XY: Transgender in the next shower stall?

August 15, 2012

Better watch this one quick. This 2009 video archive of the 16×9 news program featuring the John Fulton case was only uploaded yesterday but trans are already trying to censor it and prevent it from being viewed- by reporting it to YouTube as “promoting hatred and violence” (!) :

See: ” A disgusting piece on trans women in women’s facilities. Please kill it with fire.”

Fulton was the owner of an Ontario women-only gym (which had only one open shower and change area) who was dragged before the Ontario Human Rights Commission three years ago by man with a penis, Lisa MacDonald- who insisted it was his human right to parade his dick into the open women’s shower. Fulton lost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees before MacDonald suddenly dropped his complaint. Since the Commission could not rule on the withdrawn complaint, Fulton had no resolution and no way to recoup his legal fees.

From Wikipedia:

Case against John Fulton

In 2006, a transgendered woman (now known as Lisa MacDonald) visited Downtown Health Club for Women in St. Catharines, Ontario and asked owner John Fulton for Membership. MacDonald explained that she was actually a pre-operative Male-to-Female transsexual who was in the process of undergoing as sex-change operation, but for the time being, still possessed male gentalia. Fulton explained his concern that with only one change room and shower room in the club, admitting this individual would have meant allowing a man to observe the other patrons—all female—in various stages of undress. Approximately one week later, the individual filed a human rights complaint with the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario (HRTO) alleging discrimination.[20]

Fulton, and his lawyer Andrew Roman, argued that the Ontario Human Rights Code specifically permits facilities to serve a single sex on the grounds of public decency, and ordains that such restrictions do not constitute illegal discrimination. They also argued that that admitting the complainant would violate the rights of club members to freedom of association under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Fulton also questioned how he was supposed to distinguish the applicant from a voyeur or an exhibitionist.[20]

Fulton stated that he received calls from his members threatening to quit if the transgendered individual was allowed to join before the sex-change operation was completed. Fulton also claimed that the OHRC told him he had to let the transgendered individual use the women’s facilities but refused to provide him with a clear answer on what his rights and the rights of his female clients were in this situation.[21][22] Fulton also stated he never denied membership to the applicant and that she was welcome to use club once the sex-change operation was completed.[23]

The case was scheduled for a hearing in late 2009. However, the individual then withdrew the complaint without explanation. As a result, Fulton was left with legal bills of roughly $150,000 and argued that he had been wrongly accused of being a discriminatory without being given a chance to respond. The Tribunal refused to compensate Fulton for any costs, stating that it lacked the authority to do so.[20] In an interview with the St. Catharines Standard, Fulton stated that “They put me through hell for three years and at the 11th hour, they dropped it. There really was no resolution … and my costs with this are huge.”[24]

In declining to provide award any costs to Fulton, The Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario’s Alternate Chair Kaye Joachim wrote that:

  • the HRTO had no authority to award costs;
  • no costs against could be awarded against the complainant because Alternate Chair Joachim ruled that there was no abuse the complaint process;
  • the complainant had “raised important and novel questions about the scope of the Code and its application to transgendered individuals.”;
  • Fulton and his lawyers “may have caused unnecessary legal costs by raising spurious preliminary issues,” including constitutional arguments that were later dropped;
  • Fulton party’s request that MacDonald produce her entire medical history was, in part, “completely irrelevant to the issues raised in the application.[24]

Fulton’s lawyer, Andrew Roman disargeed with Joachim’s comments, adding that “I’ll be taking steps to deal with that…The way the tribunal is set up now, the complainant is rewarded for taking a risk-free grab at a big bag of money. Roman claimed that at the mediation stage, the “typical payoff” is often around $20,000 and that if a person “can’t work out a settlement at mediation, you go to a hearing and have to pay many times that.”[24] Fulton also claimed that the Commission pushed him to pay MacDonald, stating that “They told me that I had to pay her legal fees, write a letter of apology admitting guilt and I could make it go away,” but he refused, stating that ” I didn’t know what to do and I wanted … a tribunal decision. I’m stubborn.” He also stated that “They’re picking on the wrong guy. The OHRC needs to be rejigged … before other people end up being in a situation where they feel like they’re being extorted.”[25]

Karen Selick, the litigation director for the Canadian Constitution Foundation[26] which supported Mr. Fulton, sharply criticized the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario (HRTO) and the process by which it handles complaints, writing in the National Post that:

“For complainants, the process is virtually risk-free. It costs them nothing to file a complaint, and the tribunal mediator will help explain the shakedown. If they want some legal help filing their complaint, they can get it gratis, at the taxpayer-funded Human Rights Legal Support Centre. And they never have to risk paying costs, no matter how ill-conceived or unjustified their complaint was. Heads, the complainant wins; tails, the accused loses.”[20]

In February 2009, Afroze Edwards, a spokeswoman for the Ontario Human Rights Commission (OHRC) expressed support for the applicant, arguing that:

“The [Ontario Human Rights] code does not distinguish between transsexuals who are at different stages of transition.. I think the important thing to remember there is how they identify themselves; what their sense is, that they are living as a man or living as a woman. Regardless of whether they’re preop or postop, it’s their lived gender that’s important.”[27]

——————————————————————————[end wiki]

Interestingly, Kristen Worley- a male athlete and genderist who occupies a female slot in women’s cyclist rankings despite his male body – is interviewed in the program and comes out AGAINST the rights of males to inflict their penises on females in gym showers and change rooms.

Like I said: Watch it while you can!

15 Responses to “XY: Transgender in the next shower stall?”

  1. feral opera company Says:

    Kristen Worley is presented as the “reasonable” trans, but he’s working with some Canadian ethics committee on sports. It’s not very ethical for him to compete with women cyclists. How can someone who cheats openly give good advice to an ethics committee? And women who are willing to race against him in a “women’s” race show less understanding of this issue, than the women who threatened to quit the gym.


  2. omg they’re talking about “brain gender?” FUCK THIS SHIT!

  3. KittyBarber Says:

    Yeah, my BRAIN is female…my body is male…ok so, I will be a female athlete with this huge body and win all the races! Intersex, my ass. Unhappy? No doubt. So fix it with dope, a scalpel, and a ponytail! Ta da! I a woman now!

    Oh, oh Canada. You’re trying so hard to do the right thing, you’ve bent over backwards so far that your head is vanishing up your own butt.

  4. doublevez Says:

    Very angry, but also not able to afford a gym fee because female all my life.

  5. DaveSquirrel Says:

    It seems that the Canadian M2Ts keep bringing this to the HRC in the hopes of scoring an out-of-court settlement (presumably for GRS). The US ones seem to opt for prison in the hopes of scoring free GRS.

    As for the M2T cyclist, it is outrageous that the male-born get to compete in the female sports. And LOL, he called himself “heterosexual” (@3:25), so even he doesn’t really believe his jenduh delusion fully.

  6. Ashland Avenue Says:

    So as the gym owner pointed out, where do the privacy rights of truly female members of the gym come into play? I have yet to see any trans blogger answer this, or even address it. They just dance around the topic, never addressing the nitty-gritty. They’re also all too busy pissing and moaning about being discriminated against to even begin to see this situation from a woman’s point of view.

    It is clear: trans people loathe born women. I did not come to this conclusion on my own; trans people, through their own words and actions over the last several years, first made me suspicious and then proved it to me. I did not even begin to think this many years ago, as trans people started becoming more public. I was sympathetic and empathetic toward them, considering them allies. But as the years wore on, as their misogyny and bullying tactics grew more egregious, it became impossible to deny. Trans people hate born women. I guess I should be grateful for them at least making their true colors crystal clear, huh?

  7. Kira Says:

    Ashland,

    I’ll answer your question and add a few thoughts as well…
    First off, the women who use that gym have every right to expect complete privacy. The person in question never should have sought membership when they were still pre-op. I doubt they ever really planned on joining in the first place. What this is about is nothing more than an an unethical individual hoping for a quick payday at the expense of someone else. It happens all the time unfortunately.
    What made it a story was the magic word “transgender.” If not for that, this story would never have had legs.
    I know this isn’t what people want to hear, but the vast majority of transgender people in the world have no desire to “usurp” anyone’s space. Someone who is pre-op is already self-conscience of their position as “other” in society and will try to avoid situations that will shine a spot light on that fact. They don’t want to force their way into places where they are unwanted, all they want is to live their lives in peace just like everyone else.

    I know it is too easy to take a situation and try and use it to paint any and all who might share some trait with the protagonist with the same brush. The thing is… they are the exception, not the rule and many transgender people greatly resent being lumped together unjustly in this way.
    If you want to be angry with someone, be angry with the person who brought the complaint, they deserve it, but please leave the rest of us out of it.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      Kira, I will not “leave the rest of (you) out of it.” Why? Because you’re partly to blame. If you bothered to read other posts at this site at all, you’d see that contrary to what you say there is a sizable faction of trans people who not only believe as the complainant in this case does, but behave accordingly. And then some. For Pete’s sake, just look at the next post up! Look, in the comments section, at the list that GallusMag accrued of the bullying (to say the very least) tactics that trans people have used against anyone who even begins to question their stances or actions. If you think that what the trans people in any of those situations are doing is wrong, why are you not speaking up? Why do we never see any contradictory posts from you or other trans people like you, presenting another point of view from a fellow trans person to these jerks? I know why: because it’s easier to come here and lecture us instead. To lecture and scold women-born-women. I see right through your misogyny…and your cowardice.

      “I know it is too easy to take a situation and try and use it to paint any and all who might share some trait with the protagonist with the same brush.” Maybe the people you deal with on a regular basis (or even yourself?) are that simpleminded, but I am not. I resent the implication that I am, and your condescension that comes through loud and clear. I know exactly with whom to be angry, thanks. They have made themselves quite clear to me, through words and actions over the course of several years. So sorry (well, not really) that that’s offended your delicate sensibilities, but there it is.

    • doublevez Says:

      This has nothing to do with behaviour. Males can never be female or women, no matter what they have added on or removed, what they wear, or what piece of paper they bully society into giving them, how they “feel” or what toys they preferred when they were four They are male. Stop appropriating female, or woman, stop erasing me, stop hanging around telling us how nice you are. Frankly don’t give a shit. So tired of this.

  8. Bev Jo Says:

    Good for John Fulton to understand why women would not feel safe with Mr. MacDonald in his gym. But what a fucking travesty that he had to pay such a price because of the trans cult bullying. They are trying to put him out of business which is quite a warning to anyone else saying no to them. How dare women not want men ogling them?

    And the mind-fuck continues about these men “are now women.”

    The issue really is simple: Some men have figured out a clever way to have access to look at naked, vulnerable women. They will never be women, and it shows on so many levels.

    Great, Kitty! Yes, Doublevez, I too can’t afford a gym fee. And yes, Ashland, the trannies absolutely hate women — no sympathy or empathy for what women go through. They operate like sociopaths. No compassion at all. Which is really going as far into the male spectrum as possible since women are the most compassionate of humans.

    Fantastic post, Gallus!!!


    • Yes it makes sense to any human being not wrapped up in the trans brainwashing that women would not want a man– penis or no penis, lipstick or no lipstick– near them when they just want to chill out and get changed in peace at the gym.

  9. Manna Says:

    Just…**headdesk** Is there any way of donating to this poor bloke to help towards his $150k? Like set up a fund? I have to admit I’m typing from Britain, where the transcultishness hasn’t quite got so bad, but it’s happening, slowly… Kudos to this gym owner for actually standing up for, y’know, the majority of women – do the lawmakers truly believe that one whiny man’s rights outweigh those of a hundredish born women? Talk about make privilege…

  10. Katie grundle Says:

    I’m a trans woman. I go to a gym and use the ladies change room. But never completely undress or use the shower. It’s unfair for the other women’s to see my ugly part! I don’t even want to see it. If I get surgery, then no problem. Res

  11. Katie grundle Says:

    I’m a trans woman. I go to a gym and use the ladies change room. But never completely undress or use the shower. It’s unfair for the other women’s to see my ugly part! I don’t even want to see it. If I get surgery, then no problem. Respect the other women. Don’t go up against the system just because you can.

    Katie.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: