Dr. Drew Show: Violent Trans Activist Zoey Tur grabs panelist by the neck and threatens to send him “home in an ambulance” for calling Tur genetically male

July 17, 2015

Violent trans Zoey Tur:

Violent trans Zoey Tur: “You’ll go home in an ambulance”

“You cut that out now or you’ll go home in an ambulance,” threatened helicopter pilot Bob “Zoey” Tur to fellow Dr. Drew panelist Ben Shapiro, after grabbing the Orthodox Jewish man and holding him by the back of his neck.

Shapiro had offended Tur by commenting that “transwomen” are chromosomally male. Tur responded that chromosomes were irrelevant to genetic sex, because of people with Kleinfelter’s syndrome. Dr. Drew interjected that Tur couldn’t win on the genetics argument and should “stick with the brain scans”. Shapiro then asked Tur, “What are your genetics, Sir?” Which is when Tur grabbed him and threatened to hospitalize him, live on air.

GenderTrender usually avoids linking to Conservative websites, but the HLN network that airs the Dr. Drew Show is apparently censoring the exchange. You can view it [link removed] on Breitbart.com at approximately the 5:20 mark. I’ll replace the link with an HLN or YouTube version if/when when available.

Shapiro reports on Twitter that Tur continued the threats off camera, stating he would “see [Shapiro] in the parking lot”. The panelist had to be escorted off the lot by security for his own protection. Tur has not yet been charged.

[UPDATE: Video is here, incident at around the 1:30 mark]

388 Responses to “Dr. Drew Show: Violent Trans Activist Zoey Tur grabs panelist by the neck and threatens to send him “home in an ambulance” for calling Tur genetically male”


  1. […] Whoah! I’m going to do the unprecedented and link to a Noted Radfem Blog because I nearly wet myself laughing at this. […]

  2. anon male Says:

    The silencing of transwomen’s anger is one of the pillars of patriarchy.

    It’s the duty of feminists to encourage transwomen to express their full range of emotions and not be limited to froufrou affectations.

    Read more here:

    http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/the-media-mens-emotions/

    (sorry in advance for the link to a conservative website.)

    • Biscuit Says:

      It’s the duty of feminists to call out violent and deranged male behavior.

    • mayimoktoo Says:

      Anon male, Weird how the MtT’s “full range of emotions” tends toward aggression. It’s almost as if you’re saying “let them keep performing masculinity when they want something and performing femininity doesn’t work.”

      MtT’s want to keep the male privilege of shutting people down, threatening them verbally or physically, being the loudest voice in the room, presenting opinion as fact without being challenged, etc. That’s disgusting but normal. They are male and they have been socialized to expect a certain amount of innate respect that is not afforded to women.

      But please don’t expect those of us who loathe the constraints of gender to “encourage” them passively by allowing it, especially when women are too often the targets.

      • GallusMag Says:

        @mayimoktoo- anon male is a long time G/T contributor. His post is his sarcastic synopsis of the article link he posted, which relates to the topic of this thread.

      • mayimoktoo Says:

        Gallus, I did not know that which is pretty obvious from the tone of my post.

        Anon Male, I am sorry. I let my visceral disgust at violence get in the way of my reading comprehension. I will be more careful in the future.

      • anon male Says:

        My bad. I’m sorry about the confusion, especially with the second post below; that was just a bit of laziness on my part.

        In today’s news, another feminist is helping to rehabilitate masculinity and get men back to the sensitive, caring, and happy go lucky “masculinities” of yesteryear’s:

        http://melindatankardreist.com/2015/07/the-mask-you-live-in-challenging-harmful-cultural-messages-about-masculinity-sydney-premiere-thursday/

        “Masculinity has increasingly been about aggression, dominance, control and power”

        Increasingly? Did she like miss all of human history or something?

        I guess that’s what happens when you’re a corporate opportunist, believing that so long as you stay out of trans issues you’ll be “safe” — you’ll end up utterly defenseless when genderists show up with a shiny new documentary they want you to help sell.

      • joeybrite Says:

        I could not ‘reply’ to the post that is lower than this one of yours, but if that post of Anon male was sarcastic, it was very poorly written and did not come across as sarcasm at all. So I was with your comment here. But to apologize for not *getting* the badly written *joke*? No no no. That is exactly what females need to stop doing – apologizing. The world would be more than a wee bit better off if males apologized more and females stood up for their actions more. But to get to the original point:
        I am struck at the irony that there are many of us are finding alliances with conservative hacks who mostly hate us, but can see right through this ridiculous trend to push us all on the train of painting the stripes on the horse and using ‘zebra’ as the new identity/language for the description of that being. This has been and continues to be a dangerous trend indeed.

      • mayimoktoo Says:

        Joeybrite,

        I don’t want to get into a big ole thing here. I’ll just say that camaraderie with women, especially the few women who share my frustration with this issue, is more important to me than “being right.”

        Women *are* socialized to roll over, give in, or make ourselves smaller to avoid conflict. Recognizing/overcoming that socialization is an important part of radical feminism. I recognize what you’re saying and that conversation is important. But for me, during this discussion, it isn’t applicable.

      • Charlotte Says:

        @joey brite, the conservatives don’t side with rad fems on the issues of gender for morally righteous reasons (which I’m sure you know)

        On the contrary: conservative patriarchy is the “virgin” part of the “virgin whore” complex patriarchy is riddled with.

        Right wing males want to keep women the definition of breeding chattle.

        Where as left wing males with their “whore complex” want to make all women free sex objects. So for them, a man that performs feminity and wants to be fucked like their porno “sexual liberation” hive mind dictates, should be glorified as woman (to teach us lowlier real womenz how to be a “sexually liberated” woman).

        Right wing = privately property
        Left wing = socially owned sex object

        There is no real progressive ideology in either movement.

        Hetero women increasingly find themselves choosing between these paths. Do I date that guy that saddles me with kids and takes my autonomy, the gilded cage of “motherhood”? Or do I play the part of “empowered whore”.

        What freaks me out is, I started a lib fem, and thought rad feminism’s answer od polotical lesbianism crazy, but then i became a socialist fem, seen how sexists are in the most “progressive” communalist philosophies and realized: the freaking rad fems just might be right!

        Now if only they had a way to undo all my heteronormativity conditioning, so I could find a relationship in which there is a chance of being treated like a real human being, that might be nice! (Or better yet, figure out a way to cull the coupling urge all together until most people are worth coupling with…)

      • anon male Says:

        http://www.criticalmediaproject.org/cml/media/tag/femininity/

        topics about females/women at critical media project are all sorted into “femininity.”

        Gender and social roles enforcement is the only way to critique gender and social roles enforcement.

        Thus their other tags are masculinity, trans, and POST-feminist.

      • Anto Says:

        Do you know personally all of them? How is it possible to ignore how many “normal” trans are there, just to make a point. Also not even all of us cis males are aggressive,🙂.

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      Interesting that this excellent article about cultural appropriation was on that site, also, yet the most victimized and denigrated humans of all are the women.

      And no one says anything about how mtt appropriate our entire gender identification.


      • They equate calling out a white man on his rage as the same as dismissing an “angry black woman”.

        They distort and pervert everything. Their reflection of womanhood is like one of those fun mirrors at a carnival. It’s very disturbing.

      • mayimoktoo Says:

        Radical Grandma,
        After the Elliot Rodgers murders someone tried to float the idea of putting violence against women under hate crimes. The law makers said that it couldn’t be done because the scope would be too broad and would use too many resources.

    • talbotfish Says:

      “Everyday Feminism”‘ is a shameless anti-feminist website that pumps out almost exclusively gaslighting misogynist articles about women’s “duties” to serve men who call themselves women.


  3. *trans M2t commit violent crimes at same rate as other bio males. Classic example of male violence response. How many women grab a man by the collar in public. Glad this is documented. What a violent turd, must suck to be him.

  4. GallusMag Says:

    I wonder if this legally female “transwoman” threatens to hospitalize folks who call him “Sir”or point out that he is male:
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/this-transgender-woman-has-a-full-beard-and-she-couldnt-be-h#.igkAVdEBv

    • ImNoCissie Says:

      Alex said: “I’m widening the bandwidth of how to be a woman.”

      Just goes to show how much of MTT trans-ness is about telling women they are doing it wrong and just trying to define womanhood — when there’s an entire half of the population that already exists that he ignores as he tries to define us.

      Why can’t he frame his choices as “widening the bandwidth” of being a man, by loving his beard along with adopting some of the trappings of traditional femininity?

      That would at least be honest and respectful of actual women. But, I guess it would clash with his delusion of really “being” a woman, which he evidently does labor under, from the portions of the article that I read.

      • LC Says:

        Women have had beards for thousands of years, and often subjected to derision or made part of circus acts. Man has beard, calls himself woman, is congratulated for bravery. Yes, this seems about right…

      • Radical Grandma Says:

        Yeah, that pissed me off to no end. Tired of these men trying to re-define us and tired of being enraged and getting my blood pressure up. No respect or love from me whatsoever for these poseurs.

      • grumpyuncleR Says:

        Why can’t he be like these men. They know they are men, but they want to expand mens’ fashion choices-
        http://www.skirtcafe.org/


      • “Why can’t he be like these men.”

        They hate these men. No joke! Ironically trans activists hate men in dresses. That’s why they hate drag queens.

        Not long ago – famous youtuber wore a dress and make up for fun and he got attacked by many trans people and their allies. It was crazy.

      • ImNoCissie Says:

        Yes, they definitely hate drag queens. I ran across this today, reported on National Review. Drag queens were banned from a Scotland Pride event because they might offend trans people.

        Never a worry that women might have been offended oh these last 50 years of drag becoming mainstream. Not that I am, myself, offended by drag queens, I’m not, but has anyone at a pride event ever worried about women’s feelings about drag acts?

        Anyway, first the even planners had all drag acts banned, then they were allowing ONLY TRANS drag acts, then I dunno, it was confusing to read all the hoopla. I won’t link to the conservative news site, but I’ll link to the Facebook page for the pride organization where they discussed this:

        So bizarre that one has to go to conservative sites read about these issues.

        And yes, too bad the bearded man above won’t just be himself, a man, in whatever clothing and accouterments he likes to wear/use.

        Too bad redefining a group he doesn’t belong to and impinging on our privacy and our rights is really what people like him are all about.

      • Oak and ASh Says:

        I saw the news about Free Pride banning drag acts along with an earlier piece on a motion by the National Union of Students in the UK to ban cross-dressing:
        (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/03/28/nus-conference-condemns-drag-and-tells-gay-men-to-stop-acting-like-black-women/)

        ‘Motion 406, submitted by students from Birkbeck Students’ Union, calls for a “zero tolerance” approach to drag and cross-dressing at all student union events.

        It claims in part: “Transphobic fancy dress should be met with the same disdain with which we meet other prejudiced or appropriative costumes.’

        . . .

        “Conference resolves amend the NUS Zero Tolerance Statement policy to cover all NUS events and conferences; and to encourage Unions to ban clubs and societies from holding events which permit or encourage (cisgender) members to use ‘cross-dressing’ as a mode of fancy dress.”

        A footnote to the motion clarifies that drag “as an expression or exploration of queer identity is to be encouraged”, and claims this can be “easily distinguished” from other forms – but does not detail how exactly this is compatible with a “zero tolerance” ban.’

        This is exactly what GM and commenters have been saying about transactivists wanting to enforce conservative notions of gender. And notice that bit about drag being transphobic and appropriative. Funny how no one cared when it was merely misogynistic appropriation.

        And, of course, the men who call themselves transwomen want to ban cross-dressing, since so many of them have no hope of being mistaken for women without relying on hair, makeup and wardrobe choices generally coded as feminine.

        So what’s next–the wardrobe police restrict pink to women and blue to men and accuse those who won’t play of a hate crime? Restore the old laws that made it illegal to dress in the clothing of the other sex in public? Perhaps they want the law to enforce dressing to match one’s self-identified gender.

        Still contemplating that retreat to a remote mountain top . . .

      • Meg Says:

        Do not assume anyone’s gender identity or sexuality

        They stop JUST short of saying “do not assume consent to sex.”

      • hearthrising Says:

        i went to the facebook site and it now says drag performers of all gender identities, not just trans, can perform. guess they got some pushback from deciding only trans drag performances allowed. rather ambivalent about drag myself, but I can see how targeting drag performers who id as men could swell the ranks of trans women and/or pressure gay men to be more stereotypically masculine.

    • nonny Says:

      Omfg I cannot STAND that shit. *I* am a woman, an actual female, who has to shave every single day. This man does NOT share my experience at. all. He’s a bearded man in a dress and everyone recognizes him as such.

      The bit that really disgusts me is that he says he brings out the inner lesbian in many women. Meaning, one assumes, that straight women who are attracted to him are……what, discovering their previously suppressed lesbian desires????? Lol. I knew these dudes were delusional, but my God.

      • conn suits Says:

        If the stuff this guy says in the interview was satire it would be brilliant! But as it is he just looks like some hippie guy from 1974. Longhair, beard, dress-like coat and a whole lotta rings. Because men never wear lots of rings (*cough*Beatles)

        And this basic confusion we keep hearing from trans people. They really don’t seem to understand that “defying gender” means ignoring sex roles. Dressing however you want. And it has meant that and people have known that since the 70s. It doesn’t mean turning yourself into a stereotypical porn woman bombshell, and it doesn’t mean putting on a couple bits of women’s clothes with your big beardo face. Long hair and a little bit of make up was a gay look in the 80s. Like at the cabaret in the movie The Crying Game. And they did not in any sense think they were women. This guys appearance used to be called partial drag, then it was called “genderfucking”, now he’s calling it “transitioning”. What is he transitioning to and from if he’s inventing something new? It says in the interview before 2010 you couldn’t claim to be transit/transsexual (in UK) without a medical certificate saying you had actually had a sex change operation. We need to go back to that standard. Changing it was absurd and unscientific. If you still have your testes, that produce testosterone, there is no justification for you asking society to see you as anything other than a man.

        One possible explanation for the ludicrous claim that they “are” women, that if you believe it about yourself it then is objectively true, is that this is merely the cover story used by autogynephiles to deceive the public about what they really are and really are doing. Something that is all about personal sexual gratification. Of a perverted sort. But even if it wasn’t perverse, making us all be bit players in their sex fantasy is thoroughly reprehensible. The dishonesty alone. Some other commentor on this thread quoted Dave Chapelle on Jenner, I’ll repeat that: “To what extent must I participate in your self image?”

      • morag99 Says:

        “The bit that really disgusts me is that he says he brings out the inner lesbian in many women. Meaning, one assumes, that straight women who are attracted to him are……what, discovering their previously suppressed lesbian desires????? Lol. I knew these dudes were delusional, but my God.”

        Yes: my God. It’s like a headline from a tabloid rag:

        “Bearded man wears dangly earrings and eyeliner, straight women spontaneously undergo lesbian metamorphosis”

        This guy tells us his underdog story of woe, but his self-esteem is entirely too high. As conn suits says, he’s doing absolutely nothing new, but he’s so enamoured with his own fashion choices, and with his own bejewelled and non-conforming self, that he actually believes he’s breaking ground that was broken long ago.

        So, on one level, we can laugh at what a deluded clown he is. But, yeah, he’s also revolting. Listen to how he imposes a sexual self-concept on these women (who are supposedly attracted to him) that has nothing to do with who they are, but that squares with and enhances his own definition of himself. Again, what’s new here? Nothing. Just women stripped of personhood to be used as cardboard cutouts, as two-dimensional characters, in some man’s sexual drama — The Story of Me and My Very Important Penis. Same male supremacy that’s put in action in pornography and prostitution. He’s a pig, an ordinary pig.

      • morag99 Says:

        “And they did not in any sense think they were women.”

        conn suits — I guess “big beardo face” (snort!) missed not only the 1920s – 30s, 70s and 80s, but the 90s as well:

      • keeva99 Says:

        That part made me vomit in my mouth a little.

      • keeva99 Says:

        That “inner lesbian” part made me vomit in my mouth a little.

    • MaryMacha Says:

      This dick “identifies” as a lesbian.


  5. “What is truth?” ~ Pontius Pilate

  6. Jessie Says:

    People with Klinefelter’s syndrome are actually considered male. They have male gonads (testicles) and a penis, which are typically smaller than usual. The female characteristic they have is typically enlargement of breast tissue; however, they lack a vagina, ovaries, or uterus.

    Zoey Tur is genetically and biologically male, a fact he clearly cannot handle.

    • GallusMag Says:

      It was a bizarre argument for Tur to make.

    • Oak and Ash Says:

      Every time I hear a version of the claim that the existence of intersex conditions negates the reality of male and female and thus justifies transness, I find myself astonished that anyone would accept such an absurd argument. it’s like saying the existence of dusk and dawn means there’s no real difference between day and night. Also, without two sexes, “intersex” has no meaning–and neither does trans!

      So many of these transwomen remind me of the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland shouting “Off with their heads!” at the merest hint of disagreement.

      • KgSch Says:

        It is bizarre, but it just goes to show that the trans cult is full of appropriating assholes who will claim anything to have their flimsy fantasy taken seriously. They can claim to be women and especially lesbians because we aren’t considered human, and they can claim to be intersex because intersex people are another marginalized group of people (they often experience medical abuse) who make up a tiny percentage of the population. Most people don’t know what intersex actually means unless they’ve studied human genetics or know someone who has that condition. It doesn’t help that all the “queer” groups have decided that it is actually one of those special gender identities and not a series of medical conditions so that their trans members can feel more legitimate.

        (If you aren’t familiar with the special pronouns, have fun:
        http://www.pronouns.failedslacker.com/

        By the way, is this man the same helicopter pilot who alienated his daughter because of his creepy misogyny? The one who was talking about how he may not be able to fly the helicopter anymore because he brain was becoming “more female”. Yeah dude, if you can reproduce you aren’t intersex. Most intersex people are infertile.

        I’m not a fan of conservatives either, but at least in this case they aren’t censoring the video.

      • Zemskull Says:

        This has been one confusing year.The Blue Angels appointed their first female pilot, yet “Zoey” claims his ladybrain precludes him from flying.

      • Bea Says:

        Why was Zoey able to fly his damn helicopter before he transitioned? I thought he was always female and changing his body to match his mind?

    • DaveSquirrel Says:

      It certainly did not slip my attention that Tur’s go-to was intersex conditions as justification for twanzness.

    • CisWomanPrivilege Says:

      It really made me laugh how Bob tried to use that as point of “defense”. More so how then he tells Shapiro “you’re not educated in genetics”. Neither you are sir!
      Klinefelter syndrome is purely and merely chromosomic. They are 47XXY, not 46XY like you, Mr. Tur.
      They are not sexually functional to even father children like you did!

      It boggles my mind how these dudes ALWAYS use the intersex conditions in an attempt to back their trans-thing-fetishism. Even worse when they try to use males who were born with AIS as “factual evidence” of why, even if they are 46XY males, they can be “women” as well… (yeah, because they developed like females through puberty without the need of a lifetime dosage of birth control pills and estrogen designed for menopausal women, because they weren’t born with a completely functional penis either).

      Yes, intersex people exist, but they do have completely different sets of chromosones -XXY, XXXY- or suffer from genetic anomalies that can be proven. Unlike all these middle-aged-Alan-Brainees who can’t do nothing but wish nobody ever runs a genetic test on them to shut their mouths once and for all.

      • fatima Says:

        Even worse when they try to use males who were born with AIS as “factual evidence” of why, even if they are 46XY males, they can be “women” as well… (yeah, because they developed like females through puberty without the need of a lifetime dosage of birth control pills and estrogen designed for menopausal women, because they weren’t born with a completely functional penis either).

        I consider ‘males’ with AIS women, because they were dfab and usually don’t have gender identity issues. They’ve been treated like females their whole lives so they know what it’s like to ‘be’ one (albeit minus the various biological pleasantries that come with puberty).

        I saw an AIS support site that complained about trans’ co-option of their condition.

        It says genderists included intersex people under the trans umbrella without asking them and then ‘actively interfered’ with intersex activism around infant genital surgery.

        Genderists actively interfere with activism on many fronts, really. Their aggressive co-option of civil rights movements is probably a key to their success.

      • Bea Says:

        Let’s put Zoey Tur head-to-head with a geneticist. They say “you’re not educated in genetics,” but when has a geneticist ever said that transwomen are female?

  7. anon male Says:

    Salon covered this in glowing terms. They didn’t seem bothered by highlighting the exchange (their audience knows what’s VILE!) or by the gender dynamics of Shapiro being labeled not a man but a “little man” or a “boy” since cis people don’t have to be respected or anything.

    The genderists in their comments section followed suit, not only throwing righteous indignation on the [quickly deleted] transphobic posts, but

    ——

    bigguns
    I’m guessing Shapiro doesn’t have a bone in his body, that his infrastructure is merely cartilage.

    VictoryRider2005
    Most girls could kick Shapiro’s ass.

    Tarpy
    @VictoryRider2005 My six year old son is more of a man than this creature ever will be.

    ——

    more proof that the gender spectrum rhetoric is all about supporting patriarchy and male violence

    • Biscuit Says:

      On twitter, people are now suggesting that Shapiro be ‘curb-stomped’ and Tur is agreeing with them.

      What a deranged asshole.

      • Mochi Says:

        They are disgusting, violent, horrible men. These trans-ladies are the most male-like of men, I just don’t understand how these MALES can think that they are ANYTHING like actual women.
        They are obsessed with domination, they just love throwing their weight around. Transfacists will silence any one who disagrees with them.

        My skin is still crawling. I’ve had MtFs put their hands on me like that before… more than once. It’s sooooo creepy, uuugh. Those big, heavy, clammy paws with the impeccably manicured nails, palming the nape of your neck while this huge dude with fake boobs in drag towers over you. NOT WANT! Where do they learn that this is acceptable behavior? If I was sitting in that poor guy’s seat, I would have flipped right out.

        And they wonder why they aren’t more popular.

      • anon male Says:

        And the whole white people advocating violence, from the “pink handgun” coalition stepping in at Salon now to the more standard locker room bullies who have gone banjo-eyed at their chance to be on the right side of history, are such an intersectional fail given their complete disregard for respectability politics.

      • southwest88 Says:

        Curb-stomped? They are advocating killing a man, a Jewish man, for having an opinion? Is anybody from his religions many social groups going to respond to this?

        And the set-up! Drew and 6 people set up ahead of time as five against one. And all of those five trying to make the threats of that deranged knuckle-dragging man seem justified while Drew did nothing?!?!

        I know many feminists are anti-gun but I am not one of them. This violent thug Tur could be around my area someday and I would have no chance against him unarmed if he decided to attack somebody. Guess I will look into the products made to carry a gun concealed in purse or under clothing. I never wanted to use my CC permit unless I was traveling alone long distances but these vicious entitled men and their sometimes equally vicious handmaidens are getting a little too threatening.

        Slight off-topic: just saw the story of the guy who made vague threat against Texas Governor. I can’t stand the Gov or his views on gay marriage but you don’t tell somebody to “go to hell” in an airport and then say “I’ll see you on the plane” and then have the bloody nerve to be surprised when the officials refuse to let you board that plane!

      • KgSch Says:

        @southwest88

        Yes, the way to be “progressive” these days is to behave just like a fascist and threaten to kill people. Really, conservatives and liberals are two sides of the same coin when it comes to denying reality these days.

        I don’t see a problem with women owning guns. Men are the ones doing most of the mass shootings after all.

        I was thinking of getting a gun for similar reasons. I never had a religious fundie threaten to rape and kill me for saying creationism was forcing religious beliefs on everyone, but I have gotten plenty of threats for just being a lesbian and then more threats for calling the first set of threats the lesbian-hatred that it was.

        Sometimes I take long car trips too, so a gun might be a good idea in that event due to road rage incidents. I also don’t trust my shifty neighbors or my shifty apartment managers.

        I don’t actually know how to use a gun though, so I would learn how to first so I don’t accidentally shot myself or something stupid like that.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        Check into your state laws. Thirty states now have open carry laws and the ones that don’t may have no requirement for concealed weapon permits. Just be sure to learn how to handle anything you buy and be aware, as someone once told me, that if you point a gun at someone you must be prepared to shoot. I lived in rough neighborhoods in NYC and never feared for my safety, but I now have a neighbor in my rural area who is crazy — I keep expecting to see him in a dress declaring he’s a woman, that’s how crazy he is — and I’ve seriously thought about arming myself.

        Be safe, everyone!

      • southwest88 Says:

        Replying to KgSch and hopefully not derailing: owning a gun is a hard choice to make. If you have kids of any age that live or visit, they will find the gun unless it is locked up in a good safe. I used to lock the gun in one place and bullets in another when kids visited. And even though I own and shoot, I know that the chances of a gun helping in an emergency are so slim that it makes the dangers of carrying often not worth it.
        The best course is always to try to avoid bad situations if possible and try to get away from those that can’t be avoided. A deranged man like Tur throwing a violent fit in a women’s room would be a nightmare. Enclosed space, usually only one door/exit and lots of hard surfaces. From now on, I guess I will try to scope out who is in the room and not enter if there is a man. Get out as quick if a man comes in and warn other women not to go in. Hope to deities I don’t believe in that it never comes to having to defend myself or others.
        Damn! Why can’t these men do their own creepy things without involving us!?

      • KgSch Says:

        @southwest88

        Thanks for the advice. I will probably consider at least learning gun safety and think about a firearm. I don’t have children and I am not around other people’s children very often. I am moving in with my friend though and I would want to make sure that a gun would be something she’s okay with before getting one.

    • anon male Says:

      Armed and Liberal
      @Signe_S True. And “Low-T” Shapiro is probably a CCL holder due to his pants pissing fearful worldview, so it might not end well for Tur.

      Richard Metzger
      It’s the fault of CNN for offering airtime to dead Andrew Breitbart’s derpy “low T” sidekick. Shapiro was a virgin on his wedding night, what makes him an expert on gender?

      Armed and Liberal
      @Richard Metzger And if Low-T was a virgin on his wedding night, how does he know that he and the mrs. have the right equipment? So he’s the last person that should be opining about others junque.

      Nelda77
      @Yossarian You know what? Progressives usually DO take the high road but there is no need for us to always do so in the face of ignorant hate. The little weasel was completely disrespectful to a fellow human being… and somehow you expect more grace under fire from the person being demeaned? Why not instead demand that the ignorant man learn some basic human kindness and courtesy? In what world (aside from your own) is Tur supposed to be the one who both takes the hate with dignity AND with a sense of humor?

      My thought when I read this: Good for Tur for pushing back so hard against a nasty little insect of a man! If I, as a middle-aged white woman, was spoken to by this little twerp in the same way, I most certainly would threaten bodily harm… even though I’m 5’2″, have been a woman my whole life (as, arguably, Tur has been) and not all that powerful.

      JustSlider
      Is it wrong of me to have wished that Zoey Tur had, in fact, beat the crap out of Shapiro? The ultimate humiliation?

      Jim Groom
      Just another man-child getting some facetime on the tube. Surprising, not a bit.

      Lawrence of America
      @Tony Locke i hear what your saying , and i still would like to see shapiro slapped around like a little b$tch

      • mayimoktoo Says:

        Anon Male (who is somehow also a middle aged woman),

        “i still would like to see shapiro slapped around like a little b$tch”

        Really? for having an opinion? Does anyone who shares that opinion also deserved to be “slapped around like a little b$tch” or would you rather they just be threatened with bodily harm? Perhaps we need new guidelines for debates. Boxing gloves for everyone or just a nice cage match? What does civility matter if it keeps someone from hearing words they don’t like?

        By the way, it’s “bitch” If you’re going to be tossing around anti-woman slurs, spell it out. Nobody thinks you’re more dainty because you pretend not to cuss while fantasizing about violence.

      • GallusMag Says:

        @mayimoktoo- anon male is a long time contributor to GenderTrender. His post is a cut and paste of comments left by idiots on the linked article. I do not know why you are having such a hard time parsing anon male’s comments, but perhaps you can make a note of it before again “shooting the messenger” of the information he is posting. Thank you.

        @anon male- make sure you are providing enough context in your comments so that newish or casual readers can immediately understand them. Thank you.

      • conn suits Says:

        Thank you anon male for this disturbing smorgasbord. The “low T” stuff blows me away. Kind of exposes the hyper gender conservativism of the whole trans thing! And right away they’re mad at Shapiro so they go after his body. Singsong voice: “Oh your body is like small and you’re a man so you’re not a real man and we should beat you up.” These people have no sense of irony. Not just the fact that Tur would make such a crazy tacky threat, which most men would not, but that he could clearly carry it through! Talk about making Shapiro’s point for him!

        In the 80s there was a band called the Violent Femmes. Wonder what made me think of that? 😉

        And all the assheaded biology talk. Shapiro was talking about chromosomes not genitals. Plus and this still absolutely kills me, these “transwomen” don’t have genital surgery. They make themselves into human-made hermaphrodites. And we’re all supposed to pretend that we don’t know that. Some trans politico is quoted in a Jenner article saying in effect “oh no it’s not required to have genital surgery to be transgender”. Like it’s some kind of board game.

        As someone on this website said “their explanation of transgender is full of internal contradictions.”

      • Fruitopia Says:

        Disgusting that they are mocking Shapiro’s height and sex life. Progressive my arse.

      • Oak and Ash Says:

        “”The little weasel was completely disrespectful to a fellow human being… and somehow you expect more grace under fire from the person being demeaned? Why not instead demand that the ignorant man learn some basic human kindness and courtesy? In what world (aside from your own) is Tur supposed to be the one who both takes the hate with dignity AND with a sense of humor?”

        Maybe in the sort of world where most women are expected to tolerate being demeaned by men in public? Somehow I don’t think the people defending Tur would applaud women for fighting back against routine disrespect in a similar way.

        And then there’s all the disrespect people of color have to put up with in order to minimize their mistreatment at the hands of the legal authorities. That sort of world.

      • morag99 Says:

        “Disgusting that they are mocking Shapiro’s height and sex life. Progressive my arse.”

        Yeah, that’s so interesting, isn’t it? That these liberal, supposedly tolerant progressives are mocking what is, in their view, Shapiro’s gender non-conformity. They’re saying that he — this short little wimpy insect excuse-for-a-man — is not qualified to speak on matters of sex/gender since he delayed taking sexual possession of his woman until he was married to her. What kind of man doesn’t screw a woman the very first chance he gets? Why, a man who deserves to be slapped around like a little bitch (i.e., like a woman).

        So gender is, after all, about men fucking women and asserting their dominance! Gee, who woulda thought?

      • Zemskull Says:

        The size-based insults directed at Shapiro are not that different from insulting an African-American’s hair. A smaller-than-average body type tends to be a more common trait with Jewish Americans than with non-Jewish Americans. It’s a point of sensitivity for a lot of them.

      • anon male Says:

        Salon has a mocking followup about Shapiro attempting to press charges.

        Most of the comments revolve around “fighting words” and conflating misgendering of trans identified males with racist invective against men of color as a legitimate excuse for violence: as long as you believe yourself to be punching up, let the fists fly.

        ——-

        “If men followed societal rules, we’d be talking about something else. Ben doesn’t address African American males as “boy” for obvious reasons. He’d be lucky to get off with the warning. Addressing Tur as Sir is no less deliberately insulting.”

        ——-

        One poster tries to ask what would happen if normal cis woman did this in bars all the time and it was turned around

        ——–

        “If you whispered Miss to “the man in the bar”, you’d be lucky to get off with a warning.”

        ——-

        Which seems to normalize male violence as inevitable, even though liberals tend to not afford regular guys trans-panic/gay-panic defenses when their so-called identities are threatened by outside influences trying to reframe them as something else.

        The homophobic, sex-shaming, insults continue to fly with no specter of Jezebel or the regular PC Police showing up to say it’s out of bounds:

        ——-

        Andy12
        “Ben Shapiro looks gay. And he looks like he is closeted and maintains his cover with his homophobic stunts and insults.”

        GTWilson
        Tur should have just kicked Shapiro’s ass. Sensationalist right-wingers who play victims of violence might learn the definition of the word.

        Bitter Scribe
        GOD what a twerp!

        bigguns
        Shapiro makes Jello look hard.

        lawrence arabia
        She was right: Shapiro is nothing more than a little boy…and a coward one at that…

        ——–

      • Charlotte Says:

        Funny how Shapiro can be mocked for owning his manhood yet not aspiring to be a muscle head, yet we are to believe zoey the hulk with behemoth hands and strong chiseled jaw is a woman because he puts on a skirt…

        Trans folk and their minions want to substitute willful obediance to gender roles as actual sex, fuck that conservative noise. They top even bat shit creationists, in complete ignorance of biology. Even a fundamentalist Amish whom never read a text book in their life knows damn well a female is born with a vagina…

      • conn suits Says:

        Beautifully put Charlotte. “Musclehead” LOL.

        I like the idea of “TransMinions” 😁

        Gallus, is there no way to post pictures in the comments?

      • GallusMag Says:

        Cut and paste the image URL ending in “.jpeg” into your comment and the image will post.

    • jummy Says:

      Actually, (and again, speaking as a right-leaning moderate) the fact that only Salon, RawStory and Wonkette have covered the story demonstrates the center-left’s recognition of the harmful potential of the clip and their efforts to prevent it from going viral. Salon, RawStory and Wonkette are only anti-‘RWNJ’ hate-hoses whose writers spend vastly more time on conservative blogs harvesting oppo memes than they spend on strengthening their own views.

      The rest of the center-left media-sphere is assiduously starving the clip of oxygen. Both because of the harm it does to their narrative of late-presenting MtFs as a victim class, as well as the ‘bad example’ presented by Shapiro’s lethally cool and rational comportment while simply pointing out the obvious.

      You may not care to recognize this, but it’s also harmful to the center-left’s messaging that the clip shows a despised ‘RWNJ’ as a victim, rather than a victimizer. I guarantee that the video would be all over MSNBC if Shapiro had so much as reached up to brush Tur’s hand from his neck with Tur’s threat omitted. Add on an additional six weeks of coverage had Shapiro come out quoting Leviticus or something.

  8. lestoille Says:

    wow. this is great. in the sense that this prick showed the world in one gesture that trannys are men. ordinary, threatening, aggressive men. thanks bob, for doing some of the heavy lifting for us xox

    props to shapiro for keeping his cool and calmly pointing out that it was inappropriate behavior. it must have legit scary to have a beefy dude grab and threaten him for speaking a scientific fact. interesting how religious types like this orthodox jew are the ones defending science while the so-called progressives have become the new deniers

    • GallusMag Says:

      “interesting how religious types like this orthodox jew are the ones defending science while the so-called progressives have become the new deniers”

      SURREAL!

      • morag99 Says:

        Yes, it’s bizarre how the script has flipped. But we’ve being saying for a long time that transgenderism is religion, not science. And as far as religions go, it’s not a peaceful one, tolerant one; it’s convert — or else!

        Or else go home in an ambulance, apparently. Oh, sure, they call it simply calling for “respect.” But in the same way mobsters in the movies demand “respect” — with a hand on the other guy’s neck.

    • Pearl Says:

      It’s amazing watching this circus play out. It’s amazing how the same progressives that will criticize conservatives and the religious right about how absurd it is for them to ignore science and push creationism and other Christian beliefs onto others, don’t see how hypocritical it is to ignore scientific fact in order to push this pro-trans agenda. “A penis isn’t male!” “Trans-women are actual women!” “Trans-women are just interesex.” “Talking about chromosomes and biology is transphobic!” *sigh*

      • KgSch Says:

        I know right. It is hilarious. Just goes to show that liberals will be anti-science if it means changing the definition of woman to include men. You can’t trust male leftists either.

        I did spend a brief period of time arguing with creationists when I was a teenager, and they never threatened me with violence. I did start to get passive-aggressive comments about praying for my soul, and one time a few comments about how I was “ignorant about the lord”, but never rape and death threats.

      • LC Says:

        I used to be a casual defender of Christian theology on a blog(though I was never pro-creationism or anything of the sort) and I got into plenty of passionate and occasionally rude/insulting arguments with atheists- not a one of them ever made rape or death threats, or made me feel unsafe on a personal level.

        But I mentioned feminism and transgenderism once, and within two weeks I ended up blocking a huge number of people that had responded, and refused to ever discuss the subject again(which is how I eventually ended up at gendertrender). And it was purely out of fear, despite the fact that I have never threatened anyone or called them things they asked not to be called- all I wanted was that they not call me cis in return.

        It’s just incredible(and terrifying) to me that of all the arguments I’ve ever had with people, political or religious, -this one- is so very leftist, and so very openly and proudly advocates violence against dissenters. I’m stunned at the commentators taking Tur’s side in that display. I don’t even know what I would have done in that situation… watching it was scary enough.

      • Akira Says:

        I just found the most transphobic thing ever! /sarcasm

        The Genographic Project being carried out by National Geographic has this line in it’s faq section (link if you want to read it):

        https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/faq/participation-testing-results/#paternal-or-maternal

        “The Geno 2.0 test will run a comprehensive analysis to identify thousands of genetic markers on your mitochondrial DNA, which is passed down each generation from mother to child, to reveal your direct maternal deep ancestry, and more than 12,000 markers on the Y chromosome (male participants only since women do not carry a Y chromosome), which is passed down from father to son, to reveal your direct paternal deep ancestry. ”

        And then there’s this doozy:

        “If you are female, your paternal ancestry is reflected in the half of your autosomes or regional percentages that you received from your father. Since you don’t have a Y-chromosome, you’ll need to ask a male first-degree relative (such as your brother or your father) to test as well to learn about your paternal ancestry.”

        Can you imagine that transactivists trying to take on National Geographic with their pseudo-science? It would be hilarious! Or it would be incredibly sad. I guess it depends on what the outcome is…


  9. it’s already on youtube.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Thank you Lilly! xox

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      The narcissism of these trans freaks also shows they can’t overcome their violent male traits.

      Let Tur try to pull that shit with a real woman. I’d have his ass arrested so quickly he wouldn’t know what happened.

      Keep your filthy hands off other people, you delusional ass.

      • Zemskull Says:

        Tur is more violent than the average man, especially one of his advanced age. You can channel-flip on your radio or TV all night and the hosts are able to debate without threats. CNN, MSNBC, Bill Maher…even Howard Stern manages to keep himself in check five hours a day.

  10. Susan Nunes Says:

    “Stick with the brain scans”? LOL! Transgenderism is nothing but a woman-hating political movement dressed up with quack medicine and quack science. Tur is still a guy, and, like Bruce Jenner, doesn’t even hide he is a butchered-up cross-dresser.

    • Mortadella Says:

      Yeah, let him have his precious brain scans.
      Professor Dorothy Bishop of Oxford U wanted to show that
      neuroscience doesn’t always hold up to serious scrutiny. In 2012, she did this study called, “The Seductive Allure of Neuroscience.” Basically she gathered up some participants and gave them a strong and weak explanation for a psychological phenomena. The weak explanation, however, was prefaced with the phrase, “Brain scans indicate…”
      Most people chose the weak explanation, anything that sounded
      neurosciency made people’s critical thinking skills fly out the window.

      She went further, and placed a dead salmon in a brain scanner and asked it to rate pictures of emotions. Areas of the dead fish’s brain lit up on the scans.

      Bishop also studied how the media and research scientists seem to have an unfounded fascination in brain scans, despite the obvious junk-science aspect of it all.

      • Radical Grandma Says:

        Mtt are just desexed males. “Thinking” you’re a woman doesn’t change the chromosomes at all.

      • conn suits Says:

        Mortadella, thank you! The brain scan razzmatazz. But somebody else to the dead fish one. The point of which was the computer program in fMRI machines “cleans up” the data to the point of actually inventing stuff out of whole cloth. The dead fish showed brain activity. LOL!

        The point being, for folks who never heard this stuff before is that actual scientists are doing actual studies to show that the kind of brain scan studies that the trans people invoke have horrible problems with them. And that’s when they’re being used to show how people respond to say pictures of the emotion. The idea that this ineffective technology and methodology can prove something as convoluted as the gender-in-the-head nuttiness is laughable. Oh yeah, and if Pinsky is an M.D. shouldn’t he know this? But then he is the Keeper of TUR! You Will Kneel Before TUR!

    • jummy Says:

      FMRI imaging has enabled more pseudoscience than actual scientific discovery. It’s like we’ve entered a rennaisance of the mid-1800’s when every jerk with a spare room and a bunsen burner could fashion himself as a scientist. Phrenology is phrenology whether its done with a bone saw and callipers or with an fMRI machine.

  11. Susan Nunes Says:

    I am not sure who is worse, the deranged trans Tur or the morons on the panel who somehow have Ph.D.s and call themselves women enable this sexist filth. These women are disgraces to their sex.

  12. Mochi Says:

    Woah, he’s one scary dude. “You cut that out, or you’ll go home in an ambulance.”

    Hey ladies, look who just joined you in the locker room! Teehee!

    Transfacism: Mussolini in taffeta and heels

    • gchild Says:

      The panelists pissed me off. How fucking cowardly can they be? They know damn well that shit was wrong, they just didnt care.

      That’s typical of his panels though. They all seem like media whores. I watched the show for years up until recently. He gets the youngest, hungriest, and most gesticulating/tap dancing so called “consultants/panelists” HLN can find.

      Plus, Dr. Drew is kind of a tease because you can tell he knows better on a lot of shit, but he won’t follow through. Saying “stick to the brainscans” meant “dont be fucking ridiculous! Of course chromosomes determine biological sex”. But he won’t press or even emphasize his point if he might come off wrong to his young, hot audience.

      • CisWomanPrivilege Says:

        They probably did care, but most likely were scared that angry ex-military Bob Tur would threaten to kill them as well.

        I mean, who would not call a linebacker in a dress like Mr. Cox a “she” if he were next to you.

    • Bea Says:

      Not to nitpick, but they’re actually cis fascists since they identify with the totalitarianism they were assigned at birth.

  13. Elle Says:

    That was absolutely chilling.

    Look who just joined us in the locker room, indeed—holy shit, Mochi!

    This is righteous insanity on a level with “Draw the prophet and we will be completely justified in killing you.”

    And the other respondents chorus of “Well, you knew that you’d offend her by saying that”—WTF? Defending abuse much?

    Again: CHILLING.

    • Mochi Says:

      “And the other respondents chorus of “Well, you knew that you’d offend her by saying that”—WTF? Defending abuse much? ”

      But Elle, the handmaidens would be too afraid to make their transfriend angry! Zoey smash!

      Seriously, this twisted freak shouldn’t be allowed any where near women. Certainly not alone. Certainly NOT in the changing room.

      • born free & female Says:

        ‘And the other respondents chorus of “Well, you knew that you’d offend her by saying that”’

        It’s like they almost get it. They don’t realize how close they are to saying “Well, you upset the burly, deluded, mentally ill narcissist – what did you expect?”

  14. grumpyuncleR Says:

    The panelists don’t object to the threats, they just blame the person who received the threats. They need to be called out on that.

    • Dogtowner Says:

      The person who speaks the truth should know the truth is offensive.

      The person who threatens the person who speaks the truth has every right to BE offensive.

      That seemed to be the message I got from watching for a very short time. I couldn’t stomach any more crap from that beefy guy defending Turd.

  15. Radical Grandma Says:

    Tur, just go fuck yourself, you violent asshole.

    You’re no more a woman than that POS Ben Shapiro.


  16. Compared to some of the “TERF” death threats by these narcissistic men, threatening to send someone home in an ambulance is nothing. Watch the video again. Read some of the “TERF” death threats. What is going on?

    https://radfemsrespond.wordpress.com/recent-anti-feminist-hate-speech/

    http://secretlyradical.blogspot.nl/2014/08/terfweek.html

    They usually reserve their intimidation and bullying tactics for “TERFs” (any woman they can’t intimidate into obedient submission). If annoyed, I see that they could go macho toe to toe with a guy. How tall is Tur compared to the other guy? The other guy looks shorter.

    Robert Albert Tur, (aka “Helicopter Bob”, or “Chopper Bob”) acts like any other macho guy in a bar, “You cut that out now, or you’ll go home in an ambulance”. We see it time and time again, but people politely pretend that what they are seeing with their own eyes isn’t really happening. Tur’s response was a typical male behavior. Notice how he put his hand on the man’s shoulder. It’s typical male socialization. It’s right there in front of us, but people refuse to acknowledge it. It’s both amusing and frightening at the same time. For all their makeup, dresses, etc., when they feel threatened, the male socialization kicks in. We can see it time and time again.

    @Jessie

    “Zoey Tur is genetically and biologically male, a fact he clearly cannot handle.”

    He is male, and why can’t people just speak the truth? Adult females are called women. He is not a woman. The human species is sexually dimorphic and all primates reproduce sexually. No primate, human or non-human, can change its sex.

    @Jessie

    “People with Klinefelter’s syndrome are actually considered male. They have male gonads (testicles) and a penis, which are typically smaller than usual. The female characteristic they have is typically enlargement of breast tissue; however, they lack a vagina, ovaries, or uterus. ”

    It infuriates me every time they shamelessly co-opt intersex individuals. Transgender is not the same as disorders of sexual development, and every major intersex organization makes a distinction between transgender and intersex. These are rare genetic conditions that can be diagnosed with genetic testing and other medical experiments. Transgender is for all practical purposes a culturally defined term. Does the existence of rare disorders of sexual development mean that biological sex doesn’t exist? No, it doesn’t because all primates reproduce sexually. Intersex arises from sexual reproduction. It’s kind of like saying, “Because some people are born missing a leg, this means that humans aren’t bipedal”.

    Why does Tur bring up Klinfelters when he must know that he isn’t intersex? Between 95% and 99% of XXY men are infertile because they do not produce enough sperm to fertilize an egg naturally. These are actual medical conditions that often require long term treatment. Infertility is common in intersex conditions. Prior to “transitioning”, apparently the reproductive systems of Bruce Jenner (father of 6 children by 3 different women), and “Helicopter Bob”, (father of 2 children) worked just fine. These men aren’t intersex. Tur was married for 23 years. I’m sure his ex-wife knows that he is male, and there was nothing unique about his reproductive system. Seriously, one would think that the mother of his two children would know if he is intersex not. The mitochondrial DNA his children inherited came from her, and he provided half the nuclear DNA.

    It annoys me to all get out when they drag up intersex, or the lame, “I have a lady brain” nonsense.

    • Mochi Says:

      @Skylark Phillips: Awesome post! Every word of this is so true!
      That guy, Zoey Tur, “Helicopter” Bob, or whateverthefuck he calls himself now? Most guys I know would be afraid to fight him. Very afraid. Listen to him, bragging that he’s been stabbed before! but nothing takes more courage that “coming out as transgender”! What is this crazy shit!?

      This guy is some crazy macho sociopath with a paraphelia that he wants to force everyone to play along with. And of course the worst of it falls on women, to have to take men like this into their own private spaces. There can be NO female spaces, unless males are allowed to “be” females.

      Imagine : This Dude @ MichFest! Lol! This Dude right here, hanging out at Dinah Shore. Harshing the mellow a little bit? Helicopter Bob in heels in the ladies room at Macy’s, in the ladies locker room after a tough workout on the heavy bag, phew! It’s not fair that they expect not to be laughed at. Not. Fair. From a certain(sane)point of view it’s hilarious. But if you laugh, they’ll get mad. That won’t be funny. No. Sir.

      The links above have some terrifying, mentally deranged threats. Cannabalism? You eat women with hot sauce, dude? And you want girls to like you? Lez-B-friends? Until they see your fridge.

      You worthless pile of dogshit. Posing with a knife. You want to cut some woman’s throat. These little shit-piles, they are so evil. So twisted, so woman hating. And liberals are supposed to protect them, or else! Would you dare go against the trans-cult?

      Especially when it’s full with these late transitioning ex-military dudes?Huge scary men who are trained to kill with their bare hands. Women are supposed to allow them into women’s restrooms and locker rooms or else. Women’s sports teams, or else. DV Shelters, survivor groups, underpants, festivals, everything.

      Right now.

      Or else.

      I was thinking about it… how strange it is that all these men who claim to be women are SO masculine. They are often military, or ex prison guards, truckers, and so on. So manly, and so horrible too… I think that actually taking womanhood for themselves must be the ultimate conquest. Nothing is beyond their grasp if they can own womanhood. They are unbelievably narcissistic. They are actually very extremely male. That is the reason why they honestly believe that they can posses women so completely that they could become the “ideal” woman. A lesser man would never dream up something so hideous or grandiose. That takes balls.

      They are horrible liars and they know that there is no logic behind their argument. That’s part of the thrill, forcing people to eat the asinine queer theory rhetoric. They can actually force people to “agree” with them that the sky is NOT blue. They love throwing in “trans women of color” and “intersex people” hand wavery, to claim that they are the “most oppressed” and that “sexual dimorphism doesn’t exist, so they are female because they say so”. It expresses their mastery over those groups of people. They need to own. Women who can’t be owned, remind them of the truth- that they truly can never be women. That makes them insane with narcissistic rage!

      They are Fascists! True Facists have a sex fetish for power that extends into every sphere of their lives. Look at how these men behave when they are opposed!

      • conn suits Says:

        Zounds! Yes!
        Yeah, they’re huge! Huge macho men. There are all kinds of men, you can see them on the bus, who would make more convincing women then he’s guys. What proportion of the population are these huge guys? Remember that picture of Katie Couric standing between Carrera and Cox? My father was 5ft 8 and my brother was 5ft 10? I think. And don’t get me wrong they were total assholes. But I have seldom in my life been around men who were over 6 feet tall. Let alone these huge muscley guys. They are so absolutely completely weird.

        And you’re right it isn’t fair that we have to go along with their self delusion. Even if this was a real medical condition it would still be self-deluded. And I’m sympathetic to the unhappy young people who are lead into Transland. I want them to get real help. For what’s really wrong. (like Homophobic Parent–itis) So how come I’m not supposed to look at these Hulk Women and say: There is something wrong here.

      • dbrvnk Says:

        “I was thinking about it… how strange it is that all these men who claim to be women are SO masculine.”

        That’s something that bothered me when I started going to trans support groups. There were the ‘standard model’ of mtf that were slight and fem and would have a hard time passing as a normative man, who mostly sat quietly in the corners; there were the Queer Theorists with dyed hair who were all non-binary or genderfucked or something; and then there were the Trans Women™ who, despite having male pattern interests (i.e. that actively exclude women) like geek culture and engineering, and despite being bigger, taller and deeper voiced than almost every male-identifying man I’ve come across, would only accept female pronouns and call themselves ‘women’ (not wanting to be trans-anything) and complain about transmisogyny and even leave to form new groups because they felt that the existing group ‘centered masculine narratives too much’ due to being 30% ftms (i.e. actual females). Oh and they were all ‘lesbians’ who were dating each other for some reason.

        I mean I’m generalising but like… the first warning sign for me was how can these people enjoy extremely misogynistic media and pursuits (e.g. video games) without recognising them as problematic, if they claim to actually be women? Then all the other questions followed from there (why do they talk over everyone else? why are they so dismissive of GRS and sex dysphoria? why do they hate the ftms so much? etc)

      • Relieved Says:

        @Mochi great comment.

        They want to own women once and for all by becoming one of us. And it’s even even better for these male psychos than the usual stalking, sexually assaulting or killing women, because not only do they not risk prison, the law is on their side.

        It really drives home that not all trans are as safe and cuddly as activists want to portray them. Even if only a small percentage are as pushy and threatening as Tur and his ilk they shouldn’t be allowed in women’s spaces.

    • Hilda Sweck Says:

      Not to mention that men with Klinefelters have distinct facial features (large ears, long faces, tendency to be tall, some breast development), and most importantly, tend to be mentally disabled, and so may not even be ABLE to consent to sex (so they are unlikely to have kids, even if they weren’t looking at sterility issues) or have much of a discussion.

  17. jennisuzan Says:

    I am always amused when some transgender person invokes Klinefelter as a basis for transsexualism. They seem to think, quite falsely, that it gives them more credibility.

    • Biscuit Says:

      I’m an actual biologist and I think it makes them look stupid. People with Klinefelter’s syndrome are male, but in the end the existence of Klinefelter’s syndrome is irrelevant as to whether or not a person with a fully-functioning male reproductive system is male.

      If a person has a penis and testicles, he’s male. The end. Biological sex is determined by the configuration of the reproductive system, not whether or not you like to wear dresses.

      Ben Shapiro is being painted as the bad guy here, and I cannot say I’m a huge fan of his in general, but in the end, I would be comfortable with disagreeing with him face to face. I doubt he’d lose it and try to choke me right in front of a video camera. Now, Zoey Tur? He’s seems genuinely scary. I wouldn’t trust him to not hurt me if I disagreed with something he said.

  18. ChordsLikeThis Says:

    Amazing (but not surprising) how they *immediately* turn it around and cast Shapiro as the aggressive one. Literal threats vs being “kind of rude”, as one panelist put it, and the person supposedly being rude is the one who’s aggressive. Yeah, right.
    If mental gymnastics were a sport, these genderists would all get gold medals. They sure do work hard at it.
    The violence displayed by these men against those who simply know reality is so scary. When I see a 6’4″ hulking trans male in the women’s washroom, all that’s going through my head is “What if he notices me noticing him and then decides that the act of noticing his maleness is an act of aggression, and that he should beat me up for it?” Women aren’t being paranoid about this, it’s a very real threat.
    I don’t understand how people can’t see that the trans movement is entirely about using threats and violence to police people’s perceptions and reality.


    • Tur was provoked! Reminds me of when cops used to blame wives for provoking their husbands to hit them.

      “Don’t make me kick your ass” is a classic abusive line

    • fatima Says:

      When I see a 6’4″ hulking trans male in the women’s washroom, all that’s going through my head is “What if he notices me noticing him and then decides that the act of noticing his maleness is an act of aggression, and that he should beat me up for it?”

      This. These men are dangerous because they overreact to even innocent misgendering, and as we’ve seen on this blog, they can get violent about it!

      If a woman were to defend herself physically against a violent transwoman in a woman’s restroom or locker room, would she be charged with a hate crime? I think people would support the transwoman and use the incident as ‘proof’ that women are a physical threat to transwomen.

  19. Lyoid Says:

    Applause to GallusMag for this Best link post.

    There are many older TG and TS living in US. Some become Granny TG and Granny TS. Most do not have money for FFS except a very countable few. They all beautiful ,Brave and full of courage to walk on their Gender Road. They all have “The True Trans Spirit’ in their SOUL since they were born.. They should have got the “AWARD”.

    It is so Disgusting to see the crowd applauding to “a Make Over Tranny” who involved recklessly driving to a fatal car accident. C.Jenner is a Transgender now,but she will never have a true Tran Spirit.Cos she is a Make Over Tranny.!

    That is what most Trans-people thought!

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      STFU.

      There’s nothing beautiful or brave about you or your buddies. You are narcissistic abusers. Now go fuck off back under your rock, you POS.

      • coelacanth Says:

        “True Trans Spirit”! It sounds like a Ronald Reagan era PR spin: It’s not a weapon of mass destruction; it’s a Peace Shield”! It’s not a fascist load of bullshit and violence, it’s True Trans Spirit.

        Earth to Martians: HELP!

    • Bea Says:

      No one should get a fucking award for hating their bodies and appropriating the reproductive category “female.” A man cannot be a “granny.” Grandmothers do not get erections putting on their female relatives’ underwear.

      • Mortadella Says:

        “True Trans Spirit?” What’s that? A fake feminine hygiene product for delusional people?

  20. gchild Says:

    Ben Shapiro took the nonviolent route. He did not get up and punch Zoey for threatening him. He did not get into a shoving match. And he is being called a coward.

    Yeah, like Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi…

    Part of the nonviolent strategy is to show the inherent perversity of a substantial, seemingly immovable social structure which causes harm. Hense why both men above, and many others, died during the struggle.

    Because gender is social, not biological, transgenderists must enforce it. They will continue to respond to dissent with verbal/physical violence and threats and the world will have to face the fact that somewhere, we have taken a wrong turn with this…won’t they?

    • Akira Says:

      I’m a huge fan of MLK and Gandhi, as well as Morihei Ueshiba (founder of the martial art of Aikido, which is based on the philosophy of love and nonviolence), and I strive to walk each day with a non-hateful, non-violent, loving spirit. I, too, believe that as long as you don’t respond to transactivists with violence, their own actions will speak for themselves.

      Just keep spouting real science and they will show the world their true colors on their own. Trans people can’t accuse “terfs” and those of us who agree with their notions of gender of being responsible for murder and genocide if their own abusive actions outweigh everyone else’s.

      If you want encouragement, just think of it this way: the Norwegians repelled the Nazis through nonviolence. It works.

  21. hearthrising Says:

    threatening violence against someone for disagreeing with you. is that what it means to be a liberal anymore?


  22. “Shapiro reports on Twitter that Tur continued the threats off camera, stating he would “see [Shapiro] in the parking lot”. The panelist had to be escorted off the lot by security for his own protection. Tur has not yet been charged.”

    I don’t know Shapiro, and I don’t follow conservative leaning news sources.

    Scary stuff, but it doesn’t surprise me. I’m terrified that one of these men could go off on someone. Telling entitled, narcissistic men that the world doesn’t revolve around them is too much for some of them to handle. I pray that one doesn’t go off on a woman. Women need to understand that men have always had problems with boundaries, and these men who have been pampered by naïve people for way too long will just keep pushing. They will keep violating the boundaries of women as long as they can get by with it. The more women remain silent, the more crazy the trans train gets.

    Tur, helicopter pilot, married to the same woman for 23 years, father or two children is biological and genetic male.

    He isn’t a woman anymore than Rachel Dolezal is black. Why is white people putting on black face offensive, but men putting on lady face is seen as progressive, even lauded. When Tur says he is a woman, it feels as if he is stealing something from me. He is taking an identity that does not belong to me. To me, and to most women, it’s insulting for males to call themselves “women” because it feels like a form of appropriation. Women have been bullied into silence by these men, or afraid of losing their jobs for saying how they really feel. Deep down in our hearts, women know Tur and Jenner aren’t woman. Let them wear whatever they want, but women exist. Women, like all oppressed groups of people have a right to define themselves. No one will ever force me to call a male a woman.

    In reality, Shapiro didn’t go far enough in explaining why Tur is biological male. Shapiro was just scratching the surface with the genetics. I’m not afraid to tell it like it is. I’ll go places and say things that people know is true, but were too afraid to say. Tur’s neovagina is nothing like my female reproductive system. My vagina is not lined with skin from the penis and scrotum, or part of the colon. A vagina is an actual organ that is connected to the rest of the female reproductive system. Tur can call himself a lady and woman all day long, but I know he will never, ever, ever in a million years experience sexual pleasure the same way a woman does. Bob, it’s not going to happen. Even with SRS, what he has and what I have isn’t the same. Even after SRS (it really doesn’t change one’s sex), the prostate is left intact. Women don’t have a prostate gland. I don’t need to get my “lady” prostate checked. His neovagina has to be dilated for life because like all wounds in the body, it will constrict and close.

    It’s an insult to the female sex to imply that womanhood is a consumer product that can be purchased by bored men. Tur’s and Jenner’s view of woman is a caricature, pornified, plastic image.

    It’s an insult to the entire female sex to say that Tur knows how women feel, or has experienced oppression the same way women have, or knows what menstrual cramps, pregnancy, giving birth, or menopause feels like. He didn’t give birth to his two children. His ex-wife of 23 years is the mother.

    Women get to define ourselves. Tur is not a woman. He can dress in whatever he fancies because I don’t care, but I will not pander to his delusions.

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      Great commentary. Thank you!

      The trans movement is a muscle-bound movement of men who will never have what we women have–our biological selves–no matter how much pseudo-science and lying they engage in.

      They are simply desexed males.

      • conn suits Says:

        Skylark Phillips and radical grandma,
        Desexed? Neovagina? I agree with everything you guys are saying except that: 75% of these men do not have genital surgery! They’re not desexed. There’s just as sexed as they were when they were teenage boys. There’s a quote on an entertainment website re: Jenner, where some trans politico says that you don’t have to have genital surgery to be transgender. 75%. It’s just transvestitism. And we are required to pretend we don’t know that.

  23. Ben X Says:

    Most disturbing thing I’ve seen all month. This Shapiro person, who apparently believes that Sesame Street is communist propaganda (run by whom – the Jews? oh wait…), outclassed the shit out dainty, girlish, sexy little Zoey. But you can sense right away that he’s stunned, actually stunned for a moment, and can’t believe what just happened. It sent chills down my spine, but imagine being there. Now why couldn’t they have had Shapiro + I dunno, Sheila Jeffreys?

    • morag99 Says:

      Yes, just imagine being there. I’m actually surprised that Shapiro was able to formulate a sentence as quickly as he did.

      What Tur did there — right there on television for the world to see — was issue a physical threat, not just against one man, but against all of us.

      And when we women say we are afraid of these men, liberals — including so-called feminists — laugh at us and mock us and call us bigots. If even other men aren’t safe to challenge trans politics in a public forum, this sends an extra-strong warning to women to keep our mouths shut and call them “she” when they tell us to.

      I mean — God, right on TV. And not a single person there came to Shapiro’s defence! They didn’t have to defend his opinion, but they had a ethical obligation to defend him against being intimidated and physically threatened. Instead, they ganged up on him, like gang members who had been given a signal from their leader.

      • coelacanth Says:

        But they don’t have an “ethical obligation to defend him” in their ideology (religion) because he is a hater, a sinner, the enemy and is therefore not human thus not worthy of human respect. THIS is the new PC left liberal SJW universe: it has become pure and literal Fascism. As someone said above, the left is now the other side of the right wing coin — identical in its totalitarianism, its violence, its madness. The old “you’re either with us or against us — you’re either part of the problem or part of the solution” is now a justification to attack, assault and eventually kill those who are not on “your side”. And Trans is a litmus test of this left wing “faith”: one word against trans is evidence that you are the infidel, the enemy who they are justified in killing to “stop the hate”. McCarthyism in a Che t-shirt, pig wig and size 13 high heeled jackboots.

      • shediogenes Says:

        Zoey Tur is well seasoned in reporting and how to behave in front of a camera. I find it hard to believe he could have thought his behavior was appropriate, so just how rage filled and out of control would he have to be to make such a revealing and public gaffe? on camera? Where it is a matter of record for all time. Hasn’t Bob been lecturing other trans about how to represent? The boiling rage lurking just below the surface of Zoey Tur has no place in my private space.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        I don’t know your experience, morag99, but my experience is that the gang-like behavior you describe (and gang is the perfect word) is how people behave in groups. I got sick of political involvement because this was how I saw people behaving, no comprehension of ETHICAL obligation whatsoever, just rushing in for the kill if that was what the group dynamic demanded. I looked for decades for a group that behaved ethically and never found one; I envy those of you who have.

      • Bea Says:

        It seemed scripted to me. Dr. Drew admitted to receiving kickbacks for promoting GlaxoSmithKline’s Wellbutrin, and it seems to me that the gender industrial complex is paving the way for as many men as possible to get on the lifelong pharmaceutical/surgical slavery that is transhood without the repercussions of being social pariahs. They have to make it clear to the public that trans is good, trans is normal, be nice to trans – or else – because they know that powerful, wealthy men won’t get on board if being trans weakens their social status.

      • conn suits Says:

        To coelacanth,
        McCarthyism in a Che Guevara T-shirt says it all. It’s like the 70s all over again. I call them Baby Maoists. But that is not the real left. The constant policing of other peoples opinions is carried out by people who do not do any real activism. Let us remember that for the small bit of comfort it is.

        Also, aren’t these “Linebacker Women”, Jenner, Cox, Carrera & Tur (worst public interest law firm ever!) just bringing the 70s tranny hooker subculture into peoples living rooms? 😖

  24. Franklin Says:

    I came here from the Salon article. Even more than the incident itself, which is perhaps to be expected, I find the response to this on the ‘progressive’ wing really disturbing. The Salon article and comments effectively endorse violence against ideological dissenters. First we have radical medical interventions on semi-brainwashed children, now this…is there any place this movement won’t go?

    Also, I am a man and I can tell you that it is EXTREMELY dangerous to legitimize, validate, or even worse celebrate interpersonal violence by males. Some are sure to take you up on the invitation. And that is what is going on here.

    • Susan Nunes Says:

      It is quite true that the worst sexists are on the so-called “left” end of the spectrum. The woman hatred by so-called liberals and progressives back in the late 1960s helped create the so-called “second wave” feminism, especially of the “radical” variety.

      These trans people are literally insane or were made insane. But worse than the trans are the enablers. The most offensive part of last night’s Pinsky show were not Pinsky or Tur or Shapiro or any of the other men. It was the WOMEN on the panel who are so stupid while spewing psychobabble, they are literally shitting on women as a protected class and don’t even see it.

      • liberalsareinsane Says:

        Yea, the handmaidens. I would happily lock them up, for eternity, with the pervs in size 24 stilettos. I believe some of them really are stupid morons who, for some reason, crave male approval above all else but the rest are just worthless vipers who think all of this won’t bite them in their fat asses. Ha!

      • lestoille Says:

        The woman hatred by so-called liberals and progressives back in the late 1960s helped create the so-called “second wave” feminism, especially of the “radical” variety.

        yes and the support of trans is a new leftwing betrayal of women. this gender fascism will be the driving force behind the fourth wave, which is already starting to gear up.

        you know the left is in trouble when they are the ones defending violent threats (including calls for curb stomping), and a rightwing religious “wingnut” comes across as reasonable, calm and with science on his side.

    • grumpyuncleR Says:

      I looked at the article (and comments) over at rawstory. They are similar.

    • stchauvinism Says:

      What’s Bob going to do to a woman who says, “sir, you are in the wrong bathroom”?

      • mon Says:

        I’ll do it. If he slugged me in the mouth I’d sell my house to hire the best to drag every penny out of this prick, bankrupt him, and expose him and his male ways in the process. But I won’t be silenced. Won’t STFU. I’d have a big drawn out cross examination on why he felt justified in the assault. It would involve a lot of questions, and biology talk, and the asshole would have to sit still, be quiet, and listen to it and answer the questions. All the while sitting in a dress and looking like an asshole. Oh yeah, I would so go there. And that includes anyone else who would be so stupid to assault me.

    • Meg Says:

      Also, I am a man and I can tell you that it is EXTREMELY dangerous to legitimize, validate, or even worse celebrate interpersonal violence by males.

      I hope I’m reading you right, and that you mean male violence perpetrated on anyone including women and girls; and not just male-on-male violence.


      • I think “interpersonal” in this instant just refers to personal relationships….? Relationship violence escalates and we must be vigilantly aware of it.

  25. Meg Says:

    Oh god, why does this not surprise me?

    And dear Dr. Drew – fuck off, because if someone is born with a penis and testicles, they are male. I don’t care how small they are (tiny dick syndrome knows no boundaries, does it?). Brain scans are irrelevant, if anything they would prove how gender being attached to sex is a remarkably stupid idea in the first place. Sexual differentiation, at this time in our evolutionary history, is determined by chromosomes. You, as a “doctor” should know this. Even toddlers can tell the difference between boys and girls, so you have no excuse. Dr. Drew sat there and shit on Rachel Dolezal for being a fake then has the gall to give m2ts validity for their pretend identity? He can fuck off a thousand times more because of that.

    NO, I don’t like Dr. Drew and I cannot be talked out of this opinion so I hope nobody bothers to try. He throws women under the bus all the time and gets a pass for it by presenting himself as a “nice guy.” IMO he’s almost worse than overt abusers, because he’s very sly and manipulative about how he goes about shitting on women. If there were a hell, he could rot in it with all the jerks he pretends to be different from.

    • Susan Nunes Says:

      Pinsky thinks because he is an M.D. he knows all there is to know about physical and mental health, but he is not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, and he certainly is not a sociologist. Sex roles, or “gender,” is not innate to men and women and varies across cultures. Roles are social constructs. Anybody with half a brain would know that. Male and female, man and woman, boy and girl, are NOT social constructs but biological realities that are binary with the rare birth defects. The trans propagandists have deliberately muddied the water between biology and sex role stereotypes confusing the hell out of the public in the desire to get social approval for their mental disorders and sexual fetishes. It is not working, and that is why people like Bob Tur react violently when somebody simply points out the truth.

      • conn suits Says:

        Thank you thank you Susan! Yummo! Sexroles sexroles sexroles sexroles sexroles, dammit! It’s sex roles. Gender is just sex roles, dammit. Sex roles are hyper hyper hypermutable, changeable. I know you know that’s what mutable means. Bodies are either male or female. Bodiness doesn’t constrict what you can do with your life. Society may try to. Sports, science, looking after babies, knowing how to cook, blah blah blah , everyone can do everything! 🎉🎉🎉We all know this stuff as you say. “Gender” is a way of making people think there’s some new item in addition to sex roles and biology. But there isn’t. Sex roles sex roles sex roles. 😊

      • Meg Says:

        I agree, Susan, social roles are the problem. m2ts are just switching from one to another, and justifying it by pretending stereotypes about women are real. No, they are not. Reproduction and reproductive reality living in a rape culture – THAT is real. Biology which is independently verifiable and repeatable objective data – THAT is real. Believing you are someone you aren’t? NOT real. Fantasy.

        Dr. Drew is so far from being a sociologist it’s profoundly absurd. If he considers himself a social advocate then he’s sorely mistaken. He’s left out HALF THE HUMAN POPULATION by presuming that he still has a right to police women’s actions while pandering to men’s fantasies in the same breath.

    • ImNoCissie Says:

      I have thought Dr. Drew was an exploitative piece of shit ever since his celebrity rehab days.

      He’s all about promoting Dr. Drew and couldn’t care less about his “patients”.

    • liberalsareinsane Says:

      All tv doctors are snake oil salesmen. Why anyone anywhere watches these bullshitters I. do. not .know.


    • He started out on “The Man Show.”

  26. Susan Nunes Says:

    Tur’s daughter is journalist Katy Tur, who lived for a time with Keith Olbermann. Apparently she was not happy with his “transition”:
    http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/zoey-tur-daughter-katy-has-to-meet-me-to-find-out-who-i-am/254573

    • Mochi Says:

      “She saw her father a certain way, a hero pilot” Tur said. “Bob Tur was legendary, and she liked that.”

      Tur sure does like to project his narcissistic fantasies onto other people.

      Says here the fella’s been in a few “fistfights”. Clearly Bob Tur has no objection to punching a guy right in his dumb stupid face! He’s so ladylike. So much more feminine than regular ladies. So much ladyfeels, this one. Too much!

      I wonder what kind of father this guy is…. Does he treat family members the way he treated Shapiro? Clearly he’s a narcissist. Like Brucilla. And worse, a violent narcissist. I don’t blame that man’s daughter for keeping her distance.

  27. Tiki tiki tavi Says:

    OBruce Jenner said he was more feminine than Serena Williams

  28. whattheholyfuck Says:

    Oh god. People with Kleinfelter Syndrome are MALE.

  29. conn suits Says:

    Dr. Drew is an Internist, y’know like a cardiologist. But with more bits. But he’s an assistant professor of psychiatry at USC. Come on USC get it together, don’t have an Internist doing psychiatry. I don’t care if it’s just addiction stuff. He’s fully participating in this whole transgender mess which in a few more years is going to be the new thalidomide.

    (I realize USC probably doesn’t read this blog. That’s USC’s problem.😄)

    • Susan Nunes Says:

      I can’t see how this guy is working as a professor of psychiatry. That is just sick. His ignorance about transgenderism, which is really an anti-woman political movement with medical and psychiatric trappings, is so obvious.

    • Susan Nunes Says:

      This explains what constitutes a doctor of internal medicine. It s basically a family practice physician, a g.p. of adults and not of children: https://www.acponline.org/medical_students/impact/archives/2010/12/perspect/

      • Violet Irene Says:

        There’s an old joke about this: “Internists know everything and do nothing; Surgeons know nothing and do everything; Psychiatrists know nothing and do nothing; Pathologists know everything and do everything but it’s too late.”

      • conn suits Says:

        Good. I gave the Canadian version. Read a book once about a Yank woman who had a heart transplant in her 20s. After that she concluded that “internists are doctors for people who aren’t sick”, ie general practitioners, family doctors.

        That has led me to wonder how many of the doctors actually doing the transgender stuff are practicing outside their specialty. Which isn’t actually illegal at least in Canada. But it is dubious. Are all of these “transitionings” dependent on medicine being massively unregulated?

      • Dogtowner Says:

        Thanks, Violet Irene, for the joke! I shall share with my RN husband.

        I know of no regulation in the U.S. forbidding doctors to practice outside their specialty. Any doc can take a weekend plastic surgery course and set him/herself up as a plastic surgeon. As it seems to be a growing and lucrative field, I can imagine docs setting themselves up as trans specialists.

  30. Pearl Says:

    I don’t understand where the insult is in that panelist’s statement? Zoey Tur is a male. No amount of women’s clothes, makeup, implants, hormones, and magical thinking is going to change that fact.

    “Shapiro reports on Twitter that Tur continued the threats off camera, stating he would ‘see [Shapiro] in the parking lot’. The panelist had to be escorted off the lot by security for his own protection””

    Interesting, I’ve never heard a woman (adult female) say this to a man (adult male). This is a solid example of a male response.

    • dbrvnk Says:

      I’ve heard of women talking that way to men—and don’t object to it in the slightest, lol. But usually there’s something more serious than ‘misgendering’ involved—racism, sexual harassment, etc—and usually the woman is not alone. And the man tries to dismiss her by being like “chill out! It was a joke/no one else gets upset about this/stop being such a b*tch!”, even if he’s clearly shaken by the threat. The dynamics are very different.

      • conn suits Says:

        dbrvnk, thank you for your earlier comment about the trans support groups. That is fascinating. I had no idea there were all these different subgroups. I suspect this started out about the small, fem men. Not that they should mutilate their bodies either. Now there are these gigantic macho dangerous guys screaming transphobe at any questioning and so many progressives just following their lead.

        Thank you so much for the information. 😊

    • Meg Says:

      Thanks for posting this. This comment stood out for me:

      Velma E Taylor Alderson · Top Commenter
      Bravo DL…sooo people are afraid of the social media backlash so they say what they know the media wants to hear. The media has been virtually silent on all the hate flowing toward Serena…she’s being ripped apart for having real women’s body and Bruce is being celebrated for having a fake woman’s body…that is absurd.

      So true. Serena Williams has been targeted so many times by racialized misogyny, yet a white, male pre-op, testosterone laden m2t is called “beautiful” and “courageous.” Really? Really people? Someone explain to me again how transpolitics aren’t just another form of white and male supremacism.

      I also heard about Tur’s threat to “curb stomp” Shapiro on Twitter. That’s an antisemitic threat right there, something American neo-nazis invented.

      I will say this: I hate Brietbart, I loathe them completely. I don’t read them and Shapiro is probably an asshat. With that said, there is never ANY excuse to threaten someone with an act of violence that is both horribly cruel and evokes systematic oppression. If Bob Tur can’t handle biological facts without going full metal jacket, then he needs to be removed from general society and given anger management therapy.

      • Radical Grandma Says:

        Just wait until a famous liberal comes out with criticism of trans behavior–they will be savaged just as much as any conservative and will be shown the “error of their ways”, just for the act of not buying into their bullshit.

        The trans “community” is no community at all–just a bunch of narcissistic male fame whores and women haters online who deliver the meme that anyone who disagrees with them in any way whatsoever will pay dearly.

        It’s sad that so many are falling for their delusions.

    • Derrick Jensen Says:

      The comments I saw were scornful of Jenner. I don’t go to Salon or any of those other sites, but so often elsewhere that seems to be my experience: it seems that if you get into some sort of cross section of people, away from academia and queer theory circles, and away from the mainstream media (and I’m sure away from other places too), people understand that if you have a penis you’re a male. Just today I was talking with a friend who is pretty conservative, and doesn’t think about these issues at all. We were talking about Bruce Jenner, and my friend started laughing and said, “And you know what they’ll probably try to say next? That chromosomes don’t matter to your sex!” He was making a joke, but sadly, I had to tell him that they’ve long since been doing that. He was dumbstruck. His next comment was interesting, too. He said, “The only argument I could see them being able to make that chromosomes don’t matter to your sex is to attack anyone who disagrees with them.” I couldn’t believe how right on he was, since he hasn’t seen them in action.

    • kesher Says:

      Unfortunately, Hughley is also a misogynist so he’s no ally to women. It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s a major reason why he’s not toeing the party line on Jenner. Since he doesn’t respect women, he sees no reason to respect trans “women”.

      Aside from the male supremacists who correctly see trans ideology as an attack on women, I’d wager that most “allies” sadly think they’re somehow supporting women by supporting MTTs.

  31. ImNoCissie Says:

    We are through the looking glass and watching the Emperor(s) model their new clothes on the wall with Humpty Dumpty.

    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

    =========================================

    How dare you call a man — he!
    How dare you talk about chromosomes and DNA! You’re not an expert in genetics!

    If you notice that the emperor is naked, you aren’t fit to live and you will go home in an ambulance! Or maybe, a hearse, if you don’t survive the curb-stomping!

  32. charlston Says:

    Its one thing to be rude or offensive. Its quite another to threaten someone psychically when you don’t like their point of view or facts. If you were expecting to have total agreement and not be offended on this debate then don’t participate. This is not the first time I have seen threats made or acted out like this. I would have called the police.

  33. Ashland Avenue Says:

    So the panelists who said to Shapiro, “Well, what did you expect? You were disrespectful!” – that’s the exact same language used by men who beat women, in order to justify their violence. The exact same.

    Fuck all y’all: Drew Pinsky, Bob Tur, and the shithead panelists who sounded like the drunk guy who just backhanded his wife for being upset that he’s drunk again.

    Bob Tur, you’re a man, through and through. And a very sick one, at that. You really showed your true colors here. Thank you!

    • imnocissie Says:

      Shapiro said on Twitter that he did report the threat to the police. Wonder if anything will come of it

      • Zemskull Says:

        I doubt Tur will have to do any time, but that’s probably a good thing. He’d demand to be in a women’s jail. Plenty of women in prison have been victims of domestic violence and rape at the hands of larger men.

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      When reading about Tur yesterday, I found out that he has a history of violence, that he grew up with a violent father who he hated. That’s probably where the self-hatred as a male came from.

      He needs therapy, not a sex change, before he winds up hurting or killing someone, because it’s not going to get better.

  34. Newbie Says:

    The Washington Times ran a story with the correct headline: Ben Shapiro threatened by transgender reporter: ‘You’ll go home in an ambulance’
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/17/ben-shapiro-threatened-air-transgender-reporter-yo/

  35. mayimoktoo Says:

    *sigh* I’m so over all of this.

    Honestly, I know this has been questioned extensively but why can’t they just be trans? A male or female who prefers to present in some costume of gender. I don’t care how people dress or what they preferred to be called by. We really only need “he” or “she” for medical reasons. Everything else is just the habits of oppression or privilege.

    Call them trans. Let MtT be inspired by women and create/fight for their own restrooms, shelters, and festivals. Let FtT reap the benefits of being considered male. Let everyone date whoever they have mutual attraction with and leave everyone else alone. Whatever.

    Also, this has been bugging me. I’m supposedly “cis” because my given costume matches what society expects of my sex. I look female and supposedly I feel feel female. Except I don’t, I feel like a normal human stuck in a society that despises me because I happen to be a woman. So if MtTs now look female and feel female (often “more” female than my poor born-woman self) aren’t they more cis than I am?

    Sorry, It’s late and I’m depressed by the stupidity of it all.


    • if we were all left alone as you put it, we wouldnt have male supremacy and male entitlement and compulsory heterosexuality.
      we would have a feminist revolution. Our sex would matter abut as much as our height or dexterity,; an indication of what we might be able to do, perhaps..

      I understand that that you’re tired, but these men are dismantling the women’s colleges and women only spaces in gyms, swimming pools, refuge shelters, everywhere.
      they are speaking as if they are women, and commandeering the lesbian community.

      Many of them, like this guy, are extremely aggressive and violent in their possession of our reality, and they must be resisted.

    • marm Says:

      I am with you, 100%.

    • Bea Says:

      Yes, if Zoey Turd has “always been female,” has a “female penis,” has female on his birth certificate, etc. and is feminine, comfortable with femininity…then he’s the cisgender one. Their whole ideology is such a clusterfuck.

      • Meg Says:

        I’ve always been confused about that too. Many “cis” women do not conform to their gender, but they are continued to be accused of being “cis.” Trans people actively conform to gender, and seek surgery to conform to the gender they want to belong to. So how can I see transpeople as “gender variant” or “existing outside the binary” when they are essentially functioning within the exact same binary they talk endlessly about? If the gender binary are just two boxes of preconceived perceptions about people based on their sex, they are just trading one box for another. If anyone who exists within the box is cis, therefore, that would make them cis as well once they get there.

    • Em Says:

      ” … why can’t they just be trans?”

      They fantasize that they’re female. You wouldn’t want to kill their buzz, now, would you?

      • mayimoktoo Says:

        Em, I do, I do wanna kill their buzz. Like someone bringing up FGM at a pithy award show, that dead.

        Same with porn and prostitution. Sure it’s all good clean fun until some damn feminist points out sex trafficking, long term medical effects, PTSD, and all the rest. If sexual satisfaction is being bought with women’s pain, then I want to be the boner killer.

  36. liberalsareinsane Says:

    Shapiro might end up in the bottom of buffalo bill aka bob tur’s pit in the basement.

  37. endthewoo Says:

    Ironic that one of the ways the trans thugs and their supporters have a go at Shapiro is by attacking his “manliness”: b*tch, virgin, weak, small, child. Classic macho posturing and misogyny.

    Referring to a Jewish person as an “insect” is pretty unpleasant too, definite antisemitic vibes coming through in a lot of the comments.

    I hope that guy presses charges.

    • Margie Says:

      He has tweeted that he is contacting the police. Good for him. I have said for a very long time that women have failed to use instances of trans thuggery as an opportunity to prosecute. In all the years of their harassment of MichFest, there was no serious effort to work with state or local law enforcement to arrest and prosecute. This failure to call in law enforcement might be ideological or it might just be laziness, but whatever it is, we need to get over it and learn to report them every single time. These thugs need to be taught that violence will be costly to them.

      BTW, I see a lot of attacks on his physical stature and appearance. It’s disgusting. If there is one group of people who should not be drawing attention to physical appearance, it’s trans activists.

      • endthewoo Says:

        This failure to call in law enforcement might be ideological or it might just be laziness

        Or maybe the knowledge that the cops and courts and public will side with abusers when women are being attacked, that making it official can often make the whole things 10x worse ?

        I see a lot of attacks on his physical stature and appearance. It’s disgusting.

        It’s classic male-on-male dick waving

  38. kesher Says:

    I have no doubt that, if a woman were disrespected by a man on a political panel, if she responded with violent threats, or with anything other than humor or grace under fire, she would be castigated by onlookers, even, or especially, by liberals. I also suspect that a slight, effeminate gay man or even, perhaps, an MTT who passes somewhat well as a woman (likely due to having been a slight, effeminate gay man pre-transition) similarly would be criticized for this kind of behavior.

    Only heterosexual white men can threaten other men with impunity. No one is under any illusions about Bob Tur being anything other than a man.

  39. endthewoo Says:

    Adding that Breitbart (nasty right-wing hate-site where Shapiro is editor) is using this incident to add to their other anti-gay propoganda.

    Vile men and their pissing contests while women are the ones that really suffer the fallout as usual.

    • Meg Says:

      Ain’t that the truth? We’re expected to duck male violence every moment of our lives, and all without ever saying anything unfavorable about the precious menz.

    • Margie Says:

      I would add that LGBs are the victims too. As you pointed out, Breitbart and the rest of the homophobic media machine will now use the actions of that mentally unbalanced trans activist against us. Because of the sham construct of “LGBT,” LGBs are held responsible for the actions of a discrete group over which we have no control. I have no idea what his sexual orientation is, but it could be anything. T is not a sexual orientation and Ts can be straight, gay or bi, and most are straight – just like any person picked at random on the street. That we should be joined at the hip with these evil people is a tragedy. It is without question the worst mistake ever made in LGB history.

      • Ashland Avenue Says:

        Agree x1000, Margie; very well said. One way I have to combat this is to simply let my feelings about trannies be known when the topic comes up, and explain why I feel that way – as a woman and as a lesbian. This simple action gets the word out that we’re not all on board with this bullshit, and that it’s O.K. to feel this way. Plus, I recommend this website.🙂

  40. GallusMag Says:

    When I got this curb stomping threat from a “transwoman” no one cared. He said he was going to curbstomp my “crotch”. There have been others.

    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/more-cotton-ceiling-lesbian-bashing-from-the-trans-community/#comment-8064

    “get_educated_hos101 Says:

    April 13, 2012 at 9:00 am e
    bahahaha…you’re pathetic…you weak ass lesbian. Get educated and stop disgracingl the rest of the *good* lesbians out there. People like you make me sick and are the most hypocritical foulest beings out there. I guess you havnt been informed that there are other terms different then *transexual*. I bet the “men” that you think “rape” you’re kind are just cross dressers and dont actually have the birth condition like real transwomen do. You also ARE transphobic, so stop denying it and accept you’re an ignorant swine of humanity. I only sympathize for you people. You would know better what it feels like not being able to be who you are. You’re major hypocrites. Its no wonder why many transexuals have stopped hanging around the gays…and I also love gay people too, but not the disgustingly ignorant and retarded ones like you. you’re also very sexist towards men thinking just because some of them have dicks their instant rapist. You’re idiotic and have the I.q level of a horsefly. You want us to treat you with respect..then respect us first you dumb tuna whore. Thats how it is! you either get educated or you leave us the fuck alone or will happily curbstomp you’re torn-up mammoth crotch in. Too bad you bleed every month…we dont…haha…and I’ve heard plenty of cis-women say that periods suck. So good look with the unclean venus flytrap you have ho. I also dont hate cis-women, I only hate the educated, disgusting, retarded ones like yourself.”

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      Absolutely horrendous. If you “step out of line” and dare to criticize them in order to retain your own integrity and authority as a woman, this is what you get. It’s what probably most of us have run into, and those who defend this asshole’s attitude are scum, too. We don’t fall for their propaganda, so we’re targets. As women, we’re on our own out there, for sure. Not one person actually came to my defense when I dared to present a different POV from a woman’s perspective and was attacked by a male for it Not one.

      • mon Says:

        I care. I am sorry you have to wade through all this vile stuff to provide this forum for us. We all appreciate it, very, very much.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        I’ve seen this all my life, Radical Grandma. If one decides to speak out, one will be on one’s own. After being left out in the cold by the person I was defending (as well as the rest of the group), I learned to pick my battles.

        One thing to remember about The Turd is that bullies are essentially cowards. As long as he thinks he can overwhelm someone smaller/weaker than he is, he will posture and threaten. The day he felt threatened he ran to take out a TRO, am I right?

    • lestoille Says:

      nasty violent man. and venus fly trap? god, at least try to conceal your bitter and twisted male inferiority complex.

      gallus thanks for moderating this space so we can talk about these issues without being exposed to this kind of shit regularly. i hate to think about the comments you get that you don’t publish. it must take a toll.

    • K Says:

      “You want us to treat you with respect..then respect us first you dumb tuna whore.”

      Ahahaha…. Oh man. And then he went and told his friends how an ‘ugly cisso dyke’ was mean to him, weeping copiously and asking “why can’t we all just get along??”

    • Newbie Says:

      Gallus, I’m so sorry you have to read those hateful threats every day, but so very grateful. Thank you for speaking out and providing this resource. I’m actually PayPalphobic due to a hacking years ago, but I’m going to get a prepaid card or something so I can donate to you.
      I’m curious, is the blog receiving more unique hits with the media push over the last few months? I certainly was unaware of the “really a woman because lady brain” trope until the Bruce Jenner frenzy.

      • GallusMag Says:

        blog stats have been in a continual upward gradient for the life of the blog. i did note a sharp jump in daily and casual readers after Jenner, yes.

    • kesher Says:

      Ah, the calling card of the rank misogynist: “I don’t hate women; I just hate the bitches who won’t obey and worship me.” Surprisingly enough, this turns out to be nearly all women.

    • morag99 Says:

      ‘When I got this curb stomping threat from a “transwoman” no one cared. He said he was going to curbstomp my “crotch”. There have been others.’

      Of course. But you’re just a woman and a lesbian. Threats of violence against non-persons isn’t actually violence. Who cares if male transgenderists threaten to curb stomp and sexually violate the likes of you? And, not just threaten assault online, but follow through in the actual world, by raping girls and women as much as — if not more — than other men.

      Yet, the Breitbart report on Bob Tur’s “curb stomping” threat against Shapiro is illustrated with a rainbow flag emblazoned with a swastika. So, there it is: trans, bisexual, gay and lesbian are united under one terrifying and menacing symbol, and they are all one and same: perverts, fascists, and probably anti-semites too.

      Never mind that lesbians, because they are women, are under constant surveillance and threat both without and WITHIN the LGBT. Never mind that gay men are still persecuted just for being gay. Never mind that these fetishistic mobsters in dresses are the new face of all gayness — that they are regarded, in fact, as some kind of “super-gay” even though these sick men — who have the biggest platforms and the loudest voices — are actually an extreme form of heterosexual who are turning themselves, via play-acting and mutilation, into facsimiles of the mutilated women they want to fuck, control and possess.

      None of that matters. The rainbow flag, in the right-wing mind, represents a band of homosexual thugs — including lesbians — cavorting in public, out and proud, destroying the family and civil society by any means possible, including by violent means.

      What seems pretty obvious is that ghoulish male trans activists are quite deliberately helping the right-wingers along. They’re quite happily stoking the fires of their misunderstandings, religious manias and hatreds. The fetishists, they like it this way. It puts gay men in the crosshairs. It ignites conservative misogyny and puts lesbians, feminists and, by extension, all women in even more danger. The ghouls can feed off of women’s pain, they can cause that pain, get off on it, and nobody will notice or care.

      • kesher Says:

        The het dudes pretending to be women are overwhelmingly misogynists and homophobes. If it weren’t for their paraphilias, they would number among the anti-LGBT religious right wing.

      • endthewoo Says:

        a rainbow flag emblazoned with a swastika … male trans activists are quite deliberately helping the right-wingers along

        That flag image is very nasty. In Europe and former Soviet States neo-nazism is an ongoing problem, and scum right wingers will see it as a rallying cry against LGB. But both the Breitbart types and Trans are homophobes and misogynists.

        Which is ironic, Tur and Shapiro probably have quite a lot in common politically.

        Even the moronic liberals lump in people who want ordinary consenting relationships with violent fetishists, they just do it in the name of “tolerance ” instead.

      • gchild Says:

        If your not gay, but you accept/embrace homosexuality, you feel obligated to accept trans ideology otherwise you seem bigotted towards gays/lesbians. And I would rather swallow my tongue than offend my gay/lesbian friends. I love these people. They are my family.

        We can’t talk about trans because they sense I am not on the trans train. The thing is, I don’t think they are either really (Ive known these people since God was a boy). But we can’t really discuss it because we are all afraid to sound offensive/bigotted. They don’t want to sound like hipocrites, I dont want to come off anti gay/lesbian. We are SILENCED among each other. How fucked up is that?

        Some nights I pray that the LGB would drop the T. I don’t ever say it, but I wish they would, oh how I wish they would.

    • liberalsareinsane Says:

      “I don’t hate cis-women, I only hate the educated, disgusting, retarded ones like yourself.”

      Translation: I like the stepford like ones; bitches who do as I say and only have an opinion if I give them one and never call me on my huge amount of bullshit.

    • Meg Says:

      You’re idiotic and have the I.q level of a horsefly. You want us to treat you with respect..then respect us first you dumb tuna whore. Thats how it is! you either get educated or you leave us the fuck alone or will happily curbstomp you’re torn-up mammoth crotch in. Too bad you bleed every month…we dont…haha…and I’ve heard plenty of cis-women say that periods suck. So good look with the unclean venus flytrap you have ho.

      Then…

      I also dont hate cis-women, I only hate the educated, disgusting, retarded ones like yourself.”

      The lack of logic here is breathtaking. No, a male cannot say on one hand that he believes lesbians are weak, use misogynist and racialized misogynist slurs, that pussies are gross and an acceptable target of violence; then claim in the same breath that he doesn’t hate women.

      This is exactly why women are forced to presume every man is a potential rapist, because men consistently resort to sexualized violence against women to terrorize us into submission.

      Oh, and LOL@ the “educated” part of the comment. He hates educated women. Like most men have and still do.

    • Bea Says:

      “I also dont hate cis-women, I only hate the educated…ones like yourself.” Nice Freudian slip, dude.

    • Bea Says:

      Also, the fact that he thinks women’s vaginas are “unclean,” sounds just like the Patriarchal Sociopathic Tyrannical Menz Manual of Nature-Hate and Manhood called The Bible…and it makes me shudder.

      • Teal Deer Says:

        They’re a hell of a lot cleaner than those Frankenhole pooginas the doctors make.

      • BadDyke Says:

        It’s really, I think, the same ole nonsense. As Germaine Greer said, they don’t know anything about having “have a big, hairy, smelly vagina.” Rather than a functioning organ, they try to replace it with a ‘clean’, surgical, scientific fuck-hole (if they go that route at all!). Just as they try to replace natural childbirth with scientific, medicalised hospital deliveries and caesareans. Or the usual sci-fi baby in a bottle fantasies, to go along with their sci-fi body transplants or whatever other pseudo-scientific weirdness they’re fantasizing about. This rejection of messy, internal biological reality, either as womb-envy for what they do not have, hence they try to claim it is not real or important, or just plain gross. Odd really for those who often claim sex dysphoria that the SEX they seem to be most dysphoric about is the female. They’re NOT female biology, they very obviously HATE that given the phrases above — they want to be the true third sex, what WOMEN would/should have been if created by a man (like themselves) — what ‘femininity is when it IS created by men. Just the plastic, mouldable exterior. The nail-polish, silicone boobs, facial surgery exterior all bound in a nice corset like Caitlyn — who needs genital surgery when you have all that!

        The ‘educated’, clean, surgical, white-coated male, creating a ‘better’ woman by his own hands, whilst women and their messy biological bodies and processes get rejected or conquered, just as women and nature always were, from the romans onwards (I’m thinking of romans who displayed their male mastery of nature by the mass killings of animals and humans in the arena). We have men who’d rather have a relationship with a plastic doll than an actual woman, so transwoman is just making yourself into that plastic doll, even better! Better than real women, not so MESSY as breeders, SEXIER than real women………………..

      • lestoille Says:

        BadDyke, your whole comment is gold

        Odd really for those who often claim sex dysphoria that the SEX they seem to be most dysphoric about is the female.

        this is a really good point. MTFs are like “don’t talk about periods and vagina stuff because it triggers my dysphoria”. and FTMs are like “don’t remind me about my period and vagina stuff because it triggers my dysphoria”. Dysphoria always seems to be centered on the female body. you’ve raised something really interesting with that and i need to think about this some more. fascinating.

        We have men who’d rather have a relationship with a plastic doll than an actual woman, so transwoman is just making yourself into that plastic doll, even better!

        yesterday on reddit (ew, i know) one of the top threads on the Ask sub was “what’s going to be the next big thing?” and the highest rated comment out of thousands was “VR porn”. no surprises there, but that comment triggered a discussion and one guy went on a tangent about “forget the porn part, holograms are becoming more viable and soon we’ll be able to have a whole virtual girlfriend where she sits on the opposite side of the table and you can eat a meal together and converse before fucking”

        it’s like, really? this is what you want and aspire to? it sounds so depressing and neckbeardy. but going back to the Pygmalion myth men have always been fixated on this idea, an ultimate technological achievement and fantasy, which is quite bizarre when you think about it.

        germaine greer wrote something (in the whole woman i think) about how men are retreating ever more into a fantasy world of porn and video games and other diversions, and i can only agree with that. trans is one example, because for an autogynephile, transitioning into “woman” means he literally BECOMES PORN, for himself.

        i feel there is a rich tapestry of male pathology in all this, and if i could be bothered i would write a thesis about it

      • soporificat Says:

        @BadDyke — Your comment is so on point that it is a little bit painful.

        The trans mentality is simply the extreme, yet logical, extension of patriarchal values and ideas. It’s very educational to observe these sociopathic dudes, and to watch all the handmaidens scurrying about doing dirty work on their behalf.

        The handmaidens think the MtT surely must love women, otherwise how could they possibly want to be one? So, they think: here is a man who will love and understand what it means to be a woman! Finally, I can direct my resources to a man without being taken advantage of. (Because, lets be real, people, EVERYONE knows that MtT are men. Everyone knows it–no matter how desperately or forcefully they try to lie about it. We also know that internalized misogyny means that all people at all times have the urge to locate the man in any group and direct resources to him, rather than to any woman.)

        It is tragi-comic to see these women crapping on other women in their haste to suck up to these men, thinking that MtT care about them in any way, when it is so clear that MtT hate women more than just about any other man does.

        I think one of the hardest things for women to understand or accept is how much men hate you. The contempt for women is deep, but since it is deep within ourselves, too, it is hard to see. But, when you do finally see it, it is hard to accept because it is so horrifying and disheartening. Btw, watching FtT behavior is a good lesson in observing how much women hate themselves, too.

        What a mess.

      • ElleDriver Says:

        lestoille:

        “but going back to the Pygmalion myth men have always been fixated on this idea, an ultimate technological achievement and fantasy, which is quite bizarre when you think about it.”

        Considering the number of white MTTs in the STEM fields, *especially* IT and social media, this whole gender identity bullshit seems inextricably tied to technology. Where better to create an artificial persona? A persona that becomes more and more real, more and more accepted by your anonymous peers and cheerleaders.

      • Dogtowner Says:

        Great comment, BadDyke, as well as follow-up comments. I think trans is the logical outcome of humans’ alienation from the natural world AND the fact that there are huge numbers of people, especially men, who have nothing to do. Your emphasis on the supposed “cleanliness” of the surgical model (which is, in truth, rife with bad bacteria and infection) is spot-on — whatever is made in a factory (I include surgical suites here) is superior to Mother Nature’s endless creativity in this mindset. I don’t see how anyone can look at technology and what it has done to the world, and find trans at all surprising — it encapsulates just about everything that is wrong with the human species.

      • Meg Says:

        lestoille, that sounds a whole lot like transhumanism, where men love technology so much they want to become the machine they’re obsessed with. Same pathology, different name.

    • Bea Says:

      And for all you disgusting transhumanist filth out there: periods are a small price to pay for not being a fucking subhuman necrophiliac.

    • Biscuit Says:

      That’s horrible. And thanks for providing this space.

    • conn suits Says:

      Gallus, thank you so much for having this wonderful blog. Thank you for keeping out all that horrible shit that you then have to read. 😖 so that we can come here and read and think. 😊 you have wonderful commenters too.

      I reached Peak Trans on this very blog this very month. Thank you.


  41. I like to call this dude Bob Turd. Because that’s what he is.

  42. Radical Grandma Says:

    This is what puzzles me about younger people: They concentrate too much on “information” and publicity on the internet to think they know the wisdom of the ages, such as young “Michelle” Hindley, a mtt, for example, who said,

    “Before my transition, I was very quiet, very much introverted but as soon as I opened up to the Internet, I immediately gained all kinds of attention and all of it positive,” she says.

    “We live in the age of information, we can learn about anything we want through Google, and more and more people are learning and able to see (trans) individuals all across the spectrum.”

    Just because you “learn” something on the internet doesn’t mean it’s correct. Just because you put yourself “out there” on the internet doesn’t mean everyone approves of what you do. Information is not wisdom; it’s not even an education. It’s a tool and you have to know if it’s real, if it’s true, if it’s something that is useful and good to not only you, but to society.

    Internet life is just not the same as real life since it’s full of delusional people who want to latch on to those who simply agree with them, esp in the pursuit of the impossible, the bizarre, and even the criminal. It’s full of those who don’t necessarily wish for the freedom and rights of others, but more so has become the calling card for sociopaths, grifters, and weirdos who convince others that it’s their way or the highway.

    The wide-open internet is a libertarian’s dream come true; a kind of “fuck you, I’ve got mine” path to fame and fortune and the uninitiated, the naive, and the just plain stupid lap it up at their own expense (which is a large part of lib-fems who don’t come to their senses and just want to be part of the “cool kids”). The worst part is, it’s all driven by the libertarian-minded male establishment of the techno-world, some, like Steve Jobs, a narcissistic, self-involved fascist, and others who could give a flying fig about women, about us maintaining our integrity, rights, even our lives, and our unwillingness to be subsumed by their “accomplishments” which we’re not allowed to criticize.

    • lestoille Says:

      the tranny movement would barely exist and certainly not exist in its current form without the internet.

      the internet reinforces the myth that self-identification is all that matters because on the internet no one knows you’re a dog. i could pretend to be black and hang out on an urban music forum. i could pretend to be male and hang out on a gamer forum. without given evidence to the contrary, people generally trust that you are who you say you are.

      those who do most of their socializing online forget the real world is not made from pictures and words. people don’t classify you according to your avatar and 40 word blurb. it’s meatspace baby, bodies matter. Black, male, etc these identities refer to concrete realities, and offline, self-indentifcation might as well be re named “wishful thinking”.

      this is why tranny activism is basically one long continuous tantrum. they expect the real world to be as ambiguous and fluid as the online world. they expect identity to be as inconsequential offline as it is online. when it isn’t, they have a meltdown. when trannys insist that we ignore reality, they are demanding that we turn the whole world into a mmorpg.

    • Tim Says:

      All very true and well said! I’m reminded of that famous cartoon, “on the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog” but it’s also true that if you want to pretend you are a dog, nobody knows you’re not one.

    • Dogtowner Says:

      YES!

    • Meg Says:

      “Before my transition, I was very quiet, very much introverted but as soon as I opened up to the Internet, I immediately gained all kinds of attention and all of it positive,” she says.

      This is what bothers me about the Internet. Anyone can find validation for anything, no matter how crazy, delusional, or abusive it is. Do you believe you’re a car and should surgically attach a headlight to your ass? There’s a yahoo group for that, filled with people who will support you, and send out hate messages on your behalf when someone else doesn’t validate your fantasy.

      I love the free information, and free exchange of ideas the Internet holds. I would not be the same person if it weren’t for the Internet. My first steps toward feminism began on the Internet years ago. Despite the Internet’s potential to do so much good, it has become a platform for abusive and misogynist personalities that do everything to guarantee that women will never have the same degree of free speech men do. Women have never been free to really say what they want to say, if so, feminism wouldn’t be the only place where we see a real critique of male violence.

  43. charlston Says:

    As I have said elsewhere people need a trigger warning to watch that unfold. It is way to close to home for some people. The fallback is that they have to put up with so much hate and sadness in their lives etc blah…
    I read on one comment section that the other guy Ben, deserved it for offending that piece of anger ridden excuse for a decent human being. I suggested to them that to EVER encourage violence and to say it is sometimes ok was disgusting . I can’t even believe that was passed off as appropriate TV . I would have called the police.

  44. wwomenwwarriors Says:

    Reblogged this on when women were warriors and commented:
    Wow. It’s informative to see that men cannot get away with stating facts in the face of these gender delusions either. “Call me she or I’ll assault you,” is fascism in action. This is sickness . This is violence. This is delusion.

    • southwest88 Says:

      Get ready for more fact-free fun. http://queereka.com/2015/07/17/so-what-if-i-wasnt-born-this-way/
      Now just because something is not biologically correct, it doesn’t make any difference, identity politics uber alles!
      Also, had a couple of fact-frees in my Twitter feed yesterday tell me that I could not use the word delusional because it was hateful to mentally ill people. So, it seems that the tactics we will see from the AFTAs will be to declare every word they don’t like to be hateful and simply dismiss any need for anything to be grounded in facts, truth, logic, or reason.
      They know that they lose any reasonable debate on the facts and so will be conducting fact-free warfare from now on. Look for things to get more heated, not less, at least for the next couple of years.

      • kesher Says:

        I don’t really like using “delusional” to describe trans cultists anyway, mainly because I’m not convinced that most are, truly, delusional. Surely some of them are, but many know full well that they’re lying and are motivated primarily by a desire to dominate and control women.


  45. Wow, what amazes me is that they all thought calling him out, calling him a man, was “amazingly aggressive”, and NONE of them made any comment as to how amazingly aggressive it is to advise someone that if they speak their opinion again, “You’re gonna be going home in an ambulance”….
    The guy threatened to disable and disfigure him live on air, whilst touching him on the arm and then on the back of his neck, after having announced that he had ben shot and knifed and flown missions, all testifying as to his macho status, he then threatens actual, grievous bodily harm….
    what do they all do, does anyone protect him or intervene to defend him?
    No way.
    astonishing!
    They all gang up on him and proceed to bully him outrageously.

    This is severe social sanctioning… severe…
    Theyre gonna be accusing us of witchcraft again, soon…

    Then they say, “we’ve got to be more tolerant”, with the implication being that the Jewish guy is the person who isn’t being ‘tolerant’…. after he’s been told that he is uneducated, and “knows nothing”, after he does not react defensively or aggressively, he is told that he is intolerant.

    This is social pressure and conformity the like of which even Asch would not have believed.
    Crazy shit.

    • Pf Says:

      Too late. an anon genderist already called a woman on tumblr talking about cellulite as a female secondary sex characteristic a “witch craft practicing dyke” (sic).

      So yeah, already happened.

  46. Newbie Says:

    The ultimate irony is that Shapiro was there to plug his book entitled, “Bullies: How the Left’s Culture of Fear and Intimidation Silences Americans.”

    Way to prove the right winger’s point, Dr. Drew panel.

    • southwest88 Says:

      Just breezed by Jezebel/Gawker and searched for “Zoey Tur” and, except for one old article about Jenner, not a thing came up about this guy threatening violence and putting his hand on another person in a violent manner. Huffington Post? Not a thing about it! Now imagine if some right winger on a TV show threatened and touched a trans. Would be a story all over the neolib/progressive world. I was going to use radfem rather than right winger in the example but then I realized that NO real radfem is ever going to be invited onto a TV show like Drew’s, LOL!
      Funny how such much of the pro-trans media has gone “radio silent” on this! And I would love love love love if somebody (TMZ probably) could get a recording online of the threats Mr. Tur made to Shapiro off-camera. Those MUST have been worse if the show had security for Shapiro to get to his vehicle without being attacked!

      • Mochi Says:

        The advocate covered it. Some of the comments in that article are so, so disheartening.

        So now straight men have the entire gay community wrapped around their finger. Freaking me out. What has happened!?

        Gallus, you’ve been sounding the alarm for years. I hope that more people start paying attention. Peak trans is upon us.

  47. Newbie Says:

    DL is not unique, and I doubt he’s afraid of the backlash. Black people are not gonna go along with this. True, homosexuality is less accepted in black communities because of religion. But black Christianity is very different from white, it’s allegorical and communal. I’d hazard to guess that all black trans are effeminate gay men, I’ve never met a black AGP. I’m willing to bet that most black people are going to see this as white people telling them to believe something they know isn’t true. It isn’t about hatred or malice or ‘phobia,’ it’s about speaking truth to power, refusing to love Big Brother (or in this case, Big Sister.) It’s what black folks have always had to do to survive. Tell the truth and shame the devil.

    • ImNoCissie Says:

      I saw this attributed to Dave Chappelle today:

      ‘I support anyone’s right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?’

      Supposed to be the punchline of a joke he tells where he uses the pronoun “he” to refer to a trans “woman” and gets the icy stare from the people around him.

      • Elle Says:

        ‘I support anyone’s right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?’

        That it right there to me, in a nutshell, and it’s why I did not stay in my marriage when my ex “came out” as T.

      • Meg Says:

        ‘I support anyone’s right to be who they want to be. My question is: to what extent do I have to participate in your self-image?’

        Well, that is the question of the day, isn’t it? Since when is anyone entitled to make everyone else part of their lifestyle?

        http://jezebel.com/woman-who-was-walked-on-a-leash-was-very-cool-says-eye-1706801935

    • gchild Says:

      I agree Newbie. Except I don’t think black people view homosexuality and transgenderism solely based on religion.

      Underlying the intolerance is a lack of belief in “born that way” and “innate gender”. And its not that black people simply disagree with these theories, they reject both as flat out lies! Its unfortunate, but when we consider how many lies black people have been told about their own innate inferiority (including an “animalistic sexuality”), and the innate inferiority of other nonwhites and that black men and women never really conformed to sex roles by white standards anyway, it makes sense that the black community is highly suspicion when white people declare what is innate human behavior and what is not. I hear this explanation more often than religious based ones.

      Btw, DL is a misogynist asshole. There won’t have be any backlash because nobody really gives a damn what he says or does anymore.

      • Newbie Says:

        I just noticed this comment and I agree completely, gchild. In fact that was my point, too, although it was probably unclear. I was noting that people might assume (wrongly) that religious black people are similar to religious white people in their reasons for rejecting the trans narrative. But that, in fact, black Christianity is wholly different from white, and blacks see this not as a religious issue, but as white people lying with a straight face.

        And yes, DL is an utterly shitty person, but it is true that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And frankly, every time I hear a man call this nonsense out I feel like reality might be taken as a valid viewpoint finally. Even the anti-abortion Shapiro, as much as I hate what he stands for, I’m still grateful that he said those things because we know society only listens to men, right? It sucks but it isn’t going to shut me up.

      • fatima Says:

        I think this also has a lot to do with why some black feminists and other woc feminists are so quick to deny the reality of biology. I often see black liberal feminists argue saying “transwomen aren’t women” is equivalent to early white feminists excluding black women from feminism because of their belief that “black women aren’t women.” And here are “white feminists”* saying sex is a binary, it’s biological, and that’s why this extremely marginalized group (bc they’re thinking of black transwomen) “can’t have rights.”

        *Even nonwhite radfems are “white feminists of color.” LOL.

        But what is a woman? An adult human female. What is a man? An adult human male. Early white feminists said black women weren’t women because they didn’t believe black people were human like themselves. Radical feminists are saying men can’t be women because they are males. They are the definition of “man” and not the definition of “woman”; maleness necessarily precludes femaleness. And that’s interpreted as arguing to exclude (black) transwomen on the basis of “innate qualities” based on a binary like the white-black binary.

        But here’s where the difference between race and gender matters. Because while race isn’t a biological binary, sex is! The border between the two sexes is a bit fuzzy but that doesn’t negate the existence of the binary. I think the belief that the sex binary is oppressive in itself stems from the idea that the white-black race binary behind anti-blackness exists for the purpose of glorifying whiteness and contributes to upholding white supremacy over all non-whites.

        But women didn’t create women’s spaces or feminism to oppress men or transwomen. Men can’t join club Woman because society assigned them superhuman status, not because we evil females are trying to violently uphold some superhuman status our society granted us. Early white feminists were still white! Transwomen are still males and their forefathers built the system that violently oppresses us for their benefit.

        And our foremothers coped with their system by creating small pockets of space where our needs could take priority. And that includes spaces for woc or whatever other women’s communities. Now men are telling us the same safe spaces our foremothers created for us are all actually part of the cause of our oppression and we don’t really need them. Men are the same as they’ve always been.

      • fatima Says:

        I want to clarify that when I say “their forefathers” I mean white men created a system to benefit white men at a time when nonwhite men were not considered human. Now that all men are at least technically considered human, the ways the system advantages men over women may be applicable to MoC, however this will be mitigated by their race.

      • petuniacat00 Says:

        To Fatima, I like your analysis and I really like your chart. But which early feminists didn’t think black people were human? I’m pretty sure they all did. Which doesn’t mean they weren’t racist and looked down their noses at black people. I’m pretty sure only the slaveowners regarded black people is not human, the rest of the people in American society I don’t think so. Unless you meant regarded as inferior and thought black people should all be really grovelly. Yep that was almost universal in the 19th century. Of course Sojourner Truth told them off.🙂

        I have a housekeeping question. I’m still quite new to Internet and computer stuff. How did you get your picture to show up on the comment page and not just be a link? Thank you for any help with that.

      • GallusMag Says:

        image urls ending in .jpg generally autopost, but i have noticed a few anomalies, i’m not sure why.


  48. Ms. Tur…Miss Tur…Mister…Come on!

    • morag99 Says:

      “Miss Tur…Mister” Heh.

      That reminds me: last time MissTur was on Dr. Drew, we had a little discussion here around the problem with homophones. That was in regard to there being no difference between “Don” and “Dawn” — a dream come true for evil “transphobes” who want to “misgender” these rage-filled dudes without getting caught at it and beat up.


  49. If I were Shapiro, I would watch my back. In this video, a transwoman beats the holy crap out of guy much smaller than he is. The transwoman even kicks the smaller guy when he is on the ground. A black lady tries to stop it and says that is enough, but the transwoman comes back for more.

    http://www.queerty.com/rag-doll-beatdown-illustrates-why-one-should-never-say-thats-a-man-to-a-trans-woman-20111227

    Queerty is a queer/trans website, and they make excuses for this cowardly act of violence. Look at the size of the smaller guy, and look at the size of the cross dressing dude with long hair.

    Take it from YouTuber Milan Zanotti: If you or any of your friends are thinking of saying “That’s a man” aloud to a New York City trans woman, don’t—or you might end up tossed across a dirty subway floor and kicked against a wall by someone who has taken enough prejudice to fill three lifetimes.”

    They admit it’s nothing more than a beat down, then they rationale it by saying, “by someone who has taken enough prejudice to fill three lifetimes.” This is nothing more than a smack down where a larger male kicks a smaller guy.

    There is a reason why women don’t want these males in our restrooms, locker rooms, showers, women’s prisons, and women’s shelters.

    • Biscuit Says:

      That is horrible.

      Those two ladies who tried to stop that were pretty brave though.

      • Mochi Says:

        Enough prejudice to fill three lifetimes? Because they like to dress up and have “ladyfeels”?

        How about Afghani women just start beating their husbands to death. They must have suffered 10,000 lifetimes of oppression, by whatever metric that nimrod is using.

        Actually all women should just rise up and slay all men, by that standard. SCUM had the right idea. It’s justified. By all the oppression we have faced. Especially in these fundamentalist muslim countries. Women should start going around dumping battery acid on random men.

    • Akira Says:

      I clicked your link and read the comments, which were, for the most part, pretty darn disgusting. Why would anyone condone such an assault? They try and write it off as some kind of trauma that hit the breaking point, but how many of us, male and female, old and young, have trauma in our lives but cannot react aggressively because it’s rightly not condoned?

      Being transsexual does not give you a special right to assault someone. They should have to follow the same rules the rest of us have to follow.

      • Meg Says:

        I think it goes part and parcel to them being men, and feeling entitled to assault other people or touch them without consent.

        Such entitlement doesn’t allude to by “someone who has taken enough prejudice to fill three lifetimes.” It alludes to typical narcissistic male rage that’s become far too frequent in recent years.

    • WTF Is This Nonsense? Says:

      I read somewhere that there’s more than one trans there, that they were in a group. Not sure though.

  50. shediogenes Says:

    Meant to mention sooner, check your donations. (Quarterly bonus time again and of course that means a donation to you) Countdown to Fest sooo excited. Have a great August xoxo

  51. lin Says:

    ICYMI, I listened to Ben Shapiro’s radio show Friday afternoon and he had already shown video to authorities. I forget if it was police or prosecutor, but he says they agreed it was battery: touching someone in a way they do not welcome and threatening violence.

    Ben is a Harvard law grad, btw. He does not want to see this guy get away with threatening someone on live tv. He will press charges.

    Ironically if by some minuscule chance, Bob/Zoey gets jail time, he would probably be housed with women — for his safety! — assuming he doesn’t play a get out of jail free card.

    After Ben finished his segments, security escorted him to his car, just in case. Bob/Zoey was gone, but that would help prove that it was believed to be a credible threat.

    Ben also pointed out that if the tables had been turned, Ben would have been arrested and led out in handcuffs, unquestionably. Also it would have been all over the media, arrest or no arrest, but nobody wants to touch a sacred cow. It’s pretty amazing how nobody on the panel said a word to stand up to Bob/Zoey.

    • Mochi Says:

      lin, thanks for keeping us updated on this. I am so glad Shapiro is pressing charges. So, so glad.
      I really DO hope Tur get’s his comeuppance.

    • Peggy Luhrs Says:

      Probably no jail time for simple assault a misdemeanor.

    • mon Says:

      That is why it is important to press charges when trans touch us/ threaten us, or attempt or do assault us. There is a record, and a shown pattern of behavior. It will also make it more likely the next victim will have a successful prosecution.

  52. Mochi Says:

    Lol. MtT Keyobard warrior decries censorship “by internet feminists”. The irony.

    https://becausevagina.wordpress.com/

    • kesher Says:

      I love the complaint about “sockpuppets” when the two “Angelicas” are clearly Perduta. He couldn’t even be arsed to come up with a more unique sockpuppet handle.

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      That guy is fucking LOONEYTUNES. He’s also violently misogynistic and an MRA.

    • Meg Says:

      Any male who names his blog “because vaginas” obviously doesn’t identify as a woman. If he did, he’d take offense to a ladypart being disparaged as part of his sense of self. He would also identify with his countless foremothers who suffered horrible abuses and rapes generation after generation to placate the collective male ego. Even the most conservative of women know and sense these things. These men have no hope in the world to ever understand what it is to be female.

      • Mochi Says:

        Not only does he have some hilarious posts about his personal war against “misandry”, i dug around in there, found this…

        “The pedophile net allegations”
        Although I was performing in the male role model for my sons benefit, deep down I was always a transgirl and my only release for that was to play a female character in an online game.

        Alas out of pure spite and malice and unbeknown to me, anonymous “tip offs” had been made to the authorities alleging that I were a pedophile ring leader “masquerading as a woman to lure young boys into my net”. In reality I gather it was probably my malevolent brother Robin Scaife, in collusion with cyber stalker Amanda Rowe trying to discredit me.
        Of course no “victims” were ever identified and no evidence of me doing anything other than playing a fantasy game. The sum total of my ‘crime’ was in using a female character to appease my gender dysphoria, but by then they had well and truly phucked up any enjoyment I derived from playing.

        Here you can see disclosure that the complaint had been made about my XANGA blog site where all I had posted were some totally innocuous fantasy romances between virtual characters that I had created in that game. I was never given an opportunity to contest the accusations. the fact they say no further action will be taken is because they will have found absolutely not one shred of evidence to substantiate it. Yet what have these underhand cowards done to clear my name? Well fuck-all, as usual.”

        He includes a video of the game, and a redacted image of the order from Child Services.

        Seriously, what the hell dude, don’t put this stuff on the net.

      • Mochi Says:

        https:// becausevagina.wordpress.com/2015/07/21/lol-gendertrender/

        “lol @ gendertrender”

        July 21, 2015 Angelica Leave a comment

        “OMG – I never imagined there might be such shallow stayed bigots on this planet. So since this elitist cunt club has blocked me… Imma use this page to reply to them. Oh wait no.. I already replied to them on Google+ and then linked to it from my Facebook community… and if you wanna know what was said… you will have to follow the trail.”

        https:// becausevagina.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/lol-at-gendertrender.png

        Yep, “Transwomen Against Feminsm”. Says it all right there in the title😀

  53. Zemskull Says:

    Hi Gallus: Thank you for posting the video. Rolonda Watts said that 80% of the population knows a gay or lesbian person, but only 1% of the population knows a person “transitioning.” How can this be a correct statistic? Over the years I have worked, belonged to hobby organizations or been in online social groups with dozens of “transitioners,” and I’m not actively seeking them out.

    • GallusMag Says:

      Rolonda Watts is incorrect.

      • Zemskull Says:

        Hi Gallus: Thanks for the confirmation.

        Did you see the video of Alexis Arquette on VH1’s Surreal Life in which he started throwing things around in a bar? It aired in 2006, and was also disturbing.

  54. FedUpAnonbian Says:

    well clearly Bob/Zoey can take care of himself, but that hulking mountain of trans lady aside, we must never forget that it’s all about protecting the Menz, so much so that even FtT’s must protect the Menz, because in the end, that’s what will protect Everyone! (especially including FtTs!), or something: http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/07/17/op-ed-violence-against-trans-men-will-lessen-if-we-address-trans-womens-oppres?team=social

    • Mochi Says:

      “Naming transmisogyny as the root of all anti-queer violence, including violence against trans men, gives us all the opportunity and the incentive to work on dismantling this specific form of oppression”

      Wait….
      Naming transmisogyny as the root of all anti queer violence….. Like what, did it win a beauty pageant or something?

      “And the winner of this year’s “Ms. Root of all Anti-Queer Violence and Oppression goes to….

      “Transmisgyny!!!” *pig squeals* *applause*

      • dbrvnk Says:

        I think it’s just stealing from radfems as they always do. Feminist women recognised that the root of homophobia was misogyny generations ago. Despite claiming to hate feminists, transactivists are only too happy to lift concepts and knowledge from them with a few word substitutions in order to replace women’s oppression with transwomen’s oppression. I think on some level they want to literally incarnate women’s energy and creativity, to replace women completely. Raymond predicted this with pretty much 98.5% accuracy (the one thing she failed to predict is the female penis thing and ‘my body is female because I identify as a female’ but really, who could have? lol)—arguably, The Transsexual Empire is still incredibly relevant today, with the mainstreamization of ‘transsexually constructed lesbian-feminists’ and the like.

    • kesher Says:

      Wow. That was posted the day after this one: http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/07/16/op-ed-how-lgbt-communities-can-better-listen-trans-male-violence-survivors#.Vaf7RPzF1F4.facebook

      Heaven forbid the Advocate publish anything supporting FTTs or addressing the violence perpetrated against them (of course ignoring the elephant in the room of how many MTTs victimize FTTs) without publishing something immediately afterward whining about how hard MTTs have it.

    • Meg Says:

      It doesn’t surprise me that M2Ts are expecting women take up the slack for their personal agenda, because that’s what men do. Since recorded history men have pressganged women into paying deference and doing their shit work, so they can enjoy an elevated status at our expense.

      It just goes to show that wearing a dress does not a woman make. There’s still violence, entitlement, lack of boundaries, and abusive dynamics going on behind all those wigs and make up. Still men just being men.

      “Naming transmisogyny as the root of all anti-queer violence, including violence against trans men, gives us all the opportunity and the incentive to work on dismantling this specific form of oppression”

      Well, that’s rich. “This specific form of oppression” as if there’s no other forms that are an immediate emergency to people who were BORN into them and don’t have the luxury of changing their appearance at will. I suppose we’re supposed to put antisemitism, misogyny, racism, same sex rights and ethnic discrimination on the back burner so the fantasies of men be protected as a super special class, because a man’s fantasy is more important than other people’s lived reality – said every porn manufacturer ever.

      • kesher Says:

        Transmisogyny as a concept is such garbage. When trans women are treated badly for reasons outside of their control (i.e. when they’re not being judged for acting like shitty men), they’re treated badly for being perceived as women (which only happens for the small minority who “pass”) or for being perceived as gay men. They’re experiencing either misogyny or homophobia, not some bullshit bigotry concocted by a non-passing heterosexual man in a dress whose main experience of “oppression” is lesbians not wanting to sleep with him.

    • gchild Says:

      From the op-ed “…8 transwomen have been killed so far this year…” Wow. That is terrible and something SHOULD be done about it. And I have faith that raising awareness and transactivism will make a huge difference in the lives of transwomen in our culture. And if that will also save transmen, all the better!

      Also/and, more than 3 women (females) are killed each day in the U.S. This is July. Month 7 out of 12. There are about 30 days in a month… (Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief, Intimate Partner Violence)

      So can we keep working on this too? Can we have people who dedicate their passion and intellectual talent to saving female human beings without being told to STFU, ignored, yelled at, or snoozed on? Is there enough room in the entire observable universe to keep aggressively fighting for female lives? Or do we need to move to one of the infinite other universes?

      Can I do a search for “how many women killed so far…” and NOT have 99% of the results be about transwomen and black men?!

      Am I even allowed to THINK “630 > 8”?

      • ElleDriver Says:

        Whenever I read the “9 transwomen KILLED SO FAR THIS YEAR!11!” stat by the activists and their various shriekers, I think “Yeah. For women, that was called Tuesday.”

        Or Thursday. Or every other day of the year. To truly, truly contemplate the amount of violence inflicted on women and girls in this country on a daily (or annual) basis would be so fucking horrendously mind-boggling that it’s simpler for most people to ignore it.

        Cherry picking from the dozen or so cases of murdered transwomen- some of whom are actually just common variety gay men relabeled after death, most of whom were sadly engaged in high-risk sex work, nearly all of whom are people of color- and telling their tragic story is a far easier (and more click-worthy) endeavor. The white transactivist get to congratulate themselves on being oh so inclusive in their tokenism and jingle that collection can.

      • kesher Says:

        But what should be done about it?

        What trans activists always fail to mention is that the majority of MTTs who are the victims of homicide were not killed for being trans. They were killed for working in prostitution or for having romantic relationships with men or in the course of other crimes, such as property crime. Of the seven* MTTs killed in the U.S. this year, only two were potentially the victims of hate crimes, but, since the authorities haven’t caught the perpetrators, we can’t even be entirely sure of that.

        Certainly our society should be concerned with reducing the homicide rate, which would benefit everyone, but that’s not what trans activists want. They seem to want some sort of protective forcefield that will prevent MTTs from ever experiencing anything bad. Meanwhile, at best, they ignore crimes against women and claim we aren’t oppressed; at worst, they delight in it, just like any other male misogynist.

        *They’re still counting Bri Golec who was not trans.

      • kesher Says:

        I’ll also add that it’s really quite remarkable how little homicide MTTs face given how much they use the “trans holocaust” to try to shut us up. Most people really just don’t care about men doing weird things, especially white heterosexual men.

        I don’t doubt that MTTs of color face a lot of discrimination and violence since gay men of color face the same (and people tend to assume MTTs of color are gay, which they overwhelmingly are), but, in our culture, white men can get away with murder. Even someone who would be tempted to gay bash an MTT, I think, would be likely to give a white MTT a wide berth, not the least because white men are hypersensitive, crazy, and violent.

      • Mochi Says:

        “They seem to want some sort of protective forcefield that will prevent MTTs from ever experiencing anything bad.”

        Wow. Yes. I was thinking exactly this earlier today.

        These are mostly straight white men. They have come to expect a certain standard of treatment. They feel entitled to it, you can tell by how they rage when they are denied something most genuinely marginalized people NEVER expect.

        It’s like nothing bad can ever be allowed to happen to them. MtT’s who are mostly white straight males, with all the resources, power and status associated with it, have. So it’s no surprise how quickly they’ve been able to suddenly thrust themselves into center stage, dominating the world’s attention.

        I don’t really believe MtTs lose ANY of that so called male-privilege that supposedly doesn’t really exist. I think even when they are presenting as female, people still treat them like dudes. Dudes who want to dress up like a woman. That is NOT the same as actually being treated the way women are treated. No doubt it’s unpleasant, but really, I don’t want to hear about this ridiculous “trans-misogyny”. It’s absurd, it’s a rude mockery of feminism, in my opinion.

      • ElleDriver Says:

        Mochi:

        “I don’t really believe MtTs lose ANY of that so called male-privilege that supposedly doesn’t really exist. I think even when they are presenting as female, people still treat them like dudes. Dudes who want to dress up like a woman.”

        Exactly. And this video encapsulates that perfectly; everyone save Shapiro, was quick to capitulate to Tur’s authority– probably because he had just threatened to beat Shapiro– but that just serves to underline the whole fucked up situation.

        Does anyone think a cop is going to look at someone like Bob Tur, who’s built like a damn linebacker, and try to shut him down the way Sandra Bland was treated in her arrest video, dress or no dress? Of course not.

      • Mochi Says:

        @Elledriver

        These macho-alpha het dudes in drag… they say things like “we’re showing the world what women can really do, when they’re not busy feeling sorry for themselves, complaining about being oppressed and wasting their time becoming feminists!”

        The fact that these “allies” buy it makes me feel physically ill.

        All this does is erase the very real violence that females deal with, because of being female, because of indisputable biological and social realities. Sandra Bland somehow *** had it better than Bob Tur, because she was “cis”-gendered, and we all know trans is the worst of oppressions.
        It’s not surprising that many of these het white males are also racist, misogynist, conservatives.

        They are willing to claim people like Bob Tur are oppressed because there are 10 dead trans women (of color) this year. So this makes his violent outburst justified, because he is so oppressed, so so oppressed.
        It’s considered hate speech to even mention this…

        Madness…. it’s madness.


  55. @ChordsLikeThis

    “The violence displayed by these men against those who simply know reality is so scary. When I see a 6’4″ hulking trans male in the women’s washroom, all that’s going through my head is “What if he notices me noticing him and then decides that the act of noticing his maleness is an act of aggression, and that he should beat me up for it?” Women aren’t being paranoid about this, it’s a very real threat.”

    Well said, and this is what a lot of women are quietly thinking.

    This guy could really go off on someone, and I hope it isn’t a woman. Tur bragged that he was a macho man who has been in a dozen fights. Dudes have been trying to out macho each other since forever, but imagine Tur going off on a woman. It’s terrifying.

    “Bob wanted to get hitched almost from the start. Marika wasn’t in a hurry. Their sex life was fine. It was Bob’s anger that gave her pause. She knew he had been beaten as a child, but his flashes of temper scared her. They didn’t marry until she was pregnant with their daughter, Katy, in late 1983. ”

    http://www.lamag.com/longform/becoming-zoey-tur/2/#sthash.L4I8dttA.dpuf

    …Zoey told Moret, “Trying to erase 53 years of being a macho aggressive guy to trying to be a woman and this is greatest challenge of my life.” (*he is still violent and macho – nothing has changed)

    Moret said, “By most accounts you were great at being a guy. You were doing macho things. You were a maverick helicopter pilot. You were successful. You were a husband. You were a father. You were a tough dude.”

    “I was, yeah,” Zoey said. “I was in dozens of fights. Broken nose. It was an act, I was portraying a part.”

    Zoey’s wife, Merika says she never had a clue her husband was secretly yearning to be a woman.

    Merika told INSIDE EDITION, “He was a man on a mission, someone who knew what he wanted to do and get what he wanted. Very macho. Almost dismissive of women.”

    http://www.aol.com/article/2015/02/03/inside-edition-exclusive-chopper-bob-discusses-transition-from/21138690/

    • atranswidow Says:

      At this point I think my best comment is to link to this post by Awesome Cat…. https://autogynephiliatruth.wordpress.com/2015/07/20/narcissistic-pathology-and-personality-factors-in-gender-dysphoric-men/

      I

      • BadDyke Says:

        There are also recent articles such as:

        The Scientific World Journal
        Volume 2014 (2014), Article ID 809058, 7 pages
        http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2014/809058
        Personality Disorders in Persons with Gender Identity Disorder
        Dragana Duišin,1 Borjanka Batinić,1,2 Jasmina Barišić,1 Miroslav L. Djordjevic,3 Svetlana Vujović,4 and Marta Bizic3

        which concludes that:

        “The study has confirmed two hypotheses—the first that there are significant differences in presence of PDs in persons with GID compared to genderly congruent heterosexual persons and the second that there are significant differences in the presence of specific PDs in persons with GID with regard to biological sex.”

        PD is personality disorders, and GID is gender identity disorder.

        M2T has MORE disorders than straight blokes, AND more than F2T.

        Interesting to note that whilst claiming that SRS is wonderfully effective, none of their references is newer than 2006, and they DON’T cite the large, long-term swedish study from 2011 that states:

        “Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.”

        Politics aside (okay, not that I can REALLY do that, but I’ll just look at the CURRENT treatment situation) — seems to be that letting the current ‘brain sex’ trans cult-speak dominate the TREATMENT debate means that actual personality disorders, or other psychological issues can get ignored, and not treated. So we have people getting SRS who are then left in the lurch when that doesn’t magically solve all their problems. And if all else fails, then you have the belgian euthanasia option (Nancy Verhelst case).

        And of course the autogynephiles are another bunch altogether, since they don’t necessarily WANT genital SRS, just ordinary plastic surgery (well, ordinary inasmuch as they consider plastic boobs, facial restructuring and bone-breaking and carving as just ORDINARY aspects of constructed femininity, whether coming from the male or the female side!) — so as far as I know, they can get all the plastic surgery they can afford without any significant psychological counselling………………….

        I think that this is the sort of NON-evidence-based treatment that people like David Batty from the Guardian wrote about VERY carefully, but even then got it in the neck and compared to Julie Bindel. And dear Sarah Brown wishes that even his very careful reporting of actual abuses would stop, because as everyone trans KNOWS, SRS is wonderful:

        http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/01/11/comment-its-time-for-the-media-to-change-the-record-on-trans-healthcare/

        So, seems that even the little evidence that is out there, about personality disorders, about what happens after surgery, about what DOES happen to gender non-conforming kids, is (along with all those uppity feminists who WON’T shut up!), is being actively suppressed by the trans cult. And now they’re going after drag queens at a Pride event as well — I mean, dykes had been objecting for YEARS, but of course no one gave a fig. Now because it MIGHT offend the trans cult……………………

      • kesher Says:

        If SRS isn’t resolving anything, then insurance and government health systems shouldn’t be paying for it, which is what really threatens the trans cult.

    • Zemskull Says:

      Zur was in “dozens of fights”? I’m finding it hard to believe that he thought he was merely “portraying” the part of a man. Most men are not in dozens of fights.

      I’ve known several male and female MMA fighters, and the majority of them walk to and away from their bouts as good friends, or at least as respectful acquaintances. It’s a sport in their view, and they often practice and socialize together. I’m guessing that Zur didn’t ask Shapiro to go out for a beer after the Dr. Drew show.

      Zur got in those fights because he wanted to. He is more antagonistic than the average man.

  56. charlston Says:

    It is grim enough for women as it is. To say and believe a MTT abused someone just because of being abused themselves is scary and utterly untrue. Previous experience with my ex showed me how often he used that as an excuse after abusing me. I cannot imagine taking my reaction to his abuse of me out on anyone. In fact the last thing I want is more anger or to hurt anyone because I know how it feels. W e have more than enough to deal with already without giving trans people a get out of jail free card. This site below, Destroy the Joint is Counting Dead Women shows in real time whats happening in Australia right now if anyone wants to have a look. https://www.facebook.com/DestroyTheJoint

    • Oak and Ash Says:

      Although most–but not all!–abusers have, in fact, been abused, abuse alone does not an abuser maker. All the studies I’ve read on the topic show that the majority of those abused, whether as children or adults, do not go on to abuse others. Those who do tend to be more rigid (also common in personality disorders) and have less empathy than those who don’t.

      Which, in fact, also seems characteristic of many MTT’s.

    • charlston Says:

      Thats a new one .

    • hearthrising Says:

      “The government discovered the fraud when McDonald tried to claim her retirement benefits. The Social Security number for her female identify listed a birthday several years younger than she claimed to be, leading investigators to do some checking.” This transition to a YOUNG woman is a familiar feature.

      • Zemskull Says:

        Interesting that McDonald worked as a janitor. PBS Frontline had a show recently about the number of female janitors working on the night shift who are raped by coworkers.

    • michelle Says:

      from the article: “McDonald said she understood: “I’m just sorry that I did what I did.””

      Bullshit! he is only sorry he got caught.

      And to ensure that he remains in the Google cache into perpetuity, we need to remind everyone that Richelle McDonald is actually Richard McDonald, a lifelong fraud.

    • Oak and Ash Says:

      This is even better than the transabled otherkin collecting benefits I’ve been hoping for, since it connects the fraud directly to a man who claims to be a woman. Hearing about something like this should increase people’s skepticism of trans claims in the wake of Jenner’s Vanity Fair reveal, Elinor Burkett’s article in the Times, and Rachel Dolezal’s masquerade. I suspect, however, that more liberal media will be as silent about this case as they have been about Tur’s on-air assault of a fellow panelist.

      And I rather doubt that a woman who pulled off such a fraud would have had so many people working to keep her out of prison.

  57. jummy Says:

    There has been some concern expressed here about this issue’s effect of pushing radical feminists into an ‘aliance’ with conservatives.

    As a right-leaning moderate, let me say that the last thing radical feminists, conservatives and rational skeptics need is an alliance. An alliance would only result in each group sharing time in the ghetto progressives have set aside for conservatives. Radical feminists, who have greater standing to critisize the center-left, whose social situatedness is stronger, whose rhetoric is more disciplined on the matter, and whose bodies bear the scars of fighting this nonsense from its beginnings, need to stand up with a strong, independent, leftwing voice.

    If it is left to conservatives, they will screw it all up. The center-left mainstream has designed it so that the only opposition to transgender ideology allowed or assumed is from the Christian fundamentalist right. Even they have failed to step into this role for fear of being accused of a fresh brand of bigotry as we enter an election year. Progressives will only allow conservative, specifically Theo-political critisism of transgender ideology because those voices are unpopular and easily marginalized as irrational and hateful.

    You may agree that they are, which is all the more reason for you to neither forge nor acknowledge an ‘alliance’ with the right. I say all this because, as an atheist, I’ve observed the center-left’s effort to frame transgenderism’s opponents to exclude voices which recognize transgenderism as abject irrationalism akin to, rather than in contrast to religion and other forms of irrationalism. I also know how deeply ingrained in the radical left is the idea of solidarity and the presentation of a united front. What I’m suggesting is that you forget all that and instead develop a line of rhetorical defense against being accused of allying with the right. You must deny the right, noting the capitulation of Rick Santorum and the professed conservatism of Bruce Jenner. You must counter-accuse and frame transgenderism as rightwing. Condemn the right as actively as you condemn the transgenderists.

    But most importantly, radfems must make their stand loudly and effectively. “RWNJ”s can’t do it. Only rationalist leftists can.

    • jummy Says:

      One important facet radfems can bring to the public conscience is to dispell the popular misapprehension that the MtF adgitators we know are gay. The term, ‘autogynophile’ is unknown to most. The distinction between early and late MtFs is something conservatives are likely to handle clumsily, if one can imagine them being at all concerned about the distinction.

      It is, however a powerful distinction, as most people confuse the Bob Turs and Bruce Jenners with Jared Leto’s sympathetic character from Dallas Buyers’ Club. If they knew that MtF adgitators are mainly heterosexual men who retain their tackle for sex with women, and the attendant absurdities of “female penises” and the Cotton Cieling, your typical soccer mom would have a whole different perspective on the issue.

      This, I reiterate, is a dimension that so-called ‘social’ conservatives – currently the only voices of dissent allowed by the center-left media – are unlikely to handle inteligently if at all.

      • Susan Nunes Says:

        The thing feminists and others concerned about this is to make clear women CANNOT be “autogynephiles.” Sometimes you will hear the trans make arguments that women are. However, to be similar to the men’s disorder, women would have to masturbate to images of themselves as MEN, not as their own biological sex of female. Women just don’t do that.

      • conn suits Says:

        Jummy, I love your comments! The strategy you suggest is a good one. Plus we need to think strategically. This Sex Change Ideology is as you say completely dependent on people being deceived about what it is. Autogynephillia! Who knew?! Did not see more than the first 20 minutes of Dallas Buyers Club. Could not take the torrents of homophobic jabber from McConaughey’s character. So I didn’t get to the Jared Leto part. But yeah, soccer moms’ lukewarm support for this whole transgender thing definitely hinges on the pre-1990s version of a transsexual, viz they had their testes removed. Especially to people who see those sex changed people as weak and wimpy cuz ball-less, the idea we would be afraid to have them in the woman’s washroom can seem totally ridiculous. But it’s not them.

        Also very trenchant observation on your part about the mainstream media denying the story oxygen. Yep. Just as it so often does with violence against women stories. Now they’re doing it with Violence By Misogynists regardless of who the target is. 😖

    • Meg Says:

      There has been some concern expressed here about this issue’s effect of pushing radical feminists into an ‘aliance’ with conservatives.

      When and where exactly? Cite with links to specific comments, please.

      • wristactionadmin@gmail.com Says:

        That’s the spirit.


      • I have no problem with forming an alliance with political opponents. If any of their children were hurt in my presence, I would do everything I could to take care of that child and I’m confident they’d reciprocate. Transgenderism hurts children, so of course I would ally with conservatives to help kids.

        I work with mostly conservative, straight men. I take them at face value, and enjoy working with them. Even knowing that I’m a radfem lesbian, they’ve demonstrate integrity, warmth and good humor. I strongly disagree with them, but conservatives are not necessarily bad people.

        And would it be so bad if an alliance got us to know one another better, and realize we are, to quote Dr. Maya Angelou, “more alike than unalike”…? To me, this is more aligned with what a matriarchal society would be like.

    • Meredith Says:

      I get this sinking feeling that you are right that Republican men will screw it all up, jummy. But as a Catholic woman I’ve learned a lot about transgender shenanigans from this blog, and I’m not the only conservative woman who now sympathies with radfems.

      I would like to join forces with the other readers of GenderTrender, but I realize that this might do more harm than good. The mainstream Left is accusing you all of sounding “just like the religious right,” so the last thing you need is the right adopting your talking points. But this is already happening. In the last year conservative media has become aware of the TERF wars, which is how I found this blog. Some of the right wing men just think it’s a hilarious “catfight”; others get it. I would say all of the women get it.

      At the end of the day, I am on Team Woman (as an MRA accused me, lol). As more conservative women find out about “female penis” and the cotton ceiling, their heads will explode as mine did, and I think they will become more sympathetic to lesbians and radfems. Right now, conservatives are mostly unaware that there is a clash between lesbians and transwomen. We are only shown a unified LGBTQ in the media, so we just assume that gay and trans are one movement. Conservatives are also unaware that most of these MTF still have their junk. Many religious people want to be sensitive to trans people, and they accept the “born in the wrong body” sob stories at face value.

      I think the only way we can win is to unite as WOMEN, whether we are on the left or right. Women know that Fallon Fox should not be sending women to the hospital. Women know that a man should not be the “Working Mother of the Year.” Women know that it is bullshit when we are told to shut up and get over ourselves when we are frightened by a man in the locker room. It’s like these lefties think that rape is no biggie now that “everyone” is on the pill and abortion is legal. As a person who does not want to use either of those things, I am especially frightened and outraged by this callous disregard for my safety.

  58. Saba Says:

    It’s so odd seeing a typical dude dick waving power exchange performed by someone in women’s clothes calling themselves a woman. Calling the reporter a little man and the dominant male neck touching move. Really disturbing to watch.

    I never thought much about transgender people beyond everyone should be what they want ie what progressives usually advocate. I suppose I thought they were all kind of feminine and gay and had been obviously girlish since childhood. The Jenner interview was really disconcerting for me for several reasons and I went looking online for people who felt the same way. I am kind of surprising/disappointing my family, my husband, mother, and sisters who are confused about where my change in views is coming from. The stuff I saw online when I went looking for more information, like about Fallon Fox and the rapey cotton ceiling thing is really upsetting though.

    • Meg Says:

      I will never understand men and their bizarre masculinity rituals. They’re obsessed with hierarchical domination calling each other code words like “alpha” or “beta” or “delta” or “omega” as if there’s no other problems or responsibilities in the world to address than whose chest puffs out the furthest.

      Yeah, the cotton ceiling. It’s disgusting to me that trans can get away with talking about that and are not perceived as sexually coercive. Understand sex requires consent would mean that there is no cotton ceiling any more than there’s a “boxer ceiling” for fat or homely women to break through to date traditionally attractive men (sadly, even thin women are beleaguered with advances from male remnants of evolution, no hope for any woman at all IMO).

    • gchild Says:

      @saba
      I understand what you are going through in terms of your family and friends.

      But when you realize that most transwomen are het males, you can’t ignore the implications. This is why transwomen, especially heterosexual male trans, fight so hard to be seen as women/female (the blatant absurdity of female brain, female penis, cotton ceiling!). They KNOW society will not allow them to terrorize women as males, not transexual males, nor transvestite males.

      But as women (transwomen are women!!!!), they can freely do so.

      • Saba Says:

        Yes what you are saying does make sense. We are all hetero (I stay home with my three kids and am pretty standard progressive in my views) and I know when I talk about some of the things I’ve been learning online they are wondering if it’s transphobic like homophobic is, nobody wants to be seen as hateful and I don’t HATE transwomen but that cotton ceiling thing was so coercive. You remember that Lifetime movie the Gwen Araujo story? Kind of embarrassing to admit but I think that’s where me and my husband got a lot of our views on transwomen from, we saw that when we were young together. I never thought of transwomen as being big aggressive hetero men who could father children and live as men for decades, and it puts a new cast on the idea of them in women’s prisons and shelters then I had before.

      • southwest88 Says:

        Got a Twitter reply from Tur after I tweeted about how women are not allowed to attack people just because we feel insulted and disrespected. He told me how “sorry he was for me” and suggested that I learn to stand up for myself. Twitter being what it is, I told him that my ability to manhandle people and get away with it was not up to his.
        So, Tur is trying to play the plucky little lady who stood up against the evil man Shapiro. Funny, I have stood up for myself many times in my life. I have gotten fired from jobs for it, blackballed in school, harassed even more, and physically assaulted. But, hey, thanks Mr. Tur, if we little ladies would all just be more plucky like you, all our problems would go away.
        Being mansplained at is old hat to me, but still new to being transplained at by a man claiming to be a woman!
        Still looking to see this story on the mainstream neolib sites (Jezebel, Huffpost, Shakesville, etc.) but they seem to have no desire to cover a story where the man claiming to be a woman is being vile and threatening.

  59. Mortadella Says:

    There have been so many good posts here in the past two days. I think Jimmy’s right about doubting conservatives’ ability to handle this issue intelligently — they don’t like gender non-conformity, and mix this shit up with their dislike of gays.

    I absolutely believe educating people on the concept of autogynephilia helps…I taught this concept in some of my critical thinking classes. Students were quick to prove their common sense.
    But, you know, people (especially in an anonymous mob) like men more than women, the excuses comes trotting out like crazy. It’s an irrational response to pomo bullshit.

    Soporificat posted:
    “The handmaidens think the MtT surely must love women, otherwise how could they possibly want to be one? So, they think: here is a man who will love and understand what it means to be a woman! Finally, I can direct my resources to a man without being taken advantage of…”

    Right there. This is spot on. Ever know a low-self esteem woman/girl who was obsessed with gay men? I have. They wouldn’t walk across the street to throw a glass of water on a woman who has caught fire, they’re so focused on the male of the species. Patriarchy causes this kind dysfunctional psychology. It’s the nurture meme run amok.
    The autogynephiliacs, these mostly straight, white men, need to be represented as they truly are — pornsick misogynists who think womankind is void of humanity and nothing but wanking material. If there were sex bots, I don’t think there’d be so many of them. They basically want to own a female body real or fake…well, preferably fake. When you learn everything you know from porn, reality becomes an inadequate experience.


  60. @jummy,

    All good points….

    “There has been some concern expressed here about this issue’s effect of pushing radical feminists into an ‘aliance’ with conservatives.”

    From what I’ve gathered from reading all the posts over the last couple of years is that the majority of the women here are liberal to moderate leaning. That is just my impression.

    There has never been an alliance between radical feminists and transgender activists. It’s not even a radical feminist issue. It’s a human rights and women’s issue. This effects all women, liberal, conservative, moderate, all races and ethnicities. As I recall from a post months ago, one middle aged married woman from a conservative red state said she had been bullied and called a “TERF” online and had no idea what they were talking about.

    • Meg Says:

      I don’t think the comment was meant to address an alliance with trans, but an alliance with the right. This goes against everything I know about radical feminism, one of the main issues radfems talk about is that women have no allies on the right OR the left. The right restricts abortion rights while the left mandates sexual contact with men to be seen as relevant. There is no room, on either side, for women to tell men NO, to tell them to stop raping us or at the very least to stop expecting us to perform for them (sexually, reproductively, or even politically). Men collude with one another to keep women as a sex class at the mercy of men.

      I don’t understand where this “alliance from the right” is coming from. Men speak of each other this way, then presume we think the same way. Bzzzt. Wrong. Isn’t this what Andrea Dworkin was accused of because she managed to help craft anti-pornography legislation with a Republican? That’s not forming an alliance. If it were between two men it would be called “bipartisan politics.” She was hardly a right winger by any stretch of the imagination.

      With that said, being that many men are skeeved by the idea that transwomen might get away with passing themselves off as women; presuming that radical feminists are going to take the helm in gender politics in such a way that both alleviates men’s homophobia and lifts the burden from men to dismantle their own oppressive structures feels a lot like shouldering yet more of society’s unpaid labor. How about MEN do something about what MEN do, and ask MEN to deal with the deeds MEN have done, being that women already do enough to keep society from falling a part at the seams? I’m so done with men shoving chips in their mouths and barking orders at me from a distance.

      • jummy Says:

        You are correct that I was referring to the anti-pornography efforts.

        All I meant to point out is that the mainstream, center-left media has designed to marginalize dissent on this matter as rightwing and rooted in hate and ignorance and for that reason radical feminists should proceed with a strong counter-narrative to the facile hand-waving about feminists being “the other side of the coin”, as it were, that we saw used to deflate feminist efforts to reform pornography.

        You may recall that the “Jesse Helmes is your boooyyfrieeend!” jeering resulted in a generation of feminists defining themselves as “sex-positive” and protesting that feminists aren’t anti-sex.

      • Meg Says:

        You are correct that I was referring to the anti-pornography efforts.

        Good lord. Andrea Dworkin has been dead for ten years, and it boggles my mind that there’s STILL people making ignorant comments about her work; STILL framing it as an alliance with the right, and STILL assuming that a woman’s opinion on sex is the only thing that makes or breaks feminist theory? On a radical feminist blog at that?

        Because you didn’t post links above to show that people at this site were open to an alliance with the right, I’m going to assume that you don’t have any proof to back up that statement. So then it needs to be pointed out that such assumptions are completely groundless and based on old stereotypes held against Andrea Dworkin.

        radical feminists should proceed with a strong counter-narrative to the facile hand-waving about feminists being “the other side of the coin”, as it were, that we saw used to deflate feminist efforts to reform pornography.

        I’m not sure what you’re trying to do here. I can only speculate that you are writing this because some feminists here have openly stated they have a non-violent position as far as politics go; and you are hoping our frustration is funneled to the left, as if it already isn’t. I’ve already pointed out that radical feminism critiques both sides. Whether or not you think it’s strong enough is beside the point. We aren’t dancing bears at a circus to perform for anyone.

        Besides, there’s already a framework going on here: talking about Real Life(tm). Facts. Objective and repeatable data as well as six thousand years of recorded history to demonstrate how men have owned women, and have systematically exploited our labor to their benefit. The presumption that we don’t have a strong enough narrative for men is the presumption that feminists should engage in politics in such a way that is not authentic – that we should be willing to be violent in tone, manipulative in strategy, and develop party lines that may or may not require loopholes of logic. Incidentally, all that resembles male politics as well as transpolitics, not feminism. Feminists like Andrea Dworkin have always said speaking the truth is power, not “developing strong narratives” which may or may not be truthful. Beside that point, when have women ever been respected for developing a strong narrative? What makes you think women will be listened to now – simply because men feel threatened by other men? Welp, that won’t last long in the event men no longer need our narratives for their politics, and life goes on business as usual to keep us from political office and economic equality.

        I’m also offended at the idea that anyone would think they can come here, and rally me to their political strategy as if my time, energy, or political loyalties are a free resource up for grabs. No, I’m not going to engage in conflict with mainstream feminists, just because men can’t be bothered to deal with other men. No, I’m not going to allow myself to be thrown in the line of male violence because men believe I’m an acceptable sacrifice to reduce the risk of harm to themselves. No, you aren’t entitled to expect me to protect you from the institution of gender, which men as a class have built, defined, and redefined over the course of human history to oppress women. Yes, gender cuts both ways – don’t assume that feminist objectives should change or be re-purposed because men are now realizing that they, too, can be disadvantaged by it. That’s what feminists have been saying all along. Feminism IS the theory of everything explaining why politics are flawed, because they are male dominated and require people being forced into social roles to keep society from falling a part at the seams.

        So, rather than demand that feminists change their approach to suit your agenda, how about you support feminists who have already done the heavy lifting on our own behalf? We never waited for the men to rescue us, so why assume we exist to rescue men, especially since it’s men who have continually suppressed feminist politics, and transpolitics is the result of that suppression and enforced gender values. Men wouldn’t feel entitled to identify as women if men’s bullshit identity issues surrounding masculinity were allowed to be resolved by feminists a long time ago. But NO, men decided that men must be MEN, and if they aren’t MEN by definition of violent male standards which are first and foremost abusive to women, they must be labeled as “pussies” or otherwise classed as mere women and so goes forth the juggernaut of transpolitics where anyone can be anything, on a whim and no matter how temporarily. MEN defended rape culture, and are now realizing that rape culture is going to affect them too. Prison rape? Wouldn’t happen if men understood dynamics of partnerships and alliances without domination/submission. Trans rape? Wouldn’t happen if differences between men and women and the history of women’s enslavement to men were actually respected and the identity of “woman” wasn’t up for grabs. Male-on-male violence? Wouldn’t keep happening if men would learn how to define themselves as men without the need to be violent. But then, feminists were never listened to, feminist politics were suppressed, and now I’m sitting here to share HERstory with a bunch of men who are afraid of being raped by other men – a legitimate fear, but a fear women as a class have known and understood for far too long.

      • Meredith Says:

        It’s really a shame that Andrea Dworkin was cast out by the “cool” feminists for working with a Republican… religious arguments against porn and prostitution have really matured and synced up with radfem arguments:

        https://www.lifesitenews.com/static/former-porn-star-porn-was-the-worst-darkest-thing-ive-ever-been-involved-in.html

        This is an anti-abortion site, and you will no doubt disagree with many of its stances. But this interview with a former porn actress wouldn’t be out of place on a radfem blog.

    • southwest88 Says:

      Can’t ever see a formal alliance between the mainstream right wing and radfems, no way. But I do work and live among a lot of right wing/religious women and they have many of the same concerns about the safety of women and children around men who are so fixated on a pornified version of “woman” in their heads that they claim to be women themselves. Tur’s behavior on that show disturbed them, too.
      It would not bother me in the least if these women pointed out to their right wing friends that even radical feminist women are not buying what these dudes are selling and are opposed to men being in women’s private spaces. If the right wing women want to oppose this trans agenda on safety and “morality” and I oppose it on safety and respect for truth, other people can observe that there are at least two sets of reasons for why trans agenda SHOULD be opposed.

  61. Secret Serval Says:

    Nobody can be permitted offend men in dresses, even other men in dresses. Because of feeeeeelzzz
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/drag-queens-banned-from-pride-event-because-they-may-offend-transgender-people-10403198.html

    • Akira Says:

      Wow. So, basically, seeing drag queens perform makes MtTs feel bad, so now drag queens cannot perform. I’d say to those drag queens that they should show up anyway! Perform their hearts out, and if they get attacked by trans’women’, record it. Show the world just how far that kind of intolerance goes.

      The sad thing is, the people organizing that parade believe in gender fluidity. So, seeing men who are confident enough in who they are that they can appear in dresses and put on a show isn’t gender fluidity?

      When did making the jump from one binary to another count as fluidity? It reeks of putting straightjackets on the human race to me!

      • GallusMag Says:

        I’d like to see a Busby Berkley conga line of drag queens all in Caitlyn Jenner Gender-Journey drag. Yanno to honor “her” bravery and all. High kicking and singing in his distinctive new post-stroke duck-lip slur. Maybe that would pass muster.

      • Meg Says:

        When did making the jump from one binary to another count as fluidity?

        I’ve been asking the same thing. Trading one role for another role juxtaposed against it is just a trade off WITHIN the binary. To exist outside of it requires ambiguity between the two frameworks – something trans don’t want to do as they want to be known for conforming to their ideas of what “male” and “female” constitute with no room for living in between them.

      • backyard Says:

        many women have been offended by drag throughout the history of it being performed publicly in mixed-sex spaces (e.g. Gay/Lesbian/ queer events), but that NEVER bothered anyone… now these men’s fees are hurt by it and suddenly it’s all “STOP NOW!” ….

    • morag99 Says:

      Aww, I thought this dispute between gay men in dresses with heterosexual men in dresses was settled last year?

      “You know it’s true / I’m not that different from you / so let’s show the world what we can do / I think that we should be friends … ”

    • Bea Says:

      Well that’s because drag queens are proud, feminine males who don’t deny the reality of their biological sex, and are often good-natured. It’s incredibly threatening to the mentally ill het dudes with the delusion that the desire to femulate means “lady brain.”


  62. @ Meg

    “I don’t think the comment was meant to address an alliance with trans, but an alliance with the right.”

    “There has never been an alliance between radical feminists and transgender activists.”

    Yes, my bad…..I was multi-tasking at the time, eating, reading, trying to type, cat on lap, kids running around…forgive my clumsy grammar and typos.

    I meant to say, “There has never been an alliance between radical feminists and the right.”

    I do, however, firmly believe that feminism has nothing to do with what transgender activists are trying to force on women (males accessing women’s restrooms, locker rooms, males on women’s sports teams, etc.). Transgender is not compatible with feminism on multiple levels. Feminism is about the liberation of the female sex. I have never considered the explosion in everything “gender” and transgender as classic liberalism. What we see today is neoliberal, post modern and is part of the backlash against feminism. Bruce Jenner is a rich white Republican, or at least used to be Republican when Reagan was cutting AIDS funding. A rich old white, heterosexual man bought “womanhood” via facial feminization, tracheal shave, plastic surgery, etc. (and an ESPY award to boot), and the left eats it up. People would be surprised at how many well to do business executives secretly cross dress. They wear Brooks Brothers suits during the day, and get a sexual thrill from wearing panties when the mood strikes them. Autogynephilia has been around for ages.

    As for the HRC and Gay Inc, I can say with absolute certainty that any time transgender rights (men’s rights) conflict with the interests of girls and women, women will lose every single time. They might be able to use some of their corporate money (more rich white men) to buy off a few naive handmaidens, but Gay Inc. isn’t looking out for the interests of women.

    Apparently, the HRC and Gay Inc. can’t grasp the idea that sterilizing children with GnRH agonists and/or cross gender hormones could be viewed as human rights abuse.

    @Meg,

    “This goes against everything I know about radical feminism, one of the main issues radfems talk about is that women have no allies on the right OR the left. The right restricts abortion rights while the left mandates sexual contact with men to be seen as relevant. There is no room, on either side, for women to tell men NO, to tell them to stop raping us or at the very least to stop expecting us to perform for them (sexually, reproductively, or even politically). Men collude with one another to keep women as a sex class at the mercy of men.”

    Spot on!

    I do believe that we could be living in one of the most misogynistic periods of modern history, and we can’t see ourselves for what we have become.

    It is really spooky now because no one on the left or right is looking out for the interests of women. On the left we have “50 Shades of Grey”, an explosion in pornography, any and everything related to kink as sexy (BDSM, water sports, you name, it), hyper-femininity being forced on girls, an alarming increase in FTM “transitioning”, and transgender rights (middle age males) shredding the rights of women. Read Gail Dines, “Pornland”. Women are literally being tortured in pornography, and sex trafficking is more common today than it was thirty years ago. What is the left’s reaction? There have been a few articles coming from the left expressing mild outrage, but they turn around and brand women like Gail Dines as silly old prudes. As for the right, we all know how the right has treated women.

    • Meg Says:

      Hi Skylark, I just wanted to say that I wasn’t trying to correct you, and that my tone was more or less expressing my own frustration at the way radical feminism has been framed as a right vs left issue, long after everyone has had the opportunity to read what radical feminists had to say for themselves.

      I agree that transpolitics don’t have anything to do with feminist politics. Transpolitics are male identity politics, wherein women who identify as/with men can be actively pro-male, and men who want to supplant women can assert themselves as an authority of what women should be like. It’s just another round of gender construction and male dominated politics, only in cherry flavored lip gloss. It’s the same pro-pornography bdsm crap where humiliating oneself for the sexual gratification of men is upheld as the only valid expression of sex.

      Is it any wonder that MEN have accused feminists of being anti-sex, when THEY are the ones who make sex an act that is both demeaning and inhumane? If the sex act weren’t weaponized, women wouldn’t receive rape threats for asserting their own humanity. It really is that simple.

      • morag99 Says:

        “Is it any wonder that MEN have accused feminists of being anti-sex, when THEY are the ones who make sex an act that is both demeaning and inhumane? ”

        Yes. Say it again and again! They define what is sex, in the same way they define what is a woman. And these definitions aren’t dead words in a book or an airy idea or sick fantasy in the male mind — they are enacted, embodied and enforced in the material world. The more demeaning, painful, humiliating and inhumane, the greater their arousal and power.

        So when we say: “No, we women are human,” they must reply: “then you are anti-sex.” I mean, they MUST say this. They are telling the truth about this. Not the truth about us, but about themselves. This is male logic, and it has internal consistency. Their argument that we are anti-sex is not sound, of course, but it is valid according to their own constructs. I don’t understand why so many women try so hard to tell men they that they are mistaken; or why so many women try to prove men “wrong” by enthusiastically and “defiantly” fucking them.

        Asserting our autonomy and humanity, as you say, is an offence punishable by rape (i.e., by “sex”). Women’s humanity — our assertions and refusals — IS a crime against men, because it threatens the sex act, and therefore masculinity. Without women’s sub-human status, both would disintegrate. In exactly the same way, our autonomy and humanity also causes “transwomen” to fear that they will quite suddenly cease to exist. They accuse of murder when we insist that Woman exists ONLY outside of their frameworks/identities.

    • backyard Says:

      the left is pretty oblivious, although Chris Hedges had a pretty good article and is a rare lefty male who gets it: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_whoredom_of_the_left_20150308

  63. Susan Nunes Says:

    Doesn’t Tur have a lawyer to tell him to keep his big mouth shut? He keeps digging a deep hole for himself:
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/07/22/transgender-reporter-zoey-tur-triples-down-on-threats-against-ben-shapiro/

    • gaydude50 Says:

      Haha. Who knew Breitbart reporters had such a sense of humor:

      “So maybe that’s the battery,” Tur suggested. “Maybe a woman touched him, and put her hand on his shoulder or the back of his neck, and that’s prescribed in the ultra-Orthodox religion, maybe that’s the battery he’s talking about.”

      Jewish law does not prohibit a man from touching another man.

      • Annoyed Bi Chick Says:

        Not to mention that Ben Shapiro is obviously (by visual cues) not ultra-Orthodox. Tur apparently knows about as much about Orthodox Jews as he knows about keeping his hands to himself. Seems like he should get out more. Maybe he’d find more interesting things to do than pretending he’s a laydee.

        I hate to stand up for Ben Shapiro or anybody who writes for Blightfart. What a crisis of conscience.

      • nonny Says:

        @ gaydude/annoyedbichick- yeah, he’s not ultra-orthodox- and what a weird thing for them to reference! Shapiro is gross af politically but the fact that people in the media are explicitly pointing out that he’s Jewish and in the same breath that he’s small, boyish, wimpy, sexually weak etc. is shady as hell. Why not just suggest curb-stomping him? OH WAIT, THEY DID.

        Side note: I know some ppl are surprised that right-wing/religious Shapiro is recognizing, you know, science, but: “religious” really, really does not automatically equal “anti-science creationist wingnut.”

        Say what you will against patriarchal religions (and say it loud, bc it needs to be said) but they don’t all actually believe that the world is 3,000 years old & dinosaurs aren’t real or whatever, lol. It makes arguments against their institutional practices that much weaker when one doesn’t know the very basics. /rant

      • kesher Says:

        My understanding is that ultra Orthodox Jewish men aren’t really supposed to speak to women they don’t know. Although, in that case, Tur is still fine since he’s not a woman.

  64. petuniacat00 Says:

    To skylarkphillips, I agree that all those things you describe are happening. 😖 But all that 50 Shades of Gray crap and treating porn is sacred *eye roll* isn’t “the left”. That’s just the mass media. Which isn’t the left unless the left is just every single thing that isn’t the Tea Party Movement. A lot of people in the media seem to enjoy pretending that people like BDSM types are a despised minority that they, the media people, are being terrifically heroic by treating them as normal. Like it really did stand out in the 80s to treat gay people as just people. I think that’s the template for a lot of this stuff. And of course when you slot in BDSM types and porn as “the persecuted group” then you risk absolutely nothing. And still get to think of yourself as the second coming of Dr. King. The people who do this have never had any understanding of left/ progressive politics at all. Their political engagement is exactly as real as the autogynophiles’ womanhood. 😊

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      Well said. It’s more about being one of the “cool kids” to agree with that kind of crap. They don’t even think about those things and the implications they have for women because they’re in such a hurry to be “hip”.

    • Dogtowner Says:

      Who and what are “The Left”? I know hardly any leftists, and the ones I know do not support porn or prostitution. Are people confusing liberalism with left-wing politics? The liberals I know could no more be described as leftists than the right-wingers I know. Liberals love patting themselves on the back for their tolerance, but I have never seen any genuine opposition to a violent, misogynistic society by liberals. And I’ve yet to figure out what the hell “progressives” are; I thought it was just a newer term for liberal.

  65. goomba Says:

    Why would he be going home in an ambulance? Aren’t ambulances for taking people to the hospital?

  66. Radical Grandma Says:

    Never heard of “Fallon Fox” (oh, the names they choose!), and came upon this article–although I despise libertarians with the heat of a thousand suns, also, since I truly think those of that ilk are behind a lot of what is happening in this “trans” movement. He broke the orbital bone of a female opponent. Get these brutes out of women’s sports before someone is killed.

    http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/transgender-mma-fighter-destroys-female-opponent/

    This comment is so spot on:

    “How did they allow this in the first place? She was born as a man, she has the genetics and DNA of a man. Not to mention the strength. Idiots these days think just because someone has their private parts removed they’re automatically the opposite sex. That’s not the case, they just end up being penis-less men because changing your sex is impossible. People need to understand that being transgender is simply having a mental illness. Do some research, it’s in DSM5, the book psychologists use under the name Gender Dysphoria. But proven to be a mental disorder or not, it’s still obvious. Someone who isn’t comfortable with the sex they were born with, approaches surgeons to permanently butcher an otherwise perfect body, and begs for synthetic hormones that clearly don’t belong in their body is clearly not mentally normal. This person is still a man and shouldn’t be in the ring with a woman just because HE has a mental disorder that makes him think he’s supposed to be a woman. Call me insensitive and mean, I’m just telling the facts here.”

  67. Heraclitus'sCleanYetPruneyFeet Says:

    As a left-leaning guy (okay, commie) I read a fair amount of media that either has a basis in, or is sympathetic to, feminism. If pressed, I would call myself a feminist (I say “if pressed” because I find many men who loudly and preemptively proclaim they are feminists to be kinda dodgy.) Anyway, lately I’ve noticed there are glaring inconsistencies inherent in some of the ideas championed by progressive/feminist media which, as far as I can tell, are irreconcilable. Either these ideas are reworked to fit the theory or the theory, aka, feminism, goes. The main two that rub me the wrong way are:

    1. The sex-postive (literally selling your body is great, isn’t it?! it’s all the rage in Nigeria I hear…) and pro-porn stuff, which basically fetishises choice and really sounds no different than neoliberal ideology. Yes, you too can be Choosie McChoice and free and independent (yet powerless.)
    2. The pro-trans stuff which, if one gives even a moment’s thought to its implications, seems to–no, DOES–fly in the face of the fundamentals of feminist feory (sorry, couldn’t resist.)

    It’s really been quite mind-blowing how vociferously these two ideas have been propounded by people claiming that they represent feminist essentials. This is especially true regarding the trans stuff which seems to me almost a kind of anti-feminism. I mean, if men can be women then on what basis are you even forming your ism, you numpties!? One might just as soon admit that horses are women too. In their naive attempt to be “inclusionary”, liberal feminists have rendered the term entirely useless. Feminism as it exists in the mainstream really is some deferential and docile status-quo affirming bullshit. This is exactly why it’s so popular at the moment.

    Anyway, all this blabbering is really just a roundabout way of saying thank god for places like this. A place where feminism is logically and internally consistent?! Whodathunkit?! Why, it’s almost like the word has a real meaning!

    • Dogtowner Says:

      I’d rather have horses claim to be women than these horrible, violent, ugly human males. But that’s what’s great about other animals: they generally know who they are unless humans have fucked them up so badly they have to relearn how to be dogs, lions, etc.

      • mon Says:

        But what about those horses who paint stripes on themselves and then sneak into zebra herds? You’re right, they don’t. Just XY born males don dresses and try to slip into our private showers, dressing rooms, and bathrooms. At least horses painted with stripes would kinda sorta look like zebras. These men are more like a lion painting on stripes and trying to sneak into a zebra herd. The zebras know it, and we know it. Danger.


  68. […] Posted on July 24, 2015 by petuniacat00 Don’t know what this is about? This will explain it https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/07/17/dr-drew-show-violent-trans-activist-zoey-tur-grabs-pa… […]

  69. Resistance Says:

    @ Jummy- Sometimes those on the right will agree with certain aspects of radical feminism like being against porn ect. They are against it for different reasons than us, but if they are actively campaigning against it that is not a bad thing, regardless of what other differences we have. I’m a socialist, but the male left supports feminist issues for its own purposes that are different from womens also. They may appear to support gays & lesbians, but that is only as they see it as a lifestyle choice, like “don’t criticise my sexual practices & i’ll not criticise yours”. There is really no alliance radical feminists can have with men (neither left or right, trans, het, gay or unicorn) as men are only interested in what benefits men. They couldn’t give a damn about women, never have, never will.

    @soporificat- “We also know that internalised misogyny means that all people at all times have the urge to locate the man in any group & direct resources to him, rather than to any woman.” This is true of men & het women, but its certainly not true of most lesbians, i don’t have any “urge” to direct resources to men & haven’t done since i was 13. Lesbians love & value women, my resources go to other women, not men! So lets name it correctly men & het women have this “urge”. Internalised misogyny, like internalised homophobia & internalised racism can take many forms & doesn’t just mean directing resources towards men. It may be painful for het women to realise how much men hate women, its also painful for lesbians to realise how much het women hate women. Sorry Gallus, I understand if you dont publish this. It just pisses me off no end when they try & push the idea that ALL women (including lesbians) worship & idolise men like het women do. Its a total erasure of those of us who do actually prioritise women.

    Het women will defend/support men, especially men who they perceive as having a harder time than other men. Which is why they jump to support gay men (but don’t support other women, much less lesbians) & yes they see trans as being a form of gay men. Many women say in comments on articles about Jenner that they don’t understand why he transed, as he is not gay. It is very important to tell them about autogynephiliacs. I showed a middle aged married friend this video, she was appalled, she also laughed at the chromosomes argument. She said if she saw a guy like this in a toilet or changing room she’d “kick him in the balls (if he still has erm)”. A younger girl I was talking to said she could tell the difference between a gay trans & a auto, she said she had a “odd creepy feeling” while serving the autos (she works in a womans clothing shop). When het men hear about the autos they usually say they will beat them up, if their wife, daughter, ect are subject to sharing spaces with these men. So i’d say its vital to talk about the autos.

    It is still important to also state that the whole trans thing is a conversion therapy for lesbians & gays, otherwise we could end up with the autos being banned from transing, but still be left with the lesbian/gay conversion aspect. I personally think this is one of the main reasons these autos are allowed to “trans” under the “gender dysphoria” diagnosis, as it somewhat disguises the real intent of GD being added to the DSM in the first place. If they removed autos (& het women) from being diagnosed with GD then it would be more obvious that it is just a conversion therapy for gays & lesbians.

    • kesher Says:

      I don’t think you’d be able to prevent autos from transitioning. Legally, sure; medically and “socially”, no. Ultimately, if you have the money, you can find a doctor willing to do just about anything to your body other than taking the life from it.

      I’d argue that it’s vital to remove health insurance and government funding for what’s essentially a fetish, but the autos have been lying about their reasons for transitioning for years. It’s not hard to “fake” GID since it’s not based on reality.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Autos are straight white men active in politics, finance, military and media/IT. Most of them are still operating from the closet. They ARE “the establishment”. You won’t be preventing them from doing anything.

      • Julianna D Says:

        Gallus, yes yes yes. They are the establishment. This is not some weird accident that the media suddenly jumped on. It is on purpose! I never got over the military-man angle.

        None of this makes sense until you look at it through the lens of some sort of psy-op. (On whom? I think we can guess!)

    • soporificat Says:

      @Resistance — Although I wish that I could agree that being lesbian means the internalized misogyny that we were are ALL socialized into has been fully erased, that is not what I have observed. In fact, on this very blog there have been posts about prominent lesbians publicly prioritizing MtT over women’s needs.

      In my own irl experiences I have seen lesbians behave in a way that is both sexist and misogynistic. My daughter (who is a lesbian, btw) has seen other lesbians on her college campus prioritize MtT over women. What I mean by that is that these lesbians bullied and demeaned other women to pave the way for the MtT. They weren’t alone in this, but they were an essential part of the gang. They gave legitimacy.

      She has also been frustrated by seeing lesbians give more respect to “masculine-looking” women over “feminine-looking” women. These women are automatically given more social and political capital on her college campus–by other lesbians. That is the same dynamic as “where is the man in the room, so I can pay attention to him?” You can dress it up however you like, maybe add some tattoos and some fancy pomo language, but it’s just good old-fashioned sexism.

      As for the idea that only heterosexual women hate women? Not only have many of my daughter’s butch friends been encouraged to transition–BY OTHER LESBIANS, but a lesbian friend of hers did transition and now her attitude towards women can be summed up very accurately to “Bitches! Amirite?!! Hur, hur!” Lesbians loving and respecting women? Some do, and some really don’t. Some lesbians would throw other women under the bus in a hot second, and these women aren’t outliers.

      Clearly, being sexually attracted to women doesn’t automatically mean that you like them or respect them, even if you yourself are a woman. In fact, it would be an absolute miracle if it did mean that! How would that even work? One day you notice that you are sexually attracted to only women, and then all your socialization magically dissolves? Of course not. You have to work at it, and some are more successful at this than others. The only thing that being a lesbian gets you in this scenario is that it it much harder to avoid that hard work. As a heterosexual woman it is easier to avoid the issue and think you can get away with it–at least in the short term–it never works in the long term. And so, some of the great feminists have also been lesbians. However, being a lesbian doesn’t necessarily mean you are even a feminist at all, much less a careful and enlightened one.

      Lesbians are human, after all, and humans in modern US society are sexist. All of us. Every single one. Having said that, I’m more likely to trust a woman over a man, and I’m more likely to trust a lesbian over a heterosexual woman. But, that doesn’t mean that I will automatically trust a lesbian, either.

      We are talking about rooting out an intensive socialization process that begins from the moment of birth. There really is no escaping it. All you can do is understand it and then start working to erase it. It is my observation that this process is tricky and deceptive, and that the people who think they aren’t sexist at all are just fooling themselves.

      Think of the greatest, most perfect feminist that you know (I’m thinking of my feminist hero right now. She was a genius), and then realize that even she still had vestiges of sexism to root out, even at the height of her powers. In fact, I would bet that one of the things that makes her so brilliant is that she probably understands this and challenges it within herself, and never lets it slide. It’s my belief that this is a lifelong process.

      • Resistance Says:

        Soporificat- There are many reasons some lesbians will support mtf. Some will do it from internalised misogyny. Some will as they think they are in an alliance with them due to gbltcrap. Some will do it for monetary gain. Others do it as they fear being called a bigot. Some will do it as they fear being excluded from their group of friends if they don’t. Some will do it out of piety for them (as mtf are very manipulative & feed off their empathy). I don’t agree with any of them, but still there are many reasons why they may support them. I don’t see how some lesbians supporting mtf proves ALL women prioritise men at all times.

        Transing is the new “in” thing with some kids. The same as the vampire craze that was in with goths, kids used to cut each other & drink their blood, sum even filed their teeth to look like fangs, then there was the piercing craze. For some this is just the same sort of “identity” crap & whoever goes the furthest is the coolest. Others trans for different reasons, rather than to just be part of the popular crowd or peer pressure.

        Lesbians growing up are surrounded by het women who romanticize & worship males & so some young lesbians begin to think “the only way women can love me is if i become like the males these women worship”. I have read posts by young isolated lesbians who want to trans saying this very thing: That they want het women to love them. Others have been pressured into transing by their “feminine” partner (who often is bi), other lesbians (whose families have rejected them for being lesbian) feel their families may accept them again if they trans. Some claim after they trans they had never been lesbian at all. There are some lesbians who trans who date other women who trans, but again they are escaping the lesbian label, a gay male identity is more socially acceptable. Even lesbians who don’t trans call themselves “gender queer” or “queer” now, as opposed to lesbian.

        The root cause of transing in lesbian women in my view is mostly down to societal & internalised lesbian hatred first & foremost. It is the same reason many lesbians have depression, anxiety & substance abuse problems. Transing for many of these women is like the new drugs & alcohol. Many who trans have been sexually abused, this also contributes in no small part. It’s not necessarily down to a hatred of women.

        There are some lesbians that say lesbianism is just about sex. Thats cus in liberal circles its more acceptable to admit to feeling sexual attraction than it is to love & affection (as love & affection are considered inferior). This is down to the male model of sexuality being just about sex, cus for males it is. We are accused of being immature if we talk of our love for women. So most will just talk about the sex aspect, we are then accused of being just like men. Lesbians are not men our sexuality doesn’t come from the same place mens does. Our sexuality comes from a love of women & a desire to be close & intimate with women. It does not come from getting off on women’s submission & male dominance. We just have not internalised the sexual power dynamics that het relationships are based on. Both our love feelings & our sex feelings are in alignment, we haven’t split our love needs from our sex needs, like het women have to.

      • Resistance Says:

        @Soporificat- cont) Not all lesbians are feminists, but lesbian women have chosen (even tho they may not consciously realise its a choice) to refuse to love & prioritise men in the personal sphere. This alone is an act of defiance against patriarchy. Just as women dressing in non sex role appropriate clothes is. Maybe u think u were born het & “fem”? This is not the radical feminist belief.

        Internalised homophobia is very hard for a lesbian to overcome, this is not about hating women, this is about being made to feel ashamed of your love for women. Which is why u’ll hear some lesbians complain that her partner says “i love you, but i hate myself for loving you” & so on. The other element is the belief that if you love women a part of you is somehow “masculine” (this is especially true of lesbians who don’t dress in sex role appropriate clothes or who are more assertive ect), as this is what we are constantly told. It took me until i was in my 20’s before i fully realised just how illogical that belief is. It is these things that most lesbians have to work on. Not usually a hatred of women. (It’s ironic really as men don’t love women at all, they hate them & get off on their submission & humiliation. We are as different from men as night & day.)

        I personally couldn’t care less about men, really couldn’t give a toss about them. I do not romanticize them, so don’t love them, i have not eroticized the power dynamics so don’t feel sexually attracted to them. I think they are pathetic really, they have to think of women as inferior in order to think of themselves as superior. I find this weak & pathetic. I have no desire to seek out men in a room or anywhere else, just do not have that desire. I don’t really think about men that much at all. They are just not my priority, i think about them only in terms of harms they do to women. I’ve never hated women, i may have paid less attention to them for about a year (when i attempted to be het), but i’ve never hated them. I think all girls love females until they surrender to het conditioning. To enjoy sleeping with males you have to eroticize male dominance & female submission, to “love” them you have to romanticize them & think of them as superior. Lesbians don’t do either of those things, we love women, hence we are lesbians. This is why the great RF are usually lesbians.

        There really is stark differences between the way most lesbians think & how het women think. Internalised misogyny & internalised homophobia may present similarly, but there are very important differences. One comes from feeling ashamed of yourself for being a woman & the other comes from feeling ashamed of yourself for actually loving women. Het women just feel the former, so they go on to hate all women. For lesbians it is not the same & is far more complex. Even when i was a young kid & thought i should of been born a boy (relatives actually told me this, so not surprising I believed it for a while), i never hated other females.

        @Gallus- I’m sorry about the length & i know its off topic. I completely understand if you choose not to publish it. I don’t want to clutter up up blog, i just think some het women don’t understand lesbians at all.

  70. Susan Nunes Says:

    Merkley introduces federal protections for LGBT:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2015/07/jeff_merkley_introduces_sweepi.html

    LGBs, okay, but there is a real problem with trans, as we know. Merkley hasn’t thought this issue through. Women’s rights and trans “rights” can’t really co-exist if you take the trans movement as a whole. I really see the end of Title VII and Title IX if trans have rights to infiltrate women’s sports and women’s spaces.

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      I doubt you’ll find any real feminists in Congress. I may be straight, but RadFems inform my feminism.

      Of course, if you’re an autogynephile, you’re more likely to be elected than an out Lesbian who truly supports women and understands what real feminists demand.

  71. river Says:

    The misinformed are not an ethnic minority being oppressed.

    http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-7611752

  72. verykoolkay Says:

    The Los Angeles Times has picked up this story, cheering on Tur while calling Shapiro the bully, but the comments are generally going the other way.

    You go, girl: Zoey Tur gets aggressive with a bully from Breitbart News
    http://www.latimes.com/local/abcarian/la-me-ra-transgender-zoey-tur-20150724-column.html#page=1

    • Radical Grandma Says:

      Disgusting that a natal woman would take the side of someone who actually hates her guts and would question her own woman’s authority.

      Tur is a fucking Nazi curb-stomper and Abcarian allows it.

  73. river Says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jan/28/dick-swaab-sex-brain-theories-men-women-sexuality-womb

    In the comments: “Swaab is controversial. He did illegal brain research without permission on dead gay men a few decades ago. It was all over the news here.”

  74. endthewoo Says:

    Not sure if this is entirely on topic, but there’s a good interview with Julie Bindel here on no-platforming, trans violence etc

  75. ElleDriver Says:

    OT, but a judge has dismissed FTT Gavin Grimm’s claims to Title IX protection under Grimm’s lawsuit to use the boys’ bathroom.

    buzzfeed.com

    • GallusMag Says:

      Wow. Judge says title IX protections are based on sex, not conformity to sex role stereotypes. Thanks for posting this!

    • branjor Says:

      Oh wow. But boys have been getting the right to use girls’ bathrooms, have they not?

      • Siobhan Says:

        Interestingly, the Pennsylvania case which this judge cited was also a female (in that case a college student) who wanted to use the men’s toilets, showers and locker room.

      • mochi Says:

        That young woman needs help. Letting her shower with males is absolutely hateful and irresponsible way to handle this obviously delusional and probably suffering young person. To subject her to that kind of violence…. idiotic

  76. CisWomanPrivilege Says:

    Speaking of hulking monsters…

    http://www.hngn.com/articles/113225/20150727/elite-bodybuilder-matt-kroc-kroczaleski-transitions-to-janae-marie-kroc.htm

    His description as seen on instagram:

    “Transgender/genderfluid Alpha male/girly girl Lesbian in a male body”

    To think these are the same guys who cry cotton ceiling and are fighting (more like harassing and threatening with violence) for their “rights” to use the women’s bathroom.

  77. WTF Is This Nonsense? Says:

    I remembered a good anthem for Tur and pretendbians like him.

    Scatterbrain – Don’t Call Me Dude

    Here’s my story, sad but true
    About a girl that I once knew.
    She broke my heart, I became unglued,
    It all started when she called me dude

    Well today I leave the psycho ward
    Cause my sentence did conclude:
    I had killed a man with my bare hands
    Because he called me dude…

    …I heard the word dude & I became unglued.
    Slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch
    And put my hands around his neck, and I squeezed…

    DON’T CALL ME DUDE!

    So that’s how I got where I am
    But this ain’t where it ends.
    The doctors said they cured me
    I said good bye to my crazy friends.

    I was smiling as i left that place
    My life had been renewed.
    The guard at the gate, he stamped my pass
    And he said, “Yo Later Dude!”…

  78. GallusMag Says:

    Transgender Talent
    July 28 at 9:09pm ·
    PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE ANNOUNCEMENT BEFORE RESPONDING. We are officially announcing an upcoming taping of the Dr. Drew Show, on Thursday, August 13th, starting at around 5:30pm at CNN studios in Los Angeles. The main guest will be Dr. Marci Bowers, M.D., and the entire audience will be transgender people! The show topic will be the Zoe Tur/Ben Shapiro incident, and neither of them will be present. There will be no controversial guest on the show – no need for that, as this issue is controversial enough as it is just among the transgender community. This was the only time two guests ever were so heated in their disagreement in the history of the Dr. Drew Show, and it went viral, so please review and be familiar with the segment before appearing on then show. This is your chance to hear from Dr. Drew in person about his thoughts on it and feelings about it, and share yours with him if you are so inclined. Ann has been working directly with the Executive Producer of the show, Burt Dubrow, and the Senior Editorial Producer of the show, Bill Hinkle, via emails, text messages, phone calls and in person to make sure we as a community are understood and respected on this show. Ann has found them to be very willing to work with us at every level to make sure this is a great show, with spirited conversation about this very controversial topic. Burt and Bill have taken substantial time out of their busy schedules to learn directly from Ann and other prominent leaders from our community about the diversity within our own community and what we face daily. Ann will be present on set for the shoot. Transgender Talent will be handling the audience reservations for the show. To request a reservation to be in the audience, please email audience@transgendertalent.com and include your name, phone number and email address. IMPORTANT: You must identify as transgender to be in the audience! You will receive confirmation of your reservation by email including details about being on the show. This is the only way reservations may be made – not by posting on Facebook, or messaging on Facebook, or text messaging one of us at Transgender Talent.

    • nonny Says:

      A whole audience of cheerleaders to excuse male violence because of male feelings. (No call for audience members who’ve been threatened or assaulted by unhinged fetishists with a history of violent behavior. Why not?? Oh wait, I know why….)

    • joeybrite Says:

      Do you know who this ‘Ann’ is that is being referred to here please?

    • Ashland Avenue Says:

      That guy “Ann” – ha. He looks like an elderly uncle of mine, except for the long stringy gray hair. And yeah, I’m sure it’ll just be a whole lot of trannies whining about how hard they have it so they’re completely justified in using force. SSDD.

    • petuniacat00 Says:

      What in the living fuck?! A whole specially selected audience of a particular minority group? These trans activists have some kind of weird PR whammy. And this will be one of the things that we point to when the cat comes out of the bag and “trans” is exposed as the nonpolitical mess that it is. Not a movement just a PR offensive run by fetishists lying about who they are. And oh yeah the gender nonconforming young adults and children who were swept up in the fetishists’ cyclone of creepiness.

      When I think about the autogynephiles I now always think of a quote from a naeferty post, “semen encrusted socks”. That an autogynephile’s wife found in plastic bags under the computer table. 😖

    • Susan Nunes Says:

      Then by God, Dr. Drew should be pressured to have as his guests Sheila Jeffreys and Janice Raymond, without any audience present and no idiots on the panel, to talk about how destructive transgenderism is to women’s rights for the entire hour.

      Fair is fair.

    • Akira Says:

      Nice to know that all you have to do is “identify” as transgender to attend. You can identify as anything you want! I mean, if I could “identify” as a woman and enter Michfest, then I can just as easily “identify” as trans and get into the audience! See how great it is when there’s no science or medical history involved in anything?

  79. Spinster Says:

    “Shapiro had offended Tur by commenting that “transwomen” are chromosomally male. Tur responded that chromosomes were irrelevant to genetic sex, because of people with Kleinfelter’s syndrome.”

    Klinefelter syndrome is quite rare in the United States (and probably worldwide) – only 20,000 to 200,000 U.S. cases per year. Therefore, trying to make an exception, the rule, won’t work. As a matter-of-fact, in general, an exception is NOT the rule and people need to stop always trying to make rules out of exceptions. This is NOT a common syndrome, so whoever this is really needs to knock it off.

    • Siobhan Says:

      Not to mention that people with Klinefelter’s syndrome are also chromosomally and physically male. They may have abnormalities (smaller penis, sometimes undescended testicles) and infertility, but these XXY males are male and they do have external male genitalia. I really do not understand why the transgenderists are so obsessed with Klinefelters as it does not make their point at all.

  80. cobston Says:

    I can’t see this link anywhere here so…Zoey being nasty and body shaming someone in a comment section.

    James Thweatt · Conway, Arkansas
    Zoey, I don’t consider you much of a journalist and your insistence in defining other people rather than how they define themselves is counterintuitive.
    Like · Reply · 12 · Mar 24, 2015 10:26am

    Hanna Zoey Tur · Guest Host at The Official KFI AM 640
    James Thweatt I can tell a great deal from social media, like you could use a diet. Come join me as I work to lose weight for my first bikini summer! Step away from the donuts!
    Like · Reply · 1 · Mar 24, 2015 10:29am

    Alexis Paige · Eastern Washington University
    Zoey what the hell!?! How dare you go around body shaming people like that! How bout you focus on the content of James’ post. I guess the problem is you can’t defend your insistence on defining other people against your wishes. Big surprise there. Further you’re trans, how can you go around doing that while at the same time expecting people to respect your identity? Lastly James Thweatt, don’t listen to Zoey, you’re fabulous the way you are
    Like · Reply · 14 · Mar 24, 2015 2:23pm

    http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/03/19/trans-reporter-zoey-tur-hot-water-over-remarks-trans-bodies-rights

  81. prozac Says:

    I know this thread is old, but I have to recommend watching the video of Ben Shapiro’s take on this incident. It is hilarious! It’s about half an hour long and you can find it on YouTube easily.
    “You’re a little man. Yes, and you are a large man. Who thinks he’s a woman. So what?”


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