Sterilization of “Transgender” Children: Current Practice and Future Possibilities

September 8, 2014

 

 Dr. Sherman Leis hugs a child whose healthy reproductive system and genitals were surgically removed at the age of 16 [Philadelphia Inquirer]


Dr. Sherman Leis hugs a child whose healthy reproductive system and genitals were surgically removed at the age of 16 [Philadelphia Inquirer]

In the UK, Children as young as three years of age are now being admitted to state medical clinics for “corrective treatment” of sex-role noncompliance, with the aim of upholding social norms of gender and to prevent the development of “visibly transgendered” adults. Such treatments involve administration of drugs which halt normal child development (“Puberty Blockers”) followed by the lifetime administration of cross-sex hormones, resulting in sterilization. In the US, the first federally-funded state eugenics program in over thirty years will be launched in Oregon on October 1, 2014, specifically targeting pre-pubertal children deemed by parents and providers to be “transgender”. Surgeons now routinely perform complete “Sexual Reassignment Surgeries”: removing the genitals and reproductive systems of children as young as sixteen.

 

The following are excerpts from an interview featured in this month’s issue of LGBT Health Journal, discussing the “Current Practice and Future Possibilities” of sterilized transgender children:

 

Dr. Eyler: So there are treatments for trans adults who want to become parents. Would the two of you like to discuss the needs of transgender youth, particularly children who may not complete pubertal development in the natal sex, and possibilities for future fertility for them?

Dr. Pang: My experience has been only with postpubertal individuals. The youngest transgender person whom I have treated was 22 years old, so I do not have any experience with children who are either early postpubertal or prepubertal. I think that more transgender young people are becoming interested in potentially being parents. Last year, I was contacted by the mother of a transgender teenager, a 15-year-old transgender son. Her son is interested in fertility preservation; they had questions so I explained to them what it would involve. The technologies that I have to offer are useful only for postpubertal youth, such as someone his age, but I am sure that you, Anderson, might have ideas about how to help prepubertal children.

Dr. Clark: In the trans community, more and more trans youth are being treated at younger ages, such as at Dr. Norman Spack’s clinic at Children’s Hospital in Boston. Some gender variant children are treated with puberty suspending medications, GnRH analogs, similar to the treatment of children who are experiencing precocious puberty. This keeps them from going through the full puberty of the birth sex, spares them from developing secondary sex characteristics that are misaligned with their psychological gender, and gives them some time to mature.

Dr. Eyler: Cognitively and emotionally.

Dr. Clark: Yes, to be able to decide, when they get older, whether they want to medically transition. Some gender variant children are not actually transsexual or transgender as such, and will eventually decide to stop treatment and experience the puberty of the birth sex. Others, with the support of their parents and clinical team, find that they need cross-sex hormone treatments to proceed with the puberty that is aligned with their gender.

The Endocrine Society Guidelines1 support puberty-suppressing treatment beginning as early as Tanner (sexual maturity rating) stage 2, so this can precede significant hormonal and sexual development. Some adolescents, therefore, don’t develop the ability to produce viable gametes (eggs and sperm). Adolescent trans girls may lose fertility from estrogen treatment, even if they developed the ability to produce sperm before this was started. When they reach the age of majority, trans youth may also proceed with gender-affirming surgery that includes removal of the gonads.

For children and young adolescents, it is often the parents who are thinking about future reproductive capacity, because they would like the possibility of grandchildren, and because they are looking after the future interests of their children. When I speak at community conferences, they often come to ask about reproductive options for their children.

Dr. Eyler: Yes, and as a biologist, you are prepared to discuss the significance of the gametes not maturing and what future reproduction might involve.

Dr. Clark: Yes. The most applicable research has been performed on behalf of children who are treated for cancer and are rendered infertile. The Society for the Preservation of Fertility focuses on the needs of both postpubertal and prepubertal youth who may experience sterility from cancer treatments.

Techniques for cryopreservation of postpubertal ovarian cortex are showing a lot of promise. In the case of cancer patients, the ovarian cortex is transplanted back to the young woman after she undergoes chemotherapy and/or radiation treatment. Babies have been born through this technique.

Some trans boys receive puberty-suppressing treatment and never produce mature ovarian follicles that could be stimulated for harvest and cryopreservation of eggs. They therefore could not use the techniques that Samuel described earlier for transmen. If they later decide to have their ovaries removed as part of their transition, the ovarian cortex could be cryopreserved at that time. The desired use of the tissue would be to culture the ovarian fragments in vitro (outside the body) for maturation once the individual is ready to have children so that viable eggs could be produced and used for IVF. This technique has been used successfully with mouse ovaries.

Dr. Eyler: It should be technologically possible to use the same technique, or a similar technique, for humans.

Dr. Clark: I’m optimistic that it will eventually be used as a fertility preservation treatment for trans boys.

Dr. Eyler: Would a similar technique be available for preservation of fertility of trans girls?

Dr. Clark: Unfortunately, deriving mature sperm cells from cryopreserved testicular tissue is more complicated, so for trans girls, early collection of sperm for freezing is important when this is possible and future fertility is desired. There are case reports in the scientific literature documenting viable sperm collection from adolescents as young as 11 years of age.

Dr. Eyler: So it might be possible, for some trans girls, to collect sperm very early.

Dr. Clark: Yes, although the collection would need to take place prior to treatment with puberty-suppressing medications. The quantity of sperm collected from someone this young would likely be low and, for some individuals, may not be mature enough to fertilize an egg. But those sperm might be used with intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI), a well-developed fertility treatment, once the individual is ready to have children. Even immature sperm cells, such as round spermatids, have been used during ICSI, although I believe that the success rate is lower than with mature sperm.

Dr. Pang: That procedure has been called ROSNI (or ROSI, for round spermatid injection), where precursors of mature sperm are injected directly into oocytes. This has been proposed as a treatment for men in whom mature sperm cannot be identified due to complete meiotic arrest, but it is still considered experimental. ICSI with mature sperm is commonly used and has a much better success rate.

Dr. Clark: In vitro development of immature cells into mature sperm is very difficult, but it has been done with mice. So in the future, that may become a fertility preservation technique for trans girls as well.

lab-mouse

Dr. Eyler: Those techniques would be needed only for trans girls who were too young to produce viable sperm at the time of pubertal suppression. If a trans girl experienced male pubertal development that included spermatogenesis, which for some could be as early as 12 or 13 years, then the sperm could be cryopreserved without the need for advanced techniques. But it would be useful to have the more technically sophisticated options for youth for whom progression of puberty to that point really is not an option due to psychological or medical reasons.

Dr. Clark: Yes. The procedures I am describing would be for use in early puberty.

Dr. Eyler: But ICSI is available now. Could you describe this procedure in more detail?

Dr. Pang: ICSI is a procedure whereby a single sperm is picked up using a microscopic needle and injected directly into the human oocyte. That technology was developed in the early 1990s, and has been used successfully for over 20 years. It is used primarily in situations where infertility is associated with a severe male factor, usually involving very poor sperm motility or a very low sperm count. It is also used in situations of sperm dysfunction, where we discover, during a regular IVF cycle, that fertilization does not occur with the conventional insemination methods.

More and more people are doing ICSI electively with sperm that would otherwise fertilize eggs normally, to maximize the numbers of eggs that fertilize. When we do elective ICSI with normal sperm, the average fertilization rate is well over 90%. So it is a very good strategy to increase the number of eggs that fertilize.

Dr. Eyler: Retrieving eggs requires a surgical procedure every time, so a couple struggling with infertility would want to minimize the number of cycles they would need to do that.

Dr. Pang: Yes, by maximizing the number of eggs that fertilize so that they get the maximum number of embryos from each treatment cycle.

Dr. Eyler: As we are having this discussion, I am struck by the history of this subject. It was not all that long ago that lesbian couples with no infertility problems, simply needing donated sperm, were denied services on moral or religious grounds. At this point, lesbians without infertility problems are getting pregnant with donated sperm, and the type of work that you are describing is opening up additional options: Having one partner be the egg donor and the other partner carry the pregnancy, so that both have a biological relationship to the child, or maximizing fertility for lesbian and bisexual women who have infertility problems.

Efforts focused on finding options for male couples to have their own biological children have also had some reasonable success. At this point, some couples with a transgender partner are getting fertility services, and transgender youth who are not yet at the point of considering reproduction are beginning to have options for fertility preservation. Most of the trans children and trans teens are not thinking about fertility preservation because of their youth, so it is the parents who are inquiring about these services in many cases, and you are discussing options with them.

I am impressed by how far this field has come in just a couple of decades, both technically and politically.

Dr. Pang: I think it is really important to educate people about the treatments that are already available, though more will be developed in the future. I have been encouraging Greater Boston PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) to set up educational seminars for parents of LGBT youth, so that they can learn about these options. One of the things that many parents grieve, when their child comes out to them as gay or transgender, is the loss of the possibility of having grandchildren from that child. That was what my mother said to me when I came out. And I have heard this from many, many gay men and some people who are transgender.

We need to let people know that that is no longer necessarily the case. For transgender individuals, it is particularly urgent, because the window of opportunity for fertility preservation will close if they have surgeries that remove the gonads, or take estrogen for a substantial period of time. Ovulation is more likely to resume if testosterone treatment is suspended than effective production of sperm is if estrogen treatment is suspended.

Dr. Clark: I think there is a strong need to educate the primary care physicians and other clinicians who work with trans people so that they can explain the options to them, because, when trans people are dealing with their transition, preserving their fertility may not be something that they are thinking about at that time. And we need to educate the therapists, who are sometimes the first people who are in contact with trans people when they start to consider transition.

Dr. Pang: It should be part of the counseling. We cannot count on the transgender children and teens to think about it, because, when they are going through the crisis of gender identity, the last thing on their minds is having children in the future. They have much more pressing issues to deal with.

Dr. Eyler: And for children and young teens, it’s sometimes not a developmentally appropriate concern, whether or not gender identity questions are present.”

————————————————————————————

 

“Dr. Eyler: What about future fertility preservation for transgender youth? Has there been any progress with insurance coverage for those services?

Dr. Pang: In the practice of fertility preservation for cancer, some insurance companies will provide coverage and some will not. Whether or not they will extrapolate coverage for fertility preservation for cancer patients to transgender individuals has not yet been determined.

Dr. Eyler: The medical necessity agreements [sic-GM] can certainly be made, but this remains an untested area. In the meantime, it might well be worth it to many families to pursue this independently.

Dr. Pang: Yes. My passion, if you will, at this point in time, is to get the word out to the LGBT communities that there are options available if people want to have genetically related children. More work needs to be done in terms of achieving equality in insurance benefits, but this is more likely to happen if people are aware that treatments exist and press the health insurance companies to cover them. The problem is that most people have no idea that these options are even possible for them.

Dr. Clark: I would also like to mention the practical and ethical aspects of fertility preservation for transgender youth, because I think that there is a need for people to give this the consideration it warrants. In these cases, it would usually be the parents of the children who would be initiating inquiries, coordinating care, and paying the uninsured costs. While the children are still minors, the parents would also have control over the preserved gametes, the ova and sperm, for use by the children at a later date.

Dr. Eyler: As the guardian of the minor child and his or her decision maker.

Dr. Clark: So what will happen to the gametes if those children grow up and choose not to have children? Can the parents use the gametes without the permission of their children, either before or after they reach the age of majority?

Dr. Eyler: One would hope that after the age of majority, the adult children would be in control of their own tissue products and their use, if any, and that the parents would not be allowed to make use of them while the child was still a minor.

Dr. Pang: Following the inquiry last year from the parent of the transgender son, our clinic revised our oocyte cryopreservation consent form to include signatures for guardians in the event that the patient is a minor. I need to check to see whether or not it addresses the question that you brought up; it may not. This is new ground for our profession, just as the other treatments were when they were first being done.

Dr. Eyler: Ethically and legally, minors do not consent to most medical procedures; they assent to treatment and the guardian consents on their behalf. Then, at the age of majority, they consent for themselves.

Dr. Pang: We may need to add a paragraph to this consent form stipulating that, when the child reaches the age of majority, he or she assumes ownership of his or her cryopreserved gametes, and that they will not be used before that time.

———————————————————————————

[Images added by me-GM]

 

Read more here:

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/lgbt.2014.0045

Eyler A. Evan, Pang Samuel C., and Clark Anderson. LGBT Health. September 2014, 1(3): 151-156. doi:10.1089/lgbt.2014.0045.

170 Responses to “Sterilization of “Transgender” Children: Current Practice and Future Possibilities”


  1. I wonder when the lgb movement will notice that there is a decreasing of lgb and a increasing of trans youth. When will the impact of this trans madness be visible?

  2. Miep Says:

    Brought to you by the people who brought us DES.


  3. But kids are going through puberty much earlier these days. My son started showing signs at nine. Are they really going to give these awful chemicals to preadolescents!?! What in the hell is wrong with these parents?

    • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

      They’re desperate to show how open-minded and accepting they are, and that they can be their kid’s “friend” instead of a mean old authority figure. And honestly, for a lot of them I suspect there’s a cachet to having a trans kid; kind of like a bizarro-world version of a pageant mom, or a version of Munchausen-by-proxy. Their kid is a victim and they’re going to fightfightfight!

      (I’ve suspected, too, with a few of them, that they’re so eager to jump on the transwagon because doing so enables them to ignore what their own contribution [so to speak] to their child’s issue has been. If the kid has a “birth defect” and was just “born with a ladybrain,” then they don’t have to examine how they’ve treated their daughters vs. their sons, or how much they’ve actually accepted their child as-is sex and all, or what kind of role models they’ve been.)

      • Em Says:

        “What in the hell is wrong with these parents?”

        Narcissism, for the most part. The parents themselves may not be so special, but by God their kids are.

      • lin Says:

        They want to show how good and loving and accepting they are because other trannykids will complain about how hard their family took it, but their little trannykid will just gush about how cool their parents have been, helping him buy a new wardrobe and teaching makeup tricks.

        And the kids are minors so the parents get to be on TV with them! And walk the red carpet! And sue the school so their son can take the place of a real girl on the soccer team! Maybe they can get a documentary made about them, or a reality show … One can dream.

      • farishcunning Says:

        Yes, Munchausen by proxy sounds about right for these “parents”.


      • Yeah, I think you’re right. I know the parents of the “princess boy” seem to have that type of problem. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with “princess boys,” but I do think putting your child in the media spotlight is ALWAYS a no-no. I dunno, I’m even leery about giving my children OTC meds like Tylenol, so the thought of giving them chemicals like Lupron, is just horrific. I still maintain this shit is child abuse. I can’t believe any medical doctor would actually participate. It’s eye opening to be sure.

      • lin Says:

        I remember watching a show on Jazz Jennings. His mother averring that if he wanted to go back to “being a boy” that would be fine. Yet the whole family has so much emotional investment in his being trans.

        Later Jazz explains how being transgender is so cool because he wouldn’t be on TV otherwise, he’d be just another boy. And then mom brings him to some trans event where one of the senior nonpassing frankentrannies shook his finger at him, repeating “Never give up.” What kind of burden does that put on a kid to feel like he’d be letting adults down (including his parents) by giving up this ruse. You could just see him 20 years later explaining how he felt he had no choice but to continue.

        He had a kind of horrified expression through most of the event. He said it was sad to hear all the tranny horror stories of nonacceptance that he was so lucky his family and friends didn’t put him through. But I think a little of that horror was to realize the community he was part of.


      • “He had a kind of horrified expression through most of the event.”

        He will be a lot more horrified if he deals with the side effects of puberty blockers and drugs.

        Short term memory and constant boine pain aren’t “cool”.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Swarms of adult male crossdressers “follow” Jazz and run super-creepy “fan pages” like this:
        https://www.facebook.com/pages/We-Love-Transgender-Jazz/177384342425787

      • jo Says:

        UGH! That fanpage appears to be made by pedophiles!

      • Em Says:

        @jo and GM

        Transvestism–paraphilias in general–seldom (never?) occur in isolation. Pedophilia is a fellow traveler with transvestism probably >75% of the time.

        Jazz’s followers admire him because a powerful woman (hmm, who would that be?) is forcing feminization on him.

        This is just sick. Does no one remember David Reimer?

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Why did I look at that Facebook page why why why

        That is SICK. The pedophilia oozes off the screen.

      • I'm No Cissie Says:

        @lin The reality show is becoming a reality:

        http://www.etonline.com/tv/161092_jazz_jennings_tlc_reality_show_all_that_jazz/

        He’s also one of the new faces of “Clean and Clear” acne products.

    • druidwinter Says:

      These ‘parents’ are letting guys with sexual fetishes decide to make permanent changes to their children, including taking Lupron, also know as chemical castration drug given to child sex offenders, What a coincidence.

      This is not because the child is dying, has cancer, no- it is because they pick up the wrong toy, Sex-role enforcement. The parents are worried because their child might be gay, and you know these guys throw that one in their face- like this is somehow worse than cancer.

      these guys participate because this is their fetish- they dont have any other credentials except it makes their dick hard and they think women will never know it is a turn-on to get them to talk about a child’s limited understanding/ limited experience of sex[like every other child], and-guess what? they are willing to help out in that way..

      Even collecting sperm……., how are they going to do that?

      Do you really think they will do it medically? Let me guess, someone will have to teach him the natural way, at what age did they say, 11? and jacking off a child will be a medical procedure, I wonder if they will film the sexual abuse, and call it a ‘medical film’ and share it for ‘education’. This is the new child porn for poor guys.

      To get access to children, they have to control the mothers first, and silence them from preventing men from having children they want access to.

      They blog about it , share photos and beat off to it like any other porn that sexualizes children, this is just a legal way for men to get access to the sex they want. Transgender ‘children’ is a child-porn trick that sterilizes the children and exposes them to sexual experiments set up by men that are sexually excited about tending to a childs imagined sexual needs.

      They think women walk around horny all day from wearing high heels and stockings and lez it up in the bathroom with the kids watching. This is why it is important to have a law that allows a man with a functional penis to access children in public places. Just because a guy sucks another guy’s dick to get his ID to say ‘women’ doesn’t mean it is a golden pedophile ticket. Don’t feel bad about speaking out.

      • Teal Deer Says:

        “like this is somehow worse than cancer.”

        I’ve seen some of these sick jerks, when arguing for insurance coverage for hormones and surgeries, stating that trans treatments should be prioritized over cancer treatment, because the dysphoria is “fatal,” the cancer treatments are more expensive than the hormones and surgeries, and the cancer patient may die anyway. The ones who think that way can jump off a bridge, into a pile of glass, as far as I’m concerned. And a big STFU to any transactivist who points to that and says “see, see! They want us to die!” It’s not because they’re trans. It’s because they’re heartless assholes.

      • druidwinter Says:

        I wonder why the ‘adult’ trans[like phalas fox] dont take the lupron to kill off the male ness, then take the female hormones. This is what they are asking children to do, or else you are a transphobic bigot. They are willing to experiment with both females and males in pre-pubecent children[like the are disposable 1/2 persons in their fantasy].. That seems rather odd to me, and alarming that they are doing medical experiments on children that are not even sexually mature or of a consenting age. It is child abuse. Harvest sperm from an 11 year old? Child sexual abuse. They are not going to use a needle to withdraw that.

        And what about the complication of removing a healthy uterus? In women, it is attached to your hip bones and it is durable [this is to center anchor any possible child carried] but it also serves a purpose of holding back your intestines and keeps them from pressing on your bladder. Are they cutting this out and putting a mesh -implant, like the ones they are now recalling? What a scam, and on children?

      • lin Says:

        Wow, druid, I did think of that but you really brought it home. Gross…

    • Adrian Says:

      Yep – that’s what the “Tanner stage 2” stuff is all about. It’s the early stages of puberty that “regular observers” don’t even really identify it as puberty yet. Not really even any pubes yet, never mind functional sperm.

  4. davisdykes Says:

    Please keep in mind that this is being done to PHYSICALLY HEALTHY CHILDREN. They are ADMITTING that they are STERILIZING CHILDREN. It’s a human rights abuse on its face. As to these medical procedures to preserve fertility, there is no guarantee that any of these technologies will work. They know they are intentionally rendering healthy children infertile, and then they turn around and say, “Well, there might be ways to persevere fertility”. What happens if the parents don’t choose to use any of these technologies, or simply don’t have the money. The GnRH agonists are expensive, and if there is added lab work and other procedures, it’s going to get very expensive.

    Children do not have the mental capacity to make informed decisions. There is a reason why we don’t let teenagers vote, buy alcohol, fly jet planes, or take out bank loans. The prefrontal cortex of the brain isn’t fully developed until the early to mid twenties.

    The prefrontal cortex, the part of the frontal lobes lying just behind the forehead, is often referred to as the “CEO of the brain.” This brain region is responsible for cognitive analysis and abstract thought, and the moderation of “correct” behavior in social situations. The prefrontal cortex takes in information from all of the senses and orchestrates thoughts and actions to achieve specific goals. This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations.

    “In the practice of fertility preservation for cancer, some insurance companies will provide coverage and some will not. Whether or not they will extrapolate coverage for fertility preservation for cancer patients to transgender individuals has not yet been determined.”

    Otherwise physically healthy children are being intentionally rendered infertile based on a questionable psychological diagnosis.

    Deliberate delaying a normal part of human development, adolescence, because of what basically amounts to a questionable psychiatric diagnosis in healthy children assumes all the following:

    (a.) The diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” is correct to being with, and there isn’t something else going on in the child’s life.

    (b.) The child is completely free from any parental, peer, or cultural influences. How much is “gender dysphoria” in a 12 year old child, and how do we separate this from everything the parents read on transgender websites and blogs? How much is actual “gender dysphoria” or GID and how much is parental discomfort at having a child that doesn’t fit neatly into sex based gender roles?

    (c.) Children have the mental capacity to decide or choose for themselves.

    It’s a scientific fact that the pre-frontal cortex of the human brain which is sometimes called the judgment center of the brain isn’t fully developed until the early to mid-twenties.

    • staceyjwsolar Says:

      Of course they will spare no expense for the trans, because they are so special! In Oregon, OHP (state Medicaid) for low income people will cover ALL of these procedures and drugs, with zero copayment!

      I guarantee there will be serious gaming of the system. There will be many more people claiming this “diagnosis”, coming out of the woodwork (ie: “moving” from another state). In a state with such a low population, I wonder if they planned for this, or thought it was OK to cover this stuff because the use of services would be very low.

      Being the only state currently covering all “GID care”, for free, and only one MD that even takes these patients in the state (they may travel to Ca- on the taxpayers dime!), this ought to be costly and a buerocratic nightmare.

      These treatments are so costly, I know there will be quite a bit of moving to Oregon, quitting work/ going part time/ outright lying and fraud, just to qualify for OHP will be very attractive. It will be justified by trans as “lifesaving!”, as if you are under reporting income to insure you have access to cancer treatment. FFS.

      I’m sure there’s an order, like therapy first, then hormones, you can’t just skip to surgery, just like you cant get expensive meds unless you trial cheaper ones first, or there’s a serious medical reason. This won’t be enough to deter people.

      Overal, coverage is excellent for everyone, but there are gaps that hurt normal people. Women, who cannot get eye exams for glasses, and only this year have we gotten any dental care. But no more than the most basic of dental care, (ie, no anesthesia with dental surgery (!!!), extractions galore). Etc. at least we still pay for abortion, but as it’s always under dire, who knows the future?

      • spoondexter Says:

        > for low income people will cover ALL of these procedures and drugs, with zero copayment!

        That pretty much guarantees there’s going to be a trans kids epidemic.

      • spoondexter Says:

        > no anesthesia with dental surgery

        Also that galls me! In many places you cannot get basic dental work covered, unless its an extraction. You need a simple filling? Nope, that tooth can go or you can suffer. I know one person who recently was taken advantage like that, they told her they wanted to remove all her teeth and replace them with dentures, even though she only needed a filling. Last I heard she was toothless (she’s a mentally simple person, easy prey, snatched by a professional predator).

        Can’t get coverage for important basic stuff, like dental! (how is that not considered essential?), but cosmetic surgery and transgender frivolity gets paid? An orchidectomy or hormones, all inexpensive enough, but genital eradication surgery and facial feminzation are pricey mofos.

        Once Medicaid gets to covering this more and more across the US (isn’t this already covered in England and Australia?) it’s going to go epidemic, there’s no doubt about that. This is going to eat the uneducated and impoverished alive. “Trust us, we’re doctors.” Trust will be given, and shit’s going to be all fucked up, for a long time, for a large number of people. So sad. ;(

        Anyway, it galls me hardcore. *steaming from ears*

  5. davisdykes Says:

    Some trans boys receive puberty-suppressing treatment and never produce mature ovarian follicles that could be stimulated for harvest and cryopreservation of eggs. They therefore could not use the techniques that Samuel described earlier for transmen. If they later decide to have their ovaries removed as part of their transition, the ovarian cortex could be cryopreserved at that time. The desired use of the tissue would be to culture the ovarian fragments in vitro (outside the body) for maturation once the individual is ready to have children so that viable eggs could be produced and used for IVF. This technique has been used successfully with mouse ovaries.

    Because it’s been successful with mouse ovaries doesn’t mean it will work on humans.

    Don’t sterilize children in the first place. This is so sad and pathetic that I don’t know what to say. Stop experimenting on children.


  6. One would hope that after the age of majority, the adult children would be in control of their own tissue products and their use, if any, and that the parents would not be allowed to make use of them while the child was still a minor

    We may need to add a paragraph to this consent form stipulating that, when the child reaches the age of majority, he or she assumes ownership of his or her cryopreserved gametes, and that they will not be used before that time.

    Jesus fucking hell.

    Interesting implications. Signing your fertility away to your parents/medical practioners.

    One could argue about age of consent in relation to being deigned old enough to determine reproduction.

    In other words, paedophiles dream.

    What about on terms of legality if the patient determines they were not adequately minded at that age to determine their reproduction and could sue doctors or their parents for sterilisation?

    This is a psychiatric illness and they are sterilising people for it.

    I could have sworn we condemned this.

    This doesn’t contradict the Nuremberg laws about not experimenting on people?

    • sarineal Says:

      There is something Frankensteinian about this, the doctors have nothing as simply endocrinologists or surgeons but pushing the boundaries in doing this on the bodies of young children brings them out from the crowd. This means a lot of investment in this personally and professionally, despite the endocrine guidelines which say for each intervention the evidence base is very low or low quality. It’s grand experiment and right to be concerned at the results for that child as they age and mature away from the influence of others that reinforced throughout their lives that they were born in the wrong body and it must be corrected.

      This is hugely unethical and sets an otherwise healthy child upon a course which is irreversible and will have long ranging impacts. I’m sure there are more than a few already here that have questioned if they are not mature enough to think though issues like future fertility, how on earth can these children be mature enough to make the decision that will forever modify their body? What’s worse it’s clearly going to be a lesser thing, with them being dependent on medical for what is merely a facsimile of the real thing.

      • kesher Says:

        I find it so infuriating that a childless woman under the age of 30 basically can’t find a doctor willing to tie her tubes, but these doctors are gleefully sterilizing children. If that doesn’t expose the rampant misogyny in the medical establishment, both in refusing to honor women’s health care choices and prioritizing the needs of boys over girls, I don’t know what does.

      • Tobysgirl Says:

        The endocrinologist link is interesting. Across the board doctors are often at best mediocre, but endos take the cake for being the crappiest docs imaginable. See

        http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/give-me-a-break/

        for many examples of how these people (men and women) treat women patients. They are stupid, grotesquely misogynistic, and seem to get most of their treatment ideas from drug salesmen. Might that speak to their enthusiasm for poisoning children?

  7. atranspaige Says:

    I wouldn’t usually post on this site, but Oregon’s completely lost it.

    Their not just covering lupron. They’re covering hormones and multiple surgeries as well. Waiting periods before surgeries can be waived, and 15 year olds can consent to surgery without parental approval! What 15 year old is going to actually understand what they’re doing when they consent to sterilization, castration, mastectomy, etc…

    The whole process has been designed to push children through transition as fast as possible without any pause for reflection. This is going to decimate the lgb youth population in Oregon and create a generation of heavily traumatized adults. That’s if most don’t kill themselves when they finally begin to process what’s been done to their bodies.

    http://www.pdxqcenter.org/breaking-historic-vote-brings-comprehensive-trans-healthcare-to-oregon/


    • Yes, processing something like this and the implications is going to lead these children to suicide. It’s wrong for doctors to cut out healthy organs. It’s even worse when it’s male doctors doing the cutting and legitimizing of this practice, and that’s because men have historically been responsible for medical and genocidal atrocities. It’s time for men to back off when it comes to medicine. They’ve already committed too many atrocities and made too many “mistakes” to justify their presence in the field. And yet here they are again. They’ve donned their white coats for a new generation and are back in the business of commiting unspeakable atrocities.
      I would not be surprised if the ovaries that are extracted from these children are used for dubious purpsoses. I already feel sick at the thought of men making money out of harvesting the eggs of adult women who have ‘consented’ , but to do it to teenagers who are too young to really understand the implications is just…
      I hope these medical practicioners and ANYONE involved in legitimizing what is going on die an early death and rot in hell.

      • staceyjwsolar Says:

        Since you mentioned suicide-

        The excuse given, for using radical hormones and extensive surgeries, is that the cost of “treating GID” this way will be *lower* than all of the ER trips, suicide attempts, that come with not transitioning.
        Not even kidding.
        I bet if I look around on the Eugene Weekly web site I can even find the paragraph with the politicos explaining this.

        I wonder,
        Did they even look at the after transition suicide rates?

        OH THE IRONY!

      • staceyjwsolar Says:

        And here is the link to go with my other comment about the states claim that surgeries etc will “save lives and cost less”:

        http://www.eugeneweekly.com/20140828/news-briefs/medicaid-expands-coverage-transgender-oregonians

        I.Can’t.Even.

        They think 175 people in the state will use these services, but I bet it will easily quadruple with others coming here just to get this treatment FREE. IDK how much these treatments cost, but I can see it being quite a bit.

        I am not the type to complain about the cost of needed medical care, but claiming this will save money is insane. I bet they got their stats straight from the trans groups. I know how getting treatment covered by OHP works in is state; small zealous groups get anything they want if they are loud enough.

        And to think, OBs and CMNs don’t even get paid enough to cover the cost of prenatal and maternity care, they *lose money* with every pregnant patient they take right now (fees got lowered with the ACA expansion). I don’t know how long this can go on before docs and midwives start limiting the number of OHP/Medicaid patients they take, like in Texas, where many just don’t take Medicaid because the fees are just too low.
        As always, womens health care takes a hit, while care for men is prioritized. (I realize the #’s of trans is tiny compared to women, but its the idea that pisses me off.)

        JFC.

      • Leo Says:

        They talk so much about the it reducing the suicide risk, but where is the treatment for mental health conditions? (which genuine dysphoria may well be, anyway) Mental health treatment is often appalling or just plain unavailable. Why isn’t that seen as being as urgent and as important to address? There’s plenty of talk from LibFems about MtT and their suicide rates, and their supposed ‘health needs’, and their risk of suffering abuse, but I don’t see them talking about women and girls with chronic depression or other mental health conditions, or with physical disabilities (the former often occurs with the latter, also, especially in chronic pain conditions depression often occurs also), or how those things apply to them (as the endocrinologist link above shows, it can be really hard as a woman to get doctors to take you seriously, for instance. They’re often exceptionally stunning specimens of male arrogance). They tend to totally ignore the existence of women and girls with disabilities, in fact. So, they’re insisting that transition, someone physically altering their body, is completely necessary despite evidence it may not even reduce suicide risk, while not talking about the widespread lack of access to proven and non-invasive treatments like CBT etc. – which might well help those with dysphoria too. I was talking to a woman the other day who has the same condition as me, scoli, and it came up how unhappy we’d both been with our physical appearance, the negative reactions and cruel comments from others, and, after surgery, the scarring, the awkward pockets of skin. The same LibFems who apparently think it’s so important to stop these kids looking the way they totally naturally would, following a completely normal puberty, funnily enough don’t seem to find time for issues like that, or to consider the harm being done to these children’s bodies. Surgery is not some bloodless, perfect process, swap unwanted body parts out for new ones, hey presto. It’s messy and painful and it leaves scars, real tissue damage, sometimes nerve damage, which is utter torture to live with.

        It just doesn’t make any sense at all. Rant over, lol. Must be in a bad mood today, my scar and basically everything is killing me, and it makes me so mad and sad to think of children being steered towards totally unnecessary surgery, while children who DO need surgery are ignored by those same activists, at that. Starting to regard it as to some extent an ableist issue also, especially with the narrative that these children are ‘inspiring’, reminiscent of disability porn (I don’t like that phrase, sorry I don’t have a better one), especially when the story that it’s a ‘birth defect’ is used (pretty insulting to those born with actual issues). They don’t want to see any of the unpleasant aspects, the pain or abuse, the reality of it, they just want to see ‘aww, how cute, she’s really a girl!’.


      • I agree that it’s weird that women are supporting the trans movement, and I wish they wouldn’t, but women are n’t in the driving seat. The politicians legislating in favour of trainswomen are men, the doctors and surgeons are men. Psychiatry is on board with it because they’re the ones peddling the female brain myth. If psychiatrists gave a shit they would be lobbying against trans activism on the basis that their claims of feeling like a woman are fantastical and delusional.
        What we can conclude is that women are supporting these men out of a mixture of fear and misogyny. Mothers are being targeted for propaganda by doctors and the media in general to the extent that they feel that they’re bad people if they oppose what transsexualism stands for! Transfer activists are encouraging confusion among women because whenever women ask them QUESTIONS about trans they receive threats of violence.
        Women have long ago learned that the only response they’re allowed to the idea that a male can transform into a female is to smile and nod in agreement.

      • kesher Says:

        Fear and an eagerness to acquiesce to/cater to men probably are big parts of why many women eagerly promote trans politics. That’s also part of the reason why I don’t think anyone, trans activists or “allies” actually think trans women are women. Women don’t get catered to like this. But I don’t think that’s the entire story.

        Back when I unquestioningly supported trans activism, I made multiple assumptions that have since been proven wrong.

        First, I assumed that trans women would be giving up their male privilege by transitioning, that made me supportive of their cause by default. Finding out how entitled so many trans women activists are was a rude awakening.

        Second, I went by the same reasoning many others fall prey to, the idea that there really must be something wrong with trans women if they’re willing to mutilate their bodies. The fact that the vast majority don’t get SRS was also a rude awakening. On the one hand, they shouldn’t have to mutilate their genitals. On the other hand, that they keep their penises points toward fetishism, not dysphoria, as one of the factors for transitioning for the majority of them.

  8. staceyjwsolar Says:

    I have a friend with a little girl, about 7-8yrs old, that she claims is a “trans boy”. She (the girl) is dressing in “boy” clothes (because no girls wear short hair, batman shirts and jeans, right?). I think they are using male pronouns and a male name too. Mom is a well meaning liberal, that thinks she is being caring.

    I’m sure everything I am going to write has been said here about 1,000x. I am new, and still going through past posts, trying to grasp this mess. I may be inaccurate, as I am still learning.

    That said-
    It does not surprise me at all that a little girl would look around this sick, sexist, misogynist,world, and identify with the male role, instead of the limited, obviously inferior, role foisted on her by patriarchal society. I can also see a girl, that is attracted to other girls, believing she must be a boy, somehow. After all, to many, girls are supposed to like boys, not girls, and being gay is an “abomination” (I wanna puke just typing that).

    Gender roles are very strong influences, that are pervasive, and inescapable, in every part of our culture. I can see this causing gender dysmorphia, just like our culture creates other severe body dismorphias, like anorexia. I don’t doubt these feelings are both very real, and very painful.

    But I cannot imagine the best solution to this problem to change her biological sex.

    The whole concept blows my mind: Instead of tearing down gender roles, trans are instead upholding, even strengthening them, as if they are more real than ones actual, genetic, anatomical, sex. The goal is to match the preferred gender to the sex, with the gender as true and unchanging, and the body as alterable.
    This is insane.

    Also, it sure looks like gender non conforming, and lesbian, girls, are being pushed into being trans nowadays. Society is using trans as a counter, a “solution” to lesbianism and gender non compliance. As if being a lesbian, or a girl that likes “boy things”, is so outrageous that the girl must be sick! she must hate herself so thoroughly that she mutilates her own body to conform.

    I think a big difference these days is how the parents, like my friend, and society, react to these non conformists. In the past, parents/school/friends would either force her to fit into the girl role more forcefully, or encourage her to continue exploring all interests, without regard to gender.

    I’m sure there is a lot in between, but I am pretty sure a parents first reaction was NOT- “well, maybe you’re really a boy, but with a vagina!” This seems to be a new thing, and IMO it short circuits a girls growth and understanding of the world. It will lock her into the gender role defined for males, instead of allowing her to realize those roles are just total bullshit.

    ARGH.
    And now they are experimenting in my state.

    • Adrian Says:

      Welcome, and right on. You’re right – girls who don’t conform these days are sometimes suggested “hey, maybe you’re really a boy inside.” It’s nuts, and I don’t mean the testes kind.

      What boggles my mind is that the trans crowd insists that they are being somehow gender transgressive, when they are the furthest thing from it! NO ONE upholds and reifies traditional conservative gender roles more than the trans lobby.

      They like to say “well, you can’t change the brain, we are who we are, so we change the body.” Because it’s all about the precious “matching” to them.

      How about changing NOTHING and waking up to the idea that there IS no “proper” relationship of personality to genitalia?? Therapy! Great! Let the therapy be about teaching kids to accept their minds and their bodies both, and learning how to deal with a society that wants to deny that possibility, learning how to successfully live as the black sheep in society and be an individual?

      I’m a woman in pants with very short hair, but I am NOT a man. Whatever I like is “what women like” because as a woman I (help) define that!

      Personally I think the rapid increase in transgender kids should be a red flag – if this is supposedly so “inborn,” why the increase over just the past 20 years or so?

      • staceyjwsolar Says:

        They will say there are not more “trans” kids, it just seems like it because they are not afraid to come out.
        There is a lie, or delusion, for every occasion.

    • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

      I wanted to be a boy when I was about that age; I had an older brother whose clothes I got to wear sometimes and liked better than some of my girl clothes. Boys got to do cooler, more exciting things; they were stronger and ran faster. They played baseball (not stupid softball) and football and got to be stock car drivers, which was at the time one of my dream careers. I wanted to be named “Steve.” (Partly because I’ve never liked my real name, and am still not crazy about it.) I thought it wasn’t fair that I had to be a girl when my brother got to be a boy.

      I shudder to think what might have happened to me if this type of thinking were popular then, instead of my parents just smiling and telling me I was a girl and I’d probably be glad of it when I was older, and that girls could play sports and drive cars and do exciting things, too. I can’t imagine where I’d be if my parents took that as gospel and started drilling into me that I wanted to be a boy because I WAS a boy, and they’d move heaven and earth to make sure I got hormones and surgery.

      As it happened, by the time I was about ten I was very happy as a tomboy and looking forward to the time when I’d start wearing make-up and curling my hair and dating boys and all of that. Most of my female friends, in fact, went through that “I wish I was a boy” phase at some point, and none of us are unhappy being women.

    • ImNoCissie Says:

      Yes, as I read these stories about “trans kids” I am struck by how the adults in the room are SO rigidly defining gender roles.

      I was a kid in the early 60s, and in comparison these parents seem LESS tolerant and accepting of any behaviors or preferences that cross their preconceived gender boundaries.

      Pink, frou frou and Disney Princess (blech) for females, if not, you have “boy brain.”

      Sports, trucks and superhero cartoons for males, if you dont like those, you have “girl brain.”

      We had more freedom and tolerance back in the dark days of June Cleaver! Arent we supposed to be more enlightened now?

      Ive grown up quite “femme” and I’ve never hated my body, but based on some of my behaviors and preferences in early childhood, had I been born now, I might have been taken to a shrink or someone like Dr Spack to find out if I had “boy brain” or not.

      By the way, do the transactivists ever actually say that women can have “male brain” and thus be trans or is laydee brain specialness just a guy thing?

      Footnote, it is certainly possible that some of todays “transkids” have body dysmorphia, that warrants psychiatric treatment, not pandering to the delusion or distress that the child expresses.

      But so many of the concerns these parents have involve behaviors that just dont fit rigid gender “norms” that seem to be based on consumer culture and are more rigid and unrealistic than anything imposed on kids in the 50s and 60s

  9. FeistyAmazon Says:

    “Brave New World”
    Absolutely frightening what they are doing to tgese kids. Youre of majority age do what you want with your body…but dont force this shit on kids..get rid of sexism and most young girls wouldnt have to identify as male and could be honored as tomboys…and little boys could be tomgirls or effeminate. Keep sexism and this is the result. Gender is a lie..a falsehood and now childrens bodies are paying the price for it!!! Taking away their viable organs before the age of majority so reminds me of locking up Butches in middle and upper class families for refusing femininity..and this was done ti Dykes I know all the way up into the 80s and reminds me of electro shock and lobotomies and other forms of torture and surgeries and even clitoridectomies performed on Butches and other sexuslly active women early in the 20th century…not just by Moslems or in Moslem countries!!!

    Only huge lawsuits will stop this phenomena!!!and exposing the lie of strict gender roles and transition at ever younger ages as a solution!!!

  10. Ashland Avenue Says:

    “We cannot count on the transgender children and teens to think about it, because, when they are going through the crisis of gender identity, the last thing on their minds is having children in the future.”

    So it’s understood and accepted that they’re too young to be able to really think about the future when it comes to having children, yet magically, they’re old enough to be taken seriously – and obeyed – when it comes to having huge changes made to their bodies, some quite permanent. Got it. I guess the children and teens’ lack of foresight doesn’t matter when there’s money to be made, and medical glory to be had.

    • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

      Yep, that was my thought, too.

      Sheesh.

    • Teal Deer Says:

      But it’s okay, the parents will look out for their fertility, and have little 11-year-old Johnny/Jenna wank into a cup a few times for the nice doctors, so they can freeze their lady-sperm for future use. SMH.


    • It’s not even about the money for these doctors. Take a look at the history of patriarchal medicine and weep. Men have historically derived great pleasure out of cutting and mutilating bodies, especially women and girl’s bodies. Western Doctors were practicing FGM on THREE YEAR OLD GIRLS in the twentieth century to cure them of ‘behavioral problems’ And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Money is just an added bonus for these men, believe me. They’re cutting out the ovaries of girls because they LIKE doing it.
      Men have also always regarded boys as their competition, so it doesn’t surprise me that they’re also having a ball mutilating them too. In Japan during World War One many towns only sent teenage boys to war to be killed. The men stayed at home. I think it’s important to mention this because when men have had access to the bodies of boys they have never been impartial. They’re motivated by a lot of things and one of those things is that boys are their competition. Mormons get rid of teenage boys by sending them away so the older men can access more women. In other words I don’t think men should be sterilizing teenage boys. They have no right to. And we already know what men think of women and girls’ bodies: disposable commodities, so the medical fraternity has no right to do anything to female bodies either.
      As a radfem perhaps I should be glad that boys are getting sterilized, but I’m not. It makes me sick. But when I think that they’re also doing it to girls too I just…well, I just hope they get their comeuppance, to put it mildly.
      And to me, this isn’t even about these kids having children in the future. It’s about the fact that these are important organs. Cutting them out can create problems for the rest of the body. Who knows how many cancers will be manufactured by this.
      But for me it goes even further than that. These doctors don’t see the human body as something inviolate that should only be touched when absolutely necessary. They prick and probe and cut and mutilate because of their innate inability to regard the body as sacred and whole. Recently radfems have been talking about the Y chromosome being a mutant. Endorsing cutting into healthy bodies is mutant behaviour. There’s something very wrong about it. Men need to back the fuck off and stop pretending they know anything about health.

      • sellmaeth Says:

        Very important point about the boys – men who complain that they don’t profit enough from patriarchy (as a means of arguing that it doesn’t exist) often forget that it is called patriarchy and not, I don’t know, whatever the term for “man” is. It’s the older men who get all the advantages – but of course all young men hope to survive to an age where they can reap the privileges, so never fight the system.

  11. liberalsareinsane Says:

    Brought to you by the school of Josef Mengele.

  12. hearthrising Says:

    Notice the question of how successful these fertility treatments would be is not raised. Dr. Pang just keeps bragging about his success without defining what that is. I guess it’s just based on feels, like whether you’re a boy or a girl. Knowing so many heterosexual couples for whom infertility treatment has failed makes me less sanguine about all of this. IVF is not a sure thing, it’s terribly invasive, it’s expensive as hell, and it’s emotionally exhausting to experience especially if it doesn’t work the first time. Infertility is best treated by avoiding it in the first place by reducing STDs and chemical exposure. So here, they’re deliberating setting the stage for necessitating medically based infertility treatment.

    On a side note–I worked under Dr. Eyler for a short time, not doing anything related to trans. Never talked about this subject, and to be honest I didn’t care that much about it back then, even though I never bought the trans narrative. It was only after young children started being diagnosed by behavioral health professionals as trans that my alarm bells started ringing. It used to be that we told the parents the kid would probably grow out of thinking they were the wrong sex and to be prepared for the probability that the child was gay. And almost always that was true. Dissatisfaction with gender is very common in childhood, and it’s not the dissatisfaction but the persistence in some individuals that’s the problem. And you can’t identify in childhood who will and will not adjust, though almost all children do. But better for 100 kids to be unnecessarily medicalized than for one person with persistent dysphoria to be unable to pass well enough to stealth invade a biological-women’s event. and if a boy loses his penis and cries about it later, he was never really trans, and those are cis tears. I think psychiatrists and social workers who promote transition and turn a blind eye to all the grief this causes are reprehensible, and I blame them the most for the toxicity of trans politics.


    • I spent ten years dealing with infertility and having various treatments. Even under the best circumstances, the success rate is less than 20%. And that’s when you’re not dealing with juvenile immature semen and eggs.


    • “and if a boy loses his penis and cries about it later, he was never really trans, and those are cis tears”

      I’ve actually read the equivalent of this comment several times now on tumblr, or I would believe you exaggerate.

      You don’t at all.

      Truth.

      I see some big-ass class-action lawsuits imminent. Imagine the TV commercials: “If you or your child was diagnosed as transgender and placed on the following medications…. please call 1-800-LAWSUIT –operators are standing by.”…

      • survivorthriver Says:

        I wish we had a feminist lawyer at-the-ready today for this law suit.

        I wish that same entity could investigate the Unicorn Project in Oakland right now before the damage to vulnerable youth are committed.

        Yes, there is Nuremberg Code, Belmont Convention, and all the pre-HIPAA authorizations that make protection of vulnerable human research subjects mandatory. I hope all these baby-gay kid medical-molester promoters get prison.

  13. CallingSong Says:

    Disgusting. Who are these kids parents? Who needs enemies with parents like that. If my parents would have said “yes” to everything I thought I needed, I would look like Jocelyn Wildenstein by now.
    It’s okay to say “no”, and trust them that they will make their own decisions when they are adults. So many things my parents said “no” to me when I was little that I’m grateful for now as an adult.

  14. pandoracurioser Says:

    this is child abuse, plain and simple. You don’t get to hide your children under a false identity because you can’t face the fact that their personality doesn’t conform to your expectations or stereotypes. Except now you do get to do that. By mutilating them and instilling the idea that they have to be very embarrassed of their biological sex. This is child abuse.

    p.s. Thank you Gallus for reporting


  15. I don’t understand this gay doctor fighting for procedures that essentially represent an anti-homosexuality genocide. Are they really that dumb?

  16. WordWoman Says:

    What’s wrong with this picture? I’m not aware that surgeons and other doctors hug their patients like the one shown. Or in this post: https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/07/06/a-member-of-my-family-decided-that-he-was-really-a-woman/#comments In the video at the end of the initial post there is a lot of hugging of the folks who are having their genitals removed. I actually watched the whole thing partly because I was fascinated by the surgeon and all the hugging. Why all the hugging? Where’s the professionalism, for one thing?

    I had my gall bladder removed. My surgeon was rather cold and clinical, though she did an excellent job. Should I feel cheated? 😉

    In all seriousness, something about this hugging bothers me a lot, especially with these young kids. Obviously the whole thing is beyond horrendous. Is the hugging supposed to hide all that?

    • GallusMag Says:

      YES. You are really onto something there..

      The article that photo is attached to was linked in the post but I’ll repost it here if anyone wants to go digging deeper. Horrific article.

      http://articles.philly.com/2014-09-07/news/53657543_1_transgender-people-transyouth-family-allies-aly

      • Motherhood Says:

        Well one of the signs of an abuser is that they will always be showing physical affection in public. When child abuse is suspected a tell police use is which parent is showing the most physical affection.

      • Adrian Says:

        In the article, Dr. Spack (of course he’s involved!!) says:

        “When I’m doing a complete exam, almost without exception those who are born female but identify as male are wearing boxer shorts. The boys who see themselves as girls are almost always in girls’ underwear – often those that are printed with the day of the week. No one else sees that, but it is important to these kids.”

        Uh-oh. I realize that as I type this, I’m wearing a pair of Hanes tighty-whities. Should I be worried?

        Meanwhile, they still make those “day of the week” undies? I had no idea.

        Somehow to me the hug is extra creepy due to knowing it’s the guy who did the sex reassignment. Just… ew. And she was only his SECOND youngest patient, “on the verge of 17.”

        I was shocked to find that there are doctors who will do full mastectomies on kids under 16 (kids with no health issues). That was bad enough…

      • anon male Says:

        Obviously, if you google “doctors hugging patients” (it autocompletes, even!), lots of pictures come up. But that’s true for everything. Some are file-art, others are journalistic — very few seem to be organic though?

        A lot of kids are shown. But the one pictured above isn’t a kid (but 16+ and almost old enough to vote, murder for king and country, etc.), and it’s not a pediatric doctor.

        I guess “journey” type illnesses seem to be the ones that require it, whether hospice, cancer (which remits rather than is cured), or… I guess trans?

        Add in the facebook nature of transition, where everything is on a spectrum of before and after, where visual documentation proves progress progressive, requiring infinite data points captured on film, every second of every day and?

        What better a way to show someone following a feminine role than to photograph them that way? They’re not going to show the kid covered in mud, playing rugby, right?

        I guess the remaining question?

        Does the doctor have a creepy antique doll collection at home, too?

      • ImNoCissie Says:

        The undies with days of the week comment is muy creepy and gross! That just sounds like the perverse fantasy of a man who grew up in the era when those things were in fashion.

        I feel so sad for these young people. As if a lifetime on hormones from age 30 onward isnt bad enough, these kids are having their endocrine systems tinkered with from age 9 on ward.

        What is wrong with these parents?

      • GallusMag Says:

        Wait a minute. I’m absolutely certain he has talked about those “day of the week undies” before.

      • GallusMag Says:

        There are 3,900 results to a google search of “norman spack” and “underwear”.

      • Miep Says:

        “There are 3,900 results to a google search of “norman spack” and “underwear”.”

        When people get a clue as to how evil pushing SRS on children (or anyone, for that matter) is, perhaps he can start his own line of Spackies Undies, in order to compensate for lost revenues.

      • spoondexter Says:

        >Spack told the Boston Globe last March, “All I know is that when I see preadolescents, they have been dressing in the underwear of the other sex for years. These kids are almost certainly transgendered. They’re a unique population of patients.”

        Jackass.


      • Wow, While watching that video of Spack talking, I felt awe and horror at being in the presence of evil. It wasn’t just him, but his tittering audience too.
        If I was in the audience I’d ask him to specify what he mean by “sex of rearing” because it sounded like he was trying to say your sex is derived from how you”re reared, which we all know is scientifically incorrect.
        I still can’t get over the fact that although it was feminists who invented the concept of gender in order to explain women’s oppression and now we get men like Spack acting as though THEY first coined the term….All of this gender talk is a perversion of originail feminist work.


      • Referring to children, he says “You can help them by not forcing them to make the decision of going through puberty at a gender they don’t affirm”

        What on earth? So going through puberty is now a decision that children are forced to make? Sounds suspiciously like trying to guilt- trip mothers into taking their kids to the doctor.

        How dare those evil mothers force their children to MAKE THE DECISION of going through puberty.

        Puberty happens. There’s no decision about it. How dare those uppity women with their faulty wombs create human beings that go through puberty. Tut tut. Lucky we’ve got men like Spack to set us straight on where mothers have been going wrong. He’s going to fix all our faulty children. He can do a better job of creating life than us. Spack, you idiot.

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        FFS. I wore boxers for a large part of my early twenties. Little punk-rock me liked the way they looked peeking out over my jeans (all my boxers were plaid), they were comfortable, they looked cute under skirts, and they looked *awesome* over garter belts & stockings, which were what I tended to wear instead of pantyhose. In fact, I could go out wearing just a button-down shirt (often in a different plaid or with a band name screened on the back), with tights, garters, and boxers, Chucks on my feet, and be totally comfortable and look “girlier” than if I was wearing heels and a frilly dress. A lot of us girls started doing it (the added benefit was we could borrow our boyfriends’ underwear if need be, just like we wore their jeans and t-shirts).

        If they’d made old-fashioned “bloomer”-type undies for women I would have bought a bunch of them, but they didn’t.

        The idea that boxers automatically = trans is just ridiculous.

      • anon male Says:

        As a male, no one I knew wore boxers until high school and only to say (announce loudly!) in the locker room the visual equivalent of “I’m NOT a boy but a man, my mom no longer buys my underwear, and I’m fucking eighth grade pussy now.” Usually, in almost all cases, mom was still buying his underwear and despite being slime, he probably wasn’t exploiting younger girls.

        I think the boxers/briefs questions that politicians (e.g. Clinton) are asked are really “are you a real man” and boxers are the correct answer. Nnevermind, if you work a real job that doesn’t involve internet porn all day, you’re going to want your junk held in place, especially if there’s a remote chance of encountering a situation where you must flee or fight. Wearing boxers for a male is kinda like wearing flipflops all day, every day, and hoping for the best (no rain filling the streets with sludge, never having to rush for the bus, etc.). So briefs forever, imo; strap that shit down.

        It’s interesting that MTFs are obsessed with girlhood and doctors don’t have a problem with that but Spack sees FTMs as immediately jumping past boyhood into dudebro douchebag land.

        I guess because girlhood is sexualized and hence gender is apparent but boyhood isn’t so they have to move directly to post adolescence to get the gender fix?

    • Teal Deer Says:

      I’ve been wondering that, too. I can’t think of any incidents of hugging with any of the healthcare providers I’ve had in my life. It seems like either a symptom of the overall inappropriateness, or an attempt to make it all look warm, fuzzy, and life-saving, like a St. Jude’s commercial.

      • WordWoman Says:

        Or maybe a boundary violation? Control? Or a way to give the child approval/manipulation for something that is the adult’s agenda? Or all of the above. It just creeped me out when I saw it. It creeped me out enough when I saw it with older people in that video, I linked. But with kids it’s so much worse. Even as a child I never had our family doctor hug me, though he was kind to all members of our family and well-liked.

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        Eh…I have to say, I have been hugged a couple of times by a doctor (aside from the ones who worked with my mom in the ER, who I knew socially). My beloved OB/GYN hugged me when I came in for my first prenatal appointment with both of my pregnancies; I’d been seeing him for five years or so when I got pregnant with my first, and the first year or two of that we had frequent appts. because I had precancerous cells on my cervix so had a biopsy, and then a LEEP procedure to remove the cells, and then biopsy & colposcopies every few months, so we had a lot of appointments for a while there. And we really got along very well, and I started seeing him because he dated a co-worker of mine. So we had a very good relationship, and he was genuinely excited for me.

        But I’ve never been hugged by any other doctors for any other reasons.


      • Dorothy Mantooth, when you say you started seeing him, do you mean dating?? I have issues with an ob/gyn seeing his patient or ex-patient because you can never quite rule out trauma bonding.
        I often wonder what on earth men are doing in the field of gynecology anyway. Clearly they shouldn’t be there, especially given that gynecology is a popular porn genre.
        I researched gynecology for a post I made once and what I found wasn’t pretty.

      • sellmaeth Says:

        It reminds me of the big parties they throw for girls who are having their genitals mutilated. I think it is a kind of conditioning; something nice and fuzzy is added to the horrible procedure (and is the only part of it shown to those who will have to undergo it at a later date), so that people will consider it a good thing in retrospect, and others will be keen to have the procedure, too. (I am pretty sure that at least with FGM this is not done in an conscious intent to manipulate, but because it is “tradition”, and also to ease the guilty conscience – but it remains psychological manipulation nevertheless.)

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      WordWoman, you’re not alone in noticing that. I’ve commented in the past here about Bowers’ lack of professionalism when it comes to physical contact with his patients. I remember in one episode of that T.V. show they had about him, he kissed one of his patients. (And IIRC, it was on the mouth.) I was watching that show long before I found this site, and even then, I was taken aback.


    • Given what we know about the history of patriarchal medicine why should we give these doctors the benefit of the doubt about anything?
      How do we know they aren’t deriving sexual pleasure from mutilating children’s genitals? They need to get away from peoples’ healthy genitals. There is no justification at all for them even to SEE these kids’ genitals , let alone operate on theme
      In Australia a woman went for labia surgery for health reasons, and was told the surgeon would remove a small piece of labia. On the operating table as she sank into the an aesthetic he whispered into her ear ‘I’m going to take your clit too”. When she woke up she found that most of ear vulva was missing, including her clitoris. She sued him. You can read about it and other stories like it here http://www.medicalerroraustralia.com

      Men like that Australian doctor get sexual kicks out of this.

  17. Loup-loup garou Says:

    “Some gender variant children are not actually transsexual or transgender as such, and will eventually decide to stop treatment and experience the puberty of the birth sex.”

    There you have it. He admits that these drugs will be administered to boys and girls who don’t exhibit the behaviors stereotypically expected for their sex, because such children are now considered potential candidates for so-called “transition.” Once upon a time, the penalty for gender non-conformity was disapproval and harassment (or violence), now it’s a bizarre medical intervention that can derail normal physical maturation. (Because what could be worse than being a hardcore tomboy or a great big sissy?)

    The idea that anyone is “gender-variant,” rather than just someone with, you know, a sex and a personality, needs to be questioned within the medical establishment, pronto. I have the impression that doctors who don’t deal with this issue in their regular practice don’t actually realize how far the transing of children has gone. I think if more were aware, the public conversation that needs to happen might happen sooner.

    Personally, I fall much more on the “nurture, not nature” end of the range of opinions when it comes to sex-typed behavior, simply because I’ve experienced the kind of pushback women get for not conforming to the Femininity Mandate, and I know that this non-conformity can have a such a high cost that sometimes, it’s easier to go along to get along. However, I have met plenty of people whose views are more “nature, not nurture” — in other words, people who are kinda sexist — who can still concede that not every member of the male or female sex is exactly the same, and who don’t think outliers are inherently bad or in need of correction. People like that, who aren’t necessarily feminist allies, but who are also not batshit crazy genderists, also need to know that this is being done to kids that they would just regard as “outliers.” Maybe even to one of their own kids’ friends from school. They will speak up, and, I’m sorry to say, be listened to more than any of the feminists who have been doing the hard work of getting the news out.

  18. Loup-loup garou Says:

    Also, note how casual they are about the fact that the fertility preservation methods they’re talking about, for F2Ts, at least, are going to involve IVF and surrogate pregnancy. IVF has its own risks; moreover, if the surrogate is not the egg donor’s partner or friend, will she be some desperate woman in India who’s being paid to carry someone else’s child?

    These are the kinds of choices those well-meaning parents set their children up for when they let some gender therapist steer them towards transition. If they want to preserve their children’s options to have kids, they should start by allowing them to grow up with their bodies intact.

  19. kesher Says:

    I wonder how long it will be before not consenting to medicalized treatment for GID will be, in itself, “child abuse” according to the medical establishment and the state.

    I’ve already seen the gendercult state as much, that parents not being 100 percent on board with gender identity, even if they’re otherwise letting their kids wear what they want/play with what they want and not bullying them for who they are, is tantamount to abuse, and any parents not 100 percent on board are solely responsible for their child’s suicide.

    I also don’t understand how radical surgery and hormone treatment became the sole accepted treatment for this disorder. A doctor wouldn’t give an anorexic a diet plan. A doctor wouldn’t give someone with body dysmorphic disorder a prescription for plastic surgery. Why is gender identity the only mental disorder treated this way?

    • ImNoCissie Says:

      Re child abuse, in light of the fact that Spack practices at Boston Children’s and that is the same hospital that has been involved in several incidents where they accused caring parents of medical neglect – chances are good that they will eventually coerce families to subject their children to this treatment or face charges.

      See Justina Pelletier’s case for an example of what I’m referring to, in terms of coercive treatment.


      • That hospital experiments on children taken into state care, and accuses parents (mothers, as you say) of FORCING men to operate on their children. As if mothers can force a hospital to do anything. What a patriarchal reversal.
        The article I found said that children under state care can be subjected to medical experiments that put them at ‘substantial risk’ . Risk of what? Death? Permanent disability? Maiming?

    • Tobysgirl Says:

      Actually, fat women with anorexia or bulimia (yes, they do exist) HAVE been given diet plans as doctors’ brains are so small they cannot conceive that someone can be fat and only consuming 400 calories a day. I can’t count how many stories of fat women with deprivation EDs I’ve read.

      • kesher Says:

        That’s true. I’ve also heard stories like that, although even the most dismissive doctor, I would hope, wouldn’t give an underweight anorexic patient a diet plan.

        Promoting eating disorders in overweight women is the product of the “thin at any cost” mantra of the medical establishment, but when eating disorders are having effects that no one can ignore (underweight, amenorrhea, hair loss), the standard medical practice is to save the patient, not support her delusion of being grossly fat.

      • Tobysgirl Says:

        And these same symptoms of starvation are ignored in fat women, including serious medical issues.

  20. Deborah Peifer Says:

    So, children who are different are being sterilized so they won’t have equally “different” children? Just when I thought I was paranoid enough.

  21. Guls Says:

    This represents nothing more or less than a paradigm shift in understanding of what male/female means. I always understood male/female in terms of roles of reproduction. Liberal ‘trans’ theory re-writes that.In a world where men finally have total control over reproduction: The Handmaid’s Tale/Brave New World writ not so much literature as reality.The human race is doomed, then…

    As a man I’m trained to punch a guy in the face who tries to exert this control over me. More violence is the last thing needed in the face of this threat. How does one resist this pernicious intellectual trend?

  22. Guls Says:

    p.s. I’ve not received email notifications for the last couple GT posts. Have you altered your settings or is this a wp glitch? Ax

  23. Em Says:

    “I am impressed by how far this field has come in just a couple of decades, both technically and politically.”

    Me too!

    I also wonder how much logic and ethics can be tortured before people finally say enough is enough.

  24. silkyvelvet Says:

    Horrible! This is frightening beyond belief. This “doctor” needs to have his license revoked immediately, because what he’s doing to children is definitely child abuse; it’s criminal. He’s another Josef Mengele, with these senseless and creepy medical perversions, which serve no purpose except to enrich his bank account. Parents who go along with this are also perpetrating child abuse, whether they know it or not.

  25. silverside Says:

    My 13-year-old step daughter decided she was a trans guy. Literally for one day, then she changed her mind. This is the same girl who changes her hair color every other week. She’s into one band for a few months, then all their stuff goes in the trash and she’s on to a new enthusiasm. This is what young teens do. They experiment, they try new things. But you don’t permanently commit them to anything.

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      I just figured out how trans is making such inroads in such young people: Ketchup.

      That’s right. It used to be ketchup was ketchup – it was red.

      Then I saw they came out with BLUE ketchup – I read that salsa was selling more than ketchup, so I guess ketchup had to “catch up” to salsa (sorry for bad pun).

      So these are kids growing up with 20 kinds of ketchup, 100 kinds of shampoo, 10,000 choices for wallpaper for desktops, 1 million bands to choose from. Choice, choice, choice!

      Well, except when it comes to abortion…maybe there’s not so much job flexibility…social mobility…but you can change your gender and dye your hair every color of the rainbow! Yeah rainbows! And unicorns too! And ketchup!


  26. “Some gender variant children are not actually transsexual or transgender as such, and will eventually decide to stop treatment and experience the puberty of the birth sex.”

    How can they “decide” this if they DON’T MATURE due to puberty blockers??

    Also note how now one speaks about the great danger of puberty blocking drugs? It has disabled people before so “trans” children will be no exception.

    It’s not just hot flashes like they claim. Memory loss, constant bone pain, depression (yes these drugs can make you depressive) and worse are possible side effects.

    How can children who had NO puberty decide to have their sex organs removed and replaced with something that doesn’t even work like the real thing.

    Have you seen “results” of srs? Horrible – even if the most celebrated trans surgerons did the surgery. See for yourself if you don’t believe me.

    It might satisfy the older fetishists but I doubt a child who did not mature sexually will be happy in the long term.

    See and my last sentence could also be about intersex people. That’s how far trans activists and their crazy supporters go. Sterilization and surgery for those who do not fit.


    • As a fully adult woman I was on Lupron for one month to shrink uterine fibroids prior to surgery. I IMMEDIATELY developed arthritis in my hands and wrists. That was 12 years ago, and I STILL suffer with this, sometimes a debilitating extent. I cannot imagine inflicting this drug on my child.

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        I was having super heavy bleeding, huge clots, getting to be anemic – the doctor told me if I had HAD insurance (before Obamacare), they would be telling me I needed a hysterectomy. But luckily enough – I didn’t have insurance, couldn’t afford a hysterectomy – so I was on birth control for about 2 months to stop bleeding – then I couldn’t afford the pills – so I stopped them, and luckily enough, my period got “reset” and I stopped having that super heavy anemia-inducing bleeding.

        But if I had HAD access to medical care, I would have had my uterus taken out, UNNECESSARILY.

        I know everyone is different. But I find it “interesting” that the doctor just right away went to hysterectomy, the most invasive treatment, the most expensive treatment, for my hypermenorrhea (or whatever its called). When it turns out I didn’t need one. Hmmmm.

  27. ImNoCissie Says:

    I remember when it was considered unethical to do rhinoplasty on a teenager. My how far we’ve come! Not in a good way.

    I see folks on social media calling the requirement to have SRS in order to change sex designation on state ID “forced sterilization”…the opposition to imposing these medical procedures on kids may cross political lines… but .will that matter when the medical establishment supports this?

  28. lin Says:

    Transkid Jazz Jennings and a co-author wrote a 32-page book with a target audience in kindergarten through 3rd grade (8 years old). No doubt it is full of “It’s OK to be trans” sentiments, putting ideas in the heads of impressionable tots who want to emulate older kids. In my day we read about life on the farm with Spot the dog, now they get boys in dresses.


    • Great. So children who are going through a normal phase will think they are trans if they like things aimed at the opposite sex. In the worst case this will lead to blocked puberty followed by surgery and a dependence on artificial hormones their whole life PLUS the side effects of those blockers and drugs.

      INSANE!

      • Miep Says:

        Puberty/adolescence physically changes children’s brains. What happens when that process is artificially postponed? Why isn’t this question addressed more frequently?

        http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v7/n10/full/nn1326.html


      • ” Why isn’t this question addressed more frequently?”

        Now imagine scientists come to the conclusion that blocking puberty is in fact fucking dangerous.

        Trans activists wouldn’t like this at all. They want to “save” gender nonconforming children from commiting suicide but instead of helping them with therapy (suicide threats often have to do with mental illness) – they favor toxic puberty blocking drugs and the removal of healthy sex organs.

        If it becomes public that all this disables children and affects how their brain and endocrine system works – there will be an outrage.

        Right now they are LYING about the consquences but I wonder how long people will believe this until an outrage happens.

  29. Bev Jo Says:

    A lot of people are making a lot of money and Narcissistic parents are loving the attention.

    It all becomes clear when we know that “trans” is a complete myth that is designed to help het men get access to Lesbians or to get attention as they fetishize and caricaturize women, or for women to express their self-hatred and/or try to get access to gay men.

    The few F2Ts who I see at events in San Francisco, usually look quite alone and lonely, clearly not men, and clearly not Lesbians.

    The men parading as women do much better of course, and having the money most have (and male privielege even while they pretend to deny it) does help.

    Meanwhile, I’m meeting increasing numbers of young feminine Lesbians who, when they first searched for support in dealing with Lesbian-hating family and friends as teenagers or younger, went to their local “LGBTQWTF” center and were told by the men there that they were not Lesbians, but trans and should have surgery and take hormones. I can imagine the pressure is even worse on the young Lesbians who are less feminine. I’ve also heard about the men posing as Lesbians running groups for young Lesbians and pressuring them into letting them fuck them. I’m guessing there will be no “studies” about how many young Lesbians are raped by the men running “support groups” at “LBGTQWTF” centers.

    Yes, Mengele indeed. The US eugenics movement of the Thirties (which sterilized my aunt Evelyn at 16 for being a “criminal”) inspired the Nazi eugenics movement, and the “father” of US eugenics, Harry Laughlin, was awarded honorary degrees by the Nazis.

  30. K Says:

    I fear for the future of these children and homosexuals. How long do we have before this kind of treatment becomes the standard for lesbians, non-standard women and gay men of every age and social standing? How far are they going to go to feel like they’ve erased our entire existence?

    • Motherhood Says:

      This will hit the fan I think before it becomes standard. These kids will grow older and they will very angry and will speak out. 10-15 years tops. Also these autogyenphilacs will start getting older, Alzheimer’s–they will not be able to their lies up.

  31. WTF Is This Nonsense? Says:

    It seems odd to me that a child would “know” they are the opposite sex, when they can’t even define the difference between the sexes in any articulate way.
    It’s always “girls wear dresses and boys wear pants” or some crap like that. They’re not even sure what girls and boys are, but they know they’re in the wrong body?

    People with amputee identity disorder feel that their healthy, normal limbs don’t belong to them, but I don’t think we treat that with amputations, do we?.


    • I also find it VERY strange that children are supposed to be saying a lot of things that could only have been put into their heads.
      I can understand a child saying ” I want to be a boy” at a push, but that’s NOT the way most children think. Most girls hate boys, or are disinterested in them at best. It MUST be the adults around them telling them that they’re acting like boys, or saying shit like “That’s what boys like doing, are you sure you want to do that?” And the same goes for the boys who think they’re girls.
      Some children, like Jazz are even supposed to have said ” I want a vagina” at the age of 8. Mosy eight year old girls couldn’t articulate much about their genitals so what on earth is a boy doing talking about a girls’ genitals for? It’s so obvious none of this is coming from the children themselves.


      • “at the age of 8. Mosy eight year old girls couldn’t articulate much about their genitals so what on earth is a boy doing talking about a girls’ genitals for?”

        REALLY creepy if you think about it.

      • ImNoCissie Says:

        Oh, yes, I think the same, Im so extremely skeptical about these quotes that supposedly come from these kids.

        One article about Spack claimed an 18 month old “insisted on wearing boy’s underwear”. Uh, underwear for 18 month olds is most likely diapers, maybe training pants, which are identical for both sexes except perhaps color or print. So the baby liked blue instead of pink, that meant she had gender dysphoria!

        This is atrocious parenting coupled with medical malpractice. To think a single mom let her kid play in the park alone and was arrested, meanwhile this guy is giving Ted talks and the Jazz family are celebrities.

        Here’s another incredible Jazz quote:

        “Her parents first decided to seek advice from a pediatrician when she was two years old, after she asked: ‘Mommy, when’s the good fairy going to come with her magic wand and change, you know, my genitalia?'”

        He said “genitalia” at age 2. Amazing.

      • ImNoCissie Says:

        And I forgot to add…that was yet another instance of Spack focusing on thes children’s choice of underwear.

        I dont even believe that anecdote happened, except in his warped imagination.

      • lin Says:

        @ImNoCissie Jazz also was pleading for breast augmentation when he was like 11. “I want boobs,” he said with a sly smile. I realize there are a lot of preteen girls who do yearn for boobs, but when I was developing at that age it was my worst nightmare. Thank goodness the doctor nixed the idea, saying that it was normal enough to be flat at that age.

        I don’t know if it was Jazz but one of these “supportive” parents said it all made sense now why the baby boy was always unsnapping his onesie: He was a she and wanted to wear a dress. The complete lack of logic is mind-boggling.

      • kesher Says:

        I’ve heard stories of young boys trying to mutilate their own penises or cut them off. They weren’t articulating what they wanted in such sophisticated terms, of course. A young boy saying “I want a vagina” strikes me as absurd.

        Although, in the more credible examples, it seems as though there’s something akin to phantom limb syndrome, something that convinces the mind that there’s something wrong with the body. That indicates a real problem aside from boy likes girl things/girl likes boy things.

        I’m still unconvinced that transitioning and SRS are the best treatments possible for that condition however. Were the boy trying to mutilate or cut off any other part of his body, the medical establishment would not be giving him a helping hand.


      • I wonder – does NO one of the parents gets suspicious about Spack? I would be alarmed when a doctor talks about childrens underwear in such a great lengt.

        Also even in the unlikely event that an eight year old boy said “he wants a vagina” – parents with common sense would have told him that this isn’t possible. Surgery can’t create a real vagina out of male sexual organs.


      • Right. You would think of an appropriate way to respond wouldn’t you, IF a child ever said that. “We’re all special in our own way, there’s no need to covet what other people have”
        It’s not kids who think in terms of penis and vagina, it’s adults, most often men. When a child looks at an animal they know it’s going to be either male or female. I just can’t imagine them believing a male animal could magically transform into a female animal. Kids are saner than that. They’re getting this madness from the adults around them, there’s no doubt about that.

    • WTF Is This Nonsense? Says:

      I guess it’s possible that, like amputee identity disorder, they feel that something doesn’t belong, but we can’t actually replace that with anything useful. It’s just sterilization and superficial cosmetic surgery. How about thinking “I’d rather be something else, but it’s just not happening. Oh well. I’m just a boy that likes pink glitter.”
      Probably hundreds of millions of people would like to be something they’re not, and will never become. That’s just life.


  32. The only sick people here are the people posting comments.

    • GallusMag Says:

      meaning what exactly.

      Hey Fiona- you are from South Africa (Her comment avatar links directly to her LinkedIn).

      ( http://www.linkedin.com/pub/fiona-wallace/13/a6/869 )

      Are you aware of the history of the South African “Aversion Project” which forced homosexuals to have sex changes to “cure” them of being gay? This was going on until the late 1980’s. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Are you commenting here in your official capacity as spokesperson for “Coza Cares”? Does the “Coza Cares” organization and its corporate funders support the sterilization and medical experimentation upon gender-nonconforming children?

    • Teal Deer Says:

      How is it sick to disapprove of children being sterilized, crippled, and experimented on? Please explain, how is it sick to be outraged that children’s bodies are being mutilated and their lives twisted about over not conforming to gender stereotypes? Do you have an explanation, or did you just come in here to drop a steamer and then leave?

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      So exactly what about the points we’ve raised do you find “sick”, Fiona? The fact that we’re worried about what’s being done to children in the name of profit and glory? The short-sightedness of it all? How young lesbians and gay boys are being told think they’re “trans” instead? Or how about what MtT are doing to lesbian culture? (Many, but certainly not all, of the commenters here are lesbian, and are seeing this firsthand.) What has you aflutter?


    • Of course the comments are the problem. Not the people who want to sterilize gender nonconforming children.

    • druidwinter Says:

      The sexualization of children by these men are sick.
      Children are not sexually mature until they are teens, even then, they need to mature a few years before they are ready for the responsibilities of a relationship.

      B4U ACT is the newest pedophile rights group that is mostly made up of men, and men that identify as ‘female pedophiles’

      They are following right behind ‘trans’ for legalization
      and
      they stole the trans move and even claim their identity.. All the sexualization of children by both groups of these men well harm many children- like Rotterdam it isn’t happening here with physical scars as well.

      Thats right, pedos -trans are claiming to be the most marginalized of the LBGTQ+P, and have a much higher suicide rate then just being trans alone, and they want to acess 8 yearolds like trans, or they will kill themselves. They are not going to go for just the trans identity that gets them naked in the door with naked children, they are letting it known they want the right to access people’s children for sexual means and women are denying their right to exist by not letting them access to their children. The vocabulary is right out of trans logic as to why many of these guys abandon their own children to chase this 24/7 sex life- but are so interested in peoples’ children: Why you have the right to force your personal fetish and 24/7 sex-play on the general population of women and young mothers with children in tow.

      That is sick. Don’t support the pedophlia direction that attached to transactivism.


  33. Commenting purely in my personal capacity.
    Aversion Project was utterly abhorrent.


    • Yet, despite evidence that most gender non-conforming children grow up to be homosexual adults, you still advocate for their sterilisation.

      Let me ask you something then Fiona.

      How does one “identify” as the other sex?

      What does that even mean?

      Are you saying that their are thoughts and behaviours that are intrinsic to women?

      Do you not realise how disgusting and ridiculous that is?

      Women share anatomy and oppression due to anatomy.

      The assumption that you (inadvertently) propose (“Women have womanly brains”) is sexist and belongs in the 1950’s and earlier.

      That particular assumption can be seen all throughout history as part of our oppression.

      I.e “Women can’t be strong because they have soft girly brains”

      How dare you come here and say we are disgusting when you wish to classify half the species (women) by the whims of some from the other half (men).

      Just because a few men wish to be included with our group because they have a mental illness and/or are afraid of other men does not mean we have to kowtow to them.

      Women do not exist to serve, coddle and capitulate to men.

      We are people.

    • Tobysgirl Says:

      So the Aversion Project was abhorrent, but giving children what are basically poisons — do some reading about Lupron — is just okay in your view? Surgeries performed on healthy children’s bodies are just okay in your view? Somehow this doesn’t surprise me coming from a white South African.

      • Farmerjane Says:

        @Tobysgirl: “doesn’t surprise me coming from a white South African”. As a white South African who is outraged at hormone and surgical ‘treatment’ of healthy children, I am offended by your comment. Do we have White South African Brain which automatically makes us approve of medical experimentation and mutilation of children, or are you just racist, xenophobic or ignorant? in case you haven’t noticed, ‘transkids’ isn’t a South African phenomenon and such practises would be considered unethical here.

      • Tobysgirl Says:

        Farmerjane, I have had some contact with white South Africans and their deep racism and ignorance is offensive to ME. A comment regarding white South Africans cannot be racist because racism = prejudice + power (of which I have none). I am glad to know that you find this mutilation of children horrifying, but it would be nice to know that you understand the use of the word racist. And perhaps those practices are considered unethical when used on children now, but apparently they weren’t considered unethical when used on homosexuals in the very recent past.

  34. Black Metal Valkyrie Says:

    ICSI puts babies at higher risk of deformities. It’s a bad idea, if an egg rejects all the sperm it’s because they are not fit for reproduction. It is very invasive to force the sperm into the egg. I don’t want to compare it to rape because that would be trivializing but I’m sure there’s a better word for it I can’t think of right now. Exploitative maybe? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-187163/IVF-injection-doubles-birth-defects.html


  35. Thank you all for your responses. Yes, I probably did ‘drop a steamer’ (love that term) and leave, mainly because of time constraints. I usually walk on by when I find comments disturbing. I didn’t this time. Silly me. But the responses and the assumptions in those responses have been very enlightening and clarifying of your views, so thank you once again.

    • GallusMag Says:

      And you skirt them all and drop another steamer.

      So, Fiona is it the Lesbians or the Mothers commenting here that you are diagnosing? Do you serve Lesbian and Parent populations in your capacity as CEO of “Coza Cares”? Do you believe the Lesbians, Gays, and Mothers served by “Coza Cares” are also “sick”? In what way are they “sick” exactly?

      I don’t expect you will actually answer, because abusers and trolls such as yourself seldom do, as you have illustrated here.


    • What must have “disturbed” you (strong word) here was the thought of healthy children being operated on. Am I right?

      Because that is what’s disturbing the rest of us.

      But you said you found the comments disturbing. That might be because you know what Dr. Spack and his ilk are doing is undefensible. If you are an advocate of medicalizing children with healthy bodies then seeing the horror expressed by people at what you’re doing might feel like ‘disturbance’. But it’s not. What you’re experiencing as you read the comments here is that feeling of being caught out doing something you shouldn’t be, the feeling of realizing you’re on the wrong side.

    • Teal Deer Says:

      Yes, yes, you’ve stomped your foot, harrumphed, and flung insults, all without making any meaningful statements. You do know it’s not customary to use your real name when you’re trolling, right?

    • Tobysgirl Says:

      Why is it that people such as Fiona never answer the questions posed to them? They are willing to label commenters as sick but do not have the capacity to defend their criticism. If I called ANYONE online sick, including people who patently are mentally ill, I would feel compelled to defend my judgment. Otherwise, I would keep my bloody fucking mouth shut.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      “The assumptions in those responses.” No, honey, we’re living it. Also, almost all of us here have been following the trans trend for quite some time now, and know of what we speak.

  36. Me Says:

    To sterilize a healthy child or teen before they have completed their cognitive and emotional development is nothing short of child abuse and should be illegal. It reminds me strongly of the sterilization of “undesirables” back in the 1920s and 30s and I hope that one day, sooner, rather than later, it is consigned to the dustbin of history.

    And the one doctor who compared this to the sterilization that sometimes comes with cancer treatments? God, I want to smack that guy around — Cancer is a life-threatening illness, non-conformity to sex roles is not.


    • The surgeons get around it by saying suicide is life threatening, therefore by operating on these children they are preventing suicide and saving lives.
      What a mind fuck. They’re they’re causing physical harm to healthy bodies. All surgeons have to do is NOT CAUSE UNECESSARY HARM to a body that does not need medical treatment.
      Suicidal thoughts should be dealt with by the right people i.e PSYCHIATRISTS. Give them valium or prozac or whatever they usually give women who feel suicidal. Why are surgeons behaving like unqualified psychiatrists. Spack says he wants gender dysphoria taken out of the DSM (a psychiatric manual) . This is so he doesn’t have to face the fact he’s experimenting on people with psychological problems.
      Added to that, surgery doesn’t stop these people from feeling suicidal anyway. Unsurprisingly, a physical treatment for a psychiatricn problem does absolutely nothing for the patient’s state of mind.

      • Me Says:

        An ethical doctor does not treat mental illness by enabling the symptoms. I can’t think of any other type of mental illness where they give the ban-daid “cure” of enabling.

        I wonder if there are any competent psychiatrists out there who actually treat the real problem, rather than enabling mental illness? Wouldn’t the real psychological problem be body dysmorphic disorder, where the person hates their own body and does not see it realistically. I think this diagnosis is generally given to anorexics, but it seems to apply equally well to those who refuse to accept the reality of their sex.

      • Miep Says:

        The impression I get is that persistent GID copresents with other psychological disorders that are difficult and time-consuming to treat successfully, if at all. Somatic treatments are consistent with patriarchal medicinal practices, and SRS is a kind of horrible logical extension of the common practice of treating all psychological distress with drugs. And if the patient reports satisfaction with SRS ( and they often do), an unethical doc can try to pass this off as a cure, even when the patient is still deeply disturbed.

      • WordWoman Says:

        Ok, so people also commit suicide when they lose their jobs, either laid-off or fired. This is a known fact. By logical extension, then, that those who fire them are killing them and no one should ever lose a job that they want to keep. The ones who own companies, even small ones that may be prone to go under, should be forbidden to lay off employees even if they have lost all their business and are no longer making money. Perhaps along with government funded/subsidized medical treatments for people who aren’t physically ill, the governments need to fund and subsidize these employers.

        Or what about students who flunk out of college? Or get bad grades and lose their scholarships? They are also at risk for suicide. Should their teachers give them A’s because otherwise they may kill themselves. If they lose their scholarships should that be subsidized because they might otherwise kill themselves? Or failure to get a role for an actor. Or the end of a relationship. And on to infinity. Life happening, in other words.

        Suicide is caused by psychological things like depression. So when someone kills themselves after having a bad thing happen to them, or a series of bad things, we assume they were depressed. We grieve them if we are close to them.

        Life is filled with problems. In previous generations this was expected and meeting those problems what seen as building character. We should treat depression, of course. Help people meet the challenges that face them. But not try to make everything rainbow-filled unicorn happiness. That’s just silly.

      • GallusMag Says:

        There really isn’t a lot of data about transgender suicide rates. Which is revealing in itself. Because the trans movement is quite interested in politicizing the suicidality of trans people, while at the same time doing NO organizing whatsoever into lobbying for further study or data, much less setting up support systems. Quite to the contrary, recently a trans activist tried to organize to set up some programming to combat trans suicides and they were roundly banned from popular trans discussion forums for their efforts.

        http://retransition.org/2014/09/youve-been-banned/#sthash.tIleZ7Bt.dpbs

        Which is horrifying.

        The transgender victims of violence- Black and brown homosexual males who are prostituted by other males- are similarly politicized by the trans movement while literally NOTHING is being done to actually support the victimized demographic by the movement.

        It is quite striking.

        That being said, back to trans suicide rates, even if we take the inflated, politicized rates of trans suicide that the movement is pushing at face value, these rates are completely in line with other demographics: for example those diagnosed bipolar, those who suffer from bulimia, those who are schizophrenic, etc.

  37. gg Says:

    It’s well known that the medical profession has historically attempted to “cure” gender non-conformity and homosexuality in ways that most people now recognize were misguided and abhorrent. It mystifies me that people see the current “treatment” of these children as something new and progressive. A parent is concerned that a child wants the wrong toys and the wrong haircut and hauls her off to a psychiatrist/endocrinologist/”medical expert.” How is this parent different from the parents of decades past who brought kids with the same “symptoms” in for the medical treatments of the day: shock aversion therapy, hospitalization, psychoanalysis, conversion therapy? Nothing has changed except that the treatments have become more drastic and the children younger!

  38. New Reader Says:

    Has anyone researched the background of Kathryn Mathis, the mother of Coy Mathis? She is definitely a Munchausen’s by proxy case and an enormous attention whore. This woman has five kids and every single one of them were “special needs” except for Coy, whom she described on a mother’s forum a few years ago as “our only neurotypical child”–nothing about him being “transgender.” Then suddenly, she found a way to make Coy a “special needs” child as well.

    No one was interested in her when she was just the mom of several mentally handicapped children, because autism and mental disabilities are s-o-o-o old hat. But trans is cool, trans is happening, trans is good at pushing product to the mindless consumerist sheeple, and that was Kathryn Mathis’s ticket to the big time of talk show appearances, lecture circuits and book sales.

    She is sickening, and Coy will probably grow up to be another Ed Gein. The way she cuddled him throughout that Katie Couric interview was creepy as hell–a seven-year-old being cuddled as if he were an infant! .

  39. river Says:

    The body language in the pic is quite revealing isn’t it? That boy is not used to being mauled, the way girls are, the way he’d better get used to. That’s part of the transgender FtT process isn’t it. Your body isn’t yours anymore, you’re a girl now.

  40. anon Says:

    I don’t buy the eugenics angle. Too much conspiracy crap. The only agenda these sex change doctors have is making more money.

    I think you’re anthropomorphizing. You see everything in terms of politics and agendas and what will advance your people, whether that be lesbians, women, etc. Is it so hard to imagine that even with all their medical training, the men responsible for all this are just simple animals at heart? They’re just trying to get more resources for themselves with no conception of the wider picture.

    • kesher Says:

      It’s possible to cause a eugenics outcome even if that isn’t the goal.

      Take sterilization of poor people as an example. A government that takes such an action may be doing it to reduce the cost of the welfare state or to reduce behaviors associated with poverty (such as crime) and not have the specific goal of eliminating poor people or minorities, but the effect is the same.

      It’s also important to note that doctors are extremely wary of sterilizing adults who want to be sterilized due to ethics concerns and fear of lawsuits, but these quacks are thinking nothing of sterilizing children. Why does greed outweigh ethics in these cases and not others?


  41. So what about the transgender couples that have not undergone reassignment surgery and want to reproduce with their own genetics? If this goes forward then that isn’t possible when they want to start their own family.
    I just want to get your opinion on whether or not this issue should be taken into account? Do you think that this is right?


  42. […] of all I think of the children who are, today in 2014, being sterilized because of people’s blind faith in gender […]


  43. […] and just start the kids on hormones immediately, even at age 12. Other vicious child abusers like Dr. Sherman Leis and Dr. Michelle Forcier, who will get the sex-change party started as soon as the kids are 16. An […]

  44. 4thwavenow Says:

    Reblogged this on 4thWaveNow and commented:
    This is a powerful post from September 2014 from GenderTrender. I am not a big reblogger, but every one of my readers should read this in its entirety–including the excellent comment section. Gender specialists are sterilizing prepubescent children. This isn’t something that is going to happen in the future. It is happening right now.

    From one of the excellent comments on the piece:

    Please keep in mind that this is being done to PHYSICALLY HEALTHY CHILDREN. They are ADMITTING that they are STERILIZING CHILDREN. It’s a human rights abuse on its face. As to these medical procedures to preserve fertility, there is no guarantee that any of these technologies will work. They know they are intentionally rendering healthy children infertile, and then they turn around and say, “Well, there might be ways to preserve fertility”. What happens if the parents don’t choose to use any of these technologies, or simply don’t have the money. The GnRH agonists are expensive, and if there is added lab work and other procedures, it’s going to get very expensive.

    Children do not have the mental capacity to make informed decisions. There is a reason why we don’t let teenagers vote, buy alcohol, fly jet planes, or take out bank loans. The prefrontal cortex of the brain isn’t fully developed until the early to mid twenties.

    The prefrontal cortex, the part of the frontal lobes lying just behind the forehead, is often referred to as the “CEO of the brain.” This brain region is responsible for cognitive analysis and abstract thought, and the moderation of “correct” behavior in social situations. The prefrontal cortex takes in information from all of the senses and orchestrates thoughts and actions to achieve specific goals. This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations.

    “In the practice of fertility preservation for cancer, some insurance companies will provide coverage and some will not. Whether or not they will extrapolate coverage for fertility preservation for cancer patients to transgender individuals has not yet been determined.”

    Otherwise physically healthy children are being intentionally rendered infertile based on a questionable psychological diagnosis.

    Deliberate delaying a normal part of human development, adolescence, because of what basically amounts to a questionable psychiatric diagnosis in healthy children assumes all the following:

    (a.) The diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” is correct to being with, and there isn’t something else going on in the child’s life.

    (b.) The child is completely free from any parental, peer, or cultural influences. How much is “gender dysphoria” in a 12 year old child, and how do we separate this from everything the parents read on transgender websites and blogs? How much is actual “gender dysphoria” or GID and how much is parental discomfort at having a child that doesn’t fit neatly into sex based gender roles?

    (c.) Children have the mental capacity to decide or choose for themselves.

    It’s a scientific fact that the pre-frontal cortex of the human brain which is sometimes called the judgment center of the brain isn’t fully developed until the early to mid-twenties.

  45. kaypasser Says:

    creepiest of creepy doctors – the surgeons absolutely freak me out.. imagine! routinely destroying healthy functional organs and just tossing them in the bin like so much trash…. for non medical reasons.. it beggars belief… good god.. when will the scales fall from peoples eyes so they can see this for what it is – legitimised noncery of the worst possible kind.?


  46. […] drugs and just start the kids on hormones immediately, even at age 12. Other scumbags like Dr. Sherman Leis and Dr. Michelle Forcier, who will get the sex-change party started as soon as the kids are 16. An […]


  47. […] incorrectly stated a child must begin puberty in order to undertake fertility preservation. Ovarian and testicular tissue can be stored for potential future use without the child having commenced […]

    • againstvaw Says:

      How would that work? Harvest ovarian (?) and testicular tissue that has not undergone puberty, reimplant tissue in owner’s body when required and flood body with hormones matching the body to bring about sexual maturing?

      Or implant tissue elsewhere? I

      I’d be very grateful if anyone can explain how harvesting pre-pubertal tissue will bring about future fertility.

      • GallusMag Says:

        It won’t. Damien Riggs the transgender female (F2T) phd in social work who authored the article cited my piece in an effort to lie and misrepresent the future fertility prospects of sterilized transgender children. The researchers in my piece clearly state that ovarian fragments from sterilized female children whose puberty has been permanently blocked MAY ONE DAY be used to create a viable egg by replacing the fragment with material in a viable egg. This experimentation is currently being done IN MICE.

        So “maybe some day” technology will allow fragments of ovarian tissue from sterilized girls to be moulded into something viable. The author, Damien Riggs, herself a testosterone-injecting genderist, cited the piece as ‘evidence’ that children aren’t really being sterilized by the treatments she wants them to undergo. Damien Riggs is a liar who falsifies data and lacks all ethics.

      • GallusMag Says:

        “….reimplant tissue in owner’s body when required and flood body with hormones matching the body to bring about sexual maturing?”

        No the reproductive systems in these kids become too atrophied to ever mature. If (IF!) an egg could be injected with ovarian fragments to create a viable human egg it would be implanted in another female host.

      • carterabbie Says:

        And even if that were possible, can you imagine the cost? Having undergone a few rounds of fertility treatment myself I can tell you IVF itself is a crapshoot and that’s without having to recreate whole reproductive systems. And regular IVF starts at about $10k per round, and usually takes several rounds to get a viable pregnancy if at all. This is absolute madness and so unnecessary.

      • kesher Says:

        If science comes up with a viable option here and genderists demand it as “necessary health care”, I’m going to flip my shit. Taxpayers should not have to pay to correct someone willingly sterilizing themselves. And undoubtedly this procedure would be prohibitively expensive.


  48. But it’s not just the reproductive systems that atrophy – it’s also the genitals. For males- I guess srs will not working as expected. Not enough tissue and so on. Females will have problems too since the vagina changes during puberty. But not in an healthy way if they get injected with testosterone before maturing.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Testosterone use in adult females results in clitoral enlargement and thinning of the walls of the vagina and uterus which can result in all sorts of complications including increased risk of bowel perforation during hysterectomy. Some FTMs insert estrogen cream into their vaginas to try to minimize complications. There is no data that I’m aware of regarding outcomes in girls whose reproductive systems have been stunted hormonally before maturity. There is also no data that I’m aware of regarding the syndrome of ovarian/uterine/abdominal pain and cramping that commonly occurs in adult FTMs who inject testosterone: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/virginia-soave/the-pain-that-most-transm_b_11283858.html

      How any of this will play out in kids is anyone’s guess.


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