Belgian Woman is Euthanised for Gender Dysphoria after completing “Treatment”

October 2, 2013

Nancy/Nathan Verhelst from her Facebook Page

Nancy/Nathan Verhelst from her Facebook Page

From the Telegraph:

“By , Brussels

11:11AM BST 01 Oct 2013

Nathan, born Nancy, Verhelst, 44, was given legal euthanasia, most likely by lethal injection, on the grounds of “unbearable psychological suffering” on Monday afternoon.

Wim Distelmans, a cancer specialist who carried out the euthanasia, is the same doctor who late last year gave lethal injections to congenitally deaf twins who were frightened they were also going blind.

“I was the girl that nobody wanted,” Mr Verhelst told Het Laatste Nieuws newspaper in the hours before her death.

“While my brothers were celebrated, I got a storage room above the garage as a bedroom. ‘If only you had been a boy’, my mother complained. I was tolerated, nothing more.”

Mr Verhelst had hormone therapy in 2009, followed by a mastectomy and surgery to construct a penis in 2012. But “none of these operations worked as desired”.

“I was ready to celebrate my new birth,” he told the newspaper. “But when I looked in the mirror, I was disgusted with myself. My new breasts did not match my expectations and my new penis had symptoms of rejection. I do not want to be… a monster. ”

The case will revive Belgium’s debate over medical euthanasia as statistics show a steep year on year increase in the number of patients killed by doctors after a request to die.

Belgium recorded a record number of 1,432 cases of euthanasia in 2012, up 25 per cent from the previous year and the country is currently deciding whether to extend “mercy killing” legislation to children.

Professor Distelmans, who carried the euthanasia of Mr Verhelst, is the same doctor who last December gave lethal injections to twins Marc and Eddy Verbessem, 45.

The two men brothers were both born deaf and asked for euthanasia after finding that they might also both go blind. After having their request to die refused by their local hospital, Prof. Distelmans accepted on the grounds of ‘unbearable psychological suffering’.

“The choice of Nathan Verhelst has nothing to do with fatigue of life,” said Dr Distelmans. “There are other factors that meant he was in a situation with incurable, unbearable suffering. Unbearable suffering for euthanasia can be both physical and psychological. This was a case that clearly met the conditions demanded by the law. Nathan underwent counseling for six months.”

Last week, figures showed that the number of Dutch people killed by medical euthanasia has more than doubled in the 10 years since legislation was changed to permit it, rising 13 per cent last year to 4,188.

Euthanasia carried out by doctors at the request of a patient is only legal in three European countries, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.”

From the Daily Mail:

“Suicide rates among transsexuals and those who have undergone gender reassignment surgery are high with some suggesting the rate may be as high as 31 per cent.

Chris Hyde, professor at the University of Exeter, who has studied the issues surrounding sex change operations, told MailOnline: ‘Research we conducted a decade ago found there is huge uncertainty over whether changing someone’s sex is a good or a bad thing.

‘While no doubt great care is taken to ensure that appropriate patients undergo gender reassignment, there’s still a large number of people who have the surgery but remain traumatised – often to the point of committing suicide.

‘While we haven’t looked at the situation since then, given the difficulties in researching this area, it is likely that the same issues remain today.’


177 Responses to “Belgian Woman is Euthanised for Gender Dysphoria after completing “Treatment””

  1. Bluecat Says:

    Oh this is awful! “I don’t want to be a monster” – but it was the family treating their daughter like a monster that started this whole thing off. Internalise your family’s disappointment that you exist as you are, internalise the misogyny that surrounds you, internalise the doctors’ promise that there’s a surgical fix for you – a ‘cure’ that will allow you to trade up and meet the fantasy expectations that you and everyone else you meet has. What a ghastly story.

    • BadDyke Says:

      What this womans mother apparently said afterwards:

      “When I saw ‘Nancy’ for the first time, my dream was shattered. She was so ugly. I had a phantom birth. Her death does not bother me,” she told Het Laatste Nieuws newspaper.

      “I will definitely read [the goodbye letter] it but it will be full of lies. For me, this chapter is closed. Her death does not bother me. I feel no sorrow, no doubt or remorse. We never had a bond.”

      • Violet Irene Says:

        Wow, there’s the REAL monster.

        How sick that the powers of society didn’t help this woman who was an abused child, once, but simply mutilated her and then actually murdered her. Actually, literally took her life.

  2. IceMountainFire Says:

    This minute I heard this story on my local radio and came here to post the link – I’m glad you already have got this!

    What kind of quacks are involved in this! This one sentence “I was the girl nobody wanted” HAS to be enough for any psychiatrist to rule out the mysterious “brain sex theory” in favour of self-hate due to misogyny! Don’t tell me that this poor woman suddenly had this epiphany of being the unwanted girl on her deathbed and she never said something like this before! This is a blatant, open and unmistakeable declaration of the most external motivation for “wanting to be a boy”. If this does not stop the tranny cultists, what will?!

    And of course, the doctors slice this poor woman up back and forth, and finally an another eager doctor is happy to kill her!
    I’m sad and angry, and I truly look forward to the moment when the cult collapses and the victims are going to sue the everliving light out of all responsibles.

    • Austin Peck Says:

      Tranny cultists? You just acted like his mother!

      • IceMountainFire Says:

        Her mother. And no. Try again.

      • C. Says:

        No WAY. The person you replied to:
        Said something you find offensive (to you, not to the poor dead person.)

        The mother:
        Raised her child to believe she was worthless and showed her no love or support.

        Can’t you see the difference? It’s hugely important.

        Another example of a similar difference:
        Lesbian radical feminists make open statements disagreeing with the trans* political platform.

        Some men murder transwomen. This is an action, a violent one, They are CRUCIALLY different. STOP THE HYPERBOLE.

        Trans* people who take their OWN lives are NOT murdered. In this case, the transperson DID NOT.

    • Adrian Says:

      Seriously this! And it’s too late now but I can’t help but wish as always people wouldn’t be so desperate to think “so then, I’ll kill myself” but rather they should think “fuck the haters! I am fine but YOU are the problem! I’m going to run from my poisonous circumstances and make a new life elsewhere…”

      It’s just so terribly sad.

    • jiee Says:

      It’s a he, he didn’t regret transitioning. Like all treatment of severe disorders, the treatment given is not always going to cure the condition. He killed himself because he saw himself as a monster, as he could never become male enough for himself. I’m sure his mother left some deep wounds in how he was treated when he grew up as a girl, but he did not transition due to misogyny displayed by his mother.
      Suicide is very common for trans people, either because they weren’t given treatment in time (or non accepting families), or because of the simple reason that they can’t make themselves being born the sex they identify as.

      He refers himself as “the girl” or “she” in the past, as that was what he was, he was a girl when he was young.
      I don’t think his mother was any different from TERFs, I think she expressed the TERF ideology quite well.

      • Versa Says:

        “He refers himself as “the girl” or “she” in the past, as that was what he was, he was a girl when he was young.”

        Whaaat???

        I thought transes were BORN in the wrong body! I thought they were ALWAYS the opposite sex (on the inside where it counts!)?

        So people can just pick and choose whether and when to be trans? Is that it?

      • IceMountainFire Says:

        Radical Feminists want girls to be loved and supported.
        We never tell a girl she deserves less than her brothers because she is a girl.
        We never are disappointed when a girl is born.
        We never install so much self-hatred in girls that they will do everything to escape it.
        We will not tell unhappy girls and women that mutilating their body will make the pain go away.

        The fault in this story is clear: The lousy family and your party, eager to leech on unhappy girls and women for your own selfish reasons.

        Trans are not born, they are made. And in this case for the most despicable reasons of all.

      • jiee Says:

        I’m not entirely sure if this reply goes to the right place now, but to “Versa”.

        Some will refer to themselves as the sex they were before they transitioned, as they don’t regard themselves as the opposite sex until after they’ve started to present and medically transitioned into the opposite sex.

        There are studies on this that suggest differences between male and female brains, where as transsexual patients brains have more similarities with the sex they identify with than the sex they were born as. So people do not choose to be the opposite sex, no more than people choose to be gay (which has even less evidence to have a biological origin). At some point it’s likely that they’ll be able to use a brain scan to diagnose trans people early in their childhood, much like they use a brain scan to confirm epilepsy.

      • Versa Says:

        Oh, lord. Okay.

        Doctor: “Ms. Jones, give it one more big push… the baby’s almost here… and… ” [baby cries] “All right! You have a beautiful, healthy baby!”

        Ms. Jones: “Is it a boy or a girl?”

        Doctor: “Oh, we won’t know until we do the brain scan.”

        ——- later, after brain scan complete ——-

        Doctor: “Ms. Jones, you have a daughter! But unfortunately, she has a penis. We can turn that into a vagina so she’ll never even need to know she was born in the wrong body. I can fit the surgery in on Tuesday. How does that work for you?”

      • ibleedpurple Says:

        I don’t think his mother was any different from TERFs, I think she expressed the TERF ideology quite well.

        Are you fucking serious? Her mother abused her because she hates women. We do not hate women. Given her back story the chance that Verhelst’s transition had nothing to do with internalizing that hatred comes close to 0%.

        Stop trying to use people’s misery to prop up your ideology. Disgusting.This is why people like you stand in the way of suffering individuals and efficient treatment.

      • BadDyke Says:

        “There are studies on this that suggest differences between male and female brains, where as transsexual patients brains have more similarities with the sex they identify with than the sex they were born as.”

        Yep, and they’re rubbish. How do I know? Because I’ve read the original paper and the flaws are very obvious, as I’ve discussed in depth elsewhere.

        As are the studies that claim significant differences between male and female brains in the first place. Try looking up neurosexism………..

        “I think she expressed the TERF ideology quite well.” A blatant lie, but hey, not surprised given that the trans cult seems to be pretty damn good at not caring very much about little things like the truth, and simple facts. Reality IS what we say it is, or what we want it to be — is after all the founding dictum of the cult. Hence a little thing like claiming TERFS hate girls for being female is no stretch.

      • Siobhan Says:

        There are studies on this that suggest differences between male and female brains, where as transsexual patients brains have more similarities with the sex they identify with than the sex they were born as.

        jiee, this claim gets brought up over and over on this forum. There is NO science behind it. The brains of trans people are not at all unlike those of others of their natal sex. There are a small number of brain abnormalities found in studies of trans which are typical for people with mental disorders such as body dysmorphia and schizophrenia.

      • Bruce Lilly Says:

        Dammit dude you are fucked up in the head. TERF ideology. Omg. Yeah Trans erectile rage fugitives or team embracing realistic femaleness. Go away troll.

      • GallusMag Says:

        “Trans Erectile Rage Fugitives” for the win! lolol

    • DK Says:

      Actually you did act like his mother, and you’re a dumb piece of shit for blaming “tranny cultists”, whatever that even means, instead of the parent/s for being abusive.

      Seriously, fuck you for responding to a group being demonized by demonizing another group.

      • GallusMag Says:

        @DK- Do you support the killing of Nancy?

      • IceMountainFire Says:

        The parents were abusive, and I blame them for that. This is entirely out of the question.

        But it was your party who promised the unhappy young woman a fraudulent way out of the pain. It was your party who wielded the scalpel to cut off her breasts and cut around on her vulva and vagina.

        YOU PARTY abused her even more by telling her her femaleness indeed is a problem: well done, you finished the parents’ job here! Get rid of that disgusting femaleness, you’ll get rid of your problem!

        YOUR PARTY then had her physically mutilated, because you are effing unable to tell the difference between “born in the wrong body” and “deeply unhappy because of abuse”.

        But of course you are unable to make that distinction, because “born in the wrong body” simply does not exist. Your party, very much in the manner of a cult, prey on unhappy women and children to conceal your ulterior motives which are nothing but autogynephilia and your particular brand of misogyny.

  3. Delphyne49 Says:

    At first, I thought this was from The Onion or that my comprehension was off because I haven’t had my morning caffeine.

    This is just horrible – “I do not want to be…a monster.” It’s heartbreaking. Even more shocking and heartbreaking is her mother’s statement.

    “When I saw ‘Nancy’ for the first time, my dream was shattered. She was so ugly. I had a phantom birth. Her death does not bother me,” she told Het Laatste Nieuws newspaper.

    “I will definitely read it but it will be full of lies. For me, this chapter is closed. Her death does not bother me. I feel no sorrow, no doubt or remorse. We never had a bond.”

    • Versa Says:

      Dear lord, it just gets worse and worse. Guess what, heartless mother — I never had a bond with your daughter either, never even heard of her before, and *I* am bothered by this. I am grieving her tragic and unnecessary death which YOU CAUSED. You have blood on your hands.

      • red Says:

        I would take these translations with a grain of salt. I think they are very badly done possibly using google translate, and out of context to boot. Let’s wait before jumping on the mother-witch bandwagon.


  4. This is completely terrifying, how tragic for this woman. She was killed by a male-worshipping society.

    And then it says that laws might extend to euthanization of children…it’s horrifying to contemplate but this could set the precedence for a day when children are killed for being gender non-conforming, as a ‘mercy kill’. My god this right here is a big leap towards genocide.

    • ibleedpurple Says:

      My thoughts exactly. Torture people into wanting to be euthanized, dress it up as a benevolent act of mercy, emphasize that some people are just not made for this world and just have to suffer without attacking those responsible for this suffering, lather, rinse, repeat.

  5. BadDyke Says:

    If it had been a suicide, that would have been sad enough, but an official, sanctioned euthanasia! The supposedly wonderful medical profession finally admits that even if the wonderful surgery doesn’t work, well, we can still sort you out, just in a rather terminal way.

    “unbearable psychological suffering” First at being female, then when you realise that the NICE doctors were lying all along, and the surgery DOESN’T solve all your problems.

    How will the trans report this one do you think? Never REALLY trans, needed a better doctor, or just ignore it?

    We have the reports from Chris Hyde:
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth

    …whilst the gender clinic docs just keep claiming — nothing else works, have hormones/surgery else they’ll ALL top themselves.

    Whilst attempts to even talk about other avenues get pounced on by the trans collective as transphobic:
    http://transactivist.wordpress.com/2011/04/05/psychiatrists-plan-transphobic-conference-in-london/

    Because:

    1) It included Julie Bindel

    2) These naughty doctors will insist on saying stuff like:

    “The experience of many psychiatrists, psychoanalysts and psychotherapists working with transsexual patients is that they are individuals who, for complex reasons, need to escape from an intolerable psychological reality into a more comfortable fantasy. By attempting to live as a member of the opposite sex, they try to avoid internal conflict, which may otherwise prove to be too distressing.”

    This DOESN’T say that facilitating the fantasy (i.e. agreeing to surgery) might not be a valid treatment, just that the doc won’t pretend that it isn’t anything other than a fantasy.

    Rather than:

    ” Okay, you’re a laydee ‘cos you say you are, is next Tuesday okay for your first hormone shot?”

    • Austin Peck Says:

      Why does this fall on the trans community? Where was family services when this child was born? Where was a good psychiatrist when this child was being mentally and physically abused every day? Where was all the services in the prior 44 years of Nathan’s life? Just because he chose to end his life, quite frankly is shocking, but it is NOT your life, it is NOT your business and at least now he is at peace with himself. Unless you walk a day in his shoes we all know nothing about what was inside of him and how he felt every day of his life.

      MAYBE PEOPLE READING THIS WILL REALIZE THAT SOMETIMES YOUR WORDS HURT – KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND STOP BULLYING HUMANS!

      I do hope his book will be published. I think it will give everyone some insight on what happened to him and how he really felt.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Austin Peck: Bullying humans=mourning their death.
        FUCK YOU.

      • truck driver logic Says:

        @Austin. We’re in this LGBT coalition TOGETHER. The “T” part of the coalition is committing suicide at a rate somewhere around thirty percent because some malevolent M.D’s are exploiting you. Us making it our business and saying these “hateful” things is CARING ABOUT YOU AND LOVING YOU, you fucking dipshit. Think of everybody here on this blog taking you by the throat and, no, not choking you to death, but yanking your head out of your ass. I know it feels to you like we’re hating you but we’re really not.

      • BadDyke Says:

        ” Just because he chose to end his life, quite frankly is shocking, but it is NOT your life, it is NOT your business and at least now he is at peace with himself. ”

        Yep, trans cult all over, don’t you DARE care about anyone ever , don’t you DARE suggest that someone killing themselves is tragic and we should mourn that — unless of course they killed themselves for the RIGHT reasons (i.e. cos TERFs supposedly hate them), rather than the WRONG reasons (i.e. their parents misogyny).

        God, what a crowd of cruel, heartless bastards!

  6. wildwomyn Says:

    I really feel for this poor woman who was so horribly abused by her family and then was abused by the medical industry and she couldn’t deal with the results. So sad.

    • Violet Irene Says:

      Why not give the child up for adoption if she hated her from birth? I just don’t understand some people.

  7. Versa Says:

    Oh, my God. That is so sad. Her family should be euthanized as well.

    Such a tragedy that she was treated that way, and that she internalized that feeling of inferiority instead of standing up to it and proving her own worth.

    I trust she’s in a better place now.

  8. Em Says:

    Suicides among trans should surprise no one. These people are mentally ill, and those who transition are the sickest. The treatments currently being pushed miss the mark completely, and in many cases worsen the illness.

    A 31% suicide rate should be an emergency, but apparently the emergency is that 6-year-old boys can’t use the girls’ loo.


    • “A 31% suicide rate should be an emergency…”

      Agreed whole heartedly, this is a thoroughly disturbing statistic😦

      • mieprowan Says:

        Watch out for unsubstantiated statistics. For this to be valid, the study would have to be financed, run, and published by people with no vested interest in the results, and cover a large cohort. In this case, that would mean tracking a large number of people over many years, people who all consistently identified as trans during that time, and documenting their rates of confirmed suicide attempts. Didn’t happen.


      • mieprowan, you are amazing.:)
        as soon as i read that i thought and realised how silly it is to have that statistic plucked from seemingly no where.

      • Em Says:

        @mieprowan 8:19 Fair enough. The authors of the study from which Hyde probably took that number, acknowledge the number may be sketchy.

        For my present purposes–casual discussion on a blog–a precise figure is not important. I maintain it’s likely to be high, and for the reasons I stated. Even more, I am appalled that trans activists insist these numbers are high because people are MEEEEN, so we should feel sorry and play along so as not to hurt their feelings, instead of grappling with the truth that they and their fellows need psychiatric help.

    • jiee Says:

      Try to look at transsexualism as being deformed. If the deformation can’t be fixed, the person will remain depressed and possibly suicidal, and be at a high risk of suicide.
      It is quite similar, though being transsexual without transitioning doesn’t bring stigma, as being deformed would, but the internal self-hatred would still be there.

      Not being allowed into the girls bathroom is contributing to the high suicide rate, discrimination does make people more depressed and they will lose self-worth. Funnily enough, I think a trans girl would be at a higher risk of violence done towards her than her being violent towards others, even in the bathroom (though, if she looks like a natural born female I don’t think it’s very likely to happen).

      • Versa Says:

        “Not being allowed into the girls bathroom is contributing to the high suicide rate…”

        Oh, lord. Really? People are gonna kill themselves over use of a particular toilet?

        What about all the girls whose space is no longer respected and have to allow the presence of biological males? Maybe they’ll kill themselves too. It would make as much sense.

      • BadDyke Says:

        “Not being allowed into the girls bathroom is contributing to the high suicide rate, discrimination does make people more depressed and they will lose self-worth.”

        Typical male speak, because of course us girls learn from very young NOT to expect that sort of self-worth, whereas all the boys are trained to think they’re the lords of creation.

        Not beingv allowed into the ladies room causes suicide makes about as much sense as TERFs hating on them causes men to murder trans folk.

        “discrimination does make people more depressed and they will lose self-worth. ” By which logic, practicaly every women on the planet should be dead, given the relentless discrimination and erosion of self-worth…………Except of course trans logic steps in again, and you know, the shit isn’t so bad because we’ve got USED to it, so don’t suffer as much as the menz when they suddenly discover what it is like to have all us ladies be MEAN to them and not let their hairy arses in the womens loo…………

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        “Not being allowed into the girls bathroom is contributing to the high suicide rate….”

        OMG OMG OMG Oh no you DIDN’T.

        I can’t roll my eyes hard enough. God, you’re a self-centered, entitled dipshit. How trite can you possibly be? Oh, wait – you answered that question with the above comment.

        To recap: Males having tantrums and saying “Well, then I’ll just KILL myself if you don’t give me what I WANT!!” Same old, same old.


      • The only thing though it isn’t a deformity and this is a false comparison. It’s surgeons mutilating and removing perfectly healthy body parts and/or people ingesting black market hormones,

  9. mieprowan Says:

    I am curious about how M2T transactivists are reacting to this atrocity. Brushing it under the rug, I’ll warrant. This is as good a case as I’ve seen for outlawing SRS. Good medical ethics would demand reliable reversibility of such delicate procedures, which is impossible for obvious reasons. Also, WTF about a country that allows docs to euthanize patients but can’t seem to notice such vicious and crazed child abuse? The poor girl was treated like freaking Elephant Man from day one. But no, they couldn’t be bothered to recognize her precarious mental state; it’s under the knife with her! 

    Meanwhile, from what I keep reading, butch lesbians, who could have potentially  provided a caring and supportive community for this woman, are endlessly marginalized and undermined here in the USA. I expect things are not better in Belgium. 

    The medical community is deeply culpable in their ongoing efforts to make a buck off of the suffering of innocents.

    • jiee Says:

      By the same argument treatment for schizophrenia or cancer should be abolished, as it’s not guaranteed to cure the patient.

      • Versa Says:

        Does the cure for schizophrenia involve mutilation and sterilization? Does it, really?

        Granted, cancer treatment can be quite harmful to one’s health, but if you already have cancer, you’re pretty much screwed anyway, so you might as well try it.

      • jiee Says:

        Anti-psychotics comes with side effects like lessened motor skills, due to spasms, other treatment such as ECT is likely to damage their memory. I think sterility can happen too, since a side effect is excess prolactin (which can cause a prolactinoma which in turn can cause sterility and erectile dysfunction).

        Those transsexual people who transition after 16-18 are quite screwed, so whatever treatment they undergo won’t be especially harmful. I believe the majority of those people will at some point in their life kill themselves, unless they were lucky and have good life circumstances (relationships, education etc).
        So no, it’s not especially different from cancer.

        Do note that not everyone transition for legitimate reasons, a lot of older people who transition are seemingly doing it for sexual reasons, and some aren’t quite aware of what they’re doing (autism, DID etc, yes, it’s not that uncommon among them). Some younger ones who have BPD can transition for bad reasons, though obviously they can still be legitimately transsexual, but tegretol can cause transsexual feelings to disappear in those who have BPD (I’m not sure if this is good, because if they go off the drug those feelings will come back).

      • BadDyke Says:

        “By the same argument treatment for schizophrenia or cancer should be abolished, as it’s not guaranteed to cure the patient.” Except conventional treatments have to be able to show SOME evidence to back up their claims and use (unlike, say, homeopathy or other quack pseudoscience). Except when you go look at the DATA that shows that SRS is actually a viable treatment, rather than just what everyone is trained to want and expect — the data is very sketchy and the practitioners of this supposed cure don’t seem that BOTHERED,. When big pharma acts like that, we know why (follow the money), but seemingly when surgeons do that, we ‘re not supposed to comment because it is what the patient WANTS and DEMANDS………

        Add in that SRS is the supposed surgical cure for a psycholgical condition, unlike any other treatment that I can think of. Add in that it actually causes physical HARM and removal of healthy organs (unlike any other surgery I can think of), add in the fact that loping off healthy limbs for the transabled is still pretty mcuh a total no-no, and so on and so on………….

      • Tobysgirl Says:

        I actually see an analogy here. Rather than cleaning up our environment, our treatments for cancer involve radiation and poisonous chemicals, which will eventually create more cancer. Rather than at least trying the protocol developed by a doctor in the mid-twentieth century who reported a cure rate for schizophrenia of 75 to 85 percent, we give people with mental illness horrible drugs which they often do not want to take.

        In these situations — cancer and mental illness — we do not care to look at the ROOT of the problem, we just want to slice, dice, and poison our way to “health.” We’re back to the capitalist philosophy of making big bucks from human suffering.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Jiee, as a cancer survivor, I find your analogy incredibly offensive. But I don’t expect someone with your limited worldview and staggering ego to be able to grasp why that is. You’re just bound and determined to make yourself the ultimate victim, aren’t you? What would you do without that sweet, sweet oppression?

  10. red Says:

    this is reading like this:

    1.) It was the mother’s fault she was never accepted.
    2.) she was never really transsexual
    3.) bad surgeon

    the Telegraph? the Daily Mail? C’mon women.

    • Austin Peck Says:

      Hi Red

      totally agree with (1) and (2)!!

      • GallusMag Says:

        Disgusting hateful person dancing on this woman’s grave.

      • anon male Says:

        Hi Austin, you’re a fucking asshole. And dumb. “I agree with exactly the bad points that you’d anticipate me agreeing with.”

        My favorite part about blaming bad mommy is not only how it disappears the guy who stuck his dick in mommy, but the army of women who undoubtedly cared for Nancy every step of the way. The women who changed her bandages after dudes cut into her. The women who had to scrub her apartment after her death to get it ready for the next inhabitant. All the women who’s care just wasn’t enough, who never had a meaningful say in the decisions that were being made, but still had to clean up the mess.

        And I know women who HAVE been put in such situations.

        Choose your own employment adventure: Crazy FTM runs out of the hospital stark naked in a snowstorm. True story. Do you follow her into the woods, risking your own job (against policy to exit the building) and safety? Or do you just hope the cops find her trail in time? Whatever you do, it sucks, and if it works out, you won’t become famous or be hailed as a hero.

        But it *was* a dude who prepared the lethal injection or whatever.

        And for all we know, he — or a less famous version of him — is preparing to do the same thing to some trafficked Ukrainian woman after she’s outlived her usefulness, too, because pain and desperation = consent. And all perfectly legal there, I’d imagine.

        There’s probably a rape-industry special psychologist who is paid to sign off on it. “Natalia has had a rough go at it because she had a bad mother and she wasn’t a ‘true sex worker’ so her identity didn’t let her do her job effectively.”

      • mieprowan Says:

        This comment could become an excellent blog post.

      • GallusMag Says:

        @miep- go for it.

      • mieprowan Says:

        The comments permalink on the date, I just realized that.

        Okay, I’ll do something with that and link back here. thx.

      • redbird Says:

        Het Laatste Nieuws.

        “Nathan Verhelst was born Nancy into a family of three boys. The newspaper, which said it had spoken to him on the eve of his death, reported that he had been rejected by his parents who had wanted another son.”

        Slightly different perspective right? The “parents” wanted another boy. Well well, who is it that usual makes that decision? And imposes failure and disgust on the mother. Who knows what this woman really said, or felt? And who knows what the other cirumstances were. Was she raped by her loving husband?

        The comments are reported, if true, are chilling. I don’t believe they are fully properly quoted, or explored.

  11. Guls Says:

    ‘The medical community is deeply culpable in their ongoing efforts to make a buck off of the suffering of innocents.’

    +1.

    In so many ways, on so many occasions.

    My mum’s ‘new breast didn’t match her expectations’ following her mastectomy and reconstruction post cancer treatment. Thankfully, she hasn’t become suicidal – but then few women do, relative to men, in spite of rates of depression 2-3 times ours.

    Merely one reason I wonder if so many apparent traits aren’t gender-conditioning-related, rather than biologically-innate.

    I’ve been prescribed any number of medical ‘cures’ for my depression and anxiety, few of which have worked as well as well as meditation. When they do work the docs seem pretty oblivious as to why or how. Failure and success raise the same in NHS prescriptions, though; pay the same wages.

  12. truck driver logic Says:

    I agree Meip: Trans “Medicine” is a fraud.

    • Austin Peck Says:

      I do not agree – trans medicine is not a fraud.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Yes it is. It is a human rights crime.

      • Motherhood Says:

        Oh it is the biggest fraud since Dr Mengle was practicing–he was deeply interested in this branch of fraud–did quite a few experiments–and was found guilty in absentia of human rights crimes and sadism. My prediction, in less than a decade the suicides go up and the violence against women the medical community will not even be able to give TG a bandaid–their malpractice insurance will be through the roof. And “transition” will happen about as often at the frontal lobotomy. Which might be a better choice for most of these guys.

      • GallusMag Says:

        @Motherhood- this is the joke about insurance paying for SRS. Most SRS surgeons (and there are less than 200 worldwide) DON’T ACCEPT insurance. Too much accountability for them.

      • mieprowan Says:

        Really? Like with piercings and stuff.

      • Motherhood Says:

        GM I did not mean surgery or SRS, –I meant all other treatment. All the follow up and “therapy” to keep the delusion alive. That special time when the client and the therapists convince each other there is such a condition and turn that into billable hours. A friend is a shrink–his area is human sexuality. He said if a shrink has even an inkling of any violent ideation they can be sued if Miss Pricilla goes off the rails and hurts someone. He said he would not take these guys on because they are too much of a liability and the suicide rate. He has a piece in Psychology Today–No Such Thing as a Male or Female Brain. Very light piece.


      • I don’t see how any human being with any sense of empathy and value for human life could see the removal/mutilation of healthy body parts as anything BUT a fraud.


  13. This is so tragic. Her life has been taken away from her from start to finish. I hope she is at peace now.

  14. Austin Peck Says:

    So very sad, I cannot imagine. Being transgender myself, I really have to question the entire process of his diagnosis of his gender identity disorder, given the family history in this particular case. To say he was abused since birth is an understatement! Having said that, I for one would not place “blame” on a botched transgender surgery for his wanting to die and believe the title is very very misleading, certainly it is NOT the only reason he wanted to die. On a personal level, I place the blame on his horrific mother and his family. This just goes to show that anyone can be a parent, but it takes love and a lot of guts and balls, to be a parent. Some people just should not procreate!

    • GallusMag Says:

      Genderist blames woman’s mother. Shocked me not. Disgusting comment asshole Austin.

      • Austin Peck Says:

        GallusMag, – Yes I entirely blame the mother and family in this case!

        But it gives the na sayer’s a cause!

      • mieprowan Says:

        Far as I can see there is no solid info on the family presented in these articles, just a few quotes; the “I was the girl that nobody wanted” quote and the one with the mother saying she was unmoved by her daughter’s death because they never bonded. Also, this was all, I gather, not originally printed in English.

        What we *do* have is the docs prescribing SRS, the docs fucking up the SRS, and the docs disposing of their error.

        Who is at fault? Which plays better in the press?

        Your conclusion is to vilify the mother. I’ll admit I freaked when I read that part too, but this blog is (among other things) a kind of workshop for people wanting to unlearn internalized misogyny. You can be one of the workshop participants or one of the case examples. And sometimes both.

      • Austin Peck Says:

        GallusMag – you seem to have a lot of anger toward transgender people and the community of medical professionals. You comments, with the classy language put you in class all your own! Keep up the good work!

      • GallusMag Says:

        Your comments are beyond disgusting on a post about this woman’s tragic life. Shame on you. Terrifically sad.

      • GallusMag Says:

        “classy language” Go fuck yourself shitfuckass.

      • Austin Peck Says:

        You forget that the tragic life started with his MOTHER – to ignore that simple fact is shameful

        RIP Nathan – you made the right decision for you

      • Versa Says:

        Wow. And to think that transsexuals blame *us* for making them want to kill themselves!

      • GallusMag Says:

        This may be the sickest comment I have ever received on this blog. And that’s saying something.

      • cerulean blue Says:

        It’s always the mother, right, Austin? Because this poor woman was created by parthenogenesis, and had no father or males in her life who helped create the unbelievably misogynistic, hateful world she grew up in. Shame on you for playing the most worn out card in the deck. Shame on the “doctors” who did these surgeries and then decided to end the life of a person so deeply in need of compassion (not death!), and shame on everyone in the TG community who eggs on people who are in such need of mental health care. And even more shame on people like you who cry “misdiagnosis” when things don’t turn out as rosy as you’d like us all to believe. (Which is approximately never, on both counts.)

        If you haven’t figured it out yet, Austin, we hold you and your community responsible, from the lame-ass gender warriors commenting in every gender related thread out there, to the Machiavellian social engineers who see transing young gay children as the way to make TG more palatable to a reluctant public, to the social workers and doctors making a career out of other’s pain. ALL of you.

      • Motherhood Says:

        GM, I don’t think Austin likes Mothers too well. Remember Anthony Perkins in the police holding room at the end–I would not hurt a fly. And “botched” surgery–not to blame–a necorsis of dead black tissue that had to be removed–no no that is not at all to blame. I wish honestly there were photographs and every young girl who is thinking of this could click on them and see what the “transformation” looked like.

    • red Says:

      Most girls are unwanted. We learn to accept that as normal. It’s what makes us chum for assholes like you.

    • BadDyke Says:

      ” Having said that, I for one would not place “blame” on a botched transgender surgery for his wanting to die….”

      Yep, PROTECT the mythical trans-facilitating surgeon, despite the direct quotes from the woman herself (at least as repeated over here although I can’t find them in the dutch reports at the moment.)

      From the dutch source we have:
      “Nathan ontdekte – al dan niet onder druk van zijn familie – als tiener dat hij zich beter voelde als man. “Ik scheerde me druk, droeg liefst ruige jeans en werd verliefd op vrouwen.”

      Which translates (according to Google) as:

      Nathan discovered – sometimes under pressure from his family – as a teenager he felt better as a man. “I shaved me pressure (I think this probably should be translated as something about shaving her head??) preferably wearing rugged jeans and fell in love with women.”

      Note the ‘under pressure from family’ AND the falling in love with women.

      In the same article:
      “Maar zijn echte droom was een geslachtsoperatie. Die kwam er in drie fasen: een hormonenkuur in 2009, wat later een borstamputatie en tot slot een vervangpenis in 2012. Maar geen van beide operaties verliepen naar wens.”

      But his real dream was a sex change operation. Which came in three phases: a hormone therapy in 2009, which later became a mastectomy and finally a replacement penis in 2012. But neither of these operations ran as desired.

      The misogyny is blindingly obvious, the casual cruelty of the surgeons and doctors supposedly treating her, and the final coup de grace. The lovely doctors responsible must feel SO pleased with themselves (and the sick thing is I think they really, REALLY, believe that they always gave her the best possible treatments they could right up until the end.)

      And look, the trans lobby says the same! You’d think they were on commission or something. Carve and cut ’em, you can always finish them off if it doesn’t go quite right, you brave, BRAVE surgeons.

  15. feral opera company Says:

    I posted this story at the L Chat, and a few minutes later, my access to the board was denied. I looked again via a proxy, and the thread had disappeared. So I started another thread, asking why I was blocked, and I was blocked again. Apparently, it is forbidden to post on this topic on a lesbian chat board. I assume there is a moderator who is transgender and doesn’t want lesbians to read what happens to women who hand themselves over to the gender doctors.

    • Pegasus Olson Says:

      You are not alone! After posting a few trans-critical comments in one or another of the trans-related threads (including the one about Autostraddle), I’ve been banned. I check about twice a week, and am sometimes able to access the board for a few minutes until I get another ‘Error: Access blocked’ message. There is definitely a mod at L Chat who is banning people for not toeing the trans line; I have literally never said anything the slightest bit controversial there EXCEPT regarding trans issues.

      Harrumph!

      This is not quite on-topic (sorry!), but it’s an example of how they operate, fwiw.

      • red Says:

        Plus ca change. I’ve been blocked on a native feminist FB, by a non-native “two-spirit” male to trans.

        They’re omnipotent. Or there’s only one and he’s got multiple spirit disorder.

      • Bruce Lilly Says:

        They can’t be criticized. They DON’T want to be criticized. Because of reasons. If you do – either the trans brigade turns into a crazy mob or they ban you from chats/forums whatever.

      • LJ Says:

        Whilst I don’t believe I am yet banned from The L Chat I have certainly noticed a change in recent months in that threads about trans issues that express even the slightest hint of scepticism about trans politics and ideology are immediately locked down. This was not the case earlier in the year.

  16. ibleedpurple Says:

    Okay, I have to admit that I do not understand the reluctance to blame her family. It seems to me that many transsexuals have abusive families in their life history. Of course, it is to expected that some of them will try to exacerbate and invent a past that justifies their illness. And I know that mother-blaming is an easy way out to not have to talk about the systemic mechanisms which factored into this woman’s decision to euthanize herself.

    I also have the feeling that the writer from the newspaper is pretty conscious of the euthanasia problematic but open politicking is not allowed in articles supposed to disseminate information, no matter who you write for – this is reserved for opinion pieces and editorials. (Yes, if you can you will use subtle means to emphasize your opinion, e.g. the writer could have decided not to hightlight to such an extent how controversial euthanasia is but he still did.) And Google Translate, really? That translation could have come from an informant who can speak Flemish. I think it’s not necessary to resort to such accusations to not have to talk about the possible impact of parental abuse if it comes from the mother. Besides, seeing as she only acccused her mother reporters do not actually have any other choice than to take this for granted. The only other option would have been to say: “Verhelst did not mention her father or brothers.”

    I do not see how the writer implied that she was not a true transsexual. By writing about the abuse she reported about herself? I’ve read a case study in which a guy who was abused by his father developed four different gender personalities eventually deciding for the “woman” personality after his wife said she didn’t love him. A transsexual nonetheless. Abuse and rejection are triggers and I think we do not want to argue that every transsexual is a middle-aged fetishist because that is simply not true. The diagnosis rests on gender dysphoria and that’s about it.

    And, Austin, by calling that women “he” you are basically saying to her: “Yes, men are worth more than women. If you had been born a man your mother would have loved you. But no, you were born a woman and deserved it all along.” You do not understand why she transitioned because it does not fit in your ideology and you do not understand why calling her “he” is abusive because although you make such a fuss about the people posting here you still do not understand that the problem is not transphobia but misogyny.

    • redbird Says:

      How do you know she only accused her mother, and how do you know it was an accurate translation, and since when did news sources of any calibre, let alone these rags, bother with full comprehensive unedited contextual quotes? This woman had not only physical surgery, she was brainwashed. This is all true, even if the mother said what was quoted and worse. We know the garbage these FtMs are fed.

      • ibleedpurple Says:

        If you have better information, please do share but I am not going to make assumptions based on things I cannot prove.

      • red Says:

        You already have, which is my point, in the above post and others.

      • ibleedpurple Says:

        So I was making assumptions. And? This does not make me different from anyone else in this thread.

      • redbird Says:

        No it doesn’t. Sadly.

        All you high octane thinkers, and I’m a frontal lobe damaged octogenarian and I figured it out.

      • redbird Says:

        I will point out again, that we don’t yet know what that woman said, but you are making assumptions she’s done wrong, and we shoudn’t group her in with women who are enslaved in prostitution, for example have I got it righ?

        Well I think this woman has had all this kangaroo court made on her without any of us who have only read the news reports knowing for sure wgat she said, what she meant, and now it’s beginning to look like (and I missed it, not having had that problem myself or knowing anyone personally) that this woman likely was suffereing from Post-Partum Psychosis.

        Here’s the latest case of that in the news:

        What astounds me is not knowing for sure, only from the compromised media reports and delivering the verdict and summation, like a judge.

        Both mother and daughter were victims. There is no place for a rating scale here.

        This really upsets me, to see such intelligent feminists missing this.

    • ED Says:

      Brilliant comment ibp thank you!

  17. ibleedpurple Says:

    It is not calling women out as abusers that undermines female solidarity, it is those women abusers themselves who undermine female solidarity by making trusting each other harder. You do not need to protect these poisonous individuals who took every ounce of the little power left to them and used it to beat down other women because they cannot have power over themselves.

    • Mary Sunshine Says:

      ibleedpurple: bloody brilliant. thank you for that. ♡

    • redbird Says:

      What power do mothers have? Wow you’re really reaching IBP, and I totally disagree that your comment is wonderful. It’s actually women blaming and hating. Whatever this mother said, she existed in the same sewer the daughter did, and was created by it. If true, her comments are cruel but NOT beyond belief for the reality of women’s lives. Married older women, of another generation form most of us here, in a very stereotypical culture and that’s all before we get to the murderous trans culture.

      • ibleedpurple Says:

        Even oppressed people are responsible for their actions. This mother might have been under considerable duress but if you think that she would not throw you under the bus for the sake of the males who feed her think again.

      • red Says:

        Yes, that is my point. I think this mother is Stockholmed. I thnk she is as damaged as any woman is in this patriarchy who has not had the benefits of the radical feminist lens. And look, even some of those who have, still blame women.

    • ED Says:

      This X 1000 another great comment!

    • redbird Says:

      Actually yes I do need to protect them, because they are me, and they are you.

      • ibleedpurple Says:

        My own mother has been abusive towards me. But some things are just no excusable – driving your child to suicide is one of them. There is no dearth of mothers who stood up for their children despite being threatened with male violence and that under more deprived conditions than in Western Europe. Instead of apologizing for abusive women over and over again because they supposedly couldn’t act any other way we should celebrate those women who refrained from destroying other women’s lives although they knew they would be punished for their decision by men. How do you think such women feel when they see others excused for something they would have never done?

      • Versa Says:

        YES.

        Thank you.

        I don’t think we do women any favors by assuming that it’s normal and excusable for them to hate their daughters as a result of societal misogyny. Most women are better than that, especially in such places as Western Europe.

      • red Says:

        There are no women in this patriarchy who “would never have done” something in service of the patriarchy. And my defense of her, is based in

        1.) our not knowing exactly what she said or did, or why
        2.) knowing all women are part of the patriarchy,
        3.) not pre-judging her, aka “predjudice”, and
        4.) not acting out of my personal hurt experience, aka projection.

    • ibleedpurple Says:

      redbird, are you actually replying to the comments I wrote or what you imagine my comments imply? Because it seems to be the latter and I feel like I am arguing against a straw-woman version of myself constructed by you. You are assuming an awful lot and it’s unseemly to imply that much in order to discredit me.

      Nowhere did I lay the blame exclusively at the mother’s feet. When you belong to a family that lets post-suicide comments like the ones reported by the Telegraph be published the abuse did not come from one person alone (assuming that they are valid). I merely expressed my concern that there seemed to be a certain tendency to protect Nancy’s mother just for being a woman. I felt the mother’s complicity or cooperation in the abuse of her daughter was being excused in the grounds of her belonging to an oppressed group. We are not talking about Aileen Wuornos here – the woman who I am supposed to have sympathy for acted only in her self-interest, willing and able to sacrifice her own daughter to keep her status. If I excuse this what else will I have to excuse in the future? That’s just a slippery slope I am not willing to become comfortable with.

      You are not responding to the really juicy bits in my commentary where I try to make people understand that if you protect women like this there is a high chance they will mow you down in return. Radical feminism should not promote martyrdom or become a suicide commando where women are supposed to sacrifice themselves for the good of those who have proven that they will destroy other women for the sake of men.

      But most importantly, actions run along a gradient of responsibility and to say that everything a woman does is influenced by the patriarchy to the same extent is simply wrong. Putting on high heels is not the same as declining to defend women under attack by men and both are not the same as actively participating in and directing the murder of other women. A woman cooking for her SS husband in Nazi Germany to make him battle-ready is not the same as a woman volunteering for concentration camp duty culminating in murder and torture. Some of the women belonging to the last category were even executed. It’s because there were war criminals, not victims. Being wifey is not a war crime. Get it? (There is a doc which actually blames women for facilitating Nazism because they fed their husbands, so this is not an example I made up.)

      Also: I really have to emphasize the irony in underhandedly accusing me of having the opinions that I have because of hurt feelings. Surely, this is because I dared to mention that my mother has been abusive. How come it’s not mother-blaming if you do it?

      • redbird Says:

        I don’t defend because I’m expecting anything back.

      • redbird Says:

        Huh? Where did I blame my mother for anything? I’m trying to stay on topic here: mothering in general, specifically, in a patriarchy.

  18. Versa Says:

    At the risk of being unpopular, I’m going to say that I agree with Austin on that point. I do blame the mother. Admittedly all I know of this case is what I’ve read online and it’s possible I don’t have a full or accurate story — goodness knows reporting can be misleading for any number of reasons — but if the reports are even sort of true, then this woman’s mother was a monster. Her comments on her daughter’s death were atrocious.

    I won’t hesitate to add that the father was likely not much better, and probably equally worthy of blame (and quite possibly more so), but since we don’t have any real mention of him in the reports, there is nothing specific there to analyze. The focus in the reports is on the mother.

    I suppose one might say that the mother, too, was a victim of society’s sex bias to such an extent that she was programmed to see females as inferior, and this caused her to undervalue her daughter. That argument might carry some weight, but ultimately I don’t have a lot of patience for women who hate women. I expect them, of all people, to know better. I expect them to know how awful misogyny is on a level that non-females can’t, and to do whatever they can to reject it, not to propagate it.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I will also say, if it matters, that I wish my mother had done more to protect me from my brother’s abuse. In one particular instance, when she was faced with direct evidence of his molestation of me, she reacted by saying that I was stupid for my role in it. Never mind that he was the one doing it and I was about half his age. She didn’t say anything negative at all about what he did; all of her judgment was reserved for me. And it makes me angry that she would blame a female victim rather than a male perpetrator *especially* because she was herself female and should know better.

    Females who hate females, in my view, are the worst thing that can happen to our cause. They lend credence to misogyny. After all, if some WOMEN are biased against women, it must be because they’re inferior, right? Women of all people would know what women are like on the inside, and if they disapprove of women, well then, obviously women suck!

    I grew up aware of society’s bias against females, and my gut reaction was to prove that bias wrong. I think that should be every female’s gut reaction. But many not only tolerate the bias, they feed it.

    Sorry if this has turned into a bit of a rant. The bottom line is that I think, in this case, it’s reasonable to blame Nancy’s mother. But probably also her father, although we don’t have as much information about him.

    • Versa Says:

      One more thing — I want to be clear that I’m not saying that we shouldn’t also blame the doctors for their role, or the existence and acceptability of SRS. Those were significant factors that contributed to this woman’s tragic death. But the problem originated with her family, as far as I can tell. Their abuse caused her to seek help and ultimately SRS.

      One of the problems with SRS is this whole idea that you can change your sex (which you really can’t) and that doing so will somehow make you who you “should” be. Poor Nancy thought she could become male, and that in so doing she would earn her family’s love. But her efforts at healing were very much focused in the wrong direction… a direction that shouldn’t even exist.

      Doctors and mental health professionals should be promoting acceptance of healthy bodies, not mutilation of them. This woman’s doctors should have recognized that what she needed was a healing of her mind and emotions, not an alteration of her body. She needed to know that females are perfectly valid, just as good as males… wonderful and awesome and to be celebrated. She needed to understand that her family’s abuse of her reflected something wrong with THEM, not her.

      I don’t say that lightly; I know it’s difficult to eradicate programming from early childhood. But at least that would be the right direction to go. Instead, the doctors chose the easy route, the quick fix of surgery.

      Yes, it’s despicable that doctors, charged with healing and “doing no harm,” would basically reinforce the abuse and misogyny by saying, “Oh, you want to be male so that you’ll be a more important person. Sure, we can help you with that!”

      But that doesn’t let Mother (or Father) off the hook for creating this woman’s agony in the first place.

      • redbird Says:

        We have evidence for what the medical profession does. All we have for what the mother supposedly said and did is three second rate news source equivalent to tabloid journalism. Do you take the word of the Daily Mail for your news source on other subjects? They don’t write news, they write yellow journalism. And it’s possible she did say that, but what underlies her behaviour, and was it the reason for this death? I say no. Millions of women are chewed up by the misogynistic world filled with hate for us. This is another one.

      • Versa Says:

        I disagree with you, redbird, and I don’t think you need to put me down for basing my opinion of someone on what she was reported to have said, when I acknowledged that my opinion is contingent on the truth of such reports. There’s more evidence that she was a bad mother than that she wasn’t. And if she really did have that attitude toward her daughter, I don’t wonder the poor daughter ended up seeking death.

        “And it’s possible she did say that, but what underlies her behavior, and was it the reason for this death? I say no. Millions of women are chewed up by the misogynistic world filled with hate for us. This is another one.”

        Really? Misogyny excuses a mother from treating her daughter as unwanted and unloved because she wasn’t a boy? You know, most mothers don’t do that, and they too live in a world of misogyny.

      • redbird Says:

        Misogyny excuses her, because she knew no better because she has not been radical feminist ecucated. She is speaking from only what she knows. Wrong, yes, but she is a woman, the same as those who being prostituted tell us they love serving 15 men a day, it’s empowering. Same entree different sauce.

        But I truly apologize if my comment made you feel put down. I’ll be more careful, but will not change what I say. The mother is a victim too. Some possibilities: she’s one woman, with a husband and three sons. She was supposed to deliver another, how was she impregnated, how was she treated, and excuse me but where would YOU put a lone daughter in a mess of testosterone with the likely atmosphere that was in that house? A room above the garage thank you. Yes, please.

        This woman, may she rest in peace, was soaked in trans bullshit woman blaming.

      • redbird Says:

        I want to point out, unless I’ve missed something, we are getting the ONE source for the mother’s comments. This is pissy journalism. They are not interviewing and quoting the mother, the news sources are quoting each other. So if the quote is wrong, partial, mistranslated whatever, it just gets repeated. This is gossip, not news. Until someone different interviews the parents and the doctors, we are just getting the same quote, digested through a different reporter, and then that mess is quoted by someone else ad nauseaum.

      • redbird Says:

        Most mothers don’t do that? Are you kidding? All the mothers in India, all the mothers in China, all the mothers in certain African states, all the Christian right-wing evangelicals, all the 2nd generation Chinese mothers with PhDs in Boston who have abortions until it’s a boy….

        And you don’t even know for sure what the mother said. None of us do.

      • Versa Says:

        Darn right most mothers in the western world do not treat their daughters as unwanted and unloved, and say that their daughters’ death “doesn’t bother” them.

      • red Says:

        There is no “western world” anymore Versa. I don’t know where you live but the second largest population sector where I live is Chinese. Then East Indian. Then African American, then aboriginal (who by the way, have never had the privilege of Western world in spite of being its original inhabitants). Your “western world” is a cozy white comforter that doesn’t apply anymore.

      • Versa Says:

        You’re welcome to stop talking down to me.

        I know plenty of non-white immigrant types who come to the U.S., assimilate, and love their daughters.

        I really don’t know why you’re so married to the idea that most parents don’t love their daughters. I’m guessing it’s some sort of victim mentality with you.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Please stop personalizing, both of you. You don’t mean it, so stop. x

    • jiee Says:

      “At the risk of being unpopular” – I don’t know why you’d need to say this, the mother was a horrible person, denying that would be absurd.

      Siding with the mother, or removing blame for her, would be sexist. You shouldn’t put less blame on somebody only because they are female, or be biased in believing that a female did or didn’t do these things. If you do you’re sexist, probably due to misogynistic reasons (as you don’t believe females are capable of doing such things, because you believe in gender stereotypes to be of truth, thus only men can do such things), and you should stop calling yourself a feminist.

      • redbird Says:

        Maybe read around on this blog? You’re just dropped your ignorance into the graduate seminar on transsexual/transgender. This blog is the most founded, critical analysis of the trans travesty that exists online, pure scholarship done by Gallus.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Jiee, you idiot, what the women here are doing is realizing the effect that patriarchy had on the mother, and how that may have colored her actions. This is a nuance to not only feminism but also to psychology that is obviously too deep for you. Your childishly simplistic interpretation has no place here.

  19. integritymatters Says:

    Someone earlier on the thread said take the translations with a grain of salt. I can read Dutch and have Dutch friends, and I can tell you that the translation is pretty accurate. The real question is, did the mother actually say this? Unfortunately, there have been other parents of very disturbed people who killed themselves who have said similarly rejecting things publicly. I think we need to realise that some parents are so emotionally sadistic and psychopathic, that they’d have no shame in saying such things. This doesn’t mean we need to jump on the bandwagon of fixing all the blame for the death on this mother.

    • mel Says:

      One bizarre translation had the mother saying, “I had a phantom birth.”
      What she really said was more like: “It was a difficult delivery. I especially blame the hospital for not showing me my child immediately. I had such great expectations, but when I finally saw the baby my dreams were shattered. So ugly! I’d brought a monster into the world. A ghost. Dark eyes, fragile little arms. I didn’t want her at all but took her home anyway. Abuse did occur, yes. I heard it happening at night, but the few times when I went to the door and knocked, they shut up. It was just as much her fault because she never told me about it – until it was too late. . . .”

      http://www.she.be/gezondheid-en-relaties/aid1463902/moeder-reageert-op-euthanasie-moe-getergde-zoon-zijn-dood-doet-me-niks.aspx

      I haven’t seen any follow-ups to the later report about the mother’s accepting Nancy’s gift of money to pay off her debts and enjoy the rest of her life. The reactions among Belgians are generally along the lines of “the mother is actually the monster – she doesn’t deserve to be called a mother”, and some have speculated that the mother was drunk during the interviews (which as far as I know weren’t televised) or else deeply disturbed.

      • Versa Says:

        Thank you for sharing that. I was very puzzled by the “phantom birth” comment. I think it’s really sad that anyone, especially a parent, would judge a newborn baby by its appearance. I don’t know if Nancy’s brothers were similarly ugly at birth but I wonder if her being a girl made her looks more important. I even wonder if she would have been more accepted — despite being female — had her mother deemed her beautiful. Females are valued on beauty, even by their mothers, far too often. Either way, it’s a tragic incident.

      • Motherhood Says:

        Mother is not a title you get because society thinks you deserve it. This sounds like postpartum psychosis and failure to bond with the baby. There is also a horrific family dynamic that is rare and causes one child to become the scape goat. That no doctor or teacher or neighbor noticed a problem here is just as horrifying and related to the ideology that allowed for the surgery and the “assisted suicide” The fact is postpartum issues are biological–so cradle to grave denying that women exist and biology is not a good social plan. Even if men think so and really really want it. The killer here is the men that denied help to the mother and the child.

      • LC Says:

        If that’s how she described her reaction after her daughter’s birth, it sounds very much like postpartum depression. The fact that she’s also acknowledging abuse suggests that the entire family had serious problems… but of course, “bad mother” makes a better narrative. Sounds like there’s a lot we don’t know about this situation.

      • redbird Says:

        Yes, during psychosis sufferers can have distortions of vision seeing monster faces on people around them and distortions of body shapes. PPP is horribly intractable, even today with all the useless psych drugs pharma has developed. Woman after woman sucides after murdering her babies. This mother sounds to me like she was almost catatonic for years. She gave up. God knows what they were doing to her too.

        Do any of you remember the scene in Antonia’s Line (a Dutch feminist film, a Gorris film). Brothers in a sick sick family regularly raped their sister until Antonia moved back to the community.. The girls mother was helpless to do anything for her daughter, with a brute of a husband and four or five animal sons, and no one in the community stepped up. Until Antonia.

      • redbird Says:

        OT: in case you haven’t seen it: http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/antonias-line-1996

        To hear Antonia’s curse on a rapist is cathartic.

  20. KittyBarber Says:

    Bad mother. Yeah, she did this. “Austin,’ whoever you are, you are really a sick human. You need help. I pity you, I really do, but I would stop advertising your illness online if I were you.

    • jiee Says:

      Transsexualism is a real disorder, which probably has physiological causation. Promoting awareness is good, since it helps those who suffers from it.
      You may want to look into the DSM-V and it’s changes, it was changed to “gender dysphoria” instead of “gender identity disorder” because they do not believe it’s a mental disorder that causes transsexualism, but rather this mental disorder is the side effect of being transsexual.

      As I said earlier, discrimination should never happen because of ignorance. Read up on the facts of transsexualism if you want to hate it, and be educated when you want to discriminate people. I’m not telling you to accept trans people, but do educate yourself about the issue.
      Homosexuality was a mental disorder previously, and it was shunned, the hatred you’re expressing is quite similar to how people viewed homosexuality 50-60 years ago.

      • Motherhood Says:

        The change away from disorder was political. You may want to note that the National Institute of Mental Health and the NIH have dumped the DMS altogether because it is absurd and no longer is accurate. And keep in mind disorders are not paid out the same by insurance. Homosexuals were never running and demanding the medical community do surgery on them. They were coerced so that is a faulty analogy. The Transgender movement is going to take “transsexualism” (if there is such a thing) down with it. The more people know. The more they know. And the high rate of rape and other violent crimes including murder of women will be part of the whole picture. The post SRS suicide rate will also be available and out there. What you call discrimination will simply be protections.

      • truck driver logic Says:

        I don’t think anyone doubts that you have a mental disorder. It is the way industrialized medicine is “curing” you and “helping” you feel better about yourselves that is in question here. With a suicide rate so high, most of us that have “educated ourselves” about it and practiced “awareness” have come to the conclusion that we have unknowingly supported a medical trainwreck. We wish to stop seeing our friends die of the “treatment.”

  21. Ave Says:

    This is some seriously depressing stuff. Keep in mind too it could work in the vice-versa scenario as well

  22. oserchenma Says:

    Tragic, yes. One issue that I think deserves clarification regarding this sad event: I wonder if the operations were “botched”, or if the results were average for people “transitioning”. I see that the victim was unhappy with the results, and experienced perhaps expectable side effects; I’m not at all seeing that the results were anything unusual.

    In other words, unless it is clear that the misery she experienced was due to having some unusual, unpredictable medical result, I would want to keep it clear that the problem was that the expectations she had developed from her reading and doctors were not met. This is very different. It means that the surgery itself, without “Botching”, may not meet expectations and may result in suicidal idealogy.

  23. Em Says:

    “It means that the surgery itself, without “Botching”, may not meet expectations and may result in suicidal idealogy.”

    Could be. My guess is that the suicidal ideation is there long before surgery. That they “have to” undergo such horrible procedures probably just confirms for these women how disgusting and unacceptable they really are, plunging them further into despair.

  24. mieprowan Says:

    The whole point of critiquing blaming the mother/family is that yes, many girls are unwanted, treated poorly, abused, raped and even trafficked. It’s tragic and inexcusable, it’s also culturally embedded, and we need to keep fighting it.

    But many women survive such abuse. This woman might have done so, had she the human resources to do so. Instead she was effectively sacrificed on the altar of medical technology. “Let’s see if we can make a penis!” Well, no, you can’t, in fact F2T SRS is even harder than M2T, because it’s easier to make a shorter urethra than a shorter one, not to mention issues regarding erectile tissue.

    When people here keep wanting to hammer on the family, they ignore how this woman’s options were cut short by this procedure. She never had a chance to survive whatever familial abuse was incurred, she was sacrificed as surely as a trafficked girl who is fucked until she bleeds to death.

    • mieprowan Says:

      ack, easier to make a shorter one than a longer one.

    • mieprowan Says:

      In case my analogy wasn’t clear, I am saying “Let’s see if we can make a penis” and “Let’s see if we can make a vagina” are coming out of the exact same place as “Let’s see how long we can fuck this child until (either sex) bleeds to death.” It is pure objectification, and displays an addiction to brutally pushing boundaries in order to feed one’s ego.

    • Versa Says:

      Really, I think it’s a wonder that any SRS faux “penises” ever get accepted by the body.

      • mieprowan Says:

        My mother worked in the medical ethics dept of UCLA for about ten years, and taught there. She told me once that she considered herself a success when her class full of doclings, who invariably came in thinking they knew everything there was to know about difficult ethical issues, left thinking maybe they weren’t so sure.

        That’s arrogance. The medical community is full of arrogant male docs, and what a feather in one’s cap to perform some especially tricky surgery successfully. And this sort of thing takes practice, so test subjects are required.

    • redbird Says:

      She had two wrongs in such a family: female, and lesbian. If she’d been heterosexual and maybe this happened anyway, she would have been raped into a pulp by such a family, that the mother would express those thoughts. Pure projection on the mother’s part, I’d say.

  25. GallusMag Says:

    I’m going to say this as gently as I can because like all of us who care about women and our fellow human beings (unlike Austin Peck who feels Nancy’s death by assisted suicide is a therapeutic outcome) this story is extremely upsetting to me personally. Which is why I have not commented on it.

    But now I am going to say as gently as I can that those of us who are “blaming the mother” are doing so out of our own internalized female-hatred. I say this because we simply do not have enough information at this point on the circumstances surrounding her death, or even on the true perspective of Nancy’s mother on these events.

    For example.

    We have a brief statement from Nancy talking about how she was raised as a second class citizen by her mother due to her sex. This is true of almost all our mothers, whether they intended to do this to us or not.

    We have this awful statement from Nancy’s mother:

    ““When I saw ‘Nancy’ for the first time, my dream was shattered. She was so ugly. I had a phantom birth. Her death does not bother me,” she told Het Laatste Nieuws newspaper.
    “I will definitely read [the goodbye letter] it but it will be full of lies. For me, this chapter is closed. Her death does not bother me. I feel no sorrow, no doubt or remorse. We never had a bond.”

    And it IS truly awful. But what does it mean? It means Nancy’s mom, like Austin Peck, feels that Nancy’s death was a therapeutic outcome. One has to note that this view was adopted by a WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE besides Austin Peck and Nancy’s mother. A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE including the many many medical and psychiatric professionals who played a role in carrying it out. And what of Nancy’s friends and lovers? What of her transgender community? Where were they? Do they also have no doubt or remorse for what they view as the best possible outcome for Nancy? I have not seen a single one yet speaking out.

    What I have seen is some women on reddit who claim they were at the same clinic as Nancy and met her while undergoing the same surgical procedures. They reported that Nancy’s surgical complications (necrosis of the tissue of the fake penis) are quite common and expected. This is supported by the medical literature. They also claim that Nancy was sexually abused by a male family member. I’m not going to link to the reddit thread because at this point it’s all unsubstantiated. But I think it is safe to say that we have not begun to get a glimpse of the full picture of Nancy’s specific childhood and family dynamics.

    I’m also confused by what this means: ““When I saw ‘Nancy’ for the first time, my dream was shattered. She was so ugly. I had a phantom birth. Her death does not bother me”
    Does this mean the mother was horrified the first time she saw her daughter with dying rotting flesh attached to her genitals? Or was she talking about seeing Nancy as a baby? Was she saying that her dream that Nancy would find peace via medical transition was shattered? Had she tried to talk Nancy out of transitioning? Or had she supported it? When she said “we never had a bond” did she mean that she hated her daughter and never nurtured her? Or did she mean it like “We never spoke, we have been estranged for thirty years”? Or both?

    I’m not confident in the reporting, the translation, the parsing of quotes enough to sum Nancy’s fate up with the “evil mother” archetype. Obviously they had a terrible relationship. Obviously mom, like Austin Peck and the doctors and psychiatrists who killed her feel that this was an outcome not worthy of remorse, but a therapeutic one. I disagree with that assessment and think the sanctioned medical killing of Nancy was horrific.

    Nancy’s mother may indeed be “a monster” but I would like more information before “blaming the mother”, especially when there is SO MUCH here that we DON’T need more information yet to surmise:

    Humans born female are raised as subhuman

    Humans born female are raped by their fathers

    Humans born female can not opt out of these conditions by disguising their sex via medicine and sugery

    Etc.

      • redbird Says:

        Thank you. Maybe now some of these women haters god I am so upset to see this here maybe now they will think.

      • redbird Says:

        If she was sexually abused and/or raped by one of them, she was by all of them, father and brothers. Four males in the family. It would be a ravening. This poor woman. She was doomed from the beginning with those men in her family, the men whose idea and glory is transitioning, whether it’s MtT or FtT, is a male idea, the men who did the surgery, and the man who killed her.

        Like an animal to slaughter.

      • mieprowan Says:

        Are there any extant cultures where body dysmorphic disorder is not actively encouraged, I wonder?

    • Old Music Says:

      Thank you for this, it deserves to be a post in its own right.

    • artemisontheland Says:

      Luckily, we can use the resources we have to love and support each other and work toward increased visibility, like you do here, GM, and at The Wanted Project, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybOwOnVkmG0

      The Butch Visibility Project http://genderfatigue.com/2013/09/28/butch-visibility-project/

      and others, as examples.

      Jeanette Winterson wrote of her own experience of being rejected due to her sex in her memoir Why Be Happy When You Can Be Normal. http://www.jeanettewinterson.com/pages/content/index.asp?PageID=611

      Reading between the lines, we know unspeakable assaults happen upon our infant female bodies by care givers who hate women. This takes a life time to heal, IF we make it. We are all valuable, but there is a war on, and we are going to lose some. I don’t say this to be callous, but from lived experience. I don’t like to use anecdotal stories, generally, because it can distract from the issues of class, but I, myself, loved a woman who ended her life because of toxic self hatred and despair. Active suicide or passive (thru drug and alcohol abuse or other self harming behaviour)- the results are the same.

      As loathsome as social media is most of the time, we must find a way to continue to make positive messaging and resources available, reiterate our values AGAIN, even while we are being closed out of lesbian spaces that are controlled by those that do not have our best interest at heart, in the hopes of being found by those that need a safe space to heal and be understood.

      Nancy Nathan Verhelst, rest in peace. You were our sister.

  26. Tobysgirl Says:

    mieprowan: The medical community is full of arrogant male docs, and what a feather in one’s cap to perform some especially tricky surgery successfully. And this sort of thing takes practice, so test subjects are required.

    And not just male docs! My sister is an MD and you’d have to search hard to find a more arrogant human being. Glad to see you point out the macho attitudes among surgeons, miep. Who wants to spend their life fixing hernias, broken legs and infected appendices? So much more glamorous to operate on a deformed premature baby (I’m thinking of a friend’s granddaughter, born with innumerable defects including two vaginas; they kept operating on her and operating on her until she finally died) or turn a female into a male.

    • mieprowan Says:

      It’s probably worth considering which docs are attracted to which practices. Plastic surgeons are likely to be a different sort from GP’s working cheap in profoundly poverty-stricken areas. And plastic surgeons doing elective surgeries are likely a different sort from those fixing uninsured children’s cleft palates. etc. All medicine is not glamorous, nor is all profitable.

    • mieprowan Says:

      Also, Tobysgirl, that is horrible about your friend’s granddaughter. What an awful experience. I cannot imagine.

  27. mel Says:

    I thought the story was probably a hoax because Het Laatste Nieuws (where the story “exclusively broke”) is a sensationalist tabloid and the initial report lacked details. But, in an article that appeared a day after the first one, the mother is identified (“Jenny”) as well as the town where the mother lives (St-Niklaas).

    http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=DMF20131003_00772590

    The second article reports that Nancy (aka Nathan) wrote in her suicide note that she was leaving money for her mother. Nancy wrote (I’m translating): “I’m leaving you something you may never have expected – money to pay off your debts so you can have some enjoyment in your life. Take it . . . I’m thinking about how it could have been if you’d given me some love. I hope you have a long life.”

    The mother is quoted: “I never expected that our Nancy would leave me money. That really grabs me. But to be honest, I’m still unmoved by her death. I only feel a kind of peace. I’ve come full circle: my daughter is dead.”

    • GallusMag Says:

      Jesus. Thank you for this report. Please post more information if you see it. Thank you!

    • ibleedpurple Says:

      The mother’s quote is interesting. It seems to indicate that she blamed her daughter for all the grief she had to endure as a result of Nancy being abused and then abusing herself.

      I surely feel a lot less anger at her now after reading all this new info. But she’s still making excuses: about 90% of what she says is designed to avoid responsibility and to victim-blame. She is simply not mentally ill enough to deserve my pity. I think that scapegoating is highly likely which exacerbates the need to bond with the other perpetrators but that’s no excuse either.

      Finally, I don’t want to needlessly lengthen the discussion so I’ll just bow out now.

  28. red Says:

    I see her saying her daughter is dead. She does not acknowlege a son. And again, we have to guess what she meant. Words carry meaning and you can’t know the exact meaning in another language. For example, what is it she feels a “kind of peace” from?

    There is something we are not getting that is fundamental to this tragedy. Some pivotal part of the story.

    In the end, the idea of being able to change your sex is what killed this woman. All the trans pushers should bow there heads in shame.

    How many of us, feminists and lesbians can say, our mothers (or fathers) never wanted us, never loved us, were cold and unhelpful or abusive, physically and mentally, to us? Virtually all that I know well, in that online way of knowing. Virtually all.

    • mieprowan Says:

      I have had tons of issues with my mother at times in the past. Various betrayals. Yet I know she was played by men, and trying to get out of one bad situation or another. She was shaped by this culture as much as I am, and to hate her would be to hate myself.

  29. Lint Says:

    It chills me to think of the numerous doctors, bureaucrats, therapists, and assorted support staff that allowed, encouraged, and made this happen. Nancy needed compassion. Instead she was told to go ahead and kill herself. The cruelty and indifference is remarkable.

    It never fails to amaze me that the trans community is totally blase about the treatment they receive from the medical establishment, yet ready to go wild when denied access to a bathroom.

    • mieprowan Says:

      “It never fails to amaze me that the trans community is totally blase about the treatment they receive from the medical establishment, yet ready to go wild when denied access to a bathroom.” Men control medicine, women occupy women’s bathrooms. So the pathology is that men are good givers and women are bad withholders.

    • redbird Says:

      Must not interfere with their orgasm. They see the medical profession as enabling it, and us as denying it.

  30. Bev Jo Says:

    I have known and know of a lot of men claiming to be women, and have not known of one suicide. I can think of eight Lesbian friends and acquaintances off the top of my head who have committed suicide and many other who tried. Two shot themselves in the head (one planned it in a grocery store with a note saying she was homeless and couldn’t take it anymore — not true, but a political statement), at least four took drugs, one jumped off the Golden Gate bridge. Most were Radical Lesbian Feminists. It was all about being oppressed as Lesbians and women and chronic illness.

    And yes, Versa, I agree that more girls and women will feel such suicidal hopelessness if they can’t even go into a public restroom without fear of sexual assault and harassment by men claiming to be women. (I’ll never forget the effect when I was little of finding pornographic drawings of disgusting het sex that some man had left in the women’s restroom at a park. A warning there was no escape from male predation.)

    This story is so horrific on so many levels. Self-hating women must realize that they can’t be men. They aren’t men, they never will be men. Mutilating themselves won’t change it. Learning about Radical Feminism would help, but not the liberal version that is incredibly Lesbian-hating and Butch-hating.

    And of course men can never be women. Not even close….

  31. ibleedpurple Says:

    From http://www.bioedge.org/index.php/bioethics/bioethics_article/10707:

    “Nathan’s example has already prompted one of his best friends, Dora, the second person in Belgium to have a male-female sex reassignment operation, to ask for euthanasia. The 53-year-old, who held Nathan in her arms as he died, said that she was tired of being rejected.”

    From what I can understand from the original link (some words are very similar to their German counterparts & Google translate) Dora underwent GDR with 32 and was there with Nancy when she was dying. He was likewise rejected by his parents and subject to constant taunts. His reason for euthanasia seems to be that he fought his entire life to be acknowledged/recognized but to no avail. Dora says that Nancy was his only friend so I guess he doesn’t have anything to live for now.


  32. […] want to watch it. It is ok if you don’t. (I need to credit user ibleedpurple who posted the link on gendertrender – which I do have to admit has been doing an excellent job of picking up on some important […]


  33. […] of the individuals like Nathan Verhelst for whom such treatments abysmally fail to diagnose or cure? What treatments are available for […]


  34. […] what precipitates this outpouring today is the really tragic story about Nancy/Nathan Verhelst that GallusMag posted a few days ago. Basically, Verhelst suffered some extreme mental abuse from […]


  35. […] want to watch it. It is ok if you don’t. (I need to credit user ibleedpurple who posted the link on gendertrender, which I have to admit has been doing an excellent job picking up some important stories that […]


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