Gender Identity- Shae Sau

February 15, 2014

70 Responses to “Gender Identity- Shae Sau”

  1. Teal Deer Says:

    The lack of self-awareness in the trans movement is just staggering. Binding breasts and putting a wad of socks into a pair of y-fronts is in no way embracing who you are. SMH

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      Oh c’mon Teal Deer, haven’t you heard the news? Embracing who you AREN’T is now the same as embracing who ARE! Penises can be female, and AREN’T can be ARE!

      *sarcasm* — I feel very disturbed by this propaganda ad, I mean, it reminds me of the old, old girl scouts ad from long ago, when a girl put on her girl scout uniform, sash, and pins in front of a mirror – identity, belonging – and now it’s sock-in-underwear – I feel like “giving up on feminism,” giving up on politics – I guess that is kind of the point…

  2. Jane Says:

    I stopped watching it here:

    “I can’t cry because I’m a man”

    Now that’s what I call genderfucking!

    Why is it so difficult for them to understand? Claiming that anyone who deviates from enforced sex roles is transgender is not “smashing the gender binary” but reinforcing it.

    • Adrian Says:

      So much this. The trans ideology reifies the gender binary like nothing else!!!

      For what it’s worth I wear men’s “tighty whities” underwear. I just find them comfortable (NO socks in there, mind you) and cheap. Worn them forever.

      But I’m a woman, thankyou very much!!! Got a regular sports bra up top. Somehow I doubt any underwear companies are going to put me in a ad though…!

    • Akira Says:

      As a man, I didn’t know that I wasn’t supposed to cry. This video really opened my eyes! /sarcasm

      Extreme stereotyping aside, is it wrong that I laughed a bit when she expressed her desire to be a father? Don’t you need testicles and certain tubing for that? For real ones, not those funky implants?

  3. AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

    Pure unadulterated sexism, self-hatred, poor reasoning skills, young person’s desire to rebel against elders, “be different” or “cool,” get extra attention, and as an added bonus – sell more underwear! At least I can feel reassured, being older and my generation not having anything in particular to be proud of, in terms of where this country is going – that this younger generation will ALSO not have anything in particular to be proud of, in terms of where this country is going, the planet, etc.

    • vande Says:

      @AreUSayingWhatUThink, do you really think this person is a rebel? With all due respect, I am quite confident that the opposite is going on here. This person is trapped in the gender conformity of their elders and does not know how to break out of that. They can’t rebel, so they end up in this tortured world of trying to be themselves by using the wrong model. This is a person displaying the ultra-conservative attitudes we see in many youth. Not a free person. Not a rebel. Just the tortured shell of someone who can’t break free.

      I liked the rest of your post though. Especially the observation that the person in the video was wearing two pairs of underwear. Double sale!

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        No, I don’t think they’re being a rebel. In their OWN mind, they’re being a rebel. But not really. I don’t think it’s necessarily 100% gender conformity with their elders’ belief system – it’s also gender conformity with their peers – very important at that age. I think trans is trendy now with young people, kind of like body piercing a while ago – now body piercing is all over the place, kinda ordinary. So now have to move onto some other body mod – how ’bout trans?

  4. vande Says:

    Is this person embracing who they are? I don’t think so. This person looks sad. There is no sadness in being yourself. Life is hard, but surely denial and pretense will not make it easier.


  5. Such a sad reversal. The message is really “do not embrace who you are.” This is so evident in her words and in the images (including the black/white floor tiles) that it’s tempting to think for a moment this film really is about embacing who you are, and overcoming fake ‘gender identity’ programming — but no, it’s pro-gender. What if her discourse had been about body & self-image/food instead of body & self-image/gender?

    • Random Radfem Says:

      There was a huge backlash against thinspiration, pro-anorexia, sites several years back and they are small scale operations, individuals posting images collected off the web. This transpirational stuff is showcasing BID, as extreme as any eating disorder, but instead of PSA-type warning about the dangers, it is being promoted as a lifestyle choice by formerly gay orgs with lots of money. I could see Glaad producing a few of these to air on Logo.

      • moira Says:

        Brilliant point and well put. It’s a lot more analogous than most people want to think. Also, there’s a ton of overlap. A lot of girls/young women starving their breasts off because they “ruining my masculine body” etc.

      • Adrian Says:

        I think it’s interesting too that particularly in the F2T scene, the image that so many of them idolize and strive for is a sort of “anime-esque” “pretty boy” image, which really is only achievable (even for actual boys) in a narrow age range, teens to MAYBE early twenties.

        Lots of those F2T start with the binding and whatever, maybe some hormones, maybe not, but they don’t really “pass” at their real ages – they get pegged as being prepubescent or maybe just entering puberty, because they still look small and baby-faced, no real facial hair, no wide shoulders/square faces.

        This is acceptable, again, within a certain age range. But already you can find people upset that they get called out as female in gay bars and such. Sure they do, because the fact that it’s a bar means it’s 21 years and up (at least in the US) and someone looking 14 but verified 21, in the current climate where it seems in some circles every third person is trans, is going to ping the trans-dar pretty damn quick.

        Fast forward to middle age. Either your body took to T “well” and it had effects and you look like the usual stocky balding uncle (which a lot of younger F2T decry as “gross”) or else it didn’t take “well” and so you still look somewhat femmy, but at that age, it doesn’t mean you “pass but look younger” anymore. It means you don’t pass well.

        Definitely there’s a segment that seems to do it for a certain “look” (whatever other issues they might have) and I wonder if some sort of honest portrayal about what things are going to be like 25 years down the road would make people think twice. Particularly given that the age many people are starting (at least on the internet) is at a time when people kinda think they’ll live forever in the physical state they’re in, or they can always just turn around later, or whatever…

        Heck you can even find explicit queries asking how long they should stay “on T” to get the androgynous pretty boy look but without any danger of losing hair, etc.

      • Mormo Says:

        @ Adrian
        “I think it’s interesting too that particularly in the F2T scene, the image that so many of them idolize and strive for is a sort of “anime-esque” “pretty boy” image, which really is only achievable (even for actual boys) in a narrow age range, teens to MAYBE early twenties.”

        My friends and I have noticed this too as we’ve grown up this age group. We also theorize that the whole idea of an online persona and escapism of the internet may have something to do with this shit. “Now I can be my effeminate gay anime boy avatar” it’s really not as far-fetched as it sounds.

      • moira Says:

        Adrian, you’re right about the shortsightedness. At least among my cohort, a lot of us didn’t expect to live very long, so I know that’s part of it. Trauma (a pretty frequent root cause of ftm transition) forecloses your sense of having a future, so I’d say that’s often a factor, in addition to the usual deal of being young and having no real concept of consequences yet.

      • cerulean blue Says:

        Mormo, I’m involved in a Japan-related hobby that has a lot of young ftms in it. What you wrote is right on the mark, from my perspective, anyway. The avatar of every ftm I’ve encountered in this hobby is invariably the yaoi-style male (bishonen — beautiful boys) seen in a certain type of manga. For those who don’t know what yaoi is, it’s young man on young man manga written for women, by women. It has nothing to do with what gay men are actually attracted to. So the men are thin and boyish, as hyperfeminine and doe eyed as the women in other forms of manga. The stories read like harlequin romances (but smuttier and illustrated, of course) and have the invariable rape scenes, unequal power relationships, etc. Unbelievably misogynistic and unrealistic.


      • @cerulean blue

        Absolutely true. When I was in my teens I loved yaoi mangas and I always wished to be a boy. Things got worse later.😦 I still have those mangas but I don’t read them anymore. Because they are misogynistic, violent crap. Where rape is “cute” and a sign or love. *vomits* It’s really disgusting.

      • jo Says:

        ”Unbelievably misogynistic and unrealistic.”
        Thanks for saying that, Cerulean blue. I used to read a lot of those comics as a teenager but never liked them because of what you describe. One reason I’ve heard from fangirls is that they like it because they are attracted to men but want to escape the unfair dynamic between men and women in a patriarchal society. (said with less feminist words, of course) It doesn’t make any sense however when most yaoi is inspired by hentai (straight porn comics for men, in their turn inspired by the general misogynist rape/child abuse culture) where the standard plot is a young, helpless female/feminine victim attacked by some psycho male rapists and liking it.
        We also have ”otome games” which are usually similar, straight ”romance” for girls. There really isn’t much if anything out there for a girl who want sex/romance fiction but do not want to see people like her as victims.
        Young people grow up with the same type of misogynist propaganda about what sex is from all sorts of material – the mainstream media, the porn, the comics, the slashfics, the ”romance novels” all show similar sad values.
        It makes me very sad that these people, who consume and create more of the same, do not seem to think that there is an escape from patriarchal attitudes and that sex and relationships must be in a certain way. That they can’t even imagine something different in a fantasy.

        I wish people would question the shit out of this in anime/manga fangirl communities and well everwhere, I don’t know if they do it was long ago since I was a member of such a place.
        I remember the last time many years ago when I visited a yaoi forum and the girls were all ”seme uke blah blah lol rape is funny/hot” and displayed a complete ignorance of their own female bodies and sexuality. A few FTM’s around and a lot of anti-feminism. Sad sad sad. It’s supposed to be an escape from being the objectified woman and instead becoming a voyeur but it’s still not an escape…it was very good for my mental health to stop reading such things and to start learning about my body and my rights instead.

        Sorry long post but I’m excited to see someone who knows what yaoi is and speak negatively about it from a feminist point of view, instead of homophobic.

      • cerulean blue Says:

        @Jo,
        Sadly, I don’t think the anime/manga community has changed since you were involved. I am older than the typical reader, and only tangentially involved with the community, but I’ve read an extensive range of manga and almost all that I have seen are uniformly misogynistic. I was horrified to find out that one of the more popular manga for teenage girls glorified the physical abuse of the female lead. That was the definition of love. Sick. Within the community there is absolutely no critical discussion of this definition or these characterizations. And, as you point out, the manga for girls seeking to escape the constricts of male-female relationships find the same in the yaoi variety.

        I showed a yaoi manga to a gay friend of mine and he laughed at the characterizations. They were so far off from his ideal of an attractive man and those of his acquaintance (Mr. Abercrombie and Fitch, for instance). Yaoi characters look like flat-chested girls, complete with long hair, long eyelashes, long wilowy figures, even long fingernails and high heels, etc. The characters remind me so much of the male teen idols targeted at girls. Completely non-threatening. Except in addition to misrepresenting the reality of the way a adults actually look, these promulgate offensive stereotypes about the way relationships work.

        The sad thing is that so many of the kids involved in anime and manga are the kids who don’t fit into the typical teenager roles, the kids who are intelligent and autonomous enough to see that something is wrong with the way society works, the way we are all forced into boxes of gender, the way girls are seen as defective if they don’t like pink sparkly princess crap from birth. That they are finding, and accepting, the same boxes, just dressed up in different clothing or language is distressing.

        I was a teenager a long, long time ago and it makes me ill to realize that girls are still buying into and romanticizing abusive relationships. A good friend of mine in high school had a massive collection of Silhouette Romances (these were a smuttier version of Harlequins) and I remember after reading one she loaned me being incredulous that (a) her mother let her read that crap, and (b) that she actually enjoyed it. Yet this is still going on. And honestly, the abuse I’ve seen in these manga far exceeds the abuse in these early 1980s romance novels.

        I can’t speak to the yuri genre of manga, as I haven’t been able to find any locally. It would be interesting to see how they handle female-female relationships. But importantly, those are not the manga teenage girls (lesbian, “ftm” or straight) are interested in.

  6. BigBooButch Says:

    “Embrace who you are” doesn’t mean change yourself to appear how you think you should appear. It means to accept your body as it is and love yourself.

  7. 1899fcbarcelona Says:

    I wasn’t aware that men had baby bearing hips, boobs, and uteri. Better yet…how can a biological female (mind you women/girls don’t have penises) “father” children when women don’t produce sperm?
    Just because you as a woman/girl decide to wear boxer briefs or anything else from the “men” section or do anything else that says “hey you’re a female you can’t do that” does NOT make you a man.
    I read a few of the comments and I found it be hilarious; what fucking light weights…it takes more courage to live in a female hating world/society than to pretend to be something you’ll never biologically be.

    • 1899fcbarcelona Says:

      Gallus, you got my gears grinding again! LOL🙂

    • vande Says:

      “I read a few of the comments and I found it be hilarious; what fucking light weights…it takes more courage to live in a female hating world/society than to pretend to be something you’ll never biologically be.”

      It does take more courage. You got that one right on. However, you got me to go and read the comments and I think there is something else also going on with those. Could it not be that these people are identifying with the emotional impact of seeing someone with a dysphoria, perhaps one which they can relate to, and thinking that it is a great thing that this person is “going their own way”? That, without giving any thought to the fact that it is social wrongs which are the cause of the problem, and not anything wrong with the “sufferer”. I would take the last point for granted on this blog, but most people are not so advanced. All they can do is empathize in some way, and they have no ability to really analyze what is going on.

      • Motherhood Says:

        Vande–empathize? why? because women are nice and caring or we owe men the milk of human kindness? Even ones with personality disorders. Let him suck attention from people who give a rat’s ass about him—that would not be me. I have real women and children that are not jetting all over the world and playing twitter for sympathy—poor poor him international travel is just so hard these days. I would rather analyze. That way some asshole that gets all hard when he puts on the lipstick and ejaculates when he threatens women is not my lord and master. You go right ahead and empathize until the cows come home. I don’t care what the little narcissistic prick suffers. He had no business in a jail with women he is a danger to women. He can go his own way, away from women who do not want to be near him–little fucking wanker. And my analyis is that courage is a male line of bullshit. It takes a lot of courage to expose yourself in front of women, to rape, to torture a child for weeks, to depacapitate your wife. Yep the new heros. Courage by the way is something men admire–women are just trying to stay alive. Yep all men of steel these guys.

      • Motherhood Says:

        Opps last comment of mine I thought I was on that thread about that creepy guy flying to Canada.

    • Adrian Says:

      As a woman who has worn men’s briefs for pretty much ever, I just want to say thank you.

  8. Random Radfem Says:

    It is so twisted and toxic that someone, or a group of people, put time and money into creating this piece of propaganda- promoting self-hatred and self-loathing of the female body, as a positive. That resigned smile when she thinks she has erased any outward appearance of her female-ness. Embrace your sad, heart-breaking self-hate, be trans, be one of us, gobble, gobble!

  9. SheilaG Says:

    Men can’t cry? Where oh where are these idiots getting this information. Oh, slaps head, I know, we are in a huge genderstraight jacket back lash now, and everything feminism accomplished — like saying all humans feel pain, all humans cry… well that got swept under the rug. This video is so offensive in so many ways, I feel sorry for this young clueless woman who hates her own body. In another time, she would have been a dyke plain and simple, but now…. she thinks men can’t cry, or boys don’t cry….

    • lin Says:

      When I had eyelid surgery I learned that men’s tear glands actually dry up, and that makes it harder for them to cry. After that i didn’t feel as embarrassed about being a weepy female. It’s just biology.

      • vande Says:

        That’s an interesting fact. But why would you feel embarrassed about being a “weepy female”. I’m certainly not embarrassed about being a “weepy male” – and I’m not even the least bit “effeminate”, not that I care about that one way or the other. I do realize though that I’ve grown up with some privileges that make it easier for me to adopt that stance.


  10. This is the opposite of embracing oneself. It’s manipulating one’s body to fit into socially defined boxes.

    • GallusMag Says:

      This reminds me of an ironic passage in the sfgate article on “nonbinary gender roles” we were discussing the other day in the Valencia Jones thread. I didn’t post it then because I was strapped for time and forgot but you just reminded me so here it is:

      “Smith’s eureka moment struck in college when ou got in with a crowd of transgender people. “It’s OK not to be a girl or a boy, there’s a word for that. You’re genderqueer,” said a friend.

      “It was like someone had opened a door in a previously unbroken wall,” Smith said. “It had never occurred to me that gender might be a spectrum or that something beyond the binary might exist. It was a huge formative moment in my life – finally I had the tools to assert my own identity, rather than having to sandwich myself into definitions crafted by others.”

      Dur Dur Dur. lmao.
      bolding by me.

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      You mean…socially defined boxers….🙂

      • Adrian Says:

        Emperor has no clothes? No problem! Just conjure up some of those socially defined boxers…🙂

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      To Adrian: LOL. 🙂

  11. Dar Guerra Says:

    How sad.

  12. GallusMag Says:

    I’m also going to drop a comment over here that was left by IceMountainFire on the “Fuck You, Kill You, or Be You” thread the other day, because it was very interesting and I don’t want anyone to miss it:

    “icemountainfire Says:

    February 11, 2014 at 7:30 am e
    This trope of “you don’t deserve this body because you don’t appreciate it” we see so often is maybe one of the reasons why the trans cult gets relatively far when interacting with the mainstream culture. It ties so nicely into the obsession with bodies as “achievements”.

    At this place and age bodies aren’t just bodies. They are the outcome of choices and action. It seems largely unquestioned that a) a person is not really her/his body but a person filled inside a bodily vessel and b) every person has the moral (!) obligation to make the best of the vessel. People are morally (!) obliged to be as “healthy” as possible to deserve anything up to life, dignity, health care and normal human relationships.

    Women (men to a lesser degree) are supposed to “work hard” for “their” bodies: may it be by losing weight, training to be “fit” (remember the mother of three boys and her “What’s your excuse?” picture?), feeding herself and everyone in her reach only morally good food, battling illness with mental powers (a school of thought that gave us the “cancer personality”), thus heaping blame on the chronically sick/dying who just “did not work hard enough”, using a baffling amount of products to just maintain a basic status quo of acceptable looks, hiding “shameful” diseases like diabetes which are treated like a moral failure (“If she hadn’t eaten too much bad food…”) etc.

    This may originate in certain christian ideas. I definitely see a line of tradition from the ascetic who seperates her/his body from herself in order to torture the pesky flesh that is such an obstacle for true spirituality, over the ubiquitous stories around the theme of “ugly outside, lovely person with a big heart inside” towards a “you have the looks that you are deserve” of today’s mainstream culture which treats the body like a business card. A medieval saint showed off the scars of self-harm and the emaciated looks of self-starvation as proof they are good people worthy of a place in heaven. We today are supposed to show off our “healthy”, gender-role pre-formatted, optimized perfect bodies as proof we are good people worthy of basic human dignity.

    And in such a world a trans cultists fit in nicely. They have made choices, they set actions, they have “worked on their bodies” and constantly have to keep working on it to maintain the status quo. It is mainstream body hate taken to the extreme, combined with the pseudo-religious belief that if you just work hard enough you can achieve literally everything, and may it be changing your sex.
    (I will not say taken to the extreme end, who knows what we will see in twenty years or so.)”


    • found something else about bodies…

      • Guls Says:

        My girlfriend is gonna get a facelift sometime soon. I don’t like the idea – I love her face, it’s the face of the woman I fell in love with – so which is more supportive; respecting her personal choice or being the big bad guy trying to talk her out of doing what she’s long wanted to? I

      • Random Radfem Says:

        This is awesome- thanks for posting! Her name is Sonya Renee Taylor and heads an org focused on radical self-love. I poked around the website and there is a lot of good stuff there. Trans is an ideology of self-hatred and extreme adherence to social stereotypes. It does not defy or challenge the status quo. Accepting our bodies as they are, as our own, not in relation to the male ideal that oppresses us, that is anarchism in action. That takes the kind of courage and boldness necessary to change the world. Thanks again for this!

      • jo Says:

        Great video, thanks for posting it.

    • annabel Says:

      This is really interesting and it would be possible , and even necessary, to extend this analysis to the current dominance of neo-liberal economic policies and the notion that we are ‘self-made’ units of productivity who are solely responsible for own our success or lack of it. The obsessive focus on self-actualisation has no solidarity with the real victims of neo-liberal economic policy; the poor, the sick, the disabled. The trans cultists are a manifestation of the link between neoliberalism and narcissism.


  13. The mutilation of healthy female anatomy in all its myriad of forms has a thousand plus year history. From Chinese foot binding to female genital mutilation, it never completely goes out of style. It just morphs into something new. Victorian women had deformed ribs and other health problems from corsets that constricted the lower ribcage and internal organs.

    As to breast binding, binding for long periods of time, especially with things like Ace Bandages, duct tape, or whatever can mis-align ribs and cause other health problems. Even the breast binders bought online can cause health problems. Costochondritis (rib imflammation) sounds painful. Below is an article about the dangers of breast binding.

    “Most people seem to know that binding with tapes and bandages can be dangerous, but few people realize that the same risks apply to chest binders.

    And the damages do occur: bruised ribs, deformed ribs, broken ribs, lung collapse,….

    Here’s the story from a guy who’d been wearing ONLY Underworks binders for 6 years:

    ♦ He developed costochondritis (rib inflammation)
    ♦ His ribs are deformed and compressed into his lungs
    ♦ Some of his muscles have shifted position….
    Chest and Ribs Anatomy

    (*I know this says “he”, but this is a female body being constricted)

    If you take a look at the illustrations, you will see that the binder sits right on top of the ribs.

    The compression here can damage small blood vessels, compress the breast tissue, slow down blood flow to the lymph nodes, and create clots (that could get to the heart and provoke a mild heart attack).”

    I know people aren’t going to believe this, but I ran across one of the numerous FTM youtube videos of a young women who identifies as trans. This young woman looked like she was about 14 or 15 years old. She has asthma, and she made a youtube video about binding with asthma. Watch this video because it’s scary. Someone with asthma already has compromised lungs.

    “I have asthma and I can’t use “proper binders”. I wear sports bras…three of them…”

    There is no such thing as a “proper binder” because binders can misalign ribs and cause other health problems.

    What the holy ^%&*## are we doing to these young women? This is insanity.

    I hope this young woman doesn’t end up in the hospital.

    There are transgender websites that give away free used binders to females under the age of 21.

    “Why does “In a Bind” focus on youth? Youth represent the most overlooked members of the trans community. They often don’t have a voice or money of their own. If they don’t have a supportive family and at least moderate financial means, it can be almost impossible for them to obtain a new binder on their own. “In a Bind” strives to create a feeling of “taking care of our own” within the trans adult community by giving them the opportunity to help these young people. ”

    “All of our binders are sent to youth ages 21 and younger.”

    http: //wwwDOTinabindDOTtransactiveonlineDOTorg/get.php


  14. Body Dysmorphic Disorder, or just feeling extremely uncomfortable with your body, doesn’t mean you are trans. It just means that you have some serious issues with your body, or certain parts of your anatomy. Most young women have some degree of discomfort with their bodies. After all, the majority of anorexics are female. Most cutters (people who self-mutilate) are female, and all most all of these women have a history of sexual abuse or childhood trauma. Instead of addressing all these issues, breast binding just reinforces the discomfort and alienation that women feel. In a rape culture that devalues girls from the time they are born, it would be rare to find a female who doesn’t feel some level of discomfort with her body.

  15. lin Says:

    If she had stuffed her bra instead, she’d be a joke. Why is it any more noble for her to stuff her pants? Somehow the former is being a phony but the latter is being true to herself?

  16. anoner55 Says:

    Not sure if you’ve seen this, but this is exactly why men should not be allowed in women’s shelters!

    http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/15/a-sex-predators-sick-deception

  17. Annoyed Bi Chick Says:

    This is a movement which genuinely thinks that consensus reality is whatever they say it is, or that they personally should be able to assert their individual will on everyone else and maybe the non-human world as well. A friend of mine posted this quote elsewhere, which shows how deep the denialism goes:

    Biological sex is a construct imposed upon human bodies in an effort to understand their reproductive capabilities. Since the interpretations necessary to this construct were made BY HUMAN BEINGS, they are flawed.” — Vivian Doug

    Right, because there’s no such thing as observable, replicable reality; it’s all just a solipsistically pomo “matter of perspective.” I want these people to stop using anything that comes from science, because they obviously don’t deserve it.

    • Jane Says:

      I didn’t attend grad school, so I never read any of those French pomo guys or Judith Butler. It looks like they’ve ruined the left, possibly for good. How can you even have a conversation with people who think this way, much less work together in a movement?

      How do we know their human feelings-based gender theory isn’t flawed? And how would you accommodate everyone’s feelings-based theories in a mass society? I guess we’re finding out now. Transgenderism and Prostitution are on the front burner for libfems and inextricably linked. Advocates for both talk a lot about harm reduction, but only from the viewpoint of the oppressed individual, rather than the group. What if their harm reduction significantly increases harm to other groups?

      An example of harm reduction-based morality run amok is Melissa Gira Grant’s book Playing the Whore. I strongly suggest that you all read this review:

      http://sarahditum.com/2014/02/16/toying-with-politics/

      I’m blown away by this quote from the book:

      so long as there are women who are called whores, there will be women who believe it is next to death to be one or to be mistaken for one. And so long as that is, men will feel they can leave whores for dead with impunity.

      So women share responsibility for male violence against prostitutes, simply on account of not wanting to be perceived as such. It’s delusional to think that our attitudes have much of an effect on how men treat any women. Pro-prostitution activism seems like one long whine against women with non-prostitute privilege. Isn’t it funny how both trans and prostitution activists spend the majority of their time hectoring women rather than confronting male violence?

      From the review:

      Gira Grant seems to see nowhere for women to fit beyond the sexual market. She writes: “[t]o truly confront [violence against sex workers] would require us to admit that we permit violence against some women to be committed in order to protect the social and sexual value of other women.” [p. 6] Even if an individual woman is not selling sex herself, in Gira Grant’s view that woman is offering a product in competition with that offered by sex workers, and anti-prostitution laws are to be understood as economically protectionist policies. Fuck Laws rather than Corn Laws, so to speak.

      Grant sounds like one of those MRAs who complain that laws against prostitution enable women to maintain their evil, unfair sex cartel.

      Read the review, it’s really disturbing that anyone considers Grant a feminist. Third wave feminism has gone from implicitly to explicitly hostile to women.

      • Donkey Skin Says:

        ‘Third wave feminism has gone from implicitly to explicitly hostile to women.’

        So true, and what’s baffling is that so many women who consider themselves feminists can’t see it. I mean, they’re not exactly attempting to disguise it anymore, are they? You have sex-industry lobbyists like Grant flatly stating that women are responsible for male violence, while the trans activists insist that being born female is a privilege. And ‘feminists’ just swallow all this down without questioning it.

        Then again, Ditum was a sex-pozzie third-waver until recently (she took the pro-porn position against Gail Dines in a New Left Review debate a few years ago), so maybe more women will start to wake up to the now openly male supremicist agenda of third-wave ‘feminism’. We can only hope.

  18. Jane Says:

    (moved from Hambrook thread to keep that one on topic)

    Well it looks like biological sex is a construct so we can all go home:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/science/dna-double-take.html

    From biology class to “C.S.I.,” we are told again and again that our genome is at the heart of our identity. Read the sequences in the chromosomes of a single cell, and learn everything about a person’s genetic information — or, as 23andme, a prominent genetic testing company, says on its Web site, “The more you know about your DNA, the more you know about yourself.”

    But scientists are discovering that — to a surprising degree — we contain genetic multitudes. Not long ago, researchers had thought it was rare for the cells in a single healthy person to differ genetically in a significant way. But scientists are finding that it’s quite common for an individual to have multiple genomes. Some people, for example, have groups of cells with mutations that are not found in the rest of the body. Some have genomes that came from other people.

    Maybe someone here can tell me what this has to do with the price of tea in China, but the Twitter trans cult and friends are running with it:

    The Twitter thread linked above has a link to a study about a woman with a predominantly 46,XY Karyotype giving birth.

    Not really sure how this changes anything for most of the population, since one is slotted into class male or class female based on perceived reproductive capacity status.

    It seems to me having a handful of male DNA floating around in my body would not make me intersex and is not terribly relevant to the question of biological sex.

    • Adrian Says:

      Well, if we want to be honest… vast majority of people never have anyone sequence their genome.

      You put it exactly right with “one is slotted into class male or class female based on perceived reproductive capacity status.” And that presumption is done based on external genitalia observations. Shape of structures. In reality.

      Your sex (i.e. the presumption you can get pregnant or not) is as much a part of you and NOT RANDOM as your race is. This whole “assigned male at birth” nonsense from people with 100% functional and normally formed penises is just crazy.

      And yet we’re told every day by the pomo-sexual set that somehow claiming to be “transracial” or “transethnic” is a joke and impossible and in fact a horrible appropriation of the struggles of minority populations (when it’s claimed by a white person claiming to be “really black inside, really” or “but I have a Japanese soul!” in the US), but transgender is Really Real because hey, hormones! Someone did a study one time! It might possibly be a reason so I’ll assume it’s the reason! I have a laydee brain!

      I’ve taken to asking the other question when people trot out the “but… but hormones! Brain parts size!” thing, these days. And it would work for odd chromosome situations too.

      Namely, if someone is so sure that his being trans is a physical condition, that his brain has the out of bound measurements, or an F2T is sure that her breasts must have Y chromosomes and that Proves It All! then I have to ask them, “are you willing to submit to the physical measurement then, and if you’re not in fact anything other than 100% in normal ranges for your obvious biological sex, are you willing to admit you’re not really trans and abandon the idea of transitioning?”

      …somehow I don’t think I’d get many takers. Wanna submit to the MRI, then? But oh no that’d be horrible GATEKEEPING, wouldn’t it?

      It’s like there’s all these people who just use the existence of people with various intersex conditions as some sort of talisman for themselves to be able to say “but THEORETICALLY there are people who are not what they seem!” even while never in a million years claiming that THEY specifically have the conditions in question.

      Talk about appropriation…

    • Teal Deer Says:

      Any little straw to grasp at for validation. “I have female genes in some random part of my body, so I’m a wooooomun!” How about the donkey genes in your left heel? Do those make you a jackass? Nope, I guess there are other reasons for that.

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        LOL🙂

      • Annoyed Bi Chick Says:

        I have chimerical ears (that I know of) — one ear has soft wax, and one ear has hard wax. One of those types of wax is primarily found in people of Asian or Eurasian descent, so I really don’t know how I wound up with it. Do I get to change my name to something Chinese now because I’m obviously genetically part-Asian?

        (Or more likely, I just have a random mutation that causes coincidentally the same thing…)

        Oh, and while we’re at it, can we give Christianity part of the blame for the antipathy toward gatekeeping in this culture? After all, it’s not like in this culture you actually have to do anything to be a Christian; you just have to say you are one.

      • Anon Male Says:

        Obviously he failed at being a real man… and a Scotsman.

    • BadDyke Says:

      Reading the whole of the article (although NOT the actual scientific papers), the issue becomes blindingly clear AND totally irrelevant to planet trans. Because the main issues seem to be chimerism (mixture of genomes/cells) arising from having an opposite sex twin,. and rather rare I suspect.

      The rest is FETAL cells that enter the mothers system during pregnancy. So, the MALE DNA found in breast tissue is from HER son. And wasn’t there before she became pregnant. So certainly not male since forever then…………..

      Genetic sex still as sound as ever, just that the FEMALE body has to do some really amazing stuff to sustain a pregnancy, and why FEMALE biology is rather different to male biology.

      And certainly NOT of any relevance to M2T.

      • Guls Says:

        Interesting, scientifically. Insights into the complexity of our biology are being uncovered all the time. Does this legitimise the intrusion of penis-bearing beings into women’s bathrooms/locker-rooms/penal facilities (or de-legitimise the fear and anger or the women intruded upon) etc… no. Does it change the binary nature of human reproduction upon which all sexism – including so-called trans-misogyny – is predicated? Not a jot. Specious arguments and acts often flow from scientific research conducted in good faith.

  19. Sage Says:

    This propaganda is ridiculous. Most of these people have deep-rooted psychological issues that “gender therapists” misdiagnose, and when the shit hits the fan after “reassignment” (mutilation) surgery fails to bring relief, they don’t give three shits about their “gender patients”.

    Now, these “trans activists” are going after toddlers because they act a certain way. I dare one of these trannies to tell me that my child is “in the wrong body”!!!! This is a disgrace to children!

    • Sage Says:

      And, the left jumps in the bandwagon not caring one bit about the consequences of these trans lunatics going after children. This is the reason the left is in a cadaver state. Anything goes is the new thing!

      You like being a dog? You feel furry? Can you bark? Do you sniff other butt****? Then, you are a dog! Let’s get you into species reassignment surgery, shall we!!!!!

    • cerulean blue Says:

      WHO is the target audience for this song??? Are they really so immature that they need sock puppets singing to them about drug warnings? Or is this “cute” propaganda for little kids? Disgusting.

    • JDaniel Says:

      Profoundly disturbing.

      • vande Says:

        It’s only disturbing if you think teaching little kids to mainline is bad. Ya, you’re right – it’s REALLY disturbing! (Is that video even legal?)

    • moira Says:

      Ugh. So one depressing thing is that all the “don’t”s are things people tried and found out about the hard way. All I could think was, I wonder how many women stabbed themselves in the clit and got infections so that this dumb PSA could put that in their rhyme scheme.

      I knew an ftm who was using the gel and whose girlfriend (who was very into being femme) starting becoming hirsute. In this vid, that translates to “your friends might start puberty.” What a gross euphemism, but right in line with something that I think is a common unconscious belief for ftms: that male puberty is actually the only kind, and becoming a woman means being trapped as a perpetual child. That’s the kind of internalized misogyny I was working with, and didn’t even know I had.

      Also it’s so disingenuous to be like “*this* way is safe and fine!!” because obviously it’s not a given that there’s anything safe about this stuff for females, regardless of delivery method. So yeah, “this is not medical advice”—no kidding? Maybe stop normalizing this shit and lulling people into complacency about it with fake muppets, then.

      Seriously, when I was shooting T it was a weird, very fringe behavior–and I wish it had stayed that way, at least. It’s disturbing beyond belief to hear from so many young women, especially lesbians, that going through a gender identity crisis is practically a required rite of passage now. What does it mean that this has become part of what it means to be a young lesbian? To experience total dissociation from your body and your femaleness? And intense sex dysphoria is by no means even a prerequisite? Sex dysphorics are definitely not the target audience here–a clit spelled with an asterisk is still a clit. So that’s what’s being normalized here, too–that transition is this broadly applicable panacea for gender unrest. Great. (Not that I think “transition” is an appropriate cure for sex dysphoria either; from my perspective can just exacerbate that problem in the end…but at least it makes more sense from the patient demand side than this gender-happy insanity.)

      • GallusMag Says:

        I have definitely seen f2ts recommend application of topical testosterone to beard areas and clit to increase growth. An apparent myth. I have also seen m2t recommend applying testosterone cream to the testicles to preserve fertility/erectile function while on cross-sex HRT, including both “she-male” transgender porn performers and men who would like to impregnate women.

        Re: health effects of synthetic testosterone- there is a big class action suit going on now for the many men who suffered cardiac arrest, stroke, and death as a result of the “Got Low Testosterone?” pharma marketing campaign of recent years. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/29/testosterone-heart-risks/4967795/ Yet outcomes for women who are being prescribed these drugs off-label have never even been studied and are not included in the suit. This whole “it’s all good and perfectly safe even though it’s a class III medication being prescribed off-label by informed consent to 14 year olds” bullshit is absolutely terrifying both in terms of breeching all medical ethics and in the huge numbers of women and girls effected.

        We know pharmaceutical estrogen causes blood clots- DVT and stroke- in males, and we know that pharmaceutical testosterone causes high blood pressure, elevated cholesterol, and liver disease in women (and that doses are often double the natural male levels when “therapy” is initiated by some providers). Yet after sixty years of medicalized transgenderism, the outcomes of such treatments have never been reliably tracked. As for “puberty blockers” only one very limited study has ever been done, cut off after only 12 months, with no further follow-up. The manufacturers of such drugs have clearly stated that no outcome data is available, yet these drugs have been celebrated as “perfectly harmless and reversible” in nearly every news report and by every pro-gender advocacy group. And now by sock puppets.

        Fucking sock puppets singing “Don’t rub T on yer face” are the literal medical authorities for transgender drug regimes.


      • @ Gallus

        It gets worse: Even if there are studies about how synthetic hormones damage health – this doesn’t mean that the people who depend on these things will come to the conclusion that it’s indeed the hormones which make them sick.

        A few months ago there was a big discussion on tumblr because one trans “woman” got sick. He was in pain, felt bloated, was over emotional and so on. He also mentioned that he knew more trans women who felt this way.

        His conclusion -period cramps (!!). Women tried to explain to him that this is not possible because he lacks female organs. But no! Not in trans land. Then he tried to use fantasy trans science: Somehow his brain tried to connect with his uterus (which doesn’t exist of course) and this somehow made him feel that way.

        Yes dude. It’s your period. That’s why you feel bad. Not the hormones or another illness. *facepalm*

        He still thinks this bullshit. I just saw it a few days ago. Either it was him or another deluded person. I can imagine that this bullshit spread like a wildfire.

      • Adrian Says:

        @Moira “Maybe stop normalizing this shit…”

        Exactly. I think that is precisely where the “style” of this video is coming from. It’s all about normalizing it, giving the viewers a sort of “warm fuzzy hey it’s all okay, Mr. Rogers!” sort of nostalgic kid-feeling about all this.

        You can find a lot of things in this same sort of aesthetic, posters too, on the internet, with this “hey, see, it’s all easy, we have just the facts, and it’s easy, anyone can do it!” design to them. A lot of pages or suggested posters about the current trans ideology (the whole “born in the wrong body, because hormones!” thing) similarly use cartoons and kid-language, the sort of “school filmstrip” sort of design. So even if you’re 12, hey, you can understand! And tell your friends! People say this stuff is complicated but it isn’t! Anyone who says it is is just a hater. We’ll give you the real facts.

        …creeps me out, too. This plus the endless selfies from what is probably the intended audience of the video, all over tumblr.


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