Transgender Tropes 101

December 26, 2010

This is a reflection on a comment left on this post: https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2010/12/20/t-mod-girls-tweeners-trenders-and-fun-with-censorship-and-death-threats-2/

The commenter’s words are in italics below.

I’ll prob do a revised/extended post on trans tropes in future. Feel free to add your own in comments and I’ll include them. Thanks. And thanks to niksebastian for taking the time to comment.

Have you investigated transgender people beyond Dirt’s blog?

[Transgender Trope #1- Trans questioners and critics must not be informed on the topic.]

I’m sorry you see them so negatively. Let me see if I can explain my perspective on it – I hope you’re willing to hear me out.

FTMs are not upset because they do not fit into the typical image of females.

[Transgender Trope #2. Trans people have no problem living outside of gender roles. It’s sex they want to disguise, for no social reason whatsoever.] (Of course females don’t want to fit into the typical image of females. The typical image of females is a sexist, sexualized stereotype and only males who objectify females and get off on the thought of inhabiting a female “object” would want to “fit into” that role.)

Or at least, not true FTMs.

[Transgender Trope #3- The trans person considers themselves uniquely authentic. Others disguising themselves as opposite sexed are pretenders.]

There are many FTMs who are in fact feminine, with eyeliner and manicures, and they date men. They were never “butch.” It would make no sense for them to transition because of societal roles, because they see more media examples of women like them than men like them.

[Transgender Trope #4 Males who don’t fully conform to masculinity don’t receive male privilege, men who wear eyeliner are treated socially exactly the same as women.]

They move from the comfortable position of a healthy straight woman …

[Transgender Trope #5. The social position of women is a comfortable one.]

…to the highly uncomfortable position of a gay man who is anatomically abnormal.

[Transgender Trope #6. Disabled or differently abled persons are not gendered by society.]

They realise the potential negative effects of testosterone,

[Transgender Trope #7. People don’t embrace things that are risky or unhealthy.]

the high violence rate against transgender people,

[Transgender Trope #8. “People” commit violence against the insufficiently camouflaged transgender. *psst, it’s men. MEN commit violence against other MEN and against WOMEN).

and the fact that they may lose the support of their family, friends, and government.

[Transgender Trope #9. People don’t do body modifications to marginalize themselves, or as part of belonging to subcultures.] Piercing, lobe stretching and face/neck/hand tattoos, bizarre plastic surgeries, anorexia, bulimia, BIID etc. say otherwise.]

They transition because even if everyone else finds them beautiful, even if they see a pretty girl in the mirror, that’s not what they want.

[Transgender Trope #10. People have a “right” to see their personal ideal in the mirror. And if one’s appearance is not ideal, one cannot be happy and fulfilled. Transgender Trope#11.Society treats beautiful women better than average or homely men.]

They dream as men, and wake up surprised at what they find.

[Transgender Trope #12. Humans can’t fantasize so intensely that reality surprises them.]

It’s as if a woman had a penis sewn onto her – she will always know it’s not meant to be there.

[Transgender Trope #13. Being born in a healthy body is equivalent to being subjected to a Nazi Doctor’s transplantation experimentation. Transgender Trope  #14. Trans people are physically deformed or disabled.]

Contrary to the image depicted by you and Dirt of trans as a trend, there is no trans crowd or even visibility in my area, or anywhere nearby.

[Transgender Trope #15. Behavioral memes are spread locally from person to person. The media and online trends and virtual communities have no effect on people’s lives.]

I have met two or three transwomen, in their 20s and 30s, within a 2 hour radius of my town, and only one transman, 6 hours away.  In New York, 1/3 of trans youth are disowned and kicked out of their homes.

[Transgender Trope #16- made-up statistics sound authoritative and significant.]

1/2 attempt suicide, nationwide. [*see trope #16, above.]

[Transgender Trope #17- emotional distress=authenticity of one’s delusion.]

Peers are slightly more accepting than older generations, but bullying of trans teens is practically universal.

[Transgender Trope #18 all gender nonconforming people are transgender. Transgender Trope #19-refusal of bystanders to participate in and affirm non-consensual fantasy equals cruelty.]

Trans people cannot visit certain countries for fear of death.

[Transgender Trope #20.Transgender people being treated the same as other women, or homosexuals, or gender non-conforming people is uniquely unfair.]

The insurance system has denied transmen coverage of both male and female exclusive treatments.

[Transgender Trope #21- It’s unfair for medical providers to decline unnecessary treatment for healthy people. Transgender Trope #22. For-profit insurers and providers that decline coverage for pre-existing conditions should make a special exception in the case of transgender.]

Saying transgender people are transitioning because it’s cool is like saying depressed people commit suicide for the glory.

[Transgender Trope #23- “transitioning” is like a form of suicide.]

Also, you misunderstand the “trans-trender” last quoted. “Transgender” is in fact an umbrella term, [See T Trope #1.] and it doesn’t mean that everyone who is trans is the opposite gender of their birth sex. It involves people who are “genderqueer” and enjoy presenting as both male and female at different times. Trans = transcending. Transcending gender norms.

[see Transgender Trope #18- All gender nonconforming people are transgender.] (Everyone transcends gender norms. Because the norms are fictional. Transcending gender norms has nothing to do with biologic sex, or using medical or surgical body-mod to obscure or disguise ones sex.)

You can be masculine and still be female, of course, but many people [*Many FEMALES*] self identify as both butch and trans, because they’re proud that they go outside of “binary” – the idea of two, restrictive gender roles.

[Transgender Trope #24. Females and males who reject gender roles are not truly female or male.] (Claiming that women who reject female social roles are not actually female is the opposite of revolutionary. It’s sexist gender conservatism.)

[Transgender Trope #25. Gender roles are not artificially imposed by a political system specifically to control humans who are capable of gestation, but are instead organic and tied to ones physical self biologically or neurologically according to ones sex.]

[Transgender Trope #26. A new sex-based gender binary (cis/trans) should be added to the usual one (female/male) because binaries are good.]

They weren’t at all instructing girls that they’re male if they’re not feminine, simply saying that transcendence of gender, to some extent, even applies to Dirt. [Transgender Tropes #18,19,20,21]

I’m curious – how do you explain transwomen? With this idea of it as a trend, embracing the oppressive privileged gender, transwomen would be acting contrary to logic. They not only withstand the same discrimination as FTMs, but they willingly give up male privilege.

[Well you already claimed above that there is no privilege to being or appearing male, but okay. Transgender Trope #27. Male privilege does, or does not exist, according to one’s argument.

Transgender Trope #28 Privileged people choosing to “go native” and act out their fantasy of life in the underclass are the same as those who have that class forced upon them from birth.

Transgender Trope #29 A lifetime of privilege and supremacy training can be erased from one’s learned behavior through an act of will based on one’s fantasy of occupying the lives of the underclass that one observes.]

There are two types of male trans. The vast number of transgender are hetero male “Autogynophiles” who get a paraphillic fetishistic thrill pretending they are female, that is to say those who willingly adopt an appearance to “pass” socially as a member of the underclass do so because they fetishize and want to colonize the imagined experience of the female underclass that they objectify. They are the foot soldiers of the gender conservatives, those that believe that gender roles are so entwined with biologic sex that they seek to disguise themselves as female bodies in attempt to experience inclusion in the world of females that has been off limits to them as members of the oppressor class (“going native”). That’s why most men trannify in middle age after marriage and male privileged career and children. They fashion their bodies into a woman-suit as the ultimate mid-life gift to themselves after a lifetime of autogynophillic sexual fetishism.

A much smaller number of gender-nonconforming gay males “Homosexual Transsexuals” trannify to fit in better with conservative heterosexual social norms.

They accept that they may never fit the ideal of female beauty.

It’s not about being an ideal beauty (although the more money one has to spend the “better” female body model one can purchase- of course hands and feet cannot yet be cut to smaller size.) It’s about being treated as a sexual stereotype that one believes in perpetuating and wants to occupy and “experience”.

It’s a difficult world for them, and transmen too, regardless of what you say.

I say those that are born male receive enormous privilege compared to those born female. Females that disguise themselves as male receive privilege when they are successfully disguised.

It’s a difficult world for women and girls.

*Videos are examples of Autogynephilia*

103 Responses to “Transgender Tropes 101”

  1. Bluetraveler Says:

    Those 2 videos are straight out of the Uncanny Valley. If those two aren’t autogynephiles, then I’m Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    (though I don’t believe the autogynephilia or homosexual transsexual models really fit everyone.)

    Lol we are basically saying many of the same things without first reading each other. Maybe what we have to say is real and easily observable…

  2. Bluetraveler Says:

    I’d also add two things (sorry for the double post)

    *some FTMs often idolize gay male homosexuality and gay male culture (even though society clearly doesn’t). So in that light it would make sense for them to transition: to be the object of their adoration, and/or to escape the female social cage. A guy in a dress after all can still take it off.
    (See: Adrian Dalton)

    *While it’s men who most often use physical violence in dealing with the gender-nonconforming, and I’m not denying that in any way, women, probably due to female socialization and less brute strength on average, don’t use it nearly as much but they are not less aggressive for that. “Backstabbing”, spreading rumors, emotional abuse and so on…I was presenting as gender nonconconforming in high school and most of the people who teased me were female.

    • gallusmag Says:

      Interesting thoughts… Blue don’t worry about double triple quadruple posting all you want. Gender nonconforming women are welcome to take up all the space they want here.🙂

  3. Bluetraveler Says:

    And (oh s*it, triple post! I’m really sorry), as for tropes:

    *NEVER ever ever tell a trans person they might not be really trans, even if they almost said so themselves (a FTM who hates facial hair and would like to look like Bill Kaulitz?), and even if that could spare the latter from some horrible lifelong treatments. It’s disrespecting another person’s personal identity (NEVER ever ever tell furries they are not really foxes trapped in human bodies. It’s disrespecting another person’s personal identity)

    • gallusmag Says:

      It’s like Muuuuuuurrrddddeeerrrrrrrrrr !!!!!!!!!! ha

      Jesus I’ve been a biggo dyke my whole life. All kinds of people, xtians, whoever think homosexuality isn’t “real”. Who gives a shit? No one ever said I had a RIGHT for other people to THINK (or pretend to think) that my experiences are authentic. Just give me and my kind the same tax and social security benefits that all other taxpayers get, and don’t kill us, and we’re golden. You don’t have to like us or “respect” us.

      Anyway there’s a big dif between being respectful and being forced to play a non-consenting role in someone else’s kink. If I call a male a male and it interrupts his fantasy- tough shit.

      • Bluetraveler Says:

        Exactly. You can’t really control how other people see yourself. This doesn’t mean they should desrespect you, but you can’t expect them to share your beliefs, even the ones regarding yourself.
        That’s why the comparision that a transperson made about me not being called a “woman” is faulty – the fact I am a woman is purely physical and objective, not tied to any ideology. See the vagina (well, I hope I don’t have to show it…)?

      • Hexydezimal Says:

        The trans community does have a serious entitlement mentality. The problem on your end is that you have absolutely no respect for any person on this end, whether they are fighting the good fight or not. You have displayed that very clearly toward me now, including being condescending and insulting over my sex. I am one of the most major questioners in the trans community and of other transsexuals in general, not you. I take all of the shit for that head on, whilst you carefully censor it away in your case. There’s nothing wrong with having some respect for some of us.

      • gallusmag Says:

        Hexy I’m not going to approve comments that are drunken rants that make no point (unless they are wildly entertaining) and I’m not going to allow comments from you demanding a response from people from other blogs who have declined to interact with you. Boundaries. It’s not censorship. I don’t have the power to censor your voice. But this blog is not going to be your personal toilet. If you have something intelligent or amusing to offer then that would be great.

        * and are you seriously claiming I “insulted” the male sex?

      • gallusmag Says:

        I do respect you Hexy.

      • Hexydezimal Says:

        I have never been drunk in my life. Why don’t we cease with the childish insults and start answering some of my points like an adult would. Kindly name any transsexuals that you respect.

        “I’m not sure how many comments from sexist [male] gender essentialists… there are a zillion places for [males] to spew their opinions… just because a [man] like you enjoys acting out and embodying that [male] fantasy.”

        Yeah, that’s not at all insulting and based on my sex; I can certainly see that you had the purest of intentions there. Being a woman does not excuse you from taking responsibility for the inherent sexism in those words, either.

        As for chatting with the kind of classy lady who makes comments like the above, I’d rather it be somewhere where you can’t censor anything I say. Feel free to email me a messenger contact that I can reach you on, and I will be more than happy to talk. I find it unpalatable to discourse when you control the flow of information.

      • Hexydezimal Says:

        [I do respect you Hexy.]

        Okay, I’ll bite. Why?

      • gallusmag Says:

        “Kindly name any transsexuals that you respect.”

        I respect Kate Bornstein. The only transsexual I have ever read (and I’ve read A LOT) that comprehends feminism and understands the falsity of gender. I don’t agree with everything Kate says but I respect.

        Anyways take care of yourself Hexy. Sorry things didn’t work out between us. Take care of yourself. I’m no kind of classy lady, you are definitely on the wrong blog.

      • Hexydezimal Says:

        I admire your honesty and in truth, I do like Kate. You must realize that she is rather like Fight Club where the community is concerned; “we do not talk about Kate.” People tend to get ugly when she comes up.

        I am starting to speak out about our reliance on gender myself, because that’s not what this is really about at all. It seems that way because the community itself ‘has a lot invested in that boat’, to quote a comment from Dirt when we were chatting.

        The psych establishment has turned the trans community into a monster with their gender bullshit, causing it to be inhabited by people who are ridiculously insecure. Turns out that basing their whole existence on something constructed like gender makes for fragile transsexuals indeed. Why did they do this? For lack of a better hoop that they could jump us through, and for their own selfish motives. They have a vested interest in using us to enforce the gender roles, because people like Zucker have been using ‘trans elimination’ as an excuse to force children into those roles.

        I absolutely did not sign up for this to be an enemy to women in any way, gallus; I want to make that clear to you. My increasing realization of what is really going on has brought a steadily waning desire for doing this. Women and lesbians come first to me; it is just that I do not appreciate being attacked for who I am.

        It brings me no joy to have to defend that far lesser aspect of myself against other women, especially when nobody the fuck else will step up and have the guts to do it. My thanks? Being bitched out and all but spit on by my own kind, more out of lack of proximity than anything. It shouldn’t come as any surprise that I have far more female friends than transsexual ones.

        I would love to think that we can have mutual respect for each other. I have a lot to learn from other women and especially lesbians; you will find that I am very willing to learn, to grow into a much better person with your help, and to share what I know with you in return. Do contact me if you like, and we’ll start on a clean slate. I am going to let all of this go.

  4. Hexydezimal Says:

    You weren’t actually doing too bad there, until I got to the part where you believe in the two types of transsexual. Are there some people who fit into those roles? Sure, but that’s like saying that every single human being fits into generalized boxes. What you’re supporting here is like saying there are only two types of lesbian. Since you believe in everything they say (especially when it pats your viewpoints on the ass), a male psychologist who has been screwing over lesbians will be along to tell you the proper classification for lesbians shortly. Sorry, but it’s impossible for me to take you seriously anymore; there went all of your credibility to talk about these issues. Better off quitting while you’re ahead.

    • gallusmag Says:

      LMAO. Hexy why don’t you say something interesting and intelligent. I know you can when you want to. 😉
      *Hope you had a good holiday*

      • Hexydezimal Says:

        You first. Believing in those two types is far from intelligent, if you bothered to do an iota of research into it (here’s a hint: many of us don’t fit into either). If a lesbian-hating psychologist started telling me about the classifications of lesbians, I would think he was out of his mind. Why is it so hard for you to do the same, vice-versa?

      • gallusmag Says:

        Why would forwarding a theory about classifications of lesbians be a sign of insanity? Even from a lesbian-hating psychologist? I would be interested in hearing such a theory regardless of it’s source. It’s fun to think about such things.
        If you’d care to dispute the Bailey Blanchard Lawrence autogynophilia/homosexual model I’d love to hear it.

      • Hexydezimal Says:

        It has been refuted repeatedly, up and down. I know for a fact that I don’t fit into either, and we had a discussion about who did on one of the forums I was on… not many did. The problem is that it is too absolutist to be true; if it were more flexible, then maybe it’d have a leg to stand on.

      • Bluetraveler Says:

        I’ll just add not answering to someone’s points, wheter that someone is trans or not, or because that someone is trans, is not correct in my opinion. I see you have already got over the fight between you two, but more generally, the kind of feminism who brands everything trans people say as “mansplanation” without bothering to list why is just as intolerant as the oppressive males they are fighting against.

    • gallusmag Says:

      I disagree Blue. i don’t think feminist blogs exist to answer to men. And I have refrained from posting half of Hexy’s comments, those that were just hateful rants, because women aren’t going to be subjected to that shit on my blog. Hexy you and I are officially parting ways and you know why.

      • Bluetraveler Says:

        Your stance on your blog is yours only, you are entitled to make the rules. The point I was making is that in the end it’s simply more logical and constructive, in my opinion, to explain where someone went wrong than saying next to nothing.
        Of course you don’t have to compromise your stance, and if you refuse anyone born male as feminist that’s your choice as well.

        I took myself out of that tricky position because, more than being interested in equal rights for females, I’m interested in equal rights for everyone and since females as a class are BY FAR more oppressed than males then it usually means granting more power to women and taking it away from men. But if we lived in an oppressive matriarchy (which is however, by its same structure, less likely to be oppressive) I’d speak in favor of male rights as well.

  5. Noanodyne Says:

    I have more to say when I can gather my thoughts, but I just wanted to say that you really hit it out of the park with this post, gallusmag.

    • gallusmag Says:

      Thank you Noanodyne! It was a bit disjointed (and long). I’ll prob make a tighter but expanded Trans Tropes post in future, sans the comment response.

      • Noanodyne Says:

        A Trans Tropes resource would be awesome. A reference along the lines of the Feminism 101 blog and Derailing for Dummies would be a huge help for a whole lot of people trying to get their heads around these issues. And just like those, it would give those of us trying to have conversations at a more advanced level reference points that we don’t have to keep explaining endlessly. We might actually be able to get somewhere rather than being dragged back through the same nonsense that has been covered a million times already. I have a selfish reason for wanting it beyond that. I’m going to finally get around to launching a blog soon (so I can post my rambling thoughts on things my favorite bloggers bring up rather than putting up 1000-word comments on their posts). Anyway, just wanted to throw in my enthusiastic support (not make tons more work for you😉 ).

      • gallusmag Says:

        Yeah, I def need to clean this post up into a nice tight list without the reader comment and without the somewhat cursory tacked-on autogynophillia definition. A Trans Tropes Bingo would be nice too, but the board would be very large,lol. I’ll clean it up and post a better version soon, thanks for the support.

        I’m not sure how much it will help us “get somewhere” in these discussions though. Trans politics have failed to come up with an answer to Radical Feminism for over forty years. I’ve been giving a lot of thought lately to the question of what it takes to help people who “can’t see the forest for the trees” gender-wise. There’s a reason those 70’s feminists actually got together and sat down in living rooms across the U.S. for “consciousness raising” groups where they could de-program each other. Might do a post on the topic when I’ve thought it out further.

        Looking forward to your new blog! Let me know and I will link to it. But any comments or thoughts you have are welcome here also regardless of length or rambling.

  6. Bev Jo Says:

    That was absolutely brilliant, Gallusmag, and I am so glad you’re not a “classy lady.” What a bullshit insult. That man’s pontificating is so incredibly male — as if he has the power to decide whether you’re making sense or not.

    I just love “being forced to play a non-consenting role in someone else’s kink. If I call a male a male and it interrupts his fantasy- tough shit.”

    Thank you so much for this.

  7. gallusmag Says:

    Hexy that comment you left was just gross (no I’m not going to post it). I’m thinking we should part ways.

  8. Bev Jo Says:

    I can’t see the latest postings showing up here like they did in email, but I want to respond in support of Gallusmag — men already control most of the world, and the tiny amount of space that is for females is constantly under siege. Some of us have been listening to female impersonators for 40 years. There is not reverse discrimination when it comes to sexism. Saying “no” to oppressors and female-haters is perfectly justified.

    I’ve seen Mr. Dexy’s female-hating rants before. He’ll go on forever if not stopped, with his male sense-of-entitlement.

    • gallusmag Says:

      I really tried to work with him Bev. That shit was nasty. I could say more but I won’t. It’s a good lesson to me as a new blogger. And that’s the end of that.

  9. Bev Jo Says:

    Good for you, GallusMag, for making this safe space for women. And thank you again.

  10. gallusmag Says:

    No problem Bev. I’ve got your back. Always.

  11. Bev Jo Says:

    Oh GallusMag, I can’t tell you how much you cheered me up. That means so much to me.

  12. gallusmag Says:

    Cheer up, sistah!🙂

    And that, mine peeps, is some sisterhood shite! Live and learn!

  13. niksebastian Says:

    Here’s my response – it’s very long unfortunately, even though I tried to be concise.

    First off, you do lose some credibility by posting a video of a latex mask fetishist rather than an MTF transsexual, or even an ordinary transvestite. The second video is posted under “crossdresser” and “transvestite” – not transwoman. He isn’t claiming to be trans, at all. If you want trans people to take your points into more careful consideration, those videos alone will make most of them irritated and immediately dismiss you. If you want to see a real transwoman, look someone like this: [LINK REMOVED]

    Trope #1 I agree with, mostly because when the voices of opposition to the transgender community are so similar, it makes one wonder if they are getting their information from similar sources – eg, Dirt’s blog. People can be well educated, however, and still criticise transsexuals.

    Trope #2 I don’t quite understand. You believe all trans people are uncomfortable bending gender roles? If they were uncomfortable with it they wouldn’t survive for a minute in the middle zone between realisation and actually passing. Yes, most FTMs prefer a male social role. Most MTFs prefer a female social role. They feel more honest that way. But for up to several years between coming out and obtaining hormones, if they wish to do so, FTMs are most often seen as very butch lesbians. For those that were previously socially accepted as women, this limbo often exposes them to a lot of previously unknown discrimination.
    On the other hand, I lived for most of my life as a very masculine girl, appearing to be a true radical feminist lesbian. I was fine with the fact that every once in a while a guy would be rude and inappropriate, and I took pride in responding in kind, often with violence. Honestly, I rather enjoyed the “kickass butch” image that I inhabited, bucking stereotypes and proudly wearing a suit when women around me wore dresses. My mom’s a feminist. She was unbelievably proud of me. But no amount of pride and respect among my peers could alleviate my uneasiness in my own skin.

    Trope #3 – I say “true FTMs” because there are women who question their gender at some point, and realise they aren’t FTM. I’ve read Bluetraveler’s blog, for example, and she has said that it was internalised misogyny that led her to believe she was male. Also, I don’t know a single trans person who would call someone a pretender for presenting as the opposite sex.

    #4 – You’re right, feminine men aren’t treated the same as women. They’re treated worse. In rural areas, as a woman, I could go anywhere and expect polite cashiers, smiles, chattiness from women around me, and prompt service. As a feminine, young looking man, especially with eyeliner, I earn suspicious glares, sneers, no offers of assistance. Last time I said “excuse me” while trying to pass two women in an aisle, one woman glanced at me, glowered, waited a moment, then said to her friend “better move out of its way.”

    #5 – see above. I certainly found my social position as a woman more comfortable. But it felt like a lie.

    #6 and 7 – you have fair points.

    #8 – “the insufficiently camouflaged transgender”? I won’t comment on this, because it implies that it is the fault of the murdered trans person that they were attacked and often raped before being murdered. It is enormously offensive.

    #9 – yes, some people may do so. But if you’ll take a peek at some forums, trans people are not proud of being marginalised. They are terrified, angry, humiliated, abandoned, and torn apart by the conflict of their love for their families and friends and their need to transition. Many don’t transition because of it. They keep waiting, until they’re in their 40s or 50s and can’t take it anymore. Then they either transition or kill themselves.

    #11 could be argued both ways, and it’s a messy and unnecessary argument. So onto #10 – trans people do not search for their personal ideal. They search only for something closer to it. In fact, those who undergo hormone therapy are advised that they are never going to reach their personal ideal, even through the addition of plastic surgery.

    #12 – Maybe “surprised” is the wrong word, then. But there’s certainly an aspect of “oh sh*t, not this nightmare again” that many transmen report upon waking.

    #13 – That’s not the point of my statement. It’s not a matter of deformity versus a healthy body. It’s a matter of a mental map of one’s body. Research has been done on reverse phantom limb syndrome, in which healthy men and women are absolutely convinced they are not meant to have one of their arms or legs. It’s been shown their brains are actually incapable of recognising those limbs as their own, even though sensation is registered. Specific research on transsexuals is now being conducted: http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-04-13/opinion/17146210_1_body-image-limb-phantom
    Sometimes, you see something that appears attached you your body, but you know with certainty it should not be there. That’s what I was getting at. You can’t change how attached you feel about that part or parts, and it will remain disturbing to you.

    #14 is a trope that trans people themselves are trying to disprove within the community. Trans people are born healthy, they simply have unusual bodies for their genders, and not deformed ones.

    #15 – Absolutely correct. But I would have thought that with the “trans trend” there would be evidence of a trend. In my area, there is none. Also, I knew I was trans without a fraction of a doubt years before I found an online community for it.

    #16 – just because you don’t know a statistic, doesn’t mean it is made up. The doctor who is prescribing me hormones has been networking with other trans-friendly doctors across the state, and that’s been their finding. (To be accurate, it was either 1/3 or 2/3, I chose the more lenient option since I was uncertain.) Half of trans people attempting suicide is a well known statistic, which you can find across the web. I believe many major advocacy groups, including mainstream LGBT ones, support this statistic.

    #17 – also true, but emotional distress does indicate a deeper root of feeling trans than simply following a trend.

    #18 – unrelated to what I was saying, but you’d need to argue that with those more educated on gender theory than I. Like it or not, many gender non-conforming people identify as transgender. They just see it as a label they can relate to.

    #19 – again, you more than border on offensive here. Might want to watch the phrasing if you actually want to reach trans people. Refusal to participate or acknowledge someone’s gender isn’t bullying, what I was referring to was trans teens being harassed and physically assaulted.

    #20 – last time I checked, there was no death penalty for female anatomy anywhere in the world. Yes, travelling as woman to certain countries can be risky. But it’s far more risky to travel as a trans person, to far more countries. This was one of the things that made me very nervous about transition.

    #21 – I’m not referring to hormones, which are certainly a touchy subject in terms of healthcare coverage. But FTMs who still have ovaries and a uterus certainly require pelvic exams and treatment for cervical/uterine cancers. They’ve been denied both these things once their gender marker changes to male.

    #22 – I fully accept that for-profit insurers can deny coverage of anything they want to. I don’t think it’s fair, but it happens. It’s their own business.

    #23 – makes no sense. That sounds more like an argument from anti-trans people. Suicide was the wrong thing to compare it to, but I was trying to make a point that transitioning leads to so many difficulties and disadvantages that it is nothing that someone would ever do because it seems fun.

    #24 – I don’t claim it, the butches claim it. I’m FTM, I don’t know why they choose to identify that way, but they identify as butch above female, though still female, and a shade of transgender. Trans people aren’t about to kick them out of the term for not being trans enough.

    #25 is again too complex to discuss here, but #26 is the complete opposite of what I want. I don’t like binary. I’d say the majority of trans people don’t like the binary gender system, because they’re told they’re not real enough for one side or another.

    #27 – nowhere did I say male privilege doesn’t exist. I did suggest, however, that male privilege is not so beneficial to someone that it puts an FTM in a better social situation than a woman.

    #28 and #29 – I’m sure most MTFs would rather they never experienced a male upbringing. Their childhoods are oftentimes filled with bullying, being called faggots and sissies. Their male upbringings were also very uncomfortable for them. Also, I’d like to point out that many transwomen are lesbians, and were never gay men.

    • gallusmag Says:

      I chose those videos because they illustrate Autogynophilia. If people have never seen a transsexual they can google. I’m not going to single out transsexual youtubes for individualized objectified “examination” because I think that would be pointless and possibly rude. And I’m not going to allow you to do it here either.

      You’ve really added nothing new here unfortunately so there’s no point in me repeating myself. Some of it gave me a chuckle though like the statement “last time I checked, there was no death penalty for female anatomy anywhere in the world”, and your absurd accusation that I implied “that it is the fault of the murdered trans person that they were attacked and often raped before being murdered” because I pointed out that trans people are more likely to suffer discrimination when they visually appear trans. Ho hum.
      Well, you took the time to type it so I’m posting it even though you conveniently ignore most of what I said. If I think of something to add that isn’t just repeating myself I’ll come back and add it after I’ve had more coffee. The network of trans doctors and their made up statistical findings and the other bull is making me yawn. What percentage of fictional suicide attempts were successful? What were the ages of the attempters? Did they require medical care and if so what kind? Did they receive psychiatric hospitalization? How was the data collected and over what period of time? How large was the sample group? Was a control group used? Were the fictional suicide attempts self-reported? What percentage of attempts were unsuccessful and why? Were reattempts made during the course of the study? Was a follow-up done? Were there precipitating or concurrent factors? Were the attempters transvestites, gender queer, pre-op transsexuals, post-op transsexuals, gender-nonconforming, male or female, etc? Were all those groups equally represented? Etc etc etc.
      Yawn, yes more coffee.

      All the coffee in the world doesn’t make shooting fish in a barrel any more entertaining though.

      • niksebastian Says:

        However, you did not refer to the videos as examples of Autogynophilia, and many readers of your blog unfamiliar with the trans community may be left with the impression that these are true transsexuals. You’ve already singled out youtubes, but you did so of those people who reflect your concept of what “trans” is. You can’t morally show individual fetishists, claim them to be MTFs, and then refuse to show actual individual MTFs.

        I think I added a lot to the discussion – insurance not treating uterine cancer of FTMs, for example, while hormone treatments were previously discussed. And what of the neurological evidence that I linked you to? No comment on that? No comment on me being treated worse as a man than as a woman? If I was ignoring what you said, I wouldn’t have posted the reply I did. I would have said “sorry, you’re wrong.” No – I agreed that internalised misogyny might have led to some women thinking they are FTM. That care should be taken before transition because of this. At the same time, I firmly believe that there are transgender people who are genuine.

        But let me say: if you aren’t willing to even consider the overwhelming evidence that transsexuals aren’t simply following a “trend,” that you could be wrong, and that transsexuals are going through unbelievable pain as they transition, there is no reason for me to accept that your views have any credibility. And as immature as it is of me to say without more evidence – you are wrong.

        I was raised a feminist. I don’t like the idea of women feeling inferior to men any more than you do. When I first explored my gender, I had the same doubts as you. No way this is anything but society’s influence, right? Wrong. I made the decision to transition when I realised that even if I lived in solitary confinement for the rest of my life, and had social roles eliminated, I would rather inhabit a body in which I am comfortable.

        As you’re a woman, I’m guessing you think there is no way a man can understand what it is like to be a woman, how it feels. I think you’re right. I’m an FTM. And there is no way you as a woman can understand how it feels to be me. Maybe I should just stop trying to gain acceptance, since it’s so obvious you’ll always see me as the enemy just for existing.

      • gallusmag Says:

        If you really think the average reader is so incredibly stupid that they think all transsexuals run around in masks and vinyl gloves (and who knows, maybe you are right!) then I will ad a disclaimer to my post saying “Video examples of Autogynophilia”.
        “I think I added a lot to the discussion – insurance not treating uterine cancer of FTMs, for example” I covered that already under insurers refusing coverage for those with pre-existing conditions. Lots of people with uterine and other cancers are denied coverage because the company won’t insure people with pre-existing conditions. Do you care about all of them or just those who are trans? I think it’s terrible that people make profits denying medical care to those with pre-existing conditions. I think the entire for-profit medical insurance industry should be outlawed. Do you? Or do you just think an exception should be made in the case of trans people? Oh wait you already answered that when you said “I fully accept that for-profit insurers can deny coverage of anything they want to. I don’t think it’s fair, but it happens. It’s their own business.”

        “And what of the neurological evidence that I linked you to?” You did not link to any neurological evidence. You linked to a survey of the feelings of transsexuals. Feelings are not neurology.

        “No comment on me being treated worse as a man than as a woman?” If you are genuinely asserting (and it looks like you are) that men are treated worse than women, I can only wonder at your unique perspective not based on any reality whatsoever. If you are asserting that you are treated worse as a female who is gender non-conforming then your previous experience as a femininity-performing female, then I could understand what you are experiencing and affirm your experience as relational to reality as I know it.

        “If I was ignoring what you said, I wouldn’t have posted the reply I did. I would have said “sorry, you’re wrong.” “And as immature as it is of me to say without more evidence – you are wrong.” Well then.

        “I made the decision to transition when I realised that even if I lived in solitary confinement for the rest of my life, and had social roles eliminated, I would rather inhabit a body in which I am comfortable.” We can’t eliminate our gender programming by wishing it so. This reminds me of that birth control commercial that says “WHO SAYS you have to have your period every month? Who says?” and then tells you what pill to buy that offers you the option to fool your body into thinking it’s pregnant every day of every month so you can bypass the irritation of your monthly visitor. Lots of women are uncomfortable with their bodies when they are doubled over with cramps and dropping clots the size of grapes. It doesn’t mean you are a man. If men got periods menstruation would be a national holiday.

        “…it’s so obvious you’ll always see me as the enemy just for existing.” I don’t see you as the enemy. Not at all. I see you as a martyr on the gender altar. I have empathy for you and think you should be respected and protected from male violence like any other female. You should get jobs and housing the same as anyone else. I just don’t see you as male. I don’t hate trans people. I like lots of them. I just disagree that certain traits are intrinsically female or male, and that people can change sex, and that we can all drop our gender caste programming at will.

      • V Says:

        Gallusmag:
        Wow, are you really so mentally weak that you can’t overcome your gender programming? Seriously, it’s pretty damn easy.

        Oh wait, that’s right, you’re cis, so it’s hard for you.
        Hint: when the gender programming doesn’t fit, it doesn’t stick.

      • gallusmag Says:

        V: There is no such thing as a cis woman. If you were female you would know that.

      • V Says:

        Oh, but there is. If you were trans you’d know that😉

      • niksebastian Says:

        For true neurology, here’s a related document that could explain the reverse-phantom limb symptoms of MTFs (related to their penises) and FTMs (related to their breasts). http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:pFVe9ZuyzDMJ:cbc.ucsd.edu/pdf/apotem.pdf+apotemnophilia&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESizOjCe8uGUBU8vqRiQMig1EJP4choeFGnuegfkJlyB92v-WE5y7dHaXllnQaSslQzp3oRSJDHw5oop3SEbhs1c0aaT6IVyYXVVu6cheNNy3phH-n8M0X2_x6MliXWWbjDx874P&sig=AHIEtbTmkvTnjgR7jhfD8uJEm2z24aubpw (sorry for the absurdly long URL)
        It shows that even some seemingly impossible feelings, incomprehensible to outsiders, do have neurological basis. Similarly to what MTFs have been accused of, people with “apotemnophilia” have been thought to have a sexual fetish for the transformation of their bodies – in this case, amputation. The document linked suggests instead that it is a physical abnormality in their brains, causing a detachment from the limbs in question – not sexual at all.

        No, I am not saying that men are treated worse than women. I’m saying that “male privilege” is not so powerful that it makes up for appearing a man who is feminine and generally atypical. I was treated better as a butch woman than as a femme man. And honestly, it’s a sacrifice I’m accepting. I was suicidal for far too long pre-transition, when I had that privilege (yes, privilege) of being a normal masculine woman. I’m not going back.

        My discomfort with having a woman’s body isn’t centered around the discomfort of menstruation. Clearly, many women are uncomfortable with that aspect of being female. Rather, I feel detached from my breasts, frustrated with my hips, and disappointed by the femininity of my face practically every waking moment. Sometimes it eases for a bit and I can feel neutral about it, but I can never, ever look in the mirror and accept that I should have this female body. It’s been so bad that I haven’t been able to fall asleep because I can’t escape the sensation of having breasts. To stop feeling so dysphoric, it’s taken a great deal of restraint to not turn to alcohol to fully detach from reality. You can’t tell me that this is as simple as societal influence. I’ve broken many of society’s rules, willingly or unwillingly. I see the beauty of my body, distantly, as if I’m looking at a photograph. But when it is connected to me it’s unbearable.

        I disagree that certain traits are intrinsically female or male, as well. That’s not what makes people realise they’re trans. It’s much deeper than that. I’d say it’s most likely linked to brain chemistry and mental body maps. What needs to be conducted now is a study similar to the one on apotemnophilia.

      • gallusmag Says:

        Yes neurology is fascinating.
        After many years of study there is no known etiology for transsexuality. Nor for anorexia. Have you ever thought about seeking out some kind of therapeutic support against your body dysphoria? There should be groups for young women to go to and get help with obsessive unrealistic body hatred.

        “I feel detached from my breasts, frustrated with my hips, and disappointed by the femininity of my face practically every waking moment.”
        “It’s been so bad that I haven’t been able to fall asleep because I can’t escape the sensation of having breasts.”
        That sounds like terrible suffering. Agony. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
        If there was a pill you could take tomorrow and it would suddenly make you feel completely comfortable with your body, would you take it?

      • niksebastian Says:

        “Have you ever thought about seeking out some kind of therapeutic support against your body dysphoria?” – therapy trying to cure transsexuality has been at best unhelpful, at worse psychologically harmful. With that neurological basis, it would be as helpful as trying to stop any other neurological condition, such as schizophrenia, solely through therapy. It might ease it, but not fix it. Of course, I’m in therapy, to accept the limits of what I can change about myself. To adjust to a new social role, to cope with discrimination in healthier ways, to lessen the grief dysphoria causes me. And it’s helped in those ways.

        “If there was a pill you could take tomorrow and it would suddenly make you feel completely comfortable with your body, would you take it?” – Yes. Is that surprising to you? I’d still feel some social unease, I’m sure, but if that pill would make me happy with my body, able to be in intimate situations consistently without a dysphoric attack that puts a stop to it, all those things… yes. I could deal with the rest of it then. It would feel in a way like I’m abandoning my identity, but I realise even with hormones and surgery some dysphoria will be lurking. I’d probably ID as genderqueer or something along that, since I would wish to continue supporting trans people who still experience dysphoria, and try to stop discrimination against them.

  14. Bev Jo Says:

    I’m still re-working a final version of my article, “‘Transwomen’ Are Merely Castrated Men” and part 2 of “Defining Lesbians Out of Existence,” which is about “‘Transmen’ Are Still Women.”

    But I have to add that I disagree with so much of what Niksebastien wrote. The majority of “FTMs” I’ve seen (check out Loren Cameron’s “The Body Alchemy”) are not previous Butches, but are Fems. There are a lot of Fems who go through a phase of posturing as pretend Butches, but they aren’t. (Volcano/Della Grace is an example of an “FTM” who previously had had breast enlargement.) Being Butch is something chosen at a very young age, is the opposite of “masculine” since “femininity” is a male invention to subjugate females, and is closer to what all females would be if it wasn’t for patriarchy.

    “FTM” are self-hating, female-hating women who want male privilege at our expense. Many even admit they want “better jobs and more women!” They oppress women and Lesbians.

    All the “MTFs” I’ve talked with did NOT grow up feeling like females. They either didn’t think about “transitioning” until much later in life and have had decades of male and het privilege as husbands and fathers in a nuclear family — or they had a weird sexual fetish about what a female isn’t and identified with that male invention. I have yet to meet one that isn’t farther from femaleness than most het men.

    These men do go into power positions and want to be in the limelight, and throw terrible tantrums when anyone objects. They oppress us and are doing their best to destroy rare women-only space worldwide.

    I don’t want to even waste time referring to the rest.

    • V Says:

      “All the “MTFs” I’ve talked with did NOT grow up feeling like females. They either didn’t think about “transitioning” until much later in life and have had decades of male and het privilege as husbands and fathers in a nuclear family”

      Anecdata, the best kind of data!
      Sorry, my experiences within the trans community have shown the exact opposite; MTFs feel female from as early as age 3 and the majority begin transition in their late teens when they have the resources to do something about it.
      You’ve probably talked to such people and never realised that you were speaking to someone who is trans.
      That’s the ironic catch; the only ones you’re qualified to comment on are the obvious ones – the small number of 50+ dads who look like men in dresses and are therefore readable as trans.
      Guess what? No one at my work knows I’m trans. I change clothes in public changing rooms with cis women, I pee in the stall next to you in the bathroom and you have no idea.
      You can’t detect me. I could be your manager, your hairdresser, your best friend, the person who fixed your computer two weeks ago the police officer who gave you a speeding fine.
      We walk among you and you are clueless.
      Now, enjoy your paranoia🙂

      • gallusmag Says:

        “Anecdata, the best kind of data! Sorry, my experiences within the trans community have shown the exact opposite;”

        And this is not anecdata how exactly? lol.

        “we walk among you” ha you are witty. I love that movie.

      • Noanodyne Says:

        Here’s one that simply has to be on the Trans Bingo card:

        I/we/they felt “female from as early as age” x

        It’s a Trans Trope and it’s complete and utter bullshit.

      • V Says:

        Oh, so their anecdata is sacrosanct and beyond reproach, but mine isn’t. I see how this blog works now🙂
        We do walk amongst you. No doubt you’ve been obliviously naked around a trans woman or shared the same bathroom with one.
        And probably more than once.

        Yet here is this trope (a REAL trope) surfacing again that all trans women are “old dudes with wives and kids who are CEO of Conglomo” and are just transitioning to play with their fancy new vagina.

        This blog reads like a fundamentalist Christian blog. Just replace ‘transgender’ with ‘lesbian’ and you can hash out all the same arguments that you’ve used. Trope No. 1 reads like “God works in mysterious ways” – it’s you’re catch all when challenged for being factually inaccurate.
        Remember when being homosexual was deconstructed in exactly the same way you’re deconstructing transgender people?
        I guess not.

      • Noanodyne Says:

        V, darlin’, you’re living in a delusional fantasy world and stealing the truth that lesbians have always lived to try to puff yourself up. Women born women see you from a block away. We don’t give you shit because we feel sorry for you, not because you’ve fooled us. Only men are that stupid. And that’s what makes them so angry when they find out they’ve been fooled. Your male privilege is what is telling you that you’re clever and getting away with your deception. What you really are is pathetic.

      • gallusmag Says:

        That’s a good one Noan- I’ll have to throw some neurology stuff into it too. Let’s not forget the limbic nucleus!😉

      • V Says:

        Noanodyne:
        You know, cuz you’re trans, amirite?
        Essentially you’re saying “All trans people who claim their gender identity from an early age are liars”.
        Yet I have to wonder, how on earth are you going to provide evidence for this?
        *Chews nails in anticipation*
        Goddamit, you made me ruin my manicure!
        *Flounce*

      • gallusmag Says:

        “No doubt you’ve been obliviously naked around a trans woman or shared the same bathroom with one.
        And probably more than once.”
        Oh Nooooeeezzzzzz! Naked?! Shared bathroom?!? Noooeeezzzz!
        Hell I’ve probably ground my junk all over a tranny or two- in fact I know I have! So what?
        LOL fancy new vagina. You are funny. You are welcome on my blog anytime.

      • V Says:

        Oh? No outrage over the sanctity of women’s spaces being invaded by the tranny footsoldiers of the Patriarchy?
        Aww.
        Just when I thought this place was more hilarious than The Onion😦

      • V Says:

        Noanodyne said:
        Women born women see you from a block away.

        Well, after 6 months I haven’t been kicked out of the ‘Women born women’ book club meeting that I attend every month, so clearly my sneaky thievery of the truth from the clueless lebians has been all too successful😦
        Sorry, you lose!😀

      • gallusmag Says:

        One point for the males! Women are too polite to kick the wannabe out of the book club. Christ V you probably show up with notes. Silly women! Man wins!

      • V Says:

        You sound more like a fundy Christian with each post. However, scholars 50 years from now will probably be appalled and horrified by the content in this blog and draw comparisons between the oppression of homosexuals and the oppression of trans people.
        Because all your arguments are the same ones that were used against gays and lesbians in the past.

    • gallusmag Says:

      Bev we should write more about females that grow up refusing to perform femininity and trying to reject gender programming as best we can. There is a dearth of writing on the topic. I agree with what you said about the most recent female trans going from feminine to “male”.

      • Noanodyne Says:

        Glad you mentioned that, gallusmag, because I think that’s what drives me on this issue. After we spit in the eye of the patriarchy and took no end of shit in our personal, professional, and social lives for doing so, we’re bullied by preening queens who claim they know exactly what it’s like to be a woman and should be allowed into our inner circles. And on the other side by deeply confused women who tell us that we really just wanted to be men.

      • gallusmag Says:

        So true Noan and they’re always so thrilled to be in our spaces, titillated at the idea, and so sure we would get the vapors if we knew. Ew, it really is like the autogynephilia shown in those videos. Get over yourselves guys! You ‘aint no special unicorn! You reek of maleness, and we’re smellin’ you a mile away.
        We should support people who can help these guys, like Jenny Roberts. http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/buildingbridges.html

  15. Noanodyne Says:

    gallusmag: “I don’t hate trans people. I like lots of them. I just disagree that certain traits are intrinsically female or male, and that people can change sex, and that we can all drop our gender caste programming at will.”

    Beautifully said.

  16. Bev Jo Says:

    I don’t have a “hairdresser” or manager, and I would certainly know if my best friend were a castrated man or a female impersonator. She wouldn’t be wasting her time like this either. Of course you’re recognizable, no matter how much money you’ve paid to male plastic surgeons. We are heart, soul,and mind Lesbians, and you are just completely different from a female.

    Yes, GallusMag. Many of us, who I call Butches, grew up completely rejecting male-defined femininity, but that didn’t mean I wanted to be a boy. Boys are those nasty immature men, who taunt and bully and try to rape girls and who torture and kill animals.

    We have a whole chapter of 55 pages in our book about this.

    These men just can’t help revealing themselves — how they revel in the idea that they’ve been in “women only” space, or, more pornographically thrilling — Lesbian space! — and they’ve seen us naked.

    Well you haven’t seen me naked.

    • gallusmag Says:

      Oh no not Nakkked! Oh get me my fainting couch. Christ my neighbors see me naked most every night. What a delectable thrill that must be watching me forage in my fridge. WTF. These male fetishists are so out of touch with female life.

    • V Says:

      Sorry Jo, I bypassed male puberty so I’m totally, 100% undetectable. Thanks to hormones, my body and face feminised in exactly the same way as any cis woman’s would. The only surgery that was required was for my genitalia.
      However, I’m curious, you keep firing off the word ‘lesbians’ as the categorically authentic female persons. Are straight women male now? if so, you should probably tell them. They may be shocked by this revelation.

      And no, without karyotyping your best friend, you have no idea whether she is X, XX, XY, XXY, XXYY, AIS, PAIS or any other genetic or intersex anomalies. So be careful about claiming what your best friend is or isn’t, since you’ve actually got no idea🙂

  17. Bev Jo Says:

    Great responses, Nanodyne and GallusMag.

    Isn’t it telling how they revel in deception, and, when it’s based on wanting access against our will,
    is a form of rape.

    It’s also revealing how they are so persuasive that not one woman I know would even remotely consider being intimate with one of these men. They certainly haven’t charmed us, have they?

    Yes, pathetic, but also deeply repulsive.

    • V Says:

      I only ‘revel in deception’ because it irks you so; you claim that you can categorically always tell who is trans cuz they’re all old men in dresses with kids and a wife, but quietly freak out at the suggestion that there are invisible, passable trans women out there who share your spaces.
      I revel in pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments. It’s…fun😀
      I’m going to the toilet now; a female public toilet. THERE! I just raped you! Did you feel it?

      That aside, I regret to inform you that I use female bathrooms to…
      *Drumroll*
      Pee, poop and to dispose of sanitary pads. And sometimes masturbate to the sound of other women peeing. I joke. Everything but the last part😉

  18. Noanodyne Says:

    You’re close to getting a bingo, V.

    “You don’t know anyone who’s trans, so you can’t know… blah, blah, blah”

    In reality, most of us have friends, acquaintances, and/or co-workers who are MtF and FtM trans. You’re about 20 years behind the times. And sadly, hardly entertaining, with a shtick that was old in 1988. Most of the flavors of genderbending are as old as the hills.

    There’s living an authentic life and then there’s stealing from (co-opting) other people’s experiences and claiming them for yourself.

  19. Noanodyne Says:

    gallusmag: “We should support people who can help these guys, like Jenny Roberts.”

    Wow, that article is a marvel. It’s exactly the kind of thing that could get reasonable people finding common ground. It’s the common-sense understanding that has happened with the few MtF people that I’ve had good conversations with.

  20. Bev Jo Says:

    It’s not about age, men are obviously men, lacking something basic in terms of real heart and soul. So these female impersonators would not fool me.

    But they keep proving how male they are by joking about raping us, and masturbating while in women’s bathrooms.

    Transphobia doesn’t exist. We’re not afraid, these men OPPRESS us.

    But they will never have what they want. A real Lesbian would never be with them.

    • V Says:

      A real Lesbian would never be with them.

      Heh. The ‘Not a true Scotsman’ fallacy at it’s finest!
      It’s ok though. I’m not into women. I like the cock. Specifically, my fiancé’s cock.
      Dang. I must be one of them ‘Homosexual Transsexuals’ that the blogger mentioned. I’d like to hear more about them. Could you please be a good oppressor and define me some more?

  21. Noanodyne Says:

    Oh, and gallusmag, don’t forget the “radical feminism is just like fundamentalism” trope. They’ve been using that one since the pomo pederasts were alive and sliming the hallowed halls of academia.

  22. Bev Jo Says:

    Well, except for adding the list of recent horror stories I’ve been collecting about castrated men and female impersonators, and including some of their more revealing rantings, I’ve finally finished Part One of my article and new chapter two for our book: Defining Lesbians Out of Existence — the Pretenders — Part One, “‘Transwomen’ Are Merely Castrated Men.”

    After friends proofread, it will be posted and sent out.

    • gallusmag Says:

      I look forward to reading it. I hope a huge portion of your book is devoted to male-oriented women playing lesbians in porn. Holy Christ you can’t google anything lesbian without getting goddamn bimbos with their fingernail diddling fake lesbian porn.

    • V Says:

      Hey cool, maybe you could help me with my book “Lesbians: Women who are just jealous of the penis”?
      I’m going to go into depth as to how lesbianism doesn’t actually exist, because human beings are inherently designed to have penis-in-vagina sex and have reproductive systems that only work with opposite sex gametes.

      I’ve almost finished the first chapter which shows that 70% of lesbians were sexually abused as children and that’s why they (delusionally) think they like women. The other 30% are just doing it cuz it’s ‘cool’ and it’s just like rebelliously getting a tattoo or a piercing.

      I mean, let’s face it, why should I have to accept your delusion that you like women and give you the same rights as a straight woman in a straight relationship? It’s all just a fantasy. Biology shows that you’re wrong.

      ——-

      Gosh, that sounded a little bigoted, didn’t it?😉

      • gallusmag Says:

        Lesbians and feminists have long examined lesbianism critically. The whole “lesbian trend” while in college for example, and the “lesbian trend” of straight girls making out to entertain men. “Lesbian Chic”, “Lesbian” in porn. Straight women who try to adopt lesbianism because they hate men or don’t get along with them. Bisexuals who claim lesbianism. “Lesbian” filmmakers who make films about lesbians who fuck men in the second reel. It’s not bigoted to have a feminist critical eye. It has nothing to do with civil rights. No one here is arguing against the rights of trans people to do what they want in their lives, get hired at jobs, be safe from male violence. But trans males don’t have a “right” to be considered female. And trans females have no “right” to be considered male. Just like my neighbor has no right to be considered tasteful in his lawn decorations, even though he’d very much like to be.
        It’s not bigoted to point out that lesbian sex is not reproductive. Analysis, examination and critique is not a HATE CRIME. It’s not hateful or bigoted for women to discuss men who want to be women and women who want to be men.

      • V Says:

        Well, that then begs the question:
        If you can’t tell that a trans man was born female or that a trans woman was born male, how are you going to arbitrate how you treat them in accordance with your standards?
        You treat all female appearing people as female, don’t you?
        And all male appearing people as male, amirite?
        So by default, you’re unwilling acknowledging passing trans men and women as male and female respectively, whether you like it or not.

        So really, what’s the point in making a fuss about whether or not they should be considered members of their preferred gender?

      • gallusmag Says:

        It’s true Vexing- if you can pass yourself off as a doctor I might even let you remove my gallbladder.
        Vexing, why do you ask these questions? Your questions have all been answered. Do you have some sort of memory loss? Aren’t you the same Vexing who famously said in a feministing thread that some day you were going to bash in the head of someone who won’t pretend you are female and happily go to jail for it? Aren’t you the same Vexing who had an ENTIRE THREAD dedicated to answering all your questions where MANY WOMEN gave you their TIME and ENERGY answering ALL your questions, OVER and OVER and OVER??????
        http://fabmatters.wordpress.com/2010/04/25/vexing-ask-and-ye-shall-receive/

        Why don’t you go and re-read it. If you have any questions or anything to share which has NOT already been covered here OR there, I would love to hear it. Any comments repeating anything that has already been answered for you will be tossed in the trash.
        Good DAY to you sir.

  23. Bev Jo Says:

    We cover it in terms of one chapter about male-identified, het-identified women selling out all women on behalf of males, and then a chapter on Lesbians betraying other Lesbians also on behalf of males. But I’m editing it, so I could mention that specifically.

  24. FCM Says:

    this is only my second comment here and i will preface it with an apology/admission that i have not read most of the discussion on this thread, because i no longer have a tolerance for mansplaining and/or mainstream banality. i dont even publish comments like these on my own blog because i cant stand reading them, and they give me heartburn. obvs i am talking about SOME OF the readers comments and not the blog hosts or radfems here, who are fighting the good fight, as always. so anyway, i am sorry if this has already been covered.

    BUT. regarding the neurology part and the alleged reverse-phantom limb phenomenon. RATIONALIZE MUCH? god. EVEN IF this were the true source of transpeoples suffering, the CURE for neurological disorders is NOT SURGERY. the cure for neurological disorders is to treat the neurological symptoms, my understanding is that its usually with drugs like neurontin or something else for nerve pain. one reason is that (surprise!) surgery often has complications like…nerve injury and nerve pain. and when you amputate, a side-effect is often…REAL phantom-limb symptoms! DUH. so if you cut off a penis (or breasts) to CURE someone of reverse-phantom-dick, and you replace it with non-reverse-phantom-dick, the net-gain is exactly ZERO. or, it would be, UNLESS there are other gains from doing it BESIDES getting rid of the alleged neurological symptoms. which of course there ARE. which means that the neurological claims are just an EXCUSE.

    and particularly for MTFs who claim to experience these neurological symptoms (reverse phantom-dick), what exactly would be the point, if this were actually the case, of not only cutting off the penis but then also creating a fake fuckhole in its place? why not just cut it off, and leave it with nothing? are they saying, too, that they have reverse-phantom-dick and that they ALSO suffer from non-reverse-phantom-vagina? meaning, they FEEL like they have a vagina, when they really dont? okay…fine. but a vagina feels nothing like a hole, or a sheath for a dick that needs constant penetration to survive. a vagina feels like a solid structure, because it is one. implanting a fake fuckhole therefore shouldnt quell this particular complaint…the “feeling” that you should have a vagina (NOT A HOLE) but you dont. if anything, it would solve only your MISOGYNIST MENTAL DELUSION that a fake fuckhole is a vag, and you want one.

    the rationalizations. they burn.

    • gallusmag Says:

      It is SUCH crap isn’t it. MTFs report phantom penile erections when they get their dick chopped. Must be that double-reverse phantom fuckhole syndrome,lol.
      Colonizing people with actual illness and disease is just another MANifestation of those who choose to deliberately become disabled, voluntarily attaching themselves to the male medical machine as patients for the rest of their lives.

  25. FCM Says:

    also, in the articles there seems to be a LOT of stock put in self-reporting, which of course there always is in case of trans-anything. because none of this is really observable objectively, its all about FEEEELINGS, and stuff, and things. i FEEEL the pinprick less intensely in my left leg below the knee, than i do in my right thigh. or…i FEEEEL like i have a boner, even though i no longer have a dick? WTF? okay, even if this were true (he isnt lying about his FEEELINGS) and even if you hooked a castrated male up to a brain-scan and saw his boner-center or whatever lighting up like an xmas tree…and assuming of course that there even is a “boner-center” within the brain…what exactly does that prove? that imagining yourself with a boner lights up the boner-center just like having an actual boner does? i would LOVE to see what lights up in the brain of a man who FEELS like he has a vagina, but he really still just has his penis. the lying-his-ass-off center or the objectifying female-parts center, would be my guess.

  26. FCM Says:

    and it should go without saying of course that if they could JUST MANAGE to find a way to be/do trans without being so fucking offensive, threatening and dangerous to FAABs, that 99% of us really wouldnt care. its the MISOGYNY, the utter, utter misogyny of it all that is getting radical feminists to speak up about it (unlike the fucking fun-fems, we dont just do this for FUN, or book deals or whatever, we RESPOND when its NECESSARY to respond). in the end, if they do have triple-sow-cow-reverse backflip phantom asshole or whatever, FINE! i have NO OBJECTION WHATSOEVER to physically-variant humans in general. thats not the issue, at all. but they are pretending it is. why? this is not a rhetorical question.

    • gallusmag Says:

      Trans politics says: Certain traits, thoughts, feelings and characteristics are inherent to biologic sex.
      How could that NOT be sexist?
      If they were referring to menstruation, pregnancy, childbirth, or the sensation of having sweaty itchy balls, that would be one thing. But what they are saying is that there are innate biologic behaviors and characteristics caused by one’s reproductive sex- yet UNRELATED to sex in the special snowflake transgender syndrome. Therefore it is SEX that is fluid, not traits, thoughts, feelings and characteristics.
      Under WHAT circumstance would such assertions NOT be based on sexism? That is the very DEFINITION of sexism.
      Men SHOULD totally wear dresses and gowns and get-their-hair-did and throw in some eyeliner while they’re at it. They should perform femininity in solidarity with the humans that are FORCED to do so, and to fuck with sexism. And some (very few) men do. But most men that perform femininity do so in ORDER to claim that female humans are innately XYZ. And by embodying XYZ themselves, as men, they must therefore, somehow, magically, TRANSUBSTANTIATIONALLY, be not reproductively male. And they’ll pay for surgical body-mod and recreational hormones to try to make that seem true.

      • Noanodyne Says:

        gallusmag: “Trans politics says: Certain traits, thoughts, feelings and characteristics are inherent to biologic sex.[…] That is the very DEFINITION of sexism.”

        Exactly.

  27. Bev Jo Says:

    Except that I think it’s true, but not in the way they want. Males, including of many other species, are violent and dangerous — raping when they can, murdering who they want, including babies. They seem to lack many things that goes way beyond socialization. It’s heart, mind, spirit, soul. Male scientists admit it, but too many feminist apologize for and protect males. I heard a scientist recently describe how women’s brains responded with empathy when someone was being hurt, but men’s brains showed they enjoyed seeing the pain.

    And that is why men can never be or become us — no matter how much surgery they have, and no matter how they try to imitate patriarchal false femininity. They are missing something very serious in their minds and hearts, or lack of. And that’s why we can always recognize them, even just from a posting.


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