Response to Kai Weston Coordinator of upcoming RCP “Transgender: Time to Change” Protest

April 9, 2011

I received a comment on my “Transgender: Time To Change” post about the upcoming Lesbian and Gay psychiatry conference from Kai Weston, NUS Trans Representative and organizer of a planned protest against the conference.

It was such a long and thoughtful comment that I thought I would respond to it in a new post. Kai un-ironically used the nick “Jacktivist” for her comment, a term used by feminists to refer to those who use silencing techniques in attempt to quell feminist critique.

The following is her comment and my response.

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Kai Weston

Submitted on 2011/04/07 at 4:33 pm

wow, I wish I could say that I was shocked by this post, but sadly I’m not. The venom with which this is written seems almost pathological (maybe I should plan a psudeo-scientific conference?) The issue which the trans community is trying to address through this protest isn’t about feminism, or Julie Bindel, but about a particular strand within the psychitric community which is pedalling these theories, and refusing to share an equal platform with academics which hold opposing views. Ok, yes, Julie Bindel does have something to do with it. She seems oddly misplaced amongst the other speakers on the bill, who whilst holding views with which I disagree, at least have an academic background on which to stand. How is an opinon columist whose only grounding in the subject appears to be writing articles based in charicature and stereotyping qualified to speak on this platform? This isn’t some just abstracted topic, but one which has a very real impact on the way people live their day to day lives.

What I find most disturbing is the fact that what seems to be advocated by this conference is an approach which is analogous to the “talking therapies” which used to be (and sometimes still are) used to try and “cure” gay people. No, it is not homophobic to be trans, and no, it isn’t anti-feminist. Mainstream feminism is in itself divided over the topic of trans lives, and many of the people planning on protesting this conference are doing so due to their feminist principles. Please, before you go speaking about the lives of others, do your research throughly. Don’t just look into medical discourses, but look at the cross-cultural and trans-historical evidence for the existance of people who lived lives in gender roles which were chained to their emobodiment. Finally, these speakers are about as scientific as the early sexologists and psychatrists were; try reading “psychopathia transexualis” and look at the homophobic and transphobic nauture of the argument it lays out. You’re making the very same asusmptions here; “these people are actually gay, and their gender identity is a delusion” the only difference between you, and these earlier writers is that you don’t advocate the use of “gay cures”, but you’re still trying to fulfil the early psychatrist’s aims of “curing” trans people of their gender identities. Unfortunately for you, there is much evidenc for the psychological harm that this does, rather than there being evidence to the contrary. One such case study (Rosario: 1992), invovled a gay transman who was being held in a psychatirc ward, but not being allowed to express his gender idenity who also had a series of comorbid mental health conditions. In the case study, they found that allowing him to express his gender identity, rather than worsening his mental health, alleivated many of his symptoms. What was the reason why he wasn’t allowed to express his gender idenity? He said he was attracted to men, and this was in spite of the DSM regulations being updated in 1986 to acknowlegde that gender identity and sexuality were in fact seperate, thus breaking the damaging tradition of assuming that all trans people were simply gay. Please, please do not lead us back down that path, by placing the two under the same category and then pathologising trans people, you take us back towards and understanding of gender and sexuality which pathologised gay people. It is the speakers at this conference which are regressive and obstructing progress, not the protesters. Before you ask, no I do not think gender reassignment is the answer for all trans people, but nor do I think that it is an invalid response to gender identity issues. Rather, I think that the treatment indviduals receive should be taylored to their needs, many people live as trans without hormones or surgery and are happy to do so, but this does not neccersarily translate to the correct course of treatment for all.

I see my positon on this as antihomophobic, antitransphobic, and pro-feminist. Ideally, we should be questioning the way in which society treats gender rather than pathologising indviduals whose genders do not fit into societal models. In this sense, my vision for the world would be one in which people are free of societal constraints on gender expression, regardless of if they make use of hormones and surgery or not.

[sic]

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Here are some of the ways in which your protest is women-hating, homophobic, and transphobic.

Women have a right to critique the apparatus of their subjugation. Not only a right, but a duty. Blacks have a right to critique the social constructs of race. Homosexuals have a right to critique sexuality and heteronormacy. Only the most venomous, pathological racist homophobic hater-of-women would deny the truth of this. That would be YOU.

Your assertion that a respected feminist who widely publishes and presents on the nature of gender is not “qualified” to critique the apparatus of female subjugation at a psychiatry conference dealing with gender is offensive at best. Your misogynist assertion WILL BE PROTESTED.

And don’t try to pretend that your views represent all gendered people or even all of those who want access to medical/surgical sexed body modifications. You only represent a particular strain of genderism, one that is trying to dominate and silence diversity and the voices of women. History will look back very poorly on your strain of gender supremacy. Your future grandchildren will look back on your actions much the way we look back now on those who protested desegregation. Future transgenders will look back and shake their heads at the twisted way their foremothers took a colossal side-step into socially conservative gender fundamentalism.

You try to equate psychiatric practice which supports gender transgression with homosexual aversion therapy designed to support hetero-supremacism. Transgression and Conformity are opposites so your analogy makes no sense. A better equation would be a medical treatment that “cured” homosexuality vs. talk-therapy that supported homosexual transgression despite hetero-supremacist cultural norms. YOU want the psychiatric establishment to treat people who transgress sexuality and sex stereotypes with drugging and surgery, so they can be “cured” of their transgression and slotted nicely back into heterocentric sexist roles. Further, you want to chemically alter children who rebel against hateful oppressive (and increasingly antiquated) cultural norms before they are old enough to apply informed consent.

There was a time when a six year-old boy found wearing mom’s clothes would be told “That is wrong. You must not do that”. Feminists want the kid to do and wear whatever he wants. What YOU want to tell him is “You have a birth defect. There is a thing called an essential male and female essence (unsupported by science) and you must be a defect of nature born in the wrong body. Doctors can fix you with drugs and surgery, removing your natural healthy organs and body’s natural endocrine balance and feedback and replacing it with a lifetime of synthetic hormones which will tie you to doctors and lab tests and pharmacies for the rest of your life. And we’re going to start that process right now because you need to make this decision soon, and you can never change your mind about it later.” That’s what you want. You ARE the aversion therapy advocate.

Ninety-eight percent of children who insist they are transgender, the kids whose feelings and behaviors are so pronounced that they are actually referred for professional treatment as children, 98% of those kids change their mind in adulthood. The majority turn out to be homosexual. Those gay kids are the ones YOU want to rob of a normal healthy physical puberty and maturity. YOU are the homosexual aversion therapy advocate.

Which makes your false equivalency all the more offensive homophobic and hateful. Not only that, you PROTEST the RIGHT of HOMOSEXUALS to EVEN DISCUSS IT.

YOU will be protested.

You are actually going to PICKET a woman for criticizing the construct of sex-based female-hating cultural myths.

You are also going to PROTEST any funding or support for GID clients who don’t agree with you. And those who desire talk-therapy support. And those who decide against chemical and surgical “correction” and want help coping with their physical dysphoria. And help for those who are medically unfit for the drugs and surgery you demand should be the ONLY treatment OPTION for trans clients.

You throw your trans brothers and sisters under the bus, and gender non-conforming children, along with women and homosexuals. That’s what you’re protesting for.

“I see my positon on this as antihomophobic, antitransphobic, and pro-feminist. Ideally, we should be questioning the way in which society treats gender rather than pathologising indviduals whose genders do not fit into societal models. In this sense, my vision for the world would be one in which people are free of societal constraints on gender expression, regardless of if they make use of hormones and surgery or not.”

Then what the hell are you protesting?

Oh that’s right. Women, Gays, Lesbians and gender-nonconforming people.

Pornified harassment twitter account set up yesterday by Transgender protesters of the Lesbian and Gay RCP meeting targeting feminist presenter Julie Bindel

41 Responses to “Response to Kai Weston Coordinator of upcoming RCP “Transgender: Time to Change” Protest”

  1. GallusMag Says:

    Funny Kai mentioned the DSM diagnosis of GID “Gender Identity Disorder”. It was introduced concurrent with the removal of homosexuality as a DSM diagnosis.
    From Wiki: “Some people feel that the deletion of homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM-III and the ensuing creation of the GID diagnosis was merely sleight of hand by psychiatrists, who changed the focus of the diagnosis from the deviant desire (of the same sex) to the subversive identity (or the belief/desire for membership of the opposite sex/gender). People who believe this tend to point out that the same idea is found in both diagnoses, that the patient is not a “normal” male or female.”

  2. Cizzir Says:

    Wow I really hope you are successful with your protest against this idiot. Good luck! What sick individual would tell a boy he has a birth defect just because he wants to wear a dress? It’s just clothing!

    Ciz from europe

  3. FAB Libber Says:

    Brilliant response GM. You should have put up Weston’s comment last night, when I had a lot of trouble getting to sleep. Blah blah blah tranz is wonderful and blah blah blah the radfems and medical establishment are oppressing us. Blah blah blah.

    The venom with which this is written seems almost pathological

    Yet another reversal. The most pathological hatred I see is coming from trans jacktivists, particularly directed at Julie Bindel. And using pornified (sexual) references to do it too. If that does not spell out their misogyny, I don’t know what does.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Thanks FAB ! I know the whole “accusing a woman that disagrees with you of being venomous and pathological” was ill, especially coming from a female. From men you expect it. But the F2T didn’t call me “hysterical” so I gave her points for that, lol.
      And yes, this is one of the shits behind the hate campaign against Bindel, and I suppose any other feminist or lesbian that speaks up.

      • FAB Libber Says:

        What gets to me about all these tranzjacktivists is the constant putting down of feminists, particularly radfems, that actually question this gender malarky – AND they further claim that they are really feminists (or not anti-feminists).

        This is exactly mirrored in their campaign of wanting to be recognised as ‘teh mostest oppressedest women in the world’, but also being ‘identical’ to FABs. Now which is it snowflake – identical or not identical??? The million dollar question.

        This is their fucking platform on everything actually. Claiming both sides of something simultaneously. Weston prattles firstly that “this protest isn’t about feminism, or Julie Bindel” then shortly after completely contradicts that with “Ok, yes, Julie Bindel does have something to do with it.”.

        Tranzjacktivists are truly UNSANE. Pathological in fact.

  4. yttik Says:

    Rather then “venomous and pathological” the argument is actually compassionate and sane. Feminists don’t advocate FGM for women, or foot binding, or breast implants, or any other surgical atrocity done in the name of gender conformity. It’s actually “venomous and pathological” that a human being’s health and safety would be carelessly tossed aside in favor of some bizarre cultural dictate designed to reinforce rigid gender boundaries.

    “Ideally, we should be questioning the way in which society treats gender rather than pathologising indviduals whose genders do not fit into societal models.”

    Yes, yes we should be. But the ultimate “pathologising” of individuals occurs when professionals and society tell people over and over again that something is so wrong with them that they can only be fixed by surgery and a complete “identity” transformation.

  5. Noanodyne Says:

    Great takedown, Mag

  6. J McK Says:

    Isn’t Kai a boy’s name?

    I don’t think anybody is protesting in favour of subjugating people by telling them “you have a disorder”. You make it sound as though this is imposed. The fact is nobody ever got referred to a gender specialist in this country who didn’t ask to be. I don’t believe anybody would be protesting against the option of talking therapies either.

    I’ll be there in support of the protest and what we hope to secure is that talking therapies as a treatment are not mandated as a unilateral replacement for hormones and surgery. There should be a choice. I’m sure it was a feminist who said “biology is not destiny”.

    [ Joanne McKillop is Trans Officer of the Queer Youth Network and past organizer of the Stonewall Awards protest against Julie Bindel. -Mag ]

    • FAB Libber Says:

      The fact is nobody ever got referred to a gender specialist in this country who didn’t ask to be.

      What utter bullshit. There is a trend now to diagnose children with GID and start them off on hormones at puberty. HARM HARM HARM and HARM.

      You gender-believers have a real sadistic streak to support the chemical butchering of children. It’s child abuse, pure and simple.

      Stopping pushing your HARMFUL agenda onto children and people who don’t want to fit into pink and blue boxes. The radfem agenda is ANTI-HARM.

      Oh, and the mish-mash of gender queer still requires a belief in pink and blue gender boxes, even if it is mixy matchy dress-ups.

      Grow the fuck up, the lot of you.
      And the Qs and Ts can get the fuck out of the alphabet.

      • GallusMag Says:

        And they want to USE lesbians and gays to do it ! They glom onto every lesbian and gay group and co-opt our political capital to support their homophobic agenda. They demand Lesbian and Gay support, and then they PROTEST our fucking conferences, PICKET our feminist speakers, and BAN our lesbian filmmakers. They go on and on about how much we have in common WHEN IT SUITS THEM but when lesbians and gays want to discuss gender we’re NOT ALLOWED. And they will silence us by any disgusting means- whether that’s posting pics of people’s kids with filthy captions online or setting up fake twitters with pornography on it to harass feminists. We have GOT to get the word out to every gay and lesbian that the trans agenda is woman-hating and homophobic at it’s core.

      • GallusMag Says:

        And the total fucking BULLSHIT of a Stonewall Awards protest coordinator against Julie Bindel coming here. They’re like fucking STALKING her and any other LESBIAN or FEMINIST that wants to address gender. SICK LYING WOMEN-HATING FUCKS !!!!!!

      • GallusMag Says:

        McKillop has written to inform that he is no longer trans youth officer. Gee thanks.

      • kurukurushoujo Says:

        Oh, and the mish-mash of gender queer still requires a belief in pink and blue gender boxes, even if it is mixy matchy dress-ups.

        Oh, absolutely. I actually once read about a study done by queer theorists or someone of the like in which children where punished (!) for not displaying appropriately masculine or feminine behaviour. Aas far as I remember, they wanted to measure other children’s reaction to stereotypically gendered behaviour, however, the children obviously didn’t follow the researchers’ ideas. And all this was deemed appropriate and ethically normal, no less in a supposedly experimental design, with no regard whatsoever to the fact that although despite the researchers’ beliefs in “femininities” and “masculinities” they clearly thought that their version of masculinity/femininity was the right one.

        The author who reported this opined that it would have been more helpful to have the children enact the behaviour of a girl or boy they knew or liked. Yeah, that would have been the sensible thing to do but never mind. *rolls eyes*

      • FAB Libber Says:

        And the total fucking BULLSHIT of a Stonewall Awards protest coordinator against Julie Bindel coming here. They’re like fucking STALKING her and any other LESBIAN or FEMINIST that wants to address gender.

        Absolutely. On the one hand tranz are trying to claim that they are not anti-gay/lesbian, yet have no fucking problem stalking and harrassing a LESBIAN feminist, Julie Bindel. How is that not anti-lesbian, to protest and use misogyny against a lesbian???

        And they want to USE lesbians and gays to do it ! They glom onto every lesbian and gay group and co-opt our political capital to support their homophobic agenda. They demand Lesbian and Gay support, and then they PROTEST our fucking conferences, PICKET our feminist speakers, and BAN our lesbian filmmakers.

        I know, it takes the fucking biscuit.

        It is about time that the alphabet got trimmed down to remove the homophobes. Qs and Ts, yeah we are looking directly at you, you and your fucking misogyny and anti-lesbian agendas.

      • Loup-loup garou Says:

        *Quotes FAB Libber’s entire post for truth.*

    • FAB Libber Says:

      Isn’t Kai a boy’s name?

      And J McK, you can grow the fuck up whilst you are at it.
      “boys’ names” “girls’ names”
      How fucking pedomorphic of you.

      https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/pedomorphisis-and-the-abortive-language-of-transgenderism/

  7. radfemcrafts Says:

    Fantastic response. That pornified Bindel twitter account is practically codified into the Trans Rules of Conduct. Because we hate women our instinct is always to use misogynist means to gain our misogynist ends. Doesn’t get much more straightforward than that.

  8. GallusMag Says:

    Look at this article just out today:
    Excerpt:
    “CHILDREN as young as 12 are to be allowed drugs to prepare them for changing sex.
    The controversial treatment halts puberty, stunting sex organs and preventing the growth of facial hair and sperm in boys, and breasts in girls.
    The injections, previously available only to over-15s with gender identity disorder, are being made available to younger people under an NHS study after pressure from families and doctors.
    Doctors admit most children with the problem do not go on to have a sex change, often turning out to be gay.”

    Most children with “THE PROBLEM” turn out to be GAY. This is what the trans folks who are protesting the lesbian and gay conference are pushing. And they want to SILENCE women and lesbians and gays from EVEN DISCUSSING IT.

    • GallusMag Says:

      There are no long term studies on the effects of chemically castrating pre-teens. These gay children ARE the guinea pigs for the trans agenda.

    • FAB Libber Says:

      Yep. McKillop and his ilk LIE LIE LIE about this stuff, his third sentence:
      The fact is nobody ever got referred to a gender specialist in this country who didn’t ask to be.

      Teens and pre-teens are below the legal age of adulthood, and this shit should not be forced onto children who don’t have the maturity to make their own decisions. Legally, this is not their own consent.

      The other LIE that the tranz community do is about them being oppressed and unrecognised – yet, laws and medical proceedures have been brought in to accomodate tranz with frightening speed – faster than any other group has ever gotten its rights.

      And now it has already become acceptable to push this gender shit onto children, and mutilate them for the rest of their lives. It is insanity. And child abuse.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Yes trans people have won the “right” to chemically sterilize gay children. And now they’re fighting for the “right” to prevent gay and lesbians from discussing it. It is the most hateful abusive genocidal agenda against gay and lesbian children. Even the right wing never came up with this one. But transgenderism is even more conservative and anti-gay than the right.

      • yttik Says:

        “But transgenderism is even more conservative and anti-gay than the right.”

        It certainly is in some Muslim theocracies, places like Iran, where they perform the second most trans surgeries in the world, yes, specifically to cure homosexuality.

        And again, the church used to castrate young boys so they could sing in the choir, not a barbaric practice from ancient times, but actually something that the Vatican didn’t even get around to discouraging until 1903.

        Surgical and hormonal enforcement of rigid gender roles isn’t liberal or tolerant at all and it is completely bizarre that they have become the new advocates for it. They are simply adopting and advocating the barbaric practices from thousands of years of religious theocracies and calling it “progress.”

      • FAB Libber Says:

        It’s all about as ‘progressive’ as I am a bloke.
        Which would be – not at all…

        I am a born female, really fucking pissed off at all this ‘gender role’ fucking bullshit. I am not trans-anything. I spit on gender roles.

  9. QueerMom Says:

    Wow! I googled “transgender changed mind” and found this. I’m amazed and kind of nauseated by the vitriol.

    I’m a lesbian, rad-fem of sorts but not academic — and I have a child who is biologically male, identifies as “trans” though where exactly on the spectrum we are talking has been somewhat variable, and is likely to start on puberty blockers soon. Both the child and her other mom are pushing, and I’m likely to consent.

    It’s not adult TG’s who are pushing puberty blockers for these kids, it’s the kids themselves, and their parents have to figure out whether to consent or not. My child is in incredible distress about starting into male puberty and having to live in her body while it changes into something that she is sure will feel utterly alien to her. (I use female pronouns for her mostly out of respect, as it is her strong request at present.) All my talk about how very few of us are fully comfortable in our skins, especially as puberty changes those skins, is falling flat. I believe that if she does turn out to be “really” trans, to really want to live as a woman, then it is cruel for me to remove her ability to pass by denying her access to puberty blockers now. And I believe that there isn’t good data, and that nobody can assure me that giving her blockers won’t make it more likely that she’ll continue to identify as trans female.

    My very first girlfriend, from a really long time ago, is male now. I totally get the way this cultural change feels like an assault, a retreat. But that’s at the societal level. At the individual level, we have people who are really searching and struggling with how to make their outer lives, clothing, bodies, pronouns, match what they feel deeply as their identity. We don’t know how much of the distress, the mismatch, is biological or very early learning … we don’t know how many of these folks would be having how much discomfort with their born-gender if we really lived in a world where any gender expression was really ok regardless of whether one had boy or girl parts. As long as we don’t know, we have to respond with compassion to those who, like us, determine that what is comfortable or essential for us is an identity/presentation/role that is different than what the culture prescribes.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Thank you for your thoughtful and well articulated comment.
      Research shows that 98% of “transgender” youth will grow out of it in adulthood if left alone (no medical intervention). Not that they will grow out of gender rejection, but that they will no longer access psychiatric or medical services. The other 2% has a high co-morbidity, other mental illness. Natural puberty has a profound impact on one’s experience of identity. If your son chooses to take measures to medically/surgically disguise his sex he will be sterilized and also forced into a lifetime of medical treatments/endocrinology that is not currently warranted by his healthy physical body. If he seeks SRS he has a 50% chance of chronic urinary tract infection and/or incontinence. If he has a colo procedure he will suffer from chronic foul smelling bowel discharge from his “neo-vag”. Can you locate an objective possibly feminist psychologist to help him come to terms with social gender bullshit without him mutilating and sterilizing himself?

      No wonder he rejects his born gender. It sucks!
      I wish you both the best.

    • GallusMag Says:

      I agree with you about the vitriol. It’s disgusting that people like Kai Weston are protesting and trying to no-platform any psychiatric or psychological treatment that doesn’t have sterilization and mutilation as the end goal. We’re working to change that though.

  10. QueerMom Says:

    There are many forces arrayed against me, at least about the blockers at this point. I can’t go finding her a different therapist, for instance — my ex and I agreed on a therapist, found somebody who is very sincere and really listening closely to the child, and there’s now investment there. The endocrinologist we’re being referred to is on the liberal end of the spectrum. They really believe they are helping people. And honestly, if I look at the real risk that my child is going to be a transwoman, and the seeming likelihood that a lot of the psychological disturbances we see in transwomen are at least exacerbated by stigma and abuse, it makes some sense to do what we can to enable her to pass better.

    I have to admit that your response to Kai felt more harsh, attacking, than what Kai wrote. (This was on first reading, and when I read them, I didn’t have background about the events you wrote about, or other things either one of you had written.) But even more than your post, the comments from folks supporting you felt really harsh.

    It’s hard, if I try to hook my kid up with resources that will provide different information than she’s hearing from the TYFA folks and the medical community, to find stuff that doesn’t have a hateful edge. I can’t imagine asking a 12-year-old goody-two-shoes nice kid to read these comments and talk with me about how the ideas speak to her particular situation. Where is the information I CAN show her?

    And actually, it’s been hard for me to find information that doesn’t start from a pretty advanced gender analysis, at least a leap ahead of me, and several leaps ahead of my child or the docs.

    The 98% figure specifically is new to me. I’m aware of an 80% number. But also have heard that the study that came out with 80% (described to me as “80% of prepubescent children who met criteria for GID ended up not identifying as trans as adults — don’t know how accurate that is) was from the other end of the political spectrum in treatment of transgender, i.e. politically suspect in the opposite direction.

    I’d love for you to point me – I haven’t read too far back through your blog yet, and there may well be some info there that would help me – or maybe you’ll end up writing something, if you haven’t yet, that will start at a more neutral or uneducated level with the analysis. As an example of the need, I have sat in a support group meeting for parents of trans youth and said something about the homophobic roots of gender dysphoria, and not one of 20 people there had a clue what I was talking about. There’s a lot of unquestioning pro-trans information out there, info that implies that anybody who thinks they’re trans, including at age 5 or 10, really IS in an objective way and should just work on accepting it and transitioning. I’m not finding reasonable-sounding information in the other direction. I’m not finding information from kids who were supported to transition and now think they should have been challenged more. I’m not hearing long-term follow-up info about blockers, much less any randomized trial (goddess forbid!) of kids who qualified for blockers by some criteria and either did or didn’t get them in addition to good therapy.

    I’d be open to emailing/talking to you in person and/or helping you with a critical read or edits — I think you as the blogger have my email address? Feel free to write me directly.

    • Noanodyne Says:

      I’ve created a handy page on my blog that links to many excellent pieces that women have written about this issue. Some of them are more theoretical than others, but the scope represented in those articles covers almost the entire range of political and social arguments about this issue:
      http://noanodyne.com/pro-faab-womens-lib/

      GenderTrender is the only blog that I know of that extensively talks about this issue in relation to children. It’s obviously something that needs that much more attention as the medical establishment ramps up their efforts to label and medicalize children in this way.

      Having said that, here is one piece on another blog that may speak to your immediate situation.
      http://raygunslinger.blogspot.com/2011/03/cuckoo-fantasy.html

  11. QueerMom Says:

    One more thing – the part that feels most disrespectful to me, in how you and supportive commenters talk about transpeople, is that you refuse to use the names and pronouns that they wish you to use. It’s just basic — do you want to enable a respectful, real discussion of real issues?

    We’ve spent generations insisting that we should be able to define our own lives, be referred to as we wish … If people who disagreed with you insisted on calling you “Miss” or “Mrs.”, depending on whether or not you’d ever been married to a man, would that make you feel like there was any seed of respect there for you as a human being with experiences, a brain, and a right to your own self-definition?

    • Noanodyne Says:

      I mean no disrespect when I say this, QueerMom (and I understand how hard this issue must be for you to deal with because it’s your own son), but children decide all kinds of stuff and we don’t take most of those things seriously. We find ways to let them be children and also stay on the lookout for things that are actually harmful to them. Gender transitioning is one of the latter things. As adults we’re the ones who must look to the future instead of the immediate. What Mag is providing you with is an accurate picture of the future.

      As to why the rest of us don’t use those pronouns? We’re radical feminists, it’s that simple. Gender is a made up notion to keep women (including trans women) in a constant state of subjugation to men and lifelong sex-role stereotypical behavior and presentation. This critique is harsh because the results of enforced gender conformity are harsh: rape, rape-for-pay (prostitution), and enforced heteronormativity (including the requirement that women be sex objects most of their lives, starting nearly at birth). The trans movement reinforces gender and so enforces all those things right along with it. When women really get this, they get extremely pissed off and that anger gets pointed at the issue and at the people who try to reinforce that system.

      Does your son have the ability to understand all that? Of course he doesn’t. Most grown adults struggle with it because it is to the system’s benefit for most people to NOT get it. And if they DID get it, gender would cease to exist. So we’re fighting mad and we’re raising our voices and acting like we’re mad as hell, and it’s not pretty. Not one bit.

    • FAB Libber Says:

      If people who disagreed with you insisted on calling you “Miss” or “Mrs.”

      The second wave resolved that problem with “Ms”, which does not denote marital status, so there is no way to get it wrong. Think about it, males only have “Mr” which does not denote marital status. “Miss” and “Mrs” should be abolished. Simple. It is an outdated and discriminatory practice.

      When it comes to trans issues, the simple explanation is that we believe gender is a societal construct, and biological sex is real, and SRS does not change biological sex (take a DNA test for proof), SRS is merely a visual approximation of sex characteristics. Therefore, we use the pronouns of the sex of the person.

      What people seem to forget is that there are trans regretters. Many commit suicide after their SRS, some have the funds to change back, others are stuck with what they now see was a horrible mistake and have to live with it. Pronouns are really a stupid minor issue in all this.

  12. GallusMag Says:

    @Queer Mom-

    Well first of all there is no “hate” on this blog. I think it’s safe to say that every single person on this blog supports the right of every human being to be free from discrimination and violence regardless of their beliefs or gender presentation. As you read more I believe you will see that. Genderism is a cultic belief system and subculture, one with strong taboos against critical thinking and analysis, as you experienced in your attempt to discuss homophobia in your trans youth support group, and as is seen in the TYFA motto “Trust. Accept. Confidence. Treatment.” The motto isn’t “Investigate, Question, Explore, Patience”. Coming from this genderist framework the questioning, analytic, and sometimes even irreverent tone of this blog and it’s commenters must seem quite jarring, as it breaks the genderist taboos against questioning gender. Still, not hate. Not at all.

    I recommend you keep reading. This post and the links there-in may be of particular interest to you: https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/nhs-to-begin-controversial-chemical-castration-studies-on-gay-children-as-result-of-transgender-lobby/ I suggest you begin the research and analysis of the irreversible lifelong disabling “treatment” your child is being prepped for in attempt to make him “fit in” better with traditional (YET RAPIDLY CHANGING) gender norms. Twenty or thirty years ago we could scarcely have imagined the existence of civil unions for same sex partners, much less gay marriage, being gay was something to be hidden in the closet. People went to extraordinary measures to disguise their true nature, and those who did not, and refused to “fit in” to heterocentric social norms suffered greatly. But through their courage the social norms were transformed, and it is now the folks who disguised themselves who are the outliers, and who are widely regarded as traitors to progress. The same thing will happen with gender. In twenty years there will be no need for your son to have disguised his body as female. But the physical and social effects of his having done so will be irreversible. And much of his life will have been wasted obsessing over “passing”, which will no longer even be necessary. Any trans will tell you that no matter how well they “pass”, the SECOND their true sex is known they are treated by others as their true sex, not as the sex they are disguised as. So there is no “end point” to transitioning. It is a constant, endless project. But social norms WILL change, and in your son’s lifetime.

    You can stunt your child’s bone growth so that he never matures and inhabits a child’s body forever, which may make it easier for him to disguise himself as female. There are certain grave medical effects of doing so and I suggest you follow the links in the article I posted above. There ARE no long term studies of these experiments. It is not known how outcomes of those who would have grown out of “gender identity disorder” will be altered by these experiments. The long term effects of puberty blockers- even the short term effects on structures like the brain- are simply not known. Your son will be a guinea pig in this experiment.

    “I’d love for you to point me – I haven’t read too far back through your blog yet, and there may well be some info there that would help me – or maybe you’ll end up writing something, if you haven’t yet, that will start at a more neutral or uneducated level with the analysis. As an example of the need, I have sat in a support group meeting for parents of trans youth and said something about the homophobic roots of gender dysphoria, and not one of 20 people there had a clue what I was talking about.”
    Keep reading. Here, and at the sites listed on my blogroll. You will be surprised how quickly you will start to understand the feminist analysis of gender. Clearly you are intelligent- just jump in and start reading and you will find things that make sense to you, and rather quickly. The decisions you make about your child’s future depend on having the widest range of information available to you. Because your child is now healthy and has every future option available for his life. If you decide to take that away from him at least you will know you did so after being completely informed. (and I get that the kid wants to do whatever it takes to “be a girl” but kids aren’t in a position to see the big picture or have gift of hindsight to see how the things we wanted when we were twelve can –and usually do- change in years to come.)

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts here- I have no doubt they will be helpful and of comfort to other parents who are struggling to deal with these issues personally.

  13. GallusMag Says:

    “One more thing – the part that feels most disrespectful to me, in how you and supportive commenters talk about transpeople, is that you refuse to use the names and pronouns that they wish you to use. It’s just basic — do you want to enable a respectful, real discussion of real issues?”

    This is a blog examining trends in gender. Therefore blog policy is that everyone is treated equally by using pronouns that refer to one’s sex, not gender. There is no disrespect in using pronouns according to sex, not gender. On this blog pronouns denote sex.

  14. jilla Says:

    Hi Mom

    Can you change your son to an arts school? I’m sorry if this seems simplistic. It might make him feel more comfortable, less judged. Maybe the other kids, and the staff will be more accepting. My best to you. And And Happy Mother’s Day. Although it’s a patriarchal consumerist concept, I’ll take it. Hope you will too.

  15. Cizzir Says:

    “is that you refuse to use the names and pronouns that they wish you to use”

    Why do we have to fulfill these wishes? They haven’t yet realized that they CAN’T force people to do this. We are not slaves of the gender ideology like them.

  16. Noanodyne Says:

    Mag, as I re-read this post, your older comments, and now your new ones, it really hit me again what extraordinary knowledge you have about this issue and related, as well as excellent skill in explaining the details and the big picture. Your answer to Kai alone was the perfect explication built on a bulwark of ignorance and double-speak — very hard to do and the result has such clarity. Then you were able to use those ingredients, along with the question from “mom” and further simply the points for her. It is you who should be speaking at parent groups, policy-making meetings, conferences, and the like and getting books published. And it so telling that you must still remain anonymous, instead of taking your rightful place there.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Thanks Noan. I’m reaching quite a few people by writing this blog, arguably more than I would by any other means at this point. But don’t worry- I’m just getting started! As are many other women- parents of kids who were nearly sucked into the “trans” cult, feminist writers, bloggers, LGBT activists, etc. Also some gay men who are awakening to the homophobia inherent in trans. This party’s just getting started!🙂

    • FAB Libber Says:

      I second Mag’s brilliance and knowledge on Tranz!
      xxx
      (are we allowed to do sloppy kissies? LOL)


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