Sex Segregation and Hypocrisy in the Transgender Community

May 25, 2012

The international Transgender Activist community, along with allied “Men’s Rights” Advocates has exploded with outrage at the announcement of a female-only feminism conference scheduled for this summer in the UK. Male transgender Cambridge City  Councillor Sarah Brown went so far as to suggest that ALL female-only political organizing meetings in the UK may be rendered ILLEGAL.

University of New Hampshire representative Joelle Ruby Ryan decried female-only gatherings as “hateful” to males, claiming that there is no shared human experience of being female. He goes so far as to claim that the very WORD “female” is offensive to males.

Female Gatherings = Male “Hatred”

No shared experience for females

The very word “female” is offensive to Ryan

Trans Activist (and Warren Beatty’s heterosexual daughter) Stephen Ira, who has previously posted males making gun shooting gestures at lesbians and feminists, expressed plans to harass a similar female-only conference scheduled for this summer in Portland.

Stephen Ira (Warren Beaty’s heterosexual daughter) plans to harass lesbians and feminists

Guardian writer male transgender Roz Kaveney published a concern-troll article: expressing “concern” that feminists who centralize females in their activism may be an anti-male “cult”.

In the last week dozens of articles have been written and hundreds if not thousands of comments published from members of the transgender community protesting the rights of females to meet and organize politically around female experiences and concerns.

But the truth is that many many transgender community events are segregated by sex. Let’s have a look at some of the scheduled events at next week’s Philadelphia Trans Health Conference :

Ryan, presenter at event with transwoman exclusionary feminism workshop

Why there’s even a feminism conference at the trans event that is open to FEMALES only! What makes the females at  female-only gatherings at a TRANS conference posess a “shared experience” but not OTHER female gatherings? Are Joelle Ruby Ryan and others going to protest and boycott this event as “hateful” and “illegal”? Nooo, Ryan is a workshop presenter at the sex-segregated event. Will Roz Kaveney concern-troll and protest the sex-segregated event? Will Stephen Ira suggest “fucking it up” with a “riot”?

FEMALE ONLY and MALE ONLY events at next week’s trans conference:

More than bodies healing: peer support during and after phalloplasty

FEMALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  guys who have begun or finished their phalloplasty

Workshop Topic: 

Surgery

Loving Ourselves: Healing Strategies for Trans Women

MALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  trans women/female

Workshop Topic: 

Identity-specific

Mental Health

Recovery/Substance Abuse

Social Change/Activism

the politics of passing while black: when little black girls grow up to be black men

FEMALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  transmen of color(though specifically geared toward african american trans men

Workshop Topic: 

Gender Presentation

Identity-specific

Institutions (prisons, shelters, treatment centers, hospitals, education)

Social Change/Activism

Telling Our Stories

Transguys Are Sex Workers Too!: A guided discussion for FTM/transmales in or considering sex work.

FEMALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Current and former FTM/transmasculine/transmale/male-centered sex workers, FTM/transmasculine/transmale/male-centered individuals considering sex work, individuals representing health/leagal/social services that interact with sex workers.

Workshop Topic: 

Sex Work

Trans Women and Queer Femme Identity

MALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Trans women and other CAMAB people

Workshop Topic: 

Gender Presentation

Identity-specific

Baby Boomers and Gen-X’ers: Exploring Aging Issues in Trans Male Communities.

FEMALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Trans men only

Workshop Topic: 

Aging

Sexuality

Telling Our Stories


What’s the T? Dating and Relationships for Trans Women of color

MALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Trans Women of Color

Workshop Topic: 

Identity-specific

Relationships

Sexuality

DIY: Creative Masturbation Tools for the Transmasculine Individual

FEMALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  individuals who self-identify along the transmasculine spectrum

Workshop Topic: 

Sexuality

Below the Belt: Lower surgeries for men of trans experience

FEMALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Trans masculine / Trans men (FTM)/ Men of trans experience only

Workshop Topic: 

Surgery

I Will Survive: A Discussion for Masculine Presenting Survivors of DV and Sexual Assault

FEMALES ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Masculine identified or presenting survivors

Workshop Topic: 

Identity-specific

Mental Health

Personal Safety

Telling Our Stories

Feminizing the face through makeup application versus FFS

MALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Transfemale/Transfeminine/MTF

Workshop Topic: 

Gender Presentation

Oh Look! It’s a FEMALE ONLY feminism workshop! Hmm sound familiar??

Patriarchy from a Transman`s perspective

FEMALE ONLY FEMINISM GROUP CLOSED TO “TRANSWOMEN”

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

Who is the intended audience?: 

Transmale/Transmasculine/FTM

Non-binary/GQ/GNC

Intersex

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Trans and feminist specific

Workshop Topic: 

Identity-specific

Social Change/Activism

Telling Our Stories

Chest Surgery Show and Tell

FEMALE ONLY

FTM/Trans men, trans masculine folks (RESTRICTRED SESSION) [sic]

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

Workshop Topic: 

Gender Presentation

Surgery

Un-Tucked: Real talk about GRS

MALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  Transfeminine/ Trans women (MTF)/ women of trans experiences only

Workshop Topic: 

Surgery

POC Chest Binding and Surgery Show & Tell

FEMALE ONLY

Do you want this workshop to be a “closed” space?:  Closed

If closed, who should be allowed?:  those who self-identify as a person of color (POC) and along the transmasculine spectrum

Workshop Topic: 

Gender Presentation

Surgery

THIS IS NOT AN EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF ALL SEX SEGREGATED OR OTHERWISE CLOSED EVENTS AT THIS CONFERENCE.

75 Responses to “Sex Segregation and Hypocrisy in the Transgender Community”

  1. anon Says:

    weird, “closed” sessions is more 12-step speak than academic or activist speak

  2. Hecuba Says:

    Do as I say not do as I do is what is happening within the trans community. How dare radical feminists organise a conference which specifically excludes ‘the men in frocks.’ Meanwhile back at the ranch trans conferences are being ‘sex segregated and no one blinks an eye!’

    What exactly is transmasculine spectrum? Oh yes, it is code for males and means ‘females’ that is those who are mtfs are excluded based on their trans sex. Confusing? Yes but guess who is benefitting – yes trans activists Joelle Ruby Ryan and others are profiting by this conference so no protest action there then.

  3. KittyBarber Says:

    The word “female” is offensive? Now just how in the world did THAT happen? And where in “Fem 101” does it tell us that “FEMALE” is an offensive word? Ruby has totally gone off the deep end on this one. I hope the organizers of both conferences have notified the police about the threats of violence. It’s time to stop putting up with this bullshit in ANY form.
    These men are so misogynistic that they actually believe that radical feminists are the biggest threat to their existance. Have they never heard of the KKK? Good Goddess, what’s next? Protesting hospital units for mothers giving birth?

  4. dawn Says:

    The ‘Cotton Ceiling’ conference excluded females. Best not to share rape strategy with the targets.

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      It was all very *head desky* over on the CiF thread. I had explained that the majority of tranz in the UK getting a ‘gender recognition certificate’ were male and aged between 40-65, who had lived their entire lives as men.

      Then I mentioned about the CC tranz-only workshop:

      Google also “cotton ceiling” – a transwoman-only event – where was the outrage for that ‘workshop’? It was a workshop specifically for transwomen how to coerce lesbians into sleeping with them.

      I did so Google, and found the workshop to be nothing worse than a talking shop for trans women, so they can discuss ways to attempt to mitigate the effect their trans status has on their having normal sex lives; no mention of coercion at all. You make it sound like a rape workshop.

      Talk about a disconnect, these tranz supporters cannot put two and two together. This was not a workshop for M2Ts to get accepted by all non-tranz sexual partners (including het men), but the targets were lesbians, female, only. That is as predatory as the ‘pickup artists workshops’ which have het females as the targets. Perhaps these feminist-lite types would only be outraged if it were gay men holding a workshop on how to ‘recruit’ more het men as sexual partners? This seems to be about their speed, only caring when something bad happens to males. They show themselves to be more and more anti-feminist/anti-female every day.

      They also ignore the main reason why most lesbians are put off the idea of an M2T pretendbian – the fact that most of them still pack penis. And the ones that don’t, have a surgical reconstruction of female genitalia.

  5. Nicky Says:

    Yeap, it’s like they scream bloody mad when women, have their own segregated event and whine and complain about it. When they have their own and it’s segregated by sex. They don’t seem to Bat an eye at that. It just goes to show the Hypocrisy at it’s finest and clearly Trans are real hypocrites here.

  6. bugbrennan Says:

    Reblogged this on You think I just don't understand, but I don't believe you. and commented:
    Joelle Ruby Ryan, Leading With Love.

  7. RoseVerbena Says:

    The master gets to lock or unlock any room in the house; the slave will be punished for locking her door against the master.

    We’re supposed to be their handmaidens, subject to their will.

    “Trans women” my left foot. They are and always will be males with all the male arrogance, all the male narcissism, all the male entitlement.

  8. delphyne Says:

    Men have always had one set of rules and another for women. This is that same male hypocrisy dressed up, 2012 trans-stylee.

    Nobody in liberal land actually believes that women are an oppressed class, in fact they’ve always secretly believed that we’re the oppressors for standing up to men. This is their opportunity to express that belief.

  9. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you so much for posting this Gallus. You are the documentarian of all the lies, tricks, cons, and hypocrisies of the trans cult. Any woman who is confused, can just see it all here and it’s clear that men claiming female identity are oppressors, not oppressed.

    You are so right, Rose. It’s all double standards, and it’s also the same old female-hating male supremacy. Men can’t stop being men, and those who try are the most male of all with “all the male arrogance, all the male narcissism, all the male entitlement.”

    They try to muddy the issue as if we’re not accepting them because they didn’t grow up female. It is way more than that. They are male now, on every level. A castrated man is still a man, and most trannies aren’t castrated. It is their minds and spirits — every part of them. Hormones can’t change it. Posing as women doesn’t change it. Every move and every sentence shows how fully male they are, and in the worst sense.

    • Adrian Says:

      But a big part of why they are not “woman” now (and won’t ever be) is that they did not grow up as girls. They did NOT share certain formative experiences that people who are born female and snap-judged for it share (yes, SHARE, regardless of race and country). They were not oppressed for being female in their childhoods.

      I don’t know any of the proper language for any of it. But some people went after me for supposedly reducing women to biological parts, and I don’t want to do that, but rather to say, it’s about being judged being able to have children. Judged on assumptions based on physical parts. (The previous post to this blog, a reblogging of a post from Cherryblossomlife said everything so well, I can’t express how much I love that post! – and it’s in there.) For a while now, I would say, it’s about being raised as a girl. And you’re raised as a girl because of what people say looking at your genitalia when you’re born. So if you want to claim a female penis, well, so be it, but you still weren’t raised a girl.

      And sure enough!! I should not be surprised at this but I’m annoyed at it – now they try to do an end run around that one too, you have people saying it shouldn’t matter but crazier yet you have people saying (very predictably) “Well! I’m a woman! Inside! I was born a woman! Inside! Because I have a “female brain!” And so growing up, I was a girl. Inside! And I heard the various messages aimed at girls, growing up, and even though everyone around me thought I was a boy and treated me as a boy, and did not aim those messages at me, those messages resonated in my “female brain!” and I was disturbed by them! Because I thought that they “should” be aimed at me! And so I took that personally! And I was damaged by it!!! And so I DID grow up as a girl, really I did…”

      I’m sorry, but FUCK that noise. It’s just another various on the “but my penis is female genitalia because it belongs to me and I’m a woman so I was born with female genitalia…” thing.

      So yeah. *I* don’t accept them claiming “woman” because indeed, by my standards, they did not grow up female. They did not grow up as “girls” and that matters.

      It’s impossible to change the past and so they can’t ever get that experience, and that enrages them.

      Bottom line, I’m realizing now, is that ANY POSSIBLE THING that you can come up with to say, “okay, you’re fine to be you, live and let live, we should be tolerant of all (and for the record – I agree with that, I think all manner of gender transgression should be fine, goodness knows I do it), but YOU are not ME and I want to talk about that line and what makes us different and I don’t want you appropriating my experiences” is screamed at as “hating.” Because they don’t want anyone to draw that line. Ever.

      And again I can’t help but wonder, would they buy this on any other axis of oppression? Are they okay with say, white people claiming that well, they have “black brains!!! Inside!!!” and therefore should be included there? We already know that there are people who think that they are “disabled!!! Inside!!! Really truly my identity is para so when I walk around THAT is when I’m pretending, really truly!” but as it happens even a lot of trans* activists are appalled by that, so…

      • Aidan Says:

        If a child expresses their gender as feminine, won’t they receive the same judgment no matter what form of genitalia they had when they were born? Further, drawing lines separates. Why would anyone want to alienate people from their cause? Why would black people want to alienate white people from their causes because they haven’t shared the same experiences (or just merely because they are white)?

        Now, before you enter a debate on feminism with respect to transgender issues you should realize that gender and sex are separate issues. Sex refers to your biological genetic traits (male versus female). Conversely, gender is a socially constructed idea of how people should act (feminine versus masculine, man versus woman). As such, genders that are not commonly associated with biological sexes also exist (third gender). While male and female sexes are typically associated with masculine and feminine genders, this is not an absolute. Therefore, women (gender) that are discriminated against may be biologically male or female (sex). Feminism, by definition, is meant to advocate for women’s (gender) rights to political, social and economic equality with men (gender). Therefore, the biological sex of a person should be irrelevant to a true feminist. This brand of “radical feminism” that rejects trans-women as part of a unified feminist front is ridiculous.

      • Adrian Says:

        @Aidan – No one is saying that trans kids are not facing discrimination. But the discrimination they face is not the SAME discrimination.

        Just as I can’t claim to know what it’s like to have gender dysphoria, they don’t know what it’s like to be forced to be a girl and be prevented from various activities on that basis. They know what it’s like to have people shocked that they’re not conforming to “boy” and encountering homophobia and the rest of it, but that’s a different thing. They are discriminated against as “boys who want to be girls.” They do not get raised with 24/7 propaganda about rape and told that they can’t think logically.

        People can appreciate each other and aid in each other’s struggles without needing to claim to be exactly the same. There is no horrible thing about drawing a line sometimes, and saying, you know what, this issue applies to us only and we want a place to discuss it. You are fine, as you are. But don’t claim to be me.

        The conferences linked at the top of this article are good examples of that. From the topics, it’s clear that I would not be able to constructively participate in them. I might be quite interested to read some report generated there, to better understand some issues, but I don’t have any place in the discussion, and I don’t have any problem acknowledging that either.

        No one here (as far as I’ve seen, including myself) has a problem with “third gender” either, because they’re just honestly being themselves. I don’t have a problem with people saying they’re trans. It’s people who do linguistic sleight of hand to try to say that there is no difference between growing up trans and growing up assigned by others (NOTHING chosen, NOTHING to do with identity of any sort) into “girl.” That’s appropriative.

        If someone is presenting as a woman (and PASSING) and therefore getting misogynistic treatment on that basis, then yes, they have standing to talk about that experience. And that’s fine. (Though surely the knowledge that in some way it was voluntarily chosen has to affect how it affects. But the main bit, yeah, that’s the same.) But they are still trans, with a history that is different from people born and categorized as women at birth and discriminated for that. All anyone is asking is to acknowledge that that is a valid group of people with shared experiences as a class, and to stop trying to erase that line. Vast majority of the time in daily life, yeah, it doesn’t matter (if you’re passing, that is). But sometimes people want to have a closed session, and if it’s about stuff that doesn’t apply to you, because of your different history and your own different struggles, how hard is it to just back off a bit and let it be?

        Embrace your own history! It should be OKAY to do any sort of behaviors and express anywhere on the spectrum of “gender” regardless of your physical background. That’s what “no gender” is about. Let it be a continuum. The problem is all the talk of “female brains” and whatever else starts trying to shove me back into that same old box that says I supposedly can’t think properly about spatial relationships and only want to engage in “social play” and all that nonsense, so it rankles.

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      The thin (imaginary?) line between “trans women” whacktivists and MRA whacktivists gets more porous and smudged every day. Pretty soon these dudes are going to start head-lining anti-woman MRA conferences as treasured speakers who are happy to lecture to the men about “how horrible and dangerous feminists are”.

      After all: men.

      • Aidan Says:

        This comment is vacuous. Men can be feminists too. Women who are unwilling to accept men into feminism merely perpetuate the gender binary and the “gender-wars” created by a male dominated patriarchal society in which women are seeking rights and equal status. Unity of feminists would be more beneficial than this “radical feminism” offshoot that promotes hatred toward men and trans-folk.

      • DaveSquirrel Says:

        Hey look! The feminist police have turned up!
        We’re doin’ it wrong – who knew?!!

        Take your equalist rubbish and shove it. I am personally sick of equalitists pretending to be feminists.

        You want to go here:
        http://equalist.org/

      • GallusMag Says:

        One of Joelle’s students. Hey Aiden/Kayden/Jayden read a book.

      • anon Says:

        Aidan: there are many males who support exclusively female spaces and activism. The funny thing is that when we express those views in open forums, we get shouted down as “mansplainers” by your crowd — which is hilarious given your politics. I guess kyriarcherainers or whatever doesn’t have the same ring to it.

    • ethicalequinox Says:

      Yes, “Luna”, good to know that you’re OMG JUST LIKE RUSH LIMBAUGH OMG OMG OMG YOU ARE SO EVIL AND VILE AND BAD.

      And am I to guess that you support what the Nazis did to suspected lesbians and feminists? Damn, that Hitler guy sure was onto something!

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      Nicky – you really are the best. Thanks for keeping the Kallmann’s folks informed and aware. ;0)

      • Nicky Says:

        Not a problem, The more people are made aware of the trans hypocrisy, the more people will wise up and see trans for who they are.

  10. Adrian Says:

    And also… if women are so different across racial and class and national lines that they can’t possibly share some experiences to unite as a class, why then is it that trans* people can share some experience enough to be a class, then? Because come on, I know it’s the elephant in the room but let’s not pretend (as it were) that the experience of a teenaged transitioner who magically passes everywhere shares all that much in common with the middle-aged “woah, man in a dress!” alarm-sounding late-transitioning person who has a few kids and is very extremely concerned with issues of what to do when people DON’T read the appearance as “female,” and that’s even before we get into the SAME issues of race and class differences.

    I mean, what, you want to say that women can’t be a unified group because there are women of different races and classes, but somehow the trans* experience overrides those same race and class differences? Why? Particularly given that so much of “gender dysphoria” in the sense of “what is this people want me to be A but I’m really B, please…” is endemic to growing up female in a patriarchal system to begin with?

  11. Aidan Says:

    it’s “she”, not “he”, when you refer to Joelle. your arbitrary labeling of gender pronouns based solely on a perceived “biological sex” is as silly as your backwards views. you do feminism a discredit and I hope people like you never find a public voice again when your words are so damaging (and you obviously don’t understand the weight of your words).

    • Aidan Says:

      Or you do understand the weight of your words, in which case your are heartless, cold, and filled with hate.

      • Aidan Says:

        you*

      • DaveSquirrel Says:

        Please ensure you address me with the correct squirrel pronouns, lest I label you a hatefilled bigot.

        See how much fun it is, catering to everyone’s delusion!

        And for the paranoid delusions, like someone thinking they have a radio transmitter in their teeth transmitting signals to aliens – you had better play along with that too.

        Gender – just another internal delusion.

      • RoseVerbena Says:

        Ruby? It that you?

    • Mortified Says:

      Wow. We truly live in a diseased culture, where it’s considered hateful to acknowledge a fact. It’s silly to think that an XY person is a man and an XX person is a woman. Silly to think it and hateful to say it.

      “Two plus two is five, Winston, when the Party wants it to be five.” Although really, what I have read here is more like Huxley’s Brave New World. “After all, everyone belongs to everyone else, right?”

  12. GallusMag Says:

    @Aiden-
    “If a child expresses their gender as feminine, won’t they receive the same judgment no matter what form of genitalia they had when they were born?”

    No.

    Girls are treated as second class regardless of whether they exhibit traits categorized by patriarchy as “Feminine” (submissive) or “Masculine” (dominant).
    No female escapes membership in the underclass, because it is based on sex, not gender.

    Boys who fail to exhibit dominant behaviors (“Masculinity”) are pressured to conform and comply with their sex-based role as oppressors. Sometimes these “corrective measures” take the form of bullying and abuse. This has nothing to do with being born into the underclass (female). This has to do with the male’s position in the hierarchy of the ruling class: male.
    Male position in the ruling class is based on the extent to which he oppresses females. No male escapes membership in the ruling class, because it is based on sex, not gender.

    “Further, drawing lines separates. Why would anyone want to alienate people from their cause? Why would black people want to alienate white people from their causes because they haven’t shared the same experiences (or just merely because they are white)?”

    Acknowledging female oppression does not mean that females are causing their own oppression. Females are born on the side of the “line” which causes their oppression: reproductive sex. They did not “draw that line”. Recognizing that fact and organizing against male supremacy and the structures that uphold and perpetuate same does not alienate those who support female liberation. The rights of females to organize together for female liberation do not alienate those who support female liberation. The rights of Blacks to organize together for Black liberation do not alienate those who support Black liberation. When members of the overclass demand inclusion in organizing by those they oppress, or when members of the overclass threaten withdrawal of allyship and support if their input is rejected, those actions are not caused by the oppressed groups. Rather, those actions are evidence that desire for inclusion in organizing is based on the oppressors own objectives, not a desire to support.

    Also- your pal Joe Ruby Ryan, and all trans activists, are not claiming “they haven’t shared the same experiences” as females. Rather, they are claiming that reproductively female humans don’t exist, that there is no such thing as the shared experience of sex-based oppression, and no oppression. That is false. Across all cultures female humans are oppressed from the moment of birth based on perceived female reproductive potential. Joe claims that he, a male, is reproductively female. He is not. Joe, a male, claims that there is no universal class experience of being born female. That is incorrect.

    “Feminism, by definition, is meant to advocate for women’s (gender) rights to political, social and economic equality with men (gender).”

    Gender = stereotypical sex-roles based on reproductive sex, with masculinity = domination and femininity = subjugation. Feminism does not support stereotypes. Feminism does not support sex-roles. Feminism does not support gender. Because these things are part of the structures that oppress females. Feminism advocates for female rights. Not for the “right” to engage in sexism and sex-stereotyping.

    Genderism, whether of the trans variety or the religionist variety or the conservative right-wing traditionalist variety, is by definition anti-female and anti-feminist.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Aiden, if you comment again: specifically address the issues raised in this post (Is it “ridiculous” for Trans conferences to include sex-segregated programming?) and/or the responses to your comments which folks have been kind enough to take the time to post. Thanks.

      • KittyBarber Says:

        All women who grew up with brothers in the household know very well what second class feels like. For example, I was assigned to kitchen duty, while my older brother got up from the table (like my father) and did whatever he pleased.

        All women who attended mixed-sex schools know what second class feels like. I was forced to take “home economics”–cooking and cleaning classes–and the boys in my class learned how to make things and repair things in “shop” classes.

        Every woman who grew up as a girl knows what rape and the threat of rape is and what it does to a girl’s world. And every woman knows what the fear of an unwanted pregnancy might feel like.

        These are facets of a girl’s world that change us; those who grew up as boys cannot know what a girl’s life is like. The fear, the sorrow, the longing for freedom; the humiliation, and feelings of worthlessness–it’s in the air around one, permeates a girl’s defenses, poisons her food, steals her joy.

        So we gather together to find ways to change this.

        And these men want to deprive us of this, too, under threat of more violence.

        To quote Joelle Ruby Ryan: Fuck you.

    • Adrian Says:

      You express everything much better than I am able to. I will just say, I second this comment.

      But absolutely I have to (sadly) agreed that yes, “Girls are treated as second class regardless of whether they exhibit traits categorized by patriarchy as “Feminine” (submissive) or “Masculine” (dominant).”

      Goodness knows it was true for me. It was about being wrong, and about “what, so you pretend to be what you are not? You will fail, why do you try such silliness?” and meanwhile “So you need to make things easier on yourself, and accept the costume that’s prescribed for you, why must you be so difficult?”

      I didn’t give up, and stayed “weird” and “ugly” and “immature” and luckily for me the dire horrible consequences that were supposedly guaranteed didn’t happen because I got lucky and found a niche for myself (in a “male” occupation, ha), weird as I am. (Which is just unfeminine, I guess.)

      But that’s why it was a breath of fresh air to find blogs like this one, and why I am disturbed by places that try to say that there is such a thing as a “female brain.” Because the moment someone says that, they are saying, to me, that there’s a certain way of thinking that MAPS, 100%, to having female biology and genitalia. If THEY can say “I think [this way] therefore I know I’m a woman, inside” then that is saying, automatically, that those of us born women must (surely!!!) think this way, or that way, because if it weren’t like that, then how can those people claim such thoughts as proof that they “are really women, inside”?? And I reject that. There is no “female brain.” I am TIRED of people telling me that I’m a girl and I should therefore (and MUST, therefore!) have these thoughts or those thoughts and can’t be logical or can’t think spatially and all the rest of it. I’m sorry, but FUCK that noise. I don’t “feel like a woman inside” or “identify with my genitalia.” My bits are what they are, they serve me well, but I am a human. In my brain.

      So yes. No gender. That seems the best for everyone. Wear what you want, behave as you want, and don’t let anyone assume what your genitals are because of that, or heaven forbid try to bring violence when they “mismatch.”

      • RoseVerbena Says:

        Your very eloquent post is reminding me of a conversation I had a while back with a boyfriend I lived with in my late teens. He was in his twenties when we dated and had already finished college and was going to graduate school when I was just getting started in college. He was so arrogant, so endlessly condescending — my being at a freshman level in my education didn’t equate in his mind to me being young and having a lot to learn. It equated to me being “silly” and “ignorant”. He was endlessly amazed that I didn’t know things that he knew, especially all the things about the wilderness and nature he had learned on his way through Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, becoming an Eagle Scout and then building on that as an avid outdoorsman and natural scientist.

        I looked up to him without really questioning it at the time (oh, didn’t he love all that adoration!!!) But now looking back I can clearly see how he was camping and hiking while I was learning to sew and cook. He was relatively fearless with his guy friends in the woods and my girlfriends and I were constantly in fear of encountering “a bad man” when we were somewhere too remote to summon help from family members or trusted neighbors. While he and his Eagle Scout buddies and troop leaders were spending weeks hiking in the mountains, my girlfriends and I were flopped across our beds in the relative safety of our homes, talking about movie stars, clothes, make-up and relationships — more like women in a locked harem than any of us realized at the time. Our locks consisted of our fears, our parents’ (especially our mothers’) anxiety on our behalf as nubile females in a rape culture, our lack of education, our lack of opportunity, our lack of societal expectations.

        Fast forward thirty-five years and this ex- whom I hadn’t seen or spoken with in decades said to me, “I keep trying to figure out how YOU because a [scientist].”

        I had to shake my head and laugh, “The same way YOU did, through long years of hard work and education.”

        That’s how any human being achieves their full potential: through hard work and education. “Female brain” my left foot! There are women and men who can and do use their minds to do any task, from programming a stored procedure to researching cancer to creating intricate embroidery to learning the most difficult cello piece in the repertoire. Don’t tell me I have a “female” brain. I have a brain that is only limited in what it can learn and do by time, biological health and the effort I am willing to expend.

    • BadDyke Says:

      O golly, and DIDN’T that get a load of flak! Anything but innate, binary jenduh is TRANSPHOBIC. And very, very sad to see that even a fairly mild suggestion (i.e., relaxing binary gender might mean fewer people have SRS), is seen as BAD. What other supposed ‘medical’ condition can you think of where an alternative treatment that requires LESS surgery for equally-good results would be though of as a step backwards?

      But just makes it even clearer that what is required is strict adherence to the binary innate-gender trans cult, and NOTHING ELSE is allowed. Although I’m not totally clear on what the issues are as regards the transsexual/transgender sniping.

      Some people just aren’t willing to give up on the girl brain/boy brain thing — either because they want their ‘boy brain’ to justify their inclusion in the class male….

      OR because they can’t really face up to the prospect that males and females AREN’T that different in the head innately. Because to do so means then asking — but why do they get treated so differently in society? They’d have to face-up to the centuries of patriarchy, and the question of who benefits and what we ought to do about it.

      So, used to be that men and women were ‘naturally’ different because of the strange intellect-sapping effects of the womb, now we’re ‘naturally’ different because of our girlie brains — I don’t think there is anywhere else for the ‘natural’ difference to get pushed, now that it’s been pushed back into the murky recesses of the brain, the modern equivalent of having a female soul or essence.

      • Adrian Says:

        “True Transsexuals” are the ones who are really intersex because they were BORN with “girl brains” from BIRTH! and so the penis is just a “birth defect” and they are truly compelled to FIX that “birth defect,” but they’ve always been women, really, inside!! from BIRTH! (And the unspoken criteria is – they pass, and so they want to go stealth – because they CAN.) “True Transsexuals” don’t want to have anything to do with gender bending or gender blurring or the “queer” labels, because they are “Just Women! Okay? Who happened to fix a birth defect of intersex and that’s all!!”

        Meanwhile “transgender,” well, hey, they’re just one tiny step up (if that) from crossdressers and transvestites, and they’re into gender bending and even heaven forbid occasionally claiming to be a third gender or no gender, and they like being part of the “queer” umbrella, and they often openly acknowledge being trans* even after transition (often because, to be frank, they don’t pass) and that’s just dangerous, because if the True Transsexuals start hanging out with those people others might start questioning their True! Woman! Status!

        I mean, what, the gateways to transition used to be fairly strict but now they’re just letting ANYONE in!!! The horror!

        See also: “Harry Benjamin Syndrome” and the endless wank surrounding it.

        (Yep! Outsiders read those websites! Hi!)

  13. doublevez Says:

    You are so fine Gallus. I hope Aiden appreciates the gift he/she has just been given.

    • michelle Says:

      Yet another stellar example of the hypocrisy…and proving once again that they simply don’t get the reproductive rights issue…I guess that one forgot that the L in PFLAG stands for lesbian, which coincidentally is a population that just might have a need for information or services related to pregnancy.


    • Disgusting.
      He’s as right-wing and conservative as you can get.

    • yttik Says:

      What do you call somebody who is pro-choice about their own body……but does not extend that same right to women born women?

      A man.

      The Gov should have to pay for my sex change surgery because it’s my civil right, but women should not have access to choice or reproductive services because I don’t “believe” in that.

      Just an ordinary patriarchal man doing what has been done for centuries. Freedom for me, not for thee. It only sounds illogical and contradictory until you put it back in it’s patriarchal context, where everything is irrational and contradictory.

  14. Maria Says:

    Aidan “t’s “she”, not “he”, when you refer to Joelle. your arbitrary labeling of gender pronouns based solely on a perceived “biological sex” is as silly as your backwards views. you do feminism a discredit and I hope people like you never find a public voice again when your words are so damaging (and you obviously don’t understand the weight of your words).”

    Biologist here.Has the world gone nuts?Biological sex is a physical reality,it is not based on “perceptions”.When will this idiocy stop?

    Oh please do come to our uni and try to convince us that a penis is a female organ.I dare you.

    • RoseVerbena Says:

      I have to confess that I am often amazed at how little basic biological science the “trans” whacktivists seem to know. I can’t tell if it’s part of the gender identity disorder itself (clinical denial), part of the group-think (willful ignorance reinforcing itself in the echo chamber) or if our schools are just not getting through to these kids on basic topics like, “Where do babies come from?”

      Every, single human being on Earth was born from a woman’s body. No human being on Earth was born from a man’s body. They know this, right? How can they just deny the existence of ova and sperm, female and male?

      It boggles my mind that what should be this:

      “Bob likes to wear dresses, bake brownies and watch tear-jerker movies which is fine — because Bob should just be Bob without silly gender rules.”

      has become this:

      “Bobbie’s penis is REALLY a female penis because Bobbie has always been female — all those people who changed his diapers, bathed him and raised him were just WRONG about his sex — and if you disagree with me on this point then you are a hateful, mean, phobic person and you should die in a fire.”

      • Mortified Says:

        @Rose: Perfect except for one point. You got HER pronouns wrong. You hateful, mean, phobic person; please die in a fire.😉 (scnr)


    • Oh how you all make me titter with your die in a fire……. LOL!

      They do love to say that don’t, they?


  15. […] SEE:”The international Transgender Activist community, along with allied “Men’s Rights” Advocates h…“ Because woman talk is dangerous and a threat to patriarchal order numerous means have been developed to preempt it. […] One obvious means of preventing the talk of women is by intimidation. The threat to patriarchal order which is posed by woman talk is countered by a threat to women who are presumptuous enough to attempt to talk. […] Intimidation also makes its presence felt in the way which the talk of women is discredited. In case women do circumvent the restrictions and begin to talk, patriarchal order can defend itself by the wholesale discounting of what it is that women have to say. […] Blatant intimidation, however, can be provocative: it can be visible and therefore open to dispute and even to the possibility of rejection. […] One simple – and slightly more subtle – means of curtailing the dangerous talk of women is to restrict their opportunities for talk. […] Women experience reduced opportunities to talk either by being directly controlled by males in mixed-sex discourse or by being indirectly controlled by males who have systematically denied them places – and opportunities – to conduct single-sex talk. It is when these controls prove insufficient that intimidation can be called upon in its more explicit forms. (pp.106-8) […]

  16. Maria Says:

    My personal hypothesis on the causes of transgenderism is the following:People of a certain sex are so charmed with the supposed advantanges of the opposite sex that they persuade themselves that they will be happier if they were the other sex.Because they will never ever get the chance of actually tasting the biological reality of being that opposite sex (how many MTFs would keep dreaming of having a period,being pregnant and giving birth,all biological functions that are dangerous,messy and painfull if they ever had the chance to actually experience them?) that delusion will continue.I say hypothesis because we still dont have a solid scientific theory on the causes of transexualism/transgenderism.The puplised papers regarding supposed similarities between the MTFs brains and the female brain do not provide us with anything solid as a biological cause.The most they could give us is that there is a biological tendency to do and like genderwise “female stuff”. That tendency could confuse them even more and lead them to the false conclusion that since they like “girly staff” they should have been born female.

    Still I will say again that there is no solid scientific theory on the causes of transexualism/genderism so I urge everyone to be more carefull when they lay down their ideas regarding the causes.A lot of people sound so damn sure!I say that as a friend and sympathiser,I say that as a scientist and a butch lesbian (who never experienced biological sex dysphoria of any kind).

    It is also in my humble opinion that most of MTFs transition and live their lives in peace.Only a small minority is making those crazy arguments and those threats and it would be unfair to paint every person with biological sex dysphoria as a crazy misogynist.

    Of course the crazies should never be allowed to prevail.

    Every woman that gets threatened in any way by those bullies should report to the authorities and have the matter legally taken cared of.

    PS sorry for any grammar/syntax errors in my posts english is not my native language.

    • GallusMag Says:

      “The puplised papers regarding supposed similarities between the MTFs brains and the female brain do not provide us with anything solid as a biological cause.The most they could give us is that there is a biological tendency to do and like genderwise “female stuff”.”
      I dispute this. Where did you see this “scientific conclusion” ?

      Also, what in this thread are you directing your concern-trolling to? Please clarify. Thx.

  17. Maria Says:

    I read some papers and there were indeed similarities between the brain of MTFs and women in at least one area.The sample of brains examined was small and hormones taken artificially could perhaps affected that area.So more research has to be done in order to have more solid data.

    I said “could give us” I did not claim that they “do” give us.I an not saying they do.I said they might.Why I like motorbikes but other women are happy with dolls?Is there a biological basis for this?Υοu see there are butch girls and girly girls and there are butch boys and femme boys.Why?Is there a biological base for this?

    But really when I post opinions that agree with yours I am an ok person but when I post things that clash with your establised views (anything concerning gender has no biological basis) I am a troll?
    Am I going to become the enemy now?Just for daring to say the truth that the debate for the causes of transexualism among scientists is open?

    To make things clear.Biological sex is a physical reality.Feeling you are a woman/man inside does not make you one.But that feeling could have a biological basis.If that biological basis leads to behaviours atribbuted by society to a certain sex,the afflicted individual could end up believing he/she was born as the wrong sex.

    • GallusMag Says:

      The study you refer to was of 16 cadavers and sought to measure whether male brains subjected to long term high dose estrogen would undergo shrinkage in the same way males experience other organ shrinkage (of the prostate for example) on long term high dose estrogen. Results were inconclusive. There was no control group. “Feminine behaviors” and liking “Girly things” was not measured. You, a self described scientist turned that single tiny inconclusive study into this statement: “The puplised papers regarding supposed similarities between the MTFs brains and the female brain do not provide us with anything solid as a biological cause. The most they could give us is that there is a biological tendency to do and like genderwise “female stuff”.”

      You, a scientist, drew a inexplicably broad and erroneous conclusion from this study, then posted those conclusions on a gender-focused blog, in the guise of being “concerned” that others may not have adequately considered your theories and the demonstrably incorrect conclusions you have drawn from that old cadaver study. This is the definition of “concern trolling”. I suggest you google the term “concern troll” which should clarify for you why I correctly categorized your comment as such. Additionally, I inquired to whom in this thread you were directing your “concern”, because it seemed unrelated to anything being discussed in this thread.

      Are you “the enemy now”? What does that even mean? This is a discussion thread. People will discuss the comments that are posted. If you find that disagreeable I suggest you limit your posting to places where no one can respond to what you assert. I’m sure you are a fine person, certainly not my enemy. I took issue with your sexist conclusions about the science that has been done and any relationship to “do[ing] and like[ing] genderwise “female stuff”. Don’t take that as a personal attack or dislike please. Thanks.

  18. Maria Says:

    First of all I am not a self described scientist I hold a degree in Biology.What did you study?

    Secondly I have already pointed out that a)the sample was too small b)that we cannot draw safe conclusions (you cannot do that from a single study in any field of science).(I have read some more papers not only the above by the way).

    Thirdly I never said that those differences are the proof that there is a biological basis for certain “girly” or “boyish” behaviours.I said that there might be a biological basis.Is that hard to understand?
    “Might”,”a hypothesis”,are not terms associated with certainty.

    Finally you responded in a manner I deem aggressive.I never mind civil responses and I actually enjoy civil debates.CIVIL debates.

    Calling my “conclusions” as you say (not really conclusions since the term I used was “a hypothesis” not a “theory” and in science there is a huge difference between a hypothesis and a theory-hey at least in natural sciences) sexist is offensive.

    Calling my comments “concern trolling” is another example of name calling.I am sorry but really I dont give a dime if you accept my hypothesis or not.But I do give a dime if someone starts offending me.

    How am I a sexist when I mentioned that there are are “femme” boys and “butch” girls?I think you could call me a sexist if I said that it is in the nature of girls to do and like “girly things” and in the nature of boys to do “boyish” things.But I digress.

    I do not intend to engage in a foolish flame war.

    • ethicalequinox Says:

      Well, you sure do act as though disagreeing with a *hypothesis* is akin to disagreeing with a *conclusion*, or else it wouldn’t really be such a big deal if GM pointed out the flaws in that study and your interpretation of it.

    • Adrian Says:

      Perhaps there are “femme” boys but “femme” boys are not “women inside,” THAT is the problem with this argument. “Butch” girls aren’t “really men” either.

      I’ve never done “femme.” I rejected that role when it was required (well, I wore the required skirt uniform in school, but that was the extent of it – and I wore it with sneakers and short hair). I never played with dolls or liked pretend play of any sort. I’ve never worn either makeup or high heeled shoes in my life and I don’t intend to start. Never wore the dresses my parents bought and tried to force me into. I happily sit “Indian style.” I detested puberty and got depressed over it, because I didn’t want to be “a woman.” (Who would, when all it means is people looking at you sexually, expecting you to have kids, and denying you career options???) I’d rather not grow up if it meant now I had to be “hot.” I was in the math/science track in high school, went on to a technical career. I detest social games.

      Was this caused by some physical things? Maybe. I have a mole on my face, too.

      But I’m not “a man inside.” I’m not “really a boy.” There’s been plenty of times I’ve certainly wished I had been born a boy, but I wasn’t, and that’s that. I’m fine with my genitalia, I wish people did not feel they should have RIGHTS to my genitalia. I wish people did not think it’s okay to call me aberrant and need “fixing” for not wanting to have sex. That problem isn’t with me, it’s with them. Sure, I’ve thought about what it might be like to be the penetrator instead of the penetrated – because wouldn’t it be nice to have sex and not be “giving it up” and all the rest of the baggage that goes along with it? To not live in fear of rape?

      I’m a woman. Female. With the brain I have, which means it’s a female brain. Full stop. Whatever my soul is, has to be put on the “woman” side of the chart and let that expand the boundaries of the possibilities of “woman.” And, I say the same for the reverse case.

      What disturbs me about reading so much of the modern trans* rhetoric, particularly where it concerns children and how people “know they’re trans*” is that (1) they’re trying to draw the lines of gender ever tighter, so that even in childhood now we’re supposed to fit into this small box or that small box, and they’re saying that the box you fit should match your genitals, and if it doesn’t, you need to FIX your genitalia. Just… wut? (2) by half the stories out there, *I* probably would be told I was trans*. But I’m not! I’m just a non-conforming woman, and (3) I fail to see how someone can say they “know they’re a woman inside” if… they’re not a woman. (The best they can do is say “I think my brain functions like the stereotype of ‘woman’ we see in the media.”) Whatever “femme” soul they have, is an example of a male brain. Just an outlier, and THAT SHOULD BE FINE.

      On the other side, you could have a born male out there, a man, who thought like I do – can’t imagine wearing a dress, science track all the way, mostly socializing with boys, all of it – and HE could say, “well, I think like a woman” – because he thinks like me, doesn’t he? And I’m a woman. But no one would ever say that – we need to ask, why?

      I do sort of understand the kids in modern US settings who are struggling with the modern gender boundaries, that they want to socialize with mainly girls (because they share interests and outlook and all the rest – though of course there are girls out there wanting to hang with the boys for the same reason too) and society doesn’t LET them because unless someone can yank down the pants and say “girl! Okay!” then they’re forbidden from those playdates and those groups. But THAT is the problem, the segregation of kids.

      Of course there are all sorts of reactionaries who use this “brain science” to somehow prove that girls need this kind of education while boys need this other sort (and that’s yet another reason I’m skeptical of these studies). They say that well, look, girls are this way boys are that way.

      But IF that were true, why not let the kids just sort into their own boxes then? If the sexes really do think differently, then well, they’ll sort “properly” then won’t they?

      But of course no one really thinks they will, so there’s the endless policing.

      • ethicalequinox Says:

        “On the other side, you could have a born male out there, a man, who thought like I do – can’t imagine wearing a dress, science track all the way, mostly socializing with boys, all of it – and HE could say, “well, I think like a woman” – because he thinks like me, doesn’t he? And I’m a woman. But no one would ever say that – we need to ask, why?”

        Exactly. And they never do say anything even remotely similar to this. Because they know full well that they are basing all their notions of “feminine” and “masculine” on misogynistic stereotypes, and they are afraid of losing ground if they it out loud.

      • Mortified Says:

        I agree with you except for this:
        ‘… got depressed over it, because I didn’t want to be “a woman.” (Who would, when all it means is people looking at you sexually, expecting you to have kids, and denying you career options???)’

        Woman’s biological role is a gift. Sure, it’s fine if you choose not to use that gift, that’s your right. But it’s wrong to assume that all women feel the same way … or that they should. I think a lot of the female readers of this blog would not have it any other way. Would you?

        You’re chafing at the social expectations. “All it means [to be a woman]” is what you choose to make it mean. Yes, there is bad stuff to go with it. Things are bad in their own way for men. Think about it. Patriarchy and misogyny don’t truly benefit anyone. Wouldn’t we all be happier without that crap?

        As for career options, we live in a screwed up culture. I’d be happier if I could get out of the rat race altogether. As they say, even if you win the rat race, you’re still just a rat.🙂 But indeed, it sucks to be rat-racing with the men getting a head start.

      • RoseVerbena Says:

        Thank you, Adrian. Very eloquently said.

      • Adrian Says:

        @Moritified – yeah, I was emphasizing the negative there just for the flow of the thing. But you’re right, it’s not all negative, and I’m not that negative about it all of the time. (No way do I want to give up my bits, anyway!)

        It’s true, what needs to change is the environment. And absolutely yes, I do think it would benefit both men AND women. Thanks for the reminder.

      • Adrian Says:

        @RoseVerbena – Thanks. I’ve quite enjoyed your Tumblr.

    • retorter2012 Says:

      “I say that as a scientist and a butch lesbian (who never experienced biological sex dysphoria of any kind).”
      THEN you say;
      ” First of all I am not a self described scientist I hold a degree in Biology.What did you study?”
      Not your only (ahem) “contradiction”. Do you see why people might not have a lot of confidence in your assertions?


  19. […] A lot of those topics are of no interest to transwomen, and have their roots in the unique reproductive vulnerabilities of being born female. The ‘critique of gender and queer theory’ would be inclusive of gender role analysis, harking back to Second Wave Feminist views of how narrowly defined gender roles are the method by which sexism and discrimination is enacted upon females. It also appears to be a theory-based proposal, a discussion of ideas and viewpoints – according to Conway Hall and Transgender activists, we are not allowed to discuss such theories without Transgender activists being present – I gather they think they are allowed to discuss such theories without Radfems being present? That is a double-standard. […]

  20. 31sweetpea Says:

    Stephen Ira is INSANE. She (Kathlyn Beatty) is neither transgender nor gay. She espouses being transgender but loves to wear dresses and makeup. I believe she is truly a schizophrenic young woman who is hertero and attracted to men. She is angry at her celebrity parents and displaces her rage on all those who are strong enough to disagree with her. A brilliant woman, yet deeply troubled by severe mental problems.


  21. […] by sex as well? It seems that they are targeting feminists, not segregation, in their hatred. Gendertrender looks at the hypocrisy of the transgender […]


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