Feminists! Check your friends!

March 17, 2014

charlie hale f word

The following Mansfeminist Manifesto appeared today on “The F-Word” website (the word which cannot be spoken being Feminism, apparently). The guy who wrote it submitted the post FIVE MONTHS past his deadline, which explains the reference to him as being “November’s guest blogger”. The post is “Who your friends are matters” by Charlie Hale. Enjoy!

 Who your friends are matters 16 March 2014, 11:01

Tags: feminism, friends, friendship, guest blogger, no platform, platforms

This is Charlie Hale’s first guest post for The F-Word. They’ll be blogging for us throughout November. Charlie Hale is a Computer Science student and blogger by night and asleep by day. They’re a genderqueer, kinky, polyamorous pan/bisexual who can’t keep their mouth shut.

 A recurring theme within a certain sector of feminism, which we might refer to as privileged, professional or media feminism, is the pushing back at criticism based on friendships or political alliances. To critique one’s friends, they argue, is creepy, or scary, even a totalitarian-esque attack on the freedom of association – entirely missing the significance of these associations. No one will find unanimous agreement on everything with everyone; even between friends, there is – and should be – large scope for disagreement. However, there are some issues on which disagreement should be a clear cut deal breaker: I could not, for example, be friends with Fred Phelps, Vladimir Putin or Norman Tebbit, whatever the circumstances.

Why not? Well, because they’re vile human beings. Who would want the company of someone so appalling? However, more than this, it would give endorsement – on both personal and political levels – to their views and actions. My friendship would imply their views were, to me, credible; that I felt these views were welcome in society. This applies to events as well: to invite bigoted and frankly unacceptable views to be aired on your platform is to give them tacit validation and approval. This isn’t a matter of endorsing the truth of an associate’s views, but rather the acceptability of them.

[Now… who are the feminists who are friends with Vladamir Putin, etc, whose associations are of such concern to Charlie? I think you can see where this is going. There are actually NO feminists who are friends with these gents. This is called “building a straw man”. But there are some sort of feminists associating with something or someone that, to Charlie is, (as the kids say) “worse than Hitler”. Ammirite? ]

“This is the primary idea behind no-platforming: the practice of an organisation refusing to give a platform to someone, and/or a person refusing to speak on the same stage or panel as them – something which is the responsibility of any responsible organiser or speaker. Inviting such speakers not only negatively impacts the climate of the movement, but actively makes marginalised people feel less safe and welcome in the event and the movement as a whole.”

[Hmmm. So feminist women who are personal friends with Fred Phelps, etal, (of which there are none) should, if they DID exist, be no-platformed from expressing their own views due to that non-existent association, according to this fellow Charlie, a man who feels comfortable telling women how to run our own liberation movement, and telling women who we can associate with. Okayyy…]

“In many cases, a person’s problematic politics will be dismissed as “not problematic enough” to warrant no-platforming: this, however, is a blatant display of privilege. If you are in the position where you are able to wave away oppressive behaviour with no personal ill-effects, you are almost certainly not in the position where you could reasonably speak for that oppressed group.”

[So women cannot trust our own judgment about which politics a feminist’s friend has, which are “problematic” enough to taint a woman via “contagion”, requiring her to be quarantined using the “no platform” method. (Are you keeping up here laydees?) Moreso, the very fact that we deem something NOT “problematic” should be a giant red flag that we are privileged cunts too stupid to know when something IS “problematic” for Charlie, a man who is oppressed by women. I do sooooo hope you are keeping up here, dear readers.]

“It is never the privileged who suffer from the toxic atmosphere – and, from a platform of privilege, that can be easy to ignore. Active engagement with less privileged members of a movement is the only real way to promote accessibility.”

[“less privileged” than women: Charlie, who needs you to “engage” with him, listen to him, and trust his judgement over your own stupid cuntedness.]

“There is some pragmatism required. It is usually unreasonable to expect someone to call out their boss – as journalist Laurie Penny has been pressured lately to do. I generally don’t expect people to starve for their feminism and we can’t assume that people are always able to actively tackle problematic views from their superiors without risking their own well-being.”

[He doesn’t expect TOO MUCH from you laydees. Charlie doesn’t require you to actually starve for him! He’s a reasonable guy vis a vis you meeting his male feminist needs.]

“However, active endorsements of problematic individuals and groups must be tackled. Feminists who cosy up to TERfs, white supremacists or misogynists for their own advancement – or, as is becoming common, to seek sympathy from problematic groups having been called out – must understand the serious damage they are inflicting. Placing the views of the oppressors above the safety of the oppressed sends a very clear message: ‘my feminism is for me, and my ilk, and us alone’. This is as much a part of the patriarchy as what they claim to be fighting against.”

[Ohhhh… feminists who “cozy up” to “terfs”! Feminists who exchange ideas (or friendship!) with RADICAL feminists, with UNDISTILLED feminism, with feminism that centralizes FEMALE (and not Charlie’s) concerns. Oh thattttt. And the feminists cozying up to white supremacists and misogynists? Who are they? Oh hell, I’m going to guess they are WOMAN-CENTERED feminists TOO! And we’ll just call them “Vlad Putin Fred Phelps Hitler Racist Misogynist-type Feminists” too! Because Charlie!

I love this part: “…as is becoming common, to seek sympathy from problematic groups having been called out”. Ohhh Noeeee! Women become alienated when you try to isolate them, control them, tell them who they can be friends with, tell them not to trust their own judgment, tell them what to think, tell them how to speak, make them perform loyalty tests, threaten to publicly smear them, call them degrading names?  Awww. Sorry, Charlie.

Hey wait a minute. Who is this Charlie person anyway and why should women obey him? I’m not questioning, mind- because questioning would be a HUGE red flag that I’m about to do something cuntly and not at ALL prioritizing Charlie’s oppression as a man over that of the women worldwide who are keeping him down! I’m just curious, you see, and trying to educate my stupid cuntly self.

charlie hale

This is Charlie. He says he is genderqueer. You must obey him. If you don’t, he and his friends will rain hell upon you- or at least unload a disconcerting spam-like stream of internet messages to yourself and whatever “platform” you are speaking on, possibly threatening suicide and murder and a shouty demonstration (where only a handful of his peeps will actually show up because they are all anti-social shut-ins who fear daylight).

This is Charlie showing you his kinky polyamorous porn-loving gender-lovin’ ass. “Obey it!” Charlie says. Charlie likes stackable plastic storage basins. Clean your room Charlie. Your mum isn’t going to do it anymore.

charlie hale dirty house

88 Responses to “Feminists! Check your friends!”

  1. Unperson Says:

    Too funny. Quite the worrywart ain’t he?

  2. Adrian Says:

    Oh, you should realize by now – the only “true feminists” who are allowed to speak on behalf of feminists, on behalf of women, are TRANS women (ideally of color!) because of course they are the only truly oppressed people in the world.

    Actual women who don’t buy into the “born in the wrong body” “female brain” “brain intersex” nonsense are all somehow magically white supremacists who sit on the sofa eating bonbons all day when they should be vacuuming and yet dare to complain about having it “so hard.” Why? Because feels.

    It would be hilarious if it weren’t so damn sad.

    And yeah Charlie, clean your damn room.

  3. morag99 Says:

    ” … or, as is becoming common, to seek sympathy from problematic groups having been called out.”

    Don’t know what this means, and don’t care. It’s a sneaky, weaselly, ugly chunk of sentence. Just what you’d expect from a pervert named Charlie in a tight skirt in a room full of messy boxes that are full of goodness-knows-what.

    But “cuntly” is a word invention I can get behind!

    • GallusMag Says:

      He’s talking about the tendency of women after they’ve been bullied by “transwomen” to realize that “those” other maligned feminists perhaps weren’t so “bad” as they’ve been led to believe. Women who get attacked falsely for being radical feminists tend to seek out radical feminism, if only to better understand what they’ve been “accused” of. Once they learn what it is, for themselves, they no longer try to distance themselves from us, even if they have more liberal feminist beliefs. Or quite frequently they discover they agree with quite a lot of it.

      • Motherhood Says:

        Yep so true GM. Look at me. Although I always like Shulamit Firestone.

      • LC Says:

        Well, what do you know, that’s how I ended up here, too! I was a supporter of transgenderism before I gave it much thought. I ended up becoming very confused by the consistently violent and anti-feminist messages from supposedly progressive “victims”. But they have to deceive and call out radical feminists, because no one would support them once they take too close a look at the trans community. Once I started to do the research, I managed to talk my mother and a couple friends more toward the radical feminist side of the debate… a start anyway. Most of the so-called liberal feminists(myself once included) are rather shallow and uninformed, to say nothing of the general public- and that’s the way these people have been so successful.

        Thank you for all you do, Gallus. When public opinion turns against the trans crowd, I’m sure your words will play a huge part in it.


      • “Once they learn what it is, for themselves, they no longer try to distance themselves from us, even if they have more liberal feminist beliefs”

        Yep. That is EXACTLY how I found my way here.

        I used to be a little LBGT champion. Even bought the “LBGTerrific” shirt.

        When I was a teenager I used to berate my twin brother for calling them dudes.

        I finally went “NOPE” after seeing women torn down for wanting their own space and the freedom to talk about women’s issues.

        And the crazy amounts of policing of women:

        “Saying abortion is a women’s issue is offensive to trans women and trans men”

        Re: http://feministing.com/2011/04/11/why-i-wont-be-talking-about-abortion-as-a-womens-issue-anymore/

        And that by that reasoning, nothing is a women’s issue any more.

        Everything becomes a “human issue” which distracts from the real problem.
        I realised it was exactly like the “But women do X too!!”.
        It was MRA speak dressed up under the guise of progress.
        It was complete erasure of women.

        We were designated ‘CIS’ women. It was a complete re frame of me as a person. I wasn’t ‘CIS’ anything and it annoyed me that it was assumed that women’s problems were less than those of people who are male.

        The crazier it got, the more I sought out contrary opinions.
        Surely I wasn’t the only one that thought this made no sense?

        Eventually, I found my way to CB’s blog and then here🙂

        The harder the trans brigade push, the more women (and men) will realise how completely and utterly fucked their ideology is.

        ““It is never the privileged who suffer from the toxic atmosphere – ”

        No, men never suffer the toxic atmosphere from men in women’s bathrooms, change rooms and rape shelters.

      • morag99 Says:

        Ah, I see. Thanks for the translation, Gallus. I wouldn’t have got that in a million years! It’s very tiresome to listen to people who want to say something, but without actually saying it, so they settle for a combination of both and throw in a weasel phrase such as “problematic group.”

        He could’ve written something clearly, the way you did: “When we call out women for being TERFs, they tend to seek out radical feminism to better understand what we’re talking about. This is bad and dangerous, as it sometimes leads to a sympathetic alliance, so I forbid it.” But then he’d be admitting that that’s a pretty reasonable and intelligent thing for a woman/feminist to do, if only to satisfy her own curiosity. So, for him it’s better to say “problematic group” and put it in the close company of words which evoke shame, such as “white supremacists” and “misogynists,” and just hope his audience feels the shameful connection, but without any clarity.

        Manipulation stinks.

      • Adrian Says:

        I guess I’m the odd one out, I found this website while obsessively looking up all the links about the “transabled” — but I’m very glad I did (and was happy to find a place not buying it!). I should say so more often.

      • DD Says:

        Hey ho, count me in as one who found Gender Trender et al via being called a TERF. I was like, what’s that? So I Googled, and eventually, here I am. Thanks, trans asshole! If not for being directed here, I’d still be alone and asking myself hmmm, why doesn’t this trans stuff many sense and why am I the ONLY person who sees to have noticed this?

        One thing I must say for the trans assholes: THANK YOU for bringing me into the company of feminists again. I had become complacent and apolitical over the last few years, as if the big battles for lesbians had already been won. Then you guys came roaring in to let us know the patriarchy is still in charge… well fuck you. Now that we know who you are, we are UNITING AGAINST YOU. Your plan is backfiring. Still in the talking phase, but don’t worry. We will rise together, as always.(And hi, sisters. It has been TOO LONG.)

  4. Choco Says:

    Why do I have a feeling he’s probably best friends with Flavia Dzodan?

  5. GallusMag Says:

    These guys are so terrified at how quickly radical feminism is spreading. Who will pretend their dicks are “female” any more? Or laydee brains?

    I’ve seen them recently attack libfems AT LENGTH for “liking” a tweet of women who are radical feminists. It’s this huge wave of trans-mycarthyism. It makes a libfem curious indeed.

    • morag99 Says:

      Ahem. Cough. Let me warm up my voice … do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do … okay, ready:

      There was a time when feminists were kind
      When their voices were soft
      And their words inviting
      There was a time when feminists were blind
      And the world was a song
      And the song was exciting
      There was a time–
      Then it all–went–wrong …

      (Heh!–I just watched Les Misérables the other night.)

      • GallusMag Says:

        LOL- Chorus:
        Feminists! Check your friends!
        Check your friends!
        Root them out!
        Nooooooooo Platformmmm
        Nooooo Plattttttttt FORMMMMMMM!

        hahahaha

      • Donkey Skin Says:

        Lol, Morag! Ah yes, the polite and man-loving version of feminism that is perpetually being given a bad name by disagreeable ladies who presume to think rebellious thoughts.

        I left a very measured comment on the F-word website about this article, nicely pointing out that no-platforming women for having unpopular opinions (or even associating with those who do!) was not the way to encourage intellectual growth and freedom of thought in any political movement. And mentioning how ineffective the second wave would have been if women had been scared to say what they think.

        They haven’t published it, so I’m assuming they have taken their genderqueer male overlord’s decree very much to heart. What a fucking parody of a parody third-wave liberal feminism has become. I fully expect them to shortly publish an article telling women that feminism means they need to learn to suck men’s dicks on command. Oh wait – Julia Serano already did that. Like I said, a parody of a parody.

      • DD Says:

        I personally am done with very measured replies. I’ve learned (and your experience may be different!) that no matter how patiently and clearly you explain why radical feminists should have a voice, you will be shouted down. IT IS NOT BECAUSE THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND YOU. They heard you the first time. They are shouting you down because you have risen out of turn and because you are daring to challenge their authority. Stop trying to explain. It’s time for rage.

    • Chapeau Says:

      Is it actually spreading ? I feel like it is deeply entrenched, and the demonization is effective at scaring women.

      • GallusMag Says:

        From my perspective it is spreading by leaps and bounds and hitting the mainstream of feminism. Big time.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Honestly I can’t even keep up with reporting all the new developments. BIG change from when I started this blog two years ago. HUGE.

      • DD Says:

        I am so thrilled to hear that radical feminism is spreading, Gallus Mag. I didn’t realize that it was a growing movement. It would be awesome if you could post about its spread and give your readers some hope. Sometimes it feels like I am helplessly just watching in horror as women’s lives and struggles are erased by the trans agenda. It would be great to know that our numbers are increasing and that there is hope for us to make a difference together.


      • Trust me its spreading. Trans activists are their own worst enemies. They drive women away.

      • GallusMag Says:

        @DD- I’m sorry you are not able to keep up with current events. I doubt I have more free time than you. When you have time to spare, perhaps look into it. Maybe you could start a blog and post about your findings. Link back if you do!

      • DD Says:

        I would love to write about how the radical feminist view is making inroads among mainstream feminists! I even have time to do so. Unfortunately, I don’t see this success from my perspective, though I do “keep up with current events” (sheesh!), In fact, I see radical and other gender-critical feminists being increasingly demonized and silenced. I see people listening raptly when men speak for women, and I see women in my community completely demoralized. I am glad to hear that things are better than I thought. Was just hoping to hear your perspective on it, I completely respect that you have different priorities!

      • GallusMag Says:

        @DD- Well my priority is not to spend my scant free moments being goaded into summarizing recent/current events for someone who has oodles of time but is too lazy (?) to do a five minute google search on the explosion of support for radical feminist speech and analysis among mainstream feminists. Or the HUNDREDS (thousands?) of new R/F themed blogs. Or the awakening of mainstream NON-feminist culture to radical feminist analysis and ideas and activism (actually ASSISTED by our cwazy transactivist pals- hahaha!). If that’s what you mean.

        In the long run what DD thinks or what GM thinks doesn’t matter. What matters is that it is happening. However I DO hope women take time to support those mainstream feminists recently under attack by genderists- (glosswitch, Gia, sarah ditum, moore, etc.).

  6. mamadiana1 Says:

    men can not be feminist ever….. get over yourself and yes i also agree CLEAN THAT PIGSTY OF A ROOM PLEASE.

    do you see now some of the difference in socializing you received as a male born and some of the female born answerers?

  7. scab Says:

    I actually feel a teeny bit sorry for him. He’s a grebo that likes wearing a skirt. If he had only been born 10/15 years earlier he would have been into Faith No More and would have found friends that way.

    Damned Conservatism ( i.e Norman Tebbit) that is prevalent in current internet culture dude.


  8. What a manipulative and creepy arsewipe.

    • BadDyke Says:

      “Charlie Hale is a Computer Science student..” ANOTHER creepy computer guy! WHY would the F-word ask such a bloke to write a guest post? Seems any supposedly-feminist website HAS to have its quota of genderqueer dick-brains telling women how they’re doing feminism wrong, or suffer the wrath of the skirt-wearing kinky brigade. Or maybe they just threaten to do some Comp. Sci. clever hacker shit on them?

      The doublespeak is strong with this one. Take this sentence:
      “Placing the views of the oppressors above the safety of the oppressed sends a very clear message: ‘my feminism is for me, and my ilk, and us alone’.”

      This COULD be taken as meaning — feminists shouldn’t feel obliged to listen to or take account of the views of the oppressors (i.e. men/males), shouldn’t place male views about their right to enter the laydees bathroom cos feelings….. ABOVE those actual oppressed persons (i.e. women/females) who say that such things DIRECTLY effect their safety.

      Our feminism is OURS, for and by women, and Mr Kinky CS student should just butt-out, however sexee he thinks his arse looks in that skirt……………..

      Nope, instead it means women/females should just SHUT-UP and listen to what Mr Kinky and his genderqueer and tranny male friends have to say about what is legitimate feminism.

      Well, shows me very clearly what bollocks the F-Word (probably) is — else I might have been under the misapprehension that it was something to do with women and feminism. Obviously not, so now I won’t waste my time looking………………..

      But HOW did we go from:

      1) Letting a few trannies in cos we really DIDN’T want them getting their heads kicked in for daring to wear a dress, and we did kind of feel sorry for them…

      TO:

      2) Letting them dictate the feminist agenda.

  9. luckynkl Says:

    Gallus said: “(where only a handful of his peeps will actually show up because they are all anti-social shut-ins who fear daylight).”

    Fear daylight? LOL. Gyn-energy sucking vampires. Does garlic still work? How ’bout RF blessed holy water? Do they scream “it burns, it burns, no platform!” if holy water is thrown at them?


  10. These men should be a complete and utter laughing stock, I really don’t get how they are taken seriously anywhere at all.

    The rank hypocrisy as well – that female persons must be perfect 24/7 (perfection as defined by whatever man is holding forth at that point), and yet they expect more or less no standards at all for male behaviour. Well, unless your actually pol-pot or something.

    Also “feminists who cosy up to terfs … for their own advancement” is ridiculous. The consequence of daring to say that biology is real, or that women have a right to say “no”, is death & rape threats, lies, harrasment and no platforming. How the hell is that “advancement” ?

    • Chapeau Says:

      It’s advancement: instead of staying stuck at rank 0, waiting for men’s orders, you get to build your skills, your power, your knowledge, to work and eventually to achieve things for yourself and not for a man or men.

  11. as Says:

    “They’re a genderqueer, kinky, polyamorous pan/bisexual who can’t keep their mouth shut.”

    That’s one hella awkward sentence. Initially I scanned back to check if they were talking about multiple persons.

    • babaszep Says:

      He’s as many people as he says he is, you fascist Batshit-Excluding-Real-Female!

    • morag99 Says:

      You tell ’em, babaszep.

      They has multitudes inside themselves, and they is a cornucopia of rich, kinky insights. They spills over with delectable bites of edifications for our poly-nourishment. We should cup our hands together to catch their queerly tumbling overflow. They knows. To disrespect their bi-themhood, to question it, is violence. Have faith in pan-themdom, for it has come. A-men!

  12. Jane Says:

    Kinkshaming is simply an entry-level thoughtcrime that leads inevitably to all other thoughtcrimes.

    Not wanting pain inflicted on you during sex is patriarchy. Got it.

    • morag99 Says:

      “Kinkshaming is simply an entry-level thoughtcrime … ”

      Brilliantly put, Jane. And that complete reversal about who, exactly, is espousing patriarchal BS is a feat of intellectual dishonesty. Well, men always know best, right?

      • BadDyke Says:

        Feminsist come out with patriarchal bullshit is, I guess, just another typical reactionary ‘defence’, akin to right-wing white folks claiming blacks are racist.

        Tack home message is, they ain’t got no actual ARGUMENTS, so will just sling out any insults that come handy, to confuse the worried liberals into accepting whatever they have to say. After all, once you’ve been bullied into accepting that someone is a woman just because they SAY they are, what grounds have you left for doubting/questioning anything ELSE they say! Critical faculties not welcome in transland (because once you start to THINK, then you relaise that it is ALL nonsense!).

      • morag99 Says:

        Yes, BadDyke, the whole reversal (when men like Mr. Kinky are accusing women of being pro-patriarchy) is exactly akin to “reverse-racism” and especially to “reverse-sexism.” But, they know enough to know they can’t say that. So, the charge of reverse-sexism is repackaged in queer-post-modern-inspired language. That means lots of words, and awkward passive constructions, that leave many readers scratching their heads.

        And, yeah, once you’ve been bullied to accept the authority of a man declaring himself a woman, against all common sense, the way is paved to accept all his other wordy words, no matter how non-sensical.

  13. liberalsareinsane Says:

    Avery Edison and this worthless douche both have that same dumb smirk. The pic of douche bent over in the skirt desperately needs a steel toed boot.

  14. Guls Says:

    …So I was reading the above, trying to follow Charlie’s train of thought and chuckling at GM’s cutting, sardonic takedowns, when…

    I scrolled down to his image. Yikes! looks just like me at 18 (minus the big nose, including the messy bedroom).

    On a more serious note, what exactly is ‘(a) genderqueer, kinky, polyamorous pan/bisexual who can’t keep their mouth shut’?

    A stereotypical guy, who, like, sometimes wears a skirt? But why use plain English when convoluted, pomo jargon makes you feel so much more important?


    • @ Guls

      “genderqueer, kinky, polyamorous pan/bisexual who can’t keep their mouth shut’”

      Translation: A failed alpha male who likes sex, sex and sex with anyone because he’s desperate who can shout really loud over women’s voices

      Seriously, most of these guys are classic failed ‘alpha’ males.
      They believe they are exemplary men that have lost their standing and privilege. They blame women for their lack of sex and their lack of status.

      They can’t compete against men and re-invent themselves as polyamorous, heteroromatic- pansexual crazy-pants special snowflakes because there is absolutely nothing interesting or attractive about them. They want female attention without actually doing anything.

      Why can’t these guys learn a skill, make something, learn a language, become fitter or even GROOM THEMSELVES? (His eyebrows are bugging me)

      This whole genderqueer/trans thing is like MRA peacocking. They need to draw attention to themselves to grab the attention of females.
      It’s also about trying to be different to distinguish themselves from the crowd whilst remaining safe in their own little clique of transgenders.

      • Smits Says:

        I’ve had a number of conversations with women about how it’s only a matter of time before (more) MRAs realise that they can run out of the ~friendzone~ and into the arms of the funfems if only they claim to be “genderqueer” or “butch trans women” or whatever. it’s seen as this ultimate act of progressive cred to fuck a dude who pretends not to be a dude. the politics of MRAs and trans males are basically identical at the “please someone suck my tiny dick” root.

  15. SheilaG Says:

    You have so nailed the smirk, I’ve seen it dozens of times in photos of these creeps, especially the Michigan photos. Great way to see right through them. This guy takes the cake with the jargon, the male preditory tripe, the telling women what to do, the butt the messy room, the pock marked smirky face UGH He ugly!!!

    “OH.MY.God. I’ve had a theory for some time that Autogynephilia could literally be diagnosed by facial recognition software that picks up a certain type of smug male smirk. They ALL have it: Toby Hill Meyer, Avery Edison, Natalie Reed, Marci Hawkins, Zinnia Jones, Tara Hewitt, Julia Serano, etc etc etc. I’ve had a project on the back burner- of doing a photo montage illustrating “The Autogynephilic Smirk”. I”M NOT KIDDING!”

  16. belindieG Says:

    I don’t need a man to tell me how to be a feminist. And surely not an ugly guy with stubble, greasy hair and an old skirt. Where do these fake-women get off?


  17. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/transgender-people-will-be-able-to-alter-birth-certificates-20140316-34vt0.html

    Toby’s Law Australia!

    Hooray for the women of the ACT.

    And of course, Allan Brain (Hi Allan) makes himself known.

    From the article:

    “But the new laws will allow someone to identify as male, female or ”X”, without surgery.
    All they need is for a doctor or psychologist to certify they have received ”appropriate clinical treatment” – which is deliberately not defined, leaving it to the doctor or psychologist.”


  18. The F-Word have actually published some comments which are critical of the article. But they’ve also felt the need to respond and tell everyone why they’re wrong..They’re not a feminist website anymore, just pro-trans pro-prostitution with the odd feminist articl

  19. Unperson Says:

    Is there no end to barmy NWO legislation in the ACT?

    I’m not sure non-Australians would know what the ACT is, but it’s the home of federal politics, a ‘territory’, not a state and loony legislation looms large there. Being the home of fed politics they get an unusually large budget since politicians have to live there for a large part of the year and uh it’s sorta like local councils gone mad.

  20. Ashland Avenue Says:

    Oh, Charlie just loves that word “problematic,” doesn’t he? Doesn’t that make him just the most precious social justice warrior evah?

    Fuck off, Charlie. I don’t need some twenty-something shitstain dudebro to tell me how to be a woman or a feminist, thank ya very much. I’ve been doing it naturally and quite well for a lot longer than I suspect Charlie’s been staining this planet with his existence. And I especially don’t need some twerp telling me who my friends should be.

    Go wank off into that skirt, Charlie. You know you want to. And so do we.

  21. Ashland Avenue Says:

    And yeah, for Christ’s sake, that room of his! What a fucking pig. Actually, that’s an insult to pigs, who are great animals. Let’s go with “lazy-ass disgusting slob” instead.

    On a different note, I’m friends with – and work with – women who have different opinions than mine on some political issues. We discuss things politely, and still treat each other with respect. We always manage to find common ground. It’s nice.

  22. sharonredwood Says:

    @Toby’s Law Australia and Canberratimes

    INTERSEX (DISORDERS OF SEXUAL DEVELOPMENT) ARE NOT THE SAME THING AS “GENDER IDENTITY” OR TRANSGENDER.

    I’m so sick of the transgender community shamelessly co-opting intersex. Evey major intersex organization makes a distinction between intersex and transgender. The vast majority of transgender identified people have NO genetic or medical disorder of sexual development. Before the surgery and hormones, they are physically no different than other people.

    Here they go again. Every time “gender identity” is brought up, they trot out intersex. Confusing the two in the public’s eye is a great marketing technique.

    “Jenny.. how terribly misinformed you are. There are many types of intersex conditions that are neither male nor female and it is very common. This is scientifically and medically well established. I encourage you to read up on this.. eg. Klinefelters syndrome, xxy, xxxy, xxxxy, mosaic and many others.. Maybe have a read of this link.. the idea of a binary gender (ie: just male and female) is just not reality.”

    Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/transgender-people-will-be-able-to-alter-birth-certificates-20140316-34vt0.html#ixzz2wLN8HqIY

    The only people who should be allowed to legally change their sex are people with rare disorders of sexual development. DSD can be proven with genetic testing or other medical tests. It’s something quantifiable instead of some letter from a therapist. There are “online gender therapists” who take credit cards. Which is more credible? Is it a lab test or some note from an online “gender therapist”? Most intersex people lived quiet lives and went about their business. Now, trans activist come along and demand that their psychological condition and/or culturally defined identification trump common sense and reality.

    When it’s clear that we are dealing with either a biological male or biological female, it flies in the face of common sense and science to say people can “change their sex”.

    Primates, both human and non-human, can’t change their sex. Humans and chimpanzee share 98% of the same DNA. It’s not very complicated. Go to any primate center or zoo. Watch the different species of primates for hours, and take notes if necessary. Do they change their sex? Mammals don’t change their sex. There are some species of fish that can change their sex, and earth worms and slugs are hermaphrodites.

    • Adrian Says:

      Hear hear.

      They use the existence of people with various disorders of sexual development almost as a talisman – “somewhere out there in the world there are people with 5-ard syndrome, so therefore sexual dimorphism isn’t real, therefore I have a laydee brain because hormones.”

  23. jo Says:

    We’ve already seen how MTF’s have had their mansplaining voices prioritized on “feminist” sites.
    Wow…this one doesn’t even identify as a woman/trans. That “feminist” site just allowed a dude to mansplain to women that they aren’t allowed to interact with more radical feminists. Because we’re like Putin.

  24. a cat Says:

    “In many cases, a person’s problematic politics will be dismissed as “not problematic enough” to warrant no-platforming: this, however, is a blatant display of privilege. If you are in the position where you are able to wave away oppressive behaviour with no personal ill-effects, you are almost certainly not in the position where you could reasonably speak for that oppressed group.”

    No no nooooo. I know what no-platforming means and it does not work like that.

    If you want to have a gathering where everyone in attendance has the same views as you, then refusing to invite someone who strongly disagrees isn’t no-platforming (if, say – and I apologise for using UK examples – the Tory party conference organisers don’t want a speaker from the Anarchist Federation, that’s not no-platforming), and you do not get to steal antifascist language to make “I just wanted all my maaaaates round” sound more noble and principled.

    Also, I would like to point out that as a woman who has experienced oppression based on my sex and my class I don’t remember electing a white privileged bloke with a skirt on to lecture me on “blatant displays of privilege”. He is the fucking walking epitome of privilege. How has it come to this?

    • Donkey Skin Says:

      ‘Also, I would like to point out that as a woman who has experienced oppression based on my sex and my class I don’t remember electing a white privileged bloke with a skirt on to lecture me on “blatant displays of privilege”. He is the fucking walking epitome of privilege. How has it come to this?’

      Please consider posting something like this on the F-word site, a cat. The site itself is a lost cause but women will be reading it and they need to see that this bullshit can be debunked. I now try to comment on almost any article to do with trans issues for this reason.

      That’s assuming the editors will even let such a comment through – one can only try. They ended up publishing my initial comment but not a follow-up one where I referred to Charlie as male.

      • jo Says:

        “Laura // Posted 19 March 2014 at 07:25

        And, yes, given that you and other commenters seem to want to make Charlie’s piece all about transphobia, I would include women who fight to exclude trans women from feminism/women-only space and push the view that trans women are men in the category of women who perpetuate the oppression of other women.”
        What a fucking bullshit reversal. How offensive. Personally I have no idea how to comment on this in a way they would approve.

    • Donkey Skin Says:

      Jo – I know, right?

      Women perpetuate the oppression of other women by oppressing men! How do ‘feminists’ who think this way even manage to function with that level of cognitive dissonance? Trans ‘feminism’ is indeed one giant fucking patriarchal reversal.

      WRT to commenting on trans issues on libfem sites, I usually compromise by carefully avoiding ‘misgendering’ (while also striving to avoid the use of ‘she’ and ‘her’, or any pronouns at all), which would mean the comment has no hope of being published. Besides being hella awkward, this does make it difficult to point to the main issue at hand; that is, that women are once again being told to subsume our own interests in favour of men’s and to defer to whatever men say. However, I would rather be published on the site and reach out to the libfems reading and affirm the instincts I know many women have that there is something wrong with this – to let them know that a more critical position exists, that it is OK to doubt this stuff.

      I thought it might be acceptable to the F-word to refer to a male genderqueer like Charlie as, um, male, but obviously not.

      (On mainstream/non-libfem sites, I ALWAYS make a point of ‘misgendering’ – to remind everyone of what is true.)

      • Adrian Says:

        I do the same thing – elaborately avoid pronouns by just using the person’s name. My other language does this naturally so it’s not hard to do. I know if I use biosex pronouns I’ll be rejected out of hand, so it’s a compromise of sorts.

        Often I’ll get comments published but absolutely it’s noticeable and sometimes I’ve been called on it.

      • a cat Says:

        Donkey Skin (great name!) I don’t think I can be “respectful” enough and I am not diplomatic like you. It’s certainly not that I hate trans people but I do hate the phenomenon of entitled and privileged MEN lording it over women and telling us how to think and behave. There is also a huge class element in this which everyone seems to ignore apart from you guys, but if you comment on that you get either “ooo, Oppression Olympics” or “Well at least you don’t face the threat of murder every day!” (because women are, apparently, never murdered – it’s only trans people who suffer violence and abuse). It’s a really bizarre version of politics cooked up by the privileged and forced down everyone else’s throats.

      • Choco Says:

        The whole misgendering thing smacks of abuse. We’re told that if us evil radical feminists were just nice enough and did exactly what MtTs demand-call them she, accept them as women, and generally use the “right/approved” language-then we wouldn’t be getting death threats. So once again it’s on the onus of women to placate the violent men, because they just can’t help themselves. How lucky for abusive men that now they have liberal feminists doing some of the work for them.

  25. shediogenes Says:

    It’s called surrounding yourself with sycophants, Charlie

  26. anon male Says:

    When doing raid content in World of Warcraft, I only ever group with polyamorous vegans. That’s the same thing as having friends, right?

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      Aaaaaand once again I’m left wishing I could meet you for drinks in some gay/lesbian bar so we could mock all the adherents to Gay Inc. In lieu of that, cheers.

  27. Gertrude Carlyle Says:

    who saw this? big fight in comments, as usual:

    http://www.cracked.com/article_20997_5-shocking-realities-being-transgender-media-ignores.html

    tl;dr straight men aren’t buying that cotton ceiling stuff. lol

    • gabrielsglen Says:

      “If you flirt, you’re a liar”? no, what this says is if you have a penis dont flirt with straight men because straight men do not like to date people with penises


    • Eurgh, I had to nope the fuck out of that comment thread.

      The unbelievable amounts of stupid.

      “Sex and gender are not the same. Sex is biology, gender is identity” repeated over and over again.

      Not a single person defined gender.
      What is it? It’s not innate, so is it clothing, behaviour, place of work?
      Doesn’t that just mean you’re enforcing stereotypes by saying that X behaviour means you’re a woman/man?
      Why do we need gender?
      If we got rid of gender and it’s associated roles, then what?

      Seriously, are these people capable of critical thought at all?

      They can analyse lesbian sexuality with a fucking fine tooth comb but can’t actually de-construct the very thing that restricts all people.

      It is insanity.


      • But wait, no…IT IS PHYSICAL!

        CONTRADICTIONS:

        “No, transsexualism is a problem with one’s body. It has nothing to do with gender roles.

        It is a biological issue that the brain is wired up in opposition to the rest of the body.

        If there was no difference between how girls and boys were considered, there would still be transsexuals. Whilst masculinity and femininity may be socially constructed, physical sexed characteristics are not!”

        So, it now is physical like sex!
        ————————————–

        “Just something I need to clear up because by reading some of these comment, there seems to be some confusion. Sex refers to your anatomical designation, ie male or female. Gender is a term defined by society to refer to one’s identity, ie man or woman. (I’m using just the black/white distinctions for simplicity.)

        It actually bugs me to no end to hear someone wonder what a baby’s gender is. Well, you’ll have to wait a few years until that baby is grown-up enough to answer him/herself. Their sex, however, can sometimes be determined pretty quickly.”

        So babies are born genderless? So that means that it’s not inborn/physical!
        —————————

        “Brain gender and body sex develop at different stages of prenatal development and are heavily dependent on hormones (not just chromosomes). If for some reason the mother ends up with an odd dose of “wrong” hormones at one stage of development or the other (and this can, and has happened which can explain not only transgender, but also intersex and XX males and XY females, which do exist), a person can easily end up with a female brain, and male body, or the other way around.”

        “Medically speaking, being transgendered should be considered a neurological birth defect instead of a mental illness. During brain development in utero, the baby’s brain gets a wash of varying strength of estrogen or testosterone. This causes the white matter matrix to develop somewhat differently in males and females, with the strength of the sex hormone it’s exposed to determining how strongly “innately” gendered the individual in question will be. In a certain amount of cases, 1 out of X births, the developing brain will get a wash of the opposite sex hormone, causing it to develop on the same lines of the brain of an opposite sex child. They have proved this with autopsies. Apparently they’re working on a brain scan that should be able to detect the white matter differences between transgendered individuals and cisgendered individuals, which would save a lot of time and heartache”

        No, it’s inborn! From hormones in the womb!
        ————————

        “No, aSandwich, you are wrong. You can have a “female” body (i.e. with ovaries and a vagina) and have a “male” brain (i.e. you identify as male). The brain is what gives humans their identity, so if your brain says you are male, you are male, period. Having periods doesn’t make you a woman any more than losing your penis on an industrial accident does”

        HAVING PERIODS DOESN’T MAKE YOU A WOMEN ANY MORE THAN LOSING YOUR PENIS ON AN INDUSTRIAL ACCIDENT DOES.

        WHAT THE FUCK?!

        ———————————

        And finally, some actual sense:

        “Well, maybe for animals it’s impossible to consider themselves to be of another gender other than their biological one, because they don’t have societally constructed gender roles. However, for humans, gender has come to mean much more than one’s reproductive role. Besides, being trans-gendered isn’t necessarily about rejecting your genitalia. It just means that, partially or entirely, you reject soceity’s and other people’s perception on what you should be based on the genitalia you were born with. Also, you contradict yourself by saying that genitalia are the things that determine gender, and then going on to say that, even by removing or altering genitalia, you are still of the gender that is typically associated with your birth genitalia.”

        I can’t go on. I am actually getting dumber.

      • Adrian Says:

        Hell yes it enforces stereotypes. The entire “origin story” of “born in the wrong body” is BUILT on top of stereotypes. It’s a bunch of people who think they “recognize” a “woman’s way of thinking” in themselves and so they “must be women, really.”

        It’s ri-dong-dick-ulous is what it is. Pun fully intended.

        Meanwhile M2T who don’t pass are very much invested in shoring up this “dress = wimmin” business. Because they want to have a world where them putting on a dress and heels gives you the signal to know that they identify as women and therefore you should call them “she” and walk on all the requisite eggshells and not pop the illusion. Because if you let slip the obvious, they’ll Kill Themselves, dontcha know.

        Never mind that there are boys (boys, as in male, and happy to admit to same) who wear dresses or skirts on occasion AS boys, for similar reasons as men routinely in some climates wear robes or wraparound skirts – cool flowing airy garment, in summer. Those boys are not trans. They’re just boys in dresses.

        And of course also hordes of women and girls in pants. In fact you can find F2T complaining that it’s so mainstream for girls to wear pants, because this makes it “harder” for them vs. M2T, because they don’t get the “oh, okay, crossdressing, obviously must identify as the other sex” boost from wearing pants rather than a skirt, in 2014.

        As for “what is it?” with regards to gender, I’ve never had someone ever explain it. I can wrap my mind around the idea of dysphoria around genitalia (though I don’t see any reason at all that has to have any physical cause – psychology is plenty enough reason to explain that, however they want to “solve” it in the end) but this supposedly “fundamental” “deep seated” feeling that “you just ARE…AAAARRRE a woman/man” I just don’t get at all. Because supposedly it’s completely separate from “gender roles” and yet a thing, that just magically makes you really really want to perform what happen to coincidentally be those very stereotypical gender roles.

        Whole thing is a big pile of stereotypes as far as I’m concerned.


      • @ Adrian

        Exactly.

        We can define sex. We can’t define gender without relying on stupid stereotypes and gender roles. It’s all bullshit.

        I just enjoy watching them reverse their argument to suit their needs.

        “Your way of defining gender is stereotyping!” – someone

        “No, it’s biological. Hormone wash, brain sex, autopsies showed BTSc volumes are different, CHILDREN IDENTIFY AS TRANS ”
        -Trans person or ally

        “How can it be biological? You’re using bad science.
        Sex = chromosomes/genitals.
        If you scan all the brains of women, do they correlate with your theory?
        How can you be 100% sure you’re looking at a definitive female brain and not one affected by environment (cultural bias)?
        Are the 4 billion women on the planet who may have brain damage, alzheimers, schizophrenia, depression all going to have brains like that?
        And how many of them have vaginas and no Y chromosome?
        We can determine male and female quite clearly using sex. Furthermore, studies have shown that the brain between male and females show very little variation until puberty when the sex hormones come into play.
        How can someone assert they have a female brain as a child when it’s no different from a male brain (barring genetics)?” – someone

        “Oh, well sex and gender are different. Gender is identity. And it doesn’t hurt anyone!!!!!” – trans person of ally.

        “Your way of defining gender is stereotyping!” – someone

        It just goes round in circles until trans call you a biological essentialist and a bigot.

        I basically have this argument daily on Reddit. This argument or the argument against paedophilia.

        …Reddit is kind of a cess pool…

  28. SheilaG Says:

    Thanks Gertruce for the article link. A fascinating look into males who think they should have access to other males, and the cotton ceiling begins again. What about female body don’t these guys get. A heterosexual man is not going to want to go to bed with a man with a penis, anymore than a lesbian would. And they are trying to fool people, and it’s not cool!


    • @Sheila G

      I don’t understand who these males (trans) are trying to attract either.

      I know in South America they often get murdered for being trans and ‘deceiving’ heterosexual males.

      Why are they having sex with heterosexual males? Why are they targeting heterosexual males? Why not advertise as trans? In Canberra, our Sexual Services (prostitution section) of the news paper is over 50% transsexual adverts. Why try and hide it?

      (NB: I will state that some of the males who murder trans prostitutes KNOW they are having sex with men and kill because they’re ashamed of having sex with men. Also, because they are absolute fuckwit scum-suckers just like the men who kill women after sex because the women “tempted” them etc)

      ———

      If MtT want to have sex with men, why aren’t they trying to pick up at gay bars etc? Why does it have to be heterosexuals at a bar? If not for the whole “validate me as a woman”.

      It’s the same with autogynephiles.
      “Accept me as a woman because I am one, but I won’t have sex with other MtT because…uhh…reasons”.

      Why do MtT not seek out bisexual women? Why does it HAVE to be lesbians? Lesbians and gays seek out and have sex with bisexuals too. Most of the women I sleep with are bisexual.

      We have the internet now, you can connect from afar and build relationships without having that confrontational rejection.
      You can join forums for like minded people, people with your interests, people who may be okay with your ‘womanly’ penis.

      As for men coming up in bars and seeming interested, you can always say:

      “I’m not interested” or “I was actually born male”.

      Women (and men) navigate that shit ALL THE TIME to try and dissuade suitors:
      “Sorry, I’m married”,
      “I have kids”,
      “I just got out of a really bad relationship, not looking for anything serious” etc

      I have had to say “Look mate, I’m a lesbian” on many occasions to get rid of men, which also puts me at the same risk of being punched in the face as trans people.
      I’ve had men then turn around and say “That’s cool. I’ll watch” and my absolute favourite: “You won’t be a lesbian after you’ve had me!”.
      It is NOT more dangerous for trans people.

      The author of the article then posits:

      “Well, what if they know I’m trans and are actually interested. Then I shouldn’t shoo them away”

      No, but you can drop hints. Being upfront stops heartache and resentment.

      Most males that know I’m a lesbian have adopted a “Don’t bother” approach to me. It stops me from being harassed and it stops them from “wasting time” trying to get me sexually interested in them.

      As for the “No-one will love me if I say I’m trans”, both sexes have trouble finding partners for various reasons. People who have children (from previous relationships) often have a lot of difficultly in that regard.

      Some people have horrible disfigurements and still find love.

      Stop trying to turn other peoples preferences into your own fucking pity party.

      • BadDyke Says:

        “Why do MtT not seek out bisexual women? Why does it HAVE to be lesbians? Lesbians and gays seek out and have sex with bisexuals too. Most of the women I sleep with are bisexual…”

        Apart from noting that none of the lesbians I’ve known over the years sleep with bisexual women………….(Yeah, I know, whole can of worms but then we don’t come here to avoid important issues!).

        It OBVIOUSLY has to be lesbians because only then do they get that affirmation they so desire that they have been accepted AS a woman. Bisexual woman/man – nil points. Gay man – negative points. Straight man – points but too dangerous! Hence why lesbians are the target of choice.

        Because it’s NOT about sex or relationships for the usual reasons, it’s the lover or partner as a trophy sex-object — I MUST be a proper laydee cos I’ve holding hands with a lesbian! It’s not about sex, it’s about affirming their identity.

        (Whilst I’m on the issue, personally the issue with bisexual women is NOT some sort of not enough points there thing, but because I really can feel very little connection or empathy with any women who could fancy a man. Plus, HOW having known what connecting with a woman is like, how could ANYONE be so dim as to continue sleeping with men! May be totally non-PC when it comes to the whole LGBTRGBQWERTY crowd, but hey, I don’t give a damn! That is part of what landed us in this MESS in the first place!).

    • a cat Says:

      This is often a difficult one and I don’t know all the answers but I do know lesbians don’t fancy penises and straight men don’t fancy them either. “Love me for me” is important but I’d sort of expect to know what genitals I was getting as a result of the loving, rather than having them, er, sprung on me…

      • morag99 Says:

        ” … but I’d sort of expect to know what genitals I was getting as a result of the loving, rather than having them, er, sprung on me…”

        “Sprung”–snort. Like a snake-in-can practical joke. Yeah, that’s something you’d want to be prepared for.

  29. 1899fcbarcelona Says:

    Oh yeah because every female I know likes to do this. I do this all the time (this is sarcasm).


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: