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March 11, 2013 at 7:43 pm
Elizabeth, honey, Metal Machine Music was 38 years ago. This is some tired bullshit here. Try harder next time.
March 11, 2013 at 7:47 pm
THERE Elizabeth! You’ve been “attacked”! Never say your dreams can’t come true…
😛
March 11, 2013 at 8:30 pm
hurrar!
now i feal like a real activist.
it’s a shame my music is so useless, i should tell the institutions who collect it to stop.
March 11, 2013 at 7:56 pm
From the “album” page:
“i am a Noise artist working mainly with found sound”
No, no you’re not. When your “music” is basically indistinguishable from the output of a random number generator, it’s not art. It’s just noise. You had a chance to put together something witty, satirical, or even just a long-winded rant about how you’re being oppressed because someone on the internet disagrees with you. Instead, you managed to assemble 27 minutes of … nothing of any value whatsoever.
“i’ve been publicly attacked by two of the bloggers responsible for the violent hate speech posted on gendertrender”
That’s a rather strong statement, and it leads me to strongly suspect you don’t know what some of those words actually mean.
Hate speech is speech directed out of anger or condemnation at a particular group because of who they are. There is a difference between condemning a class of people for intrinsic characteristics (often outside their control), and calling attention to particular individuals within a group based on their *behavior*.
Furthermore, you use the term “*violent* hate speech”. Violence doesn’t mean “you hurt my feelings”. It does include threats of, and allusions to *actual violence*. If you actually take the time to read the posts and comments here, you will see that violence and force are almost never advocated, and the few posts that do advocate force involve defense against aggressors. This is hardly surprising, as those who tend towards violence as a first resort are almost exclusively men.
If you want to see true “violent hate speech”, all you need to do is pick pretty much any comment section on pretty much any article on pretty much any site that involves a woman in a position of influence, or authority, or even just expressing opinions. If the site gets even a modicum of traffic, you will generally find people suggesting rape and other forms of violence as a means of control.
Picking a random thread I came across this morning, there were references to “tar and feathering”, “running out of town on a rail”, hanging from a lamp post, a comment reducing her to her genitalia, someone suggesting she fall down a long set of stairs, and someone calling to “off her”. All this out of 52 comments total. *This* is volent hate speech. You may consider someone calling you a dude hurtful, but it’s *not* hate speech, and it’s most certainly not “violent”.
March 11, 2013 at 8:37 pm
i’ve never, ofcorse, had death threats, threats of rape, hate campaigns directed against me for challenging male artists for their attitudes towards women, their genetalia and rape.
i’ve never been left unable to play my music live or see my friends play because i dared to challenge male artist’s privilege. no none of these things have ever happened to me.
the ‘individuals’ you so often call names, publish details and pictures of and scream hate speech at are almost exclusively (and trust me, i’ve been tracking you for some time) gender variant people.
seems more like picking on a minority than campaigning for women’s rights to me.
i do read the stuff you put up regarding topics such as the problems faced by butch lesbians and non-gender conforming cis women and you are a good place to come to for such stories however i have to weigh through a ton of crap to find the gold
March 11, 2013 at 8:41 pm
“i have to weigh through a ton of crap to find the gold” LIKE THIS SONG!
lol I tease.
March 11, 2013 at 8:42 pm
You are very ignorant and I will post screencaps here in comments when I have time later in order to illustrate that.
March 11, 2013 at 8:45 pm
i am ignorant? you called me a sexist for daring to point out that gender is a construct of patriarchal oppression.
cause you know sexists say that shit all the time
March 11, 2013 at 8:47 pm
OK you prove my point. thank you.
March 11, 2013 at 8:49 pm
how did i prove your point?
i’d love to debate these issues with you
March 11, 2013 at 9:02 pm
“the ‘individuals’ you so often call names, publish details and pictures of and scream hate speech at are almost exclusively (and trust me, i’ve been tracking you for some time) gender variant people.”
Correlation doesn’t equal causation.
/Why/ are those people brought up on this site? Is it for being gender-variant, or is it for the actions that they have taken?
March 11, 2013 at 9:08 pm
‘their actions’
well as one piece here recently poured vitriol upon the head of a woman who was assaulted then it is hardly their actions but rather the actions carried out upon them
March 11, 2013 at 9:14 pm
Elizabeth is talking about Mr. Jawbreaker:
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/02/11/trans-woman-student-abused-and-shoved-out-of-toilets-at-leeds-university/
March 11, 2013 at 9:16 pm
i should point out that i was the person that pulled them up for using the term ‘bitches’ on pink news, unacceptable behaviour, unacceptable language
March 11, 2013 at 9:28 pm
@Elizabeth
So, why non-women should have the right to go to women bathrooms?
March 11, 2013 at 11:24 pm
if you want to limit the ability to piss in public based on gender first you have to define gender,
how would you define a woman?
March 11, 2013 at 11:47 pm
Elizabeth we’re talking about sex not “jendur”. And you are now trolling. You have obviously never read any of this blog beyond a cursory glance at the post about your jawbreaking friend. This is not a 101 space. This is not a troll space. Come back when you’ve read the blog and understand what is going on here. I will not have you bore my readers. ta!
March 11, 2013 at 11:49 pm
http://sexnotgender.com/
March 11, 2013 at 11:59 pm
indeed ‘sex’ is as problematic a thing as gender, as slippery and ill defined, as constructed as gender roles.
i’d recommend ann festo sterling’s ‘queering the body’ as a history of how sex has been constructed. i’d recommend ‘bodies that matter’ but i’m shy to recommend such dense philosophical prose to anyone 🙂
March 12, 2013 at 3:04 pm
Transjacktivists define embrace the jenduh identity, that’s why they are in favor of non-women with penises on women bathrooms.
March 12, 2013 at 3:21 pm
“indeed ‘sex’ is as problematic a thing as gender”
Yeah, go tell that to the biologists!
SOMEONE isn’t listening, can’t be bothered to listen, and doesn’t care that we all KNOW they’re not listening to those nasty rad-fems, but has just swallowed the usual pomo nonsense hook, line and sinker.
Sex is as much a ‘social construct’ as gravity, and if you don’t believe that, just try stepping out of a fifth-floor window believing as hard as you can……………………….
Actually gravity is MORE problematic than simple ole sex, given the problems re gravity as a force (Newtonian viewpoint), and gravity as curved spacetime (Einsteinian viewpoint), neither of which help that much when it comes to quantum gravity! Although maybe I shouldn’t point this out, else some jenduh believers will come out with quantum indeterminate gender to try and explaijn their confusion re an imaginary purely social construct………………….
March 17, 2013 at 6:31 pm
Hey “Elizabeth”, are we being punk’d, or are you really that illiterate? I mean, holy crap. Put a little effort forth.
March 17, 2013 at 6:28 pm
Well done, Kathrin, and thanks. This dude has no fucking CLUE.
March 11, 2013 at 8:06 pm
Wow, Gallus, they’re making noise about you. What an honor. By a real live “Noise artist.”
Is that like being conned by a Con artist?
Boom! Attacked again!
March 11, 2013 at 8:34 pm
Is it really a “found” noise if it’s just the hum emanating from your radiator? Isn’t that just “an annoying noise”? It seems like to be a “found” noise there would be something of note in the “finding”.
The sound of ten trash bins blowing down the street in a hurricane.
The cacophony of a smash and grab.
The drunk wheezing next to you on the subway.
Something. Leave the house Elizabeth.
March 11, 2013 at 8:43 pm
i’ve released several items of that sort (i am currently preparing an album of tracks based on a pre ww2 book on Antarctic exploration which features a map with mostly empty space – i thought there was a metaphor for making art in there somewhere) and this particular track is a direct translation into sound of a picture of myself, my partner and friends out in a beautiful and remote moorland that is it is a happy image used to relate my hope for some sort of reconciliation between different strands of feminist discourse.
March 11, 2013 at 8:46 pm
That sounds great. If you do a better song- more attacky maybe??? I will post it here.
😉
March 11, 2013 at 8:50 pm
i don’t do songs, i do big slabs of drone and noise
March 11, 2013 at 8:51 pm
wait – i’m being moderated? what did i say?
March 11, 2013 at 8:54 pm
All comments are moderated the same. Say whatever you want.
March 11, 2013 at 8:54 pm
oddly my earlier comments where not.
i hope i didn’t cause offence? i am, after all, interested in discusion.
March 11, 2013 at 8:57 pm
They were. I just happened to be right here and approved them immediately. Sadly, that isn’t always the case.
March 11, 2013 at 8:59 pm
my apologies then 🙂
March 11, 2013 at 9:00 pm
Not at all.
🙂
March 11, 2013 at 9:03 pm
see, the people who said there was no chance of polite, reasoned debate here where liers.
this is all very cosy
now: how did i prove i was ignorant?
March 11, 2013 at 9:02 pm
I don’t get it./deadpan
March 11, 2013 at 9:10 pm
March 11, 2013 at 9:48 pm
don’t get me started on ‘liberal’ programing on foxx
March 11, 2013 at 9:12 pm
you may also enjoy (or may not) this album calling out men on rape culture and rape threats directed against women online:
http://elizabethveldon.bandcamp.com/album/its-just-a-joke-just-a-picture-i-didnt-mean-anything-dont-you-have-a-sence-of-fvcking-humour
March 11, 2013 at 9:19 pm
or this one: http://elizabethveldon.bandcamp.com/album/cleansed-by-the-blood-of-the-rapist-bleeding-but-defiant-another-protest-at-misogyny-in-noise-music
my celebrated ‘can you please stop rapeing me’ (played at a feminist protest in Portugal) is perhaps a little strong for this page
March 12, 2013 at 12:31 am
celebrated? collected by institutions? oy vey. see, women don’t really talk this way generally about themselves.
March 12, 2013 at 5:02 am
Edgy avant-garde stamped with institutional respectability- it’s a thing.
March 12, 2013 at 11:55 am
well I am something of an unusual-music maker myself (though not noise) and have been forever, have just never seen other women talk about their work this way, made me bristle suspiciously
March 16, 2013 at 1:01 am
Could well be right, Moss. I’m not interested enough to investigate.
😛
March 12, 2013 at 3:40 am
That’s music?! I thought Veldon taped a fly in the ear. I kept having this urge to grab a fly swatter and swat the damn thing.
Sorry, but I don’t classify insects in my ear as music. I hope you’re not planning on quitting your day job and going on tour?
March 12, 2013 at 4:34 am
“Cis women” is “hate speech.” Men defining women out of existence is hate and worse.
March 12, 2013 at 4:35 am
Amazing how men will just make noise and think it is brilliant “art.”
March 12, 2013 at 5:34 am
My impression is that Veldon is female. I’ve asked her to come back when she has a better understanding of this blog so she can engage at a higher level than the average genderist troll chirping “but sex doesn’t exist! read fausto-sterling!”
Truthfully if she was genuinely interested in the subject I think she already would have read my and other sites. I doubt she will be back.
Anyway the reason I think Veldon is female is that she fits a very common, very stereotypical form of “hipster” that is being played out right now:
-“musicians” who want to share their genius absent any commitment to learning to play any instrument or learning compositional skills, instead all producing the exact same “avant garde” droning shit. Because hey- post modernism says a ten minute recording of the sound your radiator makes is just as brill as the finest symphony PLUS self-conscious clever ironic deconstruction! Because thoughts!
– fausto-sterling/butler reading urban “genderqueers” who would never be thought of objectively as gender noncompliant, rather adopting certain strictly proscribed urban hipster subculture gender “fashions” to display their allegiance to the ideal that Jendur is just sooooo subversivvvveeee!
– hetero porn-loving “one of the guys” hipster women who think lesbians are bigots against “women with penises” because every man is what he says he is= an ideal that women should defend (for men) as their highest priority. because feminism!
Remember Ashleigh Marsh from a few weeks ago? Same EXACT hipster profile. They could be twins! https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/woman-vs-female/#comment-19073
Here is Ashleigh’s droning avant garde bullshit. Ashleigh is wise enough to collab with individuals who can actually play instruments:
March 12, 2013 at 5:39 am
BONUS points for art school graduate. Drop-out : even better!
March 12, 2013 at 3:20 pm
My impression is that Veldon is female.
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/guest_editorial_on_the_use_of_the_word_tranny
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/transgate_elizabeth_veldon_record_label_gender_variant
Her aural self-expression may be pants, but pedantic trolling aside Liz seems like an okay sort. This is probably why the “attack” she asked for went no further than clarification of terms and some pointed music (or should I say sound?) criticism. Contrary to rumor, you actually have to earn a smackdown around here. Hope she wasn’t disappointed.
March 12, 2013 at 11:59 am
i don’t know which is more insulting that you dismiss musical forms pioneered by female artists (eliane radigue for instance pioneered the minimalist longform drone, delia derbyshire and daphnie orpham pioneered tape music, laurie spiegel computer music) often made by lesbians and bisexual women or that because i don’t fit into your definition of what a gender variant person is that i must have been born a woman.
if your definitions don’t fit then perhaps you need to change your definitions.
March 12, 2013 at 7:27 pm
It was your work which was dismissed, not an entire “musical form”. Happy trolling! Take care.
http://thecottonceiling.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/artist-spotlight-pauline-oliveros/
March 12, 2013 at 7:31 pm
Good luck with your male-worshiping men’s rights activism. You’re gonna need it.
March 12, 2013 at 7:42 pm
see? this type of arrogance seems very male to me.
March 12, 2013 at 7:44 pm
lol if you think that’s bad I’ll post some funny screen caps later.
March 12, 2013 at 8:40 pm
Sorry, I’m just a big stupid old butch, but PLEASE give me Beethoven any day! 😀
March 13, 2013 at 6:43 am
Elizabeth, I cannot believe you are comparing your 27 minutes of droning noise to anything from Delia Derbyshire. Here is some of Delia’s work… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ6eOQsFvxg (yes, it’s Bach)
March 13, 2013 at 11:33 am
i appoligise, that was not my point.
my point was that the ‘real music has instruments and years of training’ argument is invalid and argubly bleeds into mysoginy.
the women i mentioned where, mostly, not trained musicians but came from other fields of study and applied these to music creation.
March 12, 2013 at 8:15 pm
That pretend music is VERY popular among the trannies. I’m in a community where there are lots of Lesbians and other women who are wanting to be known as musicians, and most are actually extremely good. Some are amazing. The one individual who really stands out as being terrible (off key bellowing lyrics that sound like they were written by a prurient adolescent boy) is the one trannie who intrudes the “women only” open mics. So I’m not convinced about Veldon. Or is that is a woman, maybe some of the trannie megalomania has rubbed off.
March 12, 2013 at 9:54 pm
Pretend music for pretend women: PRICELESS!
March 13, 2013 at 3:29 pm
farishcunning, I love Vivaldi myself, and various baroque female artists and composers. I find most music that drones on and on in public spaces just womanhating garbage trash, and certainly the music above is complete and utter garbage. Trans are into this stuff, the are techies, and ex-military, creepy crawly men who barge into lesbian space now. Trash heaps for trashy trans attempted take overs.
March 13, 2013 at 9:28 pm
SheilaG, my favorite eras are baroque and classical. Other than a little jazz, it’s all I listen to. Oh,and opera, of course!
March 13, 2013 at 10:31 pm
Speaking of music–> “Brass in Pocket” by The Pretenders came on the radio today, and as I heard the lyrics with fresh ears, I thought: This is the anthem of the guys in dresses who are trying to force acknowledgment. (“Gonna make you notice / I’m special / Gotta have some of your attention / Give it to me…”)
March 14, 2013 at 7:51 pm
Look at this article, another worship of the male anatomy:
http://www.autostraddle.com/getting-with-girls-like-us-a-radical-guide-to-dating-trans-women-for-cis-women-160269/
It’s like that whole “cotton ceiling” thing all over again.
March 15, 2013 at 12:42 pm
The ONLY male worth listening to music wise, he’s a beaut:
March 16, 2013 at 12:38 am
Hello, I’m new here. I apologize in advance for posting here but I wasn’t sure where to write this. I’m 19 and have been interested in womens issues since I was a young girl. Over the last couple of years I started identifying as a feminist and have been trying to learn more. Fun feminism, choice feminism has never felt right to me. I read books on transsexualism and I tried to “understand it” but I just couldn’t delude myself into think those men are really women. I couldn’t convince myself that sex work and plastic surgery was empowering. I felt isolated and had a hard time identify as a feminist anymore because of their twisted views. But I recently discovered radfemhub and it clicked with me. I have the utmost respect for what you women do here. It pains me to see the direction modern feminism has gone. I also see that I have A LOT to learn. I guess I just wanted to ask how I can get involved. I’m a little confused since Radfem is gone I’m not very internet/blog savvy. So I wasn’t sure if gendertrender is home base now. Everything seems a bit scattered.
March 16, 2013 at 12:58 am
Hi Syd!
Feel free to post anything anywhere- we all do it all the time. 😛
I was never good at deluding myself either. It is wonderful to talk to other women who haven’t swallowed the kool-aid or are in the process of puking it up.
The loss of the biggest Radical Feminist gathering place in history- RadFemHub- is a crushing blow to the entire movement.
No, GenderTrender is certainly not home base now. GenderTrender is not a radical feminist blog. It is a blog directed to a general audience dealing (almost) solely with examining trends in gender. While I write from a mainly radical feminist perspective, and many readers and commenters do also, GenderTrender welcomes participation by all, including men: something a radical feminist blog would not do.
Until another radical feminist visionary like FCM puts in thousands of hours of work recreating another HUB (and do feel free to step up, any of you!) I would recommend checking out the sites on RadFem Central. Many radical feminist sites are listed there as well as sites that are of interest to radical feminist. All mainly feature original content and are updated in real time. Hope to see you around.
🙂
March 17, 2013 at 12:38 am
Thank you Gallus. I have already learned so much from this blog alone. It has been a real eye-opener and I will certainly check out the other sites as well. I simply could not stand going to Jezebel and feministing any longer!