Homophobia and Racism at core of Trans criticism of Suzanne Moore

January 16, 2013

Dirt at “The Dirt From Dirt” posted a brilliant dissection of the racism and homophobia at the core of transgender attack (read death threats and harassment) of feminist Suzanne Moore’s use of the term “Brazillian Transsexual” -specifically her comment that sparked the transgender death threats, etc. against Moore: ““We are angry with ourselves for not being happier, not being loved properly and not having the ideal body shape – that of a Brazilian transsexual.”

 

Dirt parses the other (non-feminist) venues that have used the same phrase without objection from the feminist-targeting trans politic, and breaks down the demographic – the white racist heterosexual homophobic autogynephile- behind the recent attacks against feminist speech. In short, the same demographic that is always at the core of attacks against feminists vis a vis “gender”.

Dirt argues compellingly that the majority of male transgenders who are privileged white heterosexual male autogynephilles (men for whom embodying the subordinate sex-role stereotypes inflicted on females is an erotic act) are in conflict with the minority of male transgenders who are gay males- largely impoverished non-whites- who adopt transgenderism as a means of survival in a homophobic world.

Homosexual Male - Janet Mock on NBC News

Homosexual Male – Janet Mock on NBC News

Homosexual male transgenders objectively exhibit “feminine” characteristics from  an early age and adopt female personas because they are easy for them to adopt, and increase social functionality and success in a homophobic culture, in stark contrast to the heterosexual male transgender, who exhibits no objective gender-noncompliance in childhood but begins sexualized fetishistic crossdressing at puberty and for whom transgenderism or “autogynephillia” is a sexual orientation. See transvestic fetishism. This is the distinct difference between homosexual and autogynephillic male transgenders and Dirt outlines the ways privileged white heterosexual fetishists colonize and exploit the oppression of impoverished non-white homosexual transgenders to advance a heterosexual white male political agenda.

Heterosexual Male

Heterosexual Male

Dirt is calling bullshit on hetero white male exploitation of homosexuals, people of color, and the women’s liberation movement in the forwarding of a male-supremacist colonizing political platform.

From Dirt:

“There is a conspicuous jealously and homophobia by the majority of trans males aka Mtfs whenever reminded of trans males who pass (perform for their own internal male gaze) better than they. Especially males requiring less drugs and surgeries with which to do so. Those males make up the few percent of trans males who are homosexual. Males who seek transition, unlike your 90+ percent of hetero male transitioners who transition seeking the ultimate fetishist’s high, transition instead because of his pathological homophobia. These gay males, do not have to lie to their “gender specialists” about their attractions or their feelings of believing they “always felt like girls”. Many gay trans males formed close relationships with females their age when young and were allowed into early female spaces, experiences your classic autogynephile wasn’t at all privy to.”

“Not unlike your typical straight male homophobe, hetero trans males are equally homophobic and then some! But theirs is a homophobia coupled with extreme jealousy. That’s not to say they wont use gay trans males for their own political agendas whenever one is beaten or murdered. But outside of that, these men HATE gay men, period! Sadly the gay trans male is usually a minority, he doesn’t have the white privilege and power commanded by the white straight Trans politic. He usually has to put himself into danger if he feels compelled to transition. Dangers from prostituting himself to raise monies for transition, including frequenting life threatening Pump Parties.”

Read more here: http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2013/01/not-seeing-lavender-suzanne-moore-and.html

I have to say that 99.9% of men who attack feminism and women and lesbians are of the heterosexual male variety. Many (most?) transgender males from the gay community have agreed with the posts here on GenderTrender. I have never had a homosexual type male transgender harass or threaten me in the years I have hosted this blog. They do not attack feminists, they do not fight against female-only spaces, etc. It is only the heterosexual male transgenders who seek sexual access to females who issue death threats, propose corrective rape of lesbians, proclaim themselves “actually female” or “female brained” or fake intersexed. Those who go on rage-fueled rampages against any female who speaks out against sex-roles = heterosexual.

Kudos to Dirt for calling bullshit on privileged straight white male exploitation of the travails suffered by the homosexual, often non-white, impoverished men whose names, lives, and struggles are co-opted to advance an absurd female-hating exploitative and privileged hetero white male political agenda.

71 Responses to “Homophobia and Racism at core of Trans criticism of Suzanne Moore”

  1. KittyBarber Says:

    Dirt did it again. As angry as she makes me from time to time, I have to admit that this is the analysis that has eluded me. It makes a lot of sense, and fits neatly with the reality I see around me.
    Now if the rest of the LGBTQWERTY can come to terms with this, and stop supporting the anti-feminist, woman-hating auto-gynephiliacs (?) we may get somewhere.

  2. Marie-France Lesage Says:

    This has been my experience, too.

    Gay male “trans” = usually OK to be around and relatively harmless to women.

    Straight male “trans” = a legion of scary, creepy, stalker-dudes with an anti-female socio-political agenda fueled by intense jealousy (rage that women as a class are “prettier” than they will ever be), infantile rage at women’s autonomy (rage at their inability to control women) and fetid sexual fetishes (seeing sex as something one does to objects, rather than in relationships with fully autonomous human beings who have to be courted, nurtured and delighted into willing participation in an on-going sexual relationship.)

  3. doublevez Says:

    I think native women were the first to use this idea of colonialsm of women by white culture, and extend it to prostituted women, see Cherry Smiley, Trisha Baptie and Lee Lakeman, all associated with VRR.

    I haven’t read Dirt’s article yet, but I expect it to be excellent. Thanks for the posts.

  4. Eva Says:

    What about Monica “Fishy” Roberts? I’m sure there are exceptions to this rule, given the misogynist language one sees on gay male websites like Datalounge.

    • Marie-France Lesage Says:

      I’m sure some gay male “trans women” are toxic, but please don’t mind me reminding you (and me and everyone else) that you never know who is posting on-line. Someone pretending to be a gay male “trans woman” while posting on a site for gay men could very well be an autogynephillic heterosexual male “trans woman” who is bored or trolling for some attention. They tend to be ***extremely*** socially isolated in real life.

    • Ave Says:

      Just because there are exceptions to a rule doesn’t invalidate the fact of a general trend.

  5. tix8770 Says:

    The analysis here, based on Dirt’s article, does seem to account for many puzzling aspects. I wish it wasn’t up to radical feminists to have to figure out what is actually going on in the transactivist groups, but they sometimes seem unconscious of their own motivations and how their flailing around is causing harm. They do have very serious issues to deal with, but they are reacting with mighty overkill defensiveness to any criticism and closing themselves off from the kinds of discussions that might help their movement mature.

    We have to be careful not to get sucked into engaging ON THEIR TERMS with what I will hesitantly call the insanity of some of their positions. Writers like Dirt and you who continue to observe and analyze the situation independently and objectively are so important right now.

    I am also worried about the amount of gynergy this issue is taking to deal with, when the patriarchal backlash continues to strengthen and grow behind the scenes. Sometimes I feel as though the issue of transsexualism is operating as a feint, a frontal attack meant to exhaust us while the actual bulk of the patriarchal forces mass at our flanks and behind us. The patriarchy seems to operate like a headless but very effective war machine, extending its reach and protecting its perogatives. Max Ernst encapsulated my visions of this in a painting titled The Elephant Celebes (I tried to post it but couldn’t).

    • Guls Says:

      Respectfully,, I disagree with your last point: just how much ‘feminimity’ males can take on board without resorting to transitioning (and vice versa) is fairly indicative of the hold gender will have over future generations. Successful resolution of the Trans/Radfem standoff is a crucial front in the ‘sex war’ imo. And as a lover of language, ‘Gynergy’ is a great word – never seen that before🙂

  6. weirdward Says:

    omg there was an ‘anonymous’ comment on Dirt’s blog from someone claiming that it was Suzanne Moore and Julie Bindel who were the targets of the latest witch hunt, not Julie Birchell. Like, those damn feminists, they’re all the same, right? We can’t tell them apart, they’re all called Julie, who cares they all gotta die anyway.

    This thing is seriously out of control, it’s so blatantly obvious they don’t even care to investigate to find out if the accusations against the victim are ‘legitimate’ (haha) or even who the victim is. Any woman will do for a target – even if it’s the wrong one (this time, at least).

    Or maybe they think that all UK women journalists are actually just multiple personalities of Julie Bindel? Because, like there couldn’t be more than one woman journalist in the entire UK, could there? And they couldn’t actually sometimes agree on issues that affect women, could they?

    Welcome to the year 1600 everyone, enjoy the torture and death.

  7. Bev Jo Says:

    I agree, Kitty! Some of us, including our beloved Gallus Mag, have been saying for quite a while that the majority of the men claiming female identity are the most privileged of het men, with a few desperate self-hating gay men, but it’s so important to keep saying this.

  8. Beth Says:

    From the link on trans models:

    “Unlike even the thinnest of women, who often fight cellulite and stretch marks, the trans-models have long, sinewy limbs unscarred by such typically female afflictions. Once they’ve lasered away facial or body hair, they can sometimes look more feminine even than models who were born female.”

    Yep. I don’t know any woman who doesn’t have stretch marks (breasts, thighs) or cellulite. Even stick skinny females I know still get them after puberty. It’s scary that the male gaze is now attracted to a pre-pubescent (no muscle tone) male form with breasts. No wonder so many females hate themselves. They’ll never look like that.
    It’s worse than photoshop because it’s real. These ‘perfect’ forms exist.

    But no, let’s not discuss that. Let’s talk about Suzanne Moore’s use of the words “Brazillian Transsexual”.

    • Em Says:

      @Beth: “These ‘perfect’ forms exist.”

      Yeah, and guess what? They’re male! Let’s face it–“women’s” fashion looks best on men.

      Right, I don’t give a fuck either, except that fashion is a social signalling device. And what this signals is pure misogyny.

      So many WTF moments, so little time …

    • Marie-France Lesage Says:

      “It’s scary that the male gaze is now attracted to a pre-pubescent (no muscle tone) male form with breasts.”

      Exactly! I’ve been saying that for forty years. Only true feminists seem capable of hearing me. It’s like a dog whistle that only women who have smashed through their denial can really hear!

      • pikuthulu Says:

        One of the biggest misogynists I ever met was obsessed with Latin-American trans prostitutes. He was obsessed with prostitutes in general, but they were the best because they were more ‘feminine’. I asked him why the fuck he was talking about this stuff with me (we met because we were both interested in the same political issues. I think he fancied me, but I said I was a lesbian). He said ‘because you share an interest in women’. What I should’ve said (but didn’t) was ‘I’M the only one here who likes WOMEN’.
        These guys don’t like women at all, they hate them. They like the pretence of femininity (which actually seems very un-female to me).

      • Beth Says:

        My mother used to say something similar.

        She ‘blamed’ gay men. Saying once they started getting heavily into fashion the model shape changed towards a male form (essentially what a gay male would enjoy looking at). Like what Em said.

        Now I wouldn’t give a shit except for the fact that they hold up these women (or trans) as an ideal form, knowing damn well 96% of the female population isn’t going to look like that. So women get breast implants, liposuction, nose jobs, spray tans (or skin lightener), lip filler and spend millions on diet and exercise crazes.
        In the end, women hate themselves and each other. It’s a nice way to keep us all complacent. We feel shit about ourselves and are therefore less willing to put up a fight.

        Men get this to a lesser degree. Their ideal is like He-Man.
        It seems that men are more likely to internalize it and then react violently though. Or blame women.

  9. pikuthulu Says:

    I notice an unwillingness amongst transactivists to even admit that in non-Western cultures, transitioning is usually done by gay people to escape homophobia. I’ve seen Iran being held up as more ‘progressive’ than rad fems quite a few times, which is truly ridiculous. They have no honesty whatsoever. In their eyes, everyone who transitions is obviously trans because they maintain this lie that trans people everywhere are more oppressed than gay people.

    I’ve even had that argued in forum threads that have had people from Latin-American and Middle Eastern cultures coming out and saying that people are much more accepting of trans in their culture than they are of homosexuals. Even with that evidence right in front of them, they still say something to the effect of ‘shut up woman, trans are much more oppressed than you dykes. Stupid feminazis like you are evil for picking on the most oppressed group in the world!’

    I also get ‘you don’t know what it’s like to feel like you were born in the wrong body’. I kind of do – they know naff all about how I feel about my physical sex. I just reject the whole ‘trans’ thing.

    • Beth Says:

      I agree.
      I watched something on Iranian transsexuals and they flat out told the interviewer that they’d become women because they liked men. They were still treated like shit by society and most of them worked in prostitution.

      Also, we’ve got a program on at the moment called Ladyboys. All the transsexuals (so far) are homosexual (men liking men). The majority of them come from countries with shitty attitudes towards homosexuals and they talk about being beaten and harassed for being too feminine as a male.

      I want to know how trans know things would be different if they were born in their ‘correct’ bodies. How do they know that trans/gender dysphoria isn’t some gene or brain malformation? Even if MtT were born female (or FtT born male) how do they know they still wouldn’t feel as if they were born wrong? Just because surgery or hormones might appear to ‘cure’ the dysphoria doesn’t mean anything. The placebo effect could explain that. You feel like something is being done and then feel better.

      Also, doesn’t everyone suffer from a bit of gender identity crisis? I met a fair amount of lesbians that knew about phalloplasty. Those movies about what you would do if you switched bodies with someone of the same sex. And people ask questions about it
      “What would you do if you were a girl?”
      “Imagine being a boy for a day”
      So people do think about it.

      • Adrian Says:

        I came in here thinking about the “ladyboy” role or “third sex” myself too. Reading some things about how it happens in the Philippines, it seems that the “third sex” role mapping most closely to M2T (“bakla”) is about being gay, but specifically feminine gay, and they are dated by other men who consider themselves to still be… heterosexual.

        Yet the interesting part that got me reading about it is, while the “third sex” is more accepted in some places, to the point of having beauty pageants just for them and whatnot, they’re still heavily stereotyped into certain occupations, and yet, while apparently plenty of them do use feminine pronouns, they don’t actually claim to be WOMEN, or pull this whole “we’re all women there’s no difference between you and me and check out my ladypeen” business. They are a separate category.

        To me, that’s a HUUUUUGE difference (in their favor).

        It does have me wondering though about how in places where there’s “men, women, and then third sex” (where third sex seems to pretty much always be M2T rather than the reverse, but essentially openly trans*) and the idea is that “homosexual relationships of men” are about a man dating a third sex person, how they would view two masculine men in a relationship, or two women, or two “third sex” for that matter. Because it seems that the standard thing is a man dates someone of the third sex, and it’s “more or less heterosexual” at least for the man.

      • pikuthulu Says:

        @Adrian, it’s the same with the fakaleiti in Tonga, and the hijra in India/Pakistan. They’re not actually seen as exactly the same as women, but men can have sex with them and still call themselves straight. There aren’t really other ways of being openly gay in those cultures.

      • pikuthulu Says:

        Two masculine men would not be allowed – they would be horribly persecuted. Two women would be ignored, but if it was made public, then they would persecuted. Two third genders would probably be totally ignored.
        At least that’s how it would happen in Pakistan. Not sure about elsewhere.

      • Adrian Says:

        @pikuthulu – It’s interesting. Lately I was reading some things about the “bakla” and there was a big emphasis on how that identity, unlike the (evil white Western) conception of “trans*” is not just about “gender identity” (to the extent that that’s a thing) but also very much tied to sexual orientation. It’s a package, yeah. They’re femme, possibly using feminine pronouns, but they date men. Only. Probably more like the “I’m a man, dating men” comes first, and then the “so therefore I’m femmy” part. Which IS actually different from the more usual “you have a gender identity (again, to the extent that that’s a thing) and that’s 100% separate from your sexual orientation” which seems to be the “current state” of the terms in the US.

        Of course this then gets filtered through the American-culture of Tumblr, and the people writing about this are people who identify that way and have ethnic background but are born and raised 100% in North America English speaking, and yeah, it’s all about how this is more open-minded, because hey, trans* people and wider society has a place for them, and oh by the way, mainstream “white” trans* culture is oppressing them because they’re not binary! and no one understands this situation (yes, did I mention this is Tumblr? heh)

        But yeah, reading around, it seems acceptance as it is is not exactly uniform, and of course, no mention of other types of gay relationships (where both sides would be unambiguously gay, masculine, whatever). So I’m not buying that it’s somehow a paradise of tolerance in that system.

    • Marie-France Lesage Says:

      You raise a point for me that I have pondered many, many times.

      I think there is a strong masochistic streak in some (many) heterosexual male “trans women” — and possibly in some gay male “trans women” of the autogynephillic type (those who have a sexual fetish for themselves performing “woman”.)

      Why else would a man with a safe and secure job and income don “woman face” and sexually revealing clothes and walk out at night in some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the world, offering himself up to other (dangerous) men as prostitutes? Or advertise on-line as “escorts” or sexual partners to God knows what stranger?

      Those who don’t actually NEED to do it in order to survive — and many of them didn’t do it perhaps for the first several decades of their lives where they enjoyed all their male economic privilege — start doing it only ***after*** they “transition”?

      I think placing themselves in this kind of danger has something to do with a very masochistic streak or, worse yet, an idea in their heads that “women are here to be abused — now I am a woman, abuse me, men”.

      I can’t link any examples right now but I have seen clear signs of this masochism several times.

      It’s certainly part of the sickness for at least some of them: “Hey! Look at me! I’m a (not at all passing) woman! In really over-the-top ‘sexy’ clothes! And “scary clown” make-up! Abuse me! Be outraged! Be reviled!”

      • pikuthulu Says:

        The men who use these trans prostitutes are quite sadistic, as well. They see these trans as acting how women are supposed to act (extremely masochistically) and being more woman than bio women. This is especially true when they fetishize the trans who aren’t white and come from poor countries like Brazil and Thailand. It’s like part of it’s about getting back at bio women for not being feminine enough – by taking their ‘custom’ elsewhere. You know, third-world trans prostitutes are like the ultimate in femininity, because femininity = suffering and masochism to these men.

      • Eva Says:

        I agree and am reminded of that “sissy” guy who Gallus wrote about several months ago. Obviously he’s an extreme case.

        It’s virtually impossible to find MTFs online and especially on Tumblr who aren’t heavily into kink. If you’re not into BDSM in the pomoqueer community, you are considered a prudish freak.

        Also, even more than the rest of the Social Justice Tumblr tots, the MTFs really get off on just being outraged. One gets the sense that some affluent white males who don’t get bothered much by anyone have fetishized victimhood as they have femininity. And their conception of their own level of victimhood is as cartoonish as their execution of femininity.

        It’s all part of a crazy paraphilia that just cries out for an Oliver Sacks to document it.

      • Adrian Says:

        @Eva – If you look up “piece of work” in the dictionary it should have a picture of that guy… I have to say the article on him is probably the creepiest post I’ve ever read here and that’s saying something!!

        But yes. If you’re not into kink, if you’re not willing to have sex with just any casual acquaintance, if you think that in the world we live in in 2013 full of misogyny as it is perhaps you don’t want to expose your flesh to the wandering male gaze, you’re repressed, you’re prudish, and worse yet, you’re Close Minded, and you should feel ashamed of yourself for “shaming” others by your stance.

        It’s nuts.

  10. bite me Says:

    this is so rife with speculation and utterly lacking in any research or information. trans people – especially trans WOMEN (or as you call them, “men”) – are at an increased risk to be assaulted compared to white cis women and white cis gay people. transitioning to “escape” homophobia is a ridiculous claim with absolutely no support whatsoever; trans women must live with homophobia and misogyny every day.

    admittedly, every trans person has their own reasons for choosing transition, but you sound just like the same awful people who would question every woman’s claim that she has been raped or every person’s motives for utilizing social welfare programs. it’s really pathetic.

    if a cis woman decides to cut her hair and she says it’s because she liked the way it looked, or it made her feel more like herself, are you really going to be one of the hordes of people insisting she had another motive and denying her the autonomy of explaining her own life choices? a world where women continue to enforce the patriarchy-based oppression of other women? that’s your idea of a good time?

    • Anon Male Says:

      “are at an increased risk to be assaulted compared to white cis women and white cis gay people”

      All the cissies are white, all the trans are black! This is intersectionality! Or a great rhetorical technique!

    • pikuthulu Says:

      We have no support whatsoever for the idea that people transition to escape homophobia, except for the people from non-Western cultures who say that’s exactly why they transitioned.
      I’m not one to claim to know why everyone transitions, but I take those people at their word. They’ve had shittier lives than you or I can imagine, so it’s the least bit of respect I can pay them. Particularly if they live in countries where being gay gets you the death penalty, but your sex change operation is paid for by the state.

      • pikuthulu Says:

        I’ll be intellectually honest enough to admit that Iran doesn’t officially execute people just for being gay, but the punishments are extremely harsh. It’s even illegal for women to wear men’s clothes or cut their hair short over there.If I lived in Iran, I would probably transition, and I’m not even trans.

    • Beth Says:

      Actually, our support for the theory men transition to escape homophobia is well documented in men from outside Western countries. They admit as much themselves.

      Transwomen live with misogyny everyday? Really? Wow…that’s interesting. So do women. On a massive scale.

      Are you seriously comparing transition to rape?

      WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

      There is no scientific proof for transgender individuals. Nothing supporting brain theory or ‘hormone wash’.

      Rape is rape. That’s a definable thing.

      And (at least where I’m from) you do have to explain why you’re going on welfare. The government looks at your life, monetary income, number of dependants and decides whether or not you’re eligible.
      I live with my parents (I’m a student), who make a lot of money. I can’t front up to the welfare agency and say “I need money because my job doesn’t pay me enough to get a Masarati”. They’d say “You’re not eligible, you have monetary support from your parents”.

      This whole site is about freedom of choice for women. Our choice to not acknowledge men playing dress up as women. Our choice to not be forced having them in our spaces, in our change rooms or bathrooms.
      Trans reinforce gender stereotypes you fool. Did you not watch the video?

  11. activist0hat Says:

    This is trash, and NOT an analysis. You people are fucking crazy.

  12. activist0hat Says:

    and white people shouldn’t talk about race either.

    • GallusMag Says:

      LOL you’re probably right. But even a dumb cracker like me can tell it’s not white guys getting killed in Brazil.

      and you posted that thought on every other article about this issue you could find, right? You wouldn’t have just singled out a particular radical feminist article, WOULD YOU? You wouldn’t be TARGETING radical feminist sites, WOULD YOU?

  13. GallusMag Says:

    LMAO Janet Mock asked me to change that picture so I did. Priorities! lolololol my god.

    • GallusMag Says:

      I actually thought the other was more flattering… but what do I know.

      Here is the picture he hated:

    • Marie-France Lesage Says:

      The other picture was MUCH more flattering. More proof of the “trans” inability to see themselves as others see them.

      If I had a nickel for every time some male “trans woman” told me, “I pass flawlessly and men — and women — hit on me all the time. If I didn’t say something about being trans no one would ever know my history. Blah-blah I’m more feminine and prettier than you blah-blah” ad nauseum.

      Yeah. Sure you pass, dude. It couldn’t possibly be that:

      1) You’re suffering from a mental disorder that makes you delusional about your body and “gender”; and

      2) Most people were raised by their mothers to not point, stare or make upsetting comments to your face.

      Sheesh.

  14. GallusMag Says:

    NOTE TO READERS: IF YOU HAVE THREATENED FEMINISTS WITH VIOLENCE YOUR COMMENTS WILL NOT BE PUBLISHED.

    • Beth Says:

      I kind of want to see their comments. Just so I can screen-cap them and show them to trans allies and funfems.

      “This is what your side says to women. Remember women? 50% of the population (or thereabouts) who are disproportionate victims of rape, poverty and subjugation?”

      I don’t think I’ve ever seen a radfem threaten trans with violence. I don’t think I’ve even seen gays and lesbians threaten conservative Christians with so much violence. (I may be wrong on this one)
      Is there any evidence of radfems threatening to rape and kill trans?

      We’ve never said anything about trans dying in fires or anything. Saying “Hey, men might abuse gender identity legislation to attack us” is not denying them rights.
      And NONE OF THEM WILL EXPLAIN COLLEEN FRANCIS TO ME.
      I must have posted about it on a dozen sites this week and NO ONE will explain it. Why does a feMALE with a penis get a locker room to himself because women feel uncomfortable around him? Explain that to me trans lurkers. Seriously, explain that.

      • Marie-France Lesage Says:

        That “Brain” creature goes around to MSM sites claiming that radfems want him and all other “trans” people to be “exterminated”. He has some quotes that don’t even directly support his claim, so he can’t of course actually link to them or show an un-edited screen cap.

        I myself was accused of wanting “trans” people to be murdered or to commit suicide because, apparently, just disagreeing with someone is The Exact Same Thing as wanting them to be brutally killed. Go figure.

        This is all smoke and mirrors of course to divert people’s attention from the FACT that feminists like GM, Brennan, Dirt and the person formerly known as GayNotQueer, etc. etc. etc. — basically anyone who dares to question the mythology of the “trans” borg — regularly get death threats and threats of violence posted on their blogs.

        We keep screen caps, we post them in their entirety, we experience these things directly. We know who is threatening whom.

        People like “Brain” have no integrity and therefore feel no compunction about lying through their teeth. Women who are paying attention will figure it out, eventually. These woman-hating, woman-abusing, violent “trans” whacktivists cannot hide their true colors for very long.

      • Beth Says:

        Wait, do you mean

        http://cs.anu.edu.au/~Zoe.Brain/ ?

        Hah, I know who he is! I think I’ve met him IRL.

        This bit: ” Parenting my Son, born in 2001″

        Oh my god, I’m actually going to die laughing.

      • Marie-France Lesage Says:

        @Beth — yep, that’s the dude. He’s a real piece of work, I tell ya.

        Laughing seems to be the best defense against someone delusional who claims that radfems all want to “exterminate” him.

        Goddess wept, dude, catch a freaking clue. We just want you to stop tormenting real intersex people — stop making up wild and irrational stories about your made-up version of what intersex is — and stay out of women’s safe and private spaces. That’s pretty much it for me. If you’re not flapping your ball sack around in the women’s locker room, I’m good.

      • BadDyke Says:

        Yep, I think that’s Zoe. I wonder if he’s finally got his PhD……….Came across him on another discussion board, where he spewed the usual set of scientific papers — went off, read them, showed where he was wrong, then he ran away after admitting it was a ‘good answer’. But continues to spout the same stuff at every opportunity.

        Best bits — claims to be a rocket scientist (nope, computer science Phd candidate who’s written some code for satellite and stuff DOESN’T make you a ‘rocket scientist’, just a boring ole programmer. Just as writing software for a new MR scanner doesn’t make you a medic). Best, BEST bit of all are the continued claims to be intersex and MAGICAL bit about spontaneous feminisation…………………..


  15. Femininity has long been recognized as being associated with subordination. Mary Wollstonecraft, in her 1792 book Vindication of the Rights of Women, eloquently argues for the abandoning of those cultural -NON-NATURAL – norms. They cultivate weakness and lead to a lack of courage, independence, and rigorous intellectual and physical characteristics. John Stuart Mill, in his The Subjugation of Women of 1869, argues for much the same thing, adding though that no subjugated group stands up all at the same time and demands their liberty.
    The issue is power. Masculinity trumps femininity. But the lure of power that can be gained through the manipulative display of femininity is still a lure. The debate in this blog about the motives behind trans is irrelevant. The real problem is the power imbalance that comes with the strict dichotomy between masculinity and femininity, for that is the open invitation to cruelty. Giving excess power to one group and denying power to the other is an invitation for sadism and its twin masochism. It is this that needs to be addressed.

    • Guls Says:

      I don’t agree that the motives of trans culture are irrelevant. We live ina patriarchy with a divide-and-conquer mentality: the trans model perpetuates and widens that divide. A society where all variants of sex and sexuality are accepted and valued on equal terms would serve us better: people who want to act out feminine gender roles whilst retaining the mentality of male privilege give us the worst of both worlds: violence as a solution to conflict and recourse to victimhood when that doesn’t work out. Props for referencing Mill – it’s On The SUBJECTION of Women, by the way – but even he admitted that ‘the missus’ deserved as much credit as he for his treatise.


  16. […] blogs “Homophobia and Racism at core of Trans criticism of Suzanne […]


  17. So if I understand correctly your a collection of feminists who are angry about being repressed and your solution is to oppress another group?

    Brilliant!


    • Dear moderator, there was a typo in my comment. Apologies. I did not mean to say “repressed” What I meant to say was…

      So if I understand correctly your a collection of feminists who are angry about being oppressed and your solution is to oppress another group?

      Brilliant!

      Thanks

      • GallusMag Says:

        I don’t think you have a clear understanding of what the word oppression means.

      • moose Says:

        I’ve never considered myself ‘feminist’ or even especially political, my activism has always primarily dealt with architectural preservation; if not believing that men can be turned into women or vice versa (or that people can be ‘brains in wrong bodies’) makes me an ‘angry feminist’ so be it, but that means that most straight males (and most people in the world) are also ‘angry feminists…’

    • Adrian Says:

      No, it’s just people upset about their identity being appropriated by a bunch of people essentially walking around in “womanface” and insisting that we shouldn’t notice, or worse yet, should somehow say that they’re “better at it” than those of us actually born to it and not just wearing a costume built on some weird idealized image of what they THINK a “woman must think like.” Because let’s face it, if you think that you “think like a woman” and you weren’t born to it, then that means you have some stereotype of how we think, and quite frankly, eff that noise.

      I’m born a woman. Told so from day one. I’ve never particularly had any kinda “feminine gender identity” though. I think the “feminine brain” is a bunch of hooey. Woman on the outside, human on the inside, THAT is what I am. I don’t sit around thinking “wow I feel like a “lady”!!!” unless someone reminds me of it by not letting me in somewhere and then I just get mad.

      Meanwhile though no one particularly cares if you want to wear supposedly feminine clothing or are obsessed with shopping or whatever the usual tropes are. Just don’t claim to be the same as me.

  18. I.am.ashamed.and.sickened Says:

    It’s definitely the case in Iran. The local hodjas encourage male gay people to have sex-change operations, rather than be gay. Most mullahs endorse the idea without speaking about it too often and Iran has the highest sex-change operation rate in the word. Something like the Dirt article does apply in the case of the ‘travestiler’ – in downtown Istanbul. But they are not idiots they don’t claim to be women and try enter a women’s only shelters or anything like this.
    Sometimes they are forced to behave effeminate to pass the hoops of what being gay is. I did military service in Turkey and there is still a system where if you are homosexual you are exempted from military service. But to be accepted as gay you have to be ‘affeminate’, just being gay is not enough. Many straight people pretend they are gay to avoid military service. So only female fashion type gays get the exemption. So because everyone defers their military service – gay people play up on the expectation of others the effeminacy where they are expected to be gay, and at all other times act as straight/’normal’ as possible.

    I find the idea of giving hormones to under-18s because they want to wear floppy dresses as a boy or tough boots and work clothes as girls abhorrent. Same with the use of heavy psychotic drugs for teenagers. Some of the recent comments against Suzanne Moore have been sickening – absolutely vile – far, far harder than standard right-wing put-downs of women. It simply allows a way in for right-wing anti-feminists to say ‘At least I’m calling for you to die, go X/Y/Z (insulting). All based on two words that are irrelevant to the article.
    People on twitter are saying you are a hate site and want to kill people and that you are the 21st century ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’. I had to check it, and I think there is nothing wrong with this site. I hope someone finds what I’ve written useful. Thankyou.

    • Marie-France Lesage Says:

      Thank you. I appreciate you sharing your point of view.

      Of course this is not a “hate site”. It is a truth site, and some people — especially people with serious mental health issues — can’t take the truth.

  19. I.am.ashamed.and.sickened.of.comments against Suzanne Moore Says:

    People on twitter have said you are the worst example to feminism, I think the Julie Burchill article has made everyone think twitterists good Suzanne Moore bad – but it is the opposite.


  20. […] I posted commentary and photos and a partial re-blog of Dirt’s article calling out the racism and … […]

  21. GallusMag Says:

    As some of you may know, my posting access to my GenderTrender wordpress.com blog was suspended at the end of the business day on Friday January 18. My last post, on Friday morning, was a collection of screen caps: a random sampling of the abusive and threatening tweets directed at Suzanne Moore following her “SEEING RED: THE POWER OF FEMALE ANGER” article re-publication.

    Prior to Friday morning’s post I did five controversial posts in succession:

    1.) I outed an MD and Phd who threatened to murder a bunch of radical feminists, also specifically targeting myself and Cathy Brennan. 1/10/2013 FRI

    2.) I posted the text of Professor Sheila Jeffeys’ submission to the Human Rights and Anti-Discrimination Bill 1/12/2013 SUN

    3.) I posted the entire text (and published imagery) of Julie Burchill’s “Transsexuals Should Cut it Out”, which was subsequently censored in toto by the Guardian/Observer and for which she is now facing a government criminal inquiry. 1/13/2013 MON

    4.) I posted commentary and photos and a partial re-blog of Dirt’s article calling out the racism and homophobia at the core of the initial trans response to Suzanne Moore’s use of the term “Brazillian transsexual” in her “SEEING RED: THE POWER OF FEMALE RAGE” article. 1/16/2013 THURS

    5.) I posted a video of Precious “Jewel” Davis, a (self-professed) gay drag queen who recently “turned trans” from the “We Happy Trans” project . 1/16/2013 THURS

    What a week!

    My blog is “newsy”. When things are going on, I post them. And there is a lot going on right now. Specifically, there is a peak of public discourse around the feminist critique of gender. We have about a week before the general public becomes bored with this topic (as they do with all topics). Right now, this discourse is peaking- into the mainstream- in a way I’m not sure it has ever done before. This is a critical time.

    Some of you have taken issue with the language Julie Burchill used in her now criminalized article and claim her bombastic tone has undermined the message. As if there was EVER a platform for that “message”. Suzanne Moore wasn’t “bombastic” and look what the fuck happened to her! Some of you have actively taken steps to discredit Burchill or distance yourself from her. Must step lightly, you say. Throw her off the boat! Backstabbing is a pointless discussion to have at this point. Clearly the trans politic is seizing the moment to re-frame their violent suppression of feminist – of WOMENS and LESBIAN voices- as an anguished “what about the menzzzz” cry to promote further censorship and no-platforming of feminist gender critiques, but remember, that is the same tact they use whether you are rude or polite. The polite Conway Hall feminist conference was no-platformed by the MRA/Trans alliance with terrorist bombing and murder threats. Mainstream feminist discourse has been taken over by males in an “oh so polite” way- backed up by threats of rape and death. Feminists who have tried to discourse with the trans politic have been- at best- mocked and distained. Whether you give an inch or a mile. Burchill simply chose to take on the abuse in stead of her friend Suzanne Moore. Julie is not a stupid woman. She has lanced a boil. That boil is the silencing of feminist voices by the transgender lobby. Whether that wound heals or encapsulates will be determined by our response. She has directed attention to this issue by throwing herself on a pyre into the angry mob. Immolation. That Burchill broad kicks some balls and goes down swinging. And where the fuck are you?

    Let’s not waste this opportunity, shall we? We have the world’s attention. LET US SPEAK.

    Unfortunately for me at GenderTrender, my voice has been silenced now by my website host at wordpress.com.

    Yesterday Janet Mock of People Magazine, (he of “Girls Like Us” fame), decided to start a campaign against my blog. Early Friday morning (before my Suzanne Moore Tweet post) I became aware of a censorship campaign against GenderTrender, and all wordpress radical feminist blogs. There have been a million of these campaigns, but Mock is a very powerful man.
    Mock initially became enraged when he read my post (Number 4 above) and saw a photo of himself, and “misgendering” (because it mentioned that he was male) and decided that women have no right to discuss or post photos of public figures on feminist blogs. Instead of filing a complaint with wordpress or messaging me with his demands (or just shutting the fuck up) he started a twitter campaign to ban my blog which was quickly seized by trans activists smelling blood in the water following their successful censorship of Burchill and success in driving Suzanne Moore off of twitter. All the usual suspects came on board within minutes: Hetero female “fag” Stephen Ira, Lefty “TGirl” inventor of the ladystick Savanna Garmon, Transfeminist Natalie “Die cis scum” Reed and all the rest. NO DISCUSSION of TRANS ACTIVISM by WOMEN they railed. GAG THESE BITCHES.

    When I did not notice Mock’s campaign (because I never check my tweets and I was sleeping) he engaged his pals to post news articles complaining about wordpress.com’s hosting of gender critical and trans-critical blogs. The proposed banning of all female voices re: politics relating to gender, especially mine. I took action when I became aware of Mock’s campaign, specifically his charge that the public news-site photo I had used was off limits. To placate his male rage I replaced that pic with an alternate screen cap from another (NBC) appearance, and I kindly tweeted him that I had resolved his photo issue. Seriously, these guys literally think they can lobby on the national news and women have no right to discuss it. HOW DARE IT SPEAK???

    I posted a few of the Suzanne Moore tweets, went to work, and when I came home my blog had TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND hits. And I was LOCKED OUT by wordpress.com.

    I now have NO WAY to POST on MY OWN BLOG due to wordpress.com. It’s all well and good for feminists to have blogs and such that are gender critical, as long as no one is paying attention to them. You can post the most intelligent, elegant legal critique of the ways “Gender Identity” status negatively impacts woman AS LONG AS NO ONE READS IT. AS LONG AS NO ONE IS LISTENING. Women can have their tiny corners, their sekret cabals AS LONG AS NO ONE IS READING. Let the gals blow off steam in dark corners on Facebook. As long as it doesn’t hit the mainstream. Let the edumacated upper class folks have their little talks that no one finds interesting or engaging. But god forbid feminist voices start being heard en masse. God Forbid Julie Burchill says what EVERY FUCKING WOMAN ON EARTH IS THINKING. GOD FORBID Trans Media Watch cites GenderTrender as a SOURCE in the women vs. gender discourse.

    Someone said this as a comment on my blog recently, much better than I’m about to mis-quote, but it was basically that the transgender politic around the social hierarchy of the sexes is so utterly flimsy that it can tolerate no critique whatsoever from women, and as a male-centric philosophy the realities of female experience CANNOT be tolerated.

    WordPress.com, hosted by Automattic, has prevented me from posting this on the blog I have built up from the ground against all odds. And Gosh who cares about that? Who cares about Bindel and Greer and Jeffreys and Brennan and Moore and Benvenuto and Burchill? We still have our little corners where they can’t silence us. Keep voices hushed. Avert your eyes, sisters. Let’s spectate.

    IF YOU GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THIS – and I know many of you DO, I encourage you to RAISE A HOLY FUCKING SHITSTORM about the silencing of feminists who critique GENDER and PLASTIC SURGERY and MUTILATION and RAPE and FREEDOM FROM THE PEEN and ETC ETC ETC.

    I mean this literally: SPEAK NOW or FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE.
    Have a blog? UPDATE IT TODAY with a focus on FREEDOM OF SPEECH for women. COMPLAIN about death threats on women- and NOT to your “friends” on Facebook. COMPLAIN about CENSORSHIP of women. Call the fucking news agency. Call ten fucking friends to meet on Tuesday night to set out a goal-oriented political action plan to support freedom of speech for women. ASSERT the right for women to DISCUSS POLITICS even if those public figures are “TRANS GENDER”. Make that lame fucking account so you can leave that comment on that awful news story. Take action every single fucking day. But ESPECIALLY TODAY. It’s time to say NO to the censoring of women- even if they are more (or less!) plain-spoken than you would like.

    You liked GenderTrender, you counted on me- well I have been ELIMINATED. Fucking GAGGED because people were listening.


  22. […] For those interested, here is a brilliant deconstruction of what was really behind the criticism of … […]

  23. ET Says:

    Freedom of speech? What about people who are racist? By your reckoning they should be free to be racially abusive, if you are allowed to be free to be transphobic. Same difference. That is what you’re saying: its ok to be transphobic, to ridicule and belittle a section of society. Sounds very familiar doesn’t it, miss ‘feminist agenda’? No, not every woman on earth is thinking what JB says, far, far from it. Why have you been blocked from your blogs? Because you are a foul-mouthed moron who does NOT speak for every woman on the planet. Stop twisting it into an issue about feminine repression, its nothing to do with it. If this is what you think, it really is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

    • Beth Says:

      People who are racist are allowed to be racist. I don’t appreciate it, but I have no control over how people think. How exactly does telling them to shut up help anything? Allowing them to talk means people know who they are and how to avoid them. There’s nothing worse then meeting someone you think is nice and then BAM! big ol’ Swastika on the arm. I hate right wing mouth pieces like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter. I know I hate them because I’ve heard them speak. I know to avoid anyone who quotes or references them in a positive light. Hearing what they lie and demonise people about gives me the opportunity to refute what they are saying and to prove them wrong.

      Westboro must be the foulest church in existence and because they’re allowed to speak freely, people know to avoid them.

      Now, none of that has any relation to this site because your accusations of transphobia are HORSESHIT.
      Your assertion that males can be female (or vice versa) is ridiculous. You have no proof. No science. Nothing. You have anecdotes, which are worthless in comparasion to fact.

      Saying a penis is male, saying XY chromosomes=male is not transphobic. It’s fucking science. What magical planet do you live on? Feel free to discuss this. I recognise your free speech entitlement to disagree with me.

    • moose Says:

      Yeah, don’t you know all women have to speak for every woman on the planet in order to have any validity?

  24. Guls Says:

    I haven’t read all of Dirt’s article or the comments but it seems to me predictable that a transwoman who identified as gay in ‘her’ previous life ought to undertand better than a straight man the necessity for ‘safe space’, given the history of LGB culture and the oppression therof.

  25. Isabelle Says:

    A little advice. [snip. No thanks -GM]

  26. Isabelle Says:

    I am a transwoman and a feminist. I am in favor of full women’s rights and all respect for all women. On the other hand, trans people are a overwhelmingly massacred people, especially trans of Latin America, but also hijras of India and Pakistan, warias in Indonesia or the transpinays (bakla) in the Philppines. I just abhor this massacring discrimination and violence against trans people in schools, employment, health care, etc. As for trans kids they shoud be free to express themselves and act the way they feel more comfortable. We should be free to be the way we are, the way we know we are. And Gallus I apologize if you took things I wrote here as offensive. Forgive me. As a trans, I am a victim of misogyny, machismo and patriarchy too. I want to see all women being fully respected you can be sure of it. Best wishes wholeheartedly.


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