National Center for Lesbian Rights and The Task Force both reverse stance on Michfest Boycott

April 10, 2015

NCLR's Kate Kendell

NCLR’s Kate Kendell

Many in the Lesbian community were shocked last year when the National Center for Lesbian Rights, headed by Kate Kendell, announced that the first and only boycott in the history of the org would be against the rights of lesbians to hold private events that exclude males.

The NCLR, formerly a Lesbian Rights organization had, unbeknownst to some, shifted their mission to prioritize the rights of men, particularly wealthy heterosexual males who want to “identify as lesbians”. The Task Force (formerly the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force), headed by Rea Carey, followed suit.

After extended outcry, mockery, and withdrawal of support from the lesbian community Kendell announced this week that NCLR was reversing their stance on the boycott and requesting the name of their org be removed from the petition issued by the head of Michigan Equality, Emily Dievendorf,  a self-described “bisexual rights” activist partnered with a man.

Sara Toce at the Windy City Times quotes Kendell:

 “As you know, last summer NCLR signed the petition sponsored by Equality Michigan calling on the organizers of the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival ( Michfest ) to embrace the presence of transgender women at the iconic gathering. In the wake of our signing, you contacted us to express your disappointment and anger that NCLR would sign a petition which called for a boycott of the festival.

 Many of the letters we received recognized transgender women as women and sisters in struggle, while also arguing that the intention of Michfest does not diminish the lived experience of transgender women.

 Since then, we have been involved in a number of conversations with Michfest womyn, Equality Michigan, transgender leaders and colleagues who signed the petition. These conversations have made clear that there are essential values and perspectives we all share and that the petition was not going to be an effective vehicle for a resolution.

 NCLR has removed our name from the petition and will be actively engaged in conversations in which we honor our differences while also pursuing a conclusion that supports the gender identity and inclusion of all women in Michfest. We have faith that such a resolution is possible.

 This entire process has been one of great learning for me and, while we may disagree on some issues, I think there are many values we share. I signed the petition on behalf of NCLR because our core passion and commitment is that we all be able to live fully and be embraced as our authentic selves.

 We are grounded in some deeply held principles, including the belief that discrimination and bigotry against lesbians is rooted in sexism, misogyny and the devaluation of women. We do not believe it is possible to win liberation for lesbians in a world where misogyny thrives. We also do not believe we can end the oppression of women and lesbians in a world where transgender women are reviled and targeted.

 NCLR has come to a deeper understanding of what Michfest means to our community and seeks to honor that through this process. We also acknowledge the Michfest organizers have been involved in an ongoing conversation over the years on this issue. We are committed to honest and forthright dialogue as a more constructive means for seeking resolution and common ground.

 Sincerely, Kate”

Rea Carey of The Task Force

Rea Carey of The Task Force

Today, I was forwarded an email sent out by Rea Carey of The Task Force. Like Kendell’s it was sent out to women who had written in protest of the boycott. It reads:


Last year, the National LGBTQ Task Force signed onto a petition organized by Equality Michigan which called upon the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival (Michfest) to fully welcome and include transgender women, as women, at the festival.

You took the time to write to me and I appreciate that you did – you and others shared with me your perspectives and experiences on the land that some described as “sacred,” “an annual touchstone,” iconic” and “home.” I heard that you are angry and hurt by the Task Force and other organizations signing the petition. I heard from you and others that Michfest is a truly historic and transformative annual event that has influenced, inspired and helped to liberate millions of womyn/women from the daily trials and tribulations of misogyny and sexism. It holds a very special place in the hearts of lesbians and other womyn/women.

In the months between then and now, I have talked with womyn/women who have attended, womyn/women who would like to attend, and other people who have a variety of views. I’ve talked with our colleagues at Equality Michigan, leaders of other organizations who have been engaged in this, and with transgender women. From these conversations, I have gleaned shared values, differing opinions, and have come to a view that in order to move forward in any type of dialogue we must move beyond the petition.

I am writing to let you know that the Task Force has asked that our name be removed from the Equality Michigan petition and we will be seeking other ways to be in dialogue about Michfest’s intention regarding transgender women. As we reflected on the petition’s contents and read carefully letters from concerned people like you, we came to understand that the point in the original petition that called for a boycott of vendors and performers was misaligned with our own support for womyn/women artists, craftspeople and musicians. Although that point was withdrawn from the petition, we recognize and share the deep concern about the possible economic impact on womyn/women striving every day to make a living through their art, craft and music.

Please know that the Task Force’s view regarding the MichFest intention is rooted in our core value of inclusiveness and the festival’s extraordinary transformative power. For over 40 years, the Task Force has worked for the full inclusion of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer identified people in all areas of our lives – whether it be in the workplace, the government, companies and, yes, in our own community.

The Task Force will remain in active discussion with MichFest womyn/women, Equality Michigan, transgender colleagues, and other organizations that signed the petition. The Task Force is committed to productive discussions in which we honor our differences and also pursue our desire for MichFest to fully welcome the gender identities of all womyn/women at the festival, including transgender women.

For over 40 years, the Task Force has worked for a changed world. A world in which we can all experience liberation. A world in which misogyny cannot thrive. A world in which womyn/women, lesbians, bisexual women and transgender women no longer experience sexism, targeted attacks and the most horrible form of violence – murder. As we intensify our work to take on all of the challenges we face as a movement, know that these values are at the heart of what we do.

With care and in solidarity,

Rumours abound that other Michfest boycott signatories, many of which like NCLR and The Task Force were once (at least tacitly) supportive of Lesbian and Women’s Rights are undergoing similar pressure to reverse what can only be described as an aggressively anti-women, anti-lesbian, stance.

To all lesbians reading this, and to our allies: Please withdraw all support, financial and otherwise, from organizations- especially those who purport to be “LGBT” centric- if those organizations do not explicitly support the rights of lesbians to hold lesbian-only or women-only events.


139 Responses to “National Center for Lesbian Rights and The Task Force both reverse stance on Michfest Boycott”

  1. Loup-loup garou Says:

    I’d like the Task Force to spell out what they mean by “queer-identified” in plain English, and why they think it has anything to do with being lesbian or gay.

  2. hearthrising Says:

    Glad they’re backtracking from the boycott but this is not good enough. They are basically saying, we’re changing our tactics but remain committed to destroying women’s boundaries. No apologies, no commitments to be better, no recognition of women’s rights–just a promise to change tactics. These are organizations committed to changing and invalidating lesbians, not supporting lesbians.

      • river Says:

        It’s still a victory, small, conflicted but a victory.

        Would it be possible to use LSBO, instead of the other acronym? Lesbians, Spinsters, Born Women. (Recently coined by a U.S. radical feminist).

    • Smits Says:

      ^ Definitely. NCLR talking about “seeking resolution” is creepy, because they clearly don’t mean a resolution where men fuck off and leave Michfest alone. They think this is still a conversation, that they pushed a little bit too hard and now they’ll be a bit softer in trying to wear down womens’ boundaries. It’s PUA tactics gone political.

      • Loup-loup garou Says:

        PUA tactics — exactly. I believe it was Gavin de Becker in The Gift of Fear who said “When man says no, it’s considered a complete sentence. When a woman says no, it’s seen as the beginning of a negotiation.”

        (de Becker, I know, I know… A dude who’s made money saying things women have been saying for years, without being heard — but the statement is still accurate.)

    • shediogenes Says:

      It reads like some guy trying to get laid. One approach won’t work? Well try, try again. The Task Force should have a new motto: “Hey, Baby, what’s your sign?”

      • Bev Jo Says:

        Exactly. Love these comments. Lawyer approach. Play games, manipulate, sound reasonable. They will finally stop the pressure when all Lesbians are on our backs for the men to rape or on our knees, worshiping the grotesque men who inist they are women.

        Any political movement which demands Lesbians and women give up our common sense and what could not be more obvious, for the benefit of the most female-hating men, is our enemy. They want the end of real women.

        And this is also all about money and what less they were making from the outrage of Lesbians’ defense of Michigan. I really think they did not expect it. In as much shock as the men who swagger into our communities expecting access to every Lesbian, and not expecting any to say no.

  3. lula333 Says:

    Can’t we have anything? Jeez when will it end.

  4. Lauren Says:

    Wise move by Kate but I will never again support the NCLR as the damage done is too severe. As a lesbian I don’t feel the NCLR truly has my safety or well being in mind when NCLR is till making statements like ‘NCLR Applauds the EEOC’s Decision Ensuring Restroom Access for Transgender Employees’ and Kate is still saying things like ‘We also do not believe we can end the oppression of women and lesbians in a world where transgender women are reviled and targeted.’ To me that reads ‘We also do not believe we can end the oppression of women and lesbians in a world where men in female disguise aren’t free to invade women’s spaces, usurp female and lesbian identity, and demand an all-access pass above the cotton ceiling.’

    To be fair, I’ve never been to Michfest. I’ve never been able to afford it. I’d love to experience it someday and I love the history and what it stands for. I’ve had several friends who’ve gone and loved it. The only way I’ll ever go, assuming I can ever afford it, is if men/trans’women’ are barred from attending. I absolutely would not feel safe being there if I knew there were penis-possessors walking around.

    • Ranll Says:

      You don’t seem to understand transwomen are… people who identify as women. As you identify as lesbian. Why do you spend this much energy fighting against imaginary windmills (lol they are not men in disguise, you are being so ridiculous) when you could include these women in our spaces without any effort at all.

      • GallusMag Says:

        You seem confused. Transwomen are male and therefore disqualified to be female homosexuals. Lesbians are of the female sex. Transwomen partnered with women are by definition heterosexual. As a dog breeder the existence of binary reproductive biology should be acutely clear to you? Yet you spend so much energy running around the internet fighting against Lesbians and demanding we include heterosexual men in our conversations, culture, and lives. Why is that?

  5. silverside Says:

    I think the official responses here are just political spin and crap. I think that in reality they are not seeing the light so much as feeling the heat. Our collective heat. They are responding to the pressure, even if in a wishy-washy way. They are hoping by throwing out a little bone we will stop. This is where we step up the game. Keep up the pressure where it hurts–no membership dues, no financial support, no support of any kind. And keep blogging and communicating and educating women! I am finding that a lot of more or less apolitical lesbian friends of mine, women who tend to be tolerant and accepting as people, are now getting angry at the attacks. And I’m sure a lot of you here are finding the same among your lesbian friends and acquaintances. As Gallus points out, all the rhetoric about “inclusiveness” is just BS. This is the only so-called “GLBT event” they have targeted, and it’s only womyn crafters and musicians who are targeted for economic ruin. Have they ever targeted a group of gay men or trans people with economic sanctions? Have they ever protested that a “GLBT” event is male-only, trans-only, and/or male-trans dominated? Of course not. It’s rank hypocrisy.

    • GallusMag Says:

      I couldn’t agree more with everything you’ve stated here.
      Keep pushing back, women!

    • brackengold Says:

      Is there a national-level group that is in favor of Michfest staying as it is? In your letters to the Task Force and NCLR, I’d point out that your membership dues will now be going to this group, which is in fact supporting lesbians. It’s one thing to say you’re not giving them money anymore, it’s another to say this other group is actually representing you and your needs better.

  6. No name Says:

    Even though there is a clear lack of apology to Michfest from NCLR, I am glad they are no longer participating in destroying Lesbian culture for the sake of a trend of placing the value of a few dysphoric men’s feelings over female oppression.

    It is weird when women can be duped by outside men into destroying their own communities.

    It is sad that NCLR is still spouting trans cult male-born first- worship/solidarity, perhaps this is out of fear?

    Anyway, they should give an apology where the Lesbian feminist community needs it. Men are forever finding ways to divide women. How they can fall for it?

    Women know it is not about inclusion. We already cater to men and their feelings socially as females with good manners, but we are humans that deserve privacy. It is about men demanding access to women at all times and not having even one place left where a female can experience a female world where you don’t have to look over your shoulder to make sure a male is not following you. I hope to attend Mitchfest at some point, and after attending other women-only outings, I have to say, the guys would ruin it for me. I would not even want to drink if there were guys there. Men being there would cause women to not relax and change their plans. Some women would not be able to sleep in a tent with a drunken male voice chattering on just yards away. They would have to be ultra cautious. I would not even go for a walk by myself if men were there, I get that ‘WTF does this guy want from me?’ shared female experience everywhere since 12.

    I must thank Gallus for her blog, this is one of the only places left that addresses male identified bullshit.

    Gallus, you are a remarkable person. Don’t ever change.

  7. davisdykes Says:

    @ silverside,

    “I think the official responses here are just political spin and crap. I think that in reality they are not seeing the light so much as feeling the heat.”

    Spot on!

    The NCLR’s lame letter sounds like a half ass, kind of, but not exactly an apology, while at the same time making sure that people understand that it’s still transgender/men’s interests first.

    The National Center for Lesbian Rights is a transgender/men’s rights organization. They might have started out as an organization that focused on lesbians and women, but that is not the current reality, and it hasn’t been that way for years. In fact, every major LGBT (the L really doesn’t count anymore) is a men’s rights/trans group. Their primary focus is transgender rights, and they don’t care how many women they step on, step over, or ignore in the process.

    Under their drop down menu on Cases and Policy, there isn’t even a category for lesbian. There is, however, “Transgender Law”, “Transgender Youth”, and “Transgender Parents”.

    “NCLR has removed our name from the petition and will be actively engaged in conversations in which we honor our differences while also pursuing a conclusion that supports the gender identity and inclusion of all women in Michfest.”

    Notice how they say, “while also pursuing a conclusion that supports the gender identity and inclusion of all women in Michfest.” With these people, it’s always about transgender. That is, males expecting women to place their needs above our own needs. By “all women”, they mean males.

    (1.) Why is the NCLR even telling women what they can and cannot do on their privately owned land? Frankly, what women do on their private property is no one’s business.

    (2.) Their pathetic attempt to make some kind of apology for their attack on Michigan Women’s Music Festival doesn’t impress me. Do I think they feel any regret or remorse? No, I do not.

    (3.) They have supported every “gender identity” law, including AB1266 that violates the privacy rights of girls and women. Keep in mind that it was two gay men from San Francisco with backing from transgender activists that authored AB1266. The NCLR is actively working to make sure that males have access to women’s restrooms, locker rooms, women’s homeless shelters, etc. How women feel about any of this is irrelevant.

    Every major LGBT (the L really doesn’t count anymore) has actively fought for legislation and policies that directly impacts half of the population. They do this with no regard as to how girls and women feel about males like Carlotta Slodowska in our locker rooms. In fact, they go out of their way to shame and ridicule any woman who complains.

    Equality Michigan even wants to give Planet Fitness a “pat on the back”.

    Or, how teenage girls feel when they are forced to view “her male genitalia” in the women’s locker room.

    (4.) While they went out of their way to attack Michigan Women’s Music Festival, they had no opinion on the “Cotton Ceiling”. Lesbians are branded bigots for not dating transwomen. The NCLR was too busy working on transgender needs and issues to even worry about how lesbians felt about this.

    (5.) The NCLR has no opinion on the death threats against “TERFs”. They have no opinion on the silencing of women’s voices, and the harassment of women.

    Women need to stop giving money to organizations that crap all over women. I wish no harm to transgender identified persons, but women owe transgender activists nothing.

    • kesher Says:

      AB1266 also gives completely non-transitioned trans kids the “right” to play on opposite sex sports teams. So it’s not just that they’re out to violate our privacy. Grievous bodily injury when a male bodyslams a girl on the basketball court is also on the menu.

    • No name Says:

      I find it very disturbing that this org supports protections and legislation for pedos and is sponsoring a bill in Ca to remove transgender children from their parents homes and placed in trans-friendly homes, Wasn’t this what sexoffender Allison wanted?

      Yea, like sex offenders/pimps/disturbed individuals wont jump on harvesting pre-teen and even child victims using this, and all done under the ‘lesbian label by a man calling himself a lesbian while lobbying for pedophile friendly laws.’ The ‘L’ needs to leave the LBGT if fetishistic men want to over run it with their pursuits that all center on men using it to get access to sex. There is a good reason why you don’t put a rape fetishist in charge of a rape crisis center. Lesbians and all women have to make a clear distinction that they are not these men calling themselves lesbians./women.

      • kesher Says:

        I’m sure the foster system won’t be allowed to question why an MTT with intact male genitalia is interested in fostering young trans kids. And what about background checks? Will they be “allowed” to search for criminal activity under the applicant’s “deadname”?

      • GallusMag Says:

        Who needs the foster care system? Adult trans will stalk your kid on Facebook, track down their address and show up at your door:

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        HOLY CRAP Gallus, the story at that link!! I’ll summarize: apparently some 17-year-old girl in Lynchburg, Virginia wrote on Facebook that she was trans and suicidal.

        So this asshole MtT named Fialkowski (who is 25 years of age) takes it upon himself to use the internet to find out where this 17-year-old girl (A MINOR) was living, and go to her house with some “lesbian” named Ramsey from a trans support group, ostensibly to “offer their assistance.” (What that consisted of, Maude only knows.) It’s not clear from the article if this “lesbian” was MtT or not.

        This prompts an argument between the girl and her parents, and she leaves with these two clowns. (Remember, her parents have absolutely no idea who these people are.) These two idiots take the girl to Ramsey’s house to stay!

        Long story short (do check out the link; the story is un-freakin’-believable), Fialkowski ends up being arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. He then sets up a Gofundme page to help pay for his legal fees, where he whines about his “ridiculous bonding amount” of $2500. Considering one usually has to post 10% of the bond to get outta jail, that amounts to a whopping 250 bucks he had to pay. Which I know is a lot of money for a lot of people, but in terms of bond, NO. That is diddly-squat. It is in no way “ridiculous.”

        Fialkowski also whines about how he’s being “personally attacked by the hateful parent of an attending minor.” YOU’RE A DUDE, A TOTAL STRANGER, WHO SHOWED UP AT THIS GIRL’S HOUSE AND CONVINCED HER TO LEAVE WITH YOU. OF FUCKING COURSE HER PARENTS ARE UPSET AND FREAKED OUT that a 25-year-old man with greasy green hair shows up on their doorstep and offers their rebellious teen daughter a place to stay. (For the record: I’ve got nothing against wild-colored hair, but in Lynchburg, VA – one of the most conservative parts of the U.S. – it probably didn’t help the situation any.)

        I…I don’t know what else to say. The whole thing is just too crazy. Fialkowski is damn lucky he’s not being charged with worse. And this, THIS, is the shit that we’re supposed to support as part of the LGBTWTF soup. Fuck Gay Inc., fuck the NCLR.

        Oh yeah, Fialkowski also simpers about how he was “misgendered” after his arrest, and his GoFundMe page has the requisite gigantic selfie, complete with smirk. Dude, some helpful advice: no one wants to see your humongous pores that closely. No one.

      • GallusMag Says:

        He say he was charged with contributing to delinquency of a minor. Who knows what he was actually charged with. The entire article was written from his pov and apparently not fact checked.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        That GoFundMe page has raised over four grand for this wacko. I don’t ever, ever, want to hear again about how poor trannies are – how they’re so unemployed and destitute. Bullshit. They sure seem able to come up with the coin for one of their own well enough.

      • dbrvnk Says:

        I can totally buy that transwomen are ‘poor’ and ‘destitute’ if they spend all their cash on makeup, pretty clothes and other trans’s kickstarters. Instead of, I don’t know, putting money in a savings account like a normal person >.>

      • Zemskull Says:

        The MTTs I have known wore clothes that were outside of their apparent income range. For example, someone who probably made less than $30K annually owned several gowns that were easily $800. Notice I say “owned” rather than “bought,” as I’ve known MTTs who stole.

      • You mentioned the ‘L’ leaving the LGBT equation. This is truly the only way forward. Women must put their proverbial foot down and say enough is enough.

        We’ve been cleaning up men’s messes while they walk all over us since time immemorial and these supposed women-focused groups play right into it.

        ‘Oh they won’t mind cuz women are kind and will care for the delusions of dudes wearing Revlon and false eyelashes. Women are supposed to be tolerant of the precious manfeelz.’

        Fuck that.

        The only thing that seems to be working here is cold hard cash and we all know that this is a man’s game, a man’s system.

        The fact that money is working to produce this half-assed fauxpology frightens me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m as pragmatic as the next person, but it is concerning that the ONLY thing that’s worked is cash, not our voices or needs.

        When we are heard on our own terms without having to starve these people of cash will be the day.

        Now that’s radical.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        That’s a very good point, House Mouse. It was only money that made them listen (sort of kinda a little). Thanks for the reminder.

    • liberalsareinsane Says:

      “We remain dedicated to full inclusion of transgender women at the festival.”

      WHY?? All sane people know “transwomen” are pervy mentally ill men and always will be. They weren’t invited and have no business there. Grow some ovaries.

      • cerulean blue Says:

        So they are dedicating themselves to making sure pigs in wigs get on the guest list of a private party? This is the focus of a well funded nonprofit ostensibly devoted to lesbian and gay issues, and the most critical issue of the day? Do they not understand how private functions work? I.e., if it’s my party, on my private property I can invite whomever the heck I want, and leave out whomever I want. I can imagine 12 year olds the world over taking a page from the Task Force’s playbook: “What do you mean I’m not invited to your sleepover/birthday party/bat mitzvah? Haven’t you heard? Not inviting me is Violence!”

      • kesher Says:

        Also, the official policy of Michfest, unless I’m mistaken, is that they’d prefer MTTs not attend, but there’s no attempt to screen them at the door. This has resulted in MTTs infiltrating, of course, and swinging their ladywangs around, if not literally, certainly figuratively, of course, since these guys don’t have anything resembling sex dysphoria.

        So, it’s not even that Michfest is discriminatory, it’s that Lisa Vogel hasn’t rolled out the red carpet for MTTs. I can’t think of anything that better illustrates the MTT mindset and propensity toward narcissism. Anything less than being worshipped (by *women* of course, not men, they don’t care what men think of them even when it’s men killing them) is discrimination, bigotry, and violence.

  8. michelle Says:

    Both letters have too much weasel wording in them…you can distill it down to “umm, yeah, we didn’t realize this was going to piss off actual women and cause them to curtail their financial contributions…so although we still want money from men, we will remove our name from the petition so that women give us money as well. We just hope you won’t notice that your renewed donations allow us to continue working on behalf of the pigs in wigs.”

    Anyone else read either of them that way?

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      Yes indeed.
      They basically admitted that, even though they withdrew their name from the petition, they won’t let go of Their Mission (to obliterate women’s boundaries, and suck it up women). I don’t think they realised how obvious they were being about it—they did want to assure their trans that they were still ‘working on it’, and try to fool women into thinking the withdrawal meant concession to female-only spaces.

    • shediogenes Says:

      the only problem these orgs have with “identity” is that they have trouble determining whether their funding is coming from Lesbians or transbians, women or men with the laydee-speshulness, so they cant identify who to cater to to ensure continued support of their leadership paychecks. NCLR and the LGBT Task Force, the latest in a chain of MRAs.

  9. Miep Says:

    This all just seems like political maneuvering. I don’t really understand the law, apparently if you hold an event that is open to the public you can be charged with discrimination even if it is a privately owned affair, so there is nothing stopping them from just claiming a women-only event is discrimatory. Anti-discrimination law seems to assume a level playing field and ignore all analysis of who really has the power, and indeed there is a great deal of dishonesty in this culture about power analysis, witness all those dudes who say women have too much power. Thus it is difficult to enact legislation that effectively addresses power imbalances and cannot just backfire. What gets enforced and what doesn’t seems also to some extent cultural whim, and the trans-identified have done a bang up job of selling themselves as victims, and also women are a lot more nervous about crashing male-only affairs than the other way around.

    However it does seem likely that some of the bad press male transgenders, especially these well-off white late transitioners and the violent criminals, have been getting has had enough of an effect that people are starting to rethink this and distance themselves a bit, and that does matter, it matters a great deal.

    • GallusMag Says:

      It DOES matter, and it’s taken a shit-ton of work to get to this point and we’ve a shit-ton more to do. Keep it up!

    • kesher Says:

      As far as I know, nothing is keeping women from having women-only events as long as a municipality or state hasn’t shredded sex-based protections by introducing “gender” protections. Michigan doesn’t even have a non-discrimination law for gays and lesbians, let alone one for trans.

      Employment and housing protections are one thing, but owning a women-only spa or a women-only gym and, presumably, holding a women-only event are permissible under most laws I know of. Sex segregation is a significant exception to many non-discrimination statutes.

    • GallusMag Says:

      The “male lesbians” have so far over-stepped, for so long, they have absolutely no idea what is coming. “B.b.but we’ve been stomping all over dykes for years! What the hell happened?” LOLOLOLOLlolololololLOLOLOLOLinfinity

      • morag99 Says:

        (I get your joke, but, aahh … it was nice of you to post a Carpenters song. Karen’s contralto is so close and dreamy. Sigh.)

        “B.b.but we’ve been stomping all over dykes for years! What the hell happened?”

        Exactly. All abusers are this way. They react to any resistance or push-back on the part of their targets with surprise, and experience their target’s defence as offence — i.e., as if they were the victims. That’s the whole trans dynamic, actually, in a nutshell.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Indeed. Look at this abusive heterosexual male pig “Jenny” Boylan. Disgusting homophobe and chauvinist and manipulative abuser:

      • GallusMag Says:

        “Ow Ow Ow You’re hurting me, President Obama”- is that how laydees do it, “jenny”? GROSS MAN.

    • GallusMag Says:


    • dbrvnk Says:


      I’d’ve thought nclr & the task force would have enough experience here to know that ‘compromises’ just piss everyone off. Go full terf or full twanzinsanity, but don’t try to have it both ways.

      The trans social media backlash is pretty much exactly like this kind of thing:
      (unsurprising since most of the trans activists are straight white boys in drag)

      (I have no idea why trannies and their allies are so obsessed with Michfest. Like, make your own music festival, jeez.)

      • Miep Says:

        They are obsessed with MichFest because all female space must be violated. That is what is driving all of this. MichFest is high profile and much loved, it’s an obvious target.

      • kesher Says:

        If anything this move feels very institutional, on the same level with HRC’s politicking. No one’s going to be happy with this, but middle-of-the-road compromises never make anyone happy, but are usually the only measures that actually last, especially in the U.S.

        Where they’re making a mistake, though, is in thinking that the trans cult will settle for compromises. They want nothing less than total capitulation. They’ll only “settle” for less than that after everyone else finally, thankfully disowns them and tells them to shut the fuck up.

      • liberalsareinsane Says:

        It wouldn’t be as much fun for them to start their own thing. They wouldn’t be pissing anybody off or have the pleasure of intimidating women. Worst of all, the place would be full of *yikes* TRANNIES like them. Eeeekkkk.

      • adrik Says:

        I think they think that it’s a lesbian paradise.. Obviously male thinking.. They don’t realise the importance of a safe healing place…I dropped my sis(14) and my gf(25) at the festival last year.. I.could not imagine thinking these persons like allison woolbert in the festival would be safe

      • Bea Says:

        It’s one of the few events left in America denying men their genderfeelz identities on a large scale. I think they believe if MichFest capitulated, they would finally be women! LOL.

        I just recently saw a MtT talking about how hard it is to get a group of them together without a fistfight ensuing. If Voz thinks it’s too dangerous to be around women because he’s more attractive than them, he must be projecting how he feels around women more attractive than him.

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      LOL, the turnin’ worm – so hilarious. I don’t want to laugh too hard about people who can be so vicious and spiteful. But still. LOL.

    • Bea Says:

      Is Amy Dentata implying that womyn aren’t real people? I’m very confused by his comment.

  10. Before they decide to give any money to these organizations, women have a right to know what the National Center for Lesbian Rights and the “Task Force” have been doing.

    This is a press release from the National Center for Lesbian Rights celebrating the passage of AB1266. This article clearly states that, “…. the bill is backed by a coalition of leading organizations, including National Center for Lesbian Rights…”

    Two gay men, Tom Ammiano and Mark Leno authored AB1266.

    I’m sure the NCLR never even read AB1266 before deciding to support it. Or, they did, and they don’t care. This is the real AB1266.

    Not only does it shred the privacy rights of female students, it craps all over the hard work and accomplishments of second wave feminists. AB1266 amends Section 221.5 of the Education Code that was historically designed to address discrimination based on sex. They shamelessly shred the privacy rights of female students by amending the section of educational code that deals with sex discrimination.

    California law already prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. No one wants transgender identified students bullied. There are legal remedies and mechanisms in place to address teasing and bullying of transgender students. AB1266 doesn’t even address bullying, teasing, harassment, or discrimination per se. It only deals with access to sex-segregated facilities based on “gender identity” which, by the way, isn’t clearly defined other than how a student identifies at any particular point in time.

    This is AB1266.

    (f) A pupil shall be permitted to participate in sex-segregated school programs and activities, including athletic teams and competitions, and use facilities consistent with his or her gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on the pupil’s records.

    * AB1266 is only thirty-seven words of poorly crafted legislation. There are no guidelines, rules, or standards put in place. It’s a poorly written one size fits all approach to a complex and deeply divisive issue.
    * Under AB1266, no documentation is required. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. No letter from a therapist saying gender identity is a persistent and deeply held belief is needed.
    * A student doesn’t even have to tell his or her parents.
    * Apparently, students can self-identity at any time. Also, nothing would prevent a student from switching gender identification, or going back to identifying with the sex they were born into. This does occur, and it’s always a possibility.

    The way that they weasel around this is both shocking and deeply disturbing. There is no “sex segregated” anything in California schools. Read the entire section. Section 221. 5 (a.) through (e.) covers everything from classes to vocational training and career counseling. What sex-segregated school programs and activities are they talking about? The only sex-segregated things left that (a.) through (e.) doesn’t cover are restrooms and locker rooms because these are assumed to be segregated based on sex.

    I don’t know how individual school districts are handling it, but under state law supported by the NCLR, no documentation of any kind stating that “gender identity” is long standing and genuinely felt is required.

    As to Michigan Women’s Music Festival, knowing full well how divisive and mean-spirited their actions were, why did it take them seven months to get around to making an apology?

    • Freya Says:

      Please read the letters again, Skylark. Where in the texts of those letters did you see any apologies?

      I believe you’re reading something into those letters that just isn’t there in either. I see a change in strategy to “honest and forthright dialogue” and “productive discussions in which we honor our differences and also pursue our desire for MichFest to fully welcome the gender identities of all womyn/women at the festival, including transgender women.”

      I know I said it in a different comment, but I’ll say it again — there’s an action plan that involves a trans group of some sort in the works, I bet. It’s going to be nuanced in some unexpected way. This doesn’t make sense otherwise.

  11. Deborah Peifer Says:

    It really is time for us to get the L out of GBT.

  12. Freya Says:

    Call me skeptical, but I’m doubting this was done to satisfy gender critical folk at all — the two organizations are angering their inclusivity constituency and not fully satisfying their gender critical constituency. That doesn’t make sense to me at all.

    I smell tactics and strategy at work here. I’ll bet that they’re coordinating behind the scenes with a trans group. I so feel that a new strategy is in the works here to apply pressure in a new way, and these two letters are just the first two volleys in a new strategy that’s unfolding.

    I’m so betting volley three is going to come from a trans group, and I’m so betting it’ll be a pretty cleverly laid trap.

  13. shediogenes Says:

    I can’t imagine the people who started these organizations years ago had an easy go of it. They didn’t put so much time and effort into building them because they thought what they were doing was going to win them popularity points. Is there no legacy left in the Task Force or NCLR? I find it hard to believe the founders of NCLR were unfamiliar with Second Wave Feminist analysis. To call upon Lesbians to support these institutions with our hard earned money while they treat our concerns and safety of our very bodies with such disdain is disgraceful. Both letters refer to the years they have been ‘working with’ Michfest organizers over this issue, and I know it has been said before, but it bears repeating, in all those years, transgendered people have had plenty of opportunity to create their own ‘iconic’ and ‘transformative’ events. So I’m left wondering, what would make the Festival transformative for transgendered males? They’ve already transformed themselves. Their transformations are sooo difficult, sssoooo fraught with struggle, with pain, such a testament to their enduring spirits, longing to be free, that they need, NEED, desperately, to attend a music festival and parade their ladypeen around womyn and girls?

    I would have to drink a lot of tranz koolaid to find the deep, almost spiritual transformative power in spray painting an erection across the kitchen tent, or vandalizing shower facilities for disabled womyn, or talking about spanking their ladymeat in a workshop for vulnerable womyn.

    Only men find that kind of destructive disgusting behavior “transformative”

    I will not be giving my hard earned pay to organizations that have given up what is right for what is popular.

    Next time I have a little extra to go around and want to make a donation to someplace that stands up for me, for other women, and for Lesbians, I will make a donation to Gallus Mag and help support this blog.

    Thanks for all you do GM.

    • shediogenes Says:

      … check your donations.

    • No name Says:

      Is there any org calling it self lesbian -that is not putting men in dresses first in the BGTsexclub4men?

      Disappointing How lost these women are:

      Men are not oppressed for their biology like women. A man getting an operation will not be treated like a female, once it is discovered he is a man. .

      And it is a catch 22, these men demand to be treated like a ‘woman’ [which in reality is being treated 2nd class] and they say that it is tranny fluffs&Mens’ pink underwear frills that are being hated on instead of the fact other men wish to kill the woman-part of them.

      The most normal ones, that are closeted gay men afraid to pursue men as a man [that pass], make that mistake if they spend time as sexworkers: They just call themselves women, and make a policy not to let the john go downstairs on them, [if no bottom surgery]: However, being mistaken for actual women, when the john tries to rape them as women and find a penis, they kill them for lying about being female when they pursued sex. Killing for not being female is based on- Male on female-violence, not tranny violence. The guy would have raped the woman that refused bottom sex- and beat her up in normalized male on female violence, or killed her as well for refusing bottom sex like the gay man pretending to be a woman.. That is prostitute violence men have normalized that is ongoing., not tranny-hating. All females in the sex industry are subject to that kind of male violence.The johns could care less about tranny -dick, they want to rape p*ssy badly, and another man has fooled them. You angered them? You die like a female in the sex industry.

      Guys that still have their dick, not wanting to be discovered will put up a fight to prevent another guy from discovering it, if they are hooking & advertising as ‘women'[the john thinks they are raping a female-business as usual- men treated this way feel the violation right away, put up a fight against the other male and many are killed this way in male on female violence with a man mistaken for female, tries to prevent his dick being discovered, or the angered sexually frustrated john, kills the female impersonator that is forced to die like a female in male sexual violence.

      This is just violence directed at females by men. These men are being treated like females, and they don’t like it. Their mistake was to blame women for this, and cry the world hates penis-dressed -in-pink instead of other violent men that sexualize ‘females’ like themselves.

      • Kitty Says:

        As an actual born woman, I have always found it strange that trans activists use “but they get raped” as an excuse to allow these men into women’s spaces. They simply must come hide with the women, because the men are a huge threat to them (despite the fact that many of them are older males who have spent their lives calmly interacting with other males in male only spaces).

        They wanted to be women, women get raped a lot, so logically they are just being treated the way women are treated. I don’t understand why they try to blame women for what is obviously a male created and perpetuated problem of sexual assault being so common.

        Also, I was actually raped in a public bathroom by a male stranger, so the amount of tolerance I have for someone saying I’m an idiot and a bigot for being wary of men in women’s restrooms is NONE. That is my biggest beef with trans-activism.

        I really am against anyone having to experience violence, but stomping on my right to be wary of men when I am vulnerable is taking this shit too far. It is idiotic to lay down your own safety for the feelings of strangers and this is what women are being encouraged to do by the very people who are supposed to have our interests at heart. It’s really a shame.

  14. australopithecene Says:

    Lesbians are asking for their money back, and trans take and don’t give. That’s my guess.

  15. Zoopath Says:

    Are there any lesbian organizations not operating in bad faith?

  16. liberalsareinsane Says:

    I’m surprised she managed to take the cock out of her yap long enough to write that shit. Her – “the TASK FORCE” – yammering away that everything about women is up for debate and “discussion” and that “transwomen” are women makes her sound completely insane.

    Are Kendall or Carey even homosexual?? They should be embarrassed of how stupid they are.

  17. toppdyke Says:

    Another men’s right group posing as a lesbian rights group no wonder they want men posing as lesbians to fly in our face. That’s all they are about nowadays. I went to a women with pride event at the local GLBT center by me only to face women on t & trannies inviting me to some toy party to celebrate Trans awareness which worshiping the penis & going to a sex party with men wasn’t what I went there for as a lesbian i left running as we should from anyone who wants to invade our space.

  18. Ashland Avenue Says:

    When in my life I finally had money to donate, I scoped out NCLR. I looked at their docket and was shocked and dismayed to see what they did with their money – i.e., defending men. They are a charade. They care about women about as much as Bill O’Reilly. (He’s an uber-conservative pundit, for those of you outside the U.S.)

    As others here have noted, that letter from Kendell is chock full o’ weasel language. Then there’s this: “We also do not believe we can end the oppression of women and lesbians in a world where transgender women are reviled and targeted.” Tell me again what the fuck one has to do with the other? In my mind, Kendell may as well have written “We also do not believe we can end the oppression of women and lesbians in a world where Jar Jar Binks is reviled and targeted.” Same amount of commonality there, Kate.

  19. CKDexterHaven Says:

    Can we all take a moment to appreciate that poor, oppressed Aunty Sarah Brown has flown business class to attend a sailing course in Gibraltar but is not having the perfect holiday –

    ‘Sarah Brown ‏@auntysarah Apr 10

    Everyone keeps calling me Sir. 😦

    I think it’s a Southern European thing: I read as abnormally tall to be female.’

    Nope, you have just holidayed outside the transbubble where people do not know they have to pander to your delusions by pretending they think you are a woman.

    I’m guessing, by the lack of abuse and threats, that the people calling Aunty Sarah ‘sir’ are male or that he is caught in some sort of nightmarish social justice warrior paroxysm of wanting to denounce transphobia but not wanting to come across as xenophobic or culturally insensitive, or something like that. Oh, the dilemma! From now on the poor flower will have to holiday in places where the trans thought police have already got to people.

    • Jane (the first) Says:

      And one more moment if you need a laugh after NCLR’s duplicity:

      The mind boggles:

      I feel no compunction in laughing at his delusion, considering this is the dude who said (with full libfem complicity) that females should all be raped so they’d know what transwomen go through. Really.

    • Jane (the first) Says:

      And on topic, some comical butthurt from one of the usual suspects over the NCLR statement:

      How is it more legit to center your entirely subjective genderfeels as a political identity? Why do you think you are free to define yourself over arbitrary bullshit but others aren’t allowed to define themselves over something more concrete?

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        That guy uses the name dentata? Really? And we’re supposed to take him seriously? And his comment doesn’t even make sense. Good grief.

      • Mortadella Says:

        Errr, would they also ask a civil rights activist why they are so focused on skin color? Probably.
        They’re pretending to be marginalized people and want to be validated for it. The actual victims of patriarchy and racism? Eh, who cares? It’s more important that society helps them get off for being gender hobbyists. Fucked up.

      • Bea Says:

        Well, considering my genitalia is what marks me as rapeable and impregnable…yeah…I guess that does have a pretty big influence on my politics.

        That said, it’s only dudes who immediately think of genitalia and sex acts when people bring up gays and lesbians.

      • shediogenes Says:

        This is the foundation of transgender activist philosophy? Pointing out what they think is wrong with GLB politics? Not that I think his argument has any merit, it is a reversal designed to serve his own purposes, that purpose being tranz are always right, anyone who disagrees is always wrong, but smearing your closest political allies, on whose coattails you’ve been riding, whose organizing and political power you’ve hijacked, seems really stupid. Unless of course you think your minority community has gained enough power to go it alone, like any parasite whose grown large enough to move onto the next host.

        OK, goodbye, you’ve taken enough from us as it is, I’m sure you’ll be able to stand on your own 2 feet. Time for the L the G and the B to recover from the vampirism, be it separately or together (I vote sparately for most endeavors), feel free to take the handmaidens and their free labor services with when you go.

        How did GLB ever get hoodwinked by this low level dumbassery?

  20. Bev Jo Says:

    Thank you SO MUCH for this, Gallus Mag. I love the videos and all the other comments.

    It was many years ago now that Kate Kendell chose a female impersonator over a dear Lesbian friend who had just become a lawyer to help Lesbians because she was “too separatist” for NCLR. So nothing Lesbian-hating Kendell does surprises me. Still, trying to destroy Michigan is going to the heart of our last bastion of female-only space.

    I’m surprised that there are enough women protesting to get this change, but the mindfuck in their statements are clear since it’s all about money and status, as so many women said here in their wonderful comments. These organizations put men first because they worship men and because men have money.

    They know that men posing as Lesbians are not Lesbians. It could not be clearer. Men can never be women. Even reading the gaslighting references to “transwomen” is nauseating.

    If NCLR truly cared about the “inclusion” of all women, they would not continuing promoting segregation based on class and race and age and disability with their outrageously expensive events. Living in the same area as NCLR, it’s clear what their priorities are. Very few Lesbians can afford their $100 + prices for dances and other events. Most of the Lesbians I know are wondering how they will survive when their rent is doubled yet again next month. Kendell and Carey, etc. know this, just as they know that most of the more privileged men (trannies) are so rich they have no trouble keeping up with the rising costs.

    Knowing how politics in San Francisco work, don’t be surprised if Kendell or Carey end up in politics here.

  21. Wendy L Says:

    This is really weird. Task Force makes this statement, and the trans still angry!
    I want the trans women to fuck off.

  22. DaveSquirrel Says:

    From the Task Force letter:
    The Task Force will remain in active discussion with MichFest womyn/women, Equality Michigan, transgender colleagues, and other organizations that signed the petition. The Task Force is committed to productive discussions in which we honor our differences and also pursue our desire for MichFest to fully welcome the gender identities of all womyn/women at the festival, including transgender women.

    This basically admits, point blank, that they are pretending to have dialogue with both parties, but in realty what they mean (taken from Gallas’ criminality rate post):
    “We have to acknowledge that we have largely achieved our successes by flying under the radar”, (then) Transgender Law Center Director Masen Davis stated eighteen months ago, “It is a secret at Transgender Law Center and I’ll ‘come out’ today. We do a lot, really quietly. We have made some of our biggest gains: that nobody has noticed. We are very quiet and thoughtful about what we do, because we want to make sure we have the win more than we want to have the publicity. And that has been largely effective. We’re not the only one, and many organizations have done this, and we’ve been able to get a lot done. But I need to tell you that the days of doing things quietly are coming to an end. It is time to get ready for a close-up, folks.”

    Bear in mind, they are not fully out in the open yet. There is still a lot of stealthy shit going on, and that is what Task Force want to access, a nice, quiet, no-publicity but making sure they have the win.

  23. shediogenes Says:

    we continue to “pursue a conclusion” blah blah blah that includes…. In other words, there will be no conclusion that doesnt open Fest up to men with speshul jenduh feelz. You see that sisters? There will be no conclusion without inclusion of men in our few spaces. At no point do these letters questions the underlying doctrine defined by MEN, that excluding men from womyn only spaces is bigotry. Even their short term drawdown still uses language reinforcing the assumption that we are the bigots. This is what has become of our institutions under liberal/queer politics. Institutions purporting to be Lesbian centered justice organizations that can START with an assumption of Women and Lesbians being in the wrong.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Any individual or institution that is against the rights of lesbians and other women to meet in women-only spaces are pushing corrective rape, pushing rape culture, full stop. Not just ignoring corrective rape and rape culture, mind, but pushing it, actively.

      They are actively pushing the idea that humans born female have no human rights or status whatsoever ON THAT BASIS.

      Irish folks can hold private gatherings limited to Irish folks: but not if those folks are FEMALE.

      Individuals in recovery from addictions can hold private gatherings on that basis: but not if those individuals are FEMALE.

      People can have private clubs for cycling: but not if those people are FEMALE.

      Religious believers can hold meeting closed to non-believers: but not if they are FEMALE.

      The fact of being FEMALE is the very basis of denying our human rights. That is what NCLR, the Task Force, the HRC, etc. and the male chauvinist pig transgender movement as a whole is pushing: Blatant, disgusting pro-rape woman-hatred and the dehumanization of all female human beings. Unconscionable and unforgivable.


      • No name Says:

        I agree and stand with you on this.

        It is disgusting that men want to be first in lesbian orgs. If you brought up the possibility of men controlling Lesbian orgs, and promoting men’s access to sex with children and females in public behind them 20 years ago, no one would have believed you.

      • branjor Says:

        I also agree and will never give in!

      • KgSch Says:

        Yes exactly! They do deny our rights based on use being female, and then being a lesbian means you get a whole extra metric ton of hate because these dudes are obsessed with us. They want lesbians to validate their fake female/lesbian identity by letting them fuck us, but any woman who willingly has sex with one of them is by definition NOT a lesbian. Their cotton ceiling garbage is just the tip of the iceberg and they promote corrective rape. They are men and they are terrorists.

        Other marginalized groups have their own spaces, so why can’t women/lesbians? Also, I will say other marginalized groups have names for the group members who betray them, so let’s just start calling these two women what they are: cowards, traitors, and back-stabbers. They only stopped their campaign briefly because they want money. Don’t give them any money! If I donate money to anything that is for helping lesbians, it would be to this website.

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      You know they are reading this. They read GallusMag (NCLR). What to do, what to do…NCLR kind of reminds me of Susan G. Comen Foundation and the big stink they had there…anytime women get something going, conservatives want to get in there and “harness that energy” for their conservative agenda…they ought to teach a class on that in women’s studies…oh sorry, gender studies.

      • shediogenes Says:

        Susan G. Komen sells pink ribbon bumper stickers that say ‘save the ta-tas’ and ‘save second base’ because apparently in order to get men on board women have to be reduced to male gaze sexualized body parts and rape culture based right of passage bragging rights. they couldnt get men to donate enough with campaigns to save actual human females, women, the whole woman beyond her ‘ta-tas’ even when those are mens mothers, wives and daughters.

      • kesher Says:

        Komen has always been a conservative organization. Its founder is a wealthy Republican. It wouldn’t surprise me if the organization’s namesake was also a Republican.

        Komen used to be a moderate Republican organization, content to ignore every aspect to breast cancer that was inconvenient for its founders and its major donors (major chemical companies), but it also stayed in the middle of the road on issues related to abortion and science-based treatment protocols. Komen never embraced the right-wing lie that abortion causes breast cancer, for example, and it used to be happy to fund breast cancer screening through Planned Parenthood. But the constant pull rightward in the Republican Party meant that Komen being science/fact-based wasn’t going to hold. So they appointed an anti-choicer to a position of power, and she immediately defunded Komen’s contributions to Planned Parenthood.

        “Save the ta-tas” is probably one of the least offensive aspects to the organization. I’ve never been a supporter even though both my parents died from breast cancer.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Jesus. Sorry for your loss.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        kesher, I, too, do not support the breast cancer industry. My equine dentist’s wife got Hodgkins when she was 21, was treated with all the usual poisons, then developed breast cancer 15 years later, which she deeply believes is the result of the treatment for Hodgkins. You should hear her on the breast cancer industry! Ouch! The day I believe any of these organizations actually want to end the cancer epidemic, rather than making sure they have cushy jobs, is the day I might — might — support them.

      • kesher Says:


        Thanks. I kind of throw information out there these days because my parents’ deaths were so long ago, I barely even think of it as a tragedy unless something specifically reminds me of that period in my life. These days, most breast cancer issues just remind me of my personal cancer risk.


        “The day I believe any of these organizations actually want to end the cancer epidemic”

        It’s all about early detection; even though early detection only helps a small fraction of women with breast cancer. The vast majority of cases, either you’ve got such a slow-growing tumor, it doesn’t really matter when it’s caught, or the cancer is so fast-growing, it also doesn’t matter. You’re going to be dead in a couple of years regardless.

        To my mind, the only real advancement in breast cancer treatment over the years is that they’ve finally stopped mutilating women and removing anything they can get their hands on. Although there was a woman scientist/doctor (I can’t recall her name) who recommended lumpectomies as the main surgical protocol for breast cancer *decades* ago, and she was ignored.

        Although, credit where it’s due. I’m glad to know that, if I’m diagnosed, they’re not going to remove my breast, my pectoral, and my uninfected lymphnodes. No point in being mutilated however many months or years before the cancer comes back.

      • Dogtowner Says:


        What I want to see is the cleanup of our environment. I want to see cancer prevented. Young people cannot believe it when I tell them that when I was a child I NEVER met a child with cancer. I did have an older friend whose sister got leukemia as a teenager — that was the first person under the age of 40 I knew with cancer.

        The woman I mentioned is not following protocol with her breast cancer. She is treating herself, the lump is shrinking on its own; for some odd reason she doesn’t want to be further medicalized.

        After two mammograms, I refused to have any more. I’m at an age where I don’t care if I get cancer and wouldn’t have it treated if I did. Can you imagine how men would react if they were told they needed to have a test where their testicles were squeezed flat and X-rayed?

      • shediogenes Says:

        @Kesher I agree the bumper stickers are the least offensive thing about Komen. Sometimes its the little things that I find most revealing. A sexist bumper sticker, so unnecessary, that illustrates the base level of understanding and concern for women in orgs that are supposed to be about caring for women, whatever destructive acts follow come as little surprise. I realistically can’t ask for perfection from large organizations, and yet any org that is willing to perpetuate misogyny in the little things finds it easier to do so on a larger scale. I wonder, if Komen hadn’t originally supported breast cancer screening at Planned Parenthood, only to pull their support later, how effectively would PP have developed and funded their own programs from the outset, how much funding that wound up with Komen would instead have gone directly to PP instead. The politics of conservative v. liberal is rooted in patriarchy and serves patriarchy. I can no longer identify with either. Women need our own politics and our own language of agreement and dissent that doesn’t root itself in the win-at-all-costs model of male war doctrine. Understanding the hard science of breast cancer, but abandoning the social science understanding of how to best offer screening services is stupid, whatever the politics. Komen is living in la-la land.

  24. Lauren Says:

    Given that this deals with male invasion of female spaces I feel that sharing my little Reddit story from last night may be apt here.

    “you have been banned from posting to /r/asktransgender: asktransgender: questions and comments.
    note from the moderators: never remove ban”

    That was the message awaiting me this morning from Reddit after I spent a bit of time last night replying to a few different asktranny topics with honest and non-delusional replies. Then I saw some of the replies I got from the trannies on these posts overnight and one I found particularly interesting:

    “Normal people don’t seek out already-marginalized minorities in their own spaces just to bully and shame them. That takes a special type of cruelty and mean spiritedness.”

    We (women) are not a minority, but despite being the majority population we are ‘already-marginalised’. Immediately after reading that comment I thought to myself “wow, isn’t this exactly what the trans cult is doing to women?” Yes. Yes it is. When we speak out for our own public safety and our right as women to have truly female-only public spaces, educational institutions, events, clubs, and other organisations we are immediately and often viciously shamed and bullied by the trans cult for not being tranny inclusive. I wish I could reply to that comment and thank him for making the case that the trans cult is definitely not normal and they have a ‘special type of cruelty and mean spiritedness’ when they seek to destroy female-only spaces and events.

    • “you have been banned from posting to /r/asktransgender … never remove ban”

      Men are such hypocritical shits. They get to keep women out both public and private spaces as decreed by themselves, yet any woman ever wants to draw a personal boundary then it’s the worst “violence” ever, which merits even more full-on misogyny.

  25. Sheela Says:

    Also that ridiculous bit: ” We also do not believe we can end the oppression of women and lesbians in a world where transgender women are reviled and targeted”

    Camping on a private field for a few days listening to bands = being ‘reviled and targeted’? Losing the plot much? No more important things to fight out there? Need the help of a dictionary to define ‘targeted’ ?

  26. GallusMag Says:


    Mara Keisling with Rea Carey and Kate Kendell
    April 10 at 6:18pm ·

    Please read my comments here before reading the article.
    NCLR and the Natl LGBTQ Task Force have earned our trust and support. They were among the first to deeply feel trans people as part of their DNA. So many trans advances over the last two decades originated in these organizations. I completely trust them to never intentionally harm trans people–they are constitutionally incapable of it.
    This maneuver they have executed is simply not throwing trans people under the bus.
    MichFest has diminished and endangered its own existence by its exclusion and disrespect for trans people. We can all just watch it continue to fizzle out in the next few years without hating on each other. Attacking these two organizations for this is shortsighted, unfair, and absolutely unproductive. They are among our strongest supporters and dearest friends.
    Let’s try to treat each other well.…

    NCLR’s Kate Kendell removes Michfest boycott signature – Gay Lesbian Bi Trans News – Windy City…
    Windy City Times News – NCLR’s Kate Kendell removes Michfest boycott signature Kate Kendell and the organization she leads, the National Center for…
    Peggy Shorey, Victor Diaz-Herman, Drew Cherubini-Moore and 55 others like this.

    Rebecca Juro A couple of questions, Mara: Do you and NCTE support the action these orgs took? Why or why not?
    April 10 at 6:24pm · 1

    Mara Keisling Rebecca, we have not prioritized MichFest, so I don’t know enough about the topic. We declined to sign the original petition because it isn’t a topic we work on. But I know sufficiently about these two orgs and their leaders that a) I trust them and b) I am so saddened that trans people would raise pitch forks against them. This call-out culture wherein we look for things to attack including each other and our friends is making us all weaker. We need to be kinder.
    April 10 at 6:33pm · 21

    Tracy Garza I’m all for being kinder, and while I support the work of NCLR, I remain troubled by the fact that it’s 2015 and they still don’t have any trans women on their staff – and of course one of their top lawyers is a trans guy, and he really is a great guy, but still. I strongly suspect the cisgender lesbians who support NCLR must be putting a lot of pressure on Kate.
    April 10 at 6:36pm · 4

    Mara Keisling Thanks for your kind and reasonable tone, Tracy. I bet Kate would welcome a dialogue with you about anything. Maybe reach out to her.
    April 10 at 6:39pm · 2

    Jordan Gwendolyn Davis Honestly, Michfest isn’t the biggest issue facing our culture, and yes, these organizations have been great partners. But with all due respect, I am a person of the present, not the past, and I sincerely hope they had a good reason to do such.
    April 10 at 6:40pm

    Jennifer Ludes I try to step back and see the larger picture but in this case Mara, I just don’t see anything but tire tracks from the bus that rolled over us once again. Doesn’t matter that the fest is diminishing. If anything, THIS would have been the perfect opportunity to stand together. Why this action and why now? If there is a reason, they’ve done a poor job of communicating it. One last thought…I hope I’m wrong.
    April 10 at 6:41pm

    Zoe Nicholson I read it and read it and read it. I seems extraordinarily cautious, architected and still I just want clarity. All I read was that this is in process so don’t take a firm position.
    April 10 at 6:46pm · 1

    Rebecca Juro Mara, I think history teaches us that it’s wise to be suspicious, but also not to necessarily jump to conclusions. At the same time, I believe that MichFest matters, especially for transwomen of our generation. It’s an issue that strikes directly to the core of how trans women are perceived by cis women. It may not be a political issue per se, but it’s certainly a cultural one, and one that has plenty of resonance for a lot of us. Frankly, if there’s another reason other than siding with those who don’t believe trans women belong at such an event, I’d like to hear these women come out and tell us what it is. I’m hoping at least one of them will be willing to come on my show and level with the community.
    April 10 at 6:46pm · 6

    Mara Keisling Thanks, Jordan. I assume they did something strategic here. We need to be generous with our friends. We aren’t victims here.
    April 10 at 6:47pm

    Mara Keisling Jennifer Ludes and Rebecca, those are great questions. Why not reach out to our really great allies who have done so much with us instead of assuming bad intentions from them and victim good for us.
    April 10 at 6:50pm · 1

    Jordan Gwendolyn Davis And for what its worth, I have been talking to the NCLR about Sig boosting something trans related, so I hope they follow through and continue to be allies.
    April 10 at 6:51pm

    Mara Keisling Rebecca, I’m not saying the MichFest issue isn’t important. I’m just saying we haven’t prioritized it. We can’t work in everything.
    April 10 at 6:51pm · 4

    Jordan Gwendolyn Davis Mara, I understand that there’s a lot to be done with limited resources, but often times, it can be just an “I concur”
    April 10 at 6:53pm

    Jennifer Ludes I have Mara and am awaiting their response. Hopefully they’ll provide some clarification. I’m not assuming bad intentions but I would be remiss if I didn’t admit to being at least a little bit concerned.
    April 10 at 6:54pm

    Carolyn Langford Hussein Fort Abby Louise Jensen, thought you might want to read this thread, if you aren’t already.
    April 10 at 6:55pm

    Mara Keisling I agree, Jordan. In this case we opted to pass. The morality of MichFest may be simple, but still the process is much more complicated than “you’re on my side or you’re evil.” It usually is more complicated.
    April 10 at 6:56pm · 1

    Joni Weiss I have always felt that MichFest has the right to decide who their target audience is. If they want to differentiate between “Womyn born women” and all other women, that is their choice. All to does is make me feel like it’s not someplace I would want to go. I have been invited my lesbian friends to camp with them at the fest.. and I politely declined as I just don’t feel comfortable going there while they continue to make that distinction. As a trans woman who could no doubt attend without raising anyones transdar, I still would not go as it is not a safe space for trans folks.
    April 10 at 7:00pm · 2

    Mara Keisling Jennifer, thanks for doing that. And it’s fine to be concerned. I bet they’ve had a lot of unreasonable people with pitchforks needlessly attacking them. It rally weakens all of us. I posted this not to specifically to agree with their position–I’m not really involved in the issue. But these orgs are an integral part of the trans community. That they both made this decision at the same time makes me even more certain that it will be okay. I’m sad that everyone scores Internet points now for attacking.
    April 10 at 7:00pm · 2

    Abby Louise Jensen Criticism is not attack. I am deeply disappointed in both these organizations while I also recognize the important work they have done for trans people.
    April 10 at 7:01pm · 6

    Mara Keisling Jennifer, to be clear: my point about the people with pitchforks was not to call you one, but rather to say they may not have gotten back to you because they were responding. If they are smart, they are ignoring the attacks.
    April 10 at 7:02pm · 2

    Mara Keisling Thanks, Abby. You’re correct. Criticism is NOT attack. Possibly also, removing themselves from the petition is not betrayal. I give friends the benefit of the doubt.
    April 10 at 7:05pm · 4

    Jennifer Ludes I didn’t take it as an attack, Mara. And I don’t necessarily expect or need them to respond to me directly (though would certainly welcome that). Rather, my intent was to ask the question with the hope they’ll use it to gauge response and to let them know their statement may have caused more confusion than clarification.
    April 10 at 7:06pm · 2

    Mara Keisling Very good point, Jennifer.
    April 10 at 7:07pm

    Rebecca Juro Possibly Mara, but if it’s as you say and it’s not the betrayal it seems to be, why aren’t they being more forthcoming about what they’re doing and why? Something just doesn’t smell right to me about this whole thing. Ethan and I are going to try to get one or both of these ladies, or at least org reps who can speak to the issue, on the show. I’ll be interested to see if they agree to come on. The way both have handled this so far does not fill me with confidence.
    April 10 at 7:12pm · 3

    Michael Soto Well said Mara, your leadership, empathy, and ability to see the big picture are always vital for our community. I hope that these organizations continue to, along with NCTE, make significant changes to public policy and awareness about our community.
    April 10 at 7:47pm · 4

    Tony Varona Brava, Mara!
    See Translation
    April 10 at 7:49pm · 2

    Erica Keppler Generally speaking, boycotts are largely symbolic protests that draw attention to an issue but only rarely directly force change through inflicting economic pains. There are historic exceptions like the Montgomery Bus Boycott, but that was an exception that resulted from historically exceptional effort. Simply because a boycott letter was created doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s effective, and there’s little reason to assume that it would be. The boycott itself shouldn’t be viewed as sacred and non-participation should not be viewed as sacrilege. It’s just a tactic, nothing more. If the letter had been around for a very long time, like the embargo of Cuba, then it’s reasonable to say that it’s obviously not working and they might as well scrap it. However, this boycott letter is apparently only about a year old. That’s a bit premature to judge the effectiveness of its impact on an annual event. One datapoint does not establish a trend. I would think that if they are choosing to leave the boycott, there should be a clear, “Here’s what we’re doing instead,” statement. There’s a little of that, in saying that they are negotiating, but they didn’t give adequate explanation for why the boycott was either being problematic in that process. It sounds like a mixed bag of reasoning to me. One is that it hurts the artists who are third parties in this conflict (which is a valid point). Another is a reverence for the historic significance of the event and reluctance to damage it. Kendell of NCLR also made clear mention of the backlash they received their constituents.

    It would seem to me that for such significant organizations to take such a move, knowing it would be conspicuous in the public eye, they should provide a clear statement of saying why they thought the boycott was ineffective or injurious, and/or describing more effective tactics they are engaging in which are hindered by their signature on it. Both of these orgs, despite awareness of how it would be seen, seem to have given vague statements that dance around the why while offer little more instead than, “We’ll keep working on it.” Maybe the boycott is minor, symbolic protest. and it isn’t worth getting all upset about this move, but the lack of specificity, if nothing more, in my opinion is worthy of criticism.
    April 10 at 8:10pm · 2

    Zoe Nicholson It seems to be a writing sample of “Eschew Obfuscation” Simple and clear would have been really helpful. I am a cis woman and I just want to know. I signed the boycott letter. Watching people I respect get the white-out concerns me. It is process, why not just say that?
    April 10 at 8:11pm · 2

    Mara Keisling Zoe, I think both letters do say that.
    April 10 at 8:12pm

    Beth Corbin I agree with Michael Soto.
    April 10 at 8:13pm · 2

    Barbara Warren I don’t usually go on Facebook with political opinions or rants. But this really bothered me. There is a one role and set of behaviors for advocacy and a different role and set of behaviors for facilitating change or being an agent of change. That being said, how much longer must Trans women and men wait for cisgender people to come around and “understand” to do the right thing? Discrimination and exclusion is discrimination and exclusion and conciliatory words and letters don’t change that for Trans people. I am disappointed that these two powerful and influential organizations in the LGBT/ Queer movement backed down.
    April 10 at 8:27pm · 3

    Tony Varona Barbara Warren, so you are saying that ciswomen do not comprise or deserve enough of an identity to have the right to articulate a preference for a “safe space” just for themselves for one week per year in the woods of Michigan? My understanding is that Michfest is no longer describing itself as a space for ALL women. Just women assigned as female at birth. Is that not their right? Just as there are transwomen-only spaces elsewhere? It also appears that you believe that “Trans women and men” are being discriminated against at Michfest. You realize that transmen are welcomed at Michfest, right?
    April 10 at 8:32pm

    Mara Keisling Barbara and Tony, I think you may both be misunderstanding what these orgs have done. They have both explicitly said they removed their names specifically to advance their goal of eliminating the exclusion. Either way, my point is about supporting friends and stopping the call-out culture that is weakening our community.
    April 10 at 8:43pm · 1

    Tony Varona I read both statements very carefully, Mara, and I didn’t reach the conclusion that you apparently reached. Kate’s message in particular was quite deferential and not particularly insistent on the abandonment of a ciswomen-only Fest:

    “We are grounded in some deeply held principles, including the belief that discrimination and bigotry against lesbians is rooted in sexism, misogyny and the devaluation of women. We do not believe it is possible to win liberation for lesbians in a world where misogyny thrives. We also do not believe we can end the oppression of women and lesbians in a world where transgender women are reviled and targeted. // NCLR has come to a deeper understanding of what Michfest means to our community and seeks to honor that through this process. We also acknowledge the Michfest organizers have been involved in an ongoing conversation over the years on this issue. We are committed to honest and forthright dialogue as a more constructive means for seeking resolution and common ground.”
    April 10 at 8:54pm · Edited

    Mara Keisling Tony, I’m certain you are misreading that. I have also talked with both Kate and Rea. They came of the petition solely to pursue a dialogue in support of a fully inclusive MichFest.
    April 10 at 8:54pm

    Tony Varona Where does it say that in Kate’s letter, Mara? And I don’t doubt your interpretation, of course. You call them as you see them. But I just don’t see that positioning in the NCLR statement at least.
    April 10 at 8:56pm · Edited

    Mara Keisling Paragraph 4 says “NCLR has removed our name from the petition and will be actively engaged in conversations in which we honor our differences while also pursuing a conclusion that supports the gender identity and inclusion of all women in Michfest. We have faith that such a resolution is possible.”

    My whole point here though is that we need to trust our good friends and minimize angry reactions.
    April 10 at 8:58pm · 1

    Tony Varona That is good language, I agree, but it does not require a modification of MichFest’s current policy — at all.
    April 10 at 8:59pm

    Tony Varona And I agree that Kate and Rea are richly deserving of our trust.
    April 10 at 8:59pm · 1

    Mara Keisling Thanks, Tony. It will be fine.
    April 10 at 9:07pm

    Vickie Davis Tony, Tony, Tony!!!

    1. We all know transmen are welcome there. I would be offended by that, if I was a transman, because they are clearly not recognizing their manhood.

    2. Where is these mythical “transwomen-only spaces??”

    3. Oh yes, lets bring up the “safe space” free of “men in dresses” that the right wing is using against us to keep trans folks out of a bathroom.

    I guess we need to back way up and educate our LGBTQ organizations as to what and who we are. They clearly don’t understand.
    April 10 at 9:15pm · 1

    J Kersten Leigh Thank you for posting your comments Mara.. It helps see the greater perspective..
    April 10 at 9:21pm · 2

    Mara Keisling Thanks, J Kirsten Leigh.
    April 10 at 9:23pm

    Tony Varona Vickie, have you been to a Creating Change conference? It used to be the case — perhaps no longer — than trans-only spaces were made available there. No one here is making the argument you present in #3. Certainly not me. And I can’t speak for transmen, but I do know that they have attended Michfest and are welcomed. I’d be curious to hear their perspective.
    April 10 at 9:30pm

    Lexie Cannes Devil’s advocate: Not everyone is going to get the note explaining why this reversal was made, so hopefully those organizations took this into consideration.
    April 10 at 9:55pm

    Nikki Hatch Who gives a crap about Michfest? I have no interest in going to bars that are all gay men. I could care less about being at a Music festival with all lesbians. Let the people who want to go, go and sing your little hearts out. As a Trans person, I feel less and less a connection to the Gay and Lesbian Community.
    April 10 at 9:57pm · 1

    Nadine Smith Thanks Mara. Well said. I look forward to seeing this plan unfold.
    April 10 at 10:17pm

    Peter Jenkins Kat Tucker Barry Corinne Green Thoughts?
    April 10 at 10:53pm · Edited

    Peter Jenkins I’m concerned that even though you know, and trust, these groups Mara Keisling that your words could cause legitimate critique and concern of these actions to be dismissed.

    No, Michfest is not the only, nor is it the most important issue facing the trans community. But it is one of the issues, and people have a legitimate right to be truly concerned over the actions of these groups especially since most of us don’t have the same level of relationship with the groups leaders that you do.
    April 10 at 11:56pm · 2

    Mara Keisling Peter Jenkins, absolutely. And thanks for your kind and sincere tone. I think it’s great when people express their concern. I’m just sad that people are expressing hate and victimhood without expressing trust or even asking for more info. I’m tired of seeing people lash out at friends, assuming the worst and locking people out.
    Yesterday at 2:59am

    Mara Keisling Peter, I’ll add that I hope people do legitimate critique and concern. What I was seeing though was the usual knee jerk reaction to condemn, this time against some of the best trans allies in the country without showing respect or trust or legitimate critique. It sometimes feels like we think the Internet is now giving out merit badges for loud condemnation and unkindness. I decided to take a stand against this call-out victimhood in this case because Kate and Rea (and their organizations) are so unequivocally supportive of trans folks, that these attacks and this victimhood are so clearly unfair and unproductive. To me, how trans and other queer people live and treat our own people is such a more important issue than who goes to MichFest.
    Yesterday at 3:17am · 2

    Kerrie Sifton If michfest is simply another place where a DNA test is required for access, then do we need to push the request/demand for access. They have blurred the boundaries somewhat by allowing transmen to attend, thus they too need to define what their event is to look like going into the future. I don’t believe boycotts are as effective as having a meaningful dialogue to establish common ground. Usually boycotts sweep up a wider group of people and do more harm to others who have little or no say in the determining the outcome. Frankly, I am more at home in the company of women than I am around men, and I would be happy to go to Michfest, but not if they were asking for my DNA test. Thus what does a michfest2020 look like? Do they know? Is it for people who believe they are women and have respect for other women? May the dialogue continue.
    Yesterday at 4:27am

    Nikki Hatch I pretty much evolved out of the gay community. I never saw a Trans person growing up or even heard of anyone Trans except Christine Jorgensen. Transitioning just never seemed like an option for people like me in the 1960s and 70s. Since I was sexually attracted to men, I assumed I must be gay. That is how I identified from age 13 until in my late 40s. All my friends were gay or lesbian. I was on the Board of Directors for the local MCC. I attended Gay Pride Picnics and parades. I was an activist for Gay Rights, etc. Finally, when I was living in Los Angeles in the early-mid 90s, I stumbled across a bar in the Valley called “The Queen Mary”. It was 2 bars actually. The front bar was the typical female impersonators performing to mainly straight audiences. I soon discovered a Back Bar down the hallway. The back bar was where the Transgender people and their admirers hung out. Within 10 seconds of entering there, I knew I had found my community of kindred spirits. That was the start of a long journey of self discovery until 15 years later when I had SRS and fully transitioned. My surgery was almost 8 years ago and the best gift I ever gave to myself. It’s sad that it took me to the age of 55 before I could afford or have the self understanding to make that decision. I still have a few gay and lesbian friends. I still support pro-gay politicians and legislation; however, my affiliation with the Gay and Lesbian Community has waned over the years. Before, I considered them “family”. That has changed. I often feel more comfortable with politically progressive straight people than Gay people now. Situations such as this Michfest and the Radical Feminists only reinforce the fact that I am only a fringe element of those communities, often tolerated at best. It’s sad in a way but that’s life. Relationships grow and change and sometimes you change in different directions so a separation is inevitable. That seems to be the direction my life is moving.
    Yesterday at 7:16am · 2

    Vivianna Hernandez Mara Keisling I feel that you are only trying to be unbiased towards this whole issue of “Women and Lesbian Rights” and I respect your decision. But, when you’re the founder of one the most prestigous Transgender Organizations, it doesn’t appear to be as good as you would like. Are you with the The Task or your own trans community? You cannot be both! Because it seems then that you are only being a hipocrit…Who supports every single campaign that the NCTE initiates? Its NOT The TaskForce. Where is the NCTE PR at this moment?
    Yesterday at 7:30am

    Mara Keisling Vivianna Hernandez, Thanks for your comment. All I am thinking about here is trans people and social justice. And I am so sad that some trans people would abandon social justice principles and practical considerations based on superficial knowledge and just assume the worst about such good allies.

    I’m just tired of leaders in our community (trans or not) being attacked for doing their best and then me going to them afterward and telling them how sad I am that they were attacked. Instead I am going to try as often as possible to stand with people while they are being bullied instead of after.

    I now understand this petition situation very well and I am confident in my support for Kate and Rea. Their strategic decision was made entirely aimed at resolving this whole MichFest mishegas once and for in favor of our inclusion.

    The Task Force and NCLR have earned our support and engagement, not attacks.

    I know that at the end of this, I won’t need to apologize to these leaders because I abandoned them when they were being unfairly attacked.
    Yesterday at 9:19am · 4

    Rebecca Juro I don’t think you’re being fair, Vivianna. You can support The Task Force and the trans community. They’re not mutually exclusive. That said, the real issue here the decision made by these orgs to withdraw from this effort and the way they have communicated them to the greater LGBT community. Many have suggested to me that there’s more going on here than meets the eye, and that’s certainly possible. However, the lack of transparency here is deeply concerning. NGLTF’s contention that it’s about support for musicians and support staff is frankly laughable. If that were truly the driving factor in their decision, why did they sign on to the statement in the first place? This reeks of capitulation to pressure from big-money donors. If so, that’s not Mara’s or NCTE fault, the blame would rest completely with the leadership of those orgs.
    Yesterday at 9:34am

    Vivianna Hernandez Mara Keisling thank you for sharing your views in this critical matter. The only way that social justice and equality will co-exist is when we see a “balance” among those non-trans agencies hiring more trans-people for those uppper management positions. And as of today, I don’t see that happening soon. Yes, they do hire some but comparing their ratio – we are still significantly outnumbered…..
    Yesterday at 9:35am

    Chris Paige Mara, Even if your analysis is spot on, it seems like a PR nightmare that could have been avoided by a better comm strategy that modeled sensitivity to trans folk You may have back story and trust and it is fine for you to take this stand, especially since you need to work with them on other issues. Thats politics. But its not hard to understand that the rest of us are in the position of saying, if it looks like a duck…
    Yesterday at 9:38am · 3

    Vivianna Hernandez If the Task Force or the NCLR wants my support, the they should HIRE more trans-people and not just for their Front-line Staff, but for UpperManagement Positions………More Job! More Jobs!
    Yesterday at 9:42am · 1

    Mara Keisling Rebecca, I think all that’s not explicitly not visible (though clearly visible) is that they did do the communications right. NCTE declined to sign the petition. Had NCLR or the TF asked me whether they should sign it, I would have counseled against. However, had they asked me last week whether to come off it, I would have seen the brouhaha coming and TS them not to. My point here is still we should t be trying to call out friends and family the way we have been. Critique and accountability are important but senseless attacking based on misleading stories and conclusion jumping is unacceptable and making us all weaker. I’m standing with well meaning friends here and standing against the damaging meanness that is making justice harder.
    Yesterday at 10:07am

    Mara Keisling Chris, thanks so much for your tone and good will. Your analysis is exactly correct, I think.
    Yesterday at 10:07am · 1

    Mara Keisling Vivianna, I agree. But let’s engage with our friends rather than trash them. Im happy to engage them in a conversation about that. They would welcome it, I know.

    P.S. Both orgs have senior trans staff. NCLR’s legal director is trans. Both NCTE and the Transgender Law Center got off the ground only with the support (financial and moral) of these two orgs.
    Yesterday at 10:11am

    Katrina Rose “You realize that transmen are welcomed at Michfest, right?”

    They’re welcomed – as women.
    Yesterday at 10:12am

    Mara Keisling Katrina, I am certainly not defending MichFest.
    Yesterday at 10:16am

    Katrina Rose “MichFest has diminished and endangered its own existence by its exclusion and disrespect for trans people. We can all just watch it continue to fizzle out in the next few years without hating on each other. Attacking these two organizations for this is shortsighted, unfair, and absolutely unproductive. They are among our strongest supporters and dearest friends. ”

    This will be used as an example in rhetoric and linguistics classes as an archetypal example of wanting to have it both ways.

    “”MichFest has diminished and endangered its own existence by its exclusion and disrespect for trans people.”

    That same sentence could have been – and, with slight variances, probably was – written 25 years ago.

    “We can all just watch it continue to fizzle out in the next few years without hating on each other.”

    See above – paying particular attention to “25 years ago”

    “Attacking these two organizations for this is shortsighted, unfair, and absolutely unproductive.”

    You’re wrong.


    “They are among our strongest supporters and dearest friends. ”

    You’re wrong.

    Exclamation point.
    Yesterday at 10:16am

    Mara Keisling But it’s dying and there are more important dinosaurs to slay. I’m just tired of people –especially great allies–getting beat up because of botched communications.
    Yesterday at 10:17am

    Mara Keisling Okay. Thanks, Katrina.
    Yesterday at 10:18am

    Katrina Rose Allies can cease to be allies.

    And, assuming that those two ever were (which I don’t), these two just ceased being so
    Yesterday at 10:18am

    Rebecca Juro I agree about not attacking those who have been on our side in the past, Mara, but I don’t believe either of these women or the orgs they lead have been fully honest and open with the trans community thus far about their reasons for this decision, (i.e. Why this? Why now?). I’m trying to get these ladies to come on next week’s show. Because of the history, I’m willing to keep an open mind for now, but I’ll need significantly more than what we’ve been offered so far to conclude that these orgs are acting with the best interests of the trans community at heart. I mean, seriously, suddenly out of the blue two orgs decide on the same day to withdraw from the same statement? I’d like that “coincidence” explained, please. There’s clearly something going on here that the community isn’t being made privy to and that always sends up red flags for me, especially when it involves a willingness to be publicly seen as betraying the trans community.
    Yesterday at 10:31am · Edited · 2

    Mara Keisling Rebecca, respectfully, you mostly see red flags.
    Yesterday at 11:53am

    Gretchen Lintner From what I have read, the NCLR statement was issued a few days prior to that made by the Task Force. Billerico’s Friday article is when most of us seem to have heard of this.
    Yesterday at 12:26pm

    Rebecca Juro Are you saying that I’m wrong to see them here, Mara? The available information leads to a logical conclusion, that these leaders and their orgs aren’t being forthright with us. And just as respectfully, Mara, I think we have the right to expect at least that much at minimum from any org which seeks to advocate in our name or on our behalf.
    Yesterday at 12:53pm

    Rebecca Juro Here’s a new statement from Carey and Kendall, just as obtuse as the first one. Notice how Carey has now quietly dropped the “supporting the musicians” argument, probably because no one bought it for a second.

    Chris Geidner on Twitter
    “Joint statement from @NCLRights’ @KateKendell & @TheTaskForce’s @rea_carey regarding MichFest:”
    Yesterday at 3:13pm

    Mara Keisling Rebecca, thanks for posting it. Here is what they are saying: we think we can get this done faster by coming off the petition and talking with the MichFest organizers. It’s that simple. There is nothing secret or obtuse.
    Yesterday at 3:19pm · 1

    Rebecca Juro Then why not just say that up front, Mara, instead of avoiding it or offering other reasons? Why the need to to claim support for the musicians? The way this is being handled reminds me of the old days when Brad Luna was HRC Press Secretary and I and others had to pry scraps of credible info from him with weeks of public criticism that eventually forced HRC to defend itself. No one’s in the their offices on the weekend but I hope one or both of them will come on the show. I, for one, still have plenty of unanswered questions.
    Yesterday at 3:35pm · Edited · 1

    Mara Keisling Rebecca, they’ve clarified. I’ve met with them. Now let’s give them a chance to maneuver. A good read is Autumn Sandeen.
    Yesterday at 3:37pm · 2

    j wallace Adele Ryan I noticed you posted a status about this yesterday, Mara is someone who I really feel has a credible, important and informed voice on this, and wanted to make sure you saw this conversation.
    Yesterday at 3:38pm · 1

    Autumn Sandeen I’ve been a hash critic of Lisa Vogel and MichFest for years, as many know — I’m sure Kate, Rea, Mara, and especially Lisa Vogel know it. I also know Lisa Vogel has never entered into honest, forthright, face-to-face discussions with trans women about the womyn-born-womyn intention.

    So, this, I feel, is the year to change tactics and strategy and put pressure on Lisa Vogel in new and creative ways. What is it that Martin Luther King Jr. told us? “Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.” This is the year to pressure Lisa Vogel in new ways to have that discussion with actual trans women.

    Call me creatively maladjusted.

    I believe as this situation plays out, Kate and Rea are going to be shown to be creatively maladjusted as well.
    Yesterday at 3:53pm · Edited · 3

    Rebecca Juro The unanswered questions are obvious, Autumn: Lisa Vogel hasn’t budged in 30 years. What’s the reason to believe that she’s movable now? Why is now any different from the last 3 decades? Why did Rae Carey lead with a claim that they were removing their name from the statement to support the musicians but has now apparently changed her story? Why should someone who issues a statement containing an untruth only to change their story later be given the benefit of the doubt?
    Yesterday at 4:00pm

    Tony Varona It is sadly notable and notably sad, Mara, how some transwomen are savaging Kate and Rea on social media and Twitter especially. Attacking, insulting, belittling and trashing them. It’s nothing short of harassment. It’s abuse. And for what? It’s clear that the LGBT orgs are caught between a rock and a hard place here, with some trans folks insisting that MichFest is great and should stay as is (preferring female-assigned-at-birth attendance), and others demanding inclusion of all women, even women whose outward appearance is very “male” — and at a nudist-friendly encampment, with young girls and sexual assault survivors in attendance. This disagreement not only is a conflict between some radical (lesbian) feminists and transwomen, but also apparently between the many transmen who attend the Fest (I know at least two) and transwomen who are less than welcomed under the current policy. If even our trans brothers and sisters can’t decide whether the current MichFest admission criteria is good or bad, then — as Mara pleads — please let us cut Kate and Rea some much-deserved slack. Jeez.
    Yesterday at 4:04pm

    Carolyn Caywood Fighting misogyny ought to be a common bond, not a source of division.
    Yesterday at 5:29pm

    Jay Botsford Thank you, Mara, for helping to remind folks that there is a LOT of complexity in relationships with allies, both individuals and organizations. The first set of communications were difficult to navigate and used confusing language, that I’ve no doubt was extremely carefully selected, albeit inaccessible to many, many people.

    I agree that people and organizations who have proven themselves deserve the benefit of the doubt and continued engagement for them to clarify (as happened here) and prove (as we hope will happen) their intentions and stated actions.

    I also know that intention and impact are not the same, and that the latter matters more. Was the intent of the stepping back from the petition to be able to move to better strategies? Absolutely. Was the impact of this decision to many trans women and other trans people extremely hurtful and negative, particularly in light of the confusing nature of their first statements? Yes, absolutely.

    In this case–and in any other–I believe that we need to prioritize repairing the harm of the impact, before clarifying any intention by the actor, especially when it is individuals trans women and other trans people who are harmed and large, fairly powerful organizations that acted. It is on those organizations to apologize, clarify, and then follow-through and prove their intention to be accurate. Members of our communities were harmed by the actions taken by organizations, and the harm was likely amplified because these organizations have been such good allies.

    This is similar in my mind to when the one family member or friend who has always supported you misgenders you in public. Even when they immediately apologize and work to repair the harm, even when you immediately forgive them, it hurts. And sometimes we all react from a place of hurt. Sometimes that looks like yelling or insulting them or needing to take a break. Sometimes that means limiting your time or energy or money spent with them, because you need them to prove again that they have your back.

    I think that is a lot of what is happening here. People were hurt. They have reacted (and continue to react) and have responded with criticism. Let’s not tone police them for their hurt, and instead engage with those who have harmed them to push for repair of that harm.
    23 hrs

    Mara Keisling Jay, I love you and I know you’re speaking a certain current orthodoxy, but what I’m hearing you say doesn’t make sense to me. Here is what I am hearing: “Someone’s intentions may be good but if people interpret harm to themselves, we should encourage (or allow) those people to use whatever tone and tactics they want against the original actor until that actor rectifies a perceived harm that wasn’t intended or necessarily real. Yet we must ignore or accept the real and intended harm to the original actor by whomever perceived a wrong. We must ignore the intentions and goals and support the outrage.”

    It’s just not helpful or fair.

    I wish we could still see us try tactics like “huh, I wonder what NCLR and The Task Force are doing here. Maybe I’ll civilly engage them since they’ve always been our good allies. Or maybe I’ll see how this plays out.”

    I do truly appreciate your tone though, so thank you.
    23 hrs · 2

    Katrina Rose “It’s clear that the LGBT orgs are caught between a rock and a hard place here, with some trans folks insisting that MichFest is great and should stay as is (preferring female-assigned-at-birth attendance)”

    Yes, and Fox ‘News’ has “some” African-Americans who parrot the ‘there is no racism in America’ nonsense that Hannity, et. al., vomit into public discourse. I think we know what the ratio of “some” is to the rest.

    If the orgs in question are *actually* LGBT, then there is no rock and there is no hard place; there is but one positon to take.
    22 hrs · 1

    Tony Varona Katrina, would you argue too that all trans “safe spaces” should be abolished? That the campus organizations and gatherings and Creating Change-like conferences with trans-only caucuses, workshops and meetings need to open themselves up to everyone? At least ALL women?
    22 hrs

    Katrina Rose “Katrina, would you argue too that all trans “safe spaces” should be abolished? ”

    I’ve never heard of one.
    21 hrs · 2

    Vickie Davis Is there any explanation as to why they had this joint announcement??
    7 hrs

    Mara Keisling Vickie, I don’t think they did have a joint announcement, or really any announcement at all, until people misunderstood there original withdrawal letters from the petition. I don’t think they saw this as a big public deal. All they were doing was trying to engage MichFest to become trans inclusive.
    7 hrs

    Vickie Davis Lets hope, Mara!! As of now, they are burning more bridges then they are repairing. Not many of us really want to go camping in the Michigan woods, but lots of us thought we had friends in the NCLR and the Task Force.
    7 hrs · Edited

    Mara Keisling Vickie, I met with them both yesterday. I’m sure about their intentions.
    7 hrs · 1

    Peter Jenkins Even actions with the best of intentions can be the wrong actions.
    7 hrs · 1

    Mara Keisling Absolutely, PJ.
    6 hrs

    Laura Peterson They adjusted to address the concerns of their organizations/funders, which is not entirely surprising even it is is disappointing. The problem is that they are leaders and others will follow accordingly. So unless there is magic going on behind the scenes that plays out quickly, it’s hard to see a positive outcome.
    5 hrs

    Mara Keisling Thanks, Laura. They are trying to lead.
    5 hrs · 2

    • Miep Says:

      God that was long. I like the part about “if it looks like a duck,” though. And “creatively maladjusted” is not something I’d choose to call myself.

    • dbrvnk Says:

      Tony Varona Katrina, would you argue too that all trans “safe spaces” should be abolished? That the campus organizations and gatherings and Creating Change-like conferences with trans-only caucuses, workshops and meetings need to open themselves up to everyone? At least ALL women?
      22 hrs

      Katrina Rose “Katrina, would you argue too that all trans “safe spaces” should be abolished? ”

      I’ve never heard of one.

      ^^^ what about the ones tony just mentioned? can you read katrina? hello???

      god so much useless chatter from these guys, do they have nothing more rewarding to do? lol

      • neme Says:

        Such ignorance (along with the usual delusions). They have so little involvement in the communities and events they attack that they are unaware of how many trans-only spaces there are, and how almost all “women’s” festivals welcome males who transgender. But they are uninterested in the events that welcome them. Because without that rapey thrill of boundary violation, it’s just not attractive to them.

      • Because without that rapey thrill of boundary violation, it’s just not attractive to them.

        This is exactly it.

    • Teal Deer Says:

      “Criticism is not an attack.”

      Unless I don’t like the criticism, then it’s violence!

  27. mon Says:

    Ok, enough is enough. Michfest is one of the last women only safe places. Women decided they needed this space four decades ago. Men do not get to barge in. We do need to fight back. Our women’s rights mothers stepped up in the past. The right to vote was denied them, they fought back. They marched, were arrested, they even went on hunger strikes, what did the men do? They force fed them. This land is ours. Men are not invited. We come together in peace, without them. I have had it with their bullshit. I will be at fest this year. I will be watching for any intruders. I will not make their sneaky, barging in, pervy adventure easy. I will make it hard. I will follow you, see what you’re up to. I will be ready to photograph you if you dare shower, naked, with your male genitals exposed where young girls wander free and happy. I WILL go directly to the Michigan State Police with that. If I see you, I will ask you about your workshift. I will ask you why you want to go to the womb, where women are the most vulnerable, because I know cutting up vegetables, dragging mulch for the trails, or stacking wood for the cook stove is just not pervy enough for you. If I see you, I will call you out.

  28. shediogenes Says:

    so NCLR and NGLTF provided support, both financial and moral to start trans advocacy and legal orgs, but are still expected to do all this work on behalf of trans community anyway. well I guess thats what comes of supporting trans anything. both orgs really stepped in it when they got trans orgs off the ground without drawing the line right then and there. Here you go, here’s some funding, here’s how you do such and such, call if you need advice, but our orgs’ were created for this specific population, period. If they had only drawn a line in the sand consistent with their missions for L and G and held firm, they would have nipped this in the bud and been able to focus their resources on their intended mission. But the tranz, they gotta have it all, fund our orgs and while your at it go to work on our issues too, even to the detriment of your own. Who was it upthread who said these orgs should know by now, compromise just pisses everybody off… spot on.

    Thanks for archiving GM. I dont do Twitter so if not for you I would miss out on so much of the crazy

    • GallusMag Says:

      I would have archived the Task Force thread as well but the Task Force is deleting all the Lesbian’s comments. So why bother.

      • shediogenes Says:

        *snort* We, The National Gay and L… mumble,mumble,something,about,an,L,umm…whatever,mumble,mumble… Task Force are bravely serving the needs of Gays and L…mumble,mumble,oh,fuck,it… back to the MEN… who seek Justice as citizens. Delete, delete, delete, delete….

        Typical. They can say Lesbian when they’re seeking contributions, can’t they

    • Miep Says:

      Compromise can be useful and legitimate when there are genuine conflicts, but this is a manufactured one.

  29. K Says:

    A bill allowing people to change their birth certificates without any surgery passed. Hopefully it’ll get shot down, but if it does pass, women’s rights will be essentially dissolved in the United States.

  30. Miep Says:

    New acronym: RELF

    Reality excluding liberal feminists, alternately rear echelon loafing fuckers.

  31. @ Freya,

    “Please read the letters again, Skylark. Where in the texts of those letters did you see any apologies? ”

    You are right! It’s more of a half ass apology if that. Do I actually believe they feel any remorse for all the pain they have caused? No, I don’t.

    They knew full well that attacking Michigan Women’s Music Festival was bitterly divisive, and they did it anyway.

  32. silverside Says:

    Just thinking of possible strategies from here on out. Why not target HRC as one of the remaining petitioners? Those morons continually send me emails asking for money and support–I continually send them back questions. 1) Please provide me with a list of other LGBT events/organizations/bars/etc. you have targeted or not being “inclusive” 2) Please provide me with a list of other LGBT artists/musicians/craftspeople you have threatened with economic sanctions for appearing at an “inclusive” event. Of course they never respond. But maybe if a couple of thousand more women kept bombarding them with the same questions, they might back off a little too.

  33. Erish Says:

    I’ve no idea if this is related at all, or what behind the scenes shenanigans may be happening but this story was released today:

    Dievendorf Leaves Equality Michigan

    “For the fifth time in less than a decade, Equality Michigan is without an executive director. Last week, Emily Dievendorf left the organization. She’s led the agency since the departure of Denise Brogan-Kator in July 2012…Neither Dievendorf nor David Wait, Equality Michigan Board Chair, returned calls seeking comment on the departure. A press statement is expected today.”

  34. Cassandra Says:

    This is tepid good news.

    As a heterosexual woman who was only recently drawn back into looking at feminism, it has taken me a while now to figure out what the heck is even going on—and by that I mean all the different points of view about what feminism is or means—the differences between mainstream/third wave/porn-is-empowering! feminism/transgenderism, radical feminism, and what WoC are saying/what Intersectionalism actually means. It was like untangling a knot, but I think I finally see the big picture.

    I’m just a relatively average woman who hasn’t spent years immersed in online discourse or in academia, it’s true, so when I came across this idea that males can be females and was like “Huh? How does that work?” I really tried to be open minded and learn about it and have compassion. But the more I read and the more I look at what’s going on and just how bat-shit Orwellian crazy this stuff is and how serious the consequences are/will be, I believe my instinct is correct. I mean, how can anybody say “female penis” with a straight face?

    And the thing is, even if it turns out that gender is an innate thing and *is* found in the brain, it doesn’t change the fact that allowing males into women’s locker rooms is oppressive and wrong. It doesn’t change the fact that transgender women’s and female rights are an intransigent opposition of interests, especially as long as *any* man can identify his way into private female spaces/gatherings and we are censured for saying “vagina.”

    I don’t know when it’s going to start hitting and sinking in with average women who either aren’t lesbian and/or don’t keep up with feminism or wouldn’t claim the label. But I’d never be able to say any of this on any popular “feminist” site without getting a sound ass-kicking, so I don’t, so how can the word get out?

    Yes, I’m a *secret* radical feminist, which is sad, huh? They silence us. (I do wonder how many of the liberal feminists actually don’t believe the shit they’re shoveling but are too afraid to say anything.)

    What’s also obvious to me is that this has a lot to do with money— a whole new way for the medical, beauty and pharma industries to profit, but I’m sure everybody here is well aware of this.

    Anyway, that’s just my two cents as a bit of an outsider, but you have my empathy. I hope that if I’m ever put in a position to stand up and say what’s right, that I’ll have the guts.

    Sorry this was so long. Thank you for keeping this blog and speaking the truth.

    • “And the thing is, even if it turns out that gender is an innate thing and *is* found in the brain, it doesn’t change the fact that allowing males into women’s locker rooms is oppressive and wrong.”

      Gender isn’t innate.

  35. […] Director Emily Dievendorf has resigned. The surprise announcement comes on the heels of the withdrawal of support by The National Center for Lesbian Rights and The National LGBTQ Task Force for the controversial […]

  36. I’m just a relatively average woman who hasn’t spent years immersed in online discourse or in academia

    In many ways this is an advantage, as it is likely your common sense will still be intact. And if you start reading some radfem stuff then hopefully you’ll get how radfems are rooted in reality vs the libfem “make up any old shit as you go along as long as it has men and their delusions at the centre”

    • Cassandra Says:

      Yes, I have surmised that radical feminism is rooted in reality. It is what speaks to me and what I have seen and experienced as a female in this patriarchal sh*thole.

      But it is scary how much hostility there is toward radical feminism. So many people have no idea what it even means. Or maybe they do, and that’s why they hate it—because it says it like it is. (Right now I’m reading The Dialectic of Sex, although Shulamith came to a sad ending, if I remember right. Being radical in your heart can lead to isolation in patriarchy. I feel like I’m headed that way, at least. In fact seeing the way things really are can make you feel kind of crazy, no? Don’t know what the answer is.)

      Sorry if I sound like I’m whining. I know this isn’t a therapy forum. Thanks for the reply.

      • Being radical in your heart can lead to isolation in patriarchy.

        In a way it is as radfems hold a minority view, but there are also plenty of other women in the world to connect to who haven’t gone full-on with the trans woo. Sometimes it’s just abut finding common purpose with people locally, looking after yourself and your immediate realtionships.

        Sorry if I sound like I’m whining. I know this isn’t a therapy forum.

        Really doesn’t sound like whining, and maybe not a therapy forum but can be therapeutic to have your say.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        Cassandra, I grew up in a radical household and discovered quite early on that I was a marginalized person. I look average but think quite differently from the overwhelming majority of people, and I long ago accepted that it’s really okay. It probably helped that I read a lot of social psychology when I was 17 years old and learned that it’s not the individual who has clear sight who is crazy, it’s the insane society that is crazy.

        As to your comment about how many liberal feminists may share your disbelief in transgenderism, it’s probably quite a few, but I have discovered that most people just follow along, doing and saying whatever they think other people are doing and saying. All it takes is one shit storm to get them back into line if they step out a bit and ask a question. This is an unfortunate facet of the human personality; very few people are able to give the bird to conformity.

  37. biodyke Says:

    I am very disappointed in the task force for lesbians. I am very disappointed in any group or organization for lesbians or women who think being a woman is a “gender identity”.

    Being a woman is about being born with female parts, about being raised in an oppressive system that values males and devalues females, about having to fight for basic human rights when one as seen and treated as an object to exploit and abuse.

    Being a woman is not an idea or an internal feeling. It is a biological fact. And, it is that very biology that creates an unequal system of dominance-submission, privilege-victimization, entitlement-nonentitlement.

    If one cannot not distinguish what a woman is, one cannot possibly have a clue about what it means to be a lesbian.

    Being a female, woman, lesbian, feminist is about defining life on ones own terms free from the influence and demands of others. It is about shedding the internalized misogyny and sexism that has been instilled in us, that is meant to control us, that is meant to dehumanize us, that is meant mold us into what the system needs us to be.

    Inclusion is all about women forgoing their biology, their plight in a male dominated society, and once again putting their needs and rights aside for the needs and rights of others.

    Inclusion is about men dictating the very definition of female and consequently woman and lesbian. It is about using the language of “trans” to control people who are female and lesbian. i.e. the neutral gender as opposed to the specific sex, cis as a slur to their trans, terf as a slur to their various entitlements. It is about using threats, shame, and blame to coerce women into silence and into foregoing their very biology, the reality this biology creates, and to further stigmatize and berate females simply for “hogging femaleness”.

    Inclusion is about Butch Voices being “trans”formed into a trans organization and eliminating any mention of lesbians and female. It is about MichFest becoming a battleground as opposed to a refuge. It is about womens studies being diluted into womens, sexuality, gender studies – the sole purpose of this “change” is to take the focus off women/females, to reeducate and reinforce sex differences, to reindoctrinate females/women to their rightful place in a patriarchy. It is about men and their penises in women protected spaces like womens shelters, womens health centers, domestic violence shelters, restrooms, locker rooms, prisons, mental health facilities. it is about women being raped and beaten in their own safe spaces.

    Inclusion is about men being able to self identify as a female. It used to be that men had to have gender dysphoria and body dysphoria which meant they wanted to alter their bodies so their internal view of themselves match the external view. Nowadays, they don dresses, makeup and heels and call themselves female but relish their penis which the world is supposed to see as a female organ, and with which impregnate their female/transman partners. The vast majority of them dont bother even giving lip service to body dysphoria anymore.

    Inclusion means no one has the right to question what is between their legs anymore because it is what is in their heads that count. Any “transwomen” who wont answer to their genitalia still has and uses their penis.

    Inclusion means a generation of children and adolescents being instructed that their biology is meaningless, when, in reality, it is an integral part of who they are and what they will experience in life. It is a generation being taught to be confused about the difference between their sex (biology) and how they express their sex (gender).

    Inclusion means undermining the very essence of female, the female experience, and the female reality. It is just another way to oppress and divide women. And we all know or should know, divide and conquer is a patriarchal technique of control.

    I became a radical feminist because it is the only ideology that focuses solely and squarely on females. It cares about all females because we are female. It sees females for who and what they are and the reality we live. It stands up for womens rights and womens reality. It knows what internalized misogyny and sexism looks like. It teaches us to free ourselves from the shackles that have been imposed on us. Its principles do not vary and are not subject to individual interpretation.

    I became a radical feminist because it is the only feminism that does not undermine females. It does not enable and buy into male delusions and illusions and fetishes. It doesnt require me to play nice with or compromise myself or other females for the sake of those who still oppress me and other females.

    I am a radical lesbian feminist and I am damn proud of it.

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