Creator of Michfest Boycott Emily Dievendorf Resigns as Executive Director of Equality Michigan

April 14, 2015

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Emily Dievendorf- creator of the largest anti-Lesbian boycott in history

This afternoon Equality Michigan announced that Executive Director Emily Dievendorf has resigned. The surprise announcement comes on the heels of the withdrawal of support by The National Center for Lesbian Rights and The National LGBTQ Task Force for the controversial anti-Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival boycott authored by Dievendorf last year.

Dievendorf, a “Bisexual Rights” activist partnered with a male, organized the contentious boycott against members of the lesbian community who support the iconic annual 40-year-strong women-only music festival. The boycott targeted Lesbian artists, Lesbian musicians, and Lesbian vendors, as well as attendees of the event, calling for a financial attack on the women’s livelihoods. The justification for this boycott was Equality Michigan’s claim that lesbianism is a form of discrimination against male people, and that affinity groups based on the female experience are unfairly discriminatory against males. Last August, Dievendorf persuaded many national organizations that had formerly purported to advocate for lesbians to join the Equality Michigan campaign against Lesbian and Women’s Rights.

Since that time, Equality Michigan and all the signatories of the boycott have experienced a hemorrhaging of support, both financial and volunteer, from lesbians and the allies of lesbians and women. In effect, the boycott of lesbians and women resulted in the opposite effect: a withdrawal of support from the so-called “LGBT” organizations by the lesbians being boycotted. Somehow, this came as a big surprise to these organizations, who had long ago abandoned lesbian and women’s interests yet apparently believed that the ongoing, foundational, steady support of the very women fueling their “LGBT” orgs would continue even if they were targeted, insulted, and their livelihoods harmed. Finally, last week, NCLR and The Task Force, two of the largest signatories of the boycotts, publicly withdrew their names.

Two months ago, Dievendorf posted a muddled, confused statement on Facebook expressing her puzzlement over the withdrawal of lesbian support from her now formally anti-lesbian organization. It read:

 “Some days, when I get a ways into opening the Equality Michigan mail I get a little shaky and I know it is because I’m scared. There is a common theme in the hate mail. Sure there are religious fanatics. We are used to those. But mostly in the last year the mail is from angry lesbians (stay with me, we love our lesbians). Returning donor cards with the donation amount space empty and the card full of nastiness. Repetitive messages about how Equality Michigan, that does so much work on so many issues for all the communities in the LGBT – and has never paused in that work, will not get another cent of support until we stop supporting the transgender

community so strongly. They say we are trying to make women’s spaces unsafe by asking that Trans women be allowed entrance and acceptance. (When they say so they are saying that “womyn born womyn,” i.e. women born with vaginas, are unsafe without a space separate from trans women even if some of the women taking this position claim to acknowledge trans women ARE women). I have even had one person say “Why does everything have to be about “transgender people” as if the least represented and most targeted of our communities is suddenly getting showered with attention and resources to the point of getting spoiled. Those are the least ugly messages.

I’m told we will get starved of our resources until we reorder our priorities to make lesbian separatist spaces, exclusionary of trans people, equal in urgency as trans rights on our agenda. One donor after another, dropping like flies. But here’s the thing, I WANT women to have safe spaces to go to, and I celebrate and appreciate that so many women have found that space in Michfest. I want them to continue to find that space in Michfest. But so many women can’t find that space in Michfest because trans or no, it is clear that “too different” is not welcome. There are oh so many categories and experiences of women who are celebrated at Michfest and then there are those who are conspicuously left out and the message received is “all are valid except for YOU.” VALID. And how terrible when trans women are the number one group in the queer community to get that message from the world to the point of harassment, violent crime, homelessness, and murder. At the festival that offers so many women such comfort and empowerment for just one week a year I think the least we can do is let the most vulnerable know that we know they are one of US. They are VALID. They are WELCOME in our space. That we will not single them out as less than and not enough like the rest of the world on every other day does, because to a great extent we know too much how that feels.

And I admit that on days like today I’m scared. Because part of the work I do is to help all LGBTQ people who need to keep their jobs and to get married and adopt their kids. And part of what we do is to protect kids from getting bullied and to make sure they can get insurance for their partners when they are lucky enough to fall in love. And part of what we do is to try to finally make it so somebody’s HIV status isn’t used against them. But part of what we do is also to work with the police when they are pulling body parts out of dumpsters. And most of the time those victims are trans people. And part of what we do is to get prosecutors to take a bloody beating seriously because a handful of guys thought somebody looked too feminine on their walk home from pride. When so often their only mistake was being themselves, being trans and trying to survive or wanting to express themselves with some kickass long hair. We need to fight for them too. Trans people are US as much as anybody else in the larger LGBTQ community.

This last year Equality Michigan and Many of our allies across the country decided that the least we can do is say that trans people matter, and trans women and trans men and gender queer people deserve to be safe and to be recognized for who they are, and declaring that is just the beginning of what we as advocates need to do to help put trans issues high on the agenda, start to get out of the way more often and pull out chairs and offer that seat at the table. CREATE more seats at the table.

So today I see some dollars fall away but I’m only afraid of what that means we can’t do to help EVERYONE. Because that is what non-profit funding is for. Individual donations are where so much stability comes from. I am not in doubt of what we stood up for. I adore my trans friends and who they TRULY authentically are and where we are going together. They should be able to be safe being themselves.

I want to make clear that I’m not pigeonholing our wonderful lesbian community. Just that there is a common thread with a small group. I want what they want to a point. I want the safe space to continue and thrive. I just want everyone there, celebrating each other, bonded in the security of womanhood.

Emily”

Roughly twenty comments responded to her post, nearly all from men, none from Michfest supporters. “I wonder if you could tell them that your actions of inclusion of trans-gender people adds influence to the overall cause and secures the civil rights for all,” one clueless commenter offered hopefully.

Typical boycott supporter

Boycott Supporter

Equality Michigan, under Dievendorf’s direction, sought to destroy a legendary multi-generational lesbian and women’s event, and the financial solvency of the women who support it, because for five days a year the needs and tribulations of males were not being served by those women.

All of the organizations that joined her in this boycott knew full well that they were calling for the destruction of lesbian culture and the destruction of women’s businesses and incomes on the sole basis that they supported an annual event based on an affinity group comprised of those of us born female.

How could organizations which claim to support the welfare of “LGBT” people stray so far a-field of the rights and needs of their lesbian constituency? How could national LGBT organizations be so tone-deaf that they failed to anticipate that lesbians would not respond well to the destruction of their communities, culture, and personal incomes? And why has this increasingly occurred over the last decade?

The answer is that lesbian voices have been nearly totally silenced, especially on the internet. Our voices are censored and deleted the moment they appear. On high-volume LGBT websites. On “Feminist” websites now moderated by men. When we start our own websites we are inundated by hate mail, stalked, threatened, hacked, google-bombed, recipients of censorship campaigns and petitions, we are doxxed, our home addresses published, our children threatened with death.

The very organizations that claim to represent us censor us. Ironically, when The Task Force announced last week the withdrawal of their organization from the Dievendorf Boycott nearly every lesbian comment was removed from their Facebook announcement within 24 hours by the man they tasked to do so. Hundreds of peaceable, thoughtful, lesbian and women’s comments removed.

Only the men remain.

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249 Responses to “Creator of Michfest Boycott Emily Dievendorf Resigns as Executive Director of Equality Michigan”

  1. GallusMag Says:

    Good Riddance. Don’t let the door hit you on the ass.

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      Let us pray (dear goddess) she’s not going to go work for Hillary Clinton’s campaign. If so we might be saying President Cruz and that is terrifying.

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        I had a thought about the timing of all this – I wonder if the distancing from the boycott petition and Dievendorf’s resignation are related to the Planet Fitness case – and it IS a case now, with Yvette Cormier as plaintiff – MichFest and Carlotta-in-the-locker-room are both in Michigan.

        “Carlotta” has made his sexual interests/fantasy world known online – and in the context of Carlotta’s own statements, yes, HIS being in the locker room IS a violation of women’s rights, it’s expecting women to participate WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT (sorry for all caps) in his sexual fantasy.

        I think there might have been some extra pressure applied in the face of the Planet Fitness incident – somebody or some people who absolutely will not allow themselves to be associated in any way with supporting the “Carlottas” of this world. And because it’s a legal case now, NCLR/Task Force wanted to just get the frick out of there before the whole thing blows up. I myself, no legal expert, or even professional, I think Cormier’s case could keep going higher and higher up the judicial food chain. And the higher it goes, the more publicity it gets.

        Maybe NCLR/Task Force know something about Carlotta situation that we don’t know. Just find it interesting, although I feel I’m maybe being too suspicious, reading too much into thing. Just the timing, that’s all.

    • Bev Jo Says:

      Thank you so much for this, Gallus Mag! Sharing in our groups….

      “We love our Lesbians.” We do not belong to her. Men appropriate us and think they own us and so do some women like this bisexual who is choosing a man.

      All this is making the reality of the trans cult and their supporters clear to those women who didn’t understand it before.

      • KgSch Says:

        Exactly! I don’t remember agreeing to belong to this lesbian-hating women. Bisexual women like her do oppress lesbians. Also, I am not fucking queer. I am a lesbian.

        And oh, boo frickedy hoo, she got some angry letters from lesbians as a result of her lesbian-hating behavior. Come crying to me when trans cultists stalk you online and threaten to rape you and cut off your genitals, and then maybe I’ll have a little bit of sympathy Emily. This is not limited to online threats, by the way. But yeah, trans “women” are exactly like women because women have dicks and threaten to rape other women with their dicks all the time when women say no to them. (*sarcasm*)

        And please, the blogger Motherhood already wrote a great post discrediting the made of violence statistics that trans claim affect them. Last I checked, black people are the most likely people to be murdered in this country. And of course, all women are at risk from male violence.

  2. GallusMag Says:

    A parting gift:

  3. Miep Says:

    Time to go back to kindergarten and learn about body parts, Emily. “Kickass long hair” =/= “female.”

    Gallus, your phrase about “hemorrhaging support” seems unclear, though I understand your intent in context, i.e. an exodus of support.

    [I changed it slightly. Hope that helps. Thank you. -GM]

    • No name Says:

      I wonder if gay men are getting on board with this as well?
      It is wonderful news though, I am glad the attack on the L has ceased from at least these orgs.
      Lesbians are Identified as born females that are gay. This naturally excludes males. That is called ‘homosexuality’, not violence. The boundary is already identified.

      Not to mention it is the perfect cover for sexual assault in women’s safe spaces- which has already happened in a Canadian shelter after trans activism.

      It is bizarre in the first place that Now there are other ‘adults’ with straight/bi preferences ridiculing homosexual women for not giving dick with doily a chance. Lesbian is another female adults’ sexual orientation, not a sex identity club that is being unfair for not letting men participate.

      What is all the activism focused on taking children away from their parents to place with ‘persons’ in the LBGT[maybe just the T]?, I sure don’t support that, -That could be dangerous for children.

      What is this ‘getting men in a better position to assault women and children more easily’- type of activism? There are responsible male gay parents that would raise red flags with;

      I have 0 interest in helping males get straight sex in gay spaces as ‘gay activism’, or helping pedos/rapists get easier access to women & children with a good excuse that no one is allowed to ask what they are doing, what they hope to accomplish by this campaign, or question woman/childs safety that may be affected by their actions at any time.

      It is ‘Red Flag activism’. One red flag after another..

      This is modern gay activism? The gay community[now the LBGTWTF] needs to clean itself up from these harmful campaigns before I participate in it ever again. I will gladly spend any money for woman-only events, [when I have it].

      • gaydude50 Says:

        Gay men really aren’t on board, but I don’t think it is out of solidarity with creepy autogynephiles. I think it’s mostly because gay men’s experience of transwomen is almost all gay men who transitioned. Still have all the male privilege but the gay transitioners seem a lot less odious overall to gay men – they still become gross parodies of women.

        I’m sure there is a better way of expressing this. But for right now, they don’t see the threat. And let’s also be honest, gay men generally don’t give a shit about lesbians.

  4. AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

    This is a savvy career move for Dievendorf. Now she can go start a brand-new group, Transquality, and pour her energy into the issues that really matter to her – men’s.

  5. neme Says:

    Brilliant post, Gallus.


  6. It’s sad that this women is so male centered. But I’m happy that lesbians showed them that they are fed up with their bullshit.

  7. marymacha Says:

    “I WANT women to have safe spaces to go to, and I celebrate and appreciate that so many women have found that space in Michfest. I want them to continue to find that space in Michfest. But so many women can’t find that space in Michfest because trans or no, it is clear that “too different” is not welcome. There are oh so many categories and experiences of women who are celebrated at Michfest and then there are those who are conspicuously left out and the message received is “all are valid except for YOU.” VALID. And how terrible when trans women are the number one group in the queer community to get that message from the world to the point of harassment, violent crime, homelessness, and murder.”

    I have to wonder if this person has ever actually been to Michigan.

    Note how she effortlessly transitions from “Michigan is safe-space for women” to “transwomen are vilified and murdered”. She does it in such a way that it ends up conflating the two. From here to “lesbians are murdering transwomen” is only one, short neuron hop away.

    I’m really devastated by how divisive this issue has become. A few years ago I would’ve said I was pretty indifferent to the whole topic but a firm supporter of civil rights for all. Now I can only say the latter as long as we understand “rights” will never trump freedom of association. I suspect that if this made it all the way to the SCOTUS, MichFest would win. Remember, your rights end where mine begin.

    • neme Says:

      The people who attack michfest have never been part of lesbian culture. Don’t they realise they would feel out of place there, not due to ‘hate’ from lesbians, but because as feminists we have a different culture? I just realized… it’s Milton’s Paradise Lost. Large numbers of males, straights and the pornsick invading michfest would destroy what makes it safe and sacred. So their desire to be included will never be attained. Their presence makes the sacred evaporate. It’s impossible for them to win.

      For awhile I feared they would win. Now I know they never will. Even if our festivals have to change shape and go back to being more underground, we will survive this. But now I know it won’t come to that. We will outlast this trend.

      • No name Says:

        People who attack mitchfest do not believe women can be gay if you find men for them.


      • I have an idea. If trans women want to come to Michfest then they should behave like normal human beings there. If they behave like pigs – then all their actions should be documented and displayed for everyone to see.

        This will educate women who don’t know about the gross nature of many of these guys, helps women to know which one of these monsters to avoid if they meet them there, can prevent other negative incidents because now it’s known which dudes do disgusting thinds and might protect Fest from other pigs who wanted to go there and

        I mean who wants to go to an event where every single gross behaviour is documented?

    • Larichus Says:

      Kind of makes you wonder if the whole RFRA thing is Indiana might’ve been a strategic mistake. Once you destroy freedom of association for anyone, how will there be freedom of association for stuff like MichFest?

      • GallusMag Says:

        No homophobe dumbass, Michfest is a private event not a public business.
        God the right wing homophobes in my mentions.
        Hey dumbass: What will you do when you are waiting for a bus and start going into a diabetic coma and and a pro-gay anti-homophobe restaurant refuses to serve you orange juice and you die. Huh? Stupid ass politicker.

  8. weirdward Says:

    Note how when she does actually talk about violence against trans people “pulling bodies out of dumpsters”, she is talking about MALE violence. Lesbians are not murdering trans people and dumping their bodies in dumpsters. If transpeople don’t have their own safe spaces, then it is up to them to create them, just as every other marginalised and oppressed group has done. It’s not the job of lesbians to take care of non-conformist men and let them into our spaces, especially when it is so blatantly obvious many of them are a danger to us.

    Though of course the other wildcard here is, how many of those murdered people actually identified as trans? We’ve all seen how the trans movement loves to trans the dead, claiming victims who were in actuality gay, lesbian, or just looked gender non-conforming whilst still seeing themselves as belonging to their birth sex.

    Also, we do not have to expand the definition of women to include men who feel like women. That’s just idiotic.

    And that smug little “stay with me, we love our lesbians” – in brackets no less – pretty much tells me right there how much this woman despises lesbians.

    • Juliana D Says:

      I agree with your comment, but I read this quote several times trying to understand the context:

      “But part of what we do is also to work with the police when they are pulling body parts out of dumpsters. And most of the time those victims are trans people.”

      Is she saying that most murders are of trans people? Or that most “LGBT” victims of murder are trans? Or that particularly heinous murders (body parts in dumpsters) are of trans people?

      I am confused on her point.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      A slight correction to your wonderful post, Weirdward – Dievendorf wrote “…when they are pulling body parts out of dumpsters.” Because trans people getting chopped up happens so very often, you see. She had to over-dramatize it in an effort to make us feel even guiltier. But all of us here have become quite astute at spotting the micro-lies of the twanz movement, which of course add to the mountain.


    • …. burn:

      “There are oh so many categories and experiences of women”

      She forgot the *eyeroll*. Why are misogynists so eager to infiltrate the women’s community?

      I agree with all the points in this blog.

      It’s absolutely ridiculous that people think any male who decides he’s female should be welcomed in private spaces for women.

      Seriously, have they not thought this through???

      I used to be indifferent to trans, but now I think they’re mentally ill.

      Women at least listen and validate one another. Transwomen just attack and defend.

      Transitioning is a lifelong thing…requiring constant upkeep and new surgeries. So many things can go wrong…irreversibly.

      It’s sad that people would rather butcher their own bodies rather than not conform.

      I grew up in the era of Annie Lennox, David Bowie, and Prince. Androgyny is cool….and sexy.

      I miss that era.

      I’m sure these folks would have recommended to my parents that I transition as a child since I looked and dressed like a boy.

      That would have been a horrible mistake. I love being female…I wouldn’t trade it for the world. I don’t want to play King of the hill with alpha males.

      Maybe transwomen don’t, either. They’d be better off changing masculine gender roles rather than operating on their bodies.

      Maybe some are just plastic surgery fetishists. Like that lady who wanted her face to look like a cat. Some of these guys want to look like anime characters.

      I feel sorry for them. In my experience, happiness comes from inside. Maybe that’s why they’re so mean…they think how they look/pass will make them happy.

      Maybe for a fleeting instant in the right lighting they “pass” for female.

      They want something that is impossible, and throwing temper tantrums till they get it. They’d be better off accepting themselves as they are, and changing gender stereotypes.

      Thank you so much for this awesome blog!

      • marymacha Says:

        “I don’t want to play King of the hill with alpha males. Maybe transwomen don’t, either.”

        I’ve wondered about this too. My version looks more like: they don’t want to compete with other men and be the beta guy among alpha males so they try to elbow their way into women’s spaces where they can be more prominent.

    • Guls Says:

      ..And most of the body parts are trans.. apparently? How is that even possible? A demographic approximately 1% of the population accounts for MOST murders? More to the point who could even believe such tosh? The same kinda folks who fail to recognise ‘womanly penis’ as an oxymoron. ..

      I also never realised that when I grew out my hair as a teen – and got called a girl and beat up for it – that I was in fact being a tranny! Silly me I thought I was just a bloke with long hair. Doh!

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        In 2014, the total number of murdered trans people worldwide was 226.

        226. *Worldwide*. And yet this woman claims that “most of” the murdered bodies/body parts she’s called to look at are of trans people?

        Who TF are these police, anyway? First, if “most of” the bodies she’s called to look at are trans, are they Interpol? Because most of the murders of trans people take place in countries other than the US. Is this woman being flown to Argentina to look at body parts?

        And aside from that ridiculous notion, why exactly are ANY law enforcement agents inviting random citizens to come view body parts and get involved in murder investigations? Is this some special privilege you gain when you become a high-ranking employee in a glbTTTT organization? Do you become a Special Deputy in the Homicide Department as part of the job? Does your experience in fundraising somehow qualify you to investigate crimes? What crapsack Homicide Detective arrives at a crime scene and says, “Man, we better get an administrator for a charitable organization in here to crack this case, because this is way beyond our scope?” Are the police in the habit of notifying any civilian who might have an interest in the circumstances of the victim to come on down and take a gander at some severed arms in a dumpster? Where do I sign up to be part of this secret Citizen’s Investigative Committee? Do I have to live in Keystone, or can I just put my name on a worldwide list of People Who Can Be Shown Body Parts And Given Access To Confidential Police Information About Open Investigations? Do I need extra clearance to join the Come Play In Our Crime Scenes Because That’s Totally Appropriate And Fine Group? Should I accept the grateful thanks of defense attorneys now, or do I have to wait until they’ve used my presence at the scene to shit all over the investigation and the prosecutor’s case?

        I’m not saying trans people deserve to die or that their deaths don’t matter. They matter as much as any other death. But this bullshit “trans people are constantly targeted, so much more than gay men or lesbians or straight women or men or anyone else” stuff needs to stop. Even a cursory look at the Transgender Day of Remembrance page shows that most of those murders–tragic as they are–are not hate crimes, they’re partner violence. In other words, dudes, being a woman isn’t all high heels and lipstick. You want to be one of us? You insist you ARE one of us? Well, then, some people will treat you just like a woman, which means they will beat you, rape you, rob you, and kill you.

        The difference is, when it happens to you it’ll be treated as an international tragedy and proof that trans people are the most vulnerable people on the planet, but when it happens to a real woman it’s just another day.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Murder rates of transgender males are lower than that of the general population.

        http://www.lifeisgoodmakeitbetter.com/2015/03/the-appropriation-of-black-and-hispanic.html

        “There’s not a lot of information out there regarding the trans prevalence rate, or how many trans people there are in any given population. I’ve previously used a 1:3,000 rate that represents the estimated prevalence of post-op or SRS seeking trans women (based on work Lynn Conway did with SRS data from western European studies). That’s an extremely conservative lowerbound (a bare minimum) that undercounts the trans population as not all trans people can access or even want SRS. Conway thinks 1:500 is probably a better guess, but the Williams Institute’s .3% rate is even higher at 1:333. The range for ‘transitioning in some part’ seems to be somewhere between .1% and .5%, while the broader gender non-conforming umbrella could be as high as 1-2%. If we use .3% that’d mean there are about 800k trans people in the United States over the age of 12 (320m Americans * 84% who are over age 12 * .3% trans prevalence rate).

        According to the FBI, the violent crime rate in the United States is 387 for every 100,000 people while the homicide rate is 4.7 per 100,000. And yes, I’m aware hate crimes are known to be under reported – and that trans crimes are poorly covered (if at all) in the media, making other forms of tracking pretty difficult.

        Applying the FBI’s 4.7 homicides per 100,000 means we’d expect to see ~38 trans murders a year if the rates were identical to that of the general population (4.7 * 8). That’s three times as many trans deaths as were actually recorded in 2014. Keep in mind that if you use a higher trans prevalence rate, you’d expect even more murders. Doubling the prevalence rate from .3% to .6% means you’d expect there to be ~76 trans murders per year.”

      • GallusMag Says:

        According to TransLifeline operator Greta Gustava Martela (formerly known as Kjel Anderson) the suicide rates for transgender people are also far below that of the general population:

        http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/03/17/op-ed-ignoring-trans-suicide-not-responsible-reporting

        “The overall suicide attempt rate for transgender people is 41 percent, according to the National Center for Transgender Equality’s groundbreaking report Injustice at Every Turn. This percentage rises in an intersectional way: that is, if you are trans and a person of color, the likelihood that you have struggled with suicide is higher. If you are trans and a person of color and you’ve been bullied in school, it’s even higher. A small amount of spotty math shows the problem.

        We don’t know for sure how many of the roughly 105 people who commit suicide every day are trans, but we do know that it is a minimum of 2 percent, according to the Transgender Law Center. Using those numbers as a jumping-off point, we would expect to see two trans suicides a day.

        My math isn’t the strongest, but it looks to me like the five reported suicides of trans people in the first three months of 2015 have more to do with an uptick in reporting around trans suicide rather than an actual increase in the number of trans people taking their lives.”

      • shediogenes Says:

        But I thought 1 of every 12 trans people was murdered. If there are conservatively 800,000, then 66,666 of those have been or will be murdered. At 4.7 percent homicide rates, roughly 15,000 total murders every year, well it just boggles the mind how many body parts these activists must be collecting from dumpsters, I mean really. Is it possible, could it be the tranz murder rate exceeds the rate of total number of murders?

        Let’s see, total # of trans, multiply by average expected lifetime, again by annual homicide rate, factor in 1 in 12 homicide rate of trans, hmmm carry the 2. Nope, I cant do it, math… its too transphobic.

        I believe it was culturallyboundgender that actually did a break down of trans claimed murder rates. (That is, their claim that members of trans community are VICTIMS of homicide, not the rate at which they commit murder, which is a rate of zero, because being misgendered made them do it and they aren’t responsible for what they did before transition, and their victims were really their antagonizers who didn’t do women as well as they did, so those bitches don’t count)

        Goddess help me

      • KgSch Says:

        @Dorothy Mantooth

        I am also curious how this woman gets to view body parts in the dumpster because I would like to be part of the secret crime scene squad. I really just think she’s a liar.

        ****

        The trans cult loves to steal the dead and claim that lesbians, gays, and anyone slightly gender-nonconforming was trans. Either way, the crime statistics are completely made up and are not as high as they claim. Men impersonating women do not have a high murder rate than lesbians and gays and it is certainly not higher than the murder rate black people experience. Not to mention, most trans were murdered in ways that are typical of intimate partner violence (hey, I thought you all wanted to be treated like women) or sometimes are just part of a crime gone wrong, NOT in a hate crime way.

        Most importantly though, it is not and never will be women’s responsibility to protect men from other men! When men aren’t attacking each other they are attacking women! There are a million examples on this blogs of men who impersonate women committing male-typical violence against women, and then wanting to hide behind us and expect us to protect them. Men have more resources than women and many of these trannies are in IT or STEM positions that are impossible for most women to get into. They can make there own spaces just like women did in the 60s and 70s despite being so financially limited.

        (Yes, I called them trannies. I will stop when they stop calling me and my sisters names like bitch, whore, cis, cunt, fish, and when they stop threatening to rape, torture, terrorize, and murder us and actually doing these things. They are male terrorists.)

        Right now, there are almost no organizations that help lesbians only and alphabet soup organizations don’t do jack for us; in fact they oppress us. We did use to have lots of women-only and lesbian-only space and we could have it again if male-identified traitors like Emily Dievendorf weren’t back-stabbing us at every turn. Oh, and she’s bisexual but partnered with a man (so she gets to claim to be oppressed for being “queer” while getting all the het privilege possible) and she hates lesbians and refers to us as her possessions. Big freaking shock.

        This whole issue is not confusing at all! Men cannot be women and women cannot be men! None of you would take me seriously if I claimed to be a different race or species than what I was so why should men claiming to be women who infiltrate Mitchfest and flash their dicks at underage girls be considered women? These men are more male than many garden variety het men I have met because they are in constant rapist mode of not taking no for an answer. Despite what many mainstream feminists claim, men and women are different both genetically and in our minds (not that that means that oppressive sex roles are based in reality). Why else would these dudes try so hard to destroy women and lesbian space if women and men were exactly the same?

        People need to wake up and realize most trans are not sad gay dudes, but violent heterosexual males.

        Oh, and so no one gets confused, I am not trying to claim that Emily Dievendorf is a trans man/tranny or any such nonsense by calling her “male-identified”. I am simply saying that she chooses men over women and it is very obvious looking at her behavior.

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        @KgSch Right? I would love to be a Citizen Investigator. I think I’d be great at it. I mean, it’s not like the police have to go through any special training or education, or have any experience to be detectives, so why shouldn’t any random person with an interest be allowed to come help out? I see it all the time, police inviting passersby to come have a peek at the corpse (or corpse parts) in situ. There’s nothing inappropriate about that at all.

        Seriously, though. I agree. That’s not the truth. (Especially when a search for trans murders in Michigan did turn up a few–partner violence, basically, from what I read–but none which involved chopped-up bodies. My search was cursory, I admit, but I think that would have shown up.)

        And I’m a straight woman, and even I can see how lesbians are sidelined and ignored in the mainstream movement that’s supposed to represent them.

    • weirdward Says:

      Pulling not just bodies, but body parts out of dumpsters. How often is this happening? Is there a serial killer on the loose? There maybe needs to be a publicity campaign is this is really happening with any kind of regularity; that’s pretty extreme even for our screwed up violent society. And I’d echo what someone else asked – how much of this is to do with prostitution?

      • Dogtowner Says:

        How do you tell if a body part is trans?

        Dievendorf seems a very confused young person who perhaps needs some remedial courses in biology and criminology.

    • No name Says:

      Many guys willing to be gay4pay will crossdress and walk a street to pay bills if the cute-boy hustler scene is slow.

      Straight men with entire families that don’t give a f*ck, work as prostitutes for other males in Singapore. Many have breast implants & take hormones- and dress like Vegas show girls in glamorous dresses for the job, but they are just straight guys with great family incomes to their community.

  9. weirdward Says:

    And the other obvious question: Why not ask transpeople for money? Get them to pick up the slack – geez – they’re getting enough representation, it seems, that they should be giving something back. But no, lesbians are STILL the ones expected to give to this organisation, even whilst it crushes us and supports people who hate us. I don’t think so, lady.

  10. Lizzie Says:

    You know, as an actual bisexual person, I have no clue whatsoever what she’s talking about.

  11. kesher Says:

    It absolutely blows me away that the state of Michigan has no employment or housing protections for LGBT people, but “Equality” Michigan decided boycotting Michfest was the best possible use of their resources. A+ advocacy work there.

  12. Teal Deer Says:

    Her dreamy-eyed statement about wanting to be “bonded in the security of womanhood” is enough to paint her as bonkers, even if none of the rest of her nonsense did the trick. Since when is womanhood secure, in any context?


  13. Dear Emily, you are clearly anti-woman, anti-lesbian and pro-whatever men demand.

    Right from the start:

    hate mail … angry lesbians …full of nastiness.

    Women saying that they have a right to be left alone is not “hate”. Wonder if you ever spoke out against the actual hate, death threats and so on, directed at lesbians from trans males and their supporters ?

    They say we are trying to make women’s spaces unsafe by asking that Trans women be allowed entrance and acceptance.

    You are trying to make women’s spaces unsafe. Exactly

    “Why does everything have to be about “transgender people” as if the least represented and most targeted of our communities is suddenly getting showered with attention and resources to the point of getting spoiled.

    Trans males are spoilt. They are a minority in number but have and are given a huge amount of resources, including a platform and massive support for their misogyny.

    The group who in reality are least represented and most targeted are lesbians

    trans women and trans men and gender queer people deserve to be safe

    everyone deserves basic physical safety. No one deserves or is entitled to force their way into another person’s space, not for getting their egos stroked or any other reason.

    So today I see some dollars fall away but I’m only afraid of what that means we can’t do to help EVERYONE.

    Uh ? My best translation of this is lesbians should give you money that you can funnel towards male interests, and how “nasty” of them if they don’t.

    I WANT women to have safe spaces to go to

    No, you want men to be able to violate women’s boundaries

    the message received is “all are valid except for YOU.”

    whiny nonsense.

    we will not single them out as less than and not enough like the rest of the world on every other day does … I just want everyone there, celebrating each other, bonded in the security of womanhood.

    more whiny nonsense. You are demanding that lesbians should “celebrate” fetishistic (and very often violent) men because it makes you feel all warm and happy.

    Appalling.

    • Dogtowner Says:

      You’ve got it right there. I noticed how much of her post was about how SHE feels. Catering to transgender makes her feel good, working on getting legal protections in Michigan for actual lesbians does not.

  14. liberalsareinsane Says:

    “Dievendorf, a “Bisexual Rights” activist partnered with a male,”
    LMFAO. Aren’t they all.

  15. shediogenes Says:

    These assholes act as if Lesbians have never supported anything tranz related, ever, at any time. As if we dont support protections in housing, banking and employment, as if we wouldn’t have supported a gender-neutral bathroom campaign, as if our donations haven’t already been spent on GBT and more T initiatives. They really are clueless if they don’t realize trans have our support, but draw the line at watching our sister Lesbians suffer the onslaught against our culture and few remaining institutions. I am reaching the point that the continued attacks on Lesbians, the transing of our youth, the relentless erosion of our reasonable and necessary boundaries, is really sapping me of any sympathy whatsoever. Can’t get a job? a loan? an apartment? because you’re trans? Oh fucking well. You had my support, but it wasnt enough, you want your very own Lesbian Doormat. No sir, er ma’am, no, I mean sir.

    Next time tranz inc. has a fundraiser for top surgery, or to help someone hurt by anti-trans violence (violence committed by MEN)recover the hospital bills, I’m afraid I’m out. I’ll feel bad about it, I’ll think twice, but the wasted support I’ve already given, money and time which was then viviously turned against me and my Sisters, was yours to do with what you pleased, and this shit is what I got. Now these orgs and trans advocates are forcing me to spend twice as much time and money to bolster Lesbian spaces, womens spaces. Lesbians are going to have our hands full in the years to come supporting all the young poisoned bodies of detransitioning females and trying to rebuild our heritage to give young Lesbians visible, proud, strong alternatives to the trans agenda saturating the internet and leading them down a path to surgical and chemical mutilation at the most vulnerable part of their development.

    Maybe Lesbians pulling their support from these orgs wouldn’t have come as such a surprise to the mis-Leadership if we hadn’t been censored in the first place. I have no generosity for organizations that don’t consider women’s and Lesbians concerns, much less those that attack us, our space and our livelihood.

  16. australopithecene Says:

    It might be some consolation for her to know that if it had been trans she had crossed, those “hateful” letters would have been a fuckload worse.

  17. Kitty Barber Says:

    You love ‘your’ lesbians? How do you like us now? Poor Emily. Those nasty lesbos did it. It’s way past time that someone did. I think it’s amazing that she lasted this long.

  18. Ashland Avenue Says:

    The removal of all those women’s voices at the Taskforce’s Facebook page ironically speaks volumes. They are really adding fuel to the fire. 🙂

    Dievendorf is an active player in one of the oldest games on the patriarchy books – shaming women for not being a nurturing caretaker of all and sundry. I am the parent of a toddler, and I can’t tell you how many people have had the kindness to remind me to take time out for myself, in order to recharge – because caring for a very spirited (and adorable!) toddler can be quite draining. Most people realize that.

    And yet, when women seek a space to recharge from the male-dominated world, from all the male violence bombarding us both in real life and in the media, clueless idiots like Dievendorf are right there to shame us for not caretaking at the same time. Then she goes even further, equating not wanting men at MichFest as the same as saying they’re not “valid”.

    Valid as what? Human beings? I’ve never seen that stated here at GenderTrender. On the contrary, Gallus has corrected people who refer to trans people as “it” in their comments.

    If she means “valid” as women, then yes, I for one will stand behind that. They are men. I’m sorry they didn’t wish to be born that way, but they were. If, nevertheless, they wish to take on a stereotypically feminine appearance, then hey let your freak flag fly! Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness! But they are not women. And women having a boundary, saying “This space is by us, for us,” is NOT some unforgivable sin. It is creating a space for privacy, for recharging.

    And while Dievendorf, who is partnered with a male, may be glad to pull out chairs for men at the table, I’ve had to do that waaaaay too many times in my life. I wish to center women in my life now. And I too should be allowed my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

    t/l; dr: Dievendorf, and women like you, and trans people: get off my tit. I’m not your mother.

  19. Ashland Avenue Says:

    One other thing – the money I have that could’ve gone to the LGBTQ Task Force or NCLR? I just donated it to Gallus instead. She’s the one giving us a voice, and not expecting us to pull out chairs for men. Suck on that, NCLR (once you get that dick outta your mouth, that is).

    • Survivorthriver Says:

      I signed up for a small monthly contribution here, too. Recurring contributions are valuable because folks tend to keep it going and GM can make some plans rather than fluctuating one-time gifts. Join her recurring monthly gift club today! 🙂


  20. Only the men remain…

    It’s baffling to me why these people consider the withdrawal of women’s support a total surprise. It’s like ‘Oh, I didn’t expect you ladies who are constantly cleaning up after men’s violence to do this!’

    It’s the old canard of ‘bend over and take it ladies!’

    Uh, no.

  21. hearthrising Says:

    This looks significant, coming on the heels of the NCLR and Task Force withdrawing from the boycott. Thank you to all women who have supported women by letting these organizations know that they have lost us. Thank you Gallus. Thanks to all women standing up for truth and women’s rights.

  22. elfkat Says:

    Reblogged this on Adventures and Musings of an Arch Druidess and commented:
    Finally!

  23. Ashland Avenue Says:

    And yeah, “Stay with me, we love our lesbians.”

    FUCK. YOU.

    She says that, and then goes on to lecture lesbians on how we should be pulling out chairs for men at our private spaces, at every event we hold. If we don’t, we’re not being nice girls. Or something.

    So here we have this ultra-femme presenting person who when she goes out with her BOYFRIEND (or is it husband?), surely enjoys het privilege here there and everywhere, jumping on the lesbian-bashing bandwagon and telling us we’re not doing it right because we don’t want to look at dicks at MichFest or our lockerrooms. And maybe we’d like to have support groups that are for women only. The utter gall of us!

    So, when is Dievendorf going to start hectoring the organizers of Bohemian Grove? Or organizers of mens’ support groups? She won’t. It’s just easier to go after the women. SSDD.

    • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

      “We love our lesbians. We just don’t like those dirty nasty evil whorish ones who refuse to cater to men the way good women should.”

      • Survivorthriver Says:

        “And, we luvs our lesbians as long as they don’t question the authority of the male-tinged hierarchical alpha female colluding with men the way good women should.”

      • neme Says:

        “We especially love the ones in all that porn we watch with our husbands. But we don’t love those mean, bigoted dykes who refuse to have a threesome with us. I mean I went to all that trouble to find her and get her home, all by myself. Then she had the nerve to leave when my husband tried to join in! But please send us money. Together we can create a world that welcomes all men, and silences and shuns the evil dykes who once rejected them!”

      • GallusMag Says:

        We love the sensible type. The sexay! Not the hairy legged type that doesn’t keep themselves up. Or the mannish ones who really need a few shots of T to be fixed.

  24. Oak and Ash Says:

    In my own circle, the women quickest to leap to the defense of transwomen are those who call themselves bisexual and are partnered with men. What’s with that?

    As someone who’s straight, I’ve been reluctant to criticize these women, but they seem to want the best of both worlds–to keep the advantages of having a male partner while still calling themselves LGBTQ. Perhaps their extreme support of transwomen is just an attempt to maintain credibility, but even to an outsider like me it looks as if they’re willing to discard Lesbians in favor of those who have more power.

    If transpeople need a festival, they can organize one. Wouldn’t that answer Emily’s call to create more seats at the table? And why is it always women’s job to make sure everyone has a seat?

    • Loup-loup garou Says:

      Back in the early to mid nineties, when adding the B to the GL was still controversial, there was this perception that bisexuals and trans individuals were natural allies. (Because they weren’t entirely welcome in gay and lesbian spaces, and because their sexuality or identity had to do with both sexes in some way.)

      There used to be a sort of fledgling bi movement; bisexuals were trying to organize their own events and spaces. A lot of transitioners showed up at those, regardless of orientation, because (they said, probably truthfully) they had no events of their own. I have the impression the old bi movement is gone — it’s been swallowed up by “queer.”

      I wonder, though, if this reflexive support for trans issues on the part of bi women is a holdover from those days.

      • born free & female Says:

        “There used to be a sort of fledgling bi movement; bisexuals were trying to organize their own events and spaces. A lot of transitioners showed up at those, regardless of orientation, because (they said, probably truthfully) they had no events of their own. I have the impression the old bi movement is gone — it’s been swallowed up by “queer.””

        I just want to echo this – it was precisely my experience as someone who organized bisexual events back in the 90s.

      • Oak and Ash Says:

        Thanks–I didn’t know this history.


    • “If transpeople need a festival, they can organize one.”

      They’re too transphobic to do that.

      Seriously…they prefer the company of real women, not other men in drag.

      How many M2Ts hook up and have hot, porno “lesbian” sex together?

      My guess is few. Not even they can get it up for a dude in a dress.

      • Loup-loup garou Says:

        Mr. Garrison’s probably the only one…

      • gchild Says:

        “Not even they can get it up for a dude in a dress.” Lol.

        Why is this? Why are they not attracted to each other for the most part? Does anyone think this may be at the heart of the issue? Why many MTT’s who are transbians want access to women’s BODIES, not just womens spaces?


      • “Why is this? Why are they not attracted to each other for the most part?”

        Because they are heterosexual men and narcisstic hypocrites. They expect women to be attracted to them while they would never look twice at another “lesbian” mtf.

      • kesher Says:

        I think it’s pretty clear.

        Most people’s sexual attraction is sex-based, not gender-based. And while transbians get very upset when lesbians don’t validate their womanhood, their own sexual attractions are the same as any other straight dude’s.

        Who I find interesting are the transbians who do hook up with each other, even marry each other.

    • kesher Says:

      One hypothesis that I have, aside from het-partnered women prioritizing men in their lives, is that bisexual and straight women take femininity more seriously. They think that choosing to be feminine, even if it’s the most superficial aspects such as makeup and clothes, somehow says something about the person doing it.

      The women I know who unquestioningly support MTTs seem to assume that all MTTs want to be ultrafeminine, that all are attractive as women, and that they don’t behave like men. Any examples of MTTs looking as ugly as men and acting as misogynistic and violent as men are handwaved away.

      I also wonder to what degree women like Dievendorf haven’t personally experienced much or any male pattern violence in their own lives. I think it’s much harder to ignore male violence (“even” when it’s coming from an MTT) if you’ve previously been the victim of it.

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        Yes. In fairness to those women, that’s the “face” of MTT that they’re presented with: a delicate, shy, sweet little thing, probably homosexual (it always shocks me when I see how many people still assume these men are all gay). He’s like a Gay Male Best Friend, but one louder! He’s an even better GMBF, because he won’t ignore us when the other gay guys show up–he actually NEEDS us! This is what we see in mainstream media, the guy who was constantly beaten up in school for being gay/feminine and took refuge with the girls who truly understood him and etc. Of course he’s harmless! He’s just one of the girls! What woman could possibly object to this darling, stylish, loving person who just wants to belong?

        I also think that our general culture today is so focused on proving our open-minded credentials and mercilessly berating and abusing anyone who doesn’t necessarily agree, that any woman with any doubts knows damn well she’d better keep them to herself and toe the party line in public, at least. If she doesn’t the best outcome she can hope for is to simply have her comments deleted and her username/IP banned; the worst she can expect is to be threatened, abused, and possibly doxxed. If a woman wants to be seen as smart and fun and cool, she’ll insist that “trans women are WOMEN!” even if inside she has her doubts.

      • shediogenes Says:

        The heads of these organizations only see the MTT when they are on their best behavior.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        Do bisexual and straight women take femininity more seriously? I really don’t know. I’m uncomfortable with anyone heavy into gender roles, and where I live in rural Maine everyone pretty much dresses the same: jeans and T-shirts, and if you really don’t care how you look, baggy sweats or stretch pants. I used to live in the East Village in NY, and I remember a lot of very feminine lesbians at events. The women no man can believe are lesbians! How silly stereotypes can be.

      • Oak and Ash Says:

        @Kesher–I travel in academic/creative circles where my straight, middle-aged peers and I don’t bother with most superficial aspects of femininity, although many of these left-leaning women do seem to have bought into the caretaking aspects of womanhood in our culture. It’s been puzzling to me that they can’t seem to understand how supporting Lesbians benefits all women who don’t want to perform femininity. The ones most concerned with gender performance seem to be women in their thirties or younger who call themselves bi or genderqueer. There’s a striking divide between them and those of us old enough to have childhood memories of second wave feminism.

        “I also wonder to what degree women like Dievendorf haven’t personally experienced much or any male pattern violence in their own lives. I think it’s much harder to ignore male violence (“even” when it’s coming from an MTT) if you’ve previously been the victim of it.”

        This is spot on. The women I know who are most sympathetic toward transwomen–and men in general–have been lucky enought not to have violent fathers or husbands, and sometimes act as if those of us who’ve experienced violence (even in early childhood!) must have provoked it by not being “nice” enough.

      • kesher Says:

        “Do bisexual and straight women take femininity more seriously?”

        I guess I don’t really know. It’s really just speculation. I’ve encountered a somewhat baffling to me trend of straight women who don’t necessarily perform femininity themselves *really* liking it when men do it, and it seems like their responses to MTTs are related to this. These are women, meanwhile, who would never dictate to other women that we must perform femininity, or we’re not really women, but something about a man performing it makes them think he’s above reproach.

        I don’t really get it. The only aspect of femininity that disarms me when I encounter a “feminine” man is the personality aspects of it, being small and not taking up space, avoiding aggression and confrontation. I don’t think a man behaving that way makes him a woman, but I take it as a sign that he’s non-threatening. A man wearing lipstick? That doesn’t have that effect on me at all.

      • branjor Says:

        I know a straight woman who loves gay male drag queens; she says that they are “in touch with their feminine side” and “warm and friendly.” She is repulsed by MTT trans on the other hand.

  25. emmajune Says:

    We’re not your lesbians.

  26. CKDexterHaven Says:

    How on earth can most of the bodies being pulled out of dumpsters belong to transgender people? The murders of non-trans men and women would have to be completely invisible to you if you think that. I wonder if anyone has ever compared the murder stats for M2Ts involved in the sex industry with the stats for women involved in the sex industry? As for men being murdered because they look too feminine, if we got rid of gender rules then people wouldn’t be attacked for breaking them.

    I get the impression that, for Emily, lesbianism is two women getting a man off by making out in front of him. It’s heartening that there are enough women liberationists out there to disabuse her of this notion and that those women still have some financial clout.

    • No name Says:

      Trans claims a high suicide rate, and they have the highest HIV+ rate In the LBGTWTF. This is the majority of their death rate:

      Obviously, much of the trans deaths- by their own admission is self inflicted and NOT violent deaths at the hands of other men like actual women. This is a trans issue that is not being addressed as a real important problem.

      Men do not attack and kill other strange men for their sexy body parts, that way unless it is one gay serial killer with a fetish for man-parts. Biological Women are the People with fetishized body parts, esp -but not limited to -working in the adult industry.

      Women’s biological body parts are fetishized enough to be taken by men as sexual objects. Women’s lives are taken by men as ‘sorta’ the same entertainment.

      It is not the clothes that get women killed, it is the fact they have female bodies. Men with women’s clothes on are not women. For these men to say they are being killed and raped by men at the same rate as women is insulting to the women that have had to live a female life.

      That is why the problem exists for women.

      I don’t know any case of a trans person cut up with that much hatred/sexual aggression that is normally reserved for women.

      Most all documented cases of found body parts – are women’s bodies/body parts that were targeted by a fetishist, or they were killed by an enraged male in ‘male on female domestic violence by a man they were in a relationship with that is trying to hide the body]. it is an oddity if it happens to a guy.[or female impersonator] I know it is part of the fetish to claim you face the same male on female violence in the sex industry, but this is appropriating a poor woman’s lived experience, not an actual man ‘s.

      When a man is murdered, including a man in drag, it makes the news. Prostitute and domestic violence deaths barely make the national news,

      The fact that the USA, one of the most modern countries in the world, still has a 33% domestic violence rate. Some women live like prisoners in their own homes,but this is no platformed by police.

      With such a high HIV+ rate, why are none of these orgs caring for these guys or have HIV programs/suicide prevention that is not a dating service for sex preditors[Allison’s project]?? Oh. men have good insurance for real medical problems. Women’s medical and housing funds are put toward maintaining erections and funding viagra and hair removal and cosmetic procedures for men’s entertainment, and they use their real insurance for real health problems, or they are claiming their HIV+ status is no ones concern and ignoring the problem like other problems they create by being put in charge of everything? .

      If you take any violence prevention, they will warn you that suicidal people are capable of taking other lives as well as their own. They are dangerous. Many murder suicides, were just suicides where the depressed person decided to take others with him at the last minute, or was just thinking of his poor self and did not intend to tell his victims.

      • CKDexterHaven Says:

        Now a judge has used the supposedly higher risk of transgender people committing suicide as part of his reasoning behind not sending a M2Ts to prison for possessing ‘brutal’ images of women having sex with horses and a DVD of someone sexually abusing a dog.

        Transgender Woman Spared Jail

        This part is particularly chilling –

        ‘Asked if she would be happy to attend a rehabilitative women’s programme, Love cheerfully gave the judge a thumbs up.

        She had earlier told her barrister that such a programme was “what I’ve wanted for years.” ‘

        One has to wonder why a late transitioner, caught in possession of ‘brutal’ pornography, has, for so long, wanted to attend a group for damaged, vulnerable women.

      • Miep Says:

        Yeah, that’s scary as hell, CKDexterHaven. Dudes hurting women and then suddenly announcing they are women and all will be well if only they can have access to us.

        I think about all those libfems running around supporting these guys, and I wonder, how many of them have ever done anything illegal? smoked some pot, maybe dealt to your friends, women? Maybe you never got busted, maybe you’re too privileged. Prison not a worry for you. Those other women, they can be housed with the violent male transgenders. No one will miss them, right? this isn’t about you, so why care?

        Dworkin said: we miss them and we want them back. but who cares about her, she was just a fat ugly woman.

        How *dare* any woman who tries to sell this kind of crap call herself a feminist. Wake the fuck up.

      • WTF Is This Nonsense? Says:

        Eh, I hear some men get pretty violent when they find out the laydee is a dude.


      • “Eh, I hear some men get pretty violent when they find out the laydee is a dude”

        Because men are violent. Which is why we don’t want them in women’s spaces. M2Ts are NOT women.

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        I recently saw a conversation elsewhere online where a woman was pulling out the “trans people are constantly raped and murdered,” canard, and as proof she discussed her MTT friends, all of whom had been raped more than once. She did not make any connection there with the fact that they were all, according to her, prostitutes (they’d been “forced into sex work” because “no one would hire them” for anything else). Apparently in her mind female sex workers are never forced into it because they can’t find work elsewhere, and female sex workers never experience violence. Once again, when it happens to women it’s just the natural order of things and barely worth thinking about, but when it happens to men it’s a horrible tragedy* and proof that trans are the most victimized on the planet.

        (*Of course it’s a tragedy when it happens to men, it’s just no more a tragedy than when it happens to women, which it does all the time.)

        @CDexterHaven Good lord. MTT are being spared prison now because it might upset them? So instead they’re “sentenced” to invading therapeutic spaces for women only? I bet he gave a big cheery thumbs-up; I bet he was thinking he won the fucking lottery.


  27. We love you Gallus. Thank you for your work. This resignation happened because of radical feminist Lesbians. Because of us. And interestingly, despite all our agitation on the Internet, this time we’ve been heard — because of money.


    • This blog could be the start of a massive change…perhaps historical.

      I wonder if transpeople think Rachel Maddow should have a sex change? Her style is classically boyish. I think she’s adorable as she is….but I’m just an “angry” lesbian (ouch).

      Fortunately, Dr. Maddow has better things to do than to obsess over meaningless bullshit.

      I read that Chaz is having difficulty finding a straight woman to date her….I mean him. Would he ever date a transwoman?

      They just don’t get it. It’s impossible to change your bio sex. Change the gender stereotypes instead.

      • GallusMag Says:

        “This blog could be the start of a massive change…perhaps historical.”

        Honestly, it already has. I could quit right now and this ball would not stop rolling.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        That might be because Chaz was a much better-looking lesbian than whatever she is now.


      • “I read that Chaz is having difficulty finding a straight woman to date her”.

        Wow what a surprise! It’s like sexual attraction isn’t about identity. But that clearly doesn’t fin into trans ideology so it’s denied.

  28. amazondream Says:

    Let’s not forget that as non-profits they were in violation of a variety of state/federal commerce laws by attempting to interfere with & shutdown the operations & livelihoods of many businesses and individuals–
    I don’t doubt that they will hope to squelch this and continue with business as usual–We should keep this loud and very public because a rupture like shouldn’t be wasted–

    …”we’ve only just begun”…..To Rise!

  29. madein1982 Says:

    That moment I’m completely embarrassed to be a lesbian because of this post…please don’t include me in this type of lesbian group think. Not all of us agree. I fully support what she was doing.

    • GallusMag Says:

      ^^^ Commenter is Erica Moise, President of the Stonewall Bar Association.

    • Miep Says:

      So Brave, Erica. Dreadful lesbians going around having independent views about things. What is the world coming to?

    • kesher Says:

      You think it made sense to prioritize attacking a private music festival over guaranteeing basic human and civil rights for gay, lesbian, and trans people in the state of Michigan? You have odd priorities for an attorney.

    • SaraClue Says:

      Michigan speakin’ here — hey Emily and Erica, why don’t you work on confronting dangerous bigots like David Agema instead of harassing a lesbian music festival. The liberal movement is allowing crazy men to destroy this state, because your priorities are completely insane.

    • emmajune Says:

      “please don’t include me in this type of lesbian group think”

      I’ll let the membership committee know.


    • Wait you are embarrassed to be a lesbian because women don’t want to let males into their safe spaces?

      So your feelings about your sexual orientation depend on trans womens feelings??

      Come on. You can’t be that men obsessed.

    • liberalsareinsane Says:

      You should be embarrassed, dear, but not for the reasons you stated.

    • gg Says:

      So… “group think” is when you push back against the seemingly unassailable claim that T is part of LGB, that trans issues should be prioritized, and that men are lesbians when they say so? Thanks for the laugh, Emily! I’m so amused that I’m making a donation to Gallus in your honor.

    • shediogenes Says:

      Embarrassed to be a lesbian? I’m sure there is some 6’5″ 300 lb. transbian who would be happy to ‘comfort’ you in your hour of need. don’t forget to gargle afterwards.

    • michelle Says:

      sounds like posturing from a sole practitioner who wants to keep up appearances to get moneys coming in from the cocks in frocks who want to whine about how they got arrested because of ‘phobia’ instead of, oh I don’t know…actually having committed a fucking crime…


  30. Erica…why should butch girls and sissy boys be told they’re trans? What’s wrong with being gay? Or even just different?

    How confident are you that no M2T will assault, harass, record or rape a woman or child in a public restroom or other woman’s space?

    How confident are you that no transwoman would “get off” on just being around women in our private space? Or even victimize a woman at MichFest?

    Transwomen are transwomen. They are not women. They weren’t socialized as girls. They think they are women, but how could they possibly know what it’s like to be a woman? It’s an insulting presumption.

    Btw, are there any statistics re: how transwomen vote re: reproductive rights? I wonder if they skew pro-life or pro-choice. Probably pro-life since they want to protect trans fetuses.

    • liberalsareinsane Says:

      “Transwomen are transwomen.”
      “transwomen are MEN” Full stop. Trans does not exist!!

      • Teal Deer Says:

        I figure transgenderism exists, just not as trans folk see it. It’s not an error in brain/body sex matching, but a paraphilia or BDD, which requires mental health care, not surgery and indulging their whims.

    • kesher Says:

      Considering how much intersection there is between libertarians, MRAs, and just general misogynists on websites like 4Chan and Reddit and white MTTs, I’m guessing that many skew pro-“life”, but not because they care about fetuses.

  31. CKDexterHaven Says:

    I’ve just had a look at Emily’s twitter page where she describes herself as a ‘fun and sexiness factory’. Suddenly everything just falls into place …

  32. emmajune Says:

    This is a post on We Hunted the Mammoth re: a Reddit thread where women recount the first time they were ever perved on.

    http://tinyurl.com/mcmjhlt

    Notice the FIRST comment is about an 8 year old being followed into a changing room by a grown man. Who only goes away when another woman comes into the changing room and screams upon seeing a man.

    Notice the number of times women depend on other women to help them.

    Men are the threat to women. Anything that allows men to be in closer proximity to women *at only the men’s discretion* puts women in danger.

    • mayimoktoo Says:

      That reddit thread is heartbreaking but not unexpected. All women can empathize with these stories – 22000 at the time of this post but growing every day. We never stop explaining, do we? Always hoping it’ll sink on on a deeper level than titillating entertainment.

      There are a few MTT stories. They are all the same – “I am trans so my story should be interesting. I was an adult, I had already transitioned. Some men were scary in a way I’d never seen before! I was so scared! Nobody helped me!! btw, I am trans.”

      These pissed me off. Men had been scary before. The MTTs had a chance to see it but never noticed when it was “just” happening to women. And no, your story is NOT more interesting because you’re trans. We have a word for men who think that their dilettante interest trumps a women’s significant knowledge. (Although to protect your feels, we can call it transplaining this time.)

      The FTT trans stories are the same heartbreaking stories we all know too well.

  33. Zemskull Says:

    Dievendorf was slow to realize that if you look closely at any formal social club or nonprofit, you’ll notice it’s the women doing 85 percent of the grunt work that is vital to any group. Some men like the upper leadership and paid positions, but it’s generally the women who are writing the newsletter, setting up the refreshment table, planning the holiday parties, writing the checks to the event venue, welcoming new members and running the Facebook page. Even apparently all-male groups such as the Masons would fold without their auxiliary groups, run by women, quietly doing the heavy lifting.

    • Zemskull Says:

      PS: In my own personal experience with MTTs, I’ve found that they follow the male patterns of group involvement. Some are willing to take on some upper-level leadership positions if given the opportunity, but I haven’t noticed that they’ve offered to help with any of the grunt work I mention above.

      • fabmind Says:

        I’m glad you mention this. I’m not alone in my social circles in noticing that along with women, FTTs tend to take on “menial” tasks like that or even cleaning the kitchens and restrooms. The patterns repeat but many people turn a blind eye.

        By the way Gallus, long-time follower and first-time commenter. Thank you for what you do.

  34. Annoyed Bi Chick Says:

    As a bisexual woman, this woman embarrasses me. Would it freakin’ kill women who like men to be on women’s side for just once? (Okay, so yeah, sometimes it does, but that’s not on women.) Men don’t need your damn help. It’s bleeding obvious to me that lesbians get short shrift on just about everything, and I’m not even one.

    I don’t even think the T should be included in the LGB grouping. T isn’t about sexual orientation, and sexual orientation, gender presentation, and sex don’t really have a whole lot to do with each other. I think the T being in there is a historical artifact of internalised misogyny reading as anti-men-in-dresses sentiment. (You’re a man and you want to wear a dress? Fine by me, and the rest of the culture should just put on their big girl panties and deal. It’s only clothes, FFS. Misogyny alone tells a lot of these people they need to hate their bodies so much they have to change them, just because they like cultural artifacts they’re “not supposed to.”)

  35. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Reblogged this on FeistyAmazon and commented:
    We are at a war. As a lidelong DykeAmazon I realize this. I remembered what we had…and just how much we lost. And that Michfest has been around just 5 years longer than I’ve been out as a Butch Dyke. I came out in 1981 at the height of Lesbian.culture..but since the 90s has been in ever accelarating decline. This truly saddens me just how much we’ve lost..partly because of economics and bad economies destroying our vulnerable institutions and partly because of the absolutely corrosive nature of the trans movement and gay male sexism. And the distraction and lack of solidarity between Lesbians. But this wave shows we are ready to rise again! As OUR OWN PEOPLE like we did before..and claim.our Amazon Natyre once again!!! Because Queer Nation.has done NOTHING FOR Lesbian.Nation!!!

  36. No name Says:

    A little off topic, but I have a much better acronym for us,

    OWLS
    Old Women, Lesbians & Spinsters
    😀

    • Dogtowner Says:

      Love this! And owls are very special creatures. I went on an owl prowl one evening, did not see an owl until we were driving out of the park when one flew over the car. For the next 48 hours, I experienced life with absolutely no anxiety, total calm. It was amazing. I am very lucky to hear owl hoots at night when the windows are open.

      • dbrvnk Says:

        My family’s home for almost a year was right next door to the home of a morepork (ruru). Practically every night we’d hear her calls as she flew around doing owly things, but in that whole time, we only ever spotted her once, when my mum happened to look up just as she was flying overhead. Totally silent. (I think she was hunting) Their flight is completely inaudible, which I always thought was brilliant, the mice and rats etc don’t hear you coming until it’s too late.

        I definitely support owls as well as OWLS, both are amazing🙂

  37. river Says:

    I was followed into a women’s bathroom in a roadside reststop. We noticed a truck sitting outside when we pulled in, and someone sitting at the driver’s seat but we didn’t pay any attention. When we entered, the men’s room door was side open and we could see it was empty. When we began to use the three person stalls, someone rushed in and began to use the one next to me. I immediatly knew it was a man, because of the long, hard stream. No woman pees like that. When he left the stall he stood in front of the mirror and played around with his hair adjusting his clothes. He was dressed like your typical male hoser, including the redneck haircut. Because I could see him well through the door jamb/door frame space I saw he was at least 6’2″. His head came to above the top of the mirror. We were terrified. We stopped talking the moment he came in. We didn’t know what he might do, why he had come in there. I do know this was an act of aggression. So anything he might have done would have been further aggression, but entering a woman’s washroom is an act of pure aggression to the women there. He didn’t have to use it. He knew we had gone in, and he lingered and loitered. The building was completely empty, other than us.

    Eventually he left, and when we flew out of there mere seconds later, worried to get back into our car, we saw the semi had left.

    I know women and girls have experienced much worse. My point is the fuckers are doing this deliberately to frighten us, and make the point they can and there is nothing we can do about it. Had he been in there first, we would not have entered. But that wasn’t going to happen because he didn’t come in to use the toilet; he came in to sexually harass women and he waited until women entered.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      River, I’m so sorry that happened to you.

      But there’s something I’ve been meaning to say whenever the topic of men in bathrooms comes up. River said “No woman pees like that.” I know a woman who pees standing up, and it’s loud when she does. My mother. She had bladder cancer, and had to have her bladder removed. Now she has a urostomy (a bag) on the outside of her body, which collects her urine and which she of course has to empty. It’s hard to do this sitting down.

      My poor mom has worried that when using a public restroom, someone will see her feet pointing the wrong way, and hear how it’s louder than most, and conclude she’s a tranny! Poor mum. She would be so embarrassed if someone thought so.

      This isn’t meant as a rebuke to you, River. I just wanted to throw this out there to remind us all to be careful when going by what seems to be obvious and jumping to conclusions. That’s all.

      • river Says:

        Oh my god: exceptionalism on GT.

        It was not just the standing up. Men’s bladders hold two to three times more than women’s and we do not pee in a steady forceful stream for a very long time. In fact we tend to sprinkle.

        I didn’t jump to conclusions. I saw him.

        My young relative was menstruating and we were forced to stop or we would never have used such a facility. So this was wonderful sitting there desperately fearful about what he planned. What could we do? Middle of bloody nowhere, not another person or vehicle around. We were not standing up, we were partially disrobed, we were messy, we are tiny by female standards, and we were very afraid.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Request that this back and forth end here. I think you have both made your points. Thank you.

        River, I am sorry that was done to you, that is terrifying.
        Ashland, your poor mom! Of all the things to have to worry about on top of dealing with her urostomy.
        Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and experiences. x

    • Lauren Says:

      I’m very glad nothing horrible happened to you that day, and I’m sorry you had to feel that fear. It reminds me of horror movies when the person being hunted tries hiding in the restroom by being as quiet as possible, silencing their breathing, standing on the toilet, etc.
      I always get very anxious in public restrooms when someone enters the cubicle next to me until I hear the sound of female urination, hear a woman’s voice, or see shoes obviously to small for the vast majority of men. If I hear that ‘hard stream’ you mention my anxiety increases but I try to just think there’s a completely non-threatening woman in there who has decided to hover. If I sense there’s a man in the restroom though I keep my knife in one hand and my pepper spray in the other until I hear that the restroom is clear and then I rush to get out of there as quickly as possible.
      I will not be raped again. I’ll stab a subclavian, brachial, carotid, or femoral artery before I ever let that happen to me again.

    • australopithecene Says:

      This story really terrifies me. I’ve been attacked twice as an adult by men I didn’t know. One of those times I had been told I would be raped and murdered, and the only reason it didn’t happen was because someone happened along and scared the attackers away. I am absolutely terrified of coming across a man in a lonely place. It is my greatest fear, and I curtail a lot of my behaviour because of it. So sorry this happened to you. It’s terrorism.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Jesus, Lauren and Australopithecene. I wish I had something comforting and pithy to say…I’m just so sorry that happened. Sending you love and comfort…

      • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

        Dittoing AshlandAvenue here. I am so sorry you had to go through that, both of you. And as far as I’m concerned, you are very brave to go anywhere at all, even if you don’t feel like you are.

        And Lauren, I carry a knife everywhere, too, and feel the same way.

  38. silverside Says:

    I have a question that I haven’t seen answered anywhere. I know that there are laws against discrimination, but even for-profit enterprises have the authority to refuse service or eject patrons from the premises–and do, especially when customers become unruly or violent. I know that Michfest has made it clear that they won’t do “panty checks” or second guess at the admission stage. But what about afterwards, when certain individuals act in what might be charitably called an asocial manner? Are they throwing these people out? Is there anybody who has the authority to do that and are they doing it? I think it could get Michfest off the hook for “discrimination” charges if they were throwing out “anybody” who flashes a penis in the showers or on the grounds, makes rape threats or other violent threats, vandalizes property, acts in a way that is inappropriate or harassing. Is there a reluctance to do so, because it might appear heavy-handed? It seems if the standards were enforced “equally” then the “trans women” would not have a leg to stand on. I read these accounts of “trans women” behaving like little shits, and I just don’t understand why somebody didn’t just muscle them right out of there and throw them out the front gate with no refund. I am deeply distressed that it has come to this, and I am sure everybody would like the festival to operate in peace and harmony. But it doesn’t seem to be where we are right now.

    • Zemskull Says:

      Hi Silverside, those harassing persons were thrown out, but the damage was already done. I think Michfest may prefer to prevent harassment rather than address it on the back-end.

    • mayimoktoo Says:

      Fallon Fox (MMA fighter who brutalized a woman) was stealth* at Michfest in 2014. I worry for the women who would have to throw him out.

      That info, btw, was my peak trans moment. There were a few shockers before that but nothing like the deep, visceral fear for women that I felt reading this violent man’s faux-spiritual rant about Michfest.

      *yeah, right.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Yes, he wrote about how he walked around seething with rage and glaring at the women. Very scary guy.


      • He is a gross monster. There is a tumblr post about another trans woman who went to Michfest. The poster saw him and said that he couldn’t connect with the women there. No wonder – he was a middle aged straight man. Later he talked about his penis during a workshop that was aimed at helping rape survivors. He traumatized the women there so much that they were on the egde of leaving.

        What a disgusting pig.

      • mon Says:

        Fox dude was probably pissy because he was walking around thousands of real women at Michfest knowing he couldn’t act badly and did have to restrain his anger. That is a big crowd to deal with even for a macho man. All those women traveling hundreds, even thousands of miles by car, think of the pepper spray! Think of all the rope those campers bring and how fast those farm and rancher gals can rope and tie them cows! Why they’d have an assaulter restrained and delivered to the front gates for the cops in no time! And the witnesses! No short supply there!


      • Fox wants to guard the “hen house.” He is the very definition of a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Little Red Riding was astute to rely on her survival skills rather than listen to BS.

        His wiki page doesn’t include any reference to an assault charge…any links to that?

      • Zemskull Says:

        It’s possible that Fallon Fox “passes” as female and thus was stealth at Michfest. The majority of MTTs, however, know they don’t pass and this could be why they are angry at Michfest. They wish they could just attend under the radar as Fox apparently did, but they know they don’t “pass.” This is a huge wake-up call that not only do they not look female, but perhaps they never really will be female. The truth hurts when you’re not used to hearing it.

  39. ImNoCissie Says:

    Unbelievable that women exist who cannot fathom why other women prefer to socialize and have safe space away from men.

    Unbelievable that any woman really believes a male-to-trans is actually a woman.

    • Yevska Says:

      Exactly. Why can anyone but women assemble? Jewish? No problem. Irish? Not an issue. Sci-fi nerds? Why must women not gather? It’s isn’t “mean and discriminatory.” This is a still an endlessly male world. We wish to be apart, why is this forbidden? Why do men fear women who are off alone and unconcerned with them? If it is of no consequence, then why does it matter? But it does. It matters so much to men who want to be women that actual women might withdraw from them.

      I would welcome a place to be a woman among women. To learn and to just be around those like me. I lost faith with any trans movement the minute I saw, “support your sisters, not just your cis-sisters” and realized, transwomen are not my sister. They are men. They were raised as men, they have bodies that are male. I can support non-conforming gender, but no man is my sister.

      • liberalsareinsane Says:

        Nothing strikes fear into men like female solidarity that’s why they work sooooo hard to dose any of it. Plus, males want to be at the epicentre of women: “What? You’re not paying attention to meee? But you’re all my mommy”.

        And they’re also terrified that once and for all women would plot to get rid of them. *snickers*

      • liberalsareinsane Says:

        As for the sociopatic emilys’? Only men can stand handmaidens like her. She likes her patriarchy cookies. She needs them because women like her have never had any meaningful relationship with another woman in their lives.

      • No name Says:

        Some Men don’t want women to talk without them watching every word. Many men are like this with their GF or wife. I am not sure why, but it is a major thing that turns me off to guys.What is scary is that a group of men decided that since Lesbian don’t have male husbands telling them what to do, they will slip in and take over the job despite their being no relationship. Men calling themselves Lesbians’ want to lead the Lesbian movement by changing women’s Lesbian culture into a service for crossdressing men. Outside men,, not directly involved in the ‘lesbian Parasitism’ culture, -have to send the inquiry to the men in charge of the lesbians.

        What kept these guys away from the L before was the fear of gay men. Gay teens used to be horribly lynched[Teena Brandon, Matt Shepard]Since then, general homophobia on other men from straight men got a lot better since the 1980s-90s, These straight guys are no longer even afraid of gay men picking up on them in LG places. These same guys were the homophobic sexist creeps that largely avoided the gay scene, but had masterbation dreams of joining poly lesbians for years from a porn addiction.

      • kesher Says:

        “What kept these guys away from the L before was the fear of gay men.”

        Well that, and also the fear of being perceived as gay. The former stereotype, one that many people still believe, of MTTs is of gay men who likely had a background in drag pre-transitioning. Or at least there was a history of gender non-conformity throughout childhood.

        I think I’ve mentioned this in other comments, but I remember, when I watched Jeffrey in the mid-’90s, there was a scene at pride wherein a trans woman claimed to be a proud “lesbian”. Everyone in the theater laughed, and most members of the audience were gay men.

        So at least 20 years ago, any man claiming to be a lesbian would be laughed out of LGB circles, and, if he crossdressed publicly, the straights would assume that he’s a gay guy. Trans “lesbians” really don’t like that. They strike me as massive homophobes, even as they dictate that the LGB ride to their defense.


      • “They strike me as massive homophobes, even as they dictate that the LGB ride to their defense.”

        They ARE massive homophobes. They can call themselves lesbians all day long it – but they can’t hide that they are gross homophobic straight men. They are unable to understand that sexual orientation excludes people. That’s the way it is. But since they are straight men and used to always get what they want – they throw tantrums if women reject them.

        Also they desperatly hold onto their fucking identities and expect other to do the same. For them identities are a source of power over women. Don’t believe in them and they lose it.


  40. The link below clearly outlines the utter hypocrisy of Equality Michigan. A lot of the information is gleaned from previous gendertrender posts and various feminist sites. Why can’t people just be honest, and let all the ugly truth come out? The main reason they wanted to take down Mich Fest was because they knew how important it is to women, particularly lesbians. They knew it was a bitterly divisive issue, but they did it anyway.

    Scroll down and read some of the death threats against “TERFs”.

    Under hypocrites in the dictionary, see Equality Michigan

    https://hipocriteequalitymichigan.wordpress.com/

    @AreUSayingWhatUThink

    “I had a thought about the timing of all this – I wonder if the distancing from the boycott petition and Dievendorf’s resignation are related to the Planet Fitness case – and it IS a case now, with Yvette Cormier as plaintiff – MichFest and Carlotta-in-the-locker-room are both in Michigan. ”

    Equality Michigan wants to give Planet Fitness a “Pat on the Back”.

    http://www.equalitymi.org/media-center/news/give-planet-fitness-pat-back

    Now that Dievendorf is gone, I wonder if they still believe that Planet Fitness needs a “Pat on the Back”.

    There are no words that can properly describe the pain that Equality Michigan has caused women. They were wrong to attack Michigan Women’s Music Festival which is held on private property. Their belief that Planet Fitness needs a “Pat on the Back” is offensive to the entire female sex, and ludicrous.

    @AreUSayingWhatUThink

    “Carlotta” has made his sexual interests/fantasy world known online – and in the context of Carlotta’s own statements, yes, HIS being in the locker room IS a violation of women’s rights, it’s expecting women to participate WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT (sorry for all caps) in his sexual fantasy.

    It’s all there for anyone to see, and I would pay to see creepy cross dresser “male slut” on a leash, Carlotta on the stand. In fact, I think it should be televised like the O.J. Simpson trial.

  41. WeWillWin Says:

    Don’t know if this was already posted. Open letter to Lisa Vogel from Autumn Sandeen who bought his ticket to Michfest:

  42. tm Says:

    Well done lesbians. Way to protect yourselves from a small group of marginalized women. Wake up. Forty years ago, they were you.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Men are not a small group, are not marginalized on the basis of sex, and are not women. They are certainly not lesbians. Not forty years ago, not now, not ever.

      You are a homophobe and an MRA.

      Lesbian culture exists for Lesbians. Created by and for Lesbians. Stop telling Lesbians that we need to service males. Stop telling Lesbians that our culture needs to accommodate the needs of heterosexual cross-dressing men. Stop telling Women that creating affinity groups based on our shared history of oppression based on our sex is harmful to men. Stop telling Women and girls that our membership in the female sex caste is insignificant. When you do these things you perpetuate rape culture. When you do these things you perpetuate corrective rape of Lesbians. When you do these things you dishonor Women, Girls, and Lesbians.

      Stop doing that.

      YOU wake up.

      • tm Says:

        What a profound misunderstanding of trans women, but I guess it hurts you not at all to try to hear a different female voice so why listen? Again, well done on your own echo of what the patriarchy does to us. What a proud moment for lesbians. Hold on to the gender definitions you fought so hard against, to create your own space. Hold onto that space. Keep those who are not like you out. Biology is destiny, etc. How proud I am to be a lesbian right now, how proud.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Oh, I’m listening all right. That’s the problem, TM. Sooo Lesbians are like the Patriarchy who oppress men according to you. How does that work again?

        And acknowledging that women are oppressed by males on the basis of our reproductive abilities is what causes that oppression! How does that work again?

        You are a silly person.

        It surprises me not one bit that a dick-sucking woman like you is ashamed to be a Lesbian.

      • liberalsareinsane Says:

        “What a profound misunderstanding of trans women”
        There is no such thing as trans women!

        “to hear a different female voice”
        You have to be female to have a female voice. “Transwomen are MEN”!

        “What a proud moment for lesbians.”
        Yes it is.

        “How proud I am to be a lesbian right now, how proud.”

        Dudes like you are not women or lesbians. However, if by chance you are a woman perhaps you gals who are embarrassed to be lesbians, every time lesbians stand up for themselves, should start a support group or stop lying about your alleged lesbianism.

      • GallusMag Says:

        She is female, believe it or not.

      • GallusMag Says:

        A support group for female homosexuals ashamed when women prioritize their own issues for five days a year. Sounds like a winner! *snicker

      • Miep Says:

        Lesbian enabling of misogyny is one of the saddest things in the world.

      • branjor Says:

        What a sad specimen of a female tm is. She is exactly the kind of woman who gives me no pride whatsoever in being one. I was born in the early 1950s and heard all the disparaging messages given about women in that era. I never felt a spot of pride in being female until the second wave came along and I realized that it was all lies, that women were really nothing like that. Then real pride was born in me. And the truth is that we still have far to go, that neither lesbians (the real ones, the female kind ) nor women as a whole (ditto the real ones) will ever be liberated into a world which honors us and is truly our home until we prioritize our own issues for a lot more than a mere five days a year.

      • Bev Jo Says:

        Perfect response. Excellent. Thank you!

    • Miep Says:

      tm no, forty years ago lesbians weren’t a bunch of men playing at performing femininity. What a stupid comment.

    • liberalsareinsane Says:

      “Way to protect yourselves from a small group of marginalized women.”

      They’re{you} are not marginalized women, sir. You’re a pervy, annoying male with an out of control fetish. Your whining is a bore.

    • No name Says:

      No, Lesbians made their own space and did not hound another marginalized group, steal support from them, or threaten to kill them for not having sex,

      Men with fetishes are men with fetishes pursuing a porn fantasy they think they have the right to,

      The lesbians are the minority group, being attacked by men that want full sexual access to real lesbians, because you have to pay money to access actual porn lesbians, and these are pervy straight men, guys that think they don’t have to pay to view p*ssy. like pay-per-view if they put a dress on before entering and exposing their naked male body to women that don’t consent. Go have sex with men, they want you- they are other men.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Well here’s the thing. Folks always wonder why ashamed-to-be-lesbians like Erica and TM dedicate themselves to sucking the cock of the hetero male “transwomen” and driving a bus over their lesbian sisters. First off, the ashamed-to-be-lesbians are generally of the white professional class. Both Erica and TM are attorneys. Which is proof that anyone can become an attorney. But the larger point I’m making is that these women aren’t exactly floating around the gay ghetto. The only time these women share space with “homeless LGBT youth” or “streetwalking gay males” or “sex-working transwomen of color” is as a service provider. In that sense they are no different than any other lefty liberal outside of the community. Clueless. Like most lefty liberals (god bless em!) they mean well. They really do.

      What they DO have their finger on the pulse of is lefty liberalism and “queer culture”. And in that capacity they have been indoctrinated for two decades in Jender Journey gobbledygook. And when I say indoctrinated, I mean pummeled. Brutalized. Screamed at, coerced, shamed, and threatened. Ceaselessly. Into submission.

      You have to remember that 80% of male transgenders are white and heterosexual and consider themselves to be “lesbians” and these heterosexual white men are twice as likely as the general public to have military backgrounds, three times as likely to have higher educations, and they are vastly over represented in white collar careers, particularly in STEM fields.

      Also remember that 80% of FEMALE transgenders are self-hating lesbians who “become heterosexual men” but never really leave the lesbian community. So 80% of both the female and male transgender population is either actually lesbian or men who “want to be” lesbian. Hetero/Bisexual/Queer women have also flooded the lesbian community. They bring heteronormative gender dynamics of dominance and submission, encouraging femininity or masculinity.

      In the end though, it is ultimately the lesbian women who transgender that have inflicted genderism upon and indoctrinated ashamed-to-be-lesbians like Erica and TM. In order to “support” the “Jender Journey” of the lesbians in their community, women like Erica and TM (and the rest of us!) have been forced to suck the hetero male cock of transgenderism.

      That is the truth of it.

    • Mortadella Says:

      You’re a man.

  43. WTF Is This Nonsense? Says:

    Start Transfest and be done with it. No cissies allowed!

    Start Genderqueerfest. They can have restroom stalls with escape hatches for gender emergencies!

  44. shediogenes Says:

    Forty years ago these PIW’s were beating off into a pair of their sisters panties while flipping through their dads playboy stash and the lingerie section of the JCPenney catalogue just like all the other boys their age. Just because they want to wear that lingerie and be gazed upon as sexual objects the same way they did it back then doesn’t make them women. On the contrary, little girls don’t objectify women and use images of women that way. Grown women dont either, unless their minds have been poisoned by porn and rape culture too. You wake up. We aren’t here for THEM. We don’t perform for or work for them. And I for one, am not going to bow down for them, transwomen, crossdressers, MEN, call them what you like, they will never be Women, were never Girls, and cant be Lesbians.

    • gchild Says:

      “Just because they want to wear that lingerie and be gazed upon as sexual objects the same way they did it back then doesn’t make them women”

      Dont they understand that this will NEVER happen? That it is not possible, no matter how much they force themselves into womens spaces? That women cannot “male gaze” men?

      The only reason they think this will help their mental illness (depression, disphoria, etc.) is because doctors have lied to them. Libfems are lying to them. All their allies are lying to them. And they lie to each other.

      I think maybe all they really want is to be lied to. For everyone to go along with their little plot of play. They have no appreciation for reality and it pisses them off that people keep bringing it up. When they exhaust all their bullshit psuedoscience and pleas of genderfeels, they always resort to empathy.

      “Just go along cause it hurts my feelings when you dont say, do, and act how I want!”

      And when that doesnt work, its threats and attacks.

      • LC Says:

        I think for most of them it’s about attracting the MALE gaze, not the attention of women. They have no clue what women find attractive, because they aren’t women, and never can be. But they want to be a sex object, and there is only one sex that is routinely put in the gender box of ‘sex object.’

        So, I would guess that the ones who *actually* pretend to be women are really wanting to be sex objects in the only way society allows. It’s not about attracting female sexual interest(if they are autogynophiles, they’re more sexually attracted to themselves than anyone else), but female validation.


      • They are so delusional I feel sorry for them.

        If a woman, say, dyes her hair blonde, she doesn’t for a minute think that she’s a “real blonde.”

        If a woman enlarges her breasts, she KNOWS they’re fake.

        But if a man installs breasts on his pecs and thinks THAT makes him a woman? He is insane.

        No woman will ever get prostate cancer. There’s no such thing as a “feminine penis.” It’s all so Orwellian.

        Cops usually have female officers talk to rape victims and traumatized children. I fear the day when a transwoman will be considered an appropriate person to offer comfort to such victims.

        They are trying to steal our identities away from us. They want our identities for themselves even though they have no right to them.

        They are anti-women yet feel authorized to tell women what womanhood is.

        Female energy is different from male energy. Men can be feminine, but they will never have authentic female energy. Women and children are not safe around them. For one reason, they are biologically male. Secondly, they are insane!!!

      • kesher Says:

        I know I’ve seen people discuss this elsewhere on Gendertrender, but setting up impossible metrics for finally achieving happiness is a feature, not a bug, of the trans movement. Mentally unwell people who don’t want to get better will keep setting new requirements for what will finally make them well. And, they’ll often set those requirements to be something that’s completely unachievable, such as requiring everyone around you, even complete strangers, to humor your every whim.

  45. Bev Jo Says:

    That’s dangerous though — to feel sorry for them. If women and too many Lesbians didn’t feel sorry for them, then they would not have the power they have. They have the power to play out their fantasies at our expense, while sending us rape and death threats. They have destroyed our last spaces, and they love to pit Lesbians and women against each other.

    If I tell a friend that once again, a man in drag showed up at one of our Lesbian meetups (where we meet in public het and male spaces since we have none of our own left,) does the friend, say “I’m sorry that you have to always deal with men intruding”? No, she says, “Awww….” meaning poor man in drag perving on us, though his car alone costs more than a house would and most of us are incredibly poor.

    Meanwhile, another Lesbian friend thinks she’s being a wonderful liberal because her new man friend who identifies as a woman is working hard to get these pricks into women’s prisons, and she support him.

    They have almost all the power and they know it. They prey on the 12 year old girls looking for Lesbian support at “LGBT” centers. They can go to anything “Lesbian” they want, and most fall over themselves to welcome them beyond how real Lesbians are welcome.

    All we have is our continuing to say no, and to know that these pricks will never, ever get voluntary sexual access to Lesbians.

    • KgSch Says:

      Yes, it is a waste of time to feel sorry for these men! Most of them are not sad gay dudes, but violent het men. Even then, sad gay dudes who think that they would be better off as het women don’t belong in women-only space. (And just because they’re gay doesn’t mean they’re not a misogynist or hate lesbians; Janet Mock anyone?)

      Why direct all of the pity to the lesbians and other women who had had to deal with these dudes perving on them, stalking them online, sending rape and death threats, and doxxing them for saying no? Also, what about some sympathy for the young girls who are being exposed to naked adult men in locker rooms/public facilities where the men get away with it by claiming to feel like women? In most cases people would be up in arms and go on a pedo hunt, but men get even more male privilege by claiming to be women and it’s often the more vulnerable females, like lesbians, young girls, and incarcerated women who suffer for it.

      Everyone, don’t pity these men; pity the real victims, the lesbians/women/girls who are the victims of their male terrorism. I would also pity children who are being pressured by their so-called progressive parents to take hormones for not conforming to sex roles.

      That’s a good point about how most of these men are have so much more economic privilege than most lesbians, yet they still expect us to fawn over them like mommy. And then they accuse lesbian feminists or any lesbian who says no to them really, of only caring about rich people when so many lesbians are poor; what a mindscrew.

    • kesher Says:

      I saw an MTT in my city the other day who I swear was Natalie Reed. This was also maybe two blocks from the only lesbian bar in town.

  46. tm Says:

    Are you guys rhetoricians? Because your arguments are totally winning me to your side! I love rape! I suck so muck cock! I hang out with Robert Bly! You guys are totally right! You’re totally not bigots!

    • GallusMag Says:

      TM- Self-hating women who think lesbianism is “bigotry against men” need therapy, not arguments. Good luck with that.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      Speaking for myself, I’m not trying to “win” you over to my “side”, TM. I’ve long since given up on you. You will never, ever, ever convince me I’m a bigot for looking out for women, and valuing women’s experiences more than those of male fetishists. Now go pat yourself on the back for being such a good tumblr libfem. Good girl!

    • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

      Oh, we’re not even “guys,” most of us.

    • LC Says:

      Among other things, tm, you’re doing sarcasm wrong.

    • kesher Says:

      I’m genuinely curious. Why do you think trans “women” aren’t the same as basically any other man? Their precious genderfeels? Have you been around the Internet, because you can see their misogyny and their typical *male* sexuality in every space where they congregate.

      Speaking as a straight woman, I don’t, for one second, begrudge a lesbian not wanting to go to bed with someone who wants her to take the d in every possible orifice. That’s not women’s sexuality and that’s not lesbian sexuality, because trans women are neither women nor lesbians.

      • GallusMag Says:

        TM doesn’t really believe the shit she is spewing about “transwomen”. She knows they are typical men. Self-hating ashamed-to-be-lesbians like TM are groomed into transgenderism-speak by being forced to “honor” and “respect” the “manhood” of other ashamed-to-be-lesbians in their dating pool and social groups.

      • gchild Says:

        “Speaking as a straight woman, I don’t, for one second, begrudge a lesbian not wanting to go to bed with someone who wants her to take the d in every possible orifice.”

        I totally agree with you kesher. I have been wanting to express my solidarity with lesbians on the trans issue including mitchfest without overstepping since I am straight, but I hope I can safely say that this shit right here is apalling.

        So lesbians must open wide and include everyone, even if it means being a 3 hole wonder for the poor sexless transwomen who just need love and validation. So what if you dont like dick, just think of it as female and voila! And btw, how dare you discriminate against dick, that is bigotry! The implication being a lesbian is sexist in and of itself.

        This is some kind of fuckery. Wonder how long the patriarchy been working out how to get lesbians back into heteronormativity? As long as there have been women who refused to fuck men?

        And so what if transwomen havent put in the work, sweat equity, money, or lifeblood into Mitchfest? What women create belongs to them by virtue of male entitlement. And transwomen have male entitlement. This much is obvious.

        Lesbians built Mitchfest. Lesbians run Mitchfest. It is THEIRS. Lesbians dont owe transwomen, or any other group that has infiltrated the lesbian community jackshit.

        Point. Blank. Period.

  47. GallusMag Says:

    [Archiving:]

    ————-

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis added 7 new photos.
    14 hrs · Edited ·

    THE TRUTH ABOUT THE MICHFEST CONTROVERSY INVOLVING TRANSGENDER WOMEN, CATHY BRENNAN, LISA VOGEL, NCLR, AND THE NATIONAL LGBTQ TASKFORCE
    In case anyone was wondering about the fallout between boycotting organizations such as the National Center for Lesbian Rights (Kate Kendall, Executive Director) and the National LGBTQ Taskforce (Rea Carey, Executive Director) and the reasons why – here’s everyone’s answers. Cathy Brennan, TERF bigot and Maryland Corporate attorney, came up with a VERY clever legal ploy to secretly organize demands for returning personal donations, under the guise that funds were misappropriated resources because of being used to legally protect transgender persons, on the basis of exercising the right to boycott transgender women being excluded from MichFest, which happens in August in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Equality Michigan disseminated a letter demanding equality and inclusion for transgender women, along with multiple supporting organizations, including the HRC, as well. The NCLR and the National LGBTQ Taskforce have pulled out of said boycott, saying we need to “dialogue” more with leader Lisa Vogel among others, who have systemically oppressed our contributions and participation through “womyn born womyn” TERF (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists) cultural coding. Pictures say it all. You’re welcome. Now we know the truth of the matter. Let the work continue. Support transgender led organizations, who are in prime position for this work, because PDX Trans Pride won’t sell out transgender women! As seen, the actions being taken and supported by Cathy Brennan and Lisa Vogel have NOTHING to do with mutual dialogue whatsoever!
    The TransAdvocate pulled their support, as well, and the NCTE (National Center for Transgender Excellence, Mara Keisling, Executive Director) has gone on record to say publicly they support said organizations withdrawing support, for further dialogue to ensue.

    Evelyn Huang, Corinne Green, Kira Crowley and 10 others like this.
    22 shares

    Beth Sherouse Cathy Brennan is cray.
    14 hrs · 5

    Tara Hebbes wow. she actually got them to give her the money BACK.
    im just. wow. speechless as to how she gets away with stuff like this.
    and yes. beth…shes whacked.
    14 hrs · 2

    Tara Hebbes I still have no clue as to why mitchfest just cant have a trans designated area much in the way they have women of colour section.
    indigo girls pulled out of performing there appparently due to the non inclusion issue.
    14 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Leela Ginelle, Jenn Burleton: any view on this? Would love for either of you to weigh in.
    14 hrs · Edited · 1

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Fallon Fox, certainly of interest to this fighting girl?
    14 hrs · 4

    Jack Crevalle A trans designated area? Separate but equal? NO THANKS.
    13 hrs · 15

    Amy Ramshaw Yes, let’s also have an area specifically where all the black women are allowed while we’re at it…
    13 hrs · 3

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Laird Young?
    13 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis April Mcferran?
    13 hrs · Edited

    Wiktor Dynarski She is a disgrace to the whole rainbow.
    13 hrs · 3

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Cecilia C Chung, any opinions around this?
    13 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Mara Keisling?
    13 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Ilona Turner?
    13 hrs · 1

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Mandi Camille Hauwert?
    13 hrs

    Laird Young First, Cathy Brennan is made of hatefulness and rusted scrap metal. Second, MichFest held no allure for me, even during my 28 years as an Out Lesbian prior to my transition, and in the last 10 years I’ve had some heated discussions and 86’d a couple of acquaintances over why they would want to go support an event that openly rejects trans women. I’m not a fan of separatism in any form.
    13 hrs · 10

    Fallon Fox Can I share this on my wall? Pretty please? Lol
    13 hrs · 6

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Everyone may share freely! Straight down information highway…
    13 hrs · Edited · 4

    Mandi Camille Hauwert My entire opinion of Michfest in general, is that if they want to exclude trans* women, then let them. We don’t need to be included amongst a group of bigoted women. I know that not all of its attendees feel this way toward trans* exclusion, but their continued attendance further supports the events exclusionary tatics and policies.

    As for Cathy Brennan, the fact that she could somehow, not only withdraw her support for organizations that work towards equality, not just for those who scream the loudest, but for all, and…get her donations to these organizations back, in full, is absolutely ridiculous.

    TERF ideology has always operated against the core feminist principle, that a womans value, her womanhood…is not determined by her body.

    The TERF hate train, posits that because trans* women are born with penises, that regardless of wether or not they are socialized male, regardless of a strong, determinant female identity, regardless of genital status…that a man, is a man, is a man. And that no man, no matter the circumstance, can truly ever, be a woman. Because a trans* woman always has the option of abandoning their female charade, for their male artifice.

    In other words, they boil down the male and female genders, to their bodies. Which is why they don’t mind trans* men. The idea that a transman would even attend and event such as Mitchfest, is degrading to trans* men. They are included because the organizers view them as women.

    To be truthful, much like the religious zealots who espouse hatred toward transgender individuals, TERF’s seem to be immune to logic, and any discussions of equality that are contrary to their viewpoints. Many prominent writers and authors of this movement, have in the past, called for the extermination of all transgender women. And at the very least, have called for laws which would marginalize us out of existence.

    Thankfully, the TERF movement is small, and support for its outdated precepts, fading. They will soon join the mantle along with the KKK, as a group of individuals holding on to old ideologies, who are then patently ignored by the rest of civilized society.
    13 hrs · 6

    Daralyn Maxwell I’d like to point out a few inconsistencies ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION.

    I am still not convinced that some/many/most trans women even deserve to attend Michfest, mostly because they a)don’t get it, b)actually use it for the very ridiculous validator that ‘If I got into Michfest I MUST be a woman, right’, and c)their sense of entitlement drives them there.

    Thewomen who attend Michfest need to be able to feel safe. It doesn’t matter whether all of the concerns are legitimate; THEY NEED THAT SAFE ENVIRONMENT. So a bunch of entitled trans women are going to force their way in to prove that the space can still be safe with them in it? REALLY??

    And I actually kind of hate to make THIS point but my experience with some national trans advocacy orgs like NCTE is that they live in their own La-La land where the image of advocacy is the force behind the drive to be self-surviving so that they can continue to appear concerned about the plight of trans people. The last time I spoke with Mara Keisling, a couple/few years ago, she had NO IDEA who CeCe McDonald was or why NCTE should even be concerned about her but she was all about supporting some bill that would eventually give trans people the right to hope that someday someone would actually stand up for us and stop trying to hound us into oblivion.

    We don’t need a photogenic poster child for trans rights and trans equality, we need to put the haters out of business and get down the the issues of fairness and what’s right. It’s fair to say that people are demonizing trans people ad using really twited logic to make their points. That goes for both the Far Right Wingnut Republicrazy types and, at the other end of the spectrum, equally zealous decriers of trans people in general like Cathy Brennan.

    And yet, through all of that, not all trans people are, nor should they be treated, equal. The dialog that SHOULD be taking place is what exactly Vogel and company are so resistant to, why the myths and lies about transsexual (as opposed to transGENDER) women are so persistent, and how to get trans women in general to understand that attendance at Michfest won’t fix their lives.

    LASTLY, however, is the other real issue…….. that of a safe envronment for trans people in general. I hear the ones with money talk about how horrible it is UNTIL YOU ASK THEM FOR MONEY. It is just like the story of the Little Red Hen. No one wants to do any of the grunt work but they all want to share in the spoils. If every single trans woman of means; transgender and transsexual; would reach an accord as to what is possible (or ask me, I already know), slip some serious dough into the envelope, and allow the process to happen, it could be amazing. In New England alone, there are SO MANY places that could serve as an annual retreat; not only for trans women but for wbw who are not convinced that trans women are THE spawn of the devil. A ‘come to Jesus’ moment where everyone realizes that the barriers are as thin as rice paper walls in a Japanese geisha house.

    A time where we begin the healing process between ‘old’ women and ‘new’ women. Ain’t it a bitch!

    One very last thing trans women……….if you are deterrmined to go somewhere and listen to women’s music and commune with your ‘sisters’, go someplace like the National Women’s Music Festival, where your chances of surviving the experience are exponentially better than at Michfest. Although……..you won’t get to go all crazy naked and flash your stuff, or camp out and get all earthy smelly. You’ll have to act civilized and mind your fucking manners.
    11 hrs · Edited · 1

    Puma Rose I’ve never been interested in going to that music festival, ever. Maybe because I’m such a High Femme I never felt that it would be inclusive enough.
    12 hrs · 5

    Vickie Davis I am so confused!!! Now that the big groups and a transgender website has caved in and withdrew their signatures, when do the negotiations begin???
    12 hrs · 5

    Kari Hazzard Kind of reminds me in a way of what happened to the Komen foundation a few years ago. Manufactured outcry by a small group of donors triggers an overreaction by the organization, then the overreaction angers far more people than were originally complaining.
    12 hrs · 2

    Bailey Summers Cathy Brennan is a real life Scoobie Do villainess.
    11 hrs · 4

    Bailey Summers Daralyn there’s a cosmic shit ton that you don’t seem to know nor want to know of the TERF’s including some of Brennan ‘s company and that of her formers partners. Inclusion in the fest by and far the largest factor is representation.
    11 hrs · 6

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Am responding to a few comments within the hour!
    10 hrs

    Jen Fischetti If I read the screenshots correctly, they are from October 2014. That’s 6 months ago. If that is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it is not, how is it relevant or tied to to the April pullouts by NCLR and NLGBTQTF? If it was the actions of CB, would we not have seen a pullout 5 or 6 months ago?

    Just looking for clarity. What is your claim concerning the two events?
    10 hrs · 1

    Kate Kendell We were more than happy to return Cathy Brennan’s donations, all made many years ago. No one else aksed for their donations to be returned as most of our donors fully suppport our steadfast trans advocacy. We would never compromise a core value based on money.
    10 hrs · 12

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Firstly: Cathy Brennan is the ultimate demon with a thousand legs dancing on the head of the cissexist needle. A few of those dancing legs are transmisogyny, sexism… My head spins at the subcategories, with all of their spindly attached microaggressions. Anyone can fill in the blanks…
    9 hrs · 3

    Jen Fischetti I’m not arguing against CB’s actions or intentions of the present or the past. I am asking WHY did NCLR and NLGBTQTF wait SIX months later to pull out. What was the reason, if these two items are directly connected?
    9 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis In October 2014, Lisa Vogel commented, “You go girl!”, in reference to supporting CB’s deleterious organizing efforts. On the day of April 10th, 2015, AFTER the day(s) announcements were made of withdrawing petitions by NCLR and the National LGBTQ Taskforce, CB states they’re still actively opposing NCLR publicly on April 10th, 2015 despite the intention of dialogue occuring. Dialogue means mutual. Nows the time to answer this please: Have CB and LV split efforts (highly unlikely- evidence says no, until shown otherwise). Is Lisa Vogel NOW involved in a dialogue with NCLR or others persons- and if so, are they formal or informal? CB is very obviously not in dialogue. CB totally supports LV and MichFest. How can LV be in dialogue and still be supported by CB, under these circumstances? Such fragmentation doesn’t add up.
    9 hrs · Edited · 1

    Jen Fischetti Then is it possible that LV claimed there could be no dialogue while NCLR and NLGBTQTF were signatories to the petition. It is equally possible that the LV claimed she would dialogue IF it wasn’t for the petition. In either case, as with the Transadvocate, backing away, even temporarily from the petition gives them leverage to call LV out on her BS.

    That goes a long way further than 6 month old donations which were returned.
    9 hrs · 1

    Jen Fischetti Kate Kendell, thank you for the clarification.
    9 hrs · 2

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis A single reason would be cumulative loss or pledged loss of donations, in direct proportion to their potentially increased organizing activity which they leverage for social influence and control. They are in full tilt as we speak. The machine appears to be fine-tuned and well-oiled to me. I see no evidence anywhere of changes on the other side, and the victory message sent via emails was probably the inspiration for a huge TERFy celebration. They’re probably invigorated, while we as a community have multiple voices expressing their feelings of pain and hurt, and whom desire more reassurance with positive evidence. Sorry, but far from clear to me.
    9 hrs · Edited · 1

    Jaina Bledsoe Always scratch my head why TERF’s value feminists based on whether they were born with a vagina. I thought the whole point was to look beyond genitalia?
    9 hrs · 2

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Their theoretical framework originates from intellectual dedication as well as emotionally ingrained beliefs in the fallacy of sex essentialism, Jaina.
    9 hrs · Edited

    Fallon Fox Kate Kendal. Fuck you and the horse you rode the fuck in on. Maya Rupert of NCLR told me on the phone that it was about NCLR’s friendships with TERFs at michfest. SHE TOLD ME that it was about not upsetting the heard, and that if NCLR is to survive, it must be this way. She told me that you are controlled…. SHE FUCKING TOLD ME.
    9 hrs · 4

    Fallon Fox And Taskforce tipped their hand also with the god damn ridiculous statement that they want to protect “womens businesses”. And you can’t erase that from online now can you…
    9 hrs · 3

    Jaina Bledsoe Ooops…. Looks like someone called you out on your bullshit
    9 hrs

    Fallon Fox I don’t think that this is as much about Brennan than your sick, twisted, uncaring ma fuckin obedience to those who control you as Maya said to me. She tried to make me sleep. She tried to calm me. BUT WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK I AM…?
    9 hrs

    Fallon Fox What part of self sacrifice do you NOT understand?
    9 hrs

    Fallon Fox I’ve worked with you… I know you… You’ve done some good things for trans people. And table scraps keep is alive… barely. Even if we are kept off the REAL table.
    9 hrs · 1

    Fallon Fox This is less about Michfest. And your fucking power structure you fucking fuck.
    9 hrs

    Fallon Fox I’m sick of you. DO SHIT RIGHT!
    9 hrs

    Fallon Fox Now… which fucking character are you… Can you politically do it…? This is your test. Let’s see who you are. You want me?!!!!! COME FUCKING GET ME!

    Rorschach’s Death
    “Never compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon”
    YOUTUBE.COM
    9 hrs

    Fallon Fox How do you feel about HRC and transgender people’s history. EXPLAIN YOURSELF.
    9 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis I respect you very much Fallon Fox, but I ask that you refrain from further personal attacks, and to keep this civil and emotionally safe. I understand your passion. It’s mine as well. But let’s breathe some, ok? I do not intend to tone police you. We really need civil discussion here, or else we risk losing active engagement and dialogue.
    9 hrs · Edited · 2

    Kate Kendell At the risk of just making this all worse, I’ll say it again, NO ONE, least of all the anti-trans toxics of the world control anything we do at NCLR. We did not and never have violated our values over money. Our commitment to full trans embrace and celebration is decades-long and undiminished. We see every day how much must be done. We are here for the long-haul.
    8 hrs · 3

    Errol Mcinnes Wow, Cathy Brennan is an interesting one indeed. Does she hate everyone that doesn’t have a vagina? OH, and not one of those vaginoplastic vaginas, it has to be the born with type Vagina, or apparently we should’nt be alive or something?
    8 hrs · 1

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis I would like to disclose that NCLR has unabashedly supported me in the past on trans legal issues, and that I have no axe to grind at all with them or any other national organization, personally. I personally believe that open and honest, safe dialogue is necessary, to get to more truths than that of one single personally held and understood truth- emotionally included. We are all on a truth-seeking mission on this controversial and heartfelt topic, and need to discuss these things widely among us, to come to a collective understanding, and to refine our understanding. It is not wrong to publicly discuss and call out dialogue, or else theirs risk of any number of us in hundreds or thousands, performing deleterious and counterproductive, passive aggressive individual or group actions to counter any detected trend- all based on misunderstanding. This conversation is important, and I thank everyone for their tried virtues, patience, and greater understanding.
    8 hrs · Edited · 1

    Errol Mcinnes I agree. there was some crafty shenannigans here, she had me snowed for at least the second time i read all the articles, i had to read it a third time to sink it in. As to the passionate statements, I happen to think they may be necessary to come to terms with the damage created by what Brennan did. I can understand Fallon being upset, and I for one am just as upset as she is. For all the work she has done to advance humans rights, even mine, she just got caught in the middle of this incident.
    8 hrs · 1

    Antonia Elle D’orsay I will likely write some of this up soonish — mind if I reference some of the photos here?
    8 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis I would prefer some time to think about that, Antonia. Thank you for asking for my permission. I need time to consider everything, personally.
    8 hrs

    Dana Taylor OMG, I just ate and think I might vomit after seeing just two paragraphs from Daralyn Maxwell’s screed.
    7 hrs · 2

    Antonia Elle D’orsay “We hold these truths to be self evident: that all people are created equal…”
    7 hrs · 2

    Fallon Fox No. I don’t really care about the emotions of Kate. WTF do I have to say to get her to get it?
    7 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis These centers of organizing power create the nucleus of hate, and expand outward to every city, town, and country in the world, exporting institutionalized, acculturated hate, upon leaving the MichFest Festival. This is a colossal hate networking group at it’s very root and source, with many innocent women getting pulled into their silky smooth deceptive charade. Their are even hazing rituals that include effigies of transgender women.

    Their beliefs must be challenged, and not allowed to spread by condoning the legal or practical insulation of MichFest, who create, maintain, and disseminate false knowledge about us, creating trans exclusionary tactics and culturally embedding these fundamental values into their societal framework. How do we challenge them? By allowing full inclusion of respectful and civil transgender women, whose own very presence alone weakens oppressive forces civilly.

    The notion that this Festival is dying is false.
    7 hrs · Edited · 1

    Fallon Fox And if she means what she says. Then her underlings need to say different to me on the phone no?
    7 hrs

    Fallon Fox Kind of makes someone think they don’t mean what they say no?
    7 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis That sounds very suspicious Fallon Fox, for that to have been said. I have never heard of Maya Rupert before, until now.
    7 hrs · Edited

    Dana Taylor I want to know who the “transgender leaders” were that signed off on this before the announcement of throwing us under the bus was published. That is such a non-transparent group. “transgender leaders”.
    7 hrs · 1

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Good point actually.
    7 hrs · 2

    Dana Taylor It is sad we have to be highly suspicious of mostly LGB groups seeing that trans women of color were the ones who are responsible for the beginning of THEIR liberation. We always get kicked to the fucking curb. Both of these organizations know for a fact that there is ZERO DIALOGUE to be had with that bigoted group. I don’t buy what they are saying one bit.
    7 hrs · 2

    Fallon Fox Like if someone were to say something like “we can’t hurt women’s businesses” on the phone. While an entity they ally with says the same in print, as they both pull out of of an effort to ensure the safety of women’s businesses. OURS… All if ours. Meaning the businesses of both cisgender and transgender women at michfest. If they allow us to do business there without this “intention” looming over our heads.

    Do transgender women have businesses at michfest…? What women’s businesses are they protecting? Certainly not ours no?
    So why do we care about THEM? The individuals who say they fight for us, but fight for “women”. Where does their allegiance lay? Who do they care about more? The oppressed or the oppressors?
    7 hrs

    Dana Taylor Protecting “real women” is the goal I think.
    7 hrs · 2

    Fallon Fox I agree…
    7 hrs

    Fallon Fox I don’t believe they care about us as much as they say. And I believe their “tactics” make them TERF slaves.
    7 hrs

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis The TERFs are back. They just shared my post to Gender Identity Watch, with a theatrical splay of typical transmisogynistic rhetoric. Heads up. So sick of their bs…
    7 hrs · Edited · 3

    Fallon Fox Kate can you tell us ever donor who donates to NCLR so that we can feel them out and see if they have pro trans track records? Every single donor… every one. Can you point to this information if it is listed online somewhere? I’d like us all to research that information. I want to check that area to ease my mind also.

    I want to make sure that you are not a puppet. At least not a TERF puppet.
    7 hrs

    Fallon Fox Rebekah Katherine Brewis. This is Maya Rupert. Find her info on NCLR’s Website.

    7 hrs

    Daralyn Maxwell Wow! Nice to have all of these bright eyed and optimistic fighters disputing the fact that acquiring rights is a dirty game. So apparently, Bailey and Dana, and probably others, would rather stand passively and wait for the bus so they can be thrown under it again. And Bailey…….take the bus to a doctor and have that reflux taken care of. Fighting for the rghts of everyone isn’t for the weak.

    I’m in awe that negatve reactions were generated; maybe someone will actually think about assuming that thigs will just happen if you wish for it.

    But Fallon Fox – I’m not sure whether you have a point or just wanted to jump into the fight and go all MMA on people. Sorry you don’t take the feelings of others into account; if you’re going to work the room, you have to work the entire room.
    6 hrs · Edited

    Fallon Fox Do I look like a suck up that works a room to please all people? If that was the case, you wouldn’t even know who I am now would you?
    5 hrs · 1

    Daralyn Maxwell Fallon – I work hard to do two things………make sure that everyone is thinking about others’ points of view, and making sure no one knows how that happened.
    5 hrs · Edited

    Më Batterbury So much evil here against trans women…. What about intersex women do you really hate them that much too…. Stop pretending and hiding your hate with other reasons most people can see right through you…
    5 hrs · 2

    Fallon Fox Daralyn

    Ok. Great.
    5 hrs

    Kynthia Alice Rosgeal Fallon. Your tone and personal attacks kind of make it hard to follow your thinking. Not policing you at all. Just and old ranch saying you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
    5 hrs · 1

    Fallon Fox Thanks for letting us all know how you operate Daralyn Maxwell. “Dirty game”. Dirty game at trans women’s expense?! Dirty game at transgender women’s expense…
    5 hrs · 1

    Fallon Fox Who’s expense was it that those people you mentioned did what to now if what you are saying is true?

    TERFs? Who?
    5 hrs

    Fallon Fox Because it looks in my opinion to be “real women” *wink wink* who are doing “dirty games” as transgender women’s expense.

    And how the hell is that cool with you again?
    5 hrs

    Fallon Fox Come on… lay it on me right here for all to see.
    5 hrs · 1

    Daralyn Maxwell Fallon Fox – the ‘dirty game’ is waged by a group of people; many displaced women and the rest by arch conservatives who just don’t want to recognize the march of social progress. Two disparate groups operating from vastly differrent platforms with the same target – US.

    One group uses the shifting logic of excuse; it’s never the same thing when elaborating on WHY trans women are not women and don’t deserve to be recognized as such. You can understand that, right?

    The other group manufactures lies and fear to disrupt the reality of trans women so that the level of misundertanding is heightened.

    The mission of me and mine is to systematically strip away the layers of BS from both extremes until all that’s left are people who really need to see the reality of fellow human beings. That’s a very delicate balancing act and requires much attention to detail and reality. If you want to consider that dirty, it’s on you.
    5 hrs · 1

    Daralyn Maxwell I’m not a huge fan of the term TERF; it just serves to antagonize a group of people you are trying to reach an accord and reason with.
    5 hrs

    Fallon Fox “I’m not a huge fan of the term TERF; it just serves to antagonize a group of people you are trying to reach an accord and reason with.”

    Interesting. Then you are not a fan if being “relevant” in the minds of trans women are you? TERF means something important. We’re not dropping the term.
    5 hrs · 1

    Fallon Fox The acronym, the abbreviation to be more precise….
    5 hrs

    Fallon Fox “Transgender exclusionary radical feminist” You’ll NEVER make me forget that phrase.
    5 hrs

    Fallon Fox You’ll never get me to downplay the obvious.
    5 hrs

    Fallon Fox It’s been 30 years. I’m not falling asleep for another 30. This ends now.
    5 hrs

    Daralyn Maxwell I didn’t say we should ever forget, Fallon. I don’t forget that most of my family was wiped out by Nazis but I’m not holding evey German on the planet responsble. I suffered a near fatal assault in ’97 and eventually got over my fear of elevators. But I never, EVER lose sight of the mission and accept that NOTHING will change overnight.

    Not all warriors are determined to conquer and eradicate with immediacy.
    4 hrs

    Fallon Fox NCLR. Is there a way to litigate Cathy Brennan for this statement? She said you betrayed her. Is she saying that you betrayed her because you helped men? Because, I could be wrong… But I kinda remember she often alludes as such. Which would in no way be true. Like, I kinda remember seeing stuff like that. But… Who knows. I could be mistaken. I suppose the only way we’d know is if someone had screenshots or something to prove it.

    Just wondering if that’s something NCLR does? Or do you believe that would be against the interest of “women’s business” if it were at all humanly possible…. After all, Cathy Brennan is a lawyer who I believe, [shucks, could be wrong there too] makes money as a lawyer?

    Just wondering if that was possible? If there would be no way humanly possible, no possible way on the books…. I’m sure the transgender community would be understanding at the whole situation.

    Look at what she said about you.

    4 hrs · 1

    Fallon Fox Unrelated question: Is Cathy Brennan a safe person? If she were not to be a safe person, who would she be hurting. What group of humanity?
    4 hrs

    Fallon Fox I wonder. If another entity [other than NCLR or course] were to litigate Cathy Brennan for any reason, would they be a hero in transgender women’s eyes? Just a thought, a question my mind had. Just thinking out loud of course.
    4 hrs · 1

    Rebekah Katherine Brewis Now you’re getting hot
    4 hrs

    Fallon Fox Unrelated to all of that. Because NCLR just alluded that they were not in league with Brennan. And Ya know… who am I to argue with NCLR? In my opinion, in the matter of Cathy Brennan of course there’s no possible way they would ever…. ever…. ever… be on her side. Oh no. No no no. Now, would I go and think a thing like that…?
    4 hrs

    Fallon Fox Unrelated to everything mentioned on this thread. Do you plan on litigating any transgender women soon for any reason? Because in my personal opinion, your money should be spent litigating Humans who do bad things to transgender people. And right now, transgender women are in such bad shape. We can’t afford litigation to any one of us unnecessarily. Necessary reasons are acceptable of course. But, right now. We’re at the bottom of the pile. Waaaaaaay down low. And WE need help.
    4 hrs · 2

    Fallon Fox So, I don’t know. Like I said. Unrelated to everything on this thread. Just railroading it and starting another one. Sorry Rebekah Katherine Brewis. Hijacking to another topic. I think it would be best, if you are thinking of litigating any transgender person anytime soon, it better be for a very, very good reason. I’m speaking to NCLR and Kate Kendel.

    And if you ever do. You better have some evidence to back you up out the wazoo. Because, I think that the perception of many transgender women in the community, alluded by this thread is obvious.

    Kate Kendel and NCLR, if you are wondering why I think that is obvious, simply ask me in this thread. I’ll be sure to answer you. I’m sure people some people reading will be happy to tap me on the shoulder if you ask. They are nice like that.
    4 hrs · Edited

    Dana Taylor Daralyn Maxwell “I’m not a huge fan of the term TERF; it just serves to antagonize a group of people you are trying to reach an accord and reason with.”

    Who? Who was trying to reach an accord with this bigoted group? And Daralyn, I see you telling us how we aren’t real women like cis women are. I find that offensive and your ideology will help keep women like me oppressed at the expensive of cis feelings.
    4 hrs · 2

    Daralyn Maxwell Fallon Fox – The reason Cathy Brennan makes those claim is that she denies any legitimacy of trans women >

    • GallusMag Says:

      Daralyn Maxwell Fallon Fox – The reason Cathy Brennan makes those claim is that she denies any legitimacy of trans women and, to her, we are just men who dress up with varyig degrees of success. Her disdain for trans women is legendary and she is among the most extreme of the extreme deniers.

      Safe? Some years ago she actually used the anti-bias sobriquet that she wasn’t anti-trans; she actualy had friends who were trans women. I couldn’t, for the life of me, figure out how much self-loathing one must wallow i to hitch your wagon to Cathy Brennan’s parade, She’s so radical she has lost the suport of some of her trans women disliking peers.
      3 hrs · 1

      Daralyn Maxwell Dana Taylor – The reason I say that (frequently) is that the term is antagonistic and doesn’t serve to lessen hostilities or even build the design to build the bridge of future understanding. At the same time, I have never claimed to be anything other than what I am, a trans woman of inestimable skills. The problem that comes in IS with the words. And it is further divided because not all trans women are, or operate, equally.

      My own opinion is that forcing our way into someone else’s safe space; for whatever reason; just smacks of the very issue(s) that radical feminists assign to us. This space is too small to give you all of the variables as to why this is or why I even feel this way but extensive experiences have led me to tis point. I will happily communicate on a positive level if you would like to know more,

      I/we have been doing grass roots advocacy for years in an effort to change minds a few at a time. I have seen significant progress in some quarters along with the fact that in 2015 there are fewer hostile anti-trans women willing to make public proclamations. But again, in a private, exansive dialog I can me clearer about that and other things.
      2 hrs

      Jennifer Trommler Mandi Camille Hauwert, can I just say that that was the most awesome, eloquent rant I have read in a long time? Seriously, you just managed to express pretty much I have ever wanted to say on the topic, only far more coherently than I could.
      1 hr

      Jennifer Trommler Daralyn Maxwell “I’m not a huge fan of the term TERF; it just serves to antagonize a group of people you are trying to reach an accord and reason with.” Sure, I’m perfectly willing to consider some alternative if it will be less antagonistic, but what term do we use? “Womyn-born womyn advocate”? I’ve tried to engage with TERFS on that point, but never gotten a coherent reply.
      1 hr

      Fallon Fox Really Daralyn Maxwell? Please tell us more. Don’t “force” your way into anything? How dare you insinuate that we are “forcing” ourselves in to a space that “IS” ours, or should be “ours”. Because we “ARE” women. We are… I don’t see “forcing” us into a place where we should already be anyway.

      I see us as protesting this nonsense. Would you agree with Lisa Vogal if she were to say “They are forcing themselves on us!”?

      Feel free to speak your mind. Go ahead.
      1 hr

      Jennifer Trommler Respectfully, I am rather curious about this “entitlement” which trans women allegedly have, as well. Do I feel “entitled” to be treated exactly the same as a “womyn-born womyn”? Yes, yes, I do.
      59 mins

      • Juliana D Says:

        Fox comes off as unhinged and wanting to force himself on women. Very rapey, how he talks. And that last line from “Jennifer” is disturbing. Being treated as a woman gives one privilege? AND it is an “entitlement”? These people have no idea what it is like to be born and raised female in a misogynistic society. None.

        These people are scary and have no respect for women. When will the left, the libfems, see it?

      • kesher Says:

        ‘Do I feel “entitled” to be treated exactly the same as a “womyn-born womyn”? Yes, yes, I do.’

        The refrain of every misogynistic man who thinks women not wanting to be around him is “oppression”. Also, he really, really wants to show us his dick.

      • GallusMag Says:

        The “transwoman” OP of the above Facebook thread (the one that NCLR’s Kate Kendell reassures has NCLR priority over actual women and lesbians) is named Jorey Lee Brewis/ Rebecca Brewis.

        Brewis was convicted and imprisoned for terrorizing a woman at knifepoint. During his sentence he successfully excised his testicles from his scrotum using his own sharpened fingernails as a scalpel.

        A terrifying and violent mentally-ill man.

        This is who Kate Kendell, and Emily and Erica and TM and women like them prioritize over the needs and rights of women and girls. This is who Kendell, NCLR, Emily, Equality Michigan, Erica, Stonewall Legal, and TM work for.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Holy crap, Gallus. He was also diagnosed with narcissistic and borderline personality disorders. Here’s a link to a nauseating story that actually expresses sympathy for this wacko (be forewarned, it describes how he castrated himself):

        http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-22429-kristina-olvera-says-she-is-a-woman-the-prison-system-says-he-is-a-man.html

        This is your hero, funfems. Hope you’re proud.

      • Derrick Jensen Says:

        Not a big surprise, the writer of the Portland article downplays the guy’s original crime. And of course shows no sympathy for his victim(s).

    • Miep Says:

      C’mon, dudes, you don’t really want to go to MichFest. You’ll get all misgendered and icky and dirty and muss up your hair and your nails.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      Wow, with regard to Fox – look at what happens when you tell a man “no”!

      Hey Fox, we’re sick of you too, and your male ego and rage. Things like this: “…you wouldn’t even know who I am now would you?” speak volumes about your delusions of grandeur.

      But this: “She tried to make me sleep. She tried to calm me. BUT WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK I AM…?” will live in infamy. And it should.

      Thanks for the sound bite that perfectly encapsulates the MtT mindset, dude!


      • Am I the only one who saw Joan Crawford brows when I read that line? “Trannie Dearest.”

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Something else that Fox said that warrants a closer look: “Kate can you tell us ever donor who donates to NCLR so that we can feel them out and see if they have pro trans track records? Every single donor… every one. Can you point to this information if it is listed online somewhere? I’d like us all to research that information. I want to check that area to ease my mind also.”

        So this flaming psychopath actually wants to research (stalk) every donor to NCLR to make sure they’re ‘pure’ enough for HIS standards. Let that sink in. Because that certainly shows the level of his arrogance, of his narcissism, of his creep factor, of his abusiveness, of his misogyny, all of the above and then some.

        This is your hero, Kate and Erica and Emily and TM and every dumbass funfem out there! This is your hero, trannies!

        The fact that this guy is under the LGBTWTF umbrella is Exhibit A of why I don’t donate to their organizations.

  48. Atranswidow Says:

    I haven’t commented on this post so far as I feel it’s not my place. I know nothing about MichFest, NCLR or the Task Force. I know nothing of Lesbian politics. For all those reasons I rightly don’t feel entitled to say anything here. Do I feel bitter or angry about that? No. I was brought up to be polite and not gate-crash the party. There are a lot of places I don’t go to for the same reason.

    So, to the last guy in that diatribe that i just read who said……….
    ‘I am rather curious about this “entitlement” which trans women allegedly have, as well. Do I feel “entitled” to be treated exactly the same as a “womyn-born womyn”? Yes, yes, I do.’……………………..
    Go back home and learn some basic good manners and FFS make your own party somewhere else. You’re perfectly entitled to do that.

    Just one thing I do feel entitled to say, however, is ‘Great work Gallus, I shall be cheering you all on from the sidelines’.

  49. shediogenes Says:

    I take it all back. After reading Fallon Fox’s comments, I must admit, FF doesn’t seem at all like a lowlife, violent, rage-filled, Boundary violating, misogynistic dood, not at all (*eyeroll*).

    Fallon Fox, giving career ending concussions to women at night, social justice warrior by day. Keep goin Fallon, keep confirming WBW’s point about why transwomen DON’T belong at Fest. For all of his rage and boundary violation, FF may wind up being one of our best allies

    • mayimoktoo Says:

      Even scarier – Fallon Fox has already trespassed Michfest. That entire screaming tantrum isn’t about exclusion, it’s about validation. Open doors aren’t enough, he wants open arms.

      But if, as he says, he’s “‘entitled’ to be treated exactly the same as a “womyn-born womyn” why does it matter? Just go stealth again and be a “woman.” Why this insane, violent need for WBW to know & recognize that he’s trans? Oh right, so that they can take care of him.

      It is good to know that the intention is keeping out some of the men. Especially the ones who seem one meltdown away from a DV charge.

      • shediogenes Says:

        I was at Fest in 2014. Thankfully, didn’t run across that smoking bundle of rage. I did have the misfortune of being across the table from Alice in the kitchen. Some of us put the chunks of potato in the bucket with our hands, and some smirking assholes scrape them into the bucket directly off a sharp knife. Was it my red shirt?

      • mayimoktoo Says:

        That is just so creepy that I don’t even have words.

        Ugh! Michfest must be important or those assholes wouldn’t want so badly to ruin it.


  50. @Gallus, “What they DO have their finger on the pulse of is lefty liberalism and “queer culture”. And in that capacity they have been indoctrinated for two decades in Jender Journey gobbledygook. And when I say indoctrinated, I mean pummeled. Brutalized. Screamed at, coerced, shamed, and threatened. Ceaselessly. Into submission.”

    They are so out of it that they don’t even realize how out of touch they have become. It’s like the proverbial “Emperor’s New Clothes”. Walled off in their happy little trans*/queer bubble, they are literally oblivious to reality. It’s both frightening and amusing at the same time.

    @Tm, WTF were you all this time?

    When making death threats against “TERFs” no longer works, just start bashing lesbians because they are a very easy target. The person known as tm needs to understand that what we do at this blog goes way beyond lesbians. We always put women first.

    There are several straight women who regularly visit this blog. Straight, bisexual, or lesbian, we are all sisters. We know that what impacts some women impacts us all. We don’t want to share a locker room with creepy cross dressing dudes with sexual fetishes like Carlotta Sklodowska, or trans registered sex offenders like Paul (Paula) Witherspoon anymore than any other woman. We don’t want our homeless sister, mother, or any female relative to be forced to share sleeping quarters with someone like Christopher, “Jessica”, Hambrook. Men like Colleen Francis frighten them. Transgender activists can try to shove this down our throats, but it’s not working. We know theses are creepy males, and many of them are dangerous. The fact that they might wear a dress is irrelevant.

    I know that most of this has been covered before on this blog and other websites, and I don’t want to regular readers. I want to know how tm could not have known all this was going on for years.

    (1.) Where was this person hiding when the numerous death threats against “TERFs” were flying all over the internet, and any woman who wasn’t officially trans* approved was being harassed, intimidated, black listed, etc.? I wonder if she uses the word “TERF” too, or condones its use.

    http://secretlyradical.blogspot.nl/2014/08/terfweek.html

    https://radfemsrespond.wordpress.com/recent-anti-feminist-hate-speech/

    (2.) Where was she when trans porn star Drew DeVeaux co-opted the second wave feminists term “glass ceiling” and contorted and twisted its historical meaning in some sort of queer/transified makeover in an attempt to shame lesbians into accepting penis on a transwoman? According to the “Cotton Ceiling” logic, it’s not a penis if he says it’s not, and lesbian just need to get with the program. Transgender activists knew full well how offensive this workshop was to lesbians, but they did it anyway.

    “The term cotton ceiling is a reference to the “glass ceiling” that second wave feminist identified in the workforce, wherein women could only advance so high in the workforce but could not break through into positions of power and authority. The cotton represents underwear, signifying sex.

    The theory of the cotton ceiling is useful in identifying the dynamic trans women are experiencing, and is meant to open up conversation around desirability’s intersections with transmisogyny and transphobia.”

    …There is nothing inherently male about a woman’s body, unless she identified things about it as male herself. So, no, I do not consider trans women with penises to be male-bodied, unless that is how they identify…

    This is seriously problematic for lesbians. What you are saying is lesbians – who desire sex with females – are somehow bigoted for that desire, no? That’s exactly what nontrans males say to us….

    https://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/the-cotton-ceiling-really/

    (3.) Someone needs to break the news to tm that there is a silent majority of women who aren’t buying into the trans dogma. There is nothing wrong with our ability to observe and reason. The vast majority of women don’t want the likes of creepy cross dressing dudes with a sexual fetish like Carlotta Sklodowska in women’s locker rooms. Mothers don’t want their 17 year old daughters being forced to see Colleen Francis and “her male genitalia”. Ex-wives of “transitioning” males are being told to be good trans allies and to ignore they own needs. It goes on and on, and they can’t silence all of us.


    • Hm. For some reason I thought cotton ceiling was re: feminine hygiene products…tampons, pads…things that transwomen have no need to purchase, discreetly keep on hand, nor share with others in case of emergency.

      Thank you for those links. It blows my mind that they think anyone who doesn’t think a transwoman is female is “transphobic” even if “she” has a penis. (wtf)

      By that logic, any male who thinks he is female is misogynist. Why? Because he is dismissing women, girls and our unique experiences and perspectives and authorizing himself to define womanhood without the input of women.

      I strongly believe in the female collective consciousness….that we all have ancient cell memory of being burned as witches among other things. Biological males don’t have that, and never will.

      It’s like when Vanilla Ice appropriated hip hop….or Elvis.

      Elizabeth Warren was pummeled for saying she had Native American ancestry in her (even though it was true.)

      So if whites get in trouble for “pretending” they are black or Native American, why is it ok for men to pretend they are women? And are therefore entitled to speak for us re: issues that matter only to women?

      It makes no sense. It’s biologically impossible to convert a man into a woman. And that indisputable FACT makes us bigots??

      Transwomen care nothing about reproductive rights, or childcare, or wage discrimination. Yet these issues are vital to women. Transwomen are NOT women. I will never accept them as such, no matter how they look.

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        LOL – “reproductive rights, or childcare, or wage discrimination” being issues that are “vital to women.” What women? Those things are B-O-R-I-N-G boring boring BORING!!!!!!! CHILDCARE???? Or how about eldercare? THERE IS NOTHING SEXY ABOUT CHILDCARE OR ELDERCARE!!!! Why would third-wave feminist highly-educated WOMEN give a fuck about those things!!!!! Those are so passe, so old hat – CARETAKING IS FOR SUCKERS!!!!!! LOSERS!!!!!

        And “wage discrimination” – that crap is so boring, so emotionally DISengaging – strikes, battling multinational corporations about PAY….what could be less interesting, don’t you know that’s NOT where the action is for today’s feminists? Who wants to stand in a fucking picket line, or walk out of some big office building, or ask for fucking ridiculous $15/hour from MCDONALD’s??? It’s kinda hip to be SO BUSY running around to meetings getting the rights for pros- I mean sex workers, and male cross- I mean transgenders, that you gotta “stop at McDonald’s” and grab a bite to eat! It’s like in an ironic kinda way, eating at McDonald’s is COOL!!!!!

        I mean, reproductive rights is sorta interesting…if you do it the right way, the intersectional way…but that’s not really my thing…I’m a third-waver!!!!!!!!

        (Sorry, had to see Ms. Dievendorf’s photo too many times, and I just lost control).


  51. Have people noticed that when Boyd Burton (Fallon Fox) gets upset, he starts talking like a macho dude? People can just sense it. I don’t care how much he paid the surgeon in Thailand to remove his testicles, his male socialization just seeps out.

    Fallon Fox. born male, ex-Navy man, scares the living hell out of me. Seriously, here is a man who inflicted this amount of damage on a woman all within three minutes time: an orbital bone fracture and damage to the scalp that required seven staples to close.

    Gendertrender covered this before, but women need to know what this man is capable of,

    Please sign the petition.

    https://www.change.org/p/mixed-martial-arts-llc-remove-fallon-fox-a-biological-male-from-women-s-mma

    They wanted to make Tamikka Brents bleed.

    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/fallon-fox-why-hormones-dont-make-a-woman/

    With the possible exception of Ronda Rousey, MMA are scary people. Intimidation is part of the game.

    The thought of Fox in Michigan Women’s Music Festival frightens me. Fox is the type of self-entitled, pompous dude who wouldn’t think twice about confronting any woman who doesn’t kowtow to his needs.

    The thought of Paula Witherspoon in Mich Fest frightens me, and someone like Christopher, “Jessica”, Hambrook would be disastrous. The damage these men could do would be truly tragic.

    “Fallon Fox Really Daralyn Maxwell? Please tell us more. Don’t “force” your way into anything? How dare you insinuate that we are “forcing” ourselves in to a space that “IS” ours, or should be “ours”. Because we “ARE” women. We are… I don’t see “forcing” us into a place where we should already be anyway.”

    No, Boyd. This is privately owned land, and women have a right to do as they please on their own property. Besides, Boyd Burton is not a woman. No one can force people to believe something that they know isn’t true. Most people really don’t believe that he is a “woman”. It might hurt his feelings, but it’s true.

    I really think Boyd Burton, Fallon Fox” could go off on a woman. We know what he did to Tamikka Brents.

    • dbrvnk Says:

      “The thought of Fox in Michigan Women’s Music Festival frightens me.”

      Me too. Once a man is not only beating up women but making a living from it, and being cheered on and supported unquestioningly by thousands of people… there’s really no de-escalating from that. He’s not going to get any less violent.

      If he decides to trespass again this year I hope you all stay safe. And ideally that he and his friends get discouraged from showing up again for a very long time.

  52. silverside Says:

    I used to spend a lot of time studying the men’s rights/fathers’ rights movement. And I know it’s been mentioned before, but the tone, the arguments, are exactly the same. What Kate and other women like her don’t apparently know is that they will turn on her–just like any abusive male will finally turn on any woman, no matter how “sweet” or “loyal.” The new girlfriends/wives, the new MRA female recruits are treated as “special” at first. You’re not like my first wife, the rotten b—h. You understand, blah, blah. Lots of grooming. But even when the women are speaking out on the men’s behalf, they will start attacking them unmercifully because they cannot tolerate ANY leadership, confidence, or outspokenness by women at all. Even when it is harnessed to their cause. Unless they are total idiots, people like Kate must get the scary vibe and understand that they are safe only as long as they are perceived as good girl/doormats who do the abuser’s bidding to the T. But abusers will continually test that female commitment and up the ante with “loyalty tests.” I’m sure some of these guys are already reacting like abusers and feeling “betrayed”–which means people like Kate may really be in danger. I’ve seen a lot of women quietly drop out of MRA groups over the years because it was like having lots of abusive husbands at once.

    • Atranswidow Says:

      So right, Silverside. Problem is it is so hard to realise that you are in an emotionally abusive relationship for all those reasons. After the initial honeymoon period is over you believe all the gaslighting. It took my best friend and my therapist to make me realise that he was the one with the problem, not me. Once I understood about narcissistic personality disorder everything slotted into place. And the only advice is to get out of the relationship asap.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      ^^^ YES, Silverside. Excellent observation. The dynamic is frighteningly – terrifyingly – the same. Not just similar; as you said, the same.

      What I’ve never been able to understand is how women don’t immediately run in the opposite direction the very first time he says something like the “rotten bitch” example you used. That’s what’s known as a little (O.K., HUGE) red flag. But I guess that’s an example of when the social conditioning women go through to be nice, understanding, and nurturing kicks in. (I suspect it’s also hard for me to understand because, as a lesbian, it’s difficult for me to imagine being so attracted to a man that I’d let it override my instincts, so there’s that too.😉 )

      I wonder what became of the women you speak of who dropped out of the MRA groups. I wonder what they think now, and how they are doing…

    • kesher Says:

      ‘What I’ve never been able to understand is how women don’t immediately run in the opposite direction the very first time he says something like the “rotten bitch” example you used.’

      It’s a really complicated issue for many women. We’re conditioned from birth to see male rage directed at us as normal, even desirable in certain contexts. And women who are attracted to the conservative/anti-feminist/MRA mindset are looking for ways to prove why they aren’t like “typical” women. If anything, “you’re not like that rotten bitch” line works better on them than anyone else. Those men are telling them outright that they’re better than most women. Many people want to see themselves as exceptional. Combine that with internalized misogyny, and women who are attracted to the conservative/anti-feminist/MRA mindset are always going to be looking for ways that they’re better than the rest of us.

      They see women being treated as second-class citizens, and their response isn’t to advocate for better treatment; their response is to blame women for that treatment and to position themselves as above the rest of us. We’re treated like second-class citizens because we’re “stupid women”; those women have convinced themselves that they aren’t/won’t be treated that way because they’re not “stupid” and “irrational”, and men will supposedly notice this and adjust their treatment accordingly.

      We well know that this is nonsense. Misogynistic men hate strong, smart, confident women far more than they hate timid women, but good luck convincing anti-feminist women of that.

      • mayimoktoo Says:

        Kesher,

        Exactly, I completely agree.

        There will always be women who feel “safer” by being one of the boys. Not in a trans sense, in a Stockholm syndrome sense. They are rewarded for saying things like “I never got along with women, I understand men better.” or “I believe in equality, that’s why I’m not a feminist.”

        With individual women it’s difficult to feel much empathy but as a phenomenon, it makes sense. Women’s lives are simply and statistically more dangerous. All women find ways to cope.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Excellent explanations, Kesher and Mayimoktoo – those are angles I hadn’t thought of. Thanks for helping me to understand!

  53. Robin Says:

    My husband left me and our little kid six months ago because he told us he is transgendered.

    With in three days of moving out he had found a young, lesbian, pro trans therapist and he told me “I just am using her to get the hormones, she is so fat I would never really see her for therapy.”

    This therapist wrote him a letter for his physician and in two weeks he was taking hormones. I could not, and still can’t believe that this could have happened without someone (besides myself!) saying-Hold on a sec, lets make really sure that you need to make this irreversible changes to your body, your family, your entire identity.

    His next step was to find a clinic that was trans focused and they started the paperwork to have the full surgery in two years. His new Dr. has not done any psychological work with him and has cheered him on with higher hormones IM shots and 190.00 per visit fees.

    I wish that he could just say to the world;

    “Hey! I like dresses, I want to be pretty and I’m a guy with a beard and a wife and kid and that’s totally cool.”

    Forget this “Becoming a woman” statement (because, obvs impossible) and say “Everyone is free to dress and act and feel however the want”. Blur the gender expectations of society rather then try to force your body into doing something very unnatural and dangerous.

    These drugs he is injecting have side effects. His lifespan could be diminished, his blood pressure is at risk and we have a kid! A little kid who is super sad that her Dad is going away.

    It makes more sense to have a Dad in a skirt then to have your Dad suddenly tell you he is “…now a woman like mom and I’m getting boobs and so a real woman.”

    My kid is confused and worried. She asked me, can I change into a boy accidentally? Sheesh.

    I’m so, so, SO GLAD I found this page!

    I’ve been feeling like everyone around me has been bamboozled.

    Its stunning how many people have cheered him on without seeing the massive collateral damage left behind in the desire to become someone else. . . you know, I would love to be a bird and fly around the city. . .I”ll identify as a robin from this point. . .

    • Zemskull Says:

      Hello Robin: Thanks for posting your story. I’m curious: what do MTTs expects their kids to call them? I can imagine that a young girl who’s told to call her father “Mom” would resist that.

    • Lauren Says:

      I am so sorry that you and your daughter are being put through this. The lowest of the low in the trans cult are the men who trick a women into loving and marrying them and then father children with them just to ‘come out’ years later with the sick ‘ha ha, gotcha. surprise! I have laydeebrain! ACCEPT MEEEEE!!!!!’

      The damage to your family will not be easily mended and there will be scars forever, but I really hope you and your daughter come through this okay.

      • AreUSayingWhatUThink Says:

        I was involved with a couple of men like this – but only BRIEFLY – we weren’t anywhere near getting married or having kids. But still it feels like they were both relationship “nonevents” – it’s hard sometimes for women who have never been involved with a man “who wants to be a woman” to sympathize, or understand – it’s like, MEN like that should get more understanding (someone actually said this to me – is it okay that I feel humiliated that everyone apparently knew this man was like this, I went out with him, and NOBODY TOLD ME, I had to find out once I was dating him – I wonder now if people thought I knew and was okay with it, but I wasn’t okay with it, I couldn’t understand it – and then again, he’d said weird things about being accused of rape, and bad mouthing feminists, and being a peeping tom……..I felt like the female “friend” who fixed us up, wanted to take me down a peg or two, she wanted to hurt me, put me on her level (she was completely depressed, completely man-centered pothead) I mean, even though I didn’t date either of these men very long, it had a HUGE impact on me, trust wise – I’m always waiting for the “reveal,” the BIG SECRET some man has, that I won’t find out about till I’m deeper into the relationship (so the cost of leaving is higher – they call that “sunk cost” in economics) – I feel stupid and humiliated getting involved with men like this – so I can imagine being MARRIED and HAVING KIDS – What the hell THAT feels like…it’s emotional abuse, pure and simple. I’m not perfect, but I’m not hiding some “big secret” that I know will devastate or shock someone…I try to get all my garbage out there early in a relationship, even with women friends, I try to get any points of disagreement or tension out there (like politics, I don’t lie or pretend to be less liberal (or radical) than I actually am, I don’t pretend to be less feminist, even if I know they won’t like it or understand it)…I feel like with men, the secrets they keep are just mind-blowing…I guess women can be the same way…but it’s like their secret lollypop, they only suck on when alone…oh they love that lollypop! And then you get in a relationship with them, they try to be the perfect boyfriend…WHY…because at some point they’re gonna wanna share their secret lollypop, and want you to love it the way they do. And you simply can’t.

    • mayimoktoo Says:

      Robin, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It sounds frustrating and horrible. It’s a shame that he can’t see that you, the relationship, and your daughter are far more important than his narcissistic need to play dress up.

      Your story is heartbreaking. I hope that you and your daughter find the support you need.

      Speaking of which, if he’s such a woman now, shouldn’t he be taking over the majority of housework and child care so that you can work on your own career and personal growth? Doesn’t he want to do “laydee!” correctly?

    • Atranswidow Says:

      Robin,
      I feel so tremendously for you. I know just what you’re going through. I must say that you seem a lot more accepting of the cross dressing than i ever was. The first time I saw my ex’s facebook picture, complete with long blonde wig, i was absolutely traumatised.

      My biggest problem was that he didn’t ever intend to move out. I had to get a court order. I’m in the middle of a legal and financial nightmare. All I can say is protect yourself and your child. Look after your finances before he spends it all on laser zapping that beard away.

      I agree that one of the hardest things to bear was, and still is, is how people have aided and abetted him. I lost a lot of acquaintances but gained a much deeper level of friendship with those who turned out to be real friends. I realised the special bond that there is between women who have real empathy for each other for the first time. Christine Benvenuto writes about that in her book ‘Sex Changes’. It’s a must read for women in our position.

      I hate to say this but don’t worry too much about his health. He is old enough to make decisions about what he puts into his own body. If he’s started HRT then he wont want to know about the side-effects. My ex had several health issues that he blamed on the stress that I caused him! Yes, it was me that caused him to be hospitalised for heart problems, nothing at all to do with the drugs he was taking!

      That’s why I consider myself a widow. I lost him both body and mind. Like widows we need to grieve and then move on.

    • Dorothy Mantooth Says:

      Robin, coming in a couple of days late to say I am so sorry to hear this.

      You are NOT alone. Aside from some of the wonderful women here, this happened to my MIL. Luckily none of the children in that case were young, but it still caused serious problems for them–it was so devastating to his son that he moved to another country. My ex-stepFIL–who now is “a woman,” although he looks, talks, and behaves exactly like a man–barely has a relationship with his children anymore. He’s rarely permitted to see his biological grandchildren, and then only with supervision. (We allow him to see our daughters, but with the caveat that he is NOT to “present” as anything but male around them. We do not call him by his ridiculous tranny name and our girls are not even aware that he goes by a different name around other people.)

      His health has been seriously damaged, but as others have said, he made/is making his own choice.

      Anyway. Like you, my MIL found that there was zero support for her, and everyone, from therapists to online “support” groups, told her she was the one with the problem because she wasn’t thrilled at the idea of sleeping with/being married to a tranny, and didn’t believe that he could actually “become” anything more than a castrato with fake breasts, which is exactly what he is. More than once she ended up in tears because of how she was spoken to and treated by those people, and because they made her feel like SHE was the one at fault, SHE was the one whose behavior was cruel and unforgivable. It’s likely you will run into people who will say the same to you or treat you the same way. DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. YOU ARE NOT WRONG TO THINK THIS IS HORRIFYING AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT WRONG TO PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER IN ANY WAY YOU CAN.

      (Sorry for the all-caps, but I feel the above needs an emphasis as strong as I can possibly give it.)

      I cannot imagine how difficult this must be for you, having a young child. I am absolutely furious on your and her behalf at the monstrous selfishness and disregard for both of you that this man is displaying.

      I really wish I could offer you some real advice or help. All I can tell you is that my MIL wishes very much that she had done several of the following things (this was about fifteen years ago now, and not in the US, and of course every situation is different, but you may want to consider or look into these things, which are of course not legal advice and I am not a lawyer):

      1. She wishes she had filed for divorce much earlier in the process. Please find a good lawyer, the best you can possibly get, and of course try to find one who doesn’t buy into this gender garbage–I am sure they’re out there, even if they’re quiet about it. Yes, no-fault divorce etc., but that doesn’t mean there aren’t fine points and issues on which your being the filing party (and him being the one to move out, which in some states means he’s voluntarily given up his claim to full custody), and your doing that filing earlier as opposed to later, can be advantageous for you. Either way, speaking to a lawyer as early as possible will help, even if his or her advice is to do nothing for now.

      2. She wishes she had taken steps to protect her assets and force a legal agreement on some specific financial issues. These are probably not present in your situation but specifically, she wishes she had gotten an agreement on paper about inheritances; the two of them had never done much saving for retirement since he had a wealthy mother and his inheritance was expected to be a big part of their nest egg. Of course, he then went–behind my MIL’s back–to his mother and asked for that money so he could fly off to another country and have cosmetic surgery. Bye-bye inheritance, bye-bye MIL’s secure retirement. She never got in writing what she was entitled to financially, and as a result she got screwed.

      3. Along those lines, pull your credit reports NOW. Do NOT let him implicate you or involve you in the massive amounts of debt he’s likely to incur. Most if not all of these guys have no compunctions about using joint assets for their transitions and even taking out loans in both spouse’s names etc. Put a special notification on your credit files that you are to be contacted if anyone tries to open new lines of credit etc. Seriously, don’t think he won’t do it. He’s made it clear how little he cares about his wife and child and your futures already.

      4. It might be worth finding a child psychologist/therapist to speak to your daughter, not only because it might help her but because psychological reports might come in handy when it comes to custody issues. Once again, try to find one who sees the trans delusion for what it is; the tranny complex is very popular right now but I am certain they’re not all on board.

      5. Document EVERYTHING. When he embarrasses your poor child by lying in front of her at the nail salon, write it down. When he drags her to the store and she has to stand there humiliated while he tries on bras, write it down. The date, the approximate time, the location…anything and everything.

      The last two aren’t so much me suspecting there will be issues or custody battles or whatever, but you want to be prepared. Best-case scenario, you just toss the file out eventually. But worst-case scenario, you have evidence of psychological and emotional harm to your child. He’s legally entitled to “transition” and to force your innocent daughter to witness it, but he is not legally entitled to expose her to harm or perversions. Again, a good lawyer is key here and will have real advice for you.

      And of course, talk to her about this, and let her know she can say anything to you, etc.–I’m sure you already know and are doing that, since I’m sure you’re a wonderful mother. And oh, let her know she can refuse to see him, she can refuse to let him play dress-up in front of her, she can refuse to call him “Mom,” etc. She has that right. Let her know she’s not being a bad daughter if she doesn’t let him guilt her into pretending she thinks he’s her second mother now, or whatever. She is entitled to her own feelings and thoughts, and she doesn’t have to feel guilty or bad about it.

      My MIL also wishes she’d set aside things that were important to her, in terms of certain belongings and such. She really wishes she hadn’t indulged him as long as she did, agreeing to help him learn to apply make-up and things like that. She wishes she had told more people what was going on, because he, of course, loved to tell people what he was doing almost as much as he loved to put on his tranny drag costume and hang out in local bars and pubs convincing himself that all the men and women in there were hot for him. So he ended up controlling the narrative as far as their friends and neighbors and town in general, instead of her. At the time, of course, she was so humiliated she didn’t want anyone to know, but now she wishes she’d asked for more support.

      There are, as other have said, more sensible women who don’t buy into this nonsense out there than it seems. I really hope you find some, and of course that we get to see you here more often. And I really hope the above has helped. I wish there was more I could say or do, but here’s a big huge virtual (((((((hug))))))) for you both. You can get through this (Hell, if my MIL could, anybody can, lol) and you’re going to be fine.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        FUCK YEAH, DOROTHY MANTOOTH!! I love you. You are a queen, a crone, a sister among women.

    • Oceans Says:

      I am so terribly sorry you and your child are having to go through this. It’s so hard to watch the groupthink and social correctness going on regarding transgenderism. I can’t imagine how hard it is from your perspective.


  54. “My kid is confused and worried. She asked me, can I change into a boy accidentally?”

    That’s heartbreaking😦.

    I hope more and more women who had to deal with gendersick men find each other because in my opinion it’s time for a support group or platform.

    • Atranswidow Says:

      That was the first question my eldest son asked too…’could it happen to me?’, closely followed by wanting to know who knew about it.
      Amen, to the support group. The only ones that there are have the hidden agenda of convincing everyone to get on board with the programme.
      The leaflets produced by GIRES in the UK entitled ‘Your Dad’s Adventure’ aimed at young children or ‘Your Dad’s Story’ (there’s a Mum’s version as well) aimed at teenagers are some of the most ill informed pieces of propoganda writing I have ever read. I can’t believe that anyone would ever feed this government sponsored koolaid to their kids. But the pressure is tremendous. I refused point blank to take my kids along to the hospital. They still refuse to see him ‘en femme’, but he keeps pushing.
      I’ve just reread the ‘Your Dad’s Adventure. It’s even worse than I remember…..’And it’s not just on the outside that we all grow into boys and girls, and later, men and women, but on the inside as well, in the way that we feel about ourselves. It shows in the games we like to play and the friends we choose and the clothes we wear. But there are ways in which we are all special and different from each other as well.
      And your Dad is a very special person. There are only a few people who are special in the way that your Dad is, so you won’t meet them very often.’
      You can read these creepy fairy stories here http://www.gires.org.uk/explaining.php

      • GallusMag Says:

        those are INSANE.

      • Lauren Says:

        I’m going to have nightmares. Those foetal graphics were horrific. They’re trying to make it seem like this trans delusion is something certain people are born with, and that’s greatly disturbing given that there’s not one study that has even come close to a conclusion that transies are born with their delusion.


      • From the MtF PDF:

        “It shows in the games we like to play and the friends we choose and the clothes we wear.”

        FAIL.

        Gender roles are imposed on us by society, and are always changing.

        They say that having a vagina doesn’t make a female a woman. So then why do they bother with getting any surgery at all?

        They are the reductionists, not us. They reduce womanhood to fake (perfect) breasts, wigs, make up, dresses, etc.

        They reduce children to color preference…if a boy likes pink, he’s a girl. And to activity preference…If a girl likes mud, she’s a boy.

        That’s homophobic, and why many in the GLB community want to drop the T. The heart of Gay Pride is accepting ourselves as we are, societal expectations be damned.

      • KgSch Says:

        Those fetal diagrams are pretty horrifying. I feel like I need a drink, but it’s morning where I live and I have to go to work to mail some things.

        Everything about this is so creepy and wrong. Talk about emotional abuse. I am just glad that your kids (ATransWidow and Robin) have a decent mom who didn’t force them to go along with dad’s delusions. Even if most people go along with the cult lie, I don’t. I support women, not men who think they are women. (Those men are often so incredibly women/lesbian-hating even though they wish they were us.)

        That is some nightmare government propaganda right there. If it was a private organization, it would still be fucked up and creepy, but at least your taxes wouldn’t be going to it. I also heard the UK pays for hormones, surgery, and the other bs for these dudes.

        Speaking of which, Iran executes lesbians and gays, but if they get a “sex-change” paid for by the religious fundie government, then they can avoid execution. That should tell people that the trans trend is in no way progressive, in fact it is lesbian and gay-hating.

        Yes, those hormones and things like that are not healthy at all, but I figure that grown-adults can make their own decisions and if they do something stupid like take cross-sex hormones because of a sexual fetish the consequences are on them. That makes it even more horrifying that some parents are pushing their kids to be trans and forcing them to take these drugs before puberty.

        I do think women who were formerly married/partnered with these dudes need a support group. From what I’ve read, most support groups are careful about toeing the trans party line.


  55. “So, although he won’t look quite the same, he will still be the same person inside and he will still love you.”

    That’s for children of ftm mothers.

    Same person, my ass! Testosterone often changes the personality drastically. I feel so sorry for the children who are told these gross lies.

    • GallusMag Says:

      “So, although he won’t look quite the same, he will still be the same person inside and he will still love you.”

      Unless you “misgender” Mommy and then he will call you a cissexist little shit. Or “world’s tiniest douchebag” :
      http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/2pwynz/what_would_you_want_your_kids_to_call_you/cn0ualo

    • kesher Says:

      This reminds me of when Dan Savage told an MTT to hold off on his transition because of the effect it would have on his young children. Hoo boy, did the trans have a field day with that. I think that was the turning point for Savage becoming viciously pro-trans. Either join the cult or get dragged by it. I’m surprised he still has dealings with Alice Dreger, J. Michael Bailey, and Ray Blanchard. I guess the transcult hasn’t completely brainwashed him yet.

  56. mayimoktoo Says:

    Gallus, from that same thread:
    Our son was like that too. Before she came out and was still always presenting male, he was never willing to accept Daddy was a boy. We would work on his pronoun confusion, telling him to use she/her for girls and quizzing him on which gender people were. Mommy (me)? She a girl. Grandma? She a girl. Himself? I a boy. Daddy? …Both? I don’t know! Cue tantrum.

    He immediately accepted that Daddy is a girl. He had a lot of trouble adjusting to her new presentation and switching to calling her Mommy, though. He’s very stubborn and he would avoid her to avoid the situation. He only finally switched over when I was recovering from surgery and she had to do everything for him. Any time he asked for something, she would correct him and make him ask with the proper language before she did it for him. If we could find a counselor willing to take a kid his age, he would be in therapy.

    I could cry for that poor kid.

    • Teal Deer Says:

      Ugh, can you imagine? I doubt “Daddy/Mommy” was patient and gentle about it. No kidding, of course kiddo’s going to learn Daddy’s new title firmly, if he can’t get his needs meet until he uses the “right” title. How can non-trans transactivists defend the way these kids are treated? In any other scenario, I’m sure they’d recognize it as the abuse it is.

  57. Atranswidow Says:

    Thank you wonderful women! This is the first time that I have seen in print any discussion of what the children of trans parents go through.

    These kids are far more deserving of public support and sympathy than any trans-child. The problem is partly that that last thing they want is for any one , least of all their peers, to know that their parent is in any way different. They are absolutely torn in pieces from loyalty and love towards the parent who is betraying them at such a fundamental level and that need that we all have as a child to be accepted and fit in.

    Without proper counseling these kids are going to grow up with a lot of unresolved problems. Those leaflets offered by GIRES just add to the sense of guilt and shame these kids have.

    Parents who think like I do are labelled as ‘hostile’ elsewhere in GIRES literature and it is a term I have seen picked up and used elsewhere, indeed had thrown at me by my ex.

    This is the first line from GIRES ‘about us’ page……………….
    ‘Biology, through genetic and hormonal interactions, determines the structure of the brain as male or female and is a major factor in the development of gender identity from the moment of conception, through the fetal stage and postnatally.’………………!!!!?????

    These are their aims……….’ to generate supportive attitudes among all those who can make those improvements happen, including politicians, other policy makers, clinicians, the providers of commercial and government services including the police, teachers, employers, and journalists, as well as other family members.’

    The makers of those leaflets for children have tremendous clout and are paid by the taxpayer. They are the official providers of information on all matters trans in the UK. In other words a frighteningly Orwellian propaganda machine.

    • GallusMag Says:

      “The problem is partly that that last thing they want is for any one , least of all their peers, to know that their parent is in any way different.”

      Kids are really into conformity as they try to make sense of the world and place things into categories, figure out social norms. All kids have to come to terms with the fact that their parents and families of origin are not “normal”, whether because a parent is differently-abled, or is an immigrant with cultural or language differences, or because mom runs a funeral home or dad has long hair and wears eye-liner.

      All kids are probably mortified by their parents.

      The difference here is lying to children, and/or forcing them to pretend something is true that is not true. It’s perfectly well to subject a kid to a parent who believes that Freemasons run the country. The problem comes when the kid is required to soldier for that parent’s belief. It seems especially damaging when a child is used by a parent as a malleable tool of affirmation for the benefit of the parent’s emotional life. Forced adherence to “family secrets” fall into this category as well.

      Telling a kid that her dad is becoming a tranny because he believes personality traits are rooted in reproductive biology is one thing (a horrible thing to feminists, lesbians and gays, granted). Forcing that kid to also believe, or pretend to believe that papa has now become female, on his command, is abusive.

      It’s no different than a David Koresh type situation.

      It’s okay (at least legally!) for dad to believe he is The Prophet. Forcing his children under duress to affirm his belief is abusive. Forcing the child to soldier for that belief, even more so.

      • Miep Says:

        That right there, Gallus.

      • Atranswidow Says:

        Yes, I agree, kids should be helped to deal with the fact that Mum or Dad is different for all those reasons that you state.
        With family support and sympathetic friends kids can embrace these differences, even celebrate them.

        But to force a teenage boy to have a type of ‘coming out’ along the lines of ‘my Dad is now a woman’ on top of the personal trauma associated with witnessing the loss of that paternal figure, just when they are trying to sort out their own emerging sexuality is, as you say, abusive.

      • Atranswidow Says:

        Oh, and don’t forget that trans have the trump card when it comes to ‘persuading’ kids that they really should be OK with Dad changing into a woman….’I have to do it, the only other choice would be suicide’.
        I shall never forgive my ex for saying that. The sad thing is that he doesn’t see that as a problem, merely stating facts in his view.

      • Loup-loup garou Says:

        And the kids have to be part of the parents’ support system, whether they volunteered for that or not.

        That situation’s not supposed to come up until the kids are well into adulthood and the parents are well into old age and in need of assistance. Sometimes it happens earlier due to illness, but it’s a rough thing to go through. And NO ONE, at any age, should have to be a cheerleader for Dad or Mom’s second puberty, for eff’s sake.

  58. Robin Says:

    In our case, a few months ago when he first started getting his nails painted at a local salon he put the reason squarely on her seven year old shoulders telling the woman “I’m just doing this because she wanted me to have pink nails.” In reality she had not asked or mentioned nails or nail polish color to him!
    Later, we talked about how she had not asked for this to happen, but it was confusing for her as getting her nails painted was a pretty fun and exciting thing, this is where I feel so frustrated. I want her-my kid-to be able to have a happy calm childhood where, yep getting nails painted can be a fun hour together, not something that is slightly odd and uncomfortable and leaving not just her, but ALL the women in the salon feeling weird. There is a whole sub story to the MTF movement and the more I look objectively and also through heartache of how this effects myself and my kid the more I feel like people, women, need to start talking about the reality vs. the fiction. We should not carry a lie for other people and we should not be asking our kids to do so either. Her Papa is a man and that is the actual, factual reality. If he wants to change the sexist, gender based society by wearing women clothing etc, changing his name, etc, that is fine, but to ask us to activity deny the truth of his human nature—-well nope, not me and not my kid.

    • Lauren Says:

      “I’m just doing this because she wanted me to have pink nails.”

      What a coward. There would be nothing wrong with a father getting his nails done with his daughter if he was actually doing it to have quality time with her and to have some fun together. That’s not what happened here though. Your husband, the coward he is, was not at all interested in quality time or having fun with your daughter. Instead he used her, abused their relationship, abused her trust, lied, and manipulated his way into an experience he probably got off on whilst the same time trying to make it seem like he was somehow being coerced by your daughter to sacrifice his masculinity. This was a form of abuse.😦

      • GallusMag Says:

        “Forced Feminization by Child” YUCK yuck yuck yuck yuck.
        RED FLAG! RED FLAG!

      • Em Says:

        Sounds a bit like Christine Benvenuto’s reports that Mr. Benvenuto turned visitation with their daughter into girly time, when the two of them would “feminize.” Not surprisingly, the child ended up feeling creeped out and dirtied, and last I heard these special moments with her father had became an item of discussion with her therapist.

    • dbrvnk Says:

      “I’m just doing this because she wanted me to have pink nails.”
      god that is so fucking creepy

  59. CKE Says:

    I don’t if this is the best place to say this, but apparently this is the last year of MichFest. The transactivism has officially destroyed women’s basic rights to freedom of association, and the death of women’s rights is being applauded by all the good “leftists” (Socialist Worker, Huffington Post, etc.).

    This is a sad day for women everywhere, and I think all women should know it’s not going to stop here. It will not stop until they have destroyed all women’s spaces and all women’s rights–our right to association, our right to speech, our right to safety.

    https://www.facebook.com/michfest


  60. […] Here at GenderTrender we get a lot of queries and searches from women whose male partners or husbands have just declared their intention to transition and “become a woman”. Today a reader left a very interesting list of things her mother-in-law says she wish she had known, or that she had done, when her husband did this to her. Here is the comment, originally left HERE: […]

  61. MEW Says:

    As someone who has been a supporter of MichFest for close to 30 years and a lesbian even longer, I am surprised by the comments of many women on this post. Where in God’s name is the data about trans women (i.e. MTF) attacking and raping lesbians or other women coming from? I have been a reader of Lesbian Connection for at least this length of time and have never seen any mention of such behavior. At Family Week in Ptown last year we met many youngsters like this who are terribly discriminated against. I for one have no objection to trans women joining MichFest. And were this not the last MichFest, I might indeed be inclined to boycott it. I have a much easier time accepting someone looking like a woman despite having male genitalia, then I do many of the butches striding around with their dildos hanging down.

    • GallusMag Says:

      You should boycott it, since you hate women. Your presence there is like a little toxic nub of misogyny and self-hatred. If you had any ethics whatsoever you would have boycotted Michfest and gone to Fantasia Fair with your true brethren. (Although I suspect that is actually what you do).
      P.S. Also LOL your question asking for “data” showing that males rape women. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.

    • Mortadella Says:

      What the fuck are you on about?


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