FIGHTING THE LIE OF “TRANS” : Guest Post by Bev Jo

August 15, 2011

FIGHTING THE LIE OF “TRANS”

 

Bev Jo

Women don’t have it easy and Lesbians have it even harder. We are oppressed in patriarchy — by institutions and individuals – we are oppressed by males, by het and bisexual women (who women choose to love is a choice, not something as trivial as “sexual orientation”), and also by men who claim to be women and men who claim to be Lesbians. Not only do they appropriate our identity, including some saying they are more woman than real women (though that’s true in terms of men’s definition of women). Anyone who protests gets death threats. (I have witnessed horrific Lesbian wars since 1970, but I have never seen or heard another Lesbian, no matter how severe the disagreement, threaten another Lesbian with death.)

When you let a woman think for herself and don’t bully or threaten her, don’t call her a “bigot” and “transphobic,” compare her to nazis, and don’t use pseudo-feminist politics against her, what actually is her instinctual reaction to men claiming to be women?  From what I’ve seen and read, it’s an immediate refusal to accept an obvious lie.

But then the pressure starts and most succumb to the harassment and also the flattery, impressed with the attention of these men since, of course, most women have learned the patriarchal rule of valuing men more than women and “keeping the peace” at any cost. Those who think for themselves will see the incredible narcissism of these men. They will also see how these female impersonators have no clue about what it means to be female. If asked, the “transwomen” men will reveal their fetishized, pornified, and objectified image of women that has nothing at all to do with us. It’s also obvious that they have been watching too much male-directed “lesbian” porn.

You can see female impersonators talking endlessly about themselves, groping Lesbians they don’t know in sexually invasive ways, and you can hear them trying to imitate their idea of what a woman is, but their domineering and aggression still comes through.

It is all so obvious, yet Lesbians try so hard to understand and be compassionate and not hurt anyone’s feelings.

But far more than feelings are being hurt. Real women and Lesbians are being bullied and stalked, lectured about how oppressive we are for staying with the truth, and we are losing our last tiny bit of remaining female-only space. We are also getting death threats.

You know what we call men who don’t take “no” for an answer?  Try saying no to these men and see what happens.

I’ve been trying to say no for over forty years to one who stalked me as a teenager right into my Lesbian community, and I still can’t get away. (When he could not get me to be his girlfriend, no matter how hard he pushed, he changed his name to one as close to mine as possible and now slanders me and other Lesbians.) Do know that some of these men have learned well what lies to tell. This one is now saying that he always felt like a girl, which is not at all what he said when he first went after me. He was incredulous that I was in love with another girl, and my being a Lesbian meant nothing to him until he later figured out that he would get a better deal with Lesbians than het women. As a typical het male, he was too pathetic to get into the power positions he later got into in the Lesbian community.

No female should be forced to be in “women’s” space with any man who has sexually harassed her. How many of these men have raped?

These men have histories. Many of them don’t declare they are Lesbians until decades after living with full heterosexual male privilege and sense of entitlement (including the much higher incomes that men get) with wives and children.

But having het male privilege is not enough for them. Some write about hating and being bitterly jealous of little girls who they fantasize as having the “pink bedrooms and ballet lessons” that they were denied. Not many girls want or get those things, but most little girls do get sexually assaulted and all are sexually harassed by boys and men. Why are these men so oblivious to the reality of what real girls suffer?

I have yet to read or hear a story from a man claiming to be a woman that sounds remotely like what a girl felt growing up. On the television series, “Sex Change Hospital,” a man says he knew he was meant to be a woman because when he was four, he got excited seeing his mother’s bra and put it on. Do you know of any girl or woman “excited” from seeing her mother’s bra?  (There is nothing about a bra that is intrinsically female – it’s a device men manufacture and tell women to wear so their breasts stick out.) This man’s wife was surprised he wanted to be a woman because he was such a “macho” man.

Female impersonators never look like real women. They are obsessed with the artifice that men demand women adopt. Their idea of “womanhood” is male-defined, male-identified “femininity,” so that they look like drag queens with their heavy, ugly makeup, plucked unnatural eyebrows, garish costumes, etc. When this man’s surgery was finished, he asked his father to look at his new “vagina.” Does that sound like a woman to you?

Meanwhile, the wives of these men have lost out on the deal that het women make with their husbands, which is heterosexual privilege. (Although some do still get the monetary benefits since some men who claim to be women get a contract guaranteeing their male salary post surgery.)

And then there are the 80% of “transwomen” who don’t have surgery and are some of those who invade our last spaces like the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival so they can expose their pricks to girls and women.

Besides the immediate knowing that these men are not women, why do those who are conned believe that a male medical system with male surgeon, synthetic hormones, and castration can make women out of men? Do they really think that we are just the absence of male parts? Would women so easily believe that someone could use those means to change race or species?

“Transphobia” is a lie. Of course women object to and find it offensive when men mimic us with misogynist ideas of “womanhood.” It’s like expecting African Americans to like Euro-Americans putting on blackface and doing minstrel shows. It’s insulting and oppressive. Do Lesbians bemoan how oppressed transvestites and drag queens are? They are caricaturing female oppression, which is exactly what men claiming to be us are doing.

Part of the problem is that throughout patriarchy there is an ingrained sense that all females somehow belong to all males, to comment on, to order, to possess, to oppress, to own. That is part of why men can feel so comfortable with just appropriating our identity. We are their possessions to play with as they like.

Drag queens and “transwomen” ridicule us. We are not “transphobic.” They oppress us.

II

STRATEGY

 

It’s a basic weapon of patriarchy to divide women. Men are appropriating Lesbian identity and re-writing our Lesbian history and getting into power positions in our Lesbian community. They go where they want and take what they want, ignoring our objections, which is a very male trait. They enjoy the attention of getting women to fight over them. They have no respect for Lesbian culture and community and try to destroy what little we have.

I know very few Lesbians who do not defer to these men and obey them by referring to them as “transwomen” and give them our pronouns. Those of us who refuse to betray our own kind are yelled at, insulted, and threatened. (If you don’t believe me, try it.) Our Lesbian culture, which is SO liberal and tolerant, does not allow any Lesbian to respect her own heart and mind about how she thinks of these men. The men simply come first.

The enforcement of this mass lie is like a brainwashed cult, with absolute obedience demanded. You are not allowed to think for yourself or speak for yourself on behalf of other Lesbians. Your wanting to protect and defend your beleaguered and almost destroyed people is called “hatred.” Middle class rules of “etiquette” and manners are enforced. (I have literally been told to obey Wikipedia’s etiquette on how to properly address a “transwoman.”) And we certainly are not encouraged to make a fuss over something as irrelevant as the truth. We are treated in parental and controlling ways where we are virtually told “How dare you talk back!”

Some “radical feminists” have been so desperate to try to figure a way to not lose more of what we have that they have resorted to betraying themselves. They are trying to work with some of these men as allies, hoping that they will police other female impersonators. They don’t seem aware of past feminist history in regards to trusting men. It doesn’t work. It never will. Those who don’t know history are condemned to repeat it.

The point at which you give up your basic knowledge to participate in a lie, you have lost the struggle and they have won.

What these men want more than anything is for us to accept them as women, publicly refer to them as “transwomen” and give them our pronouns. Agreeing to call them “transwomen” is betraying real women and giving these men exactly what they want. It also opens the door to losing everything. They can then call us more names, such as “misogynist,” for refusing to give into their increasing demands.

It is not sensible strategy to cooperate with defining us out of existence by defining men as any kind of women.

The next stage of complicity is to disrespect and betray other Lesbians and women by telling us to shut up on behalf of these “special women” who are actually men. It is considered more important that they might be offended by us telling the truth than that real Lesbians are insulted and silenced. This has happened on more than one “radical Lesbian Feminist” facebook thread. How is this any different than what has been happening for years where men are lauded at the expense of the Lesbians and women who are oppressed by them?

Have these “radical feminists” changed their plan for their own status and careers or because they mistakenly think this is a good strategy? So few of us have the courage to say the truth, yet you still want to silence us? For men?

This reminds me of Neville Chamberlain triumphantly waiving his worthless piece of paper with Hitler’s signature, declaring he had secured “peace in our time,” while betraying Czechoslovakia to Hitler.

III

Why Not Try this Strategy?

 

Instead of trying to work with men who are part of the problem, why not organize a much bigger group who could get righteously outraged over the issue of men invading women’s space? I’m talking about het women, who certainly outnumber the “good” men claiming women’s identity. I think this has never been attempted simply because of fear of their lesbophobia and Lesbian-hatred.

Though the loyalty has only gone one way, in terms of Lesbians supporting gay men, many Lesbians are afraid to break rank even to be publicly opposed to NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association.) I think the fear is that all of het women’s fear of queers will surface and that somehow we will be betraying gay men and “transpeople,” as if we really have anything in common with them.

Lesbian Feminism came out of alliances with het feminists. Lesbians soon separated because of het feminists’ Lesbian-hatred (though a lot of het feminists also came out.) But really, we are more natural allies with women than any kind of men, especially since it is all a choice and any het woman at any age can decide to join us. They are also oppressed by men and patriarchy. At this point, I think I trust even non-feminist het women to recognize “transwomen” as simply the men that they are more than I do some Lesbian feminists. Certainly these women would not want female impersonators using the same public restrooms as their little girls. This isn’t “transphobia.” This is sensible women recognizing that these men, like all men, are prurient and dangerous to girls.

So how about it?  Has anyone fighting to stop female impersonators from invading our space considered allying with het women on this issue? I would think we might even get a few concerned het and gay men who are fed up with the bullying of female impersonators and are worried about laws changing that might make their daughters vulnerable.

Whatever strategy you choose, remember that it is important to not be conned or mindfucked in any way by men claiming our identity. They are not our friends or allies, no matter how much the LGBTQuerty is shoved down our throats. That group has never supported Lesbians. We have always supported ourselves. So let’s not give them any bit of what they are demanding – FEMALE IMPERSONATORS ARE NOT WOMEN!  Please, do not support them by calling them “transwomen,” “transsexuals” or “transgender.”

Instead, please do what Lesbians rarely do — support other Lesbians. Put females and Lesbians first for a change, since no one else does.


For more of Bev Jo’s writings visit her site at:  Bev Jo Radical Lesbian

 

 

 

117 Responses to “FIGHTING THE LIE OF “TRANS” : Guest Post by Bev Jo”

  1. Bev Jo Says:

    What an honor to be posted with you, Gallus Mag! You are our champion. Every woman should see your posts, revealing in their own words and videos, how men can never become women, and women can never become men. You show the truth, and no con can cover it up.

  2. GallusMag Says:

    Thank You for the fantastic Guest Post Bev.🙂


  3. “Transphobia” is a lie. Of course women object to and find it offensive when men mimic us with misogynist ideas of “womanhood.” It’s like expecting African Americans to like Euro-Americans putting on blackface and doing minstrel shows. It’s insulting and oppressive. Do Lesbians bemoan how oppressed transvestites and drag queens are? They are caricaturing female oppression, which is exactly what men claiming to be us are doing.

    Yes indeed, my “Blackface” post is about that. The following post “Tootsie fest!!!” is a pictorial study on the type of so-called women that would be allowed into female bathrooms when most of these laws are in place.

    The unfortunate thing is that, in many places, including the UK, “gender identity” is recognised as grounds for “sex identity” changes to official paperwork like birth certificates. SRS is not a requirement at all. In most cases, we are arguing from a point where the law is very much in their favour. As such, there is little chance of getting existing laws revoked, only amended. The primary amendment would be the full SRS requirement in the case of males minstrelising females. Unfortunately, SRS never cures their male attitudes or behaviours, so additionally, there needs to be discretionary enforcement of sex segregated spaces that would not be subject to anti gender-identity discrimination laws.

    Alliance with het women, for sure. However, certain quarters of the lesbian community need to stop looking down their noses at het women. There are never enough lesbians to enact a strong resistance to patriarchical advances, and the numbers always require het women.

  4. E N Says:

    I see you were too frightened to post my comment. How pathetic.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Try posting something that has some relation to the words you have read in the post you are responding to. I don’t let idiots who haven’t even read the post piss all over my blog. Try somewhere else. For a comment to be approved it must in some way engage with the material that one is responding to. Thanks.

  5. GallusMag Says:

    I took Bev’s comment about alliance with het women to mean seeking allies among the women who are outside the LGBT and Feminist communities- the mainstream.
    Part of the issue is that no community is effected by Genderism as disastrously as the Lesbian community. Which is by design. 70% of male transgenders are hetero men who demand entry into Lesbian spaces “as women”. And 70% of female transgenders are Lesbians who are being “cured” by the medical/psychiatric establishments. The effects of Genderism might be difficult for someone outside the Lesbian community to grasp, much less resist.

    • GallusMag Says:

      And I certainly don’t think Lesbian issues have had the slightest support from those outside the Lesbian community. Quite the contrary.


    • I took Bev’s comment about alliance with het women to mean seeking allies among the women who are outside the LGBT and Feminist communities- the mainstream.

      Well I did too for the most part.
      But in order to do that, the focus needs to be always on “all women and girls”, rather than framed on the devastation to the lesbian community. I do realise that the devastation is well under way already, with M2Ts taking leadership roles in feminist groups (seriously, wtf?), and the lesbian community is sort of a canary-in-the-mine for what will be rolled out to females everywhere.

      The other reason that M2Ts are flouncing in and having themselves put in leadership positions is that the main front of patriarchical resistance comes from lesbian-feminists, so it is important for them to take out those lesbian-only spaces. They are effectively performing the roles that the eunuchs did, guarding the harem, but this time they infiltrate to disrupt any resistance forces. And disrupt they do.

      The positive(!) that is going on is that this recession should wake many more women up to what is going on as far as male domination and male privilege. Women and women’s services have been the hardest hit already, including the discrimination in the workforce, being made redundant in higher numbers and selected last to fill positions. Meanwhile, the bankers that fucked things up big time are still getting hefty bonuses. (wtf)

      So hopefully greater numbers of women will wake up to what has been happening, and rise up against male domination once more, like the 70s. We are already seeing a slow but steady trickle align with radfem theory, after being appalled by libfeminism/funfeminism. Radfems need to realise that we do lead the charge in rebellion. And we will be getting greater numbers, and it will be soon.

      • GallusMag Says:

        “Well I did too for the most part.
        But in order to do that, the focus needs to be always on “all women and girls”, rather than framed on the devastation to the lesbian community.”

        I disagree that the “focus should never be on the Lesbian community”. Why should the focus never be on the community most hard hit by the issue? Do you think the focus should never be on any minority communities if those minorities seek majority support around an issue?

    • Roooozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Says:

      I think that Radical Feminists should target women’s prisons. Women prisoners make up only a minuscule percentage of worrisome crime. The most of them are prostitutes and drug addicts: victims.

      The idea about Het people is, I think, sound. For example: My husband is not a sex offender/rapist. He ALSO agrees with Lesbian Feminists that male bodied people should not be in female private spaces. … Most people also agree with this as being a sound principle. Only (and this should be repeated) only weirdo’s want this.


      • I’ve posted before saying that as a heterosexual woman I am totally in support of your views and this blog. I am utterly outraged that what I would see as straight men are “transitioning” to become self-defined lesbians. Men can’t be women and they sure as hell aren’t lesbians.

        I can only imagine what an assault such claims are on lesbians, many of whom (like me) have been attacked by men. Lesbians face one further outrage that other women don’t: corrective rape, and some don’t want any men near them if they can possibly avoid it. My own experience of men has been mixed, with some excellent. They vary…

        I have been appalled to read that transwomen are infiltrating all-woman groups and shelters, demanding to be included as women in what were safe places where the actual women have every reason to exclude the men they are. The claim that a penis can be a female organ is sheer nonsense, and nasty with it. Very few transwomen convince visually, which I guess is a plus if you’re a lesbian.

        Gay men don’t seem to care about this issue, which is disappointing. However I think you’d get a lot more support from straight women and men than you perhaps realise. I know a number of men who would condemn the intrusion of so-called male lesbians without hesitation. Men disapprove of men in women’s clothes using the ladies loos. I have young adult sons and they agree that transgender intrusion into women’s spaces is plain wrong. They and their friends are far more feminist than my peers were, back in the day.

        It makes very little odds to governments whether an individual defines themselves as male or female when so few want to swap. They don’t care about birth certificates and driving licences. When they see that crime is being generated this may — possibly — rouse interest, at least in the courts.

        I suspect the issue will become more mainstream after there have been enough violent crimes or prison attacks by “lesbian” men to cause a backlash. I note that transwomen commit crime at the same rate as men, and a higher rate when it comes to violent and sex crimes.

  6. Barbara Di Bari Visconti Says:

    I think alliances with het women on this issue would be fine, but please don’t let it be right wing het women! I have a friend who was harassed and received death threats from the “pro lifers” when she ran for state office in a midwestern state on a pro choice platform. The right wing women just support the right wing men, including the death threateners.

    • GallusMag Says:

      “The right wing women just support the right wing men, including the death threateners.”
      But the women didn’t make death threats. Men did. As they nearly always do. Women should always ally with women over men- even men who take hormones recreationally.

  7. 7 of 9 Says:

    [Try posting something that has some relation to the words you have read in the post you are responding to. I don’t let idiots who haven’t even read the post piss all over my blog. Try somewhere else. For a comment to be approved it must in some way engage with the material that one is responding to. Thanks. – GM]

  8. Bev Jo Says:

    I’m a Lesbian Separatist and came into the Lesbian Feminist community in 1970, by which time there was not much contact with het feminists (unless you were part of the groups happily doing childcare for them so they could have free time with their boyfriends.) I haven’t seen much support from them for us, but certainly many of them did and still are coming out. There is actually no solid barrier between us. A friend just told me about her 71 year old friend who wants to find a female lover after being het all her life.

    Anyway, it’s not like me to recommend working politically with het women. The most contact I’ve had has been in the last year online where I’ve been horrified at most of them being incredibly lesbophobic, Lesbian-hating, and clueless.

    However, if any radical Lesbian Feminists are at the stage of suggesting we mind our manners and not upset the lovely “transwomen” who they have found as allies, then I think they need to think again — to not insult their true allies, to not divide us as a movement, to realize yet again no men can be trusted, to not fuel any man’s claim on being a woman, and, most importantly, to think about who really will care about losing these basic rights, which include safety for little girls.

    I’m talking about limited political alliances here, like about laws that would prevent any men from going into public restrooms, etc. I’m definitely not talking about working more closely with them and subjecting ourselves to their lesbophobia.

    But I think the genderqueer and gay male alliances (which I’ve never been part of) have had a deep effect in stopping many Lesbian activists. I think too many identify with how non-queers look at drag queens with disgust and horror, and so want to protect them. Yes, some het women look like that at us obvious Dykes also, but men posing as women aren’t exactly looking at us with love or benevolence either.

    I think it could be useful to encourage and support what is most women’s (including Lesbians’) natural first reaction to seeing a female impersonater in full misogynist, female-hating, fetishizing, pornifyng, objectifying drag: repulsion and disgust. They might not even have the politics, but they know it’s wrong. They know it’s ridiculing them. (I remember when my parents and I first moved to the SF Bay Area in 1965 and it was the thing to do for het couple tourists to go to drag shows at nightclubs in SF. My mother was disgusted. She had no words for it. She knew ut was very popular and people paid money to see these drag queen men on stage. But she just knew they were ridiculing her and other women, and it was wrong. She hated it.)

    That is what I think could be tapped into. I think almost all women would agree, if only they don’t lose their natural sense by genderqueer and misguided feminist politics. Can any male be trusted around little girls (or boys for that matter)? No, of course not. Priests are bad enough. But men who claim to be women and are extreme narcissists and dress in drag have less obstacles to rationalizing why it’s fine for them to molest anyone they can get their hands on. I’ve seen them do it with adult Lesbians in public more than I’ve seen regular het men doing it.

    I do also think that some gay and het men might agree about keeping separate bathrooms if they have daughters to protect. Men are usually more honest about and more in touch with knowing what men are capable of, while women make excuses for men. I’m not suggesting working politically with them, but really how is that different from working wih men claiming our identity?

    My main focus here is why work at all with men who say they are women? Why support them in any way? Break down to specifics of what you want to accomplish and think about who is the best ally for just that goal. Who will understand, who has the numbers, and who has the hidden agenda.

    • KatieS Says:

      Thanks, Bev Jo, for a great guest post!

      It is interesting to think about people from some of the groups that might be allies. But we are talking only allies about single issues, in this case restrooms, locker rooms, etc. We often make distinctions between liberal and conservative women. But no woman wants her daughter in a restroom with someone who has a penis. Even if liberal het women are being supportive of the rights of trans, they still normally don’t want their daughter in the restroom or locker room with men. Same with right-wing or other conservative women. Also men who are fathers, large numbers who would not want males to have access to their daughters. I’d guess that even some trans with children would be against this, perhaps more so, though they may not say it publicly. And there are some vocal trans who are against it publicly. I think that this latter group realizes that it is an indefensible position, to allow this access. Each group is important if we are going to recover our rights to female-only space.

      Now, I don’t expect that many of these groups will support lesbians in most other ways, but the question becomes how to protect our women-only spaces. All allies to this cause are welcome as far as I’m concerned.


      • I think the issue of male athletes now insisting that they’re female competitors and competing — and winning — against women will get you a lot of allies. Any parent with a sporty daughter will be furious if they get beaten by a bloke pretending to be a girl. I get the feeling that sports are very important in America particularly.


      • I’m the mother of a sporty son and I definitely do not want him competing against girls. My son is half my weight and only eleven years old and the biological advantage he has over females is already evident. He could seriously hurt a girl, even if she were the same weight and age. Coming into puberty, he’s due a serious growth spurt next year, at the same time girls stop growing. The disadvantage is evident and could result in catastrophic injury. He started playing soccer at four and up until about eight years old the teams were co-ed, after that they’re sex-segregated. Even if a girl wants to play against the boys, after a certain age I think it’s unwise and dangerous.

  9. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you, Gallus and Fab, for having the courage to continue to post as you have. You could hope going when it looks like things are at their worst.

  10. Bev Jo Says:

    Someone just reminded me about the legal problems of “post-op” female impersonators being considered no longer male. But, really, laws are so strange anyway. The US used to have a law that each slave counted as three-fifths of a person, so the slave-holding states got more representation in congress. Basically, they can do whatever they want, based on public sentiment. That was about racism and money and making deals, but it shows how completely illogical it can be.

    I think anything can be done. It goes against the whole genderqueer movement, but why not still count “post-op” men as men in regards to female-only space? I know then the idea of “policing” will come up, but really, men in drag have always tried to get into women’s restrooms. Let’s not be discouraged by what gains they’ve made. The focus should be on safety in a way that gets almost everyone involved.

    It’s about not losing our own rare space, but really, enough little girls get sexually assaulted as it is. Even men who assault their own daughters, sisters, nieces, etc. do NOT like strange men to do it.

  11. yttik Says:

    That was well said, Bev Jo. Oh, yes, yes, please, let’s build alliances with women. Let’s create some solidarity and let’s all start putting women first. That’s been my agenda forever. All females do have an interest in female safety. We are all natural allies.

    Lesbians are more needed in a women centered feminist movement than ever. I have noticed an absence and it’s left a huge hole. Somewhere between the fun fems and their pro-sex empowerment message and the trans-advocates, feminism has lost it’s focus on women. I remember lesbian/ het alliances, domestic violence shelters being built, women’s health clinics, sexual assault laws being written. That’s not completely gone, it’s just that speaking of “identity,” women born women need to come together and claim theirs. We’re half the human race.

  12. Mary Sunshine Says:

    Bev, I don’t think most het women will ever care, unfortunately. They are much less likely to care now than they were even in the 1970’s. Females (statistically) no longer make common cause with each other. Witness the extinction of feminism, lesbian-feminism, and lesbian separatism. Females embrace increasingly female-hating behaviours and attitudes, and enforce them amongst each other more intensely all the time.

    Hmmmm … perhaps it’s time for us to do a little market research. Focus groups? 😉 Unofficial surveys. How would we set about doing so? Other than on the internet, which I don’t think is representative.

    ** …. toddles off into the distance wondering how to go about talking to het women …. **

  13. kesechewan Says:

    Thanks for this Bev Jo. I save your posts. So much to think about.

    Me, I’m het.

    My perspective is, we are all women. I remember in the day when we learned about a conference leader asking who was lesbian among the attendes, and all the women stood up. Het, Lesbian, Bi.

    I stand for you.


    • Yes, I think a much more radical definition of “lesbian” is a woman that’s truly woman-identified.

      Is it better to align with lesbians that are pro S/M, and pro-porn than to align with heterosexual feminists who we share the same politics with? I thought feminism was about woman-identification and sisterhood for/with *all* women.

  14. kesechewan Says:

    Ahh but Barbara, give me a “right-wing” woman almost any day over the porn supporting slut-trotting women who think they’re going to fuck their way to freedom.

  15. Rachel M Says:

    BevJo, your link was provided on Facebook. I’m sure there are probably other transsexuals reading and more than likely, you are probably taking heat even if GallusMag is deleting comments. You make a lot of general assumptions about transsexuals and motivations and its really quite hurtful. I too have daughters and I’m very aware of their vulnerability. I watched my ex give birth to them and I know I will never experience that. She is a real woman. I am constructed. I know all of these things, and I have no ill feeling toward you or any other lesbian enjoying your private space. You won’t see me at MichFest protesting and you won’t see me discounting the true experience of womanhood. My children still call me dad, as I respect the role my ex played in their lives and would never attempt to take that away from her.

    I transitioned to have peace of mind, nothing else. I lived with male privilege and I built my career on it. I’m not blind to the facts and I know my last promotion is just that, my last.

    Where you lose me though is access to general public female accommodations, such as bathrooms. Myself entering a male bathroom at this point is about as unacceptable to the general public as you seem to believe my entering a female bathroom would be. I have a right as a person to exist. Most anyone would read me as female. I felt like utter rubbish, horribly depressed, prior to transition. I reached out for help and found it. My doctors helped me through a lot of self acceptance issues and basically, I chose to live instead of becoming a statistic. Now, I encounter these words and see I won’t ever be able to be a man (from my own personal misery), or a woman in your eyes (and I know you aren’t the only one).

    I respect your right to freely assemble with those you associate with and I won’t ever try to take that from you. I would just ask that you might consider we transsexuals aren’t all the same, and many of us are just as uncomfortable as yourself with guys in a dress forcing their way into public female spaces.

  16. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you all for the comments, and thanks, kesechewan, for the support.

    I mostly agree, Mary, but also agree with Katie. I don’t expect most het women to really support us, or they would come out. But if this issue is about protecting “children,” or, for some, protecting property since children are their possessions, then that might have an effect. And also, some het women do feel very strongly about abuse and cruelty of any kind. The Rat Rescue community is 98% women and they are mostly a wonderful group of international women. They would kill to defend their little ones, and many women do feel that way about girls. We just have to get the information out that matches first impressions of these men.

    I am really not suggesting that Radical Lesbians and Feminists get involved with this other that those working on the legislation. But rather than trusting men claiming our identity, this is another option, especially if the price is to give those men want they want.

    I’m guessing that the way things are now, “transsexuals” are a sacred identity among the LGBTQuerty, but are a joke among the hets. Not many realize how incredibly vicious and dangerous they are. I shocked a Separatist friend today by saying that I trust het men more — but I do. I have not seen them act as aggressively as men masquerading as Lesbians. And again, I am a Separatist, so I basically do not trust any men and am rarely around them. And, I guess that that is what this is all about for me. Our female-only space is precious and these aggressive men want to destroy it. They want access to us against our will. I had two of them in my face at two events this week — nasty, petulant, domineering, furious they aren’t getting more attention, furious that they are not worshipped. I think most of the Lesbians tolerate them, feel sorry for them, are embarrassed by them, or don’t like them but don’t know how to avoid them. Everyone I talk with about Elliott said they could tell right away he’s a man. No one ever seems interested in being involved with him or the other one. That’s a kind of no, but doesn’t stop them.

    It’s also, for me, about that no being so important. They win when we accept them. They’ve won almost all that we have. I don’t want them to win any more. I want to be rid of them.

  17. SheilaG Says:

    I think male entitled by birth people like Rachel mistake individual choices with political danger. Men destroy and undermine non-conforming women born women all the time. It is not just about a personal choice for you to build a career, create children with a male body, and then jump into a “female looking” construction by a male medical model… that is not what we are talking about.

    We are talking about attacks, death threats and the desire for the trans gang to invade our space, and that also means male bodies in women’s restrooms.
    We don’t trust men, we don’t trust men who have been cut up and sliced and diced into a male fantasy of what women are.

    Nothing men create has anything to do with freedom loving lesbians, who stand firm in our horror at the male colonization of women’s bodies, and now our very forms. And in this war men are waging on women, trans should not be allowed in women’s restrooms period, male people need to stay in male wash rooms, and fight it out within patriarchal constructs. We are not your experiments or your future territory to colonize. And the Rachels of this world stand by, and watch as the trans death threats escallate against lesbians… etc.

  18. SheilaG Says:

    And on another note… het women steal lesbian resources, and have been wasting lesbian time for decades now. Het women do NOT PAY BACK political debts. They expect us to come running on all the boring issues they surround themselves with… child care, husbands beating the heck out of them, strip joints, porn … Het women pretend to be “tolerant” and as long as you don’t rock the boat het women are ok. But they have always been afraid of lesbian nation, because we call them as they are… collaborators, collaborators with men… women willing to have sex and choose to have sex with the oppressor. It’s really that simple.
    Lesbians created Michigan, what institution have het women created that makes lesbians feel welcome and full participants, and I bet you can’t name a single institution where this was built into the structure from the get go.
    I agree that all women should unite, and I think many het women are well intentioned, but they are social cowards when lesbians push through oppression, they do bring their husbands into women’s events.

    Het women will mouth a “liberal” party line, usually assuming that we want to participate in a garbage patriarchal institution like marriage, for example. They get shocked when I say I would never do such a thing. We don’t desire anything resembling a het based social structure as radical lesbian feminists, and we don’t have much patience with women who willingly chose to be with men because they couldn’t face the social pressure.

    We can unite, but I’m not willing to go along with a het agenda, unless a lesbian agenda is front and center first… and that means I don’t want some damn het woman in my lesbian bar expecting ME to buy her a drink! grrrrr

  19. SheilaG Says:

    The most radical thing anyone can do is say lesbian issues are number one, and that LESBIAN stands alone free of the colonizing of the “queer”movement.

  20. Purplerage Says:

    This seems out of place here, but I’m using this as my starting point, I have to say that I don’t think I’ve actually ever experienced happiness being in a female body – I was violated on numerous occasions before I’d even reached the age of four by the pimp who’d prostituted my mother when she was only nineteen years old, fresh out of an orphanage/children’s home.

    I did not grow up heterosexual and was completely alienated from my female body. Once puberty struck, it felt like a profound bodily violation and it increased the suicidal feelings I’d been living with since I was seven. I spent years self-harming, especially taking my distress out on the breasts which continued to develop. My periods lasted for 11 days at a time and were so degrading and painful that my female body felt like my worst enemy. I remember years of battling with my mother not to be forced to wear the degrading girl’s clothes she would insist upon, and not being excepted as a ”proper” girl by my hetero-female peers.

    My mantra was ”I am never going to be a woman, I am never going to be a woman,” which was a reaction to the horrors I’d witnessed with regards to the adult females suffering at the hands of men around me and the unrelenting myriad of messages I’d received from the dominant heteropatriarchal culture at large.Take any image on the billboards, magazine covers, porn, fashion, movies and language itself as to what a ‘woman’ is defined as being with no alternative allowed, it was antithectical to my wanting my bodily integrity and autonomy, to not exist in relation to a man or the male glaze, I wanted my personhood, the right to exist as a person free of sex roles, to not have any ‘gender identity’ imposed upon me, to be free of all the heteropatriarchal, male supremacist sexual dictates and to simply enjoy so-called neutral human status. However, in this male supremacist world that is the one thing you are never allowed as a biological female being.

    I learnt to disconnect from my body for many, many years and it was only reading the writings of radical lesbian feminists/radical feminists and listening to the experiences of never-het dykes growing up that I realized that I wasn’t alone, that there was a way of being female outside of heteropatriarchal definitions, outside of sex roles and the vile paraphernalia that is obligatory with those constructed roles.

    I think for any alliances to truly succeed biological females need to have these discussions with eachother. Of course, due to diversity, lesbian and hetero-female experiences will differ from eachother in a variety of ways, but there should also be very much of a common ground – we really need the consiousness raising groups that were common in the 70’s and this most definitely needs to include young females who ‘identify as trans’ and those that are still questioning. Don’t you think we need to start from scratch, just sharing our earliest experiences with eachother in all its painfulness, with awkward humor, anger and resentment, just sharing the bare bone realities of what it meant and means growing up biologically female in this vile, unrelentingly misogynistic heteropatriarchal world and it’s cultures?

    I’m speaking about some of these things for no other reason than to draw attention to the reality of what it means to grow up as a biological female, irrespective of what one is feeling inside as it’s our external biological body that determines how we are judged, valued, treated and looked upon as a female, what is denied us, what is expected of us and what is imposed upon us etc. and we need a safe space to do this, and yes, a female- only space which needs to be respected.

    Reading some of the feelings that F2Ts speak of I can identify with at least some of things they share. They make the mistake of thinking that they are the only ones to feel like that, and that those feelings are caused by internal factors. It’s external factors that impact upon us internally, that make it feel so intensely personal that it feels as if the feeling genuinely comes from something deep within. In such conservative, and reactionary times as these, it’s much easier to believe this (as I did once for many, many years), because when one is forced to think about such feelings and the impact upon one as being externally caused, it’s very frightening and incredibly overwhelming, and the political implications are daunting, but it can also make one angry at the injustice of it all, and yes, whilst it makes things very messy, one finally has a far better understanding of how oppression works as something very complicated and multifaceted.

    Sorry Gallus and Bev, I really don’t know if my response belongs here, but surely none of us can come together and form alliances without going back to square one, we need to have consiousness raising groups again to discuss what it really means to be a biological female in this world as things stand now. Perhaps I’m wrong and it won’t work, but we need to get to the heart of the problem which surely is rooted in our formative, life experiences as biological females and all the external factors that contributed to who we are now as females. It might be unrealistic of me, naive perhaps, but I can’t think how else we could get back in touch with that. Othewise we’ll just keep going roung in circles with the usual breakdowns in communication – who knows, consiousness raising might bring about the foundations of a new political vocabulary, amongst other things regarding the trans issue between lesbian feminists, radical het /lesbian feminists and other female allies??

    Yes, of course, CR would have to exclude those who were not born female, M2Ts have very different experiences and realities and issues and I think it’s foolish to pretend otherwise.

    M2Ts need to show and learn respect for experiences outside of their own, especially a respect for biological female personal histories and experiences. On the internet at least, that sadly does not appear to be the case for the most part, which I find most distressing, perhaps they need their own consiousness raising groups too?!

    Gallus, if you should find my comment out of place and not in keeping with the subject matter of Bev’s article and wish to delete my ramble I will most certainly understand?! I was very tired when I wrote the above and it may well have been too personal at the beginning. Thank you.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Thank you for your amazing, thoughtful comments.


    • purplerage,

      Just wanted to express my thanks for all that you wrote.

      I honestly believe women have more in common than not.

      I agree we need to have CR groups again, but how do we even start? Women in my area have tried, and what happened was that the younger women who joined denied they were feminist.

      At my school, the “feminist” group on campus has said they have CR groups, which are really horribly anti-feminist discussion groups that include men. I suppose trying to form one through meet-up or by putting up signs in the area might work….despite all that I’ve read, I don’t really understand how the CR groups worked. I mean, how would one attract women who don’t (yet) have a feminist conscious? We need women to get angry again. That’s my answer. Then they’ll be ready to talk…and more.🙂

  21. stone Says:

    Just as an aside, Gallus Mag thanks for protecting Bev here, her right to speak, from what I’m sure is a slough of hate in your mod cue.

    • Purplerage Says:

      That is beautifully said stone, and I second that.

      • stone Says:

        Your post is so articulate and perceptive, purple. I’m so glad you’ve survived and found your way here. Welcome. I don’t know you but look forward to reading more and learning from you.

  22. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you so much, Purple, for sharing your story. Of course you belong here! Absolutely. I agree that CR groups would be good for women, and to get rid of what came in and damaged our strong community of the Seventies. It wasn’t just the porn and sado-masochism, but also the rejecting of our basic ideals, such as having no leaders, being suspicious of academics, and every where that Lesbians gave up power, including thinking for themselves. The “leaders” were often the worst, and are so worshipped now.

    But CR groups is grass-roots and equal. I don’t know about female impersonators though. They just need to realize that they have appropriated an identity that isn’t theirs. If they aren’t happy as men, then make a new category that is in oppostion to that, rather than trying to steal what little we have left. I appreciate that you don’t want to take from us, Rachel. But you still can’t be us or claim to be us. That is essential.

    It’s true, Purple, that who would want to be a woman as it is defined in patriarchy? What female would want to be pornified and objectified? I do understand not wanting that. That’s why I write opposing male-identifed “femininity.”

    And I really agree with you, Sheila. I do not want to put energy into anyone not Lesbian. No one cares for Lesbians, but Lesbians. If we have a strong Lesbian community again, then that does help het women.

  23. SheilaG Says:

    I think the strongest statement lesbians make is we create a world in our own image free of men. We stand our ground proving you need no men in your life to truly flourish as an adult. Most women seem to think they need men living with them, lesbians prove them wrong and create the space that is powerful. Go into lesbian only space and you’ll see magnificent power that doesn’t exist in het worlds ever.

    It’s so powerful than everyone on earth will do everything to destroy lesbian only spaces and now trans are invading by the hundreds to steal this space as well…. LESBIAN stands alone outside of the penis, outside of the male, outside of het forced servitude and conformity… butch lesbians reject completely the slave face of forced male created feminine masks. We are free of all of that, and that is why trans and “queer’ are so reactionary and anti-lesbian… put your faith in “leaders” and “academics” and it doesn’t serve lesbian nation one bit. CR groups again… yes.. but with me, I’m not at square one, and want the advanced class. I’m not sure het women are ever going to get it, and it’s a waste of time with them most of the time.

  24. jane hathaway Says:

    Purple your comments are very truthful and in fact resonate with me and prob. with so many of us. Yes CR could move the political climate if (big if) women would actually come. Currently they won’t come. Not even Dykes will come. I have found that recently in trying to get CR groups off the ground. Bev & Gallus Mag, your clarity and integrity are exciting and energizing. Sheila your comments are spot-on. I remember the ERA here in the u.s. was defeated by fear-mongering having largely to do with unisex bathrooms.We still have no ERA, and the liberal elites think of GLBT as one movement–they fight for trans recognition. In my workplace in a middle class conservative institution a female impersonator uses the women’s restroom. There was no push to make him stay out. Rather, we posted warning signs that parents should accompany children in there. We may get pricks out of women’s restrooms. Beyond that–getting men out of Lesbian spaces–seems not yet doable. Most of my Lesbian friends are allied with the GLBTs

  25. maggie Says:

    I am het and want to stand up too. You’ve always had my support.

    This from Julie Bindel, whom I adore, in the Guardian today😉

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/the-womens-blog-with-jane-martinson/2011/aug/15/gay-rights-israel

  26. Chonky Says:

    Very disheartening to continually read from a minority viewpoint about het women supposedly oppressing lesbians.

    To the two handful of females who are fortunate enough to never have had sex with doods albeit consenual or coerced, the last thing on my mind is haranguing their past or current choices.

    My mate of over 20 years is an ex-het, and through good luck and happenstance, my label is far more in line with precious metals. (yay)

    Thank goodness Sea chose me to be her partner, she chose me over 100 percent of the population, not just 51.

    As far as never purchasing a het a cocktail at the club? Well, Sea and I would not be the couple we are today if I didn’t.😉

  27. yttik Says:

    Bev Jo’s article and some of the comments have brought up a couple of issues. For one, as the official spokeswoman for all het women, (I’m teasing of course) we’re stuck in a real bind. The fun/fems want us to empower ourselves with lots of PIV. Many of the L’s from the LGBT movement advocate for trans, rather than women, and call us haters. Men think we’re oppressing them. Lesbians are concerned about our lesbiaphobia and call us collaborators. Liberal women call us right wingers, prudes, or accuse us of doing feminism wrong. So as het women, we pretty much get dumped on by everybody. Whatever we’re doing, I promise you we’re doing it wrong.

    The patriarchy is very good at separate, divide, and control. They keep women from building solidarity with each other, because that’s where our power lies. We’re half the human race. Actually we’re the majority, so if we ever figured out how to align ourselves in solidarity, the patriarchy would fall. Lesbian and het women have to build alliances because that’s where our power is.

    One problem with the LGBT movement is that there’s never been a W in there. Men have come along and demanded their own letters, Varients, Cross Dressers, Gender Benders, so in some places there is now a LGBTCDGBV movement. Seriously, no joke. The few women who are FtM, well, they want a male identified reality too. At the same time, rad/fems have been rejecting femininity identity, rigid gender roles, primarily for women. So what’s happened is that there is now a movement that has become very male dominated. The W is being rejected on every level, except for the trans of course, who seem more interested in making a mockery of women, or outright bullying them. Regardless, the message comes through loud and clear, pink is out. No girls or girly things allowed here, unless you are a man of course. Like it or not, the next step is to simply bump that L off the front of the letters. I’ve watched as LGBT movements have written mission statements, opposing transgender oppression, opposing homophobia, even opposing racism. What’s usually missing is sexism. Addressing the oppression of half the human race doesn’t even get mentioned anymore. We’ve already been erased as women. “Misogyny” is now what “cis privileged” het women do to trans. “Homophobia” is now something that right wing het women do to. I’m telling you, it gets exhausting oppressing everybody. The power of all this born woman privilege combined with our innate evilness is just too much to bear sometimes. I’m being a smart ass, of course.

    If women could give each other the benefit of the doubt, just one tenth as much as we do for men, it would be a real step forward. We need to come together and create an identity as women. The problem is the that patriarchy is real good at turning things on their head and convincing us that women are the enemy, the oppressors, the collaborators. This is so effective that there are now actually lesbians who are convinced that they should be out advocating for trans rather than for born women because born women are sometimes lesbiaphobes or right wingers or don’t recycle or something.

    Lib fems are running around putting men in teeshirts claiming “this is what a feminist looks like” and some rad fems are running around dressing men in women’s clothing and saying “this is what a woman looks like!” It’s enough to make you want to bang your head on something.

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      I am so with you, yttik!
      We now haz a movement of two.
      Up against 3 billion plus.
      I like them odds.

      • kesechewan Says:

        “The power of all this born woman privilege combined with our innate evilness is just too much to bear sometimes.”

        Absolutely on target. Plus ca change plus ca meme chose. It’s all so Biblical.

  28. GallusMag Says:

    I told Bev that I feared her commentary on hetero women “oppressing” Lesbians would divert from the main point of her post, and it has. I’m really not interested in the topic of female heirarchies of oppression under patriarchy. Not about who makes what compromises, who has limited access to borrowed male privilege from the male ruling class, etc. Sorry, but the topic is not interesting to me because to me it is so inconsequential to the topic at hand which is Women’s Liberation and freedom from Male Domination. I would like to steer the comments back to the topic of: Strategies Against Genderism and Building Alliances Against Genderism. Otherwise I will get bored. And if I get bored I will close the comments. So please humor me and lets address the broader issues here. Thanks.

  29. GallusMag Says:

    Sorry yttik- I crossposted at the same time as you. My comments were not directed at you.

  30. GallusMag Says:

    “The patriarchy is very good at separate, divide, and control. They keep women from building solidarity with each other, because that’s where our power lies. We’re half the human race. Actually we’re the majority, so if we ever figured out how to align ourselves in solidarity, the patriarchy would fall. Lesbian and het women have to build alliances because that’s where our power is.

    One problem with the LGBT movement is that there’s never been a W in there.”

    THIS.THIS.THIS.THIS.THIS.

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      Yep, bit by bit, the Ls (or the Ws) in the LGBTWTFBBQ, *somehow* just keep getting omitted. We haz new shiny sparkly laydees now in the alphabet, to take over from those rather drab lesbians in unflattering clothes and shoes. Yay!

      I have been unimpressed by the alphabet alliance for some time you may have noticed.

      Lets throw the focus back onto the 51% of the population, and male domination as *the problem*. Shit, male domination is ALSO the problem in the alphabet ffs.

      • yttik Says:

        I’ve been wary of the alphabets a while now too, but it’s difficult because I recognize that L’s need a community of their own. I don’t want to attack that, but at the same time, (bitter cackle) one thing het women are really good at understanding is the inevitability of being erased from political movements.

        Men and their need to dominate are the problem, but it’s even bigger than that. I believe sexism and misogyny are the problem, that’s what homophobia springs from. That’s what every single other oppression springs from. We can go out and advocate for gay men, for minorities, for the planet, for dozens of valid causes, but unless people come together and get rid of the imbalance, the misogyny, the patriarchy, none of these other problems are going to get solved. You can’t create a better world when the talents and needs of half the human race are always being suppressed. It’s like trying to put the cart before the horse.

      • DaveSquirrel Says:

        Ah yes, but women are supposed to put their needs last, dontchaknow?

        Because there is always some other *more worthy* group that deserves our efforts. “We’ll get to the woman thing later, promise!” (case study: Egypt women, 2011)

        So until 51% of the population wake up to the fact that putting their lot in with men – political movements, alphabets, whathaveyou, nothin’ ain’t gunna change.

  31. Bev Jo Says:

    I don’t know where the LGBTQetc. came from, but I have never been part of it. I still see a mostly Lesbian community with very few men, even at open events, so all I can think is that it is a con and marketing ploy, like the “National Center for Lesbian Rights.” Fancy high-paying jobs in organizations that help men much more than women.

    It’s a real shame that so many Lesbians believe there is an LGTBQetc. community. I don’t see it anywhere. I think men felt compelled to tack on the “L” because it was so obvious we were not part of what they were doing, and, as a gay man, told me recently, they did not want us around and would never have been there for us if Lesbians were dying in large numbers.

    I think we just have to keep telling whoever we can that we are being lied to and to have the sense to not accept the lies. “Trans” is a lie. “Transwomen” are just men. There is no “LGBTQetc.” movement. They all are trying to appropriate our identity.

    The Lesbians who are afraid to participate in “homophobia” or “transphobia” by openly objecting to us as females being caricatured by men, should think about what a joke that “LGBTQetc.” is to most women and het men. Do they really want to be idenified with drag queens, porn, sado-masochism, etc.?

    I didn’t want to make a focus here be about Lesbians being oppressed by het women and I do love my friends and allies, but I can’t ignore how much I do get harassed at “Lesbian” events because I’m not het and chose to never be het. It does happen a lot, and I’ve hope that by talking about it, we would get more support.

    I don’t want there to be any excuses for women (not just Lesbians) to say that they feel treated so badly for not being “feminine” enough that they have to “transition” to FTM. I never wanted to be male, so I will never understand why identifying enough with our oppressors to want to become one has become so popular. (I still say it’s about wanting male privilege.) But we, as women and as Lesbians, do need to not make any female feel like a freak because she refuses to conform to male rules about femininity and being het. Let’s have real solidarity and return to where it looked like all women were wanting to join us. And yes, while trying to treat each other as equally as possible, let’s continue fighting against the mindfuck (and as a friend just said to me, she considers the trannie intrusion into our minds and space as a “mind-rape”).

    Let’s do what Gallus asks, and, for those who want to continue discussion differences between het women and Lesbians, we can meet after the article at my blog about male violence.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Thanks Bev. It would be really great if we could lead the discussion back to building alliances against trans with het women and all women across differences. How to foster alliances rather than wasting time underlining or even creating more division.


    • I think there are a lot of other letters in the “alphabet soup” that would say they do not feel the other members care for them. Bisexuals often say they feel rejected by lesbians and gay men and sometimes by heterosexuals. Transfolks consistently state they are more oppressed than anyone else in the alphabet soup. And I don’t know of any actual intersex folks that participate in LGBTQI type events.

      Perhaps because you are a crone, you have been fortunate enough to miss out on these “alphabet soup” events, but for women in their twenties, there’s nothing lesbian only.

      • GallusMag Says:

        As I understand it, that is why Bev is proposing that Lesbians succeed from the LGBT and align ourselves with all women- even the homophobic lesbian-hating ones.

  32. jane hathaway Says:

    Just remembered something I wanted to answer to FabLibber: I liked your comment a lot. However, when you say “However, certain quarters of the lesbian community need to stop looking down their noses at het women,” I have to take exception! Het women have more power and privilege than lesbians, and oppression only works doing down the power path. It’s hets who “look down” at lesbians, not the other way around. That’s as silly as the “reverse racism” claims we sometimes hear. Now I as a lesbian don’t feel attracted to het women, that’s my choice. But it’s not oppressing them.

  33. jane hathaway Says:

    I wanted to add a little context … that I am ex-het, came out in my 40s. Now I’m in my late 50s. I grew up in the far religious right. My mother was–still is–a contributor to Phyllis Schlafly. It took me a long time to think for myself! I said I’m not attracted to straight women anymore, and that’s true. I learned not to be–the hard way, repeatedly. I do have 2 close het female friends who I love dearly, though. My closes friends are lesbians. I feel safest with lesbians.

    • Chonky Says:

      Hello Jane,

      Ditto that mom-phyllis nightmare. Mine invited phyllis over to the house for Bridge. Gag-o-rama.

  34. GallusMag Says:

    All comments stating that women should not be aligned will be deleted. If you don’t think women should be allied against genderism, you are on the wrong blog.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Maybe I was wrong to say this. If women think such an alliance is ill-conceived they have a right to say so.

      • KatieS Says:

        I think that this alliance is a brilliant idea! I feel much more allied with all women than I do with any LGBTQwerty. Logically, any gain that includes ALL women is also a gain for lesbians.

        At the same time, it is also important to understand the dynamics between het women and lesbians, including a better understanding of butch lesbians in the lesbian community. That may be another discussion, in order to stay on track here, but ultimately it is part of the discussion.

        What I do feel clearly is that lesbians need to beware of putting our energy into causes that do not benefit us. Any causes that benefit ALL women definitely benefit us. I also see that lesbian causes do benefit all women, but we cannot ignore the fact that the majority of women don’t see this. We should never lose sight of our own priorities as lesbians.

  35. KatieS Says:

    There’s something important that I’m trying to grasp here. I do agree that we need a coalition of anyone who will join to fight the women-only spaces fight, including male parents of girls.

    Beyond that coalition, there’s something that is not well understood, at least by me. I do feel an affinity with all women. I think of Dworkin’s straightforward but sympathetic portrait of right-wing women. Some of those right-wing women are the mothers of radical feminists and of lesbians. Lesbians/feminists saw those mothers suffer in various ways from misogyny. While I’m not going to join their causes, I think there are causes we can together join. In some ways, this is what I liken to politics (old-style, not today). People formed coalitions around issues, they said “You are welcome to join my issues.” I may or may not support yours.

    Perhaps part of the trouble here are the ways in which women are taught loyalty. In the LGB movement women who are lesbians were loyal to gay males, for instance. But we did not look at their loyalty to us quickly enough. Our loyalty was taken for granted. Soon trans were invited in. What was taken for granted was already in place, our loyalty.

    I’m wondering about being a lesbian feminist separatist. What does that mean today? It still means that I will put forward causes that I consider important, that impact all women and lesbians. Does it also mean that anyone who wants to support those causes is very welcome to do so?

    I do think that there is a sisterhood to be recognized. But I do not think it is going to be like the sisterhood back in the 70’s, of which I was a part. The question I have about that sisterhood is not only what happened to that, but more important, what do we need to do next to build sisterhood today? It will look different. What do we need to do in the world today? One key issue that has been brought to our attention is the trans erosion of our rights, even our right to have our own restrooms. I really love the blogs of the varied women in the radfem movement.

    Another key strategy is to begin to point out when we think something is a women’s issue first. I think that there are sensible women out there who will respond to that. I’m kind of brainstorming here, just asking questions because I think we need to ask them to make something new happen.

    I do think that understanding the other “isms” that divide women is ultimately important to building strength. There is a time for addressing heterosexism, racism, classism, ageism, etc. in our emerging sisterhood. Did we allow these issues to become divisive rather than having them bond us?

    Not all women are ready to look at these things. I think that some need to understand how misogyny has affected them first. Perhaps, in the past, was some women’s denial of misogyny and how it has affected them that made addressing these other issues divisive instead of uniting us.

  36. Tru Says:

    Hi! Can I ask where you sourced the “80% don’t have surgery” figure from?

  37. Mary Sunshine Says:

    Katy,

    Another key strategy is to begin to point out when we think something is a women’s issue first.

    Yes. The trannies-in-the-women’s-washroom thing is so obviously a case of being a women’s issue first.

    I’ll try to cheer up a bit.😛 An ex-married mother of a daughter myself – but a lezsep for so long that I’ve grown wary of trying to ally with het women around anything that is a women’s issue first if that issue has the slightest separatist aspect to it, like keeping males out of the women’s washroom. Non-sep females have done a real good job of protecting their males from me.

    Yes, I see the tranny / washroom thing as a women’s issue first – and if non-seps can ally with me and I with them on this one issue I would very much like to do so. For information purposes only, and not wanting to be emotionally inflammatory: any putdowns about being a manhater are a dealbreaker for me. That’s just for *me*. Obviously, anybody else can do what they want to.

    Gallus, thank you for your patience and forbearance with me.

    • KatieS Says:

      ” I’ve grown wary of trying to ally with het women around anything that is a women’s issue first if that issue has the slightest separatist aspect to it, like keeping males out of the women’s washroom. Non-sep females have done a real good job of protecting their males from me.

      I think that this may be true of some liberal women, especially those who have identified as “allies.” That’s another group that is being used/exploited by transjacktivists. I don’t think that this will be true for most other women. The exceptions may be some, but not all, of the women married to cross-dressers.

      I think we may be allowing the trans to frame the discussion. How can we reframe it? One way is by calling attention to the fact that those lobbying for access to our private spaces are persons with obsessions. (See my post below). These folks are being irrational in an obsessive way. If they were rational, would they be issuing frequent death threats to a blog like this one? Maybe we need another blog where all radfems post the threats and hysterical emails that they get from trans.

      • Marilyn Says:

        I like the idea of creating a space to post threatening emails and comments. Show the problem in the full light of day. Does one already exist? If so please share the link.

  38. GallusMag Says:

    All of us should start speaking out to other women, women who maybe are different than us, hetero women, lesbian women, right-wing women, left-wing women, and letting them know that the Genderism movement is replacing legal sex-based protections for women with “sex-role protections”, and that legal sex is being replaced with “sex role stereotypes”. And that women’s sports teams, women’s medical funding, crime statistics relating to women, etc are being eliminated by the “T” in the LGBT. That sex-segregated for safety areas like locker rooms, hospital bed assignments, prisons and jails, bathrooms, are being eliminated by the “T” in the LGBT. It’s especially important for Lesbians to speak out as Lesbians and let women know whenever possible that while we support the rights of Genderists to pursue happiness however they see fit without discrimination or male violence, we DO NOT support the genderist movement’s goal of eliminating sex-based legal protections for females. It’s very important that we do not inadvertently become ambassadors for the Genderist Agenda by allowing our hetero non-feminist contacts assume that we are part of, or that we support the transgender movement to eliminate legal protections for women.

    A study out of Finland yesterday stated that the number of genderists seeking medicalized “sex-role correction” is doubling ANNUALLY. By any measure, the number of transhumanist sex-role body modifications are skyrocketing. We need to push back against the elimination of legal protections for women that has been caught up in this genderist social trend. And the first step is increasing public awareness in what is happening. As someone said above, the Lesbian community has been the canary in the coal mine for the impact the growing genderist trend will have on all women worldwide.

  39. KatieS Says:

    Gallus Mag, I agree. I also think that some lesbians may have had more personal experiences with trans. Why is this? Here’s my take on part of it. Quite simply, these are men with an obsession or a fetish who still want sex with women. In order to do this, they need to label themselves “lesbians.” They may also fetishize lesbians. This leads me to something I’ve thought about, better understanding what we are seeing here.

    There is no single phenomenon called trans. I don’t think it’s exactly a community, but rather a phenomenon of having a vested interest in common around gender issues.

    M2Ts appear have a variety of psychological disorders relating to fetishes, strange body perceptions, multiple personalities, cross dressing, depression, etc. A lot of these things are obsessive in themselves and are also accompanied with a tendency to be obsessive in general. So, although their obsessions show up in dressing as women, they may also show up in other ways, like the trans who has stalked bev jo. Her story is what made me realise that though these types of M2Ts want to dress and act as females, there is also some stalking, obsessive quality for some of them, most likely the ones who seek leadership for their common interests. The M2T who appears to be the most frequent poster online seems quite obsessive. It is remarkable the number of posts one runs across from this individual. What it means is that this type of person will put lots of effort into campaigning for trans rights. Or the various trans who will send hate mail to this website over and over and over and over, well, obsessively😉. The inflexibility of these types of trans is remarkable, too, just like people who are obsessive. They cannot see outside a very narrow focus. They are driven. Narcissism may go along with this, as has been noted by many. The male entitlement is part of it as well, as has been noted. Not a good combination, but I think that this explains some of the energy behind their proselytizing, recruiting, lobbying, politics.

    This is quite different from Lesbians, Gays, or Bisexuals. These folks want a movement to protect themselves, some have seen the need to be social activists, but they also want to do other things, to have real lives, non obsessive lives. I don’t think all M2Ts are obsessive, but it appears to be a trait that goes with some of the M2T “types,” likely a majority. It is even possible that there are some M2Ts who live quietly without fanfare. They pass and really just want to live their lives without attention. My guess is that they don’t want attention called to the bathroom issue or legislation.

    I think the F2T phenomenon is different. Mainly it is to escape misogyny, heterosexism, and lesbophobia. Also, it involves a “fad” for young women who are searching for a way to understand who they are and a social phenomenon kind of like cult recruiting. (I think some young men have this dynamic, the fad/cult, too, but it’s because they don’t fit the male role, not from the no-win misogyny that teen/young women face).

    I have met one F2T who was not interested in any kind of attention and just wanted to live as a couple with a woman. This F2T was not out in any way and was a normal, respectful human being who did not seem obsessed at all. This is why I’m willing to concede that it’s possible that there are males like this, too. Likely more are fetish/obsessive types since males have a much higher incidence of sexual fetish type obsessions.

    I’m going on about this because I do think it helps to have some understanding of what type of people we are up against. Just my take on it.

  40. kesechewan Says:

    The energy behind it KatieS, is mental illness and being pushed by a medical profession in conflict of interest, and as you say just plain male entitlement. They are males and just cannot fathom being denied anything by women. It’s never happened since they were two and one-half. But primarily, I dock the mental illness and the med profession, who do not want to talk these guys out of what makes huge bank for them, especially since their next largest cash roll was women who are now slamming the door in their faces. So I guess we could say it’s male entitlement enabling male entitlement.

  41. Bev Jo Says:

    There was never anything for Lesbian only in the US, that I’m aware of, except for rare Separatist Gatherings. (New Zealand had a lot Lesbian only events.) I do not identify as a “crone.” I am a Dyke. What I’m saying is that I still do not see much Lesbian participation in LGBTQIetc. things. It’s a kind of a lie where those with more privilege speak for us, but I still see Lesbians of all ages mostly with Lesbians. The only Lesbians I know in their twenties are Separatists. If others don’t want to hang out with older Lesbians (my friends range from twenties to seventies) then they might have more problems in this area. But though in this horrifyingly liberal area, we no longer have bookstores, bars, coffee houses, etc. there are constantly events which are open to the public, but mostly Lesbians.

    Mary, I really agree. We’ve experienced some horrific Lesbian-hatred. I realize I trust my het women friends because of their poverty-class and working class warmth and love. We don’t talk feminism — we talk rats! We share meds and pain-killers for our little ones. Survival and support to cry when a beloved rat has died. There’s something about loving someone who most other people hate, whether little hated, misunderstood animals or Lesbians, that connects us.

    Sorry, to go off the topic. What I was suggesting was why not consider allying with any women rather than those revered “good” trannies who I would never trust anyway? I don’t really want to work politically in a deep way with anyone who isn’t a Lesbian because I’ve had enough of being treated like a freak, but certainly will for particular goals. I occasionally will go to one meeting to stop the killing of non-native trees or stop aerial pesticide spraying, and I write letters. But since so few support Lesbians, that is where my main focus always will be. I guess, I’m suggesting to consider women as allies for those who instead are willing to work with men who claim to be women.

    But yes, Mary, we have to right to not be quiet about our politics. Our radical politics is what created a Radical Lesbian Feminist movement. I remember when even het women acknowledged men are destroying the earth, most rape if they can get away with it, etc. and yes, we hate them as a group. It is just that awareness of maleness as the enemy that prevents me for even a moment to think “transitioning” to male is anything but similar to joining the klan or nazis. And my Separatism adds force to my saying that “transwomen” are far more male in the worst possible way than even regular het men. I mean, that is bad.

    And Gallus, you have done such amazing work. I mean, if anyone is confused, just look at your blog! All the tricks and nauseating games — serial killers and rapists getting the government to keep them alive for their “sex change” operation — using their words and videos against them. Women have got to stop feeling compassion for our enemy and see him for who he is. Let’s tap the first reaction of revulsion at these men. I don’t usually feel sorry for het married women, but when I see the documentaries with these self-obsessed drag queens and their poor wives….

    Katie, I agree with a lot of what you say, but think it’s dangerous for us to add to psychoanalizing MTFs because that leads to feeling sorry for them. It’s like doing that for nazis, which could certainly be done also, but I won’t. Even the mentally ill make choices. These men are simply dangerous. They hate us, but want access to us. I won’t speculate that some are unobtrusive. I have NEVER seen that. I’ve seen such a level of exhibitionism that it’s amazing. I mean, I am in a community with an incredible amount of skilled Lesbian and women singer/songwriter/musicians, and then Elliott gets up and bellows off-key, and bangs on his guitar, and calls himself an originator of “women’s music.” It is feeling sorry for him and the rest of them that stops anyone from protesting their presence. How many women/Lesbians do they drive away, who they have stalked and harassed? Certainly he and his supporters have tried very hard to drive me away.

    FTMs are women and a whole other story. I want to have hope for them, but really, they must hate us so much to no longer wnat to be us. In the documentary I saw, the FTM had been a sweet-looking young Fem Lesbian. By the end, she was an ugly, balding, acne-scarred (not to be looksist, but this is from the testosterone — I have never seen a woman with acne who looked like this), selfish person. Her patient Butch lover stood by her side as her savings were used up and they went into bankrupcy because the FTM wanted larger silicon “testicles.” (The MTF surgeon said the FTMs want larger s”testicles” than bio men, while the MTFs want larger breasts than bio women.) She said they were going deeper into debt so she could have yet more surgeries. Oh my god….

    In two days, the national Butch Voices conference starts. They refused all workshops we offered on female-identified Butches, but there are TWO on “Butches” getting pregnant. (These are not Butches.) There is one for “Butch” MTFs! These are not Butches!!! We are not allowed to define who we are as women, as Lesbians, or as Butches.

    At this point, it is a radical, revolutionary action to just keep telling the truth and protesting the imposters.

    • Tru Says:

      Hi Bev, would you be able to give a little more info on these lesbian events in New Zealand and maybe some history behind them? Or point me to a resource that has some info on them?

  42. KatieS Says:

    I think that you are right, bevjo. They will try to use it as a way to play the “pity card” which they already do to the max. And yes, some people will buy it and pity them.

    At the same time, I wanted to make clear that there is a difference between them and lesbians, gays, and bisexuals. This is not about being non-heterosexual. It is about a group with a variety of mental disorders that all relate to being male in some way. Also a vested interest in protecting their disorders, like an alcoholic. At any expense, including the expense of half the population.

    Also, there is not a legitimate community for them (as there is for us) unless you redefine “community” as those who support a delusion (a look at fab libbers “tootsie fest” post shows it clearly). Real communities support their members in multi-dimensional ways, like the Lesbian community, like many ethnic communities. There are even some communities, like AA, that try to help their members recover from mental illness. Recover. But when I see the “tootsie fest” what I see is an anti-AA–something like a bunch of alcoholics who get together to drink. A bunch of rich men who can afford custom-made clothes to indulge their delusions and spend lots of money on a spree. Not a community. Entitled people with delusions. Including their wives who are their enablers, and if rich, also entitled.

    Also, stalkers are understood to be mentally ill. I do not feel sorry for them, but for their victims. Flashers are understood to be mentally ill, but I do not feel sorry for them, either, and have been victimized by them like many other women. I do wish they would all get cured of their disorder so their victims could be safe. It will never happen, of course. Their victims need protection, therefore. The laws need to protect their victims.

    To the extent (and that extent is potentially vast) that trans are trying to take away the rights of all women, all women are their victims. They have been successful in this already to an alarming extent. The ones that self-identify as “lesbians” and invade our communities are harming our communities. We should stop them, call out their oppressive behavior, deny their delusions, not let them into our communities. The women who give them a pass, including lesbians, are enablers. Like all enablers, they hurt themselves and their communities.
    oThey have a lot of energy for this, and it helps to see where it comes from (obsession). It is also a weakness, and it is good to know that, too. Just like psychoanalyzing the Nazis might have been useful to the allies in defeating them.

    At the same time, your comments about not wanting to garner sympathy for them ring true. If there is a danger of that, then this may not be the way to go. If we think we can educate others but not have it used against us successfully, it may be helpful. As I said, I’m exploring ideas here. Something new needs to happen. But we should proceed with caution so we don’t make it easier for them to victimize us.

  43. Bev Jo Says:

    I really agree with so much of what you say, Katie, but the mentally ill designation is dangerous for us. I don’t say that rapists are mentally ill. In patriarchy, they are definitely normal men. The same for stalkers and flashers. It’s all connected. These men who claim our identity and won’t take no for an answer are also “normal men.” They are playing with the role men designate for us as women. But they are not “mentally ill” by my definition.

    I also really disagree about them not having a community. The most dangerous ones have made our community into theirs. I helped create this Lesbian Feminist community where they now have far more support than I do. If any of us object, or even write an article on a blog, we are yelled at in public by Lesbians we don’t even know. I don’t see these men being harassed in any way. If the one who’s been stalking me for decades does something public that is slandering me personally or slandering Radical Lesbian Feminists and I respond in my or our defense, then I get harassing letters and lectures how I should stop bothering him. I have been banned from reading poetry for months because I dared to respond to his very personal public “song” ridiculing me. The organizer of that event is in a Lesbian singing group that does “humorous” songs supporting these men and ridiculing anyone who object. That rare “women only” space has a public policy that “transwomen” are to be respected. These men are far more important in my community than I or any other Lesbian who objects to them is. I’m not even talking about the LGBTQIetc. community — I’m talking about the women’s/Lesbian community. They are also getting printed and published erasing and re-writing our history, while we do not have the resources to counter that.

    So how do we stop them in even the Lesbian community? Elliott alone has caused the end of the Daughters of Bilitis, one of the earlies Lesbian organizations from the fifties. He and others go specifically to women-only events. How do we protest them and stop them and get others to support us? I keep being told to shut up about it and or that I’m being divisive. I would love for someone else to confront them, but no one has the courage to.

    • KatieS Says:

      I also really disagree about them not having a community. The most dangerous ones have made our community into theirs. I helped create this Lesbian Feminist community where they now have far more support than I do. If any of us object, or even write an article on a blog, we are yelled at in public by Lesbians we don’t even know.

      Actually, this is something I was thinking but did not write–They don’t have a legitimate community of their own so they have co-opted the communities of others, particularly lesbian communities. The only community they have of their own is the “Tootsie Fest” that we see. It’s not really a community, but a consumer-type fake.

      I agree 100% that it is very painful to see them co-opt our communities like this. Whenever I have read of your community experience, it feels very painful to me. It is also painful to see that the absence of a larger lesbian community that once was. They are parasites who take over the communities, and they weaken those communities. While looking at the pain of seeing them infiltrate our communities, I would still affirm that these are not theirs. No more than a parasite belongs to the host it invades. It is also painful when I think about starting a women’s group or a lesbian group that might use public facilities. I see them joining and destroying the meaning of women-only space. That’s what they are trying to do with MichFest. Can you imagine someone taking their daughter to MichFest to feel the safety of an all-women space and being flashed by one of them? And that’s a private event.

      I’m not at all interested in insisting that we need to focus on the mental illness part if that hurts our cause. That’s not a key part. The key part is that they are men harming us as all men do. And in new ways that have not happened before.

      Also, I don’t want to detract from the main point of this post, which is forming coalitions around issues. And figuring out how to make those efforts count.


  44. “I like the idea of creating a space to post threatening emails and comments.”

    That’s really a good idea! With this it’s harder for them to play the victim card.

  45. jane hathaway Says:

    I’m guessing that none of us wants to prevent them from forming their own community. But theirs should not be ours–they aren’t us. I don’t want to be in het women’s community, though–I want only Lesbian community. That’s a personal preference. I’m not sure if there *is* such a thing as “women’s community,” which includes heterosexual women & lesbians. Is there?? But whether there is or isn’t, MtTs don’t fit in and can never fit in.

    • yttik Says:

      “….I’m not sure if there *is* such a thing as “women’s community,” which includes heterosexual women & lesbians. Is there??”

      There was at one point, at least here locally, formed around domestic violence and sexual assault programs. I spent something like 20 yrs working closely with lesbians on many issues. We had a real women’s community. Our community was eventually taken over, our domestic violence shelter started hiring men and we were all replaced. They were more interested in public relations and apparently we were all too radical. We had a women’s book store/coffee house, it eventually became a self help center, focused more on youth, especially teen boys. We had two women’s health centers, but they’ve both shut down now.

      I think when we talk about building alliances, it really just means its literal definition, “an agreement between two or more parties, made in order to advance common goals and to secure common interests.” It’s not really about giving up your own community. Like that recent UN letter created an alliance of sorts, they were advocating for women’s rights, not just lesbian rights, but all women’s rights to be safe. An alliance is simply like, “I support that letter, I defend that letter, you speak for me. I’m not going to sit back and watch you be threatened!” Now if we could just get a few thousand more women to do that, that would be real power. (LOL, forgive me, this is not very artfully stated, but hopefully it still makes sense.)

  46. Bev Jo Says:

    yttik, that is such a tragedy about all your work being taken over for and by males. That’s what seems to have happened all over the world. I know of so many stories like that and that’s part of why I was upset with the “rad fem” line seeming to change on behalf of “exceptional” men and then being told we must behave and respect those “transwomen.” It’s so important for our histories to be known because such compromises do not end well.

    Here, the Lyon-Martin clinic, supposedly by and for Lesbians is now bankrupt with a male director, and when a local Lesbian asked for our help to save it, she happily listed all who this clinic helps, and Lesbians came last, after homeless people, “transgender,” etc. I don’t know what was more galling — that it was expected that we, who could not afford to go there anyway or who had had excruciating (as in unnecessarily painful) bad treatment (which happened to a friend of mine) should save them or that we were supposed to be happy that the clinic was known to help everyone but Lesbians.

    You’re right, Katie, about their parasitizing us. What I do not know how to stop is women supporting them. I keep thinking how most Lesbians really do not want to be around them, but then they so much don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings or have them feel left out, but Lesbians are the ones hurt in this. All women are. (I do keep talking about Lesbian community because I’m more outraged at the betrayal there.)

    I was beginning a new friendship that now seems over because this Lesbian was upset at how I and a female impersonator argued after an event she scheduled. I realize now that she was a nervous wreck expecting that I would make trouble as this man in his makeup persisted in sticking right with us. He was so offensive and aggressive that I could not stop myself from arguing back. I would have argued whether he was a woman or not because of what he said, but I am sure that my new friend is more upset at me than him, and more upset at me than if I had been arguing with a woman. In other words, we have less right to argue or object to these men being offensive or oppressive than we would if we were disagreeing with women. We are immediately branded as troublemakers. It does feel hopeless. They have made themselves be the norm and how do we change that?

  47. Jaye Jill Says:

    http://news.yahoo.com/vampire-arrest-sparks-discussion-pop-culture-141318411.html

    I demand that my insurance company pay for my surgery, as I am really a vampire inside!

  48. Katinka S Says:

    Thanks for posting this excellent article by Bev Jo, I agree with every word!
    Katinka S

  49. Bev Jo Says:

    Katinka! Thank you! Well, where would I be without you?

  50. peka Says:

    This article is immensely problematic. I hope that everyone who reads it will also take the time to (thoughtfully and with empathy in their hearts) read about the experiences of trans men and trans women. Cis-gendered women, lesbians, and transfolk have all been traumatized by patriarchy. We are each the living embodiment of trangression within a system that strives to keep us all in rigidly-defined places. Everyone living as a member of one of the groups mentioned above lives in fear for his/her/etc.’s emotional and physical safety. Trans women and trans men are not a threat to feminism or lesbianism. Remember that when you first knew you were a lesbian, you KNEW it with such apodictic certainty that nothing anyone could have said could have swayed you from this inner “knowing.” Some may have asked you to “prove it” or “convince” them–they may have doubted the truth of it or the depths it ran. When it comes to something like that, your identity, there’s no way to prove it to others; it’s just what you know. That’s exactly what it is like to be trans. We are more alike than we are different. We all want to live our lives as ourselves, and to have that life be free of abuse or assault. Let’s keep the dialogue going.

    • GallusMag Says:

      What dialogue? You’re just another guy trolling feminist blogs and Mansplaining Lesbianism to women. You didn’t address a single point raised in the post you are commenting on.
      BTW sexual orientation isn’t an “identity”. And you appear to have never met any Lesbians. Didn’t stop you from ‘splaining them to themselves though did it? You’re just a typical guy. Typical MRA troll.
      There’s no such thing as a cisgendered woman. If you had the slightest interest in gender, or women, you would know that. Next time try reading with thoughtfulness and empathy for women in your heart.

  51. peka Says:

    i have a vagina. and you just called me a troll. community?

  52. peka2 Says:

    i have a vagina. and you just called me a troll. community?

  53. peka2 Says:

    and I have a PhD in Applied Linguistics and Gender. Good luck with your “blog.”

  54. peka2 Says:

    A Cis-gendered woman (or man) is a person who is born with a gender (which is, as we know, an identity–that is, it is of “the mind”) that matches up with that person’s biological sex.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Is that what they teach at uni these days? That sex roles are inborn?

      • peka2 Says:

        Gender and sex are of a different order. I honestly don’t know what you mean by “sex role.” Is it maybe what I would mean by “gender role”? The whole idea behind the feminist movement is that women can be whoever they want to be–that their biological sex shouldn’t determine or prescribe their gender role or the way they are valued in society.

      • GallusMag Says:

        You don’t know what I mean by “sex role”? Gender= Sex Role. Do you disagree?

  55. GallusMag Says:

    P.S. I haven’t banned you. No need to start creating secondary trolling nics.😉

  56. peka2 Says:

    Yeah, and I’m not trying to be an asshole or anything, I promise. I think we have to talk about these things. A lot of people are being hurt; some are losing their lives to violence or to their own hand. This is about our LIVES. This is SERIOUS. These are life or death issues. I think we need to accept the responsibility to discuss these topics keeping in mind the gravity of the outcome. That’s all I ask.
    And I’ve been assaulted, too. I’ve been silenced. I’m traumatized. I’m hurt. But what’s going on in our queer community scares me more than anything out there in the hetero world. We are dehumanizing one another with caricature and cruelty. We are shunning, stigmatizing, letting our trauma define our lives. And we are, in the process, losing a bit of our humanity.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Yes, I’m deeply concerned with women’s lives. Women ARE being killed, every minute of every day. I’m glad you are able to accept the responsibility of taking women’s lives seriously.

  57. peka2 Says:

    I work with incarcerated women. I’m not some out-of-touch academic. Please, let’s try to be civil.

  58. peka2 Says:

    Anyway, through my work with incarcerated women and their families on the outside, I have been in close contact with the foster care system. If you saw what some of these foster “parents” do to their trans kids, I think you might feel differently. Right now, there’s a scared 16-year-old trans kid lying alone in a hospital bed with her mouth wired shut because she told her foster mother that she felt like a girl inside and couldn’t change the feeling. That’s what’s going on in this world. And it’s my job to protect her from blogs like this one? Does that feel right to you?

  59. peka2 Says:

    just delete all my comments. they’re clearly just a waste of space on your blog. don’t worry. i won’t be back. this is your space, and i respect that. i am truly ashamed to have spent this much time in a space advocating hate and valuing only the lives of some. delete it all. i need a 5-hour shower after crawling into this hateful shit with you.

  60. Bev Jo Says:

    Wow, thanks for saying it all so clearly, Gallus. All the little “gives” from Peka, showing him to be a man so clearly. Typical female impersonator talk. And Lesbians with no power being blamed for what the patriarchal power structure is doing to children and to everyone.

    Trying to defend the last tiny bit of female-only space isn’t “hate.” Attacking it and us IS hate. Trying to steal Lesbian and female identity IS hate. Using patriarchal credentials, real or not, is the classic male-minded game.

    Yes, for once, it’s about our lives, not men’s lives, not men pretending to be women’s lives, but real, actual females’ lives. But of course that is nothing to men, and particularly men claiming to be women.

    No, we all have not “all” been traumatized by patriarchy. Men masquerading as women and trying to destroy our culture and community is the worst patriarchal trick yet. These men absolutely reek of male privilege, no matter how much like drag queens they appear. This one forgets that we know it’s a lie about feeling different while growing up. We’ve seen and heard them tell their stories in their own words. And I still have the stalker harassing me who started when I was 17. He didn’t have a clue about being a woman or a Lesbian until he wanted access to us. These are the worst kind of stalkers because they fool real women into believing them.

    • GallusMag Says:

      I know, right??? How DARE women centralize females on a feminist blog!!! It’s Like MURDERRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      How DARE women take the piss out of the system of sex HIERARCHY called GENDER!!!! How DARE we critique the MECHANISM of our OPPRESSION that gets us RAPED and KILLED!!!!!!! What UPPITY FUCKING UNCARING WOMEN we are!!!! WHAT ABOUT THE MENZZZZZ????!!!!!!????!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Why aren’t you TAKING CARE OF THE MENZZZZ????!!!!!!!!!
      It’s LIKE MURRRDDDEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      MANHATERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Jesus, commenters like peka/peka2 are so fucking tedious. They have a few drinkies and go looking for a blog to vent their spleen on- and they’re quite surprised that THE BITCHES TALK BACK!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, the HUMANITY!!!!!!!!
      LOLOLOLOLOLOL

  61. Bev Jo Says:

    Don’t you just love that no matter how they rape, torment, pester, and bore us to death, that they will NEVER have what they really want? These men pretending to be Lesbians will NEVER experience love or sex with a Lesbian, because any woman who demeans herself by being with them (and I don’t know of any who’ve done that, actually), is, by definition not a Lesbian. So, no matter the con or trick, bullying or harassing, they will never have that experience. They can take everything else from us, but not that.

  62. Sharon Says:

    To poor misunderstood pika:

    I don’t have anything against intersex people, genderqueer, or MTF transsexuals as long as they stay OUT of lesbian space, or space that is collectively being used as a source of mutual support and shared interests by women. I try to respect all humans as long as they leave me alone. Unlike queer theory that defines lesbians out of existence because the very idea of gender is foreign to queer theory, I acknowledge that male transsexuals exist. This does not mean, however, that I want MTF transsexuals in my personal space. Some people that are born intersex have genetic anomalies, and these individuals aren’t responsible for the way that they were born. Intersex is an actual congenital medical condition, and I certainly can’t fault people for the way they were born. I don’t hate these people as long as they clearly understand that they must not have access to certain places in which their presence makes lesbians feel uncomfortable.

    In this blog, or any blog, I don’t want to give the impression that it’s fashionable or cool to trash people for simply existing. If I see someone crossing the street, and he or she leaves me alone and stays out of my personal space, then I will leave them alone. Despite my somewhat pacifist outlook, I have never considered MTF transsexuals female. Surgery can’t change genetics. At least, men haven’t gone that far in mutilating women’s bodies to the point of altering their genes. Transmen certainly are not lesbian. When a “Women’s Group” in Sacramento decided to include all self-identified women (MTF transsexuals), I walked out in protest at the very first meeting. I never went back to this group. It’s the arrogant belief that MTF transsexuals and gender queers have that enrages me. I can almost sense or feel this arrogant feeling of entitlement. Similar to men, they naturally feel that they must have access to any female space they so desire. In my old age, I don’t want to start hating people. After a six foot tall MTF transsexual walked through the door to this “Women’s Group”, I felt anger. Now, this might sound strange, I really didn’t start to hate MTF transsexuals and gender queer folk until a MTF transsexual showed up at a “Women’s Group”. Cyberspace is constantly crawling with all sorts of strange people. I don’t want MTF transsexuals or anyone to think that I hate them just because they exist. If MTFs, men, and all gendertrender folks don’t want to be hated, then stay OUT of lesbian and women only space. I have heard numerous instances where MTF transsexuals repeatedly ignore lesbians when asked to leave. How is a 5’4″ 140 lb. lesbian supposed to stand up to a six foot MTF transsexual? Because lesbians are women, we have been raped and assaulted by men. Lesbians have been harassed by transgendered males. Then, they act as if they are the victims when asked to leave.

    As to peka who feels so dehumanized and oppressed, I have the following statements. First, women have enough mind numbing oppression and violence to deal with. By women, I mean genetic females who make up half the population on earth. Before transmen whine about the cruelty they endure, try experiencing centuries of rape, torture, mutilation, genital mutilation, work place harassment, and all the various forms of systemic misogyny that women have experienced since the beginning of time. So, perhaps women need to focus our energy on ourselves instead of poor transmen and genderqueer folk.

    Second, I find it very offensive to be called a Cis-gendered woman. I’m a female not cis-gendered. What kind of genderqueer, silly nonsense is cis-gendered? In my opinion, it’s the epitome of misogyny to not be able to recognize the existence of women. Queer theory evolved in thd 1980s alongside neoliberalism and its predatory capitalism. All that is queer became all the rage when feminism waned. In my opinion, queer theory was never a threat to neoliberalism (Ronald Reagan, Thatcher, globalization, etc) the way feminism represented a threat. Foucault, the darling of queer theorists, was a gay man who was especially fond of BDSM, and conviently ignored women in his work. Overall, queer, and all that is queer, is inadequate to fully address the unique history of women, examine real issues of dominance and power, or even acknowledge institutional sexism. After all, gender does not exist. Being female is an illusion. There is simply no way in hell that queer theory is capable of seeing a lesbian soul.

    I’m a woman, a lesbian, and I’m not queer. Queer isn’t spoken here. I’ve never considered myself a hateful person. If you don’t want me to start hating you, then stay out of my personal space.

    • Thursday's Child Says:

      YES to everything you’ve said, Sharon. This gives voice to my personal feelings far better than I am able to do myself. Perfect, thank you!

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Two glaring tells: calling natural-born women “cis” anything and shying away from acknowledging, accepting and respecting that the term Lesbian is the exclusive domain of natural-born women who are sexually, emotionally and spiritually in love with other natural-born women.

      Any “trans”-whacktivist who indulges in that crap loses me upon their first “trans”-gression.

  63. cherryblossomlife Says:

    “The whole idea behind the feminist movement is that women can be whoever they want to be”

    No Peka, the whole idea behind the feminist movement is to stop men from raping, mutilaitng, harming and killing women with their wars and their unecessary medical interventions, and then to use any leftover energy we have to wrest power away from them before they achieve their goal of polluting the earth.

    God, if only feminism was about “being who we want to be”.
    If only.

  64. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you, Sharon! You described that so well —

    “In my opinion, it’s the epitome of misogyny to not be able to recognize the existence of women. Queer theory evolved in thd 1980s alongside neoliberalism and its predatory capitalism.”

    Yes, it’s all about erasing us from existence, which is a right wing politics and so is very connected to capitalism. I mean, the entire “sex change” business is a huge medical field now. Besides surgeons, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, etc. making money, there are now quite a few television series/documentaries.

    I don’t know if you’ve seen Nicky’s comments here, but Nicky is an intersex activist who is our good ally in revealing how M2Ts are not intersex, but many do appropriate intersex identity as they appropriate ours. They lie!

    My only disagreement is that I do object to the entire idea of M2Ts because they are not real. I object when white men pretend to be racially oppressed also. It’s just wrong. Even if they would stay completely away from our communities, which they never do — they go particularly to the scarce women-only events, making them no longer women-only — they are now representing us in the world. Statistics on women being violent are going up because they are not women. Also they are increasing statistics on “Lesbian domestic abuse.” And then the charming man who is presented only as woman in the National Geographic show who pretends he is paraplegic is another “Lesbian” pretender. (Gallus did a brilliant post about that.) They also use rare Lesbian resources, like from the Lyon-Martin clinic and National Center for Lesbian Rights. Men pretending to be women just hate us so much. With the “cis” crap and the death and rape and mutilation threats it’s clear they just want real Lesbians and women gone.

    I really agree, Thursday’s Child, Rose, and cherry!

  65. Darcie Says:

    A PHD in gender and linguistics, ya, some men need a double PHD to talk themselves into believing they’ve become women just because they pumped silicone into their chests and started popping Premarin like it’s candy. And let’s not forget the mascara.

    Crack, that’s nothing, meth, a fad, napalm, pure child’s play. What’s caused more death, cruelty, destruction and mayhem than any other substance on the planet? Testosterone. How much testosterone has Peka had flowing through his bloodstream in his lifetime? Oh, but he’s a woman now, no side effects of testosterone, no, not possible.

  66. Darcie Says:

    We’ve spread ourselves so thin working for all these other causes at the expense of our own. If most of the world’s problems are an outgrowth of the destructive force of testosterone, as I firmly believe, counteracting that force directly is the solution to those problems. All the more reason to dedicate our energy to the protection of women. No more disproportionate influence of testosterone. More estrogen. More progesterone. Au natural, of course.


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