Manhood Has Limits For Transmen Who Prefer Women’s Facilities

June 30, 2016

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Something that’s been lost (and by lost I mean ignored) in the Great Transgender Bathroom Debate of 2016 is the number of women who “identify as male” but balk at subjecting themselves to the risk of sexual assault and violence involved in using male facilities where they are vulnerable as female-bodied-persons disrobing in proximity to actual men. You know, men, those individuals with penises: the kind single-handedly responsible for perpetrating nearly all crimes of rape, sadism, and bloody mayhem in every human society in recorded history since the beginning of time. Those guys.

Passing as male may be swell when it comes to walking home at night, improving your queer dating pool bonafides and saving money on haircuts but when it comes to pulling your pants down around strange men, not so much.

North Carolina’s HB2 which legally regulates single-sex facilities may drive a stake in the fantasy heart of men who wish to use women’s facilities as validation of their gender feels and to avoid other dudes side-eying them over their wardrobe choices, breast implants and bad wigs, but to some FEMALE transgenders – women who “identify as male”- it’s a bit of saving grace.

Unlike the high profile “transmale” bathroom hoaxers who apparently felt forced to fabricate mensroom hate crimes to save face around their desire to continue using female restrooms, women like male-identified North Carolina resident Charlie Comaro seem quietly relieved by the legal mandate to use facilities based on sex, not gender.

“It’s literally against the law for me to use the men’s room, and it’s also risky. Even though I’m more than a year on testosterone—I’m getting facial hair, my hair has receded a little—I still don’t always pass as male,” she reports to MotherJones.com

Heterosexual female Sawyer DeVuyst, who “identifes as” a gay man and produces a transgender selfie blog project documenting her body hair growth on testosterone describes the discomfort of changing tampons in the men’s restroom to Mic.com:

“You’re in a men’s room and somebody hears you rustling a paper in the stall because you’re changing a tampon — that outs you,” she relays. 

Sawyer has signed on as a model for the BoyShort model of SheThinx menstruation underwear, which function as washable blood diapers for women.

“They say, like, “stars, they’re just like us!” but also, trans people, they’re just like us,” Sawyer helpfully informs fellow bleeders on their website. 

For every widely promoted media story featuring hormonal moon-faced women with Amish beards who demand a spot at the table of men, there’s an equal undercurrent of male-identified females like UK food blogger Jack Munroe whose medical transformation away from womanhood is defined by harm reduction from male abuse: “The aim is to be able “to pass for a young man on public transport,” She explains succinctly.

The utter absence of female “transmen” garnering various Man of the Year Awards, Father of the Year Awards, and Sports Illustrated and Vanity Fair covers like their male sisters, and the failure of testosterone-injecting females to sweep any male sporting championship, ever, as transwomen do in female events with regularity, is duly noted. Sex matters, and women can’t identify their way out of –or into- the legacy of male violence and the eugenics resulting from generations of inbred ultraviolent male rapists.

Los Angeles Santee High School eliminated their second floor fifteen-stall female restroom, opening it up to males, after a male-identifying female student “transman” was humiliated by a janitor who momentarily “gendered” her as her “desired gender”. The student, Yasmin “Alonzo” Hernadez is a “transman” who “identifies as” male. According to the LATimes, she began demanding male pronouns and adopted a traditionally male name a year before, and wished to be perceived as male. As a result, a custodial worker accidentally perceived her as her desired gender and pointed out that she was entering the girl’s restroom. The janitor immediately corrected herself and apologized when she realized Alonzo was not actually male, but Alonzo was humiliated at having to explain that although “male” in identity she preferred female facilities due to the risk of harm to herself as a female person from actual males.

A High School Janitor Wouldn’t Let Him Use The Bathroom. So He Started a Movement” read the headline on Fusion.net.

“When he’s out of school and in public, he uses men’s restrooms. But at school—when he absolutely has to use a facility—he continues to use the girls’ restroom because he says he does not want to make anyone uncomfortable. He said he also was concerned about being harassed,” Fusion reports.

The female restroom was changed to a unisex facility to accomodate males. Male facilities remained unaffected and retained the same number of male restrooms.

 

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As a Transgender Man, Choosing Which Bathroom to Use Can Be Agony“, writes Jake Damien.

“I do not enjoy using men’s bathrooms.

As a transgender man, I am not supposed to admit this. I am supposed to proclaim that I finally “feel at home,” and that I will fight for my right to access them. And I will! But the truth is, I don’t feel safe in them—nor do I prefer them to women’s rooms.

The thing is, I never felt wrong in women’s bathrooms and locker rooms; I felt wrong in my own skin. Growing up, I remember so many instances of what medical gatekeepers call “gender dysphoria”—of feeling like I was trapped in a mismatched body. After a childhood of being the only little girl playing on all-boys soccer and baseball teams, in middle school, I was ripped away from my social and athletic communities and told I was no longer allowed to play with the guys. I can still feel the sadness and confusion of that loss.”

She goes on to suggest that, like Santee High, women should sacrifice hard won female single-sex facilities and open them to men, so that women like her can continue to use them while identifying as male:

“I use the men’s bathroom now mostly because I am perceived as a threat in the women’s room. But I’ve come to believe that a long-term solution is not to make transgender people choose between two gendered bathrooms, but to make all bathrooms gender neutral.”

She describes the danger she experiences as a woman in male facilities, an experience she hopes all women will opt into by forgoing, like herself, female single-sex facilities:

“Every time I enter a male locker room, I brace for what may be around the corner. Frequently, if men in the locker room see my body as I change or as walk into the showers, they follow me. In a few horrific cases, men have pulled back my shower curtain to “better see” me, or worse, pushed their genitals at me.

In these spaces, I seem to spark a unique and terrifying mix of sexual objectification and male-to-male aggressiveness. The men’s locker room is a place where I have accidentally, and unwillingly, become a Rorschach test of people’s sexuality, open-mindedness, and ideas on masculinity. And it’s not a fun place to be.”

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88 Responses to “Manhood Has Limits For Transmen Who Prefer Women’s Facilities”


  1. I agree with making bathrooms gender neutral.

    • sarineal Says:

      No, make the male toilets and change facilities gender neutral if anything must be done. Let males deal with the issue for a change.

      Otherwise, for quite some years there has amazingly been no issue as people managed to sort themselves out just fine, let the status quo remain. The special snowflakes can accommodate to the majority, not the majority accommodate them, particularly women and children already vulnerable to male violence.

    • rheapdx1 Says:

      Agreed as well. And it is not all that difficult to either add one of those to the plumbing system, or just make one that is not often used, gender neutral. In this way…a potential series of issues are mitigated.

      Oooops…just realized something. The above is a logical solution. That will not work with those of the Kool-aid brigade. Then again….logic and reason never do.

    • MaryMacha Says:

      Oh yeah, that would solve everything.

    • lr1290 Says:

      I don’t, personally. It’s not feasible and men already put cameras in single stall bathrooms. We need an area only women can access. The better solution would be the regular female/male bathrooms we have now plus a gender neutral single stall bathroom. But we also have to make sure they know that is the one they need to use. I had a coworker once who was MtT and to the left of where we worked was the regular bathrooms with a separate single stall, wheelchair accessible bathroom beside it. On top of that, across the hall was another single stall bathroom with the gender neutral symbol on it. Out of all those options, he still chose the women’s bathroom. It’s so clearly NOT about “just needing to pee” it’s about validating their identities at everyone else’s expense at best and at worst, women get attacked.

      • Bev Jo Says:

        Gender neutral means males have complete access to perv on and assult girls and women. And restrooms males use are disgusting.

    • Danny Says:

      Sorry but no, most people would rather not be around the opposite sex in the toilet…if you identify as trans whatever, just use the cubicle… whoever you are, go there, do what you came for and GTFO… anybody who spends extra long in a public toilet or draws attention to themselves is gonna end up in trouble for a number of reasons…

    • thefall Says:

      My memory is foggy but I think I’ve read about cases of establishments which provided only unisex bathrooms, maybe in Sweden or something like that, with the result of women avoiding them completely. Women fought for sex segregated bathrooms to enable their participation in public life.

  2. Gyrf Says:

    Do we know about rates of MtFs being attacked in men’s bathrooms vs FtMs? Just curious if anyone knows or if data exists.

    Great piece. I laughed out loud at “hormonal moon-faced women with Amish beards who demand a spot at the table of men”!

    • thefall Says:

      I was wondering if there has ever been a case of a transwoman being attacked in a male bathroom? I haven’t looked at this stuff in a while, but I remember last time I was up on it, there hadn’t been any such cases.


    • I’ve asked this for years.
      Show me the statistics of Male To Trans that have been accosted in the men’s room.
      THAT ARE NOT SELF REPORTED.
      I dare ya.
      I’ve searched high and low and found nothing,,,NOTHING.

  3. Ella Says:

    Jesus Christ the narcissism in the trans community never fails to amaze me. So this person is afraid to use the male facilities (rightfully so) so they’re solution is to open every other female up to the same potential abuse?! Sawyer says “trans people, they’re just like us”, I’m sorry but no they’re not. No male will ever have to worry about quietly opening a tampon in the bathroom.

    I’m sorry but facilities should be based on biological sex, period. The gay community needs to get as far away from this trans nonsense as possible because the backlash will be epic.

  4. hearthrising Says:

    Great article Gallus. This angle has been ignored elsewhere in the media, hasn’t it? Although I’m sure it’s discussed everyday irl. The article linked in Mother Jones is worth a read, just to see how MJ takes the same set of facts and draws the opposite conclusion. It seems from the MJ article, reading between the lines, that trans men are reluctant to be disloyal to the trans woman cause, even at the price of their safety and comfort. It seems to be a traumatic bond. Also, the trans man quoted in the MJ article was basically saying she preferred the risk of sexual assault in the men’s room to making others feel uncomfortable by her presence in the women’s! Women are socialized to think that way.

    • MaryMacha Says:

      “trans men are reluctant to be disloyal to the trans woman cause, even at the price of their safety and comfort”

      The transmen are convinced they have male privilege!

      • nonny Says:

        FOR REAL THOUGH! I witnessed the “logic” first hand and frequently, and it goes like this:

        – trans women (and “genderqueer” males) don’t have male privilege. They never have.
        – ….they’ve never benefited from it, even before they identified as women. Their identity is retroactive.
        – ….even if they don’t transition or pass.
        – ….even if they don’t even TRY, and are recognized 100% of the as male.
        – ….even as straight gender conforming males.
        Therefore,
        – Trans men (and genderqueer etc females) DO have male privilege.
        – ….even if they’re recognized 100% of the time as female.
        – ….even if they’re gender conforming women.
        Furthermore,
        – “Cis” women have privilege over trans women because they’re cis.
        – …..yes, even over those non-transitioning, straight, gender conforming males.
        And so:
        – Women, all of them, are privileged over any male who identifies as “other than male” at any time. Period.

        And trans men, as females socialized to cater to men while internalizing anger and self-loathing, repeat this bullshit. I will never forget when a non-passing sadistic misogynist transwoman mocked me for having “male tears” when I objected to his disgusting violent language toward other ftms. What a completely fucked, bizarre reversal.

      • Em Says:

        “trans men [women] are reluctant to be disloyal to the trans woman [men’s] cause, even at the price of their safety and comfort”

        Hmmm. This sounds vaguely familiar.

  5. Medi Says:

    Concern for not making girls in the girl’s room feel uncomfortable is something MALE to trans NEVER say, but born women say this…hmmm….. I liked the part about women’s sports vs. men’s sports and how male to trans win, the mother of the year, the woman of the year, the athletic contests… bonanza for men, women again get wiped out. This article is one of your best!!!

  6. Rosemary Says:

    “I don’t feel safe in male spaces, therefore women should lose their safe spaces”. – trans politics in a nutshell.

    Also, has anyone heard of a case where an incarcerated ftm has requested to be transferred to a male prison facility? I’ve been trying to research that, but haven’t come up with anything.

    • Double X Marks The Spot Says:

      In the Gender Critical subreddit, a user who works in a jail says she knows of a FTM who had to be moved from the male facility to the women’s for her safety. If she’d stayed at the male facility, she would have had to remain in segregation. That’s the only case with which I am familiar.

      Women commit crimes at much lower rates than men, so the number of FTMs involved in the criminal justice system is vanishingly small.

    • Lesbian Lurker Says:

      Yes. I just read this and think there have been a few other cases.

      She was sorted into a female facility and sued the Toronto police, forcing them to change their policies on how they handle transgender inmates. She claims her strap on is a body part and by taking it away it’s akin to removing a prosthetic limb from an amputee.


  7. “I use the men’s bathroom now mostly because I am perceived as a threat in the women’s room. But I’ve come to believe that a long-term solution is not to make transgender people choose between two gendered bathrooms, but to make all bathrooms gender neutral.”

    What do they mean whey they say, ”

    “But I’ve come to believe that a long-term solution is not to make transgender people choose between two gendered bathrooms, but to make all bathrooms gender neutral.”

    No, making all bathrooms gender neutral is not acceptable. Are they talking about bathrooms that are designed to accommodate several people, or a single use restroom used by one person?

    Making more single stall bathrooms with a sturdy lock and door that is suitable for one person is not a bad idea, but having only single stall bathroom isn’t always feasible. How can single stall restrooms that are used by one person accommodate enough people?

    Keep single sex facilities based on sex and anatomy, and have a few single stall gender neutral restrooms for anyone who wants to use them.

    It’s really idiotic because most FTMs never undergo “bottom surgery”. Their anatomy is still female anatomy. There is no reason they can’t use the women’s restroom. Access to bathrooms should be based on anatomy not gender identity.

    “@Gallus, She goes on to suggest that, like Santee High, women should sacrifice hard won female single-sex facilities and open them to men, so that women like her can continue to use them while identifying as male”

    These are selfish women who are willing to sell out their own sex. They understandably are frightening when using the men’s facilities. Most never undergo “bottom surgery”, and they have a uterus, vagina, and female genitalia. They know they are vulnerable as females when using male facilities. So, their solution is to make all restrooms gender neutral. This is not acceptable. What a bunch of selfish twits. These selfish women who call themselves “men” are selling out their own sex.

    • Trish Says:

      Most MtFs don’t have “bottom” surgery either.
      The whole bathroom thing is about letting people’s claims about “feeling” themselves opposite of their actual sex supersede the actual sex of people who don’t feel conflicted about the physical reality of their natural, physical sex.

      All the talk about trans people’s “real” selves is so ridiculous. If they are in any way unsure of their sex, they should look in their pants.

      As for “gender” – it’s a word stolen from grammar and misused to suggest that sex-related characteristics are mere whims that can be traded like baseball cards.

  8. CKDexterHaven Says:

    Maybe it will take ‘transmen’ being automatically sent to male prisons for people to see through this farce. They can’t have things both ways.

  9. nonny Says:

    Great piece. Whenever I read about this stuff (after, you know, having lived it- I’m a female, former ftm/~genderqueer~ who has detransitioned, for new readers)- I feel it reveals what the mainstream public *really* thinks of trans people. Whether they want to admit it or not- maybe not even to themselves!- the reason Joe and Jane Liberal lavish all the attention, concern, and consideration on transwomen is because on some level they KNOW they’re male, and deserve the greatest deference, consideration, and acquiescence- as usual. And women (ftms or ~~non-binary~~ females) get pushed to the side- as usual. As the ignorant assholes at the WSO press conference shouted, there are laws to protect women already, right? And who cares about icky unsexy “”masculine”” gross women who might be like, bearded lesbians? Fuckin eww, amirite? No news to regular readers, but I have to say it.

    Btw, The Stranger newspaper in Seattle hasn’t said SHIT about what happened at the Women Speak Out/i-1515 press conference, other than a. it happened and b. the crowd was angry. No mention of Haver (a sex abuse survivor) or Ben-Shalom (a prominent lesbian activist), or Gus (a former transactivist who spoke of detransition.) Nothing. Nothing. None of their stories or concerns. And The Stranger is usually the paper who says the inflammatory antagonistic stuff others wont. Fucking cowards. They repeat the fiction that there isn’t a single case of a trans person attacking a “cis” person in a bathroom, then dare to name drop the Orlando/Pulse shooting- implying that if you’re critical of possibly straight male predators/fetishists in women’s rooms, you’re somehow contributing to the kind of homophobia that makes people commit homophobic mass murder. Keep kissing male ass and throwing women to the wolves.

    I need a drink.

    • kesher Says:

      The Stranger is deep in the cult. That paper has allowed some extraordinarily racist, sexist, and homophobic comments on its website for years, even comments attacking Dan Savage and his family personally.

      But a few years ago they had an all trans issue for Pride, and every single less than worshipful comment was deleted. Normally when a comment is deleted for being overly inflammatory, the space would be left in place, but the text would be nixed, with an explanation for why it was deleted. That wasn’t good enough for the MTFs though. Even just mildly snarky comments were disappeared as though they never existed. That was the beginning of the end for me. I don’t read The Stranger anymore.

    • prozac Says:

      Assuming you read this piece (of shit)
      http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/06/15/24216937/resigned-aclu-director-is-coming-to-tacoma-on-thursday-to-support-anti-trans-ballot-measure

      I recognize it’s an “announcement” from before the event but it probably made a significant impact on the level of discourse, come to think of it… so it’s totally unsurprising that after printing an article like this they wouldn’t report on how completely unreasonable the audience was, given they personally fanned the flames by framing the conference as blatantly anti trans and failing to give any insight as to what the purpose of the discussion was. As you pointed out, no one gives a shit about women and children if it might inconvenience a male who thinks any sort of criteria = gatekeeping and endless, assigned male style oppression. When women’s safety = male oppression I find myself mighty suspicious of those males. My apologies for going a bit OT.

    • Medi Says:

      Hey Nonny, thanks for the post. Yup liberals fawn all over those men, but I have yet to have boat loads of liberals make a big deal about how heroic and brave butch dykes are, or how great it is when women refuse to obey male rules, not a peep. They just HATE on us every chance they get. Possibly one reason some women might go the trans route because they don’t know you don’t have to conform to femininity dictates at all as a butch lesbian. So many young women I’ve met into the genderqueer mess seem to have never heard of butch women globally, the fact that we’ve always been out there, the fact we are completely erased from all media.

      Not surprised of zero coverage of the press conference in Seattle, because those women really threatened the hell out of the trans narrative, i.e. the male supremacy anti-feminist party line.

      Yup, I need a drink too— good idea it’s almost the long weekend, toasting you with a good glass of red wine!

      • nonny Says:

        @Medi- Amen. Sigh

      • prozac Says:

        Replying to Gallus re: that article you linked.

        Found this in the comments via Mr. Perduta

        Angelica Perduta Christchurch, New Zealand
        “IMHO there is not enough evidecnce to suggest male people would be assaulting women and children in bathrooms anymore than elsewhere. Being transgender has nothing to do with sexuality.

        I think it would be sufficiuent for qualified professionals to confirm we are genuine transwomen and not a sexual predator that would fail such a test. Personally I think they should also test cisgender lesbians in the same away as they have the highest percentage of sexual offenders of any demographic.”

        I think he meant to say trans lesbians? Said it before, I’ll say it again: I’d be more comfortable changing in front of 1000 lesbians than one male, regardless of their subjective identity.

      • againstvaw Says:

        The comments on the article Gallus linked to about the press conference has the usual allegation about Christian perverts obsessing about other people’s junk. Their obsession with showing their junk to unwilling women is an old and widely recognised perversion but no-one is supposed to mention it.

        They seem to think that if they repeat the lie about lesbians being more sexually predatory than men, it will be believed.

      • Livvie Says:

        If anyone wants a bit of a laugh, give dear old Angelica a google. He is out of his tiny little mind. Also a deadbeat father.

      • juno Says:

        I’m supposed to be afraid of lesbians? I never got that. I have never felt uncomfortable undressing in a room with lesbians.
        Something to do with peen and body strength and appreciation vs judgement of the female form; besides lesbians have better sense than men.

  10. Imelda_66 Says:

    Fabulous piece. You can really write.

  11. Elle Says:

    “Access to bathrooms should be based on anatomy not gender identity.”

    Thank you for this elegant, concise summation, Skylark! I will be using it often.

    I think your choice of the word “anatomy” is a good one. It seems more instructive than the word “sex” when it comes to this issue. Male anatomy can rape and impregnate female anatomy, period.

    • Trish Says:

      I have to wonder if the recent MtT demands for laws forcing society to accept their use of women’s rooms – and the accompanying claims about this being needed to “validate” their identities – has anything to do with knowing on some level that they’re not “passing”. If MtTs didn’t look like men in drag, no one would notice them using the women’s room, ergo, no need for laws to prevent people from telling them to get out of the women’s room.

      • LC Says:

        I think that’s exactly what it’s about. If they passed, it would be a non-issue. No one’s going to stop a person who looks female from using the women’s restroom, and vice versa.

  12. Double X Marks The Spot Says:

    I found this quote particularly telling:

    “The thing is, I never felt wrong in women’s bathrooms and locker rooms; I felt wrong in my own skin. Growing up, I remember so many instances of what medical gatekeepers call “gender dysphoria”—of feeling like I was trapped in a mismatched body. After a childhood of being the only little girl playing on all-boys soccer and baseball teams, in middle school, I was ripped away from my social and athletic communities and told I was no longer allowed to play with the guys. I can still feel the sadness and confusion of that loss.”

    This resonates with me on a personal level, as I was one of those girls who played with boys, and then we hit adolescence, and the boys wouldn’t be friends with me anymore, and I was friendless for a couple of years through the early teens before I met a couple of girls who also liked sports and climbing trees and suchlike. One of these friends came out as a lesbian in her twenties (as did most gays and lesbians in the 80s, as I recall).

    But also that woman’s observations point to the primary difference between many MTFs and FTMs. Fetishes are much more rare in women so FTMs aren’t all desperate to get into the mens’ room as an affirmation of their “masculinity.” They are just trying to feel more comfortable in a world where relentless gender policing makes them feel wrong and bad. I like your use of “harm reduction” to describe this phenomenon; I never thought of it like that before, and it is particularly apt. This is one of my favourite posts of yours, Gallus.

    The lust-driven aspect of MTFs also helps explain their irrationality, the fanatical, foam-flecked rage at any hint of opposition.

    • Michelle Says:

      You hit the nail on the head: no one wants to use the men’s room – but the FTTs aren’t primarily living a sexual fetish and the MTTs are and that’s why it’s so vital to the males who “identify” as women. Forcing their personal sexual fetish on unwilling females is part and parcel of the fetish itself. Also “lust driven” is a good descriptive of the MTT narcissistic rage!

      • GallusMag Says:

        Sorry to bother you but we have a long-time regular commenter also using the name Michelle. We also have a Michelle2! If you wouldn’t mind terribly, please select another name to post under in order to avoid confusion. Michelle3 is available!😛 Sorry for the bother and thank you!🙂

  13. mossy Says:

    I pass those period-underwear ads almost every day at the Union Square subway station- the ‘transman’ ones are so depressing; on one you see her mastectomy scars and on the other she’s wearing a ‘The Future is Female’ t-shirt? What the hell is that about? At least she knows she’s female I guess… (& I second the LOL at the ‘hormonal moon-faced women with Amish beards…’)

  14. Ginny Vogel Says:

    I am a middle aged straight woman and have been reading here for a couple of months. I feel like there is intelligent life in the Universe. Thank you Gallus and everyone. I recommend this site to others who are wandering around stunned right now. And to a few fools too.

  15. Trish Says:

    Why is it all the trans – whether MtT or FtT – want to use the women’s room? The MtTs (70-80% of which never have “bottom” surgery) want to use the women’s room to “validate” their adopted “gender”, while the FtTs (most of whom don’t have “bottom” surgery) seem to not care about using porcelain to “validate” their supposed maleness.

    The more I read/think about trans stuff, the less sense it makes.


    • The FtTs know they are women, while most of the MtTs are sexual fetishists who know they are men but who want the opportunity to exercise their masturbation fantasies in women’s spaces. Their goal is to legally force their masturbation kinks on women and girls. It isn’t hard to understand at all.

    • Em Says:

      Women (FtT) who want to use the women’s in are hoping to avoid rape. Men want to use the women’s are hoping to gather material for their urolagnia fantasies. There’s the political thing too, but I think that is secondary to perving.

  16. pollyhannah11 Says:

    The smirk? It already has a clinical term to describe it – I wonder why you never hear any psychiatrists mention this, in terms of trans, of treating trans patients?: Duper’s Delight.

    http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/lying/dupers_delight.htm

    • rheapdx1 Says:

      @pollyhannah11 Holy****. So this explains why there is ‘that look’ which seems to be more prevalent not just in pics, but in person as well.

      I was wondering why it seemed that, in addition to the very limited dialog when chatting face to face [as in about just the transition, the club scene, anime/video games, how well one ‘passed’ at an event…Kool-aid subjects] why the hell that smirk is there about every 30 seconds or so. Damn…could have avoided being around a lot of sh*t, if I and other folks were told this is part of what to look for …and be around more where that status is NOT front and center. Like a higher plane of chat, existence, etc.

    • Bob Doublin Says:

      Important information to know. Thank you pollyhannah11.

    • pollyhannah11 Says:

      I just find it so interesting that these two things converge…on the one hand, you have people online noting again and again, “the smirk” – and it turns out, mental health professionals, psychiatrists, they ALREADY have known about this for some time! I guess I mean, you have the anecdotal evidence, photos posted here and people noting “the smirk” – and now there’s empirical evidence – from the professionals – and an explanation! Also interestingly, I DON’T believe I’ve seen any (or maybe just a few) pics of FTTs smirking (have there been any here at GenderTrender, of FTTs smirking?) – it’s all MTTs. Because the motive for transition REALLY is different. Duper’s Delight – it sounds like a sandwich at a deli. I know GallsMag doesn’t have time, but I would be interested in the stats – how many photos over the years/comments about “the smirk” for MTTs, versus those for FTTs. That’s actually kind of empirical evidence right there. Yes, women can be data-driven, not just for the menz anymore.

      • rheapdx1 Says:

        From here, it is almost as though every other online pic has ‘the smirk’ built in. And up to this point, when it was on display, I would yell at the screen ‘THERE IS THAT STARE’. Like Norman Bates went to the makeup counter at Macy’s.

        While no one has done it yet, @pollyhannah11..it would be nice if someone, using a facial recognition algorithm…could correlate/crossreference the smirk and how many are not just admitted gender identity types, but also have mental illness, criminal records, have child abuse records, etc. Before someone says this is too mean, keep in mind (others here can confirm this has been done before in a statistical vein), this type of tracking has been done by race. In particular, how some local governments in the US decide to send more funds to the building of prisons, v new schools or other non criminal public services.

        It is a thought, considering there is this identifying marker, along with other sad indicators that have been mentioned by @GallusMag here, as well other sites (which are scary enough when one gets what is going on and good guides for wanting to maintain distance from the yrain wrecks)

  17. Bev Jo Says:

    This is just brilliant, Gallus Mag, and I also love your writing: “For every widely promoted media story featuring hormonal moon-faced women with Amish beards who demand a spot at the table of men…”

    These women so despise us that they want to be with their precious men, and then are surprised they are perved on and assaulted? That’s what men do. And that’s why we say no to men in dresses, etc.

  18. Mar Iguana Says:

    I saw this comment in response to a NYTimes article on the bathroom controversy, which seems to me to be a sensible solution (sorry, I didn’t copy the name of the article or who wrote the comment):

    “It’s all one big confusion. There’s no problem at all. Is it about Gender-identity? Great. Let people self-identify their Gender.

    “The solution to this discussion is very simple, and absolute. Since Sex is an Anatomical thing but Gender is a Cultural one – let’s just divide everything appropriately. If an issue in question has to do with Anatomy – bathrooms, sports, impregnating, child-bearing – go by Sex. If an issue is Cultural – family roles, romantic desires, social expectations, ideas of masculinity and femininity – go by Gender.

    “And then by all means let people use their Gender self-identity in the Cultural sphere as fully as they wish.

    “No problem. At all.”

  19. charlston Says:

    Hi and thank you for the this. I heard someone say the other day that it wouldn’t take much for these billionaire trans advocates and others to raise money to fund new loos etc if safety for all was their main objective.
    As for showering in a male area and having the shower curtain pulled aside or genitals pushed toward you? That is not because just because he is FTM, that’s just what a lot of men do to us, to each other. Its a male culture to be top dog as well which is one reason they don’t really get female bathrooms and what they mean to us.

    I didn’t get the new article memo and posted a link over here –
    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/05/18/another-fake-transgender-bathroom-fauxlebrity/#comment-71993

    I should have put it here. My apologies .

    Student activists demand sanitary bins be installed in male toilets for transgender men who menstruate

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3567616/Students-call-sanitary-bins-placed-male-toilets-transgender-men-periods.html

    • Mar Iguana Says:

      The billionaires know exactly what female bathrooms mean for women which is why they want to return to the days women were kept out of the public realm and confined to the home because there were no women’s restrooms until a little over a hundred years ago.

      The industrial revolution required the cheap labor of poor women in the new factories, then wealthy women also needed to be drawn out of the home to shop for all the stuff the factories were producing. So, restrooms for women became necessary.

      However, now that women have been so successful in the outside world, despite formidable obstacles every step of the way, the boys are pulling out all the stops to regain complete control over the female-bodied and eliminating woman-only spaces is crucial to returning women to the confines of the domestic sphere.

      Shopping at stores will take a hit, but women will no longer need to leave home for an extended period of time since they can now shop online and can still leave their homes just long enough to shop for groceries by going to the restroom before leaving home and/or wearing adult diapers. Besides, as Gloria Steinem pointed out decades ago, the bottom-line is not money; it is men.

      Welcome to the Republic of Gilead.

      • Ginny Vogel Says:

        There is a law professor at the University of Utah,Terry Stuart Kogan, who wrote an essay on women’s restrooms in a book called Toilet: Public Restrooms and the Politics of Sharing. He’s been interviewed all over the media stating that women’s restrooms are relics of the Victorian era. Our bogs are really part of the old “separate spheres” concept that was meant to segregate and control women. I think he is hinting broadly that women-only spaces are cramping our freedom. Open those doors and let the MEN in! His views have been published in major media. You can read the articles on his Biography page on his U of U profile. Kogan has spent many a year representing the trans community.

      • charlston Says:

        ‘Welcome to the Republic of Gilead.’ Aw hell! Thats a horrible thought. 🙂


      • Of course it has little to do with his perceived prudery of that era, which gives away his sexual degenerate bent, and everything to do with women’s participation in the public sphere. How is this liar allowed a public forum?

  20. Brent ark Says:

    Oh great, the two things I hate most, feminists and transphobes😄 you do know how deluded you sound right ? For starters, males are not “oppressors” , there is no logical evidence of “patriarchy” and anything you might find problematic is just product of basic biology , (i.e. Males being stronger, females being more nurturing.) Speaking of biology, by intentionally misgendering and debating the existence of a trans person who passes, looks, acts, and insists they’re the gender they weren’t assigned at birth with you do know you are literally saying “gender does not exist as there is only sex”. And therefor, by saying this you are implying pronouns do not exist , we are all asexual , and ruling classes is determined not by sociology , psychology, classism, or biology (which an existence of a patriarchy would follow) but only based upon genitalia. Surely, that seems irrational ? If gender does not exist and females and males are indistinguishable why a preference ? That , in itself , folds in on its own argument. Congrats ! As for this article itself, it adds nothing to the debate except for propaganda and the idea of “gender neutral bathrooms” which A) already exists, and B), I do agree with however, gender neutral bathrooms will not “protect” children as much as there own bathrooms will. If any post-surgery trans person feels unconftorble in the bathroom of there identity , then they’re probably not actually “transgender” to begin with. As for those before surgery it’s typical to be nervous, not because of a fucking “patriarchy” but simply because biology differentiates a cis and trans person. The way some people on this site regard males and trans people is completely repulsive, not every saint is a lesbian you know ;3

    • GallusMag Says:

      Your analysis is incoherent.

    • Mortadella Says:

      Wow, what was Brent drinking when he posted? The patriarchy isn’t real, y’all! Brent said so! Do not pay attention to the pay wage gap, women’s lack of reproductive privacy, all those crime reports in which women are raped, abused and assaulted by violent males, and women’s lack of representation in government – we made that all up! Alright, sarcasm off. Hey brent, stop gaslighting, ok? Your pomo bullshit is stinking up the joint. Also, your post makes me wonder if you had acid for dinner.

      • GallusMag Says:

        Sadly I suspect that Brent is a teenage female transtrender.

      • Mar Iguana Says:

        I don’t know what kind of substances Brent is abusing but I seriously doubt it includes LSD. Brent’s obviously limited mind could use a couple of guided trips through innerspace.

    • kesher Says:

      Someday you’ll learn, “Brent”, that pretending to be a man won’t change how other people perceive you or treat you.

  21. Medi Says:

    Didn’t I hear that Gallus was going to be canonized as a real lesbian saint? 🙂 Or, yes, all lesbians are saints waiting to be canonized LOL

  22. Ftmsarentsafe Says:

    Trans men don’t have bottom surgery because bottom surgery sucks for us. The powers that be would never let us have dicks that work, or even dicks that don’t without years of physical agony and multi stage surgeries. They get off on our pain and want us rapeable, just like they want anyone born without a schlong.

    We’re not stupid. We know what cis men are about. And we’d rather live as incognito as possible. Besides, testosterone is an anti depressant, helps build strength, and stops that awful bleeding. Getting all that nasty child-having junk shoveled out of us will eliminate cancer, as will having the udders removed. Unfortunately, because of natal male worship and rape culture, we are stuck with these awful vulnerable genitals and should not be housed with those with rapist genitals. There’s a difference between natal men and trans men…and the patriarchy will NEVER let us close that gap (no pun intended).

    • GallusMag Says:

      Word. Real talk.

    • keygirlus Says:

      The fact that patriarchy has led you to think of your woman’s body as inferior in no way means women’s bodies are ‘awful’ or ‘nasty’. Rants like this are further evidence that a society without strict gender roles doesn’t force people to alter themselves to live the life they want. Some Native American cultures have great examples.
      There is a great article that replaces sexual dismorphia with skin color. What would you feel about the issue if a POC decided they ‘identify’ as white?

    • chocolatepie Says:

      Wait, I thought this was satire. “That awful bleeding”? “Nasty child-having junk” and “udders”? Female bodies aren’t awful, junk, or nasty, and we don’t have “udders.” I’m sorry you don’t like the body you have, I truly am. I hope you can learn to love yourself.


  23. I was completely with FTMsarentsafe until she started calling human female breasts “udders”.

    “Getting all that nasty child-having junk shoveled out of us will eliminate cancer, as will having the udders removed.”

    “Unfortunately, because of natal male worship and rape culture, we are stuck with these awful vulnerable genitals and should not be housed with those with rapist genitals.”

    The rape culture is right, but female genitalia is not awful. It’s beautiful. I can understand her fear of being housed with males. FTMs should not be housed or incarcerated with males. MTFs (biological males) are being housed in women’s prisons and women’s homeless shelters.

    “There’s a difference between natal men and trans men…and the patriarchy will NEVER let us close that gap (no pun intended).”

    There is a reason that most of the leadership in LGBT and trans organizations are MTF (biological males). They trot out FTMs when it suits them, but they aren’t about to let them have any real power.

    • juno Says:

      I guess I don’t understand how referring to female parts as udders and junk is anything but internalized misogyny. Poster above may feel the lash of patriarchy and fear of rape, but the attitude is still that of one who hates women and their bodies. Is this supposed to be some sort of progress? The gap between men and transmen will never be closed, better to work on female solidarity rather than self hate.

  24. FeistyAmazon Says:

    Like this is MY problem, therefore ALL Females should open our facilities to bio males, because BOTH MTFS AND FTMS feel unsafe in male facilities?

    THE ANSWER are some single stall bathrooms that only 1 person can use at a time that are gender neutral, and female and male facilities for born females living as female and born males living as male. I would feel ENTIRELY UNSAFE in a mixed facility.

  25. Linx Says:

    Has anyone seen the transgender bathroom ad set to air on Fox during the Republican Convention? Sorry I cannot post a link but it is on Youtube and all over the news. It’s fascinating because at no time does the guy even pass as a woman. He is spotted right away by the manager of the business and redirected to the men’s room. The evil boys leering out the door mouth ‘queer’ at him and he tries to look, how can I put it, femininely distressed? Anyway, two handmaids come and rescue him and lead him to their space where he will be safe and possibly get his ass wiped by one of them. Ridiculous ad.

    • charlston Says:

      Its a very sad advert. Those creeps in the male loo are scary, especially the short one with attitude. He could use the ladies I suppose, if he felt female. I hope he doesn’t.

      • prozac Says:

        Haha, exactly. All those fellas need to do is say, but i am a woman too, and they can follow him into the ladies, maybe have a wank while they are in there. Plus I’m pretty sure dudes that hang out in the men’s bathroom do so in the stall and for homosexual reasons (I’m still laughing about that ftm who didn’t understand this)

      • ImNoCissie Says:

        Men who lurk in the men’s room and harass trans or any other people should be dealt with like other criminals. What’s that they keep telling us about pervs in the ladies room? Oh yeah, “That’s already illegal! Call the cops! They’ll be arrested!”

        These images keep telling us that WOMEN should accept any and all creeps, voyeurs and rapists into their private spaces but trans women? Oh my word! I clutch my pearls at the thought of the six foot two trannie getting a dirty look from the short swarthy guy.

  26. Jara Says:

    This article makes a very good point. How many trans men for example will be campaigning to be sent to mens prisons?

    Amazing how gender dysphoria suddenly disappears or seems less important in the light of physical threat of rape and violence.

    Im ok with trans men using the womens cos I feel their fear but don’t then ask me to pretend they’re a man or claim trans women with peens must use the womens cos they’re women. Sort out a neutral stall for those who feel uncomforable and stop lecturing women about having to give up their spaces.

    What I didn’t like about this article is that the tone is very biased and so I don’t think I could post it as evidence for those who are on the fence which is a shame because it has great quotes and points and shows up the absurdity if the situation.

  27. GallusMag Says:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/trevor-hayes/transness-is-not-a-threat_b_11200244.html

    “I am a trans guy. I’ve been living openly trans for a few years now, out to friends and some family. I don’t exactly “pass” — meaning I don’t look like a cisgender male, and I don’t exactly match cisgender standards in appearance, style or expression. I’m fairly androgynous. In public I have been called a mix of “sir”, “lady” and “miss.” Using the bathroom is a catalyst for anxiety. I’m too nervous to use the men’s restroom, out of fear for my safety and fear of an anxiety attack, and using the women’s restroom is uncomfortable, discouraging, awkward — like an ill fitting suit.

    At least going into the women’s restroom I kind of feel like I’m less likely to be harassed or harmed further in any way. And so far in my life, nothing has happened to me when in a women’s bathroom. I get weird, lingering glances sometimes, but not much else.

    However, the one time I did use a men’s restroom and someone else was present — a cisgender man — I was met with scrutiny. I was told I was in the wrong restroom, just by looking at me. He proceeded to scoff and explain where the women’s restroom was, while washing his hands.

    Every other time I’ve built up the courage inside to use a men’s restroom, thankfully there was literally no one else there, in any stall, at any urinal. Lucky every time. I had the comfort of using a restroom that I felt I belonged in, that matched my gender identity and expression, and I was alone.”


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