International Mr. Leather SIR bars heterosexual females from competition

September 26, 2013

Busby Berkeley it aint

Busby Berkeley it aint

We’re all familiar with “The Cotton Ceiling” whereby heterosexual male transgenders advocate for the corrective rape of lesbians who “oppress” them by denying them sexual contact. Transgender cotton ceiling rapists hold male-only (Planned Parenthood sponsored) seminars, write books, host lecture tours, and endlessly spam lesbian websites and blogs with rape and murder threats over lack of male “inclusion” in lesbian social gatherings, lesbian organizing, lesbian events, lesbian music festivals, and – most importantly- lesbian bedrooms.

We never see homosexual male transgenders (M2T) hold seminars, write books, and spam rape and murder threats towards straight men who prefer not to have sexual contact with other men.

We never see homosexual female transgenders (F2T) hold seminars, write books, and spam rape and death threats towards straight women who prefer not to have sexual contact with other women.

We never see heterosexual female transgenders do these things either. But we do see straight women who “identify as” gay men try to guilt-trip gays into allowing them into gay male-only spaces. You won’t see hetero females forming “camp trans” outside gay male musical festivals, patrolling the perimeter with weapons, vandalizing them, cutting water lines, and spamming them with photos of their vaginas and text claiming that their ability to produce eggs is “more manly than their pale and flaccid cocks will ever be” (note to John Waters: that was MY script idea bro!).

The transgender heterosexual female meme for inclusion in gay male spaces might best be observed as an emotive appeal for disability rights. The phrase “men born without penises” is frequently seen in these discourses. In fact, the sole female who has placed in gay male “Leather” competitions was also wheelchair-bound.

Female 2010 International Leather winner Tyler McCormick ““When I first transitioned, I was told I would never be accepted and that I would never be able to take my shirt off in public. Standing here as a strong, confident leatherman is proof to the contrary.”

Female 2010 International Leather winner Tyler McCormick “When I first transitioned, I was told I would never be accepted and that I would never be able to take my shirt off in public. Standing here as a strong, confident leatherman is proof to the contrary.”

This week the gay male International Leather Sir organization clarified their rules to specify that competition was open to gay males only. Seems a change of headquarters to Texas has freed the gay men from the California Gender Identity ordinance that had eliminated the rights of gay men to hold gay male only events. Heterosexual transgender females are upset  (but still no rape and death threats against gay males as is de rigor against gay women by transgender males).

Reactions on the Leatherati website:

“What if they decided to exclude someone on the national origin? Does the board have the right to do that any more then on there [sic-GM] gender identity?”

“I’ve left the men’s community for my own reasons, but it is a part of my history, having VASM, Tony, my Uncle George (Nelson) and the NLA in my life were a part of making me the person I am. I had hoped the changes in the leather community I had seen would become accepted, but I see there is still an effort to keep the men’s community an exclusive member’s club. I question it when I face the same attitude in the women’s leather community as a trans woman, and I’m questioning it when I hear it from my leather brothers. If we (as trans* folk) honour our identity as members of our communities and live it, are we not worthy of honour within the community we commit to? You don’t get to define anyone but yourself. There is more to a man than the size of his dick.

Danielle Moneer Macdonell (formerly known as Spencer leBear)”

“Not only have you shut out our brothers who are trans, but you are also stupidly ignoring the men on the far end of the submission spectrum. They exist, those who might be modified in ways that make them into men you would not think of as “whole”. [refers to gay males who have undergone back-alley castration surgery as part of their “submissive” sex lifestyle.-GM]

“It’s the equivalent of “go away, you have your own space now, don’t dilute our space with your non-XY chromosome selves”. And it seems similar to arguments I’ve heard in the past against people of color, women, and people with disabilities.”

“Right back of the bus. Don’t drink in my water fountain but you can shine my shoes….know what fuck you.”

“Just because you move the contest to Texas doesn’t mean you can discriminate without consequences. The consequences will be more severe than a tax or legal liability. You will have, if you haven’t already, lost the respect of hundreds of leatherfolks who are transgenders, AND our allies.”

“Taking a page out of Michigan women’s music fest…”

“This dares to be Leather? This exclusionary attitude to people already excluded? Disrespecting identities within a community already identifying differently? Creating an unsafe mentality in a world that made them feel safe?

When you think of the textile of Leather, after time, it is supple and and rich, With time, it becomes better, with the proper care and attention, it is treasured. It takes time and effort to care for it. Each mark of wear is a memory. Leather is alive. It has integrity,

It is synthetic textiles that are easily discarded, their wear, while also representative of memories, cannot be restored. It lacks integrity.

It is my hope that 2013 is not year that the Leather community capitulates to the ideal of a synthetic community.”

“It’s not about competing for a patch, it’s about what that patch represents. And what that patch represents is more than just possessing a cock. I am a leatherboy. I am a gay male. I am trans. None of these are contradictory to any other. I’m honestly surprised with how much this hurts me.”

“The notion that trans* men are not “bio”, much less not able to be “legitimately” gay because of their assigned gender at birth is a hateful, narrow-minded, and privileged perspective.”

“If you identify as a gay man then whether you were born with the chromosomes or with a cock should not matter. You are what you think you are.”

“Is this the same Jeffrey Payne who was IML 2009? Who won the title even though he was hearing impaired? Even though there is an International Deaf Leather contest?”

“To anybody with the opinion that this change is a good idea; top hatin’ [sic-GM] because my beard is more impressive than yours.

-A man with a trans status”

“People who identify as male and stand on that stage are more of a fucking MAN than the bigots who insist you have to have the Y chromosome to compete.”

“This “decision” most certainly is discriminating. Persons who are transgender do not wake up one day and decide to choose to be another gender. It is a lifetime of painful emotional and physical conflict.”

“What’s next – making this “Whites Only”?- Zoe Brain

“Seriously? ILSb wants to be the next MWMF? Welcome to obsolescence.” –Mercedes Allen

“Not only is this change invalidating the maleness of transgender men, it’s saying the sir and boy identities are about what’s between ones legs and about what chromosomes one has, and not about what’s in ones heart and mind.”

“IDENTITY, that which is how a person sees themself and labels themself Is defined BY that individual alone. Yes, they may choose to label themselves with already established defining characteristics or labels, but it is still THEIR definition of what it means to them.

The response you typed about is solely focused on sex. Sex being the.scientific label for what body parts you are born with, NOT Gender, which, I may add,is what this ENTIRE issue is about. Gender discrimination. To call it anything else is.both ignorant and invalid.”

 International Mr. Leather 5/27/12

75 Responses to “International Mr. Leather SIR bars heterosexual females from competition”

  1. mieprowan Says:

    I’m inclined to write that I couldn’t care less about this silliness or how they run it, but now I’m wondering whether scholarships are involved…

  2. anon male Says:

    ” lost the respect of hundreds”

    Sure. LOL.

    All the new agey stuff about leather being a textile and alive makes me want to run to PETA — and I hate those fucking dooders.

    • Bruce Lilly Says:

      Interesting. I wonder what happens now. Will these dudes have to deal with countless death threats? I highly doubt this.

  3. Violet Irene Says:

    Back alley castrations…bleeeurgh. BDSM is creepy shit. Even just the “boy” designation is creepy as hell. I don’t understand why that crap gets such a free pass from the gay media let alone the rest of society.


  4. I wonder if there is going to now be a talk of the “Leather Ceiling”.

    I highly doubt it, as men’s sexual boundaries are immutable whereas women’s are always up for negotiation, vitriol and questioning.

  5. Ks Says:

    To answer trans: no a dick, scrotum and prostate do not make a man but our an intrinsic part of our bodies. To deny a minority (ie. gay men) our own space is beyond ridiculous. I don’t think many gay men are going to bow down and submit to the demands of these females who think that all there is to being a man is testosterone shots.

    I’m not into leather (the thought of me wearing that stuff makes me laugh) but nonetheless to compare gay only spaces to historically excluding black people? Offensive to all minorities.

    It is the ultimate solipsism to say that you are a gay man yet process a female body or a lesbian with a male body, especially when our bodies are so important to how we as homosexuals make love. Appropriative and narcissistic. I’m glad of their actions to ban trans, I do not hate them but they do not belong in our spaces.

  6. pantypopo Says:

    “It is synthetic textiles that are easily discarded, their wear, while also representative of memories, cannot be restored. It lacks integrity.”

    And here is my response to all discussions regarding trans inclusion.

    Transgender is synthetic. It lacks integrity. The memories inanimate constructed plastic represents are not the same memories as are painfully skinned off a living animal; heavily beaten into a moldable material; cut into shape; branded, riveted and stitched together; then cured over centuries, with repeated use and abuse.

    Transgender is not authentic. Synthetic medication and cosmetic surgery don’t change your sex.


  7. Bwahaha!

    This makes me laugh. I wonder how many of the lefty progressives are going to take up the cause of these poor excluded females?

    I bet none. It would be interesting if they did though. What would the Big Gay Org do then? Maybe we could finally be separated from the madness that is trans.

    I don’t understand the logic. Gays and lesbians are HOMOSEXUALS. I am not “Homogenderual”. Biological sex matters to people when they engage in sexual activity. No one ever screams about those horrible heterosexuals though. I thought at least if they were going to spray this bullshit about bio sex not mattering then they’d at least be consistent across the board.

    I like females. I find penises gross and weird. I also find people that think vaginas are “holes” that can be made surgically to be deeply disturbed.

    What I find really sickening is that when I try to explain to people why trans bullshit makes no sense, they only ever understand it if I put it in a males perspective.

    If I say to people:

    “It’s saying that a woman is a composition of behaviours and thoughts.But women do not all think the same or act the same. Some women reject femininity and hate stereotypical things that trans put forth, such as make-up and high heels. Those are stereotypes of female behaviour and not universal to all females. Vaginas and XX chromosomes are. Being a woman is a biological issue. Women do not think or act like clones, we are individuals”

    it’s like talking to a wall. Women cannot be separated from a bunch of stereotypes.

    If I say to the same person:

    “It’s like saying all men like beer, rugby and rape because those things are predominately liked (or committed) by males. Those are hurtful stereotypes that do not reflect what it means to be male, there are plenty of men that do not like or engage in those behaviours”

    they suddenly get it.

    It’s infuriating.

    • sellmaeth Says:

      I’m actually homogenderual – I am only attracted to people who hate rape, think rugby is boring and beer isn’t so great. However, I identify as “normal” – because really, why would I be attracted to someone who likes rape? That’d be insane.

    • Alejandro De La Garza Says:

      No, penises aren’t “gross and weird,” but your cunty attitude is.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        @ Alejandro: Aaaaand so much for all those nice things you said at your blog about how the Catholic Church treats women. Sheesh. True colors shinin’ through, and all that.

      • RR Says:

        You are “gross and weird” and a super whiny shitstain on this comment thread. Take your trashy insults and go back to biting your pillow, crybaby.

  8. BadDyke Says:

    “…………but it is still THEIR definition of what it means to them”

    ““What’s next – making this “Whites Only”?- Zoe Brain”

    O DEAR Zoe! As we all know, simple thought experiment — what if you had someone who DEFINED themselves as black (yet was actually white), who then demanded entry into a blacks-only competition? Suddenly the falsity of ‘you ARE what you say you are’ becomes blindingly obvious…………………..

    Plus I wonder what Tyler McCormick thinks of the transabled…………………

    Women do it — we get death and rape threats.

    Gay men do it — those good little submissives just keep worshipping the same ole cock and black leather, whilst still pleading to be let in…..

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      Alan Brain’s continued appropriation not only of women’s experiences but of African-American’s as well serves as a constant reminder of his complete lack of character. He’s nothing more than a common lowlife thief. The fact that he’s Australian and continues to obnoxiously use African-American’s history for his own ends just adds an extra layer of repulsiveness. But like so many other truths, he’s utterly incapable of grasping that. Or caring.

  9. Barmaid Says:

    I am blessed to have been raised by parents who didn’t force gender norms on me. My sister and were never even told that we could do anything we wanted as girls, because it was just a given. It would have been like our parents affirming that the sky was blue. Although I know we were influenced by society around us as well, it would have never occurred to my mother and father to reassure us that we could be doctors and lawyers if we wanted to.

    So that being said, I differ with radfems in that I love, LOVE, the idea of stereotypes like drag queens, drag kings, and leathermen. I’ve never viewed them as the pinnacle of masculine and feminine reality. I don’t think they’re supposed to be. I’ve never looked at Rupaul and thought, “Oh. That’s what I’M supposed to look like as a girl.” It’s the same way I always saw Barbie and Disney movies. It’s a big fun play of gender and sexuality conventions bordering on the parody. It’s when these characters (and yes, trans people, these are absolutely characters) pathologize into an individual identity that shit gets delusional, dangerous and insulting to others.

    When a heterosexual man pretends (that’s right, PRETENDS) to be a lesbian woman it’s insulting. When he tries to enter female-only spaces it’s dangerous. Not every man is a rapist, but when you have demonstrated yourself to already be delusional you have proven yourself to be potentially dangerous. This is not a fucking debate.

    When a heterosexual woman pretends to be a gay man it’s insulting. Pretending to have the same life experiences as a girl vs. a gay boy is delusional. The leathermen contest is a male-only space where (mostly) gay men can get together and act out stereotypes because it’s just fun. They don’t owe an explanation to the vaginas trying to sneak into the bathhouse. (Totally stole that phrase from another thread somewhere.)

    Leather(gentle)men, great job on standing your ground. Now I genuinely hope you lend your support to the ladies and girls of Michfest.

    • Ave Says:

      One of the things that made me leave the mtf world behind was when I saw QueenGutterFace on youtube blabbing on and on about how she’s a man in makeup and saying how she’s discriminated against because of it….and I realized how absurd her claims were. How could she really know what it’s like to a male who wears makeup? and likewise, how could a male claim to be a female and have female experiences because they take hormones and act in stereotypically feminine ways etc.

  10. liberalsareinsane Says:

    So beautifully written GM.

  11. SheilaG Says:

    I’m glad you wrote about this GM! I was wondering when the other shoe was going to fall, if the reverse happened and females wanted to invade gay male spaces, especially such hyper masculine gay male separatist spaces. When lesbians are separatists all hell breaks out, but when men are separatists, it’s just business as usual.

    Anyway, this will be an interesting debate in Gay Male dom. I wonder what they’ll do. I don’t know how many female to trans people actually go into these contests, but I do know many women who formerly said they were lesbians, go all T, and then they turn into these fettish leather boys, BDSM being well represented, and might even be a weird reaction to the T itself as a drug.

    BDSM being celebrated in the gay male community, and infected the lesbian community when so many lesbians rushed to their gay brother’s help in the AIDS epidemic, and then had contact with leather and all that creepiness. Of course, the gay boys never rushed to the AID of Michigan, or defended lesbian only space, or even defended the right of women to keep all male bodied people out. Can’t do that, that would be feminism and respecting female boundaries. But now the shoe is on the other foot, and we’ll see.

    • Joe Clark Says:

      so many lesbians rushed to their gay brothers’ help in the AIDS epidemic, and then had contact with leather and all that creepiness.

      I don’t think the latter point is remotely historically accurate. But, as How to Survive a Plague showed us, most of the women in ACT UP are still alive and kicking and could easily confirm or deny this report.

  12. SheilaG Says:

    Or the boot being on the other foot as the case may be LOL.

  13. SheilaG Says:

    God those men look ugly in those outfits! What a creepy crawly gang! And they think dykes are ugly and creepy! Gee wizzzzzz….

  14. Amos Says:

    Homosexuals flee California for the freedom of Texas? That’s hilarious.

  15. SheilaG Says:

    Hysterical Amos, but hey real men are in Texas, so the ultra-macho proto-fascist Mr> Leather Daddys…. Sheila Jeffreys has powerful writing on the anti-feminism and creep factor of BDSM in gay male womanhating worlds, and the effect this really has on lesbians. Excellent reading, but Texas is where these guys want to go? Well, they don’t get that an end to patriarchy, will also spell an end to gay male hating, but since these men want to support the male supremacy status quo, now they are dealing with a rather harmless minority of Fto trans, who do not threaten with death or rape… nope, that’s what bio-men do when they put on dresses.

  16. Em Says:

    “We never see homosexual male transgenders (M2T) hold seminars, write books, and spam rape and murder threats towards straight men who prefer not to have sexual contact with other men.”

    True, but we–well, OK, I–do see m2t claim they have no obligation to inform their partners, male or female, that they “used to be” male. For m2t seeking male partners, it’s a perfect recipe for getting the shit beat out of them, at a minimum. Don’t let the door hit ya, boys.

    “… there is still an effort to keep the men’s community an exclusive member’s club.”

    Really? Men are trying to keep women out of their clubs? I’m shocked–shocked!

    • Versa Says:

      That was kinda my thought as well. Homosexual male transgenders DO plot to deceive their straight male sexual partners, often resulting in anger on the part of the deceived.

      Totally justified anger, if you ask me. And then the trans get all butthurt by the rejection and think they are the most persecuted of all people ever because a straight male is angry and might hurt them.

      Come and complain to me again when the anger isn’t provoked, “sister.”

      • Brunhilda Says:

        Well yes, it is provoked, and it is also dangerous (under certain conditions).
        Let’s consider the biology of the relationship.

        1) Two lesbians (XX x XX), will generally not use birth control, because they cannot impregnate each other.

        2) Enter a male ‘lesbian’ m2T (XX x XY); if the (XX) lesbian is not informed, she faces the possibility of pregnancy, which means $$$ to get an abortion, or $$$$$$$$$$ to raise a kid/deal with the m2T wanting parental rights.

        Now, let’s look at it from a male perspective:

        3) Two gay men (XY x XY), will again, not use birth control, because no one’s going to get pregnant.

        4) Enter a female ‘gay’ f2T (XX x XY); again, pregnancy can be the result, and while the damage is going to be on the female’s end largely, the male could still end up being on the line for 18 years of child care payments.

        As it stands, if a woman and a man have sex, and the woman is using birth control and the man messed with it and gets her pregnant, it’s considered RAPE, because she consented to have sex with birth control (which he then tampered with).

        Similarly, a m2T screwing a lesbian (without informed consent obviously) is raping her (with very dangerous consequences for the actual lesbian), and it’s not fair to remove that protection for the other situations; as it stands, consent must be informed.

      • Versa Says:

        I think maybe you misunderstood me, although I’m a little confused at this point.

        What I was trying to say was that many M2T try to deceive straight men into having sexual relations with what the straight men believe to be actual women. The M2T are quite blatant and shameless about these tactics; I recall a video somewhere on this site not long ago in which some M2T spouted off for a long time about all this while the camera never wavered from his artificial breasts in a fancy bra. He pointed out that he’s more of a woman than real women because he gives better fellatio or something, which is of course the definition of womanhood, but I digress.

        Anyway, so when a straight man finds out that someone he thought was a woman is in fact not, he’s likely to be angry. I think his anger is totally justified. If I discovered that my lover (I’m in a heterosexual relationship with a man) were not what he claims to be, I’d be upset too. If I discovered he was actually a self-hating lesbian wanting and pretending to be a man, I’d feel very deceived and unable to trust him, and I’d have to look elsewhere for the kind of sexual activity I prefer (with a male body), and I’d have to look elsewhere if I want a partner with whom I can have children naturally. That’s important to a lot of heterosexuals, presumably including a lot of the men that M2Ts try to trick.

        I am not saying that the resultant, justified anger excuses violence, but I am noting the irony of M2T trans men deliberately orchestrating deception that messes with people’s minds on such an intimate level as sexual expression and then complaining that they are such targets of male violence that they aren’t safe using men’s restrooms. Maybe if they didn’t give men a reason to hate them, they’d be a little safer. Again, I’m not condoning violence. But if you want to be treated with dignity, treat others with dignity. Don’t use them and violate them and then be shocked when they don’t like it.

      • GallusMag Says:

        @Versa- I understood you.🙂

      • mieprowan Says:

        This is like kindergarten morality class. “Respect people and don’t tell them lies.” Apparently this has gone out of fashion, in favor of romanticizing trickery and deceit.

        I have a certain amount of respect for hungry people who shoplift from Wal-mart, but this whole business of men pretending to be women so they can sexually trick *anybody* does leave me quite cold, not the least because it works to reinforce the notion that women are inherently dishonest.

      • Versa Says:

        Yeah, if you believe that they are women. Which, sadly, many people do.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Versa, that was perfectly put. I am a strong believer that EVERYONE is entitled to their own physical boundaries, and that includes homophobic bigots too. Bear with me here – what I’m trying to say is that no one should have their body taken advantage of, or used, or abused, no matter if their political beliefs happen to be repugnant to me. If a man is anti-gay, and sleeps with what he thinks is a woman but who turns out to be MtT, he’s angry because his physical boundaries have been violated. The MtT can claim womanhood all he wants, but that sure isn’t how the anti-gay guy’s gonna see it. So many trans people want to live in some sort of la-la land wherein their history shouldn’t matter, but that’s just not how it works when it bumps up against the complicated human psyche.

        Like you, I of course do NOT condone the violence, but I can understand the anger. It’s a simple boundary violation at the root of it all. I say “simple” but it’s actually a pretty extreme violation, in my book.

        As a human traveler in this world, I respect others’ boundaries as best I can, in order to be a decent person. I do this even in those rare times when it’s inconvenient for me, or if it has the potential to end a burgeoning friendship. Why trans people think they should be excused from this is beyond me. I’m not expecting anything from them that I don’t also expect of myself.

        Anyway. I hope this doesn’t come across as some sort of justification of violence, nor as a lesbian self-hating thing. Like you said, Versa, it’s about treating others with dignity. And having the integrity to be honest with one’s partners. I can’t imagine keeping such a huge secret like transsexuality from a partner of mine. It just seems so incredibly disrespectful to their dignity, to their (possible) physical boundaries (maybe they won’t care!), and just…to the foundation of the whole relationship.

      • Versa Says:

        Thank you. 🙂

        I honestly wasn’t even thinking about it from the homophobia angle — which was naive of me. Of course that will contribute a lot to the rage of straight men who’ve been tricked into having sex with a feminine-looking male. But as you say, their boundaries should be respected regardless of the reason for those boundaries. When it comes to sex, of all things, boundaries are extremely important and anyone should always have the right to say no for any reason… or know what they’re saying yes to. Informed consent and all.

        But even someone who isn’t homophobic might be very upset to discover such a deception. I know I sure would! I’d be furious that someone sought to mess with me like that, to “fool” me, to play with my emotions for their own agenda. I’d think that’s unforgivable, and while I wouldn’t respond with murder or battery, I sure wouldn’t have a lot of respect or sympathy for them.

      • anon male Says:

        Versa: I think that more than the lying, the problems happen when “formerly-gay” trans try to bring gay culture to the straight world. Gay male culture is fucked up (see photo at the top of the page). Straight culture is fucked up. But in different ways.

        I mean, Gwen Araujo, for instance: He was a kid so he can’t be blamed for his behavior with 25 year old men (but then look at our new Homecoming Queen trying to date in that same age group).

        But “Dear Penthouse” is fantasy (albeit fucked up patriarchal fantasy) for a reason since most women who aren’t broke and strung out don’t submit to submissive sex with random strangers in random situations.

        So of course a bunch of straight dudes are going to have their minds blown when they meet up with someone who is used to having sex in public parks or whatever and is completely willing to do any-fucking-thing regardless of disease, pregnancy [oh dear], or social standing — indeed, someone who confuses being treated like trash with achieving the social standing they think they deserve.

        Araujo’s best case scenario was him ending up as a Steubenville type victim and they’re asking us as a culture (all of us) to sign off on that, too, because “woman = victim identity.” If only Araujo could blow everyone at a party and live to tell the tale, everything would be perfectamundo and everyone would be happy for ever and ever amen.

        For instance

        http://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/may/27/tvandradio.comment

        “Then it’s off to America, where it’s not such a good place to be transsexual. Gwen Araujo was beaten to death by a group of men, two of them ex-lovers of hers, when they found out she used to be a he.”

        Lovers? How quaint. Is that what we’re calling rapists now? Kids can’t consent to sex with adults.

        Nice job Sam Wollaston, spokesman for The Gays.

      • sellmaeth Says:

        “This is like kindergarten morality class. “Respect people and don’t tell them lies.” Apparently this has gone out of fashion, in favor of romanticizing trickery and deceit.”

        Was it ever IN fashion, actually? Men have always tricked women into having sex with them by telling lies about true love, or intending to marry them, etc. Now they trick other men instead. More risky, just as immoral.

  17. Bruce Lilly Says:

    In the comment section on Leatherati one person said that the T community will me more louder and more visible. I guess that means they will become more violent, more homophobic and more insane.

  18. Ave Says:

    I really do wonder what the trans activists would say if, for example, the event were to just simply be listed as “Cis gay men” only. I mean, after all, the event in that case wouldn’t be saying necessarily that ftms are not men, but just that they only want “cis men” there

    • Adrian Says:

      I’ve wondered for a while now what would happen if women’s events did similar – you want to call us “cis”? Okay then, fine (for the purposes of argument) then MichFest is “ciswomen only.” Okay?

      Of course you know it wouldn’t be okay…

      • mieprowan Says:

        The legal angles are critical here. It’s a slippery slope. First it’s pronouns, then it’s law. It’s erosive to call men women or women men.

  19. Ave Says:

    “We never see homosexual male transgenders (M2T) hold seminars, write books, and spam rape and murder threats towards straight men who prefer not to have sexual contact with other men.”
    you are right about this, but what they do instead is post on their personal pages (e.g. their facebook pages) the names and numbers of “straight guys” they’ve slept with that have pissed them off in one or another. and they call the guy gay when they get mad at them (but not before they get mad at them) lol.

  20. Ave Says:

    the way they talk about leather reminds me of the bdsm people with their stupidity

  21. Izzy Says:

    I want to point out that the Federal Government will recognize people who have transitioned– I am currently female, I was born female. But if I were to get a sex change, I could file to be legally recognized as a “male.” I would even be 100% legally allowed to marry women, in any state in the US of A because I am legally male marrying a legal female.

    So, if the Federal Government recognizes people who have transitioned, why don’t you?

    • Motherhood Says:

      Because you can’t legislate other peoples perceptions so that the accommodate another persons mental illness and fetish. They can’t pass a law that forces people to perceive Oprah as white even though she may really feel white and live as white full time. In other words we don’t have to. And that begs the question, why should we? Nobody is required by law to role-play in another persons sex fantasy. You were born nursing a big old boring hard on. Good luck with that. The federal goverment changes “gender marker” and gender is “social” and a theroy–like chaos, we do not have to believe it. Sex is biological and can’t be changed. I hope that makes some sense to you.

    • ThistleDew Says:

      Because we know what legal fiction is.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction

    • Teal Deer Says:

      Read around on this blog, in the articles and in the comments. Every aspect of objection has been discussed at length.

    • GallusMag Says:

      @Izzy- the federal government that “recognizes” that two women should not be entitled to federal marriage benefits? Are you a fucking idiot or what?

    • sellmaeth Says:

      “am currently female, I was born female. But if I were to get a sex change, I could file to be legally recognized as a “male.” I would even be 100% legally allowed to marry women, in any state in the US of A because I am legally male marrying a legal female.”

      And you see this as an argument why people should recognize people who have transitioned, and not as a proof how totally messed up politics are if you have to undergo surgery to be able to marry the person you love?

  22. Ashland Avenue Says:

    “Busby Berkeley it ain’t” – ROFL!

  23. jo Says:

    That image of the female transsexual in the wheelchair makes me sad…
    To properly prove that she is indeed a real man, she sought out the most unhealthy, dysfunctional, violent (yes those three words are my view of BDSM) macho, sexualized anti-feminine environment she could find.

    The situation between ftms and mtf’s are different: This might be a minority group’s space which should be respected but it’s not a safe space from women like women’s spaces are safe spaces from men because women are not actually a violent threat to these gay guys.

    Also sorry guys but eww at all that white flesh pressed into unflattering little black underwear…

    • sellmaeth Says:

      Yeah, I really don’t think women lose anything by being excluded from this.

      I’m just sad there seems to be no outcry about this. Of course, we know why – men’s boundaries are sacred, etc. Still, it makes me sad that there is so little fairness.

  24. GallusMag Says:

    “Leather contest changes spark upset
    Posted on 27 Sep 2013 at 9:00am

    Recent changes to ILSb/ICBB to dissolve regional contracts, limit trans men from participating have ‘literally torn the community apart’

    TICKED OFF | Jeffrey Payne-Roy, who bought the International Leather SIR/boy competition a year ago, is being criticized for requiring contestants to be cisgender gay males. (Arnold Waynes Jones/Dallas Voice)

    ANNA WAUGH | News Editor

    The local leather community is upset about a recent change to the Dallas-based International Leather SIR/boy and International Community Bootblack organization that will limit transgender participants.

    The Dallas-based ILSb/ICBB board of directors announced several changes last week that included dissolving contracts with regional producers, preventing appointed titleholders from running for ILSb/ICBB and requiring the contestants to be cisgender gay males.

    The decision to exclude the transgender community was at the center of debate this week.

    Jeffrey Payne-Roy, president of the board and co-owner of the Dallas Eagle, bought the contest a little more than a year ago and it was held in Dallas last month. He said after the board announced the changes a week ago, it sparked a heated debate among the leather community. He declined to comment until after an emergency board meeting Thursday evening, which was closed to media.

    The board of directors released a letter Friday, Sept. 27, explaining that it had unanimously rescinded the transgender exclusion in the ILSb competition during its meeting Thursday evening. The letter also explains the reasons behind the changes.

    However, Payne-Roy told the online publication Leatherati that after new management took over, the ILSb/ICBB board felt the changes were necessary to continue their vision of the organization. Payne said that ICBB, which had a transgender winner when Henry James won in 2006, will remain open to any gender.

    “We are not turning our back on any segment of the community,” Payne-Roy told Leatherati. “It is okay for an international title to belong to a gay man. But we welcome everyone to the party as far as the weekend events and so on. As far as the Leather Sir and Leatherboy, it will belong to the gay male community. ICBB will again have no change there because it is a community title that is open to anyone.”

    The cisgender male requirement dates back to the International Drummer Boy competition. ILSB was originally a contest for cisgender gay males until it moved to California five years ago, where the law required organizers to open up the contest for anyone who legally identified as male.

    The city of Dallas has a nondiscrimination ordinance dating back to 2002 that prohibits discrimination in public accommodations based on sexual orientation and gender identity, which is included in the definition of sexual orientation.

    Rafael McDonnell, communications and advocacy manager at Resource Center, volunteered at this year’s event at Crown Plaza with the Dallas Bears. He said he’s concerned that the cisgender requirement will violate the city’s nondiscrimination ordinance, especially since the event is expected to return to Dallas. As for whether the ordinance would apply to the event because its owner and organization are based in Dallas even if the contest is held outside city limits, he said the situation becomes complicated.

    “It certainly would complicate things,” McDonnell said. “But then you run the specter of having the city of Dallas investigating an LGBT organization for violating its nondiscrimination ordinance, and that’s something nobody can win. … Even if it they were to find that it wasn’t discrimination, it would still look bad.”

    The feedback from community members became so heated since the announcement that Payne-Roy posted on his Facebook on Monday that he was shocked by the emails mentioning “threats of physical harm to myself and/or my family.”

    “You have taken this way too far and the next one I get will be dealt with by the authorities,” he wrote. “Passion is one thing; fanatical behavior is another.”

    Mo Snow, a transgender member of the local leather community, hasn’t competed in the contest before but has come out and supported the events. He said the changes seemed sudden from the new management and it reflected poorly on them.

    “As a package, it seems to be a fundamentally bad management decision,” he said, adding that input from the larger leather community wasn’t sought. “It seems really rash. There was no town hall meeting.”

    Over the past week, Snow said the leather community has been mostly offended by the trans exclusion, which shows how much times have changed and how much more supportive the LGB community has become of the trans community.

    “At least in the leather bubble, it’s kind of exploded,” he said. “From everything I’ve seen, it’s been negative.”

    Snow said he respects the need for gender-specific spaces, such as women and men’s organizations, but he said if Payne-Roy wanted to continue the Drummer Boy tradition, he should have brought back that contest.

    “Why not revive [Drummer Boy] instead of taking away something that’s been open to everyone and trying to rewind it 20 years?” Snow asked. “But the difference is that what he did wasn’t going to create a space. He took it over and kicked people out. You can’t not take that personally.”

    Mark Jiminez, who has been competing in leather contests since 1990, declined to comment on the controversy other than to say that he and husband Beau Chandler will be competing in the Gulf Coast Leather Sir/boy and Community Bootblack contest.

    “And we are 100 percent confident that the board of directors for the contest will diligently look at the issue and come up with a well-thought-out decision,” Jiminez said.

    Hardy Haberman, a longtime LGBT activist and prominent Dallas leatherman, said the reasons behind the changes are unclear and have divided the community.

    “My take on the whole this is the rules change, I understand if they want to change the rules. It’s their contest, they can do whatever they want,” he said. “I think it is phenomenally insensitive and I think it relegates transgender men to a third sex and that’s not what they want to be.”

    The change about ending the contracts with local producers, who are often individuals and bars that put on a contest, judge it and sponsor the titleholder, was also a surprise, he said.

    “That’s the untold story in this and I’m not quite sure what the reasoning is,” he said.

    While there is a new trans leather contest, Haberman said International Mr. Leather dropped cisgender rules years ago and Tyler McKormick was IML titleholder in 2010.

    And with ILSb being more for players, with IML being more of an image contest, Haberman said many people have started to take sides, with most opposing the rule changes. But even if the board decides to undo the changes, he said he thinks the damage to the competition has already been done as many people have vowed not to support it in the future.

    “Surely they never would have thought that this would become such a big deal,” Haberman said. “Because it has literally torn the community apart.”

    This article appeared in the Dallas Voice print edition September 27, 2013.

    http://www.dallasvoice.com/leather-contest-spark-upset-10158011.html

    • GallusMag Says:

      Everyone remember Dallas Voice News Editor Anna Waugh?

      https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/shame-on-dallas-voice-news-editor-anna-waugh/

      Actually I thought today’s piece was reasonably balanced and well done. Maybe Waugh has taken criticism to heart. Improvement!

    • Versa Says:

      “ILSB was originally a contest for cisgender gay males until it moved to California five years ago, where the law required organizers to open up the contest for anyone who legally identified as male.”

      It’s funny how the law requires a contest to be open to anyone who “identifies” as male, but doesn’t require it to be open to, say, *anyone*. Discrimination against trans* is more offensive and unacceptable than discrimination against females.

      Wait, that’s not funny at all. It’s outrageous and absurd, but sadly accepted.

  25. Alejandro De La Garza Says:

    I don’t understand the trans shit and I don’t care to understand. I’ve found trans people to be obnoxious and self-righteous. The gay / lesbian / bi community has enough trouble dealing with the myth that we’re just confused about our gender and need prayer and medication. Then the trans community muscled their way into our civil rights movement and demanded a piece of the equality pie off our backs. Jeffrey Payne is an acquaintance of mine and he was trying to set some boundaries with that leather contest 2 years ago. No one seemed to be too upset that death threats were made against even his pets.

    Considering there’s so much violence against males in this country (child abuse, circumcision, capital punishment, etc.), I shouldn’t be surprised. I was especially angered when the Violence Against Women Act was modified to include trans women. Men (straight, gay or bi) were left out. As usual, we have to deal with violence against us on our own.

    Memo to the trans community: THERE IS NO 3RD GENDER. Get over yourselves!

    • GallusMag Says:

      Oh lookie! A gay MRA. Concerned about a tsunami of male sexual violence against other men sir? Do you fear rape when you walk the streets at night, you deranged MRA fuck? ‘Men have to deal with Male Violence by blaming women- Boo Hoo Hooooo!’

      • Meg Says:

        He’s more than just a gay MRA, he’s a complete hypocrite who complains about Rachel Dolezal but calls himself “Chief Writing Wolf.” He claims to have indigenous ancestry, but he sounds just like any other abusive liar looking for special snowflake status. He can bank on people believing him because he’s a sperm producer. Funny how race fakers only get away with their charade as long as they’re male.

    • RR Says:

      You were especially angered that men were not included in a Violence Against Women Act? LOL

      “As usual, we have to deal with violence against us on our own.”

      Because women should be using our energy and resources to deal with man-on-man violence, right?

      Tune in Tokyo, we need an Earthbound shuttle from Planet Gay MRA! Get yourself a fucking ticket, dude.

    • Teleope Says:

      “Memo to the trans community: THERE IS NO 3RD GENDER. Get over yourselves!”

      I’m going to step out on a limb and suggest that perhaps this is the problem–trying to fit trans into male or female when there should be a third gender as it was that way for thousands of years and even so continues in some more traditional and tribal societies up through the present day.

      The recognition of the third gender and the accommodation of the third gender in their own spaces. Let me add how I think this would cut down on the fetish crap in women’s bathrooms and spaces where we don’t want heterosexual male crossdressers leering at us. It would cut down on it! The hetero crossdressers would need to use the third gender bathrooms along with the gay males that have now transitioned to women too–and we know how homophobic so many of these crossdressing hetero males are. They would straighten up their acts very quickly if forced to associate with gay post-ops publicly. Nope, the hetero crossdressers would dress like the men they are in public if we truly recognized, as so many societies have throughout history, a third gender. Fetish is a choice, not an orientation.


  26. @Alejandro De La Garza

    “Considering there’s so much violence against males in this country (child abuse, circumcision, capital punishment, etc.), I shouldn’t be surprised. I was especially angered when the Violence Against Women Act was modified to include trans women. Men (straight, gay or bi) were left out. ”

    ” I was especially angered when the Violence Against Women Act was modified to include trans women. Men (straight, gay or bi) were left out. As usual, we have to deal with violence against us on our own.”

    WTF does this mean? Does Alejandro De La Garza think that men should have been included in the Violence Against Women Act?

    These are very confusing sentences. Yes, male on male violence can be very deadly. The female sex isn’t responsible for male on male violence.

    I’m also outraged that the Violence Against Women Act was modified to include males. It’s a fact that males who cross dress or identify as transgender offend at the same rate as other males. In fact, males who say they are “women” have been convicted of torturing and raping women (Richard, “Sherri”, Masbruch tortured his victims with electrical wires), murdering women (Kosilek, Kenneth Hunt, etc.), molesting children (Sandy Jo Battista, Paula Witherspoon – too many examples to list here), and murdering children (Synthia China Blast).

    In states with hate crimes legislation, if we exclude race, the only time violence against a woman is considered a hate crime is if the woman was born with a penis. Currently, in Washington State Douglas, “Donna”, Perry is on trial for first degree murder of three women. It was nothing more than senseless killing. There could be more murders for all we know, but he is charged with at least three murders. If someone murdered three transwomen (males) and dumped their bodies by a river bank because he thought they were “pond scum” , transgender activists would be all over it. You can bet that trans activists would be screaming “hate crime”, “hate crime”. Since the victims were just female, it doesn’t count as a hate crime. The “woman” has to be born with a penis before it’s a hate crime. If someone tied two transwomen (males) up, and tortured them with electrical wires before sodomizing them, trans activists would be screaming “hate crime”. Since the victims were only female, it doesn’t count.

    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/transgender-serial-killer-donna-perry-blames-murders-on-former-male-identity/

    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/ccwf-stop-male-inmate-richard-masbruch-from-being-housed-in-a-womens-facility/

    Again, male on male violence can be deadly. I agree that it is sad and tragic. I don’t want males or anyone harmed, and I’m sorry that this happens. It really is sad because women are often nothing more than collateral damage in countless wars and violence caused by men. Instead of bitching to women about male violence, why not hold men accountable for their violence. Since it’s unlikely that this will ever occur based on thousands of years of history, men, as Alejandro states, will just have to deal with it on their own.

    • Meg Says:

      “The female sex isn’t responsible for male on male violence.”

      THANK YOU.

      Let’s pretend for a moment that we dropped all our problems to protect men from other men.

      Even if we were to tell men to stop being violent with other men, would they even listen to us? Uh, NOPE. Men don’t listen to anything women say, as can be proven by visiting MRA websites that consistently make everything all about men without regard to women’s opinion about anything.

      How the flying fuck are we supposed to end male violence without addressing the fact that male-on-male violence is still male violence? If you want to end male-on-male violence, you’ll have to end male violence, and men don’t want to end that anytime soon.

      So stop being violent, dudes. (I can’t expect men to actually listen or care about me saying this, which is exactly why demanding women to end male violence is ridiculous. Only men can end male violence, by choosing not to be violent.)

  27. FeistyAmazon Says:

    I support IML in its born male only stance. Gay men have started feeling the pressure us Dykes have all along for at least 3 decades on trying to protect our Dyke and womon only spaces such as Michfest and other Lesbian events while watching ALL of our Lesbian culture slowly disappearing and being destroyed within and without from the trans juggernaut.
    t
    Now the gay men in this last decade are starting to feel the effects of all those FTMS, some who were nothing but faghags in their former lives, others who were Dykes but with the narcissitic trans process begin worshipping the male within and without.

    I.have seen gay leathermen complain in the fagrags about trans”men” going to their events and sex parties about 5 or so years ago..so NOW the shoe is on the other foot and perhaps NOW they can understand what us Dykes been dealing with for decades with the damn MTFs. Though they NEVER supported us or our RIGHT to have our Sacred Michfest SEPARATE FROM ALL BORN MALES.


  28. Glad to see that somewhere along the line, MTFs have finally admitted that some of their number sabotaged Michfest. It is my understanding that at some point MTFs had their own music/culture festival, but nope, that wasn’t enough for them. They just HAD to invade the space of lesbians who are women born women. Goddess FORBID that we dykes have our own space without the presence of the MTFs. This and comment after comment on various topics show the hatred that the MTF activist bunch have for real women.

    Now it’s happening to gay men with the FTMs. Hate to say “we told you so”. I’ve seen and heard complaints from gay men that some have been harassed because they are not attracted to/do not want sex with FTMs. Get a clue. Gay men want to have sex with MBM–that is why they are GAY. Lesbians have the same hassle from MTFs.

    Some (not all) trans are becoming a problem and it needs to be dealt with.


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