4 years on T: Stopping Testosterone

November 21, 2012

“I’m trying to just get off of it at this point. And my reason for that is because I am not wanting any more changes than I’ve already had. I think the changes that I did have snuck up on me pretty quickly and I hadn’t really thought about what it meant to pass at that point. And now I do pass. And I’m still at a crossroads with that in terms of it being something that I am comfortable with, and it being something that sort of negates an old identity that I am comfortable with that I still feel like I am. Like I still very much feel like a dyke. And so it’s hard being read as a straight white male. It’s got its privileges but it’s also- it’s been hard for me to relate to people just because – I look a little different now. And I think a lot of that was because I had insecurity about being butch enough in the queer scene and also I feel like a lot of people were taking T and I was- I wanted to fit in, so I took T too.”

30 Responses to “4 years on T: Stopping Testosterone”

  1. Bev Jo Says:

    Oh Gallus, this is so sad. I am so glad that she is speaking out and wanting to stop, but I hate to think what the testosterone has done to her health and mind. Maybe she can help other women though….

    • 1899fcbarcelona Says:

      I wonder this too. Growing up my younger sister used to wear my clothes all the time and even played with our brothers’ toys. I’m glad our folks didn’t drag my little sis into a gender clinic just because she was playing with a toy truck. I’m also glad our folks didn’t drag my little bro into a gender clinic for wearing a pink shirt!

  2. Beth Says:

    Drastically off-topic, but I thought I’d bring it to your attention.


    And transgender people never hurt women

    • Becky Green Says:

      Sickening story. It seems misogyny is frighteningly common among autogynephiles. I wonder if it’s an essential ingredient in the condition’s formation, perhaps for a portion of the men??

      From the article:
      “The documents reportedly stated Perry suffers from a gender psychosis disorder and does not like females.”

      • Marie-France Lesage Says:

        One of the (many) things that upsets me about creatures like Perry is that their very MALE crimes get moved into the “female perpetrator” column as soon as they start their “transition”:

        “Perry has an extensive criminal history in Washington reaching back to the 70s, with charges ranging from reckless endangerment to second-degree assault. She also had federal charges brought against her in 1988. Authorities say she had a pipe bomb, 49 firearms and 20,000 rounds of ammunition in this case. The federal government charged her again in 1994 for additional firearms and ammunition.”

        Anyone with a morsel of common sense can SEE from that list that this serial criminal is very much MALE. He didn’t even “transition” until 2000. Why should women be burdened with the LIE that this dude’s crimes from the 1970’s, 1980’s and 1990’s were perpetrated by “a woman”?!? (Or any crimes he commits now, for that matter.)

        If he’s found guilty of killing three other “trans” males, will his murders be counted against women in the FBI statistics that year?

        What’s next? Claiming that Richard Speck’s victims were murdered by “a woman” just because he started taking estrogen and wearing women’s underwear and makeup years later in prison?

        This is a disgusting trend towards slandering womenkind for the filthy, violent crimes perpetrated by deranged, genderist males.

      • Marie-France Lesage Says:

        Yikes, sorry! I glanced through the article before I wrote my post above and just now went back to watch the news video. I misunderstood the three victims to be “trans” prostitutes, not actual females. My mistake.

  3. (Hi I’m Bruce Lilly I have a new twitter account btw.)

    So she still “feels” like a lesbian and is “post op”? I really wonder if there are any lesbians who are still attracted to her I mean despite of everything the T and surgery did to her body. It’s a serious question because lesbians is about loving females but what if a woman changed her body to look more like a man and still considers herself as lesbian?

  4. BadDyke Says:

    All very sad. ‘Exploring gender’ by means of surgery and hormones (since she seems to have dropped the BEING a dude side of things) is just a version of extreme body modifcation (like having implanted horns or whatnot), except that the PROBLEM with ‘exploring’ in this way is that if you have mods that make you look somewhat more like a dude, then surprise, people will MISTAKE you for a straight man, even if you actually are a dyke. What did you EXPECT?

    I mean really, worried about not being ‘butch’ enough on the queer scene (which sounds like the gay male definition of butch of course), and everyone else was doing it (!!!!). Sounds like the most trivial and ridiculous reason EVER for getting healthy bits of your body lopped off and doing goodness knows what (well, she didn’t really seem to appreciate what it WAS going to do to her!) to your metabolism by taking T.

    O, but you can’t say you REGRETTED it, not ever (because then you’d have to admit what a fuck-up you’ve made and that you CAN’T stick bits back on again).

    Just seems, yet again, that there is almost NOTHING positive to be said about being a woman and being a dyke, so that ANYTHING else (chops bits off, mess about with hormones) which gets you away from that is okay.

    Same ole trans language of comfort and identity — rather than the actual truth of you’re a female in the patriarchy, so that is never going to be comfortable (short of euthanasia). You can’t make it all go away with this game of wishful thinking and by believing the identity lies.

    • Adrian Says:

      I found it interesting that she apparently never got a hysterectomy – it seems for many F2T who DO fully buy into the “I’m a man inside” thing all the way, that’s one of the first things they want to do, so if those people went off T then they’d have no hormones coming in, I guess.

      Also she never changed her gender marker. So yeah, kinda like extreme bodymods.

      Reading around various F2T blogs you can find lots of people who say they want to take T for a short period of time, who DO claim fully the “I’m a man inside” business, but it’s clear that they have this idealized version of an androgynous teenager or young twenties image they’re aiming for. Ages ago someone wrote that it’s almost like they’re aiming to look like certain anime characters. Anyway, they go on T and then find out that hey, guess what? You will “masculinize” in whatever way men in YOUR FAMILY do it, so if that means you end up a short balding fat guy with major back hair, that’s your fate.

      What with the “transtrender” fad happening now, so many of them are very young (teens and 20’s) and they are so thrilled to get on T and “pass” but the main reason (IMHO) they’re “passing” is that they’re so young, in fact they look like barely pubescent boys. What happens at 40, or 50? After that many years on? Time will tell, I suppose. I suspect quite a few will want to go back and it will be too late.

      Ten years ago everyone thought the high school kid with the 63mm huge white lip plate was cool too.

  5. BadDyke Says:

    Just to clarify, this wasn’t meant as any personal attack on this woman herself, just makes me want to cry when I think about what is going on that women can get so LOST to end up at places like this.

  6. FeistyAmazon Says:

    So many of these young ones are going to truly regret what they did to their bodies those years on ‘T’, and of course, like she mentions, the pressure to go FTM and do the hormones and surgeries by their peers, and that Butch is NOT enough….she doesn’t seem all that Butch to me in the first place. And I’ve heard that it is especially bad healthwise going on ‘T’ without the removal of the ovaries or hysterectomy, so you have the female cycle and male cycle interacting with one another…..I don’t know why we can’t get them to see that this is in the long run a SERIOUS health issue on bio female bodies putting these substances into their bodies, and/or submitting to these life altering surgeries as well…I hope she finds her way back to Dyke!

    • Adrian Says:

      I definitely wonder about the interaction of the two hormones. I always thought getting rid of your original gonads was one of the first goals of going trans*, so at least they’re not “taking you in the wrong direction.” Of course most people can’t do that as the first step, so for a while they’re all on “double hormones” (at least F2T, seems M2T can get castrated easier and so do it earlier) and the T stops your period, but eventually people would want to have the hysterectomy. I also hope the best for the woman in the video.

      Just reading around though it seems that yeah there’s a huge pressure to go FTM now. Aside from direct pressure from peers it’s heartbreaking to see how many posts there are from young girls who are encountering just horrific gender policing from their parents, along the lines of being forbidden to not shave their legs or get short haircuts or wear “men’s” T-shirts or “don’t use that boyish wallet, you look like a lesbian” (read that one just today!) or told they have to “dress cuter, you look like a boy” (again today!) or can’t wear pants… and so in the fact of that they assume that they must be FTM, and start pursuing transition even while being open about the fact that actually they have doubts.

      …and I just want to scream, you know, you can have hairy legs and wear pants and have short hair and shop 100% in the men’s department right down to the undies and STILL BE A WOMAN. Crazy thing is given the ages of the posters (high school, early college) I realize their parents are MY AGE. What on earth is going on?

  7. SheilaG Says:

    Really, you can have short hair, you don’t have to shave any hair off your body, you can wear pants all the time, starched white shirts, lovely vests of all colors, buy whatever clothes you like.
    You can be completely happy in your butch dyke self, and really, life just goes on.

    So young women think they can’t be butch dykes, and can’t dress the way they want? Honestly, just do it, it really isn’t that big a deal.

    And the irony is, there is so much lesbian visibility everywhere, and yet these deluded kids choose to take t- etc. Geez how sad, the irony being that I see butch dykes all over the place, even at the store where I picked up my Thanksgiving turkey today— a very handsome butch– very short hair, salt and pepper, elegant blue jeans and shirt— we just looked across the cash register at each other and smiled.

    These kids are being robbed of a wonderful lesbian feminist life, the satisfaction of competely and utterly being true to your lesbian self. But in the past, I really had to stand my ground, I had to be an individual against the heteronormative hurd out there. We did have a radical lesbian feminist movement to break down all the laws that said women couldn’t wear pants to begin with— it was a big political battle to achieve that.

    Drugs have never been the answer.

  8. It really upsets me that they lose their hair and go bald. On top of all the other reasons they hate us, men HATE women for the fact nature lets us keep our hair– because it makes it so obvious that women’s bodies are just better, (biologically more resiliatn) in so many ways. And quelle surprise, men have invented a pill that they dose women with, and a side effect is that they lose their hair. I just don’t believe it!

    At least she hasn’t had a hysterectomy. THat should help her body’s recovery.

    • Elin Says:

      Lol I also wanted to say something along those lines in reply to Adrians comment about the age of the transitioners.

      I am bisexually oriented and I can like women over 50 but for men the limit is 35 or something. (Outliers excluded.) After that age, men get bald. AND fat. No, that’s not fat-shaming women here; men gain the ugly fat: only around the belly. Women will generally also get slightly more fat, but: the fat is evenly distributed, so it still looks nice. Big difference.

      Also men try to shame women for getting gray (grey?) hair all the time. Well excuse me dude but you get bald. It’s so obvious, the insecurity, haha. See those withered flowers in that vase? They lived the short and fast life, then they died because of redundancy. Just like you.

      But baldness isn’t shown in TV shows is it? For men. They always magically retain their hair. I think this is a huge thing. In fact the first way I was happy to be a woman was by the thought of retaining my hair.

      We should warn the F2Ts about the baldness very much. Not only because they’re just vain kids after all, but also because like you say it is a deep thing of biological superiority.

      The big patriarchical reversal factory tries to frame women as the ones who wither first but it’s obviously the men.
      Even gay men don’t like old men (hetero women obviously never did except for teh moneyz), while even hetero men actually quite often like old women, and women of course even more so. Hell, even gay men kind of like old women, platonically.

      Also, how the hell could one even explain evolution without this mindset. It’s obvious the men are just there for insuring the variety of the gene pool. Only there for procreation, and 80% of them even suck at that because they are the useless part of the randomness in the gene-pool variation. Now, I am a kind person, and I would appreciate these marginalized men anyway as workers doing heavy lifting etc. But seriously – nobody needs any of the men anymore after their age of 30, when a woman has selected the for her most useful one’s sperm already if that existed ( a woman always selects the most genetically different man from herself, to get optimal offspring – a woman can sense that, a man not (it’s proven), so the woman NEEDS to select the man). And after that age of 30, mens muscles rapidly deteriorate too, so they become useless, slowly fade away, become quite dumb (and their sperm deteriorates rapidly too, it’s nowaways all in the scientific papers) , while the women stay fit with their needed life-saving and -raising properties.

      Oh yeah this is also why a 100% heterosexual orientation in females can’t possibly exist. It would be counter-evolutionary to keep on and on and on producing offspring, just to get some pleasure. Duh. Most likely, the females enjoyed themselves pretty well with each other, and occassionally one hopped on a man when some good one (in terms of offspring) for her came along. After all men didn’t know crap about procreation for way more than 3000 years. So this kind of mindset is what we’re evolved upon, despite all propaganda to the contrary.

  9. Marie-France Lesage Says:

    My male “trans” stalker has had serious health complications from taking estrogen while he still has intact male gonads.

    He mentioned once that “every doctor” he saw for his health issues “blamed the estrogen and told him to stop” — except the enabling doctor at his gender mill, who kept prescribing it.

    I guess if you reject your own biological sex then rejecting the health advice of a whole raft of doctors is easy (non-enabling doctors who all tell you the same thing: stop taking estrogen on top of your body’s testosterone, you nit-wit!)

  10. Bev Jo Says:

    It’s important to remember that many of the women who are wanting to be men are not Lesbians and are not Butch. Many are bisexual or het Fem women who want to be with gay men or play out some fetish fantasy. I’ve heard several who are performers sing or read poetry and they come across as incredibly narcissistic. For those with Lesbian lovers, what about their lovers? The “Sex Change Hospital” TV series, which is basically an ad for a trannie surgeon and the hospital, had a sad story of a Lesbian whose life saving and pension were disappearing into her lover’s next surgery to have even larger plastic “testicles” installed. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so pitiful.

    What I see where I live of who has “transtitioned” with surgery and testosterone are young Fems who seem very Lesbian-hating (refuse to make eye contact) or older women who quickly look much older than they would otherwise, and not in a healthy way — balding and basically shrivelling up.

    I really hope more have this woman’s courage and can reach these women….

    • Adrian Says:

      Absolutely, there are hordes of them – and they play the “I should be at the center of all movements as the most oppressed evar” because of course they’re both trans* AND gay.

      Meanwhile they are endlessly fetishizing a certain image of gay male culture and “camp” (misogyny and all) while wanting to play the “femme gay man” image, because somehow it’s way more subversive (and thus valued, in their circles) to wear feminine-coded costume and date men while claiming to BE men “inside” (rather than just boring ol’ heterosexual vanilla women, as they’d put it). Speaking of “vanilla,” that same group seems to be very into porn and bdsm as yet more ways to be transgressive. And of course they are endlessly performatively dismissive of straight people, “cis people,” you name it, without seeming to recognize the irony of a woman who dates men endlessly ranting about being completely unable to understand straight people. It’s as if the act of transgressing boundaries has itself become the biggest fetish. But if you mention biology at all you’re a hater!

      Or maybe I’m just cynical.

      • Marie-France Lesage Says:

        “Or maybe I’m just cynical.”

        Nope. You nailed it. To the wall.

        It’s the new way to be a “fag hag”, Goddess help us all.

        They’re not just longing for their gay male friend’s body — they’re demanding his body as their right as “real gay men” under all that theatrically “femme” crap and gender-pretzel-ism.

        To me most of them seem VERY young, VERY confused, VERY steeped in self-loathing and…well…pathetic.

        Their convoluted sexual narratives seem to be cobbled together from a thousand porn scenes, not derived from an authentic sexual drive and certainly not welling up from a loving heart.

        Do these young women even feel that they’re allowed to have loving hearts anymore? Or are they so busy with the latex, leather, hair extensions, multi-colored eye-lashes, leashes, feathers, piercings, tattoos, porn-wear and what-not that they haven’t quietly listened to their hearts…well…ever?

  11. EqualRightsAndProtection Says:

    I’m struck by this trans’ discussion of regret. He rambles for a while, and then gets to the point around 11:00 min into the video.

    I’ve seen dozens of these now. And I’m struck by a common theme among many is the happier and more peaceful look of the faces before transition to the haunted and unhappy look after. Can you ever make peace with your body if you go to war with it cutting bits off and bludgeoning it into submission with chemicals? I think there’s some joy at passing, but many don’t pass very well. And in the video that I’ve found, he even admits that he’ll never be male. Even with all the surgeries in the world, he’ll never truly be male.

    • That was a tear-jerker EqualRights 😦 Especially a minute earlier the 10:00 min point

    • Do you know what struck me watching that? As “enlightened” as I am, as “radical” as I am, my social conditioning means that it’s very easy for me to empathise with the sadness of a man. The signals that my brain was receiving as I watched that vid were telling me this person was male, and therefore human.
      Maybe it’s because the suffering of women is literally everwhere, all the time, that you dull yourself to it and get used to it, so it has less impact when you see it. Or maybe we’re all (male and female) conditioned to regard men’s suffering as real, and women’s suffering as less relevant. Obviously I don’t think that at all, otherwise I wouldn’t hold the views I do, but the first, gut reaction, was “oh, pooooor thing”. Whereas someone I perceive as a woman has to have gone through something more serious before that “poor thing” trigger goes off.(But let me tell you, I NEVER perceive transwomen as women, EVER. They ALWAYS send “male” signals to my brain. Which is strange, because F2M *do* appear male to me. Is it that F2M basically pass a lot better?)

      • Adrian Says:

        I think there is a segment of F2T that do, in fact, pass better. Particularly people who after going on T start growing significant amounts of facial hair, because at least where I’m from it’s just Not Done for women to have full on beards (though I have to admit that in middle age I’m growing quite the few little chin hairs) so that reads as “male.”

        In some ways it seems T is the one way gateway. We all start essentially “femmy” as far as the face and bone structures go, and then in male puberty T kicks in for the men and they get the distinctive features of adult males (face, shoulders widening, etc). If a woman takes T, she can have a “male puberty” of sorts and her face will change – notice there is no “facial masculinization surgery” ever talked about. Her voice will deepen, facial hair will maybe happen. At that point, yeah, they read “male” from a casual social distance, and as far as the chest goes, if they have a competent person do the breast reductions it CAN look ok, or even if not, when wearing a shirt it looks “normal.” And of course no one in the office is looking downstairs (that’s the part that never passes in any pictures I’ve ever seen). If she was tall just naturally, that also helps.

        All this can take quite a while though – there’s people years on T who still don’t pass. For whatever reason in some people it just doesn’t seem to really take.

        Something else too – if you look around the sites where young F2T (teens and early 20’s) post, many of them are “before T” or “pre-anything” and desperately hoping to pass, similarly there are people recently (a year or so maybe) on T and similarly hoping to pass, and if they wear baggy clothes and cultivate an attitude (in still pics – I suspect video is completely different) they SORT of halfway pass, but the key is, they’re young, and they still look far younger than their ages. So a 20 year old will “pass” but look 15, meaning, pre-puberty.

        Heck, I’m not trans* at all, but when I was younger people would sometimes think I was a prepubescent boy rather than a late 20’s woman. Now that I have grey hair, more shape and some wrinkles, people just get confused 🙂

        If someone goes F2T and then regrets, AND they did in fact manage to pass, it has got to be one hard road back, because those changes don’t reverse themselves as far as I know, with the exception of maybe some of the male pattern baldness. You start growing a beard, it’s there unless you get electrolysis like the M2T have to do. You will have the man-brow and a deep voice.

        On the other hand for the ones where the T just doesn’t seem to bring much changes, they can satisfy themselves while young because they sort of pass (but get read as extremely young) but when they hit middle age and their hair goes grey and they start getting wrinkles, they won’t be passing anymore.

      • 'moose' Says:

        That’s interesting. I generally have the opposite reaction, having much more empathy for females. Also I’ve watched many women become F2T over the years and so am very ‘skilled’ at being able to tell they’re female. Of course, M2T are super-obvious for the most part! Testosterone does indeed make it easy for girls/women to ‘pass’ as some kind of male to the majority of the population, even with no other ‘treatment.’

      • BadDyke Says:

        That was a really insightful comment there, and one that I’m going to have to think some more about!

    • BadDyke Says:

      “I’m struck by this trans’ discussion of regret. He rambles for a while………”

      With appreciation of the irony of it, she is SHE. Not just because she doesn’t seem to ‘identify as’ a man, or claim she is, but because she is (and always will be) female.

      The urge to transgress, is, I think, a desperate search for an INDIVIDUAL escape from the horrors of being female and a woman under patriarchy. You look and see what is happening to the ‘ordinary’ women, and think (since a political solution seems like a desperate pipe-dream) that YOU individually can escape from their situation by setting yourself aside from them — either by porn/BDSM/gender/surgery/hormones whatever. Anything that sets you aside from the ordinary women.

      • God that’s so true, that women in BDSM and porn also believe that they’re setting themselves apart from “ordinary” “run of the mill” women. I remember that BDSMers hated that book “Fifty Shades of Grey” because it signalled that BDSM was becoming somewhat mainstream, therefore they were losing their “specialness” as they saw it. BDSM, trans, it’s all about temporary escapism, rather than freeing women as a class.

  12. Becky Green Says:

    ‘Just remove your breasts, take some T and you’ll be ushered up a few rungs of the social hierarchy. You won’t have to be one of those lesser beings, a female, anymore.’ (Ugh!!)

    Trans people are some of the most sexist and regressive people on the planet. They are stuck in a 1950’s mindset.

  13. Bev Jo Says:

    I agree, Bad Dyke and Becky! Yes, this is a woman, clearly. The reasons I’ve heard for “transitioning” are “I want better jobs and more chicks.” “I don’t want to be an old woman.” And of course, the wanting to be with gay men.

    Definitely an increase in privilege, but the rest of it illusion.

  14. Becky Green Says:

    Here are some disturbing motivations for transitioning written by a transman in a post found on Dirt’s blog. It’s a disgusting read.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: