F2T and the Lesbian Community

March 8, 2012

22 Responses to “F2T and the Lesbian Community”

  1. SheilaG Says:

    Never thought I’d see the day that I’d agree with Camille Paglia!! Yeah, I don’t hear a lot of praise of butches anywhere out there…. seems disingenious to me.

  2. GallusMag Says:

    I’m really into Lesbian only spaces. That’s where the future is at for me. There is absolutely no reason for females who worship the male, and who promote sexist genderism, to be affiliated with the lesbian community any longer. Time to push the baby birds from the nest!

  3. GallusMag Says:

    LESBIANS = WOMEN BORN WOMEN

    Say it loud and say it proud !

  4. Herpityderpiderp Says:

    Does this mean that lesbian women are appropriating the identity of transgender people?

  5. bugbrennan Says:

    “There’s nothing wrong with being a butch woman.”

    Um, thanks Buck.

  6. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Don’t EVEN get me started! I’ve seen enough damage in the warzone, which is why I don’t go into certain communities anymore, cuz it is simply too painful for me to see yet another Butch on ‘T’ thinking they’re ‘transgender’ or a ‘transman’, but most want to be inbetweener…have the breast surgery, take the hormones, but NEVER the bottom surgery, which doesn’t work anyway, have the privilege on the outside, and some be effeminate and ‘gay’ while others continue their privilege over other bio female Dykes/Lesbians/Butches or Femmes…..

    At least Pat Califia, once transitioned, stayed OUT of the Lesbian/LeatherDyke community, but the one who mentioned being a ‘transman’ and staying IN the Lesbian community, that is far more problematic, and more of the typical way these ‘transmen’ operate. Most still hang onto our coattails and hang out in Dyke and women’s spaces(for dates of course and sex, and attention), while INSISTING they are ‘male’ want to be called by male pronouns with male names, ect. ect. ect.

    They want their cake and to eat it too…..so to speak. And there are always the transapologist Lesbians and queer girls who will accomodate them……and shame us for setting boundaries!

    -FeistyAmazon

    • fmnst Says:

      LOL transpologist.

      What’s up with there being a woman who claims she is a man acting as director of the Lesbian Rights Project? That one really pisses me off. If you don’t want to be female, get out of anything having to do with lesbians, especially at that level. What a harmful and hypocritical role for lesbians, especially young ones.

      I cannot understand wanting to embrace maleness. It’s about embracing patriarchy, the enemy of women and lesbians.

      I haven’t been to a pride or women’s bar, etc., in over a decade, so I haven’t seen all this. Makes me so sad and sickened. Feeling of revulsion. And pissed. How brainless, spineless, and lemming-like can all these women be, buying into this patriarchal crap.

  7. Parker Wolf Says:

    Fucking Buck Angel, man – he said it.

    You know, when I was in my early 20s and just coming out, I almost transitioned – I figured since everyone thought I was a man anyway, I might as well become one.

    I cant express how fucking happy I am that I never stepped over that ledge because that is *not* who I am, who I was, or who I will ever be.

    I am a Butch Woman. Period.

    This conversation needs to be had – often and in public. Buck had it right – what’s going to happen to all of these young butches coming out? They are all going to think they are supposed to, expected to, have to transition instead of being butch women.

    They need us, this community needs us, society needs us.

  8. Bev Jo Says:

    Oh Gallus, you are so right! Lesbian-only. Except for gatherings and events, as far as I know, we never really had that in the US, like they did in Aotearoa. It really makes such a difference for Lesbians to identify as Lesbians and be with Lesbians. It pushes anyone who wants to join to identify and to think about what it means. And just as women-only events have an amazing special feeling, Lesbian-only is ever more magical. It’s about pride in ourselves.

    I hear too many in my community say they hate to use the word “Lesbian.” It was such a rare event a couple of years ago when there was a meeting for Fabled Asp, the disabled Lesbian history project (to record the stories of the disabled Lesbian activist movement while some were still alive) and a very privileged-looking young woman came to the meeting and just laughed at Laura Rifkin, saying, “You don’t REALLY mean Lesbian, do you? You aren’t excluding bisexual women, are you?” Laura looked her in the eye and said, “Yes, we mean Lesbian. Lesbian only.” (I wish I could remember the rest.) The arrogant woman could not believe it. So few help Lesbians, but Lesbians are expected to work for everyone else and dilute our politics and culture. How terrible that a non-Lesbian with more privilege than we have as Lesbians might feel left out.

    And of course they also meant female-born.
    Yes, Gallus! “LESBIANS = WOMEN BORN WOMEN
    Say it loud and say it proud !”

    And Pat Califia! Oh my god! I remember when she was the trendy little bleached blond with a crew cut who was so worshipped in Samois in 1979 as the reigning sadist and posing as Butch. (She was not Butch!) She didn’t stay out of our community after “transitioning,” but continued as the Lesbian advice columnist for “Girlfriend” magazine. And don’t all women really crave becoming bald like that?

    So what’s with the F2Ts so often imitating the gay male stereotypical lisp? Again, the assumption is that F2Ts are Butch. But most before photos, like in Loren Cameron’s “Body Alchemy,” show very feminine women. And the put-on lisp and exaggerated gay male gestures reveals how gay-identified, rather than Lesbian-identified, these women are. How many were hanger-ons with gay and bisexual and trannie men rather than ever being in a Lesbian community?

    Yes, the Lesbian community and world needs Butches. For so many reasons. And we are FEMALE — not male, not masculine. I believe we are closer to what all females would be without patriarchy and male rules of femininity. “Femininity” is what is masculine since it’s a male invention, which is why female impersonators/trannies are so drawn to it. Any woman who refuses to follow those male rules gets extreme punishment.

  9. KittyBarber Says:

    Let me see. Did I hear this correctly? The only thing that made her a Lesbian was that she was “female-bodied” and was sexually attracted to women.

    I admit that there is more to it than that for me, but that seems to be the definition of Lesbian for most of the world.

    Misogyny is so embedded in our culture(s), it doesn’t shock me that young Lesbians are being infected with it as well. I am shocked at the refusal to fight back, at how easily they are being co-opted.

    At the risk of blaming the victim, I often think that this epidemic of tranz* is a result of cowardice.

    And who do they think they are fooling?

    • fmnst Says:

      I agree, Kitty. Cowardice, brainlessness, spinelessness, ignorance of their herstory, worshipping maleness and male politics and patriarchy….I hate to say it, but maybe we’re better off, thinning the herd.

      But no,that’s not it. Despite my disgust at the brainlessness and lack of critical thinking, these are women who are being brainwashed, and have been, as we all have to some degree, since birth, to hate ourselves, to hate femaleness (even those of us who love our femaleness the most.) Just so, so sad. Seeing this, it’s easier to be ticked off than compassionate.

  10. BadDyke Says:

    ““Femininity” is what is masculine since it’s a male invention, which is why female impersonators/trannies are so drawn to it. Any woman who refuses to follow those male rules gets extreme punishment.”

    Yes, yes and yes again!

    I agree with you about butch dykes — not tied emotionally to men, and (trying to) get away from the male rules as to what women should be like.

    Better do ‘feminine’, better do ‘gay male’, or ‘male’, or S&M, but anything other than say — I’m not doing ANY of that male-created nonsense.

  11. Elin Says:

    Lucas Silveira, the musician, looked like such a nice butch woman to me, and then she exposed herself as a so-called trans..😥
    (Yet, I guess 99% of people would estimate her to be a lesbian.)

    I find it annoying how they always plays the “I am victimized for my individuality” role, were lesbians and any non-trans are supposedly the aggressors depleted of any individuality.

    To them, apparently trans ppl are all individuals – while lesbians apparently are totally not individuals. No, lesbians are one amorphous group, a party which blindly follows strictly lesbian-approved predefined rules made by some lesbian deity. In contrast, trans ppl are NOT group-influenced by any way, no, they have an unique identity that needs to be catered for. Id est, lesbians are not really humans while trans ppl are.

    Also, as for the scene at 4:04. It was the girlfriends “internal dialog”, while that of Lucas was totally uniquely different. SURE! Because our views are not shaped by any shared cultural value system of which we have been exposed to all of our lifetime or something…

    Geez you don’t have to be a radfem to see how totally insane this worldview is. I am not in any way surprised it started in the hyperindividualistic consumerist form-over-fucntion and appearance-over-substance USA.


  12. so sad. At 3:39 there’s a woman with two vivid red mastectomy scars in the crowd and she’s written “No regrets” on her chest.
    Because if a human being wants to go topless on a hot summer’s day, they can only do so if they’re male, or a woman with a double mastectomy,

    • fmnst Says:

      Agreed, Cherryblossomlife.

      That tattoo comes across as if she’s trying to convince *herself* she doesn’t regret it, that she doth protest a wee bit too much.

      How painful.

  13. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Well, even worse was one who had ‘Butch’ written on her back in lipstick, and my partner and I thought, “How bold, who is this woman who dares to go shirtless at Gay Pride?” So we followed her around for a short while, and when we turned around we were SICKENED because she had her breasts removed, and yet she was still claiming our title “Butch” while shirtless in a mixed environment, and knew she could get away with it…….I feel the same about someone writing ‘no regrets’ on their chest, but you know what? Something tells me she HAS regrets, cuz if she didn’t she wouldn’t have to be so narcissitic and exhibitionist about it(like so many of the young tranny FTM’s are with their youtube videos and their “so here I am in month one….and this is what I look like, here I am in month 2 on ‘T’, here I am with my chest surgery in month 4, and here is what I look like in month 5 on ‘T’, ect. ect.”).

    IF she TRULY had ‘no regrets’ she would have the self confidence to not have to ‘brag about it’ or PROVE she had ‘no regrets’ with a label on her chest. I tell you, I bet she does….it’s one of those patriarchal weird reversal things…….and that typical FTM type narcissism.
    -FeistyAmazon

  14. FeistyAmazon Says:

    I mean, when she turned around…..and we saw that she had her breasts removed….

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Well, they’re going to have to pry my nipple sensations out of my cold, dead hands!!!

      No regrets my hind foot!

  15. Garoquel Says:

    You Lesbians are really out there in space, without a freaking star-map, I read all this comments for a good laugh because it is really funny how you berate each other and hate each other and blame men for all your problems. Not only that, you hate regular women and “Bisexual” women.

    It is truly amazing to see how you spew all your militant garbage and then at the same time segregate yourselves in little subgroups and categories and then blast each other or shooting yourselves in the foot in the process, because not everyone is with the program.

    What you ladies need to do is live your lives, enjoy what little time you have in this world, not care what other people think, why do you have to be so “in your face” all the time. and stop this “Butch” nonsense if you don’t want to look presentable as a woman and look frumpy all the time that’s fine but don’t make an excuse about it by making a word up. If you ladies did not know Butch is a man’s name period.

    Gus Roque

  16. KittyBarber Says:

    Dear Gus;

    Go fuck yourself.

  17. KittyBarber Says:

    Here is a link to a photo of the lovely Joelle Ruby Ryan, a lecturer in “women’s studies” at the University of New Hampshire. A real peach of a man.
    http://www.unh.edu/inclusive/images/joelle-ruby-ryan-05
    Thought you might like this, G.M. (smiley face here.)


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