisa.
I disagree that radical feminism is a hate group, and all radical feminists are transphobic. I agree many radical feminists hate trans women, but transphobia is not a core tenet of radical feminism, not like how hatred of LGBT people is integral to some religious faiths. There is even a trans woman who is a radical feminist.
Having said that, I think radical feminism attracts women who are transphobic, especially towards trans women, for a variety reasons. First of all, I have read that transphobia towards trans women is more common among the lesbian community than the rest of the queer community, and many radical feminists are lesbian women. Also, misandry seems to be more common among radical feminists, and leads to hatred of trans women because of their refusal to recognize our gender.
Secondly, radical feminism at its core reinforces the beliefs of people who already hate trans women. Radical feminism sees the discrimination against women and enforced gender roles and decides that gender is the problem. For radical feminists, the whole concept of gender is a tool of the patriarchy to oppress women, and the way to have equality is to eliminate gender. In my opinion, gender seems less the problem than, you know, discrimination and enforced gender roles. This goal of eliminating gender leads to some radical feminist seeing trans women as agents for patriarchy because of the concept of gender identity, and because they see the stereotype of trans woman as feminine and attracted to men as reinforcing gender-normativity. Never mind that most cis women are gender-normative, to them it’s only trans woman who are the problem.
Yes, radical feminism is different than trans exclusionary radical feminism. With the huge caveat that those who are inclusionary radical feminists have often not done enough to learn about trans issues and how that affects feminist theory.
I think the major problem is radical feminist literature is at best cissexist and usually outright transphobic. So the whole foundation of radical feminism leads people to cissexist and transphobic beliefs, especially when they are ignorant towards trans issues.
Please name 3 RadFem books that aren’t anti-trans. I’d like to check them out. Every RadFem book I’ve looked at viewed trans issues as just one huge validation of the patriarchy and therefore bad.
Also, please give an example of 3 RadFem leaders who aren’t anti-trans. And, please give me an example of where RadFems organized to support trans equality legislation.
I get that there are people who call themselves RadFem (because they think it sounds cool) without really knowing that the core ideologies of the RadFem movement over the past 40 years has been explicitly anti-trans. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the movement is explicitly anti-trans. That’s like claiming that the KKK isn’t racistbecause of this.
Woooow. What the fuck?
Some of the things I took away from a quick glance over this breeding ground of discrimination were:
- BDSM exists purely as a one way street for male doms and female subs, and never vica versa.
- Transsexual people are, I quote, erasing female reality by identifying themselves as a different gender other than the one they were born as
- Porn stars are all victims. Even the filthy rich, long-time performing ones like Sasha Grey and Jenna Haze. ‘Pornography is the act of making hate to women’s bodies.’
- Porn stars have a shelf life. Forget MILFs, if you’re over 21 you’re too old. All of them too old: Emma Starr, Monique Fuentas, Lisa Starr, Nina Hartley.. wait what?
This takes the cake though: taken directly from their declaration on http://radicalhub.com/about
- We are female-identified, women-born women and are collectively anti-pornography, anti-prostitution, *trans-critical*, and PIV-critical. Many of us have specialized interests as well, such as motherhood, post-modernism and what it did to feminism, the harms of penis-in-vagina sex (PIV), the “transexual/transgender” movement, femininity, and the “sex industry. Please read the comments policy; the discussions on this blog are reserved for female-born women only.”
For real? What the fuck is wrong with these women. Their views don’t help feminism in any way. If you act like a cunt people will associate your cause with being a cunt. They aren’t flying the banner of a just cause (to which all women anatomically or not should be entitled to benefit from) they are marring it.
It’s awful that because of radical feminists,some people just assume all feminists are like that.This for an example.
The guy in the comments just says the whole feminist movement is like that,and saying you are a non radical feminist equals saying you are a good nazi.
So I read this and almost vomited. Be warned, it could be pretty triggering.
These radical feminists would like to believe that our dysphoria is constructed out of some selfish, ‘rape-culture based’ desire to do…what? According to them, to be better than women. Apparently, from what else I’ve been reading on RadicalHub, the radfems are arguing that, since we were ‘never women in the first place,’ we have no right to determine what a women is, even if we identify as such. Apparently, we’re propagators of rape-culture and patriarchy, motivated by male-dominance to do…what? I guess to tear down the whole image of exactly what a woman is. Or some bullshit.
This RadicalHub website is a fountain of hatred and lies towards trans* folk and I am very sorry for the human race that it exists.
No. RadFem is correct. Yes, there are SOME (few) who claim the radfem identity who don’t hate on trans folk, but practically ALL RadFem books and sites are explicitly anti-trans and have been for the last 40 years.
Some want to call these folks TERFs, but that’s BS. It’s not having the courage to call a spade a spade because it might offend someone who calls themselves a RadFem (because they think it sound all cool and militant) without knowing the RadFem movement’s stated aims and goals – which ARE, in fact, explicitly anti-trans. The “don’t paint everyone with a broad brush” argument is BS.
RadFems killed Filisa Vistima. RadFems are where most of the anti-trans memes came from that still haunt the trans community. RadFems were the first (in the 1970s) to advocate for (to TWO US administrations, no less) a national program of forced reparitive “therapy” for all trans folk. They worked with a racist anti-feminist lawmaker to ensure trans folk’s access to health care was cut off (don’t have health care, thank a RadFem. At one time ALL your trans care was covered). They are the folks who began to push to throw trans folk under the bus as the queer community marched forward with the push for equality. They are the ones who began a national program of outing of trans folk (this went on for years) for the explicit goal of ruining their ability to get a job.
Anyone claiming that RadFems aren’t a hate group is simply uninformed or willfully obtuse.
Ok, I’m not really familiar with radfems. I thought that it was just a subset that were anti trans.
Edit: Did some googling, so much arrogance in one place! Not even on trans issues, they seem to think they are right in every way and that if you disagree you are part of the ‘machine’.
Exactly. And it’s not that this is a few rotten apples, the core dogma of this movement – over the past 40 years – is rotten. Yes, there are SOME things that I can agree with them about. However, that doesn’t change the fact that their endgame is a world without trans folk in it.
I know it’s easy to hate on rad fems since a large portion are shitty, but it’s unfair to paint all rad fems with the same brush. I’m trans and definitely have some radfem leanings (i.e. being critical of PIV intercourse, being critical of pornography and BDSM, etc.). Dworkin even had some positive things to say about trans people (disregarding her last point about us disappearing in an androgynous society): http://www.womanist-musings.com/2009/08/andrea-dworkin-on-transgender.html
And this black guy has some positive things to say about the Klan. That doesn’t meant that the Klan isn’t a racist organization.
You might be a Christian. The Klan is an explicitly Christian movement. You might both agree that Jesus is awesome, but that doesn’t mean that you endorse the core goals and values of the Klan, right? Similarly, you might think the patriarchy sucks. You might agree with the RadFem movement that the patriarchy sucks. But, I’m guessing that you don’t agree with the RadFem movement’s states goals and values with regard to trans folk.
The Klan movement is racist in the same way that the RadFem movement is anti-trans. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but those exceptions don’t wipe away decades of a movement’s explicitly stated aims and goals.
I find her statements patronizing. She really thinks that I’m a cultural women in a man’s body. She really thinks that none of us are born with an innate sens of our own physical sex. Her ideology is an albatross around the neck of trans research.
Simply pretending that point #3 isn’t an integral part of her message is like a Christian picking and choosing dogma that fits their personal narrative. She sees transsexuals as poor saps – pawns of the patriarchy, because nobody has a subjective and innate sense of their own physical sex… nah, it’s all just cultural. Transsexuals change their sex cus’ society fucked them up. That very dogma lies at the heart of the very worst of what RadFemism has to offer.
She’s no more helpful than John Money. Both advocate sex changes for the same reason and both of their dogmas have ruined lives.
I don’t know if ‘the radfem movement’ is even as cohesive, as, say, the MRAs. But these days when you look at places like the infamous ‘radicalhub’
* – it seems like hating on trans people is pretty much what it’s all about.
* (which to reddit represents all radical feminists everywhere) (which they do because reddit likes easy and popular targets) (which they have become only because of /r/mensrights and their attempts to dox them) (and anytime reddit doxxes somebody that’s the goto poster child of the alleged group) (I mean seriously reddit, do you know any other self-declared radfems at all? these threads might be more productive if you could actually name new names)
a.) There is a movement which has existed in America over the last 40 years that calls itself “radical feminism”. They have symbols, leaders, jargon and events. This is a movement. To claim that something with these features is not a movement is being willfully obtuse.
b.) This movement has dogma. This dogma comes from the writings of their leaders. These writings are explicitly anti-trans and informs a dogma which seeks to achieve a world in which there are no trans people in it. To fail to notice this fact is, IMHO, another example of being willfully obtuse.
Question: Do you think that the infamous radicalhub pushes an ideology that hasn’t been a defining part of radical feminism over the past 40 years? If so, please provide specific examples of radical feminism over the past 40 years that stands in stark contradiction to the ideology pushed on radicalhub.