Trans Media Watch’s Paris Lees interview with Julie Bindel

July 9, 2012

Filmed in April 2012. Paris Lees incorrectly claims that Sheila Jeffreys has posted on GenderTrender. This is not true and has never happened. Lees also claims I have posted photos of trans people’s genitals. That is also not true, and has also never happened. (although if folks are posting photos of their genitals for public perusal and discussion I would certainly have no ethical issue with someone posting those public photos- for example to document a male aggressively exposing themselves to women, or as visual documentation of a medical or surgical issue). Paris I look forward to seeing your written corrections posted in Meta Magazine.

I have however documented Lees’ post on the subject of Julie Bindel’s genitals, titled “Julie Bindel’s Genitals” here:

69 Responses to “Trans Media Watch’s Paris Lees interview with Julie Bindel”

  1. feral opera company Says:

    WTF? I’m only 4 minutes into the video, but I have to say something…Paris Lees has this triumphant glint in his eye, like he’s a grand inquisitor showing off his newly rehabilitated political prisoner. Sad.

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      Yes. 😦

      The stuff about Sheila Jeffreys posting at GT, Pretendbians, etc, I think is trans confusing “SheilaG” as Sheila Jeffreys. Anyone that knows (at least in an online sense) both, knows that they are quite different.

      Or maybe trans are just spreading bullshit propaganda again?

      • GallusMag Says:

        Their are several Sheilas, Sheelas, etc that have commented on this blog. None of them are Sheila Jeffreys. Jeffreys has neither posted nor commented on this blog. Ever.

        It’s just irresponsible tabloid journalism, flavored with anti-lesbian anti-feminist animus. Complete bullocks.

      • DaveSquirrel Says:

        Ah yes, I noticed the ‘sheela’ one too.

      • doublevez Says:

        Their usual fine research and attention to fact and detail. (sic)

        They just keep doing our work for us.

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      Try this one (I did not realise the previous was a ’embedding disabled’ until the comment was posted)

  2. feral opera company Says:

    A bit after 4:00, Lees gets Bindel to agree that she could be “transgender,” in the sense of defying gender stereotypes. This is something that should never be said to a trans inquisitor, because it will be taken out of context. For instance, I saw, I think on Dirt’s blog, a trans person claiming that ancient tombs that contained the remains of women dressed as warriors, show that those women were transgender. Obviously, it was more likely that that that society accepted women as warriors, but those women never stopped thinking of themselves as women. But the trans coopted them. So it’s totally not a good idea for Bindel to be willing to be on the transgender spectrum, because it will be used to support the whole trans position.

    Also, Lees claims that the pix of trans peoples’ genitals are “ridicule.” And Bindel doesn’t challenge him on this, because she doesn’t know either way. She really should read Dirt’s blog, because it’s obvious that it’s only honest reporting with the motivation of compassion. If no one is allowed to see the results of transssexual surgery, how will we know what’s being done, and what non-conforming children face in the future? Lees is gaslighting everyone who reports news that doesn’t support the trans agenda.

  3. DaveSquirrel Says:

    So, didn’t Paris Lees lead the charge against the conference last year? And GM has a screenshot of Lees putting up a picture ridiculing Bindel’s “genitals” (generic reproductive organ picture)?

    And isn’t Lees pro-porn, pro-bdsm, pro-prostitution?
    Everything that Bindel (was thought to) be against?

  4. GallusMag Says:

    I give Julie Bindel a ton of credit. No matter how many times she has been misquoted, maligned, misrepresented, verbally abused and physically assaulted ( ) She STILL keeps trying to dialogue with those that have supported or even taken part in (as Lees has) such misogynist attacks. She never gives up, she never loses her cool, she never stops trying. SHE IS BADASS.

  5. GallusMag Says:

    I am Soooo tempted to post a photo of someone’s genitals now just to make Paris Lees’ fantasy come true.

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      Toby has a ladystick that he likes to show off.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Whatever ya do, don’t do a google image search for “neovag” like I just did. Surgery pics.

      • doublevez Says:

        Neo vags failures are all over the web. I don’t have enough caffeine… . They really need to go after the genital butchers on this one.

        You know it doesn’t matter how much we disprove their hyperbole and misinformation, the hive believes it. And it does US credit when they do. Carry on bozos.

  6. GallusMag Says:

    OK FOLKS! HERE GOES! At GenderTrender we pride ourselves on meeting our readers expectations. So in honor of Paris Lees’ GenderTrender Genital Fantasy, here is the first and only transgender genitalia photo posted on this site. Enjoy!

    From the Trannymals website, natch:

  7. luckynkl Says:

    Did we watch the same video? I saw Julie Bindel selling women out, bashing radical feminists, groveling for the approval of a dude in a skirt, and all but apologize for being a woman. I sensed fear on Bindel but that’s still no excuse. How does appeasing and kissing the ass of men help women? Never in the history of humankind has anyone ever been liberated by appeasing the master and submitting to his oppression.

    After watching that video, I’m pretty disgusted with Julie Bindel and have lost all respect for her. Maybe Bindel was once a bad ass, but all I see now is a coward and a sell-out. American RFs are nasty, she says, while she grovels for the approval of that prick who is pro-porn, pro-bdsm, pro-prostitution, anti-female, anti-feminist, homophobic and supports the sex roles which keep women down. Well, Mz. Bindel, those nasty American RFs are the folks who created radical feminism, and you, m’dear, are nothing but a cheap imitation.

    As for that little weasel Paris Lee, I would’ve chewed him up and spit the bones out. No retreat. No surrender. No compromise. Men are not raised and conditioned to compromise. They are raised and conditioned to conquer. They are not going to stop until they completely conquer women and their spaces. Period.

    • GallusMag Says:

      TBH the whole “identify as female” thing was kinda like WHAT?!? WTF does that EVEN MEAN? Maybe she misspoke.
      It’s easy to misspeak in a live interview.
      And of course the whole “men who think they are lesbians at heart really ARE lesbians” was absurd. I certainly disagree with that absurdity.

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      I agree Lucky, it was a sell out. We are setting boundaries, she has just undermined those boundaries.

      As you say, kissing up to the oppressor does not work, they don’t recognise compromise, only complete surrender.

      I don’t understand being so nice to someone who is pro-porn, pro-bdsm, pro-prostitution either. That is the compromise right there, because if he wasn’t wearing woman-suit, surely she would not have been so nicey? She wouldn’t have sucked up to a pro-pornstitution male or female, but trans? Yes she did. And also someone who has attacked her in the past, and run a campaign to shut down that conference last year? Why be nicey to anyone who has 100% opposite views like that, who doesn’t give a fig how many females are damaged by porn, prostitution and bdsm?

      • GallusMag Says:

        I just watched it again. Yeah it’s weird how she characterizes some of the radfem blogs – I don’t actually know any blogs that match her description. Maybe one. It makes me think that perhaps Julie hasn’t really read much of current radfem bloggers.
        Did Paris Lees suggest that Julie Bindel do a guest post on GenderTrender?!

      • GallusMag Says:

        You can title it “Why I Don’t Like This Blog” by Julie Bindel

      • DaveSquirrel Says:

        or “Why I seemingly abandoned all my anti-pornstitution principles in order to suck up to a porn-sick dude in womansuit”

        because we would really like to know if Ms Bindel still adheres to her anti-pornstitution stance. Frankly, I would not be so polite to someone who promotes porn and bdsm, I’d be identifying the porn-pusher as a female-hater, no matter what costume they wear.

  8. Miska Says:

    I had to stop watching when I got to the part where Bindel says “radfems act as if all women are good”. Haha. That is a textbook anti-feminist argument, and it’s rubbish. I can only see this video as capitulation, and even though I would rather she didn’t, I can kinda see why she does. She is a public figure, who makes a living off her name. And she has previously said that the attacks from trans activists have involved the worst misogyny she has experienced. I can understand why this would be exhausting, and why she might seek to minimize it.

    I can’t say I’m not disappointed, though.

  9. doublevez Says:

    Women who receive abuse and threats from trans need to make it PUBLIC. Alice Dreger did. Irrefutably the best defense. What do you do when you’re being abused? Let the world see what they do.

  10. Hecuba Says:

    Agree with luckynkl this is capitulation to Male Supremacy which is operating under the guise of ‘transgender rights’ (for men of course). Bindel has sold out to Male Supremacist system because she believes capitulation will accord her a small amount of kudos from those virulent women-hating men. Bindel is very familiar with her story and yet she falls into trap of appeasing Male Supremacist System and their male advocates.

    Bindel also knows her parroting male supremacist lies that ‘radfems act as if all women are good’ will earn her a few cookies and this will be used by men to justify their pseudo male right to dominate and control all women. I am of course referring to biologically born females not males who claim to be female.

    Challenging men and their Male Supremacist System has never earned any Radical Feminist vast amounts of money/prestige/male respect and yet Bindel claims to be simultaneously a radical feminist as well as appeasing/capitulating to Male Supremacist. One can’t have it both ways and the only winners will be men (again) of course.

    Being ‘nice’ to men will not accord women our fundamental human rights and yet this precisely what Bindel is doing. This video will be exploited by the trans anti-women activists and their female handmaidens to support claims that radical feminists are non-credible and can be easily manipulated.

    I no longer have any respect for Ms. Bindel but unfortunately her attitude is not an isolated incident since she has consistently put her career first and her feminist politics last.

  11. […] am only responsible for Pretendbians. I am not responsible for any other blog you mentioned in your interview.  Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. This entry was posted in […]

  12. FCM Says:

    she did post at the HUB when we first opened — a whole guest post too, not just a comment. not sure if she ever commented or not

  13. weirdward Says:

    Hmm…don’t think I’ve heard radical feminists running around saying all women are good, all men are bad. I think what feminists, esp. the radical kind say, is that all women are deserving of dignity and respect, even when (or especially when) they are saying things that challenge or disagree with what the dominant class of men are saying. Like, for example, women pointing out the harms of PIV, or lesbian women who say that they do not want to have sex with transgender women because they don’t see them as lesbians, or exited women who say that the porn & prostition industries are brutal and dehumanising.

    And I didn’t like Bindel’s point at the beginning about wanting to get to a stage where we don’t need to identify as lesbians. That seems to be moving towards erasure and invisibilising of harm the current system does, and will continue to do, to lesbians, regardless of whether we call ourselves lesbians or not. Many women are already abandoning ship as far as the word lesbian goes, usually in favour of either queer or transgender identification, which indeed is what Bindel herself does in the video when she claims she could be trans. Rather odd behaviour from someone who has called herself a lesbian feminist for years.

    Ha ha, and I liked the bit about how a parent knows that hormone blockers are the best treatment for her child, and until anyone has been in her place they can’t comment on her actions. But, you know, lesbians who claim not to like some 6 foot ‘woman’ with a bad sparkly dress and penis…sorry, that’s transphobia and no lesbian has the right to express her personal and private sexuality in such a way.

    It couldn’t be the ol’ patriarchal double standards, could it???

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      And I didn’t like Bindel’s point at the beginning about wanting to get to a stage where we don’t need to identify as lesbians. That seems to be moving towards erasure and invisibilising of harm the current system does, and will continue to do, to lesbians, regardless of whether we call ourselves lesbians or not.

      I get what she means there, and it is not about getting rid of ‘lesbian’ in the short-term, but in the long-term – post-compulsory-heterosexuality, because then it would not matter about sexual orientation. But we are a long way off that obviously. I doubt she meant replacing ‘lesbian’ with ‘queer’ and all the other current nonsense.

      • weirdward Says:

        Yes I agree Dave; I get she was saying that in a post-compulsory heterosexual world we wouldn’t have to get defined as ‘different’. But I think the problem I have is that a lot of younger people (mistakenly) think we are already approaching that point, which is in part why so many are eager to define themselves as queer or genderqueer or fluid sexuality or whatever. Like there’s also a school of thought that says if we all started identifying as androgynous then both sexism and homophobia would magically disappear. But of course, it would just make it more difficult to name discrimination. Maybe Julie Bindel wanted to expand more on the point and didn’t get the time or something. As it stands, I think the younger crowd is going to hear, lesbian is an outdated concept, let’s get rid of it. Or they will twist it to mean that for their own purposes.

  14. Clearly Julie Bindel is very very nervous and worrying about repercussions. Clearly that little upstart interviewing her knows that he has literally *everybody* on his side, and Bindel has got no-one, bar a few radfems.
    It’s so interesting how transpeople feel they must get rid of the last few dissenters. It’s a priority.
    Yes, Bindel sold out 😦

    • And that video was one of the most depressing things I’ve seen for a long time.

      • Sorry to comment spam, but I’ve come back to say, “Why on EARTH did she agree to an interview with a transwoman???”

        Rule number one is that the one who gets to frame the issues gains an immediate advantage. That transwoman chose all the topics and questions! Bindel could have said all she wanted to say by being interviewd by a neutral party, some random het guy or woman, for example. Or even a lesbian or radfem. The interview would still have been watched by all and sundry, but she would have been more relaxed and less likely to have been intimidated into selling out.

        And WHY, for the love of God is she wearing *pink* ?? This is not a trivial question to ask. Pink is the color of “deference”. I’m a raging heterosexual but I wouldn’t turn up to an interview with a transwoman in pink! I’d be in black from head to toe, ready for battle.[then again, maybe it’s easy to say that from behind a computer screen]

      • weirdward Says:

        I was wondering about the pink as well…definitely seemed an odd choice. On the one hand, claiming of trans identity, on the other hand, visually capitulating to a degree of conventional femininity. Trying to cover all bases?

        I did feel bad for Bindel watching the interview – she looked so nervous and uncomfortable. Indeed, why put yourself through that, knowing what would happen? Women are constantly being asked to ‘explain’ themselves…most of the time, it’s just a technique to get them to say *anything* so that it can immediately be used against them. Plus the time wasting factor. Keeps women running around in circles trying to justify everything they do (when they will be condemned no matter what) instead of just saying a big f-off.

      • re Says:

        pink is just a color- seems odd that it’s being genderized here

    • ” re Says:

      July 10, 2012 at 3:28 pm
      pink is just a color- seems odd that it’s being genderized here”

      Yah, but you only need to look at advertising, especially commercials targeting kids, to understand that pink is the color of femininity, which is the gender role foisted upon *all* females by society(whether we like it or not- no choice about it if you’re born a girl).
      Nobody lives in a vacuum.

      Maybe I am being a bit harsh (and hypocritical re. my cherryblossom gravatar), but I guess I’m just used to seeing Sheila Jeffreys purposely *not* doing gender. Jeffreys has set the bar very high; it’s hard to find someone as radical as her.

  15. doublevez Says:

    It was also an extremely unethical manner of questioning. Guess who watches Fox Network: Paris and his right-wing, conservative, gender essentialist ilk.

  16. SheilaG Says:

    I think Julie Bindel should have gone on the counterattack highlighting the trans attacks on her, and pushed back. But, again, I don’t know how worn down she was by all the trans abuse, and the fact that radfems never seem to have the huge numbers to form a guard and protection for people like Bindel who are out there.

    What if 1000 radfems could gather at an hour’s notice anywhere in a large urban area to defend whatever woman needs to be defended. We don’t seem able to assemble the sheer numbers needed to push back against trans attacks at radfem speeches and panel discussions.

    When I’ve seen trans diss radical feminist works on panel discussions, room fulls of clueless lesbians just sit there, and I am usually the only woman who does public battle with them. I get a little sick of the passive nature of lesbians who can’t even defend an ideology or stick up for other lesbians.

    Why waste time with interviews like this or women having to explain themselves to men? Never do this, it never works.

    Commenting on the color of women’s clothing isn’t very fair, in my opinion, and I didn’t even really notice what Bindel was wearing anyway.

    I generally like her writing and speeches, but this was too consiliatory to men. What’s with this “I could be trans…” nonsense, since what she is is non-submissive role playing behavior or a radical feminist indifference to jiving and shuffling that most women “perform” to the tune of male supremacy anyway.

    Not being a door mat is considered trans?

  17. ethicalequinox Says:

    It’s never a good idea to jump into a snake pit – which is exactly what Bindel did here, knowingly or not. The only way you can survive in one is to charm the snakes.

    I do wonder whether she had ulterior motives here, in appearing to adopt such a conciliatory tone in this interview. Time will tell, I suppose…

  18. ktsimilar Says:

    This has some peripheral relevance, I think. See link:
    Just a workflow application. But watch their video. This came to me on work-related reasons as a suggested tool for a project. I had to say, “I hate that fucking sexist video. Try again.” On the one hand they do have a tomboy in one of the groups (ugh, have the GIDers got hold of her yet?!) but this does nothing to conceal the overall pushing of male superiority and offensive gender stereotypes – and using KIDS to put it across.
    I was kinda disgusted.
    Meanwhile, Paris Lees is a dick. And Julie really doesn’t need to get involved with this, but, food for thought – after glitter bombs and worse, any public figure is gonna feel their neck on the block and wonder WTF comes next and will it be them. What’s the word? Terrorism. No one can be blamed for safety concerns really, sad as that obviously is…

  19. GallusMag Says:

    Posted by Suzan Cooke at WomanBornTranssexual:


    Christo-Fascist or Radical Feminist? What difference is there when the Anti-Trans* hatred and Bigotry is Identical
    07/10/2012 — Suzan

    I swear to Gaia I can’t tell the difference between the Phelps Klan and Galling Magus or what ever the person behind the troll name actually goes by.

    My friend, trans-activist Kelli Anne Busey put up a piece regarding an interview in Meta Magazine with Julie Bindel.

    Kelli writes:

    “Some will say she was simply on her best behaviour during the interview adapting to the changing social norms and I could see a cauldron of anger swirling just below the surface of this woman. But that being said, I would say I am in agreement with Bindel on a number of topics.

    We need to take a pluralistic view, accept that others disagree and find common ground.

    RadFems monolithic view of men bad, woman good is ridiculous but somehow, just somehow we need to make peace with Radfems. Lord knows I have tried and failed, maybe someone else would be successful.

    The only ones who will benefit directly from the Trans Radfem conflict are those who hate us and make no differentiation between cisgender and transsexuals, and believe it or not, some from within our own community who find satisfaction in the fanning the flame of the current conflagration.”

    Transsexual and transgender shouldn’t be expected to give in and compromise with the radical feminists any more than we should be expected to compromise with Focus on the Family.

    Expecting that is like expecting African-American people to compromise with the KKK.

    There is a piece by a Christo-Fascist from some sort of cult church that claims to represent Orthodox Anglicanism. The translation of the term Orthodox Anglican is: “We’re the kill the gays church. By the way, we broke from the real Anglican Church because they don’t believe in hating the queers.”


    Is there any real difference between this hate filled pile of shit and the hate filled pile of shit one finds on Gender Trender or Pretendbians?

    I’m Polish-American and I know the only compromise with Nazism grows out of the barrel of one gun or the other.

    When people hate you so much they advocate killing you or making it impossible for you to live no compromise is possible, only capitulation or suicide.

    I’m not into either.

    Radical Feminists are not feminists, they are a hateful bunch of bigots just like the Orthodox Anglicans and Focus on the Family. I actually find some of the shit they say to be even viler and more threatening than crap from Bryan Fischer or Porno Pete LaBabera.”

    Suzan is a scary violent dude.

      • ethicalequinox Says:

        What the hell? The sheer GALL of these people – having recently watched a documentary on the Nuremberg trials with the unedited footage of the liberation of the concentration camps, I don’t know how these delusional IDIOTS can write this shit without feeling sick to their stomachs.

      • RoseVerbena Says:

        More histrionic manipulation from the crazy fuckers in knock-off Chanel and size 14 heels?


        Yeah, a feminist woman telling them that they’re not welcome to invade our rape crisis centers or take showers with our 13-year-old daughters at the Y? That is EXACTLY like the systematic slaughter of the Jews, the Roma, Trade Unionists, Communists, gay men and lesbians, the disabled, etc. under the Nazi’s.

        The worst of these cultists are completely SHAMELESS.

        They’ll blame feminists for every drunk, misogynist, right-wing, homophobic MALE who attacks a “trans” person. Why not? We’re such an easy target for their rage.

      • Grackle Says:

        Yeah, well, I’m Jewish-American and I know that Suzan is an alarmist nut with no grasp on history and even less perspective.

        I’d also say that you don’t threaten to shoot people who disagree with you just to shut them up, but then I’m not an asshole who grew up believing that violence is an acceptable way to deal with your problems.

  20. […] About The Men?“  The piece was radical and amazing.  Late last night, I ran across this post over at Gender Trender.  It’s an interview of Juile Bindel by Paris Lee conducted earlier this year.  Apparently, […]

  21. Catherine Orian Says:

    I honestly thought this was a joke when I first started to watch it. I do think some of it looks like it might have been misleadingly edited, especially the bit where she says she could be transgender, which could conceivably be the introduction to a point about how the commonly-used definition of transgender is ridiculous. But other parts of the video are more difficult to explain… probably this is just wishful thinking on my part. It’s terribly sad.

  22. lydia Says:

    Thought you might be interested in this story. The usual–woman-pretending-to-be-a-man has a baby with an actual man, to whom she is married…. oh, how rad,.

  23. Chazz Says:

    Bindel’s been beaten, harassed and mind fucked into submission. It’s a version of Stockholm Syndrome.

  24. doublevez Says:

    Watched it, twice now. I think Julie is in a different place than we are and has to operate from there. Why she did the interview, well, I think that probably goes back to that “place”. Yes, she has to earn a living. I thought she was very deft at fending off certain questions that were very Foxy, and an intro to further attack. I will stop short of blaming her but I wish SHE had done the same.

  25. KittyBarber Says:

    I looked at an article she wrote in 2004 that she is (in part) now feeling so terribly bad about. I think it’s not only still appropriate and even funny, but right to the point–now, then, next week. What the hell, Julie.

    • Adrian Says:

      Some quality non-breathing wank: “While I agree that people who never breathe face the most oppression of all of us, your division of the world into a binary of Breathing and Non-Breathing people is very erasing to those of us with sleep apnea.”

      Oh my. I am certainly breathing here, large gulps of air in between howls of laughter. The skewer, it is sharpened to a fine, fine point over there. Thanks for amusing me this afternoon!

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      This is a thing of beauty, doublevez! “Sig” privilege: 4. People do not purposefully disrespect you by constantly saying that you are breathing and pointing to your chest whilst arguing that natural movements are a sign that you are lying and you are breathing


    • pegasusolson Says: is also a funny take-down of the nonsense tumblr ‘social justice’ supporters say.

      I see ‘Valerie’ Keefe, transplainer extraordinaire, has showed up at your link to argue, but the non-breather has made a brilliant response. 🙂

  26. LJ Says:

    I have stopped buying DIVA magazine becaus they employ Paris Lees. This person does not speak for gay (or bisexual) womb, i.e. DIVA’s supposed target audience. Paris is only writing for the trans or possibly “queer” audience, and she has her own magazine for that (METAMag). DIVA also has a straight woman writing for them – Rachel Shelley is of course lovely, but not a lesbian.

  27. RoseVerbena Says:

    My dream interview: Lees gets interviewed by GallusMag, and can’t worm out of answering, control the camera, edit out the good bits or in any way dissemble without adding inches to his nose.

    I’d buy TWO popcorns for that. Heck, I’d buy EVERYONE popcorn.

  28. Barbara Di Bari Visconti Says:

    Lees would never agree to be interviewed by Gallus Mag. Why did Bindel agree to be interviewed by Lees?

    • I know. I hate the dog-pile essence of wondering about Bindel agreeing to the interview, but it does make one wonder. I will be glad to see the day when all females, all females finally understand that the best method to deal with these males is to not communicate with them at all. There is no discourse to be had. The only discourse to be had is with other females, –the females, who currently side with trannies, –and that discourse is useless/hopeless if they feel that a trannie is watching, because then they will just show-off to prove their loyalty to males. There is no way in hell do I believe females (who knows/knew the reality of rape, impregnation, STDs, etc. at the hand of males) would still support these males if they were in a room with other females and knew for a fact their words were not being listened to or judged by males.

  29. Bev Jo Says:

    Really not a good idea to give such credibility to a female-hating man who wants us all dead so he and his male friends can take over the identity of “woman.”

    It was a terrible idea when Whoopi Goldberg interviewed the Nazi/KKK/Aryan Resistance founder Tom Metzger on her television talk show since doing that, as well as patting his arm affectionately, gave him an audience and credibility he otherwise didn’t have. Similarly, no feminist should give such support to trannies. Even if they are hoping to undermine the trans cult, it ends up being the opposite.

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