Arizona Elementary School blockades all urinals in boy’s bathrooms after multiple incidents involving female “transgender” children

March 28, 2014

urinals1

Tucson Unified School District officials held a meeting for parents Wednesday – closed to media cameras and recorders- in response to ongoing issues surrounding elementary school restroom use by children classified as transgender, KOLD Tucson News Now reports.

Anna Henry Elementary in Tucson has blocked off all urinals in boys restrooms for the time being, following multiple incidents of girls who identify as male reportedly squatting over the urinals to void, pulling down their underwear in front of boys, and causing privacy issues with boys who were upset by girls watching them urinate. Closing the urinals to all students of both sexes has been the district’s immediate solution until privacy partitions are installed between all the urinals so that the girls can continue to use them in expression of their personal identification with male reproductive biology.

 

From KOLD :

“Susan Wright said her 10-year old son was using the urinal when a student he identified as a female walked in on him.  Concerned parent Danya Ayers said she knew of another incident where a boy was very uncomfortable after a child he knew as a girl removed her underpants in front of him.

“My son won’t even let me go in the bathroom with him, he won’t let a female teacher go in with him, this did not make him comfortable,” said Wright.

TUSD officials held a meeting at Anna Henry Elementary to discuss transgender student issues.  The district spent over $1,000 to hire national experts to discuss what being a transgender meant.  The experts would also train staff members and act as consultants.”

 

Parents of the transgender children said that boys who did not want to share urinals with girls should use “alternative bathrooms”. From KVOA: “One parent said “If your child is not comfortable using the bathroom, ask them to use the alternative bathroom.”

Anna Henry Elementary has roughly 400 students. Between one to two percent are officially classified as “transgender’ according to a KVOA report.

Several parents quoted in the news reports make clear that they are not at all bigoted or “anti-LGBT”. Comments on the news articles from parents and family of students (see screen-caps below) seem to indicate the main upset is caused by girls actually squatting over the now closed urinals to void in full view of the boys.

tuscon urinal elementary school

tuscon urinal elementary school 2

tuscon urinal elementary school3

 

The “National expert” hired by the district is paid speaker Kim Pearson of the fringe group Trans Youth Family Allies (TYFA), which she co-founded with male transsexual Jen Burleton, who was ejected from the org after the suicide of TYFA teen Ian Benson. Pearson has been charged with falsifying data on gender-nonconforming children. TYFA is funded by adult crossdressers and transgenders who support Pearson’s philosophy that gender nonconforming children should be used to “take the sex out” of the public face of the transgender movement. TYFA president Andrea James famously posted pictures of sexologist Michael Bailey’s elementary school aged daughter with captions calling the child a “cocksucker”.

Carol Grimsby, executive director of Arizona’s Wingspan LGBT  also made an appearance, although a radio interview following up the meeting gave the impression that she was confused and ill-equipped to answer parent’s concerns on either side of the issue.

KVOA reports that “Many parents left the meeting feeling uneasy and unsatisfied with TUSD’s response to the issue.  School officials said they were still discussing how they would handle matters for the district as a whole.”

 

108 Responses to “Arizona Elementary School blockades all urinals in boy’s bathrooms after multiple incidents involving female “transgender” children”


  1. Cue Cristan Williams’ article that it’s all a hoax in 3…2…1

    I wonder if the fact that it happens to boys will matter.

    Why the fuck would a female child need to use a urinal?

    What the fuck? There ARE STALLS. As that one woman said “What happens when they get to middle school?”

    It’s going to be a fucking disaster.

    Also, thanks for the link back to the study on suicides.

    I am so sick of seeing the 47% statistic.
    It was a self reported study of how many participants?

    These trans-children groups are terrifying.

    I thought that we were done with human experimentation.

    • GallusMag Says:

      I guess it could be a hoax, but cordoning off all urinals in all bathrooms seems to indicate an actual issue. Also, the family members seem super pro-LGBT, and not at all right-wing in any way…


      • Oh, I know. I was being facetious.

        Anything trans critical that involves any member of the public is a hoax according to Cristan.

        Colleen Francis?

        “That GIRL shouldn’t have been in the FEMALE sauna ”

        YMCA incident?

        “Right wing conspiracy”

        Men sexually attack women in restrooms?

        “Women assault women in restrooms”

        Link deliberately broken:

        cristanwilliamsDOTCOM/b/2011/08/07/transgender-people-should-be-barred-from-restrooms/

        Anything trans critical by males and there’s silence.

        Anything trans critical by females AND HOLY SHIT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH AND MISERY OF EVERY SINGLE TRANS ON THE PLANET.

    • lolliguncula Says:

      Why the fuck would a female child need to use a urinal?

      As GM has already hinted at it’s because using the stall is for girls. “Real” boys stand up and pee, “real” girls squat. Of course, these girls still had to squat but, hey, at least they pissed into a URINAL. FOR BOYS. Idk, even that young they need artefacts of gender to tell them who they are.

      The boys, of course, know that these girls are not dudes and when puberty hits the consequences will be severe. The boys won’t recognize them as their peers and the trans children will be excluded from a lot of SEX-based initiation rituals. Their identity literally won’t mean shit when the boys decide to compare their dicks. Bullying could become severe when they start objectifying girls, especially since their bodies will be stronger and bigger. Having a weird girl looking at their junk because she has “penis envy” (!!!) probably won’t help.

    • morag99 Says:

      “I wonder if the fact that it happens to boys will matter.”

      Yeah, I wonder about that, too. I hope that it will make a difference in public perceptions, but I hate that it would make a difference because boys’ feelings matter more than the feelings of girls and women.

      This trouble with girls-in-the-boys-room does demonstrate, however, that the issue is not only about safety. These girls aren’t a physical threat, yet these young boys are naturally upset. They expect privacy while using the toilet, to not see or be seen (or heard) by the opposite sex–not even by their own mothers. This kind of modesty is psychologically NORMAL in our culture. I can’t think of a culture where this wouldn’t be normal. To treat this developmentally- and culturally-appropriate modesty as something to be suppressed or overcome is a perversion.

      • kesher Says:

        There are plenty of cultures where nudity of prepubescent children is no big deal. Those children aren’t sexualized in any way, so, if a child wants to go swimming and doesn’t have a bathing suit, just let the child go swimming naked. I’ve seen this in many parts of Europe and even conservative, predominately Muslim parts of Africa. Freaking out about nudity of children is far more common in the U.S.; I think it’s a combination of our puritanical background and our insistence on sexualizing children (especially girls) in the media.

        That said, this is the culture we *have*, and I’m a big believer in operating in the culture/world that actually exists and not trying to break down barriers by freaking out completely innocent 10-year-olds.

    • Choco Says:

      It’s worded in such a way that makes it seem like the girls decided all on their own to use the urinals. As if no parents are involved and the girls are the aggressors-just like “real boys.” But boys like Coy are shown being guided by their parents, because little girls need to be chaperoned and certainly don’t do things on their own. Just like marginalised girls are “women” even at the age of 10, so these girls are like “men.”

  2. Ashland Avenue Says:

    This is absolutely crazy, and as a lesbian, I’m sick of being dragged along for the trannies’ ride in the public’s eye. And how the hell does a girl use a urinal, anyway?!

    • Teal Deer Says:

      I’m guessing they’re probably the kid-friendly type that are either really low to the ground, or go all the way to the floor. But still, I find it bizarre, to say the least, that a girl would insist on using one, even if she did believe (or was told) she was a boy.

      • shediogenes Says:

        no concern from the parents that their trans kids are backing their bare asses up to porcelein thats been pissed on by males, both kid and possibly adult, or do these parents put their female children thru practice lessons on how to pee facing the urinal without pissing down their leg?


  3. They should be happy those “girls who identify as male” were able to hit the urinals.. most boys I knew growing up couldn’t. Maybe they can give the boys some lessons.

    • Teal Deer Says:

      I’m assuming they’re squatting over them, and probably getting quite a bit of pee on themselves and their clothing in the process, what with the lack of toilet paper at urinals and kids not generally being very careful in the bathroom.

    • helen purves Says:

      agree x 1000!

  4. survivorthriver Says:

    I listened to this Carol Grimsby interview.

    She calls this grade school “cutting edge”….

    Cutting edge hogwash.

    The interviewer was successful in making this point:

    “Transgender activists don’t include feelings of non-transgenders….who have to conform and have to do what the trans wants them to do….”

    It is so obvious that adults are creating transgender children issues.

    Why in the hell can crossdressers and transvestites be asked to educate our school districts with their version of sex ed?

    Will this insane and illogical coercion be halted?

    • shediogenes Says:

      in the meantime an 8 yr old girl was asked not to return to her christian school for not being feminine enough (Sonni Kahle) and another girl has been kicked out of school for shaving her head in support of a friend with cancer (Kamryn Renfroe), but this is an important topic for this school to address? Livid

  5. morag99 Says:

    “Closing the urinals to all students of both sexes has been the district’s immediate solution until privacy partitions are installed between all the urinals so that the girls can continue to use them in expression of their personal identification with male reproductive biology.”

    I love this sentence. For the way it carefully and politely acknowledges subjective identity while correctly identifying girls AS girls. I also like how it exposes the absurdity of young girls’ “personal identification with male reproductive biology” (!) without directly calling it absurd.

    Honest reporters and journalists have to walk on a tightrope, balancing political correctness (which is still, despite the abuses, generally a good thing) with plain truth-telling. They have such an important role to play in defending the public from the intellectual dishonesty of trans-activists.

    • Donkey Skin Says:

      They aren’t playing that role at all, though. The media has uncritically embraced genderist ideology and forces it upon the public to an obscene degree, even referring to men who rape and murder women by female pronouns and pretending that ‘women’ now commit misogynist hate crimes.

      • morag99 Says:

        Oh, I know, Donkey Skin. When the media call killers like Perry a “she,” I believe they are supporting a murderer and spitting on the graves of his female victims. It’s unethical.

        That’s why I think individual reporters and journalists have an important role to play–to counter, in whatever way they can manage–this tendency of the media to embrace and to force genderist ideology on the public. And that’s why I’m glad this article speaks in terms of biological sex, and, at least, refers to female children as “girls.”

      • GallusMag Says:

        @morag99- Yes I try to use accurate terms here, thanks.

      • morag99 Says:

        Oops, I think I’ve done something silly. I think I was quoting Gallus when I thought I was quoting the Tucson News report.

        (Gallus–you, of course, always use accurate terms.)

        Ha!–I’m tired today and shouldn’t be posting.

      • Donkey Skin Says:

        One of the difficulties with relying on individual journalists to report trans issues truthfully, by referring to the biological sex of their subjects, is that most media outlets have adopted guidelines for covering these issues based on lobbying from trans activists. Journos will be expected to conform to these guidelines and even if they don’t, the story will be ‘corrected’ at the copy editing stage. It’s all so ghastly and Orwellian, and like all Orwellian systems of language has the sole purpose of making it impossible to speak or even think about reality.

      • Donkey Skin Says:

        I should add: the insistence on adhering to truthful language is one of the things that makes Gallus’s work so valuable. Even many gender-critical feminists will defer to preferred pronouns, if only because they say it makes conversations go more ‘smoothly’.

        However, I have come to realise that is a subtle form of gas lighting that actually impedes clear feminist thought around these issues. I didn’t realise how psychically exhausting it was being gender-critical while deferring to genderist language principles until I had been reading this site for a while. Just the sheer relief of seeing someone name what was actually happening, as in this IS a man, this is MEN doing and saying these things, made me fully understand that this is all a continuation and intensification of patriarchy, nothing more and nothing less. It brought everything into sharp focus and was incredibly freeing to my critical faculties, whereas before I was much more inclined to be conciliatory and say things like, ‘Trans women are oppressed by gender too’.

      • morag99 Says:

        “It’s all so ghastly and Orwellian, and like all Orwellian systems of language has the sole purpose of making it impossible to speak or even think about reality.”

        You said it, Donkey Skin. And, in the wider public arena, they’ve been very successful in badly damaging language. They have obscured, conflated, and even spiritualized the terms of discussion (e.g., sex and gender) to the point that many, many people are rendered intellectually defenceless. It is easier to just agree with their nonsense. And agreeing with nonsense feels good, too: “I’m no bigot; I’m a good person.”

        Trans politics is an anti-intellectual politics. The very foundation of trans-activism is the intellectual abuse, and the emotional blackmail, of others.


  6. Of course the boys should use the alternative restroom. Just like trans activists want patients to use other rooms in hospitals if the transgender patient feels unconfortable with sharing a hospital room.
    It’s all about them, them them.

    • shediogenes Says:

      boys and girls not comfortable with using bathrooms alongside trans should use alternative bathrooms, and with so many boys and girls using alt bathrooms, they’ll need larger facilities to accomodate them, just build more alt facilities for XY and XX, reserved for bio sexed self identifying as their sex. There, solved, pomo-style. That way, 2% of the students can have a dozen stalls to themselves. Can’t afford, just cut the book budget, reduce teacher pay, pensions, whatevs. Gggrrreat idea.

      • michelle Says:

        It would be interesting to watch all of the so-called ‘public support’ for this nonsense to vanish the moment a District put a bond initiative on a ballot in order to approve the sale of bonds to fund construction of additional facilities.

        These fringe groups just seem to believe funds just magically exist to address their delusions and their mandate that everyone live in magical unicorn land with them.

      • kesher Says:

        Clearly 200 or so boys at the school should be forced to change their behavior to accommodate 2-4 girls* who identify as boys.

        *While I usually gender label according to an individual’s preference, largely out of politeness, I have a really hard time embracing a trans identity for someone under the age of 18. These are children; they are legally incapable of knowing what they want.

  7. A Says:

    I’ve been reading this blog for a while and I think it’s great. I’m a white cis hetero male (therefore not sure if I’m allowed to speak). I’m all for people being themselves and I’m down for rethinking gender in society, but there is no dialogue going on at all. It’s either tote the LGBTQ party line or face vicious scorn from the social justice community. I would post Gender Trender on my facebook but I’m afraid my picture will go viral as a bigoted transphobe.

    In any case does anyone have any estimates on how many trans people exist in American society? what % of them are MtF?

    I ask because depending on that number, there are realistic limits on the accommodations we can make for very small groups. Forcing hundreds of millions of people to adjust for a few thousand people is just insanity.

    I give props to GM and the radfems for speaking out on this issue because I am not allowed to as a white cis man. And I firmly believe that the greater good is served by not allowing anyone with a penis in a woman’s restroom. and this business of telling boys to use the alternative restroom cuz transboys are looking at their peepees? give me a break

    • Sula Says:

      You beat me to it: I was about to ask the same question about the percentage of trans kids in US schools. The article puts it at about 1 or 2% in a school of 400 which seems a lot higher than average. I’m in the UK but I’m really concerned about the growth of acceptance of trans ideology in pre-pubescent children, especially when allied with hormones and surgery. What the US does today the UK does tomorrow. I always think that if a phenomenon is growing in some way then it pays to look for whether someone is making money out of it somehow. I guess doctors must be and the trans lobby are also gaining acceptance from kids being involved. Have there been any studies done on trauma or homophobia in the kids’ backgrounds? This conformity to trans culture seems like child abuse.

      • GallusMag Says:

        There was a survey of high schoolers in California this year- 1.5% of students identified themselves as transgender.

        http://badgerherald.com/news/2014/01/30/dane-county-survey-provides-insight-transgender-youth/#.UzYDmhwyyPQ

      • a cat Says:

        I’m in the UK as well and I am utterly horrified by this shit.

        I think in the future every gender non conforming child will be “transgender” whether they reckon they are or not. I could never be arsed with conventional femininity and I have a relative who’s the same way. Recently in discussions with people I’ve been asked (by people I’ve always thought previously were nice and not huge weirdoes) if me and my relative aren’t, perhaps, well you have to consider it amirite, actually transgender.

        NO. WHAT THE LIVING FUCK. We’re both female. When I was growing up I was called a tomboy and when I grew up, I realised (slowly and with some difficulty and now with help from radfems) it’s sort of like not performing gender with me, I don’t want to have to dress as what society regards as a woman in order to be a woman. I am a woman. I don’t need to dress up to be what I am.

        I hate the thought that if I was a kid nowadays I could be sent down the horrible pathway of hormone treatments and being told I was secretly a man and needed all kinds of drugs because I was male otherwise I’d love pink princessy things – that’s what normal little girls love, and if you aren’t a normal little girl, you’re a boy.

        When I was 5 I wanted to be a boy, but I wasn’t one, not then and not now. I’m a female person, born as a female and it doesn’t matter if my hair’s in a no. 1 cut and I’m wearing “men’s clothes” I am still female, albeit possibly badly dressed🙂 That is why I am scared. I imagine a future “a cat” being told “Oh, it all makes perfect sense now! You’re really a boy!” and being encouraged to piss in urinals (because that’s not mental or anything) and attending a school where 2% of the students are transgender. TWO FUCKING PERCENT. How did that happen?

        We are getting locked into rigid and frankly bizarre notions of gender, where girls are little princesses and boys are tough and manly, and that is because of their internal nature. If you cross the boundaries you’re actually one of the other sex, and we have pills for that.

      • Adrian Says:

        @a cat – EXACTLY my feelings too, as someone else who just never “did the femmy thing.” Whatever I am, however I think, that helps define what the boundaries of “women’s behavior” are, because I am a woman – told so by others.

        Even with a buzz cut and jeans, yep!🙂

      • a cat Says:

        Adrian – you sound excellent and I would love my relative to meet you🙂 She’s younger than me and I am trying to model “being a girl and being a woman is whatever you want to be”. I’m not fantastic at that always but I try.

        Having met radfems off and online I have huge respect for them. I didn’t use to have that, which was stupid of me. Actually meeting and talking to them I realise how much we have in common – before everyone warned me “stay away from the radfems”. I did and I missed a lot of sound analysis.

      • Cerulean blue Says:

        Exactly, Adrian!

        Seems like the trans have a big issue with causality– it’s not how a person acts or feels that make her a woman, but how a woman acts or feels that defines what a woman is. As in, any flipping thing I do is womanly, because I am a woman. And no amount of dress wearing, mincing, or pink loving will ever make a man a woman, because those things have never made women women.

      • kesher Says:

        That’s often why I’ve often felt sympathetic to TERF since it seems like the “logical” conclusion to trans-activism is that anyone who doesn’t adhere to gender stereotypes well enough will just be shuffled over to the other side, as though butch women and feminine men will no longer be allowed to exist.

        I doubt that will, in fact, happen, but I suspect a number of people will try or at least be very offensive toward people who don’t toe the gender line.

    • jo Says:

      I find this pic relevant to your comment Cerulean😀
      Dude is angry because he isn’t “passing”: http://i61.tinypic.com/2af787.jpg
      Makeup, dresses and mincing isn’t what makes us female. Obviously! But it seems to be the only thing these fetishistic MTF’s care about. They can have that, just don’t call yourself women while doing it. Although if it wasn’t linked to women anymore it would loose it’s attraction, wouldn’t it?

  8. morag99 Says:

    “I give props to GM and the radfems for speaking out on this issue because I am not allowed to as a white cis man.”

    Yes, you are allowed to speak. And they are allowed to call you a bigot. But, you can still speak about what you know is wrong about trans politics.

  9. GallusMag Says:

    http://azstarnet.com/news/local/education/tusd-adds-transgendered-to-its-non-discrimination-policy/article_1d886b25-c6e3-5705-9e5f-44f28133cbdf.html

    TUSD adds transgendered to its non-discrimination policy
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    Respond: Write a letter to the editor | Write a guest opinion
    13 hours ago • By Alexis HuicocheaLoading…
    The Tucson Unified School District is revising its nondiscrimination policy to protect transgender students, staff members and others.

    The policy change, approved 4-1 by the TUSD Governing Board on Tuesday, was prompted by an incident at Henry Elementary School, 650 N. Igo Way. Parents there raised concerns about a transgender student using the boys’ restroom.

    In response, TUSD held a gender-identity workshop at the east-side school on Wednesday featuring a national expert on transgender issues. Partitions are also being built around urinals in the boys’ restroom to ensure the privacy of all students.

    While TUSD says that the policy revision makes a statement about nondiscrimination for all students, it acknowledged that the Henry incident prompted a review of the policy in place. The policy previously prohibited discrimination based on disability, race, color, religious beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, age or national origin. The revision added “gender identity or expression” to the list.

    Board member Mark Stegeman cast the dissenting vote, saying that while he supports equal treatment, he had questions that needed to be addressed before he could vote in favor of the policy change. The change gives TUSD the ability to craft a regulation that will “honor, respect and protect” transgender students, Superintendent H.T. Sanchez said.

    Board member Cam Juarez supported the measure, explaining he had recently shared the message of nondiscrimination with a group of kindergartners.

    “We talked about how people look different and how it’s not OK to make fun of them, and we talked about treating each other like human beings,” Juarez said. “Racism, all of the -isms, these kids are not born with it; they’re taught. I’ll support this because this is about not discriminating against anyone, period.”

    TUSD employees, students and members of the public on district property or on official district business are expected to abide by the policy.

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      Shit. Add “gender critical kindergartners” to the list of protected classes, and I’m down with it. Oh…wait, that’ll never be added.


  10. “Susan Wright said her 10-year old son was using the urinal when a student he identified as a female walked in on him. Concerned parent Danya Ayers said she knew of another incident where a boy was very uncomfortable after a child he knew as a girl removed her underpants in front of him.

    “My son won’t even let me go in the bathroom with him, he won’t let a female teacher go in with him, this did not make him comfortable,” said Wright.

    TUSD officials held a meeting at Anna Henry Elementary to discuss transgender student issues. The district spent over $1,000 to hire national experts to discuss what being a transgender meant. The experts would also train staff members and act as consultants.”

    The mother should sue the school district for the emotional suffering her son endured. There is no way of proving that one psychological diagnosis or belief (gender identity) is more important than her son’s emotional suffering.

    We are supposed to believe that a female student walking into a boy’s restroom while males are using the urinal is perfectly normal and appropriate. So, a male student is using a urinal, and a female student comes into the boy’s restroom. He is caught off guard and knows his male genitalia is showing. He is supposed to ignore the girl who just walked in. What father would teach his son to just whip out his penis and pee in front of girls? If he did this as an adult, it could sexual harassment.

    “Closing the urinals to all students of both sexes has been the district’s immediate solution until privacy partitions are installed between all the urinals so that the girls can continue to use them in expression of their personal identification with male reproductive biology.”

    Even though males have been using urinals for as long as anyone can remember, it’s time to close them down. I’m not male, but I think that some men would prefer urinals instead of a regular toilet because they just have to go in unzip, pull it out, and urinate. We need the input of men. Do males prefer a urinal? We are supposed to believe that a “privacy partition” between urinals is the answer. Instead of spending money to build “privacy partitions” which any student could peek around, tell female students to stay out of the boys’ restroom.

    Financially scrapped school districts have to start building “privacy partitions” that may or may not provide any actual privacy so that “students of both sexes” can use the urinals.

    “Closing the urinals to all students of both sexes…”

    I didn’t know that they built urinals for both sexes. Since when do females use urinals? I’m trying to envision a female using a urinal.

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      Female urinal: We have those already. They’re called “toilets.” Girls in boys bathrooms? Sure, ANYTHING to destroy feminism. ANYTHING.

    • survivorthriver Says:

      As a former ice-climber on glacier with all-male colleagues, I sewed a zipper into the crotch of my climbing pants, and could stand up (glaciers are exposed, no trees to hide behind) and pull up my labia to aim the pee stream out in front of me away from the group’s view without squatting and baring my butt or having to face the group while doing my business squatting.

      • branjor Says:

        Yes, I’ve done that too and have seen other females do it. Girls can pee standing into a “male” urinal as well as boys can, they just don’t get taught it and boys do. I was thinking of mentioning it myself.

    • Kim Says:

      Obviously you’re missing the point …. These kids are boys. They just didn’t get the body parts that we have decided boys are supposed to have. There are many differences in people’s anatomy. Which bathroom should the boy or girl with ambiguous genitalia use? Which bathroom should the child use who is intersex? Which bathroom should the child use who’s lost their penis to a circumcision gone wrong? And who are you to try and make these kids and their families feel miserable because you are uncomfortable? Don’t you think they are dealing with enough already? How about a little empathy? How about teaching your kid that not everyone has the same kind of boy body and that’s okay? How about teaching your kid to understand the world is filled with diversity so that he can function at a higher level when he grows up?

      • GallusMag Says:

        Kim your child is not intersex. You are simply so stuck to the belief system of gender (and so homophobic) that you have taught your daughter that she has a birth defect. She does not. It is you who have a defect of understanding gender-nonconforming children.

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        LOL. Just LOL.


      • “These kids are boys. They just didn’t get the body parts that we have decided boys are supposed to have.”

        Complete bullshit. No one decided what genitals males should have. Sexual dimorphism isn’t a state of mind.

        “Which bathroom should the boy or girl with ambiguous genitalia use?”

        This isn’t about children with ambiguous genitalia! This is about females using a bathroom for males and the consequences. Just look how this person tries to ignore the real issue here.

        “How about a little empathy?”

        How about a little common sense??

        “How about teaching your kid that not everyone has the same kind of boy body and that’s okay?”

        That’s anti science bullshit.

        “How about teaching your kid to understand the world is filled with diversity”

        How about teaching your kid that there are disgusting people in this would who will happily try to correct childrens gender nonconforminity with dangerous drugs and surgery?


      • Dear Kim,

        Girls are not boys. I would think that a woman who has had sex and birthed young would understand mammalian reproduction.

        Intersex people often don’t have ‘ambiguous genitalia’. It’s usually phenotypically one way or the other. They often have ambiguous internal organs. (ovaries, testes etc).

        Furthermore, stop co-opting a movement about an actual verified medical problem to support your sick Eugenic ideal.

        No one ‘decided’ that males should have a penis.

        Are you for real? Did you go into science class at all?

        Someone who has lost a penis by accident is still a male.

        How disgusting of you to suggest that someone who has lost a penis is less of a boy/man!

        You’re not being diverse. Diversity doesn’t put people into boxes because of a hypothetical brain-genital alignment.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Aaaaaaand once again, we have someone trying to conflate intersex conditions with transsexualism. (And, bizarrely, with boys who’ve “lost their penis to a circumcision gone wrong” – because that happens so very often, you see.) Two totally different things, Kim, and we’re smart enough here to know that, unfortunately for you. Nice try.

        I’ll ask, who are YOU to make the other kids embarrassed and miserable because your kid is uncomfortable? Don’t you think little girls who are trying to navigate this violently sexist world, trying to learn to protect themselves, are dealing with enough already? How about a little empathy for them?

        We’re not “missing the point.” We simply see your “point” for the bullshit it is, and disagree with it.

      • lin Says:

        Kim, you’re so right: If parents feel miserable and uncomfortable because their little girl can’t squat over a urinal and take off her underpants in the boys room, they have MUCH bigger problems to deal with. Like untreated mental illness, for one.

        This is all just like one big clusterfuck of insanity. I can’t even believe that these people are allowed to walk around in the general population, much less procreate.

      • Motherhood Says:

        Oh good god. Brace yourself–Mommie Dearest. You are the problem–you. There is zero wrong with your child–not intersex, not botched. I hope your lessons of diversity includes forgiveness because you will begging your child for it. LIsten to yourself it is scary–what bathroom should a child use if they loose their penis to a botched circumcision–you’re scary.

      • LJ Says:

        This is just silly at best and actively harmful at worst, Kim. The point YOU are missing (and which everyone who argues from your position misses) is that it is PRECISELY a person’s body parts that determine their sex and not anything else really at all. If you take away a person’s sex characteristics as being the thing that determines their, er, sex, then all you have to fall back on when dividing the, erm, sexes, are harmful gender stereotypes. I don’t want those stereotypes to apply to me, thanks. Where did we get our idea of men and women? From the fact we are a sexually dimorphic species. Every time we move away from this fact and suggest there is a spectrum we find ourselves coming back round to the beginning again because sooner or later it becomes helpful to divide people by the genitals that they actually have. Biological reality does have relevance for example in sexual reproduction. Straight and gay people are known to actively exist. There are then differences between men and women.

        Bathrooms are separated by sex, not by who likes wearing make-up and feeling sparkly. “Man” and “male” and “woman” and “female” are not value judgments. They are facts. They are based on body parts. To base them on anything else is nonsensical. Let’s start again shall we. Some people have penises and some people have vaginas (a microscopic number of people are genuinely intersex). What shall we call these groups? We could just call them “male and female” and “men and women” but that would inevitably trigger legions. So let’s have one bathroom for those with penises and another for those with vaginas. Ok? That’s what we are really trying to achieve. If necessary I am happy to go to the bathroom with a picture of a vagina on it rather than an outline of an individual with long hair and a skirt.

    • Unperson Says:

      It’s just the latter-day version of ‘No WIRE hangers, Christopher/Christina!’, only this time it’s ‘No FIXED gender!’,’


  11. @survivorthriver

    That is a nifty trick, but I don’t know if the average ten or eleven year old kid would always pull it off in perfect fashion.

    The mother in the article said her son was using a urinal when a female student walked in on him. Boys in this situation expect privacy.

    • survivorthriver Says:

      Yea, I have thought that boys should be taught to toilet sitting down, like girls. Or, girls could be taught to pee pulling up the urethral fold and aiming for targets to get good….sorry, way off topic.

  12. Kim Says:

    What will you do as these children enter schools with birth certificates that have been corrected to reflect their true gender identity and new name? You’ll have no idea who is transgender because hormone blockers prevent biological puberty. It’s already happening in schools across the country. What are you going to do? A visual check on all students ?! Come on people … Crawl out from under your rock and take a look around you. The world is filled with diversity. No two people are exactly alike. Step outside your comfort zone. Get to know these kids and their families. You will likely be glad you did.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Kim is the co-founder of TransParent, an org dedicated to promoting the medicalization of gender conformity among children:

      About
      TransParent is a St. Louis based organization dedicated to advancing the perception of transgender and gender independent children through a growing parent support group, proactive outreach and education.
      Mission
      To advance the perception of transgender and gender independent children so that they can live authentically and experience the acceptance, understanding, medical care and equality they deserve by providing compassionate support and experienced resources to parents and caregivers, by actively pursuing opportunities that broaden and strengthen our communities knowledge and understanding and by seeking gender education opportunities in the medical, educational, political, religious and legal communities.

      “Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has.” – Margaret Mead

      Description
      Company Overview
      TransParent was formed in 2011 by Kim Hutton and Laurie Copeland, two mothers raising transgender children. Their inability to easily locate experienced resources and connect with other families was the catalyst for creating TransParent. Families are now able to receive compassionate support by others who share this journey as well as have access to a growing resource list of experienced professionals.
      General Information
      We offer a monthly support group meeting for parents and caregivers of transgender or gender independent children of any age.
      The location and day is changing for our support group meetings.
      Please contact us through our email for an update on where and when the meeting will be held.

      We provide presentations of our families journeys to educate the medical, educational, religious and legal communities.

      We organize our group
      participation at Lobby Day and Pride St. Louis.

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/TransParentSTL/442152539159226?id=442152539159226&sk=info

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      I feel sorry when some of them grow up, reject their parents, and have to struggle with the aftermath of their manipulated, distorted childhood – to fulfill fantasies of the parents. It’s terrible what’s coming down the pike.

    • GallusMag Says:

      @Kim- even if you have your child sterilized before the age of consent (as your organization recommends) I think folks will still realize she is female if she pulls down her underwear and crouches over urinals in men’s bathrooms. FYI.

    • GallusMag Says:

      @Kim- It’s interesting how both you and Laurie provide the length of your heterosexual couplings in your “credentials”:


      • @Kim is truly chilling. She is abusing her daughter in a thousand ways to keep tight her belief that the female of the human species is biologically inclined to wear dresses and like the color pink. I have my differences with my mom, but I am so so so so happy she did not abuse me and damage me beyond repair because I did not like dresses or the color pink and I played rough and tumble. I am gonna call her and thank her today.


      • BTW we had unisex bathrooms in kindergarten and elementary schools, but obviously no urinals.
        I never remember it being a problem- because boys at that age are rarely indoctrinated enough to be a threat- at least in progressive upper-middle class schools like the ones I attended.
        What I cannot get over is the fact that
        A) you are willing to cause serious health issues to your child because of your beliefs- I mean do you condone female genital mutilation in Africa??
        B) you don’t care that your perfectly healthy child (she is not dying, all her organs work as they should), is going to learn there is something wrong with her for being her. I understand seeing your child bullied may be painful, and I understand that may happen especially in more conservative environments, but why not fight against bullying instead of telling your daughter she was born wrong and CAUSE HER health issues?
        C) don’t you care about the fact you are teaching her dogma instead of science? I mean sexual dimorphism in mammals is biology 101. What else are you gonna tell her: that the earth was created in 7 days by a dude in the sky a few thousand years ago? Don’t expect her to be successful or to reach her full potential.
        @Kim – it is NEVER too late to pull back from a bad parental decision and help your child being her best natural self.

    • Donkey Skin Says:

      Oh my god. Kim is actually boasting about the fact that sex-role non-conforming children are being targeted en masse for sterilisation and having their brain and bone development arrested. It seems the trans movement is a haven for sociopaths of all types, not just trans ones.


    • Dear Kim,

      You should be ashamed of yourself.

      You advocate for the sterilization of children because they don’t fit in with a social phenomenon (gender).

      As can be witnessed on this blog, the effects of hormone blockers are incredibly dangerous with NO DATA about their effects on children.

      You need to crawl out of your homophobic rock Kim.

      You are a lobotomisist of the current era.

      You need to take a long hard look at yourself and the absolute evil sickness that you have helped perpetuate.

      How do you feel about homosexuals Kim? What are your thoughts on that?

      • Siobhan Says:

        Kim’s other pages identify her as a Republican and a “Christian.” I suspect that for many like Kim, it is easier to believe that your beautiful daughter has a birth defect than to acknowledge that she does not conform to “biblical womanhood” and might actually turn out to be a lesbian.

      • jo Says:

        This is so scary.
        Regarding the homophobia – I wonder what will happen if their female “transchild” turns out to be straight/bi?
        To prevent having a gay son, will they immediately be like “ok honey stop being trans now”?


      • @ Jo.

        “This is so scary.
        Regarding the homophobia – I wonder what will happen if their female “transchild” turns out to be straight/bi?
        To prevent having a gay son, will they immediately be like “ok honey stop being trans now”?”

        EXCELLENT POINT!

        We all know from stuff on here, the links to the de transition blogs and from Dirt’s blog that testosterone has an effect on sexuality. That many FtT (who were primarily sexually attracted to females) now found themselves watching pornography and became attracted to males.

        What happens if their lovely ‘boys’ start dating other men?
        Or other FtT? What then?

        FtT dates a man: homosexual relationship according to them, actually a heterosexual relationship known to people with sense.

        FtT dates a woman: straight relationship to them, actually a homosexual relationship known to people with sense.

        FtT dates a FtT, homosexual relationship according to both groups

        FtT dates a MtT: heterosexual relationship according to both groups.

        So they’ve got to date a lesbian in denial or an enlightened funfem.

        Or one of our lovely MtT’s.

        And we all know what the MtT’s who don’t want penis are like.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Anything better than a Lesbian, I should think…

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      So according to Kim, I live under a rock because I think that boys and girls (and men and women) deserve privacy when using a restroom or locker room. That a ten-year-old boy using a urinal shouldn’t have to worry about one of his female classmates walking in on him. That a 14-year-old girl shouldn’t have to feel embarrassed and awkward in a bathroom stall when she goes to change a tampon, and there’s a male classmate in the next stall. (YES I realize that they’re in stalls and some privacy is afforded because of that. But ever try to unwrap a tampon quietly? Good luck with that. Plus, it’s creepy and a violation of the girl’s dignity – a violation made all the worse because it comes at a time in our lives when many of us are especially self-conscious. But you don’t care about that, do you, Kim?)

      Something else: like millions – no, billions – of other women, I have been sexually abused in childhood. By more than one man in my life, I might add. The abuse was sneaky, it was coercive, and it was cloaked in the kind of slimy rhetoric I often see coming out of trans peoples’ mouths. So my guard is up, to say the least. And it’ll stay up. Because I know to what lengths men will go in order to get what they want. But besides that, like many of those billions of other women, I would definitely feel traumatized if I were changing at my gym and someone with a penis was suddenly naked next to me. I’m comfortable saying that the number of sexually abused women far, far outnumbers the number of trans people. But you don’t care about that, do you, Kim? Only your needs count, right?

      One other thing: I’m a lesbian. So I’m a minority. And guess what? I’m fine with that. The majority of folks are (mainly) heterosexual. So most cultural representations – in movies, art, television, plays, novels, you name it – show heterosexual relationships. I don’t expect the world to kowtow to me, and suddenly start showing nothing but things with lesbian themes. Instead, I do the work: I actively look for things that I can relate to. I don’t march into a mainstream theater and scream about the fact that they don’t show enough lesbian movies. In other words, I bend a little. I recognize that most people are not like me (or rather, that I am not like most people). When I see trans people refusing to use even a private or unisex bathroom or locker room that’s been offered for their use, instead stomping their feet and demanding to use the room of their choice (the effects on others be damned), I just see entitlement and selfishness. And that certainly doesn’t put me on your side.

      Lastly, I’ve yet to see a trans person answer this: many trans people – particularly MtT – say that it’s “too dangerous” for them to use a men’s restroom or locker room. That once the other men in the room realize that they’re a male wearing female clothing, the men will probably get violent – so this is why MtT should be allowed to use women’s facilities. If men are that dangerous, then why are we women expected to put up with them in what should be private spaces? Especially considering so many of us have bad, bad experiences with men violating our bodies and our space? When there is news report after news report of cameras found in women’s bathrooms, of men taking “upskirt” shots, of men sexually harassing women? When a MtT who thinks he “passes” but who actually looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger in drag walks into a women’s restroom, are we women supposed to somehow use our special ESP powers to discern that, oh, this isn’t some perv here who’s up to no good, he’s a woman ’cause he says so and so he’s totally cool! You do realize, Kim, that your mission to destroy women’s and men’s private facilities exposes women (especially women) to even more danger than we already face? But you don’t care about that, do you, Kim?

      Your sneering glee will be your undoing.


      • @ Ashland

        I love your comment so much.

        Women are constantly degraded by men for having periods and trans HATE that we have them because they are jealous.

        What if a MtT gets triggered hearing a tampon get unwrapped?
        Never mind that young women feel embarrassed about their periods because of the onslaught of “it’s gross” and “don’t trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn’t die”.

        (Side note: actually screen capped a tweet from Voz saying that last bit. What a sick fuck)

        Re : Bathroom

        It never gets brought up by trans that the only reason we catch dudes in panties/dresses/wigs going into the ladies to jerk off and plant cameras is because we KNOW that MEN shouldn’t be in the WOMEN’S bathroom.

        Seriously, how the fuck are we supposed to say “That dude shouldn’t be in here” if they’re all allowed in? We are no longer allowed to question it AT ALL.

        It doesn’t make any sense.

        But fuck us right, lowly cis females.

      • hearthrising Says:

        Great comment Ashland! Thank you to everyone who has spoken out on child abuse hypocritically disguised as “diversity.” @Kim, get a clue. Many of the people taking you to task on this are lesbians. They know what diversity means.

    • born free & female Says:

      “You’ll have no idea who is transgender because hormone blockers prevent biological puberty.”

      That’s the fantasy, isn’t it? Look how many crossdressers who transitioned late are obsessed with the idea that if they’d transitioned as kids, they’d be pretty princesses right now.

      “The world is filled with diversity”, but people have a “true gender identity” (and it’s either male or female). Mm-hmm.

    • lin Says:

      The truth is going to be pretty obvious to everyone the first time the new girl puts on a jock strap or the new boy gets his first period and bleeds through his pants.

    • Cerulean blue Says:

      I hope Kim is saving her pennies and dollars so that when her grown daughter sues her for child abuse the daughter is awarded enough money to reverse at least some of the damage her selfish, deluded and cowardly parents have caused. No sane person would consider removing a child’s legs because they thought her feet weren’t going to grow in the way they hoped, and there’s a very good reason why foot binding and female genital mutilation are seen as barbaric practices. There is an expectation that humans not destroy body functions, whether we are talking about the capacity to walk or the capacity to reproduce. I hope Kim’s daughter realizes before her parents die that no parent has the right to make such a decision even if they think claim they understand their child’s feelings, and I hope she is strong enough to take action. We have age of consent laws for a reason. Kids are biologically unable to give consent because they can’t understand the consequences of their actions. Parents don’t get to blind or maim them ever, whether they are aware they are acting on their own perverted fantasies or not.

    • plasticgirl Says:

      Kim, to get a birth certificate altered from male to female requires a court order declaring a sex change. The court requires proof of sex reassignment surgery usually in the form of an affidavit from a treating doctor. With the signed and sealed court-ordered sex change in hand, you apply to your home state to reissue a new birth certificate reflecting your new name and sex. For children to come to school with corrected birth certificates would require all fifty states to amend their policies to no longer require proof of an anatomical sex change. Do you think that is going to happen in your lifetime?

      You seem to espouse what is clearly medical experimentation on children with unstudied and unregulated drugs. It is very obvious to people whose bodies have been ruined from treatment, that hormone regulation is not the only effect going on in your body when taking GnRH agonists. GnRH agonists have not been expertly designed for use in transgender children, they are indicated for adult cancer patients.

      Children are not capable of reasoned and informed consent, which is why children are not allowed to refuse medical treatment, nor make medical decisions, nor request medical procedures for themselves. You seem totally okay with coercing a healthy child who can not possibly come to a well-informed, well-reasoned risk-reward decision, to accept a myriad of negative long effects which can permanently reduce their quality of life and increase their dependence on medical care.

      I for one, would have loved to have been treated with puberty blockers as a teen, but only if those drugs had been tried, tested and perfected for that purpose. Drugs that did -nothing else to me- but stop puberty. If you were my parent, I would report you to a social worker for child abuse for risking my body and future health by making me take GnRH agonists.

      No transsexual child should be on that crap.


      • ” It is very obvious to people whose bodies have been ruined from treatment, that hormone regulation is not the only effect going on in your body when taking GnRH agonists.”

        So true! If you look at the list of side effects and read about the suffering of the people who took these drugs – every one with common sense understand that these drugs are a nightmare.

        And NO its not just people who took these drugs as adults but also people who had to take the drugs because of precious puberty. Years later they STILL have to deal with the nightmarish consequences which can include:

        memory loss, depression, blurred vision and so on. It’s insane to give these drugs to children.

    • morag99 Says:

      Everything I want to say to Kim has already been said, and said well by others. I only want to express my sincere hope that, one day, Kim will have to answer for her crimes against children.

    • shediogenes Says:

      the world is filled with diversity, and in celebration of that diversity, should you find you have a daughter who isn’t sugar and spice and everything nice, well, just stuff drugs down her throat, risk her health and sterilize her. way to go stepping out of your comfort zone

    • kesher Says:

      I have a really hard time with permitting a developing child to fully transition to another gender. If there are doctors/psychiatrists who are doing this for/on anyone under the age of 18, they ought to lose their licenses. You can’t get a tattoo if you’re under the age of 18!

  13. Unperson Says:

    I’d be guessing the real goal here is the usual pedo one – to push the age of consent down, because the kids want it blah blah blah.


  14. “You’ll have no idea who is transgender because hormone blockers prevent biological puberty.”

    This individual has no idea how future historians will view the deliberate sterilization of healthy children, nor does this individual know the long term effects of GNRH agonists on developing adolescent bodies.

    As I understand it, the use of GnRH agonists for deliberately delaying puberty in healthy children is an off label use for this class of drugs. I don’t even know if it’s approved by the FDA for this purpose. Please keep in mind that this is the same class of drugs that they give to patients with advanced prostate cancer and to women with endometriosis. GnRH agonists are also prescribed for precocious puberty which is NOT the same thing as a questionably psychological diagnosis in children.

    The sterilization of healthy children is generally viewed as a human rights abuse. Future fertility is an issue with GnRH agonists, especially if the GnRH agonists are followed by cross gender hormones.

    “Treatment with puberty delaying drugs leads to sterilization if it is followed with the administration of cross sex hormones at 16 years, as the Brill and Pepper handbook on “transgender” children (2008), explains, “the choice to progress from GnRH inhibitors to estrogen without fully experiencing male puberty should be viewed as giving up one’s fertility, and the family and child should be counseled accordingly” (Brill & Pepper, 2008, p. 216). For girls, sterilization is the outcome too, because “eggs do not mature until the body goes through puberty” (Brill & Pepper, 2008, p. 216).

    Deliberate delaying a normal part of human development, adolescence, because of what basically amounts to a questionable psychiatric diagnosis in healthy children assumes all the following:

    (a.) The diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” is correct to being with, and there isn’t something else going on in the child’s life.

    (b.) The child is completely free from any parental, peer, or cultural influences. How much is “gender dysphoria” in a 12 year old child, and how do we separate this from everything the parents read on transgender websites and blogs? How much is actual “gender dysphoria” or GID and how much is parental discomfort at having a child that doesn’t fit neatly into sex based gender roles?

    (c.) Children have the mental capacity to decide or choose for themselves.

    It’s a scientific fact that the pre-frontal cortex of the human brain which is sometimes called the judgment center of the brain isn’t fully developed until the early to mid-twenties.

    ”The prefrontal cortex, the part of the frontal lobes lying just behind the forehead, is often referred to as the “CEO of the brain.” This brain region is responsible for cognitive analysis and abstract thought, and the moderation of “correct” behavior in social situations. The prefrontal cortex takes in information from all of the senses and orchestrates thoughts and actions to achieve specific goals.1,2 This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations. Brain research indicating that brain development is not complete until near the age of 25, refers specifically to the development of the prefrontal cortex”

    http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familylife/tech_assistance/etraining/adolescent_brain/Development/prefrontal_cortex

    These children might feel different because adolescence is a tumultuous time for all children, but this doesn’t mean that they have the maturity or judgment to make informed decisions.

    • Siobhan Says:

      Also, that maturation of the brain doesn’t happen in a vacuum — the changes in the brain during puberty are dramatic. The pruning of neurons and the strengthening of certain pathways happen as a direct result of biological puberty. It isn’t just a question of waiting a few years — biological puberty is a necessary part of brain development. If you stop puberty, you prevent these judgement centers from forming and the child will never develop normal adult thinking patterns. This is catastrophic.


  15. I would like to follow up on Kim Hutton. How does a child “socially transition at age seven”? At this age, experts have no way of predicting with absolute certainty how the child will feel when she is twenty years of age, or how she will feel when she turns thirty.

    “The outcome of childhood GID without treatment is that only a minority will identify as transsexual or transgender in adulthood (a phenomenon termed persistence), while the majority will become comfortable with their natal gender over time (a phenomenon termed desistence) (3-6). GID that persists into adolescence is more likely to persist into adulthood (2). Compared to the general population, the rate of homosexual orientation is increased in adulthood whether or not GID was treated (2, 4). It is currently not possible to differentiate between preadolescent children in whom GID will persist and those in whom it will not. To date, no long-term follow-up data have demonstrated that any modality of treatment has a statistically significant effect on later gender identity.”

    Report of the APA Task Force on Treatment of Gender Identity Disorder Approved by the Joint Reference Committee, July 2011

    According to, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981931

    “Most children with gender dysphoria will not remain gender dysphoric after puberty. Children with persistent GID are characterized by more extreme gender dysphoria in childhood than children with desisting gender dysphoria. With regard to sexual orientation, the most likely outcome of childhood GID is homosexuality or bisexuality.”

    A simple online google search turns up several examples of children who struggled with gender dysphoria, and later changed their minds as they matured.

    ‘I was born a boy, became a girl, and now I want to be a boy again’: Britain’s youngest sex swap patient to reverse her sex change treatment

    October 29, 2012

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2224753/Ria-Cooper-Britains-youngest-sex-change-patient-reverse-treatment.html#ixzz2AjFa43a9

    Below is a link to a MTV video of a young man who identified as a girl and now wants to return to being a man. Also, in the MTV video, a young woman who once identified as a boy changed her mind and returned to being a girl. The young man who appears to be in his early twenties discusses having his breast implants removed. In the same MTV video, the young woman who looks like she could be in her mid-twenties is shown undergoing laser treatments to remove the facial hair that was caused by earlier testosterone use.

    http://www.mtv.com/videos/true-life-im-questioning-my-gender-again/1704884/playlist.jhtml

    Detransitioning stories are easy to run across on the internet.

    http://detransition.blogspot.com/

    “I am a 22 year old woman who lived as male for 3 years and took testosterone for a year and a half. I am currently 8 months into detransition.”

    http://twentythreetimes.tumblr.com/T.

    “Anonymous asked: I’ve been off T for 5 months now. My hormones are still balancing themselves out, and as that happens I find myself discovering more and more of my inner world that I didn’t even realize I lost while on T. It’s a beautiful thing. I feel like my mental self is re-awakening and growing again. I’m so happy to re-discover the real Me that I love.”

    http://atlasstrawberries.tumblr.com/post/49896874618/ive-been-off-t-for-5-months-now-my-hormones-are-still

    “My name is -name redacted-, im 25 and i am a former FTM, also detransitioning and having a rough time through the post traumatic stress after being on testosterone, my body, my face, my feelings went all wrong on T and know im fighting to come back..”

    http://atlasstrawberries.tumblr.com/post/32054720795/happy

    http://atlasstrawberries.tumblr.com/

    Adults who identify as transgender, or say they “feel trapped in the wrong body” also change their minds and revert back to the sex they were born into.

    I’m a guy again! ABC newsman who switched genders wants to switch back

    August 6, 2013

    “He thought he was a woman trapped in a man’s body — but it turns out he’s “just another boring straight guy.”

    ABC News editor Don Ennis strolled into the newsroom in May wearing a little black dress and an auburn wig and announced he was transgender and splitting from his wife. He wanted to be called Dawn.

    But now he says he suffered from a two-day bout of amnesia that has made him realize he wants to live his life again as Don”.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/guy_again_eKq3Jw6LjgsjpBdmZklrtM

    In 2012, there was an incident in the UK in which a physician was investigated for not following established guidelines in prescribing cross gender hormones and referring unsuitable patients for sex reassignment surgery. One woman regretted undergoing a double mastectomy.

    Doctor under fire for alleged errors prescribing sex-change hormones

    “Dr. Richard Curtis is under investigation following complaints over treatment of patients seeking gender reassignment. A woman who alleges that she was inappropriately prescribed sex-changing hormones and then wrongly underwent a double mastectomy is one of several complaints being investigated by the General Medical Council about the doctor who oversaw her aborted gender reassignment, the Guardian has learned.

    The GMC, the doctors’ professional regulator, has received at least three separate complaints against Dr. Richard Curtis, a London GP who specialises in the treatment of gender dysphoria, particularly transsexualism. The complaints concern the alleged inappropriate administering of sex-changing hormones to patients and at least one allegedly unsuitable referral for gender reassignment surgery.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/06/transexualism-gender-reassignment-richard-curtis

    Who could ever forget the tragic story of Nancy/Nathan Verhelst who was so depressed after botched sex reassignment surgery that she begged a doctor to euthanize her.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2440086/Belgian-transsexual-Nathan-Verhelst-44-elects-die-euthanasia-botched-sex-change-operation.html

    Starting a seven year old girl on a life time of drugs (GnRH agonists, cross gender hormones) and surgery (“double mastectomy” , “bottom surgery”, hysterectomy) is better than letting her be a rambunctious tomboy.

    • 23xx Says:

      You bring up detransition and simplify it as “changing one’s mind and reverting.” Most of the people who detransition still need specialized mental/medical care – it’s not just about clearing the fog of Identity away, many detransitioned people experienced sex dysphoria and that doesn’t just go away after reverting back to living as their birth sex.

      I think it’s appalling to consider giving stuff like Lupron to a child but cutting out the medical treatment still doesn’t fix the root of the issue. People who feel so compelled to transition medically obviously have deeper issues that simply stopping hormone treatment does not fix.

      “Also, in the MTV video, a young woman who once identified as a boy changed her mind and returned to being a girl.” — That’s “femme-gone-rogue” on Tumblr, and that person is currently saving up for a mastectomy and states on their blog “I’m not a woman.” That person’s struggles are hardly over because of detransitioning. That’s not exactly a story to wave about as proof of anything.

      People with sex dysphoria need help. I agree fully that medical treatment isn’t the answer – but I find it really bothersome that step 1 is taking away the only available treatment for them. (us.)

      I’m really struggling through the dark here now that I know taking testosterone and having surgery won’t help me. It’s a lonely place; there aren’t that many of us doing this openly and talking about it. My body still feels wrong even though I know I’m a woman. There’s something more than messed-up identity going on with a lot of us.

      • Siobhan Says:

        23xx, I am sorry you are struggling so. Here in the US, researchers who have proposed studying treatments for gender dysphoria other than those that involve changing “gender presentation” have been bullied into abandoning their research. The fetishists and plastic surgeons do not want any other theories to be examined.
        I had anorexia as a teen, and I suspect that it had something to do with gender dysphoria. My periods stopped and my breasts shrank and I no longer looked very female. I remember that my psychiatrist felt that anorexia was a rejection of our female bodies. It took years to work through it, and I continue on antidepressant medications, but I am completely over that.
        I am so glad that no one offered me full body liposuction or something like that, as I would have taken it. I remember those times well but cannot explain how truly messed up my mental processes were. Unfortunately, anorexia is also badly misunderstood, and, other than group therapy and allowing myself to experience lesbian feelings and sexuality, I really can’t say what helped me to move beyond it.

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        It’s easier in our culture at this time, perhaps, for some people, to feel their “body is wrong” and not the culture, not the family, not the friendships, the sexual relationships, the work situation, the economy, the environment, it could be a million different things. The childhood, the trauma, the PTSD, who knows. Psychotherapy as a field needs to get its shit together to help people like you. Perhaps healing comes from the, dare I say it, radical question: Is it REALLY my body that feels wrong, or is it something else? I think of the title of Betty Friedan’s book: “The Feminine Mystique.” Mystique. “the problem that has no name.”


      • “That’s “femme-gone-rogue” on Tumblr, and that person is currently saving up for a mastectomy and states on their blog “I’m not a woman.””

        Uhm I visited her blog and I don’t see where she wrote it.

      • Leo Says:

        23xx, sorry to hear you’re going through this. I went through years of truly hating and being uncomfortable with every aspect of the way I looked (probably did qualify as BDD, especially as it can occur with OCD, which I have), couldn’t stand to see myself in a mirror. I felt totally disconnected from my appearance, didn’t seem like ‘me’ at all. Oddly enough, no one offered me cosmetic surgery – and I’m glad they didn’t, it wouldn’t have helped. What has helped is simply reaching the stage where I’m beginning to be able to accept myself as a person. This was not something I was expecting or could ever have imagined happening, but as it turns out, just feeling happier with myself generally, and accepting my disability, has made me feel more comfortable in my own skin overall. I’m Ok with my appearance now. Because actually, it wasn’t really about my body, not directly, my discomfort with it was more a symptom of how I felt generally, and partly because of what I’d gone through with surgery for my disability. I felt wrong as a whole, therefore my body felt wrong too. It’s tough, but it does get better. I can look in the mirror and smile at me, now.

        I’d suggest trying to remember to keep focus on other things (it’s difficult when you’re depressed, but you need to even when you don’t feel like it or don’t seem to have the energy, because you’ll just end up feeling even worse else), and to learn to be kinder to yourself.

  16. repowoman Says:

    Insanity all over the place, this in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/mom-of-transgender-child-wants-id-rules-changed-1.2584966

    Note that here is a foster mother who specializes in Aboriginal children and is turning one of them into a “transgender” child. Who protects this child and others equally vulnerable children from mothers and foster mothers who sacrifice them to a “cause” — and for publicity and fame for themselves? United Nations’ Declaration of the the Rights of the Child, paragraph 2, guarantees that: “You have the special right to grow up and to develop physically and spiritually in a healthy and normal way, free and with dignity.” None of this for children who are being mercilessly experimented on!

  17. shediogenes Says:

    I recall wishing I were a boy as a child. I became acutely aware that boys were treated differently, social conditioning had begun. Kindergarten started and the boys were encouraged to roughhouse, were allowed displays of anger, were allowed to get dirty and make messes. My brother was treated like some saint no matter what he did, and his angry tantrums were just him being a boy. If I behaved the same way I was a bad girl, chastised, I disappointed my parents and was told so. My powers of observation of the unfairness of it all were keen, but my ability to process that unfairness were not, and I certainly wasn’t able to fully understand or articulate the root of the problem. I am grateful the deep frustration I felt about being treated so gingerly, and being chastened over unfeminine behavior happened at atime when sex reassignment was not part of the social lexicon. I never really wanted to be a boy, I just didnt want to be pidgeonholed into the limited role offered to female children. As much as I mourn those lost parts and adventures of my girlhood, stolen from me by force by all those ridiculous gendered expectations, I mourn still more deeply for the girls having their girlhoods stripped away from them by the trans phenomenon. They may not face some of the social restrictions so many of us faced, but they are losing their girlhoods because this system were rather treat them as diseased rather than challenge notions of gender. How many of these kids just cant articulate their dissatisfaction with being treated “like JUST a girl”?

  18. Skylark Says:

    23XX

    “I’m really struggling through the dark here now that I know taking testosterone and having surgery won’t help me. It’s a lonely place; there aren’t that many of us doing this openly and talking about it. My body still feels wrong even though I know I’m a woman. There’s something more than messed-up identity going on with a lot of us.”

    I’m sorry that you feel this way. Yes, I can understand where you are coming from. It’s rare for any woman to not feel some dysphoria or disconnection from her body. In our culture, girls are bombarded with messges saying that there is something wrong with them if they don’t look like thin Barbie Dolls. Why are most anorexics female, and why are most cutters female? Society has always left its mark on the female sex. Girls who don’t fit neatly into traditional sex roles and don’t want to look like super models are left with the feeling that they don’t fit in anywhere.

    The problem isn’t you. It’s society and the crushing internalized misogyny that all women must feel.

    I think shediogenes says it better than I could:

    “I never really wanted to be a boy, I just didnt want to be pidgeonholed into the limited role offered to female children.”

    It’s a revolutionary act in and of itself for any woman to truly honor and accept her body.

    While I will never know exactly how you feel, I’ve experienced many of the same feelings that you have. During high school, I never felt like I fit in, and I didn’t hang out with the coolest kids. I was never a “girly girl”. When I finally realized that it wasn’t me but the way society messes with the minds of young women, I was much closer to self acceptance.

    Be a revolutionary. You don’t have to be like everyone else.

    Finally, I think you are a very brave person.

  19. Skylark Says:

    @23XX

    People who decide to detransition should have as much support as people who transition. Currently, there is far more support for “transitioning”, and detransitioners are often shunned. If you don’t believe me, then ask Heath Russell.

    http://nymeses.blogspot.com/

    http://nymeses.blogspot.com/search/label/de-transition

    This woman is awesome, and I love her writing style.

    http://crashchaoscats.wordpress.com/

    As to Femme Gone Rogue, I wish her luck. I hope she finds what she is looking for and some sort of inner peace. I don’t know her, but after watching the video, I sensed that she was more confused than anything else. She doesn’t look that “masculine” to me. I find it hard to believe that she always “felt like a boy”.

    Rejecting traditional sex roles or the way that society treats women doesn’t make you trans or a “boy”. This is what transgender activists refuse to admit, and it has a lot to do with something that is both profound and subtle at the same time. We don’t notice it because it’s all around us. I agree with 23XX in that it’s not easy to fix. In our misogynistic culture, how do we ferret out the internalized misogyny from actual “gender dysphoria”? What girl wouldn’t want to be a boy? Being a girl sucks, and it’s not easy. I envied the freedom my brothers had. I sense that girls like Femme Gone Rogue are running from something rather than running toward a new gender identity. I have no right to judge anyone, and I don’t know what goes on in the minds of people. All I can do is offer my insight. I call it the way I see it.

    In the video, her mother says that she doesn’t think she can go through with another change in gender identity. I guess the parents paid for the “T” (testosterone), and then they paid for the laser treatments to remove the beard growth. A mastectomy isn’t something that can be easily undone.

    Again, I hope she finds what she is looking for.

  20. Skylark Says:

    About three years ago, there was an especially brutal gang rape at a Richmond, California high school. This happened after a Homecoming dance. The girl’s injuries were so severe that she had to be airlifted to a hospital. Her face was barely recognizable. If this girl, or any other female who has experienced this level of trauma, is emotionally triggered by the presence of a six foot tall teenage boy in the girl’s locker room or restroom, she has no rights. Female students with documented cases of PTSD have to deal with males in the girl’s restroom and locker room. Under California’s AB1266, no documentation is required that “gender identity” is long standing and genuinely felt.

    “(f) A pupil shall be permitted to participate in sex-segregated school programs and activities, including athletic teams and competitions, and use facilities consistent with his or her gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil’s records.”

    AB1266 is only thirty-seven words of poorly crafted legislation. There are no guidelines, rules, or standards put in place. It’s a poorly written one size fits all approach to a complex and deeply divisive issue.

    * Under AB1266, no documentation is required. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. No letter from a therapist saying gender identity is a persistent and deeply held belief is needed.
    * A student doesn’t even have to tell his or her parents.
    * Apparently, students can self-identity at any time. Also, nothing would prevent a student from switching gender identification, or going back to identifying with the sex they were born into. This does occur, and it’s always a possibility.

    If we rule out disorders of sexual development (the vast majority of transgender identified people have no DSD), it’s just one psychological diagnosis versus another. How can states with gender identity laws prove that one psychological diagnosis, thought, or perception (gender identity) is more important than another psychological diagnosis, thought, or perception (PTSD in females)?

  21. Margie Says:

    It really sickens me that the local lesbian/gay organization is burdened with defending this insanity. This has nothing to do with LGBs. How much ill will are we generating toward our community by waging the endless wars of trans activists? We are forced to fight their battles because “LGBT” has turned us into mindless drones and has enslaved the organizations we created and which we fund.

    But what I find really surprising, even shocking, about this story is the number of transgender-identified students at one school in Arizona. “Between one and two percent” would be 10X the frequency of transgenderism in the population. But even that does not fully capture the disparity. The 1-2% is not the % of students who might be trans; it refers to the % of students who have formally identified themselves to the school as trans. And on top of that, we are talking about ELEMENTARY school students.

    So here we have a school where children between the ages of 5 and 12 have “officially identified” as transgender at a rate 10X as great as transgenderism exists (publicly identified or not) in the adult population. Bizarre to say the least.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      Margie, this insanity is why I no longer give money to lesbian/gay organizations. It’s because of this bullshit.

      I also think that the whole “transgender” thing is the fad du jour; the latest way for kids to shock their parents, or for parents who haven’t outgrown that stage to show that their kid is a special snowflake is some way. The problem is that in the meantime, a lot of damage is being done.

      • Margie Says:

        FWIW, I hope that you will rethink the approach of not giving $ to any LG organization. If you are a giver, that means you have the power to influence things with your giving choices. Don’t throw away that power. Instead of a blanket ban, think about targeted giving. There are still lesbian organizations out there as well as LG and LGB orgs, and they do good work. In the UK, the largest LGB organization, Stonewall, has steadfastly refused to be coopted by trans activists. In the US, the larger groups have been coopted but there are still plenty of LGB-only options.

        Don’t go by the name of the group. Justbecause the name is L-only isn’t the end of the inquiry. For example, the “Center for Lesbian Rights” is totally transjacked. But if you dig a bit, you will find that there are lesbian health groups, LG social organizations, artistic events like our beloved MichFest that need support. And any giving to marriage equality will not only help lesbian and gay families but is a guaranteed way to piss off trans activists. You might even be able to give to specific projects within an “LGBT” organization on the condition that the funds are limited to that project. There are lots of options, so please don’t give up and cede the battlefield to the “LGBT” cultists.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Sorry, Margie, I didn’t see your comment until today. You make some really good points. I will give this some thought….

    • survivorthriver Says:

      That is quite striking. Since gender is a social construct, there is obviously something quite curious going on in their grade schools. That deserves some epidemiologist in this crowd to untangle, but, it is also scary that a climate of sexualizing quitie young grade school children by anti-gay parents, doctors and psychologists.

      This is most likely a case study for “Delusions of Gender” validation for Cordelia Fine’s research conclusions..

      Folie a deux is a craziness of two, but this is Folie a PTA – when a whole school is being indoctrinated.

      • BadDyke Says:

        Could just be, sissie boys and tomboy girls who previously would have had the words queer and lesbo lobbed at them, now instead get pushed down the trans route by mummy and daddy. So, little girl who DOESN’T want to wear pink frilly dresses and be a little disney princess, at least if she accepts when she is told shes trans, then she can finally wear the shorts and t-shirt she wanted. What else could explain this reidiculously high figure? Seems you can’t just be a tomboy any more you must be trans……………………..

        One and two percent fits the figures for gays better than it does trans. As we predicted, just NOT conforming to gender stereotypes is no longer acceptable, and better trans than gay any day…………………

    • Siobhan Says:

      A friend who is a school psychologist recently went to the huge US National Meeting in Washington, DC. According to her, transgenderism is the “hot topic” and a large number of sessions were held about identifying and supporting transgender youngsters. She was really quite excited about it all and very annoyed when I argued with the idea of a five year old having any kind of “innate sense of brain gender.” It sounds like these sessions trotted out the much-debunked studies as if they were scientifically sound and claimed that they were “proof” of the existence of the gendered brain. In children. Very discouraging.

      • Leo Says:

        The only explanation I can think of that would make any kind of sense is if the school were known to accommodate trans kids, and so parents specifically tried to get their kids into it. Otherwise, that number does seem high. It’s rather concerning, since kids are too young to really understand gender roles anyway, and they do pick up stuff from their peers. Well, at five they’ll tend to believe what you tell them, including in Santa Claus. So it would just be so easy for a child to end up confused about their identity, and steered down what may actually be the wrong path for them.

        I think the organisations should just be LGBA, surely even transactivists ought to see that gender isn’t at all the same thing as sexual orientation, you’d think they’d want their own organisation instead.

      • morag99 Says:

        How awful, Siobhan!

        “Identifying” transgender children–does this mean so-called professionals will now be actively rooting them out and giving them the words to explain why they are having trouble accepting coercive gender training? As in, telling them their emotional troubles are due to having the “wrong body”?

  22. margaret Says:

    FYI Gallus – gender neutral bathrooms are dangerous, who knew? This week from the University of Toronto :

    http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2015/10/05/university-of-toronto-alters-bathroom-policy-after-two-reports-of-voyeurism.html


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