Let Children Be Children- Without Jamming Them Into Gender Roles

April 9, 2015

(Photo: BBC) Louis Theroux with "transgender" boy and his parents

(Photo: BBC) Louis Theroux with “transgender” boy and his parents

From Samantha Rea at the Huffington Post:

“As a tween, I was self-conscious about developing. Even now, the word makes me wince. I stopped going swimming at around the age of 11. I didn’t like it, I said. I pulled out of Brownie camp, insisting, “I just don’t want to go.” The truth was, I’d heard you had to wash in a big bin, in front of each other. I was excruciatingly self-conscious about my body, about my breasts. And if you’re imagining I had anything to stop traffic, the answer is no. I was around a bra size 30A.

I wanted to slice off my breasts with a bacon slicer. I didn’t know what a bacon slicer was, but I imagined it would slice off breasts pretty well. Fortunately, I made it through puberty with my breasts intact, but had my parents been less no-nonsense, had they heard of transgender children and had we been living in America today, I might have been given a mastectomy.

Sound far fetched? In Louis Theroux’s documentary, Transgender Kids shown at the weekend, we actually see the mastectomy scars on a teenager. “There’s a little bit of redness,” says Theroux, diplomatically, as we look at the glaring, red scars across the child’s chest. Amaya’s “top only dysphoria” became an issue around the age of 11 or 12 when developing caused, “a little bit of an anxiety issue… in terms of going out in public… the way other people were perceiving me.” This sounds like a normal reaction to developing. You don’t fix awkwardness with an operation.

We meet other children on the programme. Camille, born Sebastian, is a five-year-old who repeatedly uses the word transgender. I wondered – along with many others on Twitter – how a five-year-old had come to use this word. We see Camille in a tiara, applying lipstick and wearing a dress to school. Theroux asks dad Eduardo if perhaps, rather than needing to transition, Camille is still exploring. Eduardo says no, “I don’t think there’s any more exploring.”

We’re introduced to Catch, a 36-year-old female to male transgender, at an appointment to discuss phalloplasty. Catch talks about being at primary school and wanting to wee standing up. We meet Cole, sometimes Crystal, whose friends know what to call him depending on, “what clothes I’m wearing that day, like if I want to wear these kind of clothes I’m a girl, if I wear those kind of clothes I’m a boy.” He says that as Cole, he does: “more things a boy can do.”

As a feminist with a background in gender studies, I believe that gender is culturally constructed – that we need to break down gender stereotypes, rather than reinforce them. This means we need to stop segregating activities, clothes, toys and colours according to gender. Instead of dressing girls in pink and boys in blue, we need to throw away the rule book and, “rid the world of gender rules and regulations.”

Click HERE to read more.

[image added by me-GM]

59 Responses to “Let Children Be Children- Without Jamming Them Into Gender Roles”

  1. GallusMag Says:

    Louis Theroux produced an entire one hour “documentary” on transgender children without EVER ONCE mentioning SEXISM or HOMOSEXUALITY. Truly incredible.

    • Juliana D Says:

      Shame on you, Louis Theroux. I watched many of your early documentaries, where you showed compassion for your subjects and tried to look at all sides… but then you do this doc with no mention of sexism, misogyny or homophobia.

      What a damn shame.

  2. QS Says:

    Did you see the obvious disappointment in Cole’s mother when Louis told her that Cole said he wanted to be a man when he grew up? That looked to me like a mixture of Munchhausen’s by proxy and Cole not wanting to be the only male in the house Luckily for him, his father is sensible.

    Sebastian’s parents came across as well meaning but dim people who have been sucked in by the trans agenda. Gender dysphoria in an 18 month old? Really?!? That’s a boy who likes pretty dresses and sparkly things but has been told he can’t have them because he’s a boy – the obvious solution in a small child’s brain is that if they are a girl then they can have the things they want.

    NIck is obviously an effeminate gay boy. That one looks like homophobia from his parents. He seemed really upset that people at school were calling him a fag, my guess is that he’s heard that sort of language at home growing up. Letting him watch a documentary of transgender kids seems like the parents telling him that while they wouldn’t accept a gay son they’d be fine with him being transgender.

    • No name Says:

      This is my observation too, transition is being sold to homophobic parents. So much shame is put on being gay,

      As much as gay rights have progressed, they have not moved forward, there is a backlash. It is obvious that ‘transgender’ is being used as conversion therapy to fix gay people, by using gender roles. It is the same strategy Iran wishes to follow accomplish getting rid of gay people, and sterilizing them as not to produce more gay people.. Transgendering is a treatment for homosexuals which sterilizes them before adulthood.

      When I watched the Tur interview, one thing he said that stuck with me was that he came out as gay after transition. He was incorrect to assume that some trans just switch sexual orientation after transition. There is such toxic programing about being homosexual, he could not bring himself to be gay as a ‘man’, but under gender roles, he can claim his womanly self is attracted to other men..Same thing with Mock and why he considers actual women ‘fish’. ‘Woman-costume’ is a means to live a gay lifestyle in a socially acceptable straight way.

      With Chaz, now liking guys, I could attribute that to the gay female community out west rejecting bi women in the gay community[The gay personals in the 1990s often included, ‘no bi’ girls or ‘Lesbian prefered’ because of the guys with bi’s looking for three somes. In the 1990s, many bi girls, would hush up about being bi when they left the man at home for woman’s get togethers over this. It could be the realization that gay men don’t get booed’ at a dance contest, and there is that hope of gaining rights like effeminate gay men.

      Trans is sexist and homophobic at it’s core. There is self hate and shame like any other BID.

      • Em Says:

        I was telling someone about this Iranian practice. He said, “Oh, so they’re castrating gay men.”

        Bingo. These surgeries are so brutal and disfiguring. Whatever else is going on, the practice stinks of vindictiveness and the desire to punish..

  3. GallusMag Says:

    Wow! Finn Mackay. Who knew? Nailed it:

    Minute 11:00
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05pqskg

    Here’s the late transitioning autogynephile that Finn is debating:

  4. kesher Says:

    I’m sure HuffPo commenters are currently tearing Rea apart. You do not question the trans agenda over there.

    • Double X Marks The Spot Says:

      So far they are not. I wonder if the culture is different over at HuffPo UK.

      • kesher Says:

        Interesting. With all the no-platforming going on in the UK in the name of the trans agenda, it’s my impression that Brits don’t pull as many punches when criticizing something they think is ridiculous. American sites like HuffPo suffer from the American liberal malaise of never, ever saying anything “mean” about a supposedly marginalized group.

  5. Em Says:

    In this photo, the adults are dressed sensibly, but the boy is all tarted up. Do the parents think he’s a Barbie doll?

    • Loup-loup garou Says:

      The pose bugs me more than the outfit. (Well, that and the fact that he appears to be wearing make-up. That used to be strictly for teenagers.)

      A lot of girls his age are into the whole Disney princess/ballerina look, but — in my observation — they don’t strike sexualized poses like the one in the photo unless they’re coached. Mostly they just wander around in their frilly skirts looking at bugs and plants like any other kid.

      I can see a boy thinking, “Hey, those skirts are kind of cool, maybe I should get one, too,” but I don’t think he’d pick up “come hither” body language just from hanging around a bunch of girls. So yes, I wonder what the hell his parents are thinking.

      • Ben X Says:

        I was put off by the pose as well. I don’t know in what sense you meant coached, but kids don’t need adults to egg them on one bit. I was a child of the Spice age, and lots and lots of very young girls spent every available moment imitating the Spice Girls together in every way possible. If you pointed a camera at them, they would automatically strike a sexualized pose exactly like the boy in this picture, something they had and studied and absorbed from Spice Girls publicity materials. My mother had to explain to me at the time why it made adults nervous (I was a little boy).

      • australopithecene Says:

        Spot on remark. As the mother of little girls, who have many little girls as friends – that pose is just weird.

      • Em Says:

        Yes, I noticed the hipshot stance, too. Look at how his mother is standing. The boy’s stance is a parody of his mother’s. Look at their matching grins, too.

        This is some sick shit.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Mom is doing the SAME THING. Omg that’s some Honey Boo-Boo shit right there.

      • Oak and Ash Says:

        I had the same reaction to the pose. His facial expression and stance remind me of images of little girls in beauty pageants [rant on subject omitted].
        (https://www.google.com/search?q=beauty+pageants+5-year-old+images&client=firefox-a&hs=NPK&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1359&bih=1022&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=1g0oVab2IuXIsQSVt4CABw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg)

        Poor Sebastian. If left alone by the gender police, he might just grow up to be a stylist or designer, or even a guy who went through skirt and hairbow stage. These cases always make me wonder if the parents prefer a daughter over a son who could be seen as defective in the eyes of society. Or maybe they want fame and hope for income from a reality show.

        Funny, but when I was child I used to wonder why everything boys did was considered more noteworthy than when girls did the same things. I never imagined that “everything” would one day include “being a girl.”

    • gunhild Says:

      Yes, look at the pose he is standing in. “Sexy” female model pose. A strong theme among the transtrenders is that female = being pretty and sexy only, even children.

      • morag99 Says:

        “Yes, look at the pose he is standing in.”

        Didn’t Angelina Jolie once stand just that way on the red carpet? It’s that hand-on-hip and hip-thrust-out pose, which I think is sometimes referred to in modelling as “broken.” That is, women look sexy when their bodies appear to be pained, unnatural and askew. Little girls learn this very early on; apparently so do little boys who have learned that they are “really” girls. Kids might strike these poses as a joke, but it isn’t a joke: grown-up Angelina, for instance, was quite serious.

      • WTF Is This Nonsense? Says:

        Same pose as Josh Alcorn, and Dr. Frank N. Furter in Rocky Horror Picture Show.

    • GallusMag Says:

      In the documentary when Theroux asked that kid ‘Do you know why we wanted to put you in our television show?’ the kid said “Transgender! I get everything!” lolol.

  6. Lauren Says:

    It’s refreshing to see on HuffPo a fairly reasonable article regarding the trans cult instead of one written by someone eating of the tranny hand. Samantha Rea, thank you.

    I haven’t seen the documentary ‘Transgender Kids’, but just reading about a young girl having a completely unnecessary mastectomy before she’s had a chance to fully develop and learn her body (perhaps even learn to accept, like or love her body like the rest of us) has me very upset. I cannot imagine any sane medical professional stating the surgery was medically necessary, and I it’s very disturbing knowing there are surgeons who would operate needlessly on a child in this way. There needs to global ban on these ‘gender affirming’ surgeries for people under age 18. How many studies have indicated that we’re not fully mentally developed even in our early 20s? How many times has neuroscience told us that our entire perception of ourselves and the world around us tends to shift, sometimes dramatically, in our early to mid 20s? And yet here we are witnessing these defenceless children getting cut on by the trans-cult-affirming branch of the patriarchal medical establishment. It’s sick.

    I have also heard some of these parents comparing their children to gays & lesbians since we tend to know we’re gay before we reach puberty. I know things were a little different when I was growing up, but all I really knew until just after my family got internet for the first time was that I didn’t like boys in the ways I was being told to(either directly by my family or indirectly through observation of typical boy-girl dynamic), and that I really liked other girls in what seemed to me like the ways I was supposed to like boys. The internet, or more specifically a Yahoo search for ‘girls who like other girls’, led to me finding my lesbian label.

    One of the downsides of our world today is that these children no longer have to really hunt their own labels or define themselves. They’re having these labels stamped on them automatically when they display traits that are ‘abnormal’ to their given sex role. I am so thankful to have mostly grown up before this madness really got started. When I was a little girl an aerial view of the toy aisles or kids clothing sections wouldn’t have looked like pink and blue sick blobbed all over the place. I had educational toys that were mostly neutral colours, board and video games that were marketed to whole families, and the only toys I really had that were truly ‘girly’ were my dolls which I didn’t even like.

    I’m way off topic now I think so I’ll stop after a final thought. If we didn’t have such rigid sex roles forced on kids today with the pink v. blue war that’s going on I sincerely doubt we’d be seeing a documentary called ‘transgender kids’. We really need to roll back the clock on this insanity.

    • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

      It’s utterly shocking to me that a child of twelve is (rightfully) not considered mature enough to vote–when one single vote is generally meaningless in the grand scheme of things, if you know what I mean–or have a bank account or credit cards, but these gender kooks will allow that same child to mutilate him/herself in ways that will have serious lifelong effects. Lifelong effects that the child isn’t even capable of understanding the seriousness of!

      I remember when I was twelve or thirteen seeing a friend of mine crying, and I asked her what was wrong. She said she’d just learned that she had some errors in her plumbing, basically (not the phrase she used) that meant she might never be able to have children. And I remember thinking, “What’s so bad about that? She never has to worry about birth control! Who wants a baby anyway?” The idea that one day I would change my mind and want babies (at the time I regarded them as faintly disgusting nuisances) seemed ridiculous.

      I cannot imagine what I would have done if someone had offered me permanent sterilization at that age. I might well have taken it, because in my immature twelve-year-old mind, it sounded awesome: sex seemed like something everyone loved to do and wanted to do, and the big consequence was pregnancy, and here was the chance to have a lifetime of worry-free fun.

      They can’t vote or walk to the store by themselves without their parents getting busted by CPS, but we’ll totally let them disfigure themselves for life.

  7. Loup-loup garou Says:

    May I suggest a non-neurological reason as to why most peoples’ perceptions of themselves and the world tends to change a lot in their early to mid 20s? In the industrialized world, this is usually the first time you’re out on your own without any kind of buffer zone. Ideas you may have formed during your teens, even very logical ones, get tested and in some cases thrown out as unworkable. Then you turn thirty, and if you’ve settled down or at least have a steady job, you think you’ve got it all figured out. Then you turn forty, and start to think your teenaged ideas weren’t so dumb after all — you just hadn’t figured out the right way to implement them.

    I happen to think the word “development” is kind of creepy when applied to young people, especially girls. Ever notice how you almost never hear about adolescent boys “developing” physically? It’s always girls who “develop,” and term always has vaguely sexual connotations. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could just call it “growing up?”

    • Lauren Says:

      I agree about the creepiness of the term ‘development’. We had a creepy male neighbour, probably in his 50s, when I was growing up whom my dad almost killed when he overheard him speaking to another male neighbour about me. He said something like ‘that girl sure has developed nicely,’ followed by ‘she’s got legs that go all the way up.’ I was 14. My mother explained to me the cause of the fight between them, the meanings of what had been said, and after that I wasn’t allowed to leave the house in shorts or skirts shorter than knee length–not that I had been dressing promiscuously before either. All of my clothes had been approved by my parents.

  8. VC Says:

    “Camille” may be just four years old, but she has already figured out how to manipulate her parents into letting her have the clothing and the toys she likes. There is a photo of Camille/Sebastian with Louis Theroux that struck me as oddly familiar – where had I seen that odd expression on a kids face before? Why, on Jazz Jennings, of course – the eyes a bit too wide, the teeth bared in more of a rictus than an actual smile, the coy head tilt. As a commenter on one site noted, real girls just don’t act that relentlessly girlie girl. They don’t have to.

    Poor Nikki seems to be a gay boy who can’t accept his sexuality, like that teen girl with the double mastectomy. (How is that even legal, amputating healthy tissue from a minor’s body? Why didn’t any of the medical professionals at the hospital go to court to stop it – what happened to “First, do no harm”?) There are no words for Minerva and his ‘girlfriend’ Tristan. Don’t they own a mirror? Apparently nobody told Minerva that it literally takes balls for a penis to function properly. His eagerness to have them whacked off is mind-boggling.

    But poor Cole – here’s an intelligent, charming, lively boy stuck with a mental case for a mother, who seems to be using him to extract revenge against her ex, even to the point of psychologically castrating his, and her, only son. The wrong family member is being treated here.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Omg Nikki! Can you imagine what a pretty gay boy he would be if he went off the ‘mones? He would spend the rest of his life trying to beat off the interested gay men with a stick! Instead, he will struggle and suffer, and all because of “gender medicine.” And he seems to know it! Can you imagine if we forced kids to decide if they were gay or straight at the age of 12? And gave them operations and changed their names and documentation? In order to prevent them from appearing visibly gay? Holy shit! Oh wait- that’s what we’re doing! Except these boys never do “pass” no matter how young they are “treated”. Look at Jackie Green, one of Norman Spack’s earliest experiments who had SRS in Thailand at the age of 16. He doesn’t pass any better than any other M2T.

      And “There are no words for Minerva and his ‘girlfriend’ Tristan.” LOL it was so funny when Minerva said Kristan was his girlfriend and Theroux immediately asked ‘have you had any operations?’ LOL. What, no pretending he “passes”?

      • Juliana D Says:

        Wow, gallus, I hadn’t even thought of that. Imagine if we let children decide if they were gay or straight from a very young age, like, say, two to 11. People would be up in arms over such a thing, yet somehow young children can choose their “gender” at these ages, and go onto a lifetime of drugs and surgeries.

        I am trying to imagine a couple saying, “Yes, we knew our son was gay at eighteen months old.” Or, “We knew our daughter was a lesbian at five.”

        Would never happen. (Or could, but it wouldn’t be in the MSM.)

        This is truly about homophobia and misogyny, but the “left” can’t see it. But why? It is so obvious! Let’s sterilize a bunch of gender nonconforming children, just in case…. cuz a few of them might be GAY! And they might reproduce and make GAY kids! OMG!!1!

        This is some eugenics shit, straight up.

      • dbrvnk Says:

        Parents often do know their kids are gay at a pretty early age, or at least strongly suspect it. But being gay doesn’t require you to take incredibly dangerous drugs like lupron at an early age to have any hope of being attractive to the same sex so I’m not sure there’s much ground for comparison.

        (Also, in ~75% of cases or something ridiculous like that, childhood gender dysphoria went away with puberty. You know what lupron does? BLOCKS PUBERTY. A+ logicking tranz doctors)

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        “We knew he was gay at eighteen months old, because he was fascinated by the disco ball in our garage.”

        It’s rightfully seen as insulting to say such a thing, but it’s okay to say “We knew our son was transgender at eighteen months old because he loved his pink blanket.”

    • I'm No Cissie Says:

      The early mastectomy is just insane. How is this different from giving an anorexic teen gastric bypass or liposuction?

  9. emmajune Says:

    Transsexuality is genocide of gays and lesbians. Transexuality is genocide of all children who don’t conform to sex stereotypes.

    Here’s the question implicitly being presented to parent of children who don’t relentlessly conform to sex stereotypes: Would you rather have a dyke or boy? Would you rather have a fag or a girl?

    • Bea Says:

      It’s also the genocide of feminism. All these young lesbian and gender non-conforming women would be thriving if they had access to real feminism, not the wholesale pimping out of women’s bodies that is being sold as feminism now. I even saw a young woman who decided she was actually a man (pre-op, pre-hormones) ask to join the MRAs because she thought they were fighting for her interests. Many of them disagreed that she belonged in their group. Even MRAs have a better understanding of “female does not equal stereotypes” than the “feminist” PoMo Gendershits whose misogynist philosophy convinced her she belonged there to begin with.

      • emmajune Says:

        Feminism can die AFAIC.

      • Stop Surgical Abuse Says:

        I’ve seen MRA’s openly cheer on transgender activists because they (correctly) see them as anti-woman.

      • kesher Says:

        There are MTTs who are openly MRAs (vs. most who make arguments that might as well come from MRAs but who like to pose as trans “feminists”). Paul Elam is buddies with at least one of them.

  10. Bea Says:

    Another mentally ill “trans” teenager, Taylor Alesena, commits suicide. They keep saying it’s not a mental illness, and it continues to go untreated. These kids think that dressing up and taking hormones is going to cure their depression, and they don’t get the help they need. You’re spot on, Gallus. Ghouls. They want to make it illegal to tell a child they are mentally ill if that mental illness includes crossdressing. But it’s perfectly okay to perform conversion therapy on a gay or lesbian youth.
    http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/transgender-teen-who-fought-bullying-commits-suicide-20150410

    • Bea Says:

      Oh, and surprise surprise, the media is once again misleading the public into believing the suicide was because of society’s lack of acceptance for transgender instead of the truth, which is that transgender feelings are merely one symptom of an overarching mental illness that often drives sufferers to suicide in spite of their circumstances.

      • kesher Says:

        Having supportive family and friends I’m sure reduces the likelihood of a teenager committing suicide, but the fact is that kids in otherwise healthy and happy families still suffer from depression and commit suicide. Depression doesn’t go away just because it’s “supposed to”. This is one reason why I refuse to demonize people who commit suicide; the other side of this is the people who think suicides are “selfish”. But I also won’t attack the parents of a suicided trans or gay kid, not unless I know for a fact that the home situation was objectively abusive. Taking access to the internet away is not abuse.

      • Stop Surgical Abuse Says:

        True. It’s telling that suicides rates actually increase a few years after an SRS surgery. “Transition” doesn’t fix mental illness, and once the post-surgery honeymoon period ends, the person is looking at a lifetime of regret.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        “transgender feelings are merely one symptom of an overarching mental illness that often drives sufferers to suicide in spite of their circumstances”

        Thank you for this, Bea. And I agree with you, kesher, about suicide. My nephew, 23, committed suicide because he was mentally ill, completely under my sister’s thumb, and saw no other way out. You and I can see he had many options; he saw none. A friend committed suicide in the same time period, and I understood her doing so. She had been struggling with mental illness for years and she was exhausted. I totally understand committing suicide due to years of mental and/or physical pain that one no longer has the strength to deal with.

    • Smits Says:

      And the media will never, ever bring up either the very real phenomenon of suicide contagion (which is only exacerbated by lurid media coverage of trans teen suicides and their lionisation as martyrs by both their peers and older trans people who really ought to know better), or the fact that one of the very first things kids are told online when they first express that they think they are trans is that they have to transition RIGHT AWAY or they will absolutely kill themselves sooner rather than later.

      I was a depressed and suicidal teenager and god damn I was impressionable as all hell. I was totally convinced that I wasn’t really ill and that I was just seeing the reality of the world that no-one else could. If that “reality” had included “I’m really a man but every day I spend not injecting testosterone is destroying my ability to ever pass as one”, and had been constantly reinforced by the internet, it would have fucked me up even worse.

      • GallusMag Says:

        There have already been at least six Alcorn copycats- including the same lame social-justicey suicide notes left on social media, In at least one the identical gruesome and dangerous mode of destruction was used. In his Trans100 Keynote address, wackadoo Lana Wachowski compared Alcorn’s hideous actions to that of a Buddhist monk. Also claiming that all trans people get hit by a truck, Alcorn “just chose to take it all at once”. Sick fucking ghouls. They absolutely WANT these kids to suicide. Their deaths are politically useful to them. At least for the length of a news cycle.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Whoa, Gallus, I didn’t know that about the copycat suicides. And Wachowski saying that is a) breathtakingly abhorrent; and b) absolutely glamorizing suicide to these kids, who don’t understand that death is permanent. I tried to find a transcript of the speech, because I heard it was controversial, but found just trannies arguing about it. They were arguing about racist things Wachowski said. (It was nice to see some of them – only some, mind – finally saying the trans movement is NOT equivalent to the Civil Rights Movement, and that comparison needs to stop. As always, of course they didn’t see the irony in them acknowledging racial appropriation, but not sexual.)

        But not one brought up the romanticization of suicide. And Smits, yes, the older trans ought to know better. Instead, they just encourage the drama and tragedy, leaving devastated families in their wake. Contrary to what they so often accuse us of, we are NOT the ones with blood on our hands.

    • Stop Surgical Abuse Says:

      When I hear “transwomen” talking about bullying, I sometimes wonder if they’re thinking about the voices in their own heads more than words coming from others.

      I have no doubt a trans-teen gets bullied, but I doubt all these middle-aged wealthy men who suddenly discover their “true gender” are getting bullied. Are we supposed to believe their receptionists are yelling “faker!” at them on their way to their corner office? Are their BMWs getting vandalized in the company parking lot?

      Aging autogynephiles who “transition” are usually avoided, not bullied, by people who find them creepy. But they’ll still tell people they’re being victimized by bullying.

      Maybe they think getting victimized by strangers is a hallmark of true womanhood?


      • “Aging autogynephiles who “transition” are usually avoided, not bullied, by people who find them creepy. .”

        Considering how violent and agressive these guys are we can assume that people avoid them.

      • dbrvnk Says:

        The tumblr mtfconfessions gives some good insights about ‘bullying’, I think. Most of them have pretty extreme, untreated depression & self-hatred issues. Which probably is to be expected, but really, you’d think the medical community would be a bit more perceptive of those things… or… y’know *interested in curing them* BEFORE being all like ‘ok cool, here’s 1 vaginoplasty that’ll be $35,000’

        Getting bullied irl is something that only happens to mtfs who are visibly gay/femme pre transition, a result of a thing also known as ‘homophobia’. They’re also, somehow, a lot more well-adjusted than the ones who have never been bullied ever and always fit in perfectly well with the bros. Go figure.

  11. Stop Surgical Abuse Says:

    I was uncomfortable with my breasts from age 11 to age 17, and would undoubtedly have agreed to a mastectomy in the first few years if a child-mutilating “transition” doctor had offered one. It’s horrifying that this is legal.

    Notice that the father of the “trans girl” just had to wear a football-themed T-shirt for the photo? “Hey, I’m all man unlike my not-gay ‘daughter’. I even watch football!”

    Meanwhile, his son looks terribly uncomfortable and can’t even fake the smile well. That poor kid’s life must be hell.

  12. Guls Says:

    I like Theroux’s docs and this one was pretty much what I expected. He’s about as close to an unbiased observer as one is likely to find on mainstream media – which is to say he wears his middle class Jewish liberalism as lightly as ccan be. The doc wasn’t in any way critical never mind radical but he illicited sufficient sincerely-given information for an interested observer to infer their own conclusion. As much as I’d like to see, say Germaine Greer host such a doc I imagine the resultant Twitter storm would engulf any meaningful public discourse. Theroux embodies a quality I recall Dworkin admiring in her father: an ability to listen calmly to even the horrible or incredible, to tacitly grant permission for others to verbalise their truth. I harbor a hope this doc will push a door open a little wider that more critical, intuitive, informed voices may find an ear…

    Call me naïve if you wish.

    • Atranswidow Says:

      Having seen the comments on Theroux’s facebook page along the lines of ‘great documentary, the kids were so sweet’ I’m not so sure.

      Likewise the reviews in the UK press were full of praise for the kids parents. No questioning about the effects of puberty blockers or hormones. I didn’t see any worried reactions to the ‘top surgery’ performed on one of the children, in fact it’s hardly mentioned.

      I haven’t seen the documentary (can’t get BBCiplayer where I live) and I do like what I have seen of Theroux, but this Guardian pre-series interview with him has me a little concerned.
      http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/mar/26/louis-theroux-my-secret-fear-is-that-im-not-helping#comments

      He seemingly says in the interview that he understands the feminist viewpoint on trans because he has read ‘that piece in the New Yorker’ and then goes on to conclude “I think for the first time, if the kid is helped early enough, that he or she ends up completely passing. These early interventions are going to end up changing that whole script, because you’re not going to have people saying that a trans woman still seems like a man to them.”

      The interview concludes with some of his regrets; his Jimmy Saville interview being one of them. It will be interesting to see if this transgender documentary becomes another one in years to come.

      • Guls Says:

        Interesting, I haven’t read much press at all about it. The Savile episode does point up the limitations of his approach doesn’t it. Not that catching criminals was ever part of his remit. Can’t imagine he’d have been able to take a more aggressive stance with a doc about kids any way tho.

      • Em Says:

        ” … if the kid is helped early enough, that he or she ends up completely passing.”

        Ah, there’s our old friend, autogynephilia, this time strongly smelling of homophobia and pedophilia. How can anyone not see that adults who trans kids are using children to enact their own fantasies? I am including here select specimens such as the smarmy couple in the photo that accompanies this post, and the neurotic parents who let slip things like, “Not every little girl has a penis!”

        Don’t these people listen to themselves?

  13. ImNoCissie Says:

    “I think for the first time, if the kid is helped early enough, that he or she ends up completely passing. These early interventions are going to end up changing that whole script, because you’re not going to have people saying that a trans woman still seems like a man to them.”

    Yeah, but things aren’t always what they seem. This just confirms the superficiality of the transgender paradigm. If you look “pretty” and “femmy” enough, then you will have become real.

    No. You still won’t have female reproductive organs, you still won’t have female experience you will have growing-up-as-a-transgender-male experience. Your every cell will still be male, you have male DNA. Even today’s “pretty” trans seem male. We already have young transitioners, although maybe not many who were five. But someone like Nicole Maines who “transitioned” as a kid – he is already college age, an adult. He doesn’t “seem” female to me.


  14. “Your every cell will still be male, you have male DNA.”

    Their male bodies aren’t build for the amounts of artificial hormones they get. Just like female bodies aren’t made for large amounts of T. There will be health consequences PLUS the consequences of the puberty blocking drugs.

    Basically their physical health is ruined. Perhaps also their mental health because we don’t know what holding puberty that long does to the brain. We also know that drugs like Lupron induce brain fog in adults. So what will these drugs do to brains of minors? Nothing good.

    “Nicole Maines who “transitioned” as a kid – he is already college age, an adult. He doesn’t “seem” female to me.”

    He looks totally male. If you look at him from the side you can see that he has a large forehead. While his head is more rounder than his brothers – his face is very masculine.

    I wonder what happend since he looked passable as a kid but then his body cleary began to masulinize. Perhaps he couldn’t take the blockers for long. Maybe because of said health issues?

  15. Me Says:

    I had a son in 1981, at a time when non-sexist child raising was a thing, with the goal of raising children without sex role stereotypes and stressed that personality and personal style was not linked to a a person’s sex. Several good books were written, such as “Free to Be You and Me” and Letty Cottin Pogrebin’s “Growing Up Free: Raising Your Child in the 80s” (used copies are available on Amazon.) Pogrebin took a gender critical stance to what was then referred to as transsexualism, and specifically related it to homophobia. It was (and still is, in my opinion) a great resource for parents wanting to raise non-sexist kids, free to express their own individual personalities. But I doubt if she could get this book published in today’s world, where any alternative to transgenderism is highly censored.

    And I was raised non-sexist as a little kid in the 60s – I was a “tomboy”, who was allowed to be one and my parents didn’t get worked up about it, nor did I ever think that my liking of Tonka trucks meant I was really a little boy (what nonsense!) Rather, I just wanted to be a different kind of a woman than what the stereotypes said I should be.

    Similarly, when I was in college in the late 70s, there were a crap ton of books critical of sex roles, including many college textbooks. And mainstream feminism was mostly gender critical then. (I always say I didn’t leave mainstream feminism – it left me).

    But, nowadays, I never hear about non-sexist child raising any more. I’ve heard of “gender-neutral” child raising, which I think is a different thing entirely, because they totally get it wrong when it comes to “trans kids”.

    And, unlike in my childhood and that of my son, now aged 34, the media is bombarding us with the trans agenda, and about so-called trans kids. Not a day goes by that I don’t see at least four or five articles on Facebook, promoting their agenda. I never see anything the slightest bit gender-critical at all there, except, perhaps, from religious conservatives who think the solution to transgenderism is to cram sex roles even harder down the throats of children, which is just as bad. There was one exception, the other day, on Fox News, of all places, which had two women presenting a non-religious, gender critical feminist response to the brouhaha over Jazz Jennings’ book in the Maine elementary school.

    Taking a look on Amazon, there are several books for children similar to Jazz Jennings’ book, essentially telling kids, “You’re not a tomboy, you’re transgender!!!!”. There are also resources for parents of so-called “trans kids”, all urging confused parents to put their kids on the trans train.

    There are no gender critical resources for well-meaning, but confused and uninformed parents with non-stereotypical children, nor recently- written books for children, telling them that they’re OK just the way they are and don’t need to change. Sheila Jeffreys’ book is a wonderful book, but it is a scholarly book and was not written for mainstream parents in lay terms.

    And that is what is sorely needed right now: Books for children that tell them that they are OK the way they are and that they don’t have to change themselves to be themselves. Similarly, there needs to be resource books (and websites) for confused parents that teach the same message; some general books about non-sexist child raising and others more specifically focused on those with children who express the wish to be a member of the other sex.

    Gallus, do you know if anyone has any plans of writing such books or websites aimed at such parents, who are often apolitical, conservative leaning, and/or not particularly familiar with feminist thought, but really want to do what’s right by their kids? And, also, books aimed at questioning children?

    For me, this is probably one of the most important things gender critical feminists can do – to advocate the idea of letting kids be themselves in the bodies they were born with. To say NO to the social control of permanently removing the reproductive capacity of children who have not completed their cognitive development and cannot make informed decisions about such things. We don’t let kids live independently, get married, vote, serve in the armed forces, and so on, in recognition of the fact that they have yet to complete their cognitive development – why should this be any different? As Sheila Jeffreys’ so aptly pointed out, this is no different from the eugenics movement of 100 years ago that sterilized countless numbers of “undesirables”

    Thanks to anyone who read to the end.🙂


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